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| huats | morning | 09:37 |
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| aday | mpt: hey :) get back ok? | 13:00 |
| mpt | Hello hello | 13:00 |
| mpt | Hi aday | 13:00 |
| mpt | hi andreasn | 13:01 |
| andreasn | hi! | 13:01 |
| humphreybc | hey | 13:01 |
| thorwil | hi all! | 13:01 |
| aday | andreasn is here. a new recruit! | 13:01 |
| aday | hi all | 13:01 |
| andreasn | recruit? | 13:01 |
| andreasn | I am? | 13:02 |
| andreasn | :) | 13:02 |
| mpt | I invited andreasn | 13:02 |
| mpt | andreasn, are you on the mailing list? | 13:02 |
| mpt | hi humphreybc, hi thorwil | 13:02 |
| andreasn | uh, maybe | 13:02 |
| andreasn | I got a mail from ayatana-ux@lists.launchpad.net, so I think I am | 13:03 |
| * humphreybc is trying out jolicloud | 13:03 | |
| aday | shall we use mpt's mail as an agenda? | 13:04 |
| mpt | okie dokie | 13:05 |
| thorwil | "Starting new design projects. There are various small things in Ubuntu that we know need redesigning: for example, Appearance | 13:05 |
| thorwil | settings, display settings, the screenshot utility. How could we organize people to work together on these designs?" | 13:05 |
| humphreybc | hold a gun to their head and force them? | 13:06 |
| mpt | Places like the Ayatana mailing list have plenty of small ideas, but hardly any sustained efforts | 13:06 |
| humphreybc | hello ivanka :) | 13:06 |
| thorwil | first thing could be to have a list of those various things | 13:07 |
| aday | it would be great to have something like design hub for this | 13:07 |
| thorwil | be it on a wiki page, or tickets | 13:07 |
| thorwil | aday: that's what i have been saying. the problem is: who's gonna write that and set it up and maintain it? | 13:08 |
| aday | thorwil: it was in development, but it seems to have stalled :( | 13:08 |
| humphreybc | :( | 13:09 |
| mpt | After five years I'm automatically skeptical of any solution to any problem that involves Yet Another Web Site | 13:09 |
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| mpt | Are there ways we could reuse the communications methods we already have? | 13:10 |
| aday | mpt: i'm sure there are. we've been trying to use live.gnome.org/Design to do something like this | 13:10 |
| wers | hello | 13:10 |
| mpt | Maybe I could just post to ayatana@ and say "It would be cool if people had a go at redesigning these things" and see what happens :-) | 13:10 |
| mpt | hi wers | 13:10 |
| thorwil | mpt: like i said: for a list or projects and some minimal tracking: wiki page or LP tickets | 13:10 |
| wers | hi mpt aday thorwil | 13:10 |
| thorwil | hi wers | 13:10 |
| aday | wers: hi :) | 13:10 |
| mpt | humphreybc, how did that Weather Indicator get started? | 13:11 |
| andreasn | yeah, live.gnome.org/Design + bug reports seems to have been working pretty good so far | 13:11 |
| humphreybc | I think some people in #omg!ubuntu! decided to randomly start it | 13:11 |
| humphreybc | then they left the project | 13:11 |
| humphreybc | Ohso (our company) took over and it now has a developer working on it basically full time | 13:11 |
| humphreybc | so originally, bored people who saw a need? | 13:11 |
| vish | oh , whats up here! | 13:12 |
| vish | people in the meeting :D | 13:12 |
| andreasn | especially with the Designers and Developers columns, because that means someone is responsible | 13:12 |
| thorwil | vish: psst! don't ruin it! | 13:12 |
| mpt | hm | 13:13 |
| thorwil | mpt: if you'd just post to ayatana with a design task, how would you avoid a blown up "discussion"? | 13:13 |
| mpt | oh, there's little hope of avoiding that | 13:13 |
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| mpt | The question is could we get anything else as well. | 13:13 |
| mpt | Actually, the three examples I gave are all generic Gnome stuff, so they could go on live.gnome.org/Design | 13:14 |
| andreasn | well, a lot of the noise is drive by comments, right? | 13:14 |
| andreasn | for all sorts of things | 13:14 |
| mpt | yep | 13:14 |
| andreasn | assigning people to stuff and have them be responsible for that full time might work? | 13:15 |
| andreasn | so some kind of "commitment to fix something, or be silent" agenda maybe | 13:15 |
