=== fta_ is now known as fta === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [07:09] Good morning [07:18] goooooood morning! [08:31] hi all [08:42] vish: btw, I uploaded a new gnome-power-manager to maverick yesterday, which moved to a more standard icon naming schema; but that means that we need to update our ubuntu icons accordingly [08:42] presumably renaming them [09:05] seb128: gnome-session> sure, my pleasure [09:06] hi [09:06] seb128, d'oh! http://launchpadlibrarian.net/53152059/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.chromium-codecs-ffmpeg_0.6%2Bsvn20100730r54382%2B54907-0ubuntu1~ucd1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz [09:06] pitti, thanks [09:07] fta2, yes, we are discussing it on #ubuntu-devel [09:07] robert_ancell uploaded a broken glib [09:07] k [09:34] seb128, robert_ancell: (low-prio) do you know about gnome-session's 80_new_upstream_session_dialog.patch ? it's not really documented in the changelog and doesn't have patch headers [09:35] * pitti monkey-ports it for now [09:35] pitti, it's a different design of the session dialog [09:36] which is coming from vuntz and opensuse and was supposed to go upstream but didn't [09:36] I think I ported it now; I'll test it [09:37] thanks [09:37] you can display it if you don't have the indicator session by using the gnome-panel logout items [09:37] or press the power button [09:38] should display it as well [09:38] right, ctrl+alt+del does [09:38] ok, I'll make sure it still looks alright [09:43] seb128, no [09:46] pitti: hi , actually it was broken earlier [i think in gpm] , the icons were named according to the standard scheme.. but not sure what might have changed recently , can i see a diff to check what changed and name it accordingly? [09:50] vish: hang on, I'll collect them [09:51] thanks.. [10:00] vish: so, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-power-manager/commit/?id=52821a4b944a69a6eaca420ecce1f9e65ebd6891 is the main one [10:01] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-power-manager/commit/?id=1d893d3b8825e1df6401ec95e4af2252a9d6ae37 [10:01] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-power-manager/commit/?id=e97f8b11d0ac0870d7c29ee444fc1764a30e38ee [10:01] those are the other ones [10:01] the third is probably irrelevant, though [10:01] pitti: cool , thanks ,i'll check them === fta_ is now known as fta [10:15] mpt, hey, are you still busy or can you test a fix for the software list view? I think I have it sussed :) [10:16] and471, ok, what's the branch? [10:17] mpt, ah mvo just merged it so it should be in trunk [10:18] mpt, I also fixed the partner logo bug (where it seemed bigger than the other icons) and redid the ppa icon :) [10:19] and471, cool, I didn't know you were a graphic designer too [10:19] mpt, well from time to time.... :D === fta_ is now known as fta [10:30] and471, that selection fix looks good, well done [10:31] mpt, thankyou :) [10:31] mpt, I'm gonna write a test now so that it doesn't regress :) [10:31] good good [10:32] Hm, has it always been impossible to expand "Get Software" and "Installed Software" with the Right arrow key? === fta_ is now known as fta [10:43] mpt, I don't know, never tried to [10:43] mpt, why, do you want it to be able to? [10:45] and471, yes [10:45] for accessibility [10:46] mpt, let me check if this is possible [10:46] seb128: new gnome-session works well, uploading now [10:47] mpt, do you mean expand with right key when the + icon is clicked, or expand with right key when the whole row is clicked? [10:47] seb128: so gdm is the last thing which still needs libdevkit-power-gobject1; I'll have a look at this [10:47] pitti, thanks [10:47] since this library has been dropped upstream now [10:47] and471, I don't understand the question [10:47] and thus blocks upower upgrades [10:48] and471, I mean when any item that has children is selected (e.g. "Get Software" or "Installed Software"), Right should expand it and Left should collapse it [10:48] If the + icon is clicked you're not using the keyboard anyway :-) [10:49] mpt, ah sorry, I see in the scrollback you said 'arrow key' [10:49] mpt, I read 'right click' :) [10:49] seb128: any idea why 2.30.4 wasn't uploaded yet? [10:50] mpt, ok so when I have selected 'Installed Software' and I click the right arrow key, it should expand, and when I click the left arrow key it should collapse? [10:50] pitti, I got some race issues leading to have no user