| aday | mpt: we're planning to have weekly gnome design office hours - that could be a good forum for this kind of discussion (for the gnome-specific stuff, at least) | 13:16 |
| humphreybc | I've noticed that a lot of people are willing to work, they just need direction. | 13:16 |
| thorwil | regarding responsibility, small package size and high chance of exacting implementation would help with motivation | 13:16 |
| mpt | aday, where would that be, and who's "we" in that context? | 13:16 |
| vish | mpt: aday's secret hideout , in #gnome-design ;) | 13:17 |
| mpt | ah | 13:17 |
| aday | mpt: 'we' - anybody who wants to participate :) | 13:17 |
| thorwil | note #gnome-design on gimpnet | 13:17 |
| vish | thorwil: iirc mpt knows but just forgets to login there since recently ;p | 13:18 |
| andreasn | and I think there are people like Thomas Wood who are interested in fixing the Appearance applet, as long as he gets some direction | 13:18 |
| andreasn | or, well, we'll see what happens to that one specifically | 13:19 |
| mpt | It's because "Add to Favorites" is completely broken in XChat, that's why | 13:19 |
| aday | mpt: you know about gnome-design on gitorious too? we're using sparkleshare to share mockups | 13:20 |
| mpt | I did not | 13:20 |
| thorwil | nah, the Network List is a master piece!! | 13:20 |
| mgunes | hi all, sorry to be late. I'll try to catch up with the remainder of the meeting. | 13:20 |
| aday | mpt: http://gitorious.org/gnome-design/gnome-design | 13:21 |
| andreasn | mpt, I keep forgetting channels as well. | 13:21 |
| mpt | I particularly love the tooltip that says "Channels to join, separated by commas, but not spaces!" | 13:21 |
| andreasn | mpt, :) | 13:21 |
| andreasn | oh, there is also a right click menu if you click the channel list, this is in xchat-gnome though | 13:22 |
| andreasn | ok, drifting off from topic a bit :) | 13:22 |
| vish | moving on... | 13:23 |
| humphreybc | you all should use pidgin | 13:23 |
| humphreybc | works like a charm | 13:23 |
| vish | mpt: there is one person , who i think would be interested in working on screenie | 13:23 |
| vish | what are the requirements? what language is preferred[i believe he is good in python]? | 13:24 |
| wers | vish, ooh. screenie is alive? | 13:24 |
| mpt | andreasn, Pongo is currently Python, right? | 13:24 |
| vish | wers: well , it was in mpt's agenda | 13:24 |
| thorwil | right, 3rd point. not 2nd! ;) | 13:24 |
| wers | vish, oh. the log isn't updated so I wasn't able to catch up | 13:25 |
| andreasn | mpt, yeah, and it's, hm, works in funny ways sometimes | 13:25 |
| andreasn | mpt, but I was surprised Jan actually found use for it | 13:25 |
| humphreybc | be back in a bit | 13:26 |
| mgunes | in case some of you haven't heard of it: ClutterSmith looks like it might be a useful tool for animated mockups, among other things. I have yet to get it to compile at this point though. | 13:26 |
| mpt | vish, so could you point him/her to the project page and suggest adding a graphical interface? | 13:26 |
| andreasn | cool! | 13:26 |
| andreasn | mpt, and let this person know that a rewrite is fully possible | 13:27 |
| andreasn | err... that was to vish | 13:27 |
| vish | mpt: sure , but i dont see a specs page , not sure where to point him to , and oddly i cant find the existing code o.0 | 13:28 |
| andreasn | hbons trick to "trow something horrible together so that others will fix it for you" probably works great for Pongo too :) | 13:28 |
| mpt | andreasn, is http://www.andreasn.se/blog/images/pongo.py the latest version? | 13:28 |
| vish | oh wait ! lp was just fooling me! found it | 13:28 |
| mpt | ok | 13:28 |
| andreasn | I think Jan might have done some fixes | 13:29 |
| andreasn | checking with him now | 13:29 |
| mpt | Who's Jan? | 13:29 |
| wers | Jan-Christoph | 13:29 |
| andreasn | Borchardt | 13:29 |
| mpt | ok, Charline is out at lunch, but I will ask her about how we should research personas | 13:29 |
| wers | we're pursuing the open usability lab. he's been playing with pongo | 13:29 |
| andreasn | the dude who is doing the testing on Shotwell | 13:29 |
| mpt | vish will see if he can find a Screenie contributor | 13:30 |
| andreasn | woohoo! | 13:30 |
| wers | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~inquata/pongo/pongo/annotate/head:/pongo.py | 13:30 |
| mpt | aaaaaand I will post about live.gnome.org/Design to ayatana@, unless aday would like to do that instead | 13:30 |
| aday | mpt: i'm happy for you to do it :) | 13:31 |
| mpt | humphreybc, do you think perhaps godbyk would be interested in writing a user testing script template? | 13:31 |
| mpt | aday, ok | 13:31 |
| andreasn | what is a user testing script? | 13:31 |
| aday | mpt: i've been adding some resources to the usability project that the ayatana crowd might be interested in, btw | 13:31 |
| vish | gah! @ayatana ml :/ | 13:32 |
| humphreybc | mpt: a user testing script template? | 13:32 |
| aday | mpt: http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/GettingStarted http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HeuristicEvaluation http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/DoingResearch | 13:32 |
| mpt | andreasn, the thing you read from when conducting a user test. Including such vital sentences as "We're testing the software, not you." | 13:32 |
| andreasn | ooh, I was thinking of a shell script :) | 13:32 |
| humphreybc | ah | 13:33 |
| humphreybc | I think godbyk could definitely do that | 13:33 |
| humphreybc | he might already have | 13:33 |
| humphreybc | one | 13:33 |
| mpt | neat | 13:33 |
| aday | mpt: http://live.gnome.org/Pongo/Tutorial i never finished it though :( | 13:33 |
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| mpt | Ok, I'm sorry I'm snowed under with other work today so I'll have to bow out now, but feel free to carry on without me. :-) | 13:34 |
| aday | actually, most of it's there | 13:34 |
| humphreybc | mpt: exciting work no doubt | 13:34 |
| aday | anything more to say about the testing stuff or shall we move on? | 13:36 |
| thorwil | maybe we could talk about the nice things we will do with our plenty of free time while mpt is snowed under now? | 13:36 |
| wers | Jan happens to be writing on the open usability lab Wave right now. You want me to tell him to join the meeting now? | 13:36 |
| aday | wers: i lost the link to that... | 13:36 |
| wers | aday, which one? | 13:37 |
| wers | I meant, he's currenly online and we're talking about the same project | 13:37 |
| aday | sorry, ignore me. yeah get him over here | 13:38 |
| aday | :) | 13:38 |
| mgunes | aday, was the UX advocates BoF at GUADEC recorded on video? | 13:39 |
| vish | aday: what's the latest about HIG update? | 13:40 |
| aday | mgunes: no, but i'm going to be sending a report to the usability list | 13:40 |
| vish | what is changing for HIG3 | 13:40 |
| aday | vish: same! oh, and i'll be firing off a blog post later today | 13:40 |
| vish | cool.. | 13:40 |
| mgunes | aday, alright, thanks! | 13:40 |
| andreasn | * HIG3 will be a pattern library | 13:40 |
| andreasn | * + some initial design principles | 13:41 |
| aday | mgunes: live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/UXAdvocates | 13:41 |
| mpt | I wrote http://live.gnome.org/action/edit/UsabilityProject/HIG3/HandlingErrors while at Guadec | 13:41 |
| andreasn | http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HIG3 | 13:41 |
| andreasn | more writers are needed! | 13:41 |
| aday | none of my patterns are finished yet! | 13:42 |
| aday | well, 'my' - i welcome contributions :) | 13:42 |
| andreasn | wasn't there an etherpad too somewhere? | 13:42 |
| aday | andreasn: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ui-patterns | 13:43 |
| humphreybc | mpt: you have your own category on OMG! Ubuntu. Do you feel special? | 13:43 |
| andreasn | aday, ah, yes, thanks! | 13:43 |
| aday | we're off topic again. shall we move on to talk about personas? | 13:43 |
| humphreybc | ubuntu manual team has been working on personas | 13:44 |
| humphreybc | for use in the manual | 13:44 |
| humphreybc | not sure what's happening there atm | 13:44 |
| aday | hylke and garrett started some for gnome but there hasn't been any work done for a little while | 13:44 |
| andreasn | aday, ok if I link to the pad from the HIG3 wiki page? | 13:44 |