shown sometime [10:50] but I guess we should upload and deal with those [10:50] feel free to upload [10:50] other people have been running it without issue [10:50] and471, exactly [10:50] and it didn't happen to all my boxes [10:51] seb128: ok; I'll check 2.31 if it introduces gsettings or gtk3 (or did you already?) [10:51] mpt, and what happens if I expand 'Installed Software', go down to 'Provided by Ubuntu' and then click the right arrow key/left arrow key? [10:51] I didn't [10:51] pitti, but I would stay away from 2.31 for now [10:51] seb128: oh? ok [10:51] since we don't know if gdm guys plan to roll a tarball from the 2.30 series for 2.32 [10:52] options for 2.32 with the delay are to roll from 2.30 and keep working toward 3 in trunk [10:52] or do a 2.32 series [10:52] it's up to the maintainers [10:52] a bit of a mess... [10:53] but that's sorting up itself now that a decision has been taken [10:53] let's wait for the next tarball though [10:53] seb128: ok, going with 2.30.4 then [10:53] thanks [10:53] no upower port in upstream git head, anyway [10:53] so I'll check the fedora package/bugzilla/etc. [10:54] ok [10:54] pitti, so can we sort the buildds or do we need to wait for lamont to be there? [10:54] seb128: well, anyone with buildd chroot handling powers [10:54] but AFAIK that's by and large lamont (and maybe elmo) [10:54] that's different from buildd admin? [10:55] as buildd-admin I can rescore builds, stop/start buildds, etc. [10:55] but I don't have access to the actual servers, to manage the chroot tarballs [10:55] ok [10:55] and if I had, I wouldn't know how/what to do, sorry :/ [10:55] that's ok [10:56] is there any chance one of the buildds doesn't have dconf installed? [10:56] ie is it worth retrying to get a different machine picked for the build? [10:56] seb128: no, it's not [10:56] ok [10:56] seb128: the chroots as they are don't have dconf and still have the old glib [10:56] seb128: the problem is that the chroot tarball is unpackaged, and then it runs a dist-upgrade before it starts the package build [10:57] that dist-upgrade picks up the new glib and dconf, [10:57] and it's the dist-upgrade that breaks [10:57] ok [10:57] so either we need to do a build without dist-upgrade [10:57] or do a dist-upgrade in the chroots and hit them over the head to work [10:57] ok, let's wait for lamont then [10:57] porting gdm to libupower seems trivial, I'll have a go at it [10:57] thanks [10:58] I did my share of work this week (due to long hours on release), so I might as well do something fun today :) [10:58] ;-) [10:59] seb128 killed the archive/builders again ;)? === lifeless_ is now known as lifeless [10:59] what gcc bug id is that? [10:59] "- use -O0 to workaround compiler bug leading to crashes [10:59] " [11:00] i guess someone from our toolchain folks needs to look at that? [11:02] and471, that should still collapse it, I think [11:05] seb128: hey, has anyone else had X troubles after a distupgrade this morning [11:05] I can't get X running on maverick [11:06] ronoc, I guess you got the buggy glib which makes everything crash on i386 [11:06] nice :) [11:06] asac, it was not me, I even sent an email yesterday to say to not upload glib until that's sorted [11:06] seb128: is there any work around ? [11:06] but apparently the issue doesn't happen on amd64 [11:06] ronoc, downgrade glib [11:07] seb128: to which version ? [11:07] 2.25.11-1ubuntu3 [11:07] thx seb [11:07] ronoc, sorry about that [11:07] back shortly hopefully on maverick [11:08] no worries, part and parcel of software dev [11:11] . o O { make -j4 on a fast quad-core is fun! } [11:12] asac, I'm trying to build on gcc-4.5 now [11:14] pitti, same issue with gcc-4.5 [11:15] seb128: so, might be a glib regresssion after all? [11:16] could be [11:16] seb128: ok. if you have a gcc bug or something i can ask someone from our toolchain hackers to maybe look [11:16] asac, debian bug #591075 [11:16] Debian bug 591075 in libglib2.0-0 "libglib2.0-0: segfaults in postinst script (i.e. installation fails), reportbug/python, emacs, etc." [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/591075 [11:17] asac, see current comment [11:17] oh its not only us [11:17] hmm [11:18] right [11:18] seems lool is aware [11:18] so they are probably on it [11:18] is he? [11:18] thanks [11:20] brb [11:24] seb128: lool filed the debian bug ;) [11:25] oh, right ;-) [11:29] seb128: maybe it would be good to add this problem to topic