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| aday | andreasn: it already is 'List of other potential patterns' | 13:45 |
| andreasn | ah, sweet! | 13:45 |
| aday | is there anybody out there who wants to spend some time on this? | 13:46 |
| aday | what kind of research do we want to do for the personas? | 13:46 |
| aday | i've drawn up an interview schedule for the gnome design ones, but finding time to do the interviews will be tricky | 13:47 |
| aday | some observation based research could also work though. what do people think? | 13:48 |
| JanCBorchardt | wers: hey :) | 13:49 |
| wers | JanCBorchardt, there you are. I didn't know they were also discussing at #gnome-design | 13:49 |
| aday | JanCBorchardt: hello there! :) | 13:49 |
| JanCBorchardt | aday: hey to you too ;) | 13:50 |
| aday | seems like the testing tools discussion has moved to #gnome-design :P | 13:50 |
| wers | yeah. lol | 13:50 |
| thorwil | aday: are the interviews something that could be spready, could you try a call for helpers? | 13:51 |
| JanCBorchardt | wers: aday: yes, I suggest we discuss about Pongo on gnome-design because it is not really Ubuntu-only. And work has been done on the wiki already | 13:52 |
| aday | thorwil: i think it needs to be done by at least one person to begin with - the schedule needs to be piloted, and it might evolve to begin with | 13:52 |
| wers | JanCBorchardt, that's right. | 13:52 |
| aday | thorwil: i'm wanting to do rather open-ended interviews - which are difficult to distribute | 13:53 |
| thorwil | ic | 13:53 |
| aday | which isn't to say that others couldn't help | 13:53 |
| aday | it would be great if people wanted to try out the schedule | 13:53 |
| JanCBorchardt | so who here is actually interested in the user testing stuff? (except for wers and aday ;) | 13:54 |
| * thorwil -> coffee | 13:55 | |
| * aday -> cigarette | 13:56 | |
| JanCBorchardt | aday: wers: did I miss anything here? | 13:57 |
| aday | JanCBorchardt: http://pastebin.com/Dd80bbvD | 14:05 |
| aday | JanCBorchardt: i wrote this for pongo. might be useful: http://pastebin.com/Dd80bbvD | 14:06 |
| aday | wrong link! http://live.gnome.org/Pongo/Tutorial | 14:06 |
| wers | aday, thanks for the log | 14:07 |
| JanCBorchardt | aday: yep, have seen that. I was going to put that in the Guerilla testing blogpost | 14:08 |
| JanCBorchardt | and thanks for the log :) | 14:08 |
| andreasn | JanCBorchardt, what's the URL to your blog? | 14:08 |
| JanCBorchardt | andreasn: http://jancborchardt.wordpress.com/ | 14:08 |
| JanCBorchardt | only an introduction as of now, I have some drafts of earlier writings | 14:09 |
| aday | shall we wrap things up for today? anybody fancy writing some notes for the list? | 14:12 |
| JanCBorchardt | I didn’t know of the meeting, is it every Thursday at 13 UTC? | 14:13 |
| aday | JanCBorchardt: yep. there's a launchpad team - ask mpt to add you | 14:13 |
| mgunes | aday, I can do the meeting notes. | 14:15 |
| JanCBorchardt | mpt: could you please add me to the Ayatana UX team? I just discovered I applied a while ago | 14:15 |
| aday | mgunes: awesome! i would but i'm snowed under right now | 14:15 |
| humphreybc | JanCBorchardt: I can add you | 14:15 |
| humphreybc | what's your launchpad thing? | 14:15 |
| mgunes | it will take some hours though; probably late tonight. | 14:16 |
| wers | humphreybc, he's already pending there | 14:16 |
| humphreybc | oh okay | 14:16 |
| humphreybc | i'll approve him now | 14:16 |
| humphreybc | done | 14:17 |
| aday | mgunes: no problem :) | 14:17 |
| JanCBorchardt | humphreybc: cool, thanks | 14:17 |
| mgunes | my suggestion is to use the mailing list for other things than meeting notes, by the way. let's get a bit chatty ;) | 14:18 |
| aday | mgunes: yes, we're not utilising it enough right now | 14:18 |
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| humphreybc | right i'm off guys | 14:19 |
| humphreybc | catch you later :) | 14:19 |
| aday | me too | 14:19 |
| mgunes | aday, right, I prefer the discourse to be more spread out and asynchronous. we'll have to rely less on the meetings that way. | 14:19 |
| mgunes | me too. see you all. | 14:20 |
| aday | humphreybc: see you! | 14:20 |
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