or send email to -devel? [11:29] or is all fine now that buidlers are stopped? [11:29] we blocked the binaries on the mirrors [11:29] and the builders are stopped [11:29] couldn't hurt to message the issue as well I guess [11:29] I will drop an email on ubuntu-devel [11:34] mpt, fixed, could you test? https://code.launchpad.net/~and471/software-center/fix-keypresses-on-viewswitcher === cking-afk is now known as cking1 [11:44] seb128: apt-get install libglib2.0.0=2.25.11-1ubuntu3 couldn't find that version ? [11:45] ronoc, you need to get on launchpad it's not on the mirror now since it has been replaced [11:45] seb128: manually install it ? [11:47] ronoc, yes, get the debs from launchpad [11:47] ronoc, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.25.11-3ubuntu1/+build/1879944 [11:47] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.25.11-3ubuntu1/+build/1879944/+files/libglib2.0-0_2.25.11-3ubuntu1_i386.deb [11:47] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.25.11-3ubuntu1/+build/1879944/+files/libglib2.0-bin_2.25.11-3ubuntu1_i386.deb [11:47] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.25.11-3ubuntu1/+build/1879944/+files/libglib2.0-bin_2.25.11-3ubuntu1_i386.deb [11:47] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.25.11-3ubuntu1/+build/1879944/+files/libglib2.0-data_2.25.11-3ubuntu1_all.deb [11:47] you might need the -dev as well for your box [11:50] good morning (well, sort of ;)) there! [11:51] seb128: thx [11:52] gnome dudes: does evolution show HTML e-mails by default? [11:52] hey didrocks; late morning for you :) === fta_ is now known as fta [11:53] Riddell: yes; I certainly didn't enable it manually, and I see HTML mails [11:53] pitti, Riddell, yep it is on by default [11:54] is this controvertial at all? does it lead to security problems? [11:55] it didn't come up so far; but HTML email should be relatively harmless [11:55] it would be a huge risk if it would run JavaScript by default [11:56] pitti: heh, right, I'm in the Alps, at my parent's home [11:57] pitti: what about phishing attacks? wouldn't it make that much easier? [11:58] Riddell: by being colorful? [11:58] what do you mean? [11:59] by making an e-mail use the logo and branding of your bank [12:01] hey didrocks, you missed all the fun today === fta_ is now known as fta [12:01] seb128: which means? real fun or bad news? :) [12:02] didrocks, broken glib segfaulting on i386 [12:02] still being dealt with [12:02] seb128: urgh, yeah, that's some definition of "fun" :) [12:02] just for the record I'm not to blame [12:03] sudo dpkg -P libdevkit-power-gobject1 [12:03] I even dropped an email before going to bed to say the new version was crashing for me and in debian [12:03] * pitti whistles [12:04] seb128: when did the issue happened? yesterday evening? (as I dist-upgraded and don't get any issue there) [12:04] didrocks, no, this morning around 9 [12:04] robert_ancell did the upgrade [12:04] didrocks, we blocked the binaries to be downloaded now [12:05] seb128: ok, so not a lot of people had the time to download it, fortunately [12:05] right [12:05] and it's only 32bits arch [12:05] "only" [12:05] lol [12:05] all builders got disabled though ;) [12:05] ahah "only" ;) [12:05] err not only i396 i mean [12:06] so really all 32-bit === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:13] didrocks, btw your new clutter -dev should depends on json-glib-dev [12:14] didrocks, seems kamstrup had issues with that today [12:14] seb128, oh yeah, I only fixed the build-dep, not the -dev [12:14] seb128, didrocks: yeah [12:14] kamstrup, seb128, thanks, I'm finishing backlogging email and will work on that [12:14] pkg-config --cflags clutter-1.0 doesn't work unless json-glib is installed [12:14] (and fixing weechat to connect directly to IRC as I turned my server off) [12:15] didrocks, ok, no problem [12:15] kamstrup, yeah, we switched to system one now [12:15] sorry about that :) [12:16] didrocks, no problem, I figured it out eventually! But autotools was screwing me over, because they failed silently, giving me an empty CFLAGS variable, causing my builds to fail with "No such file glib.h" [12:16] kamstrup, argh, that was the trap :-) [12:16] so I scrutinized glib packaging, until I started suspecting autotools, which lead me to clutter [12:17] yeah, that's autohell for you :-) [12:17] heh === didrocks1 is now known as didrocks === fta_ is now known as fta [12:49] hi nessita, how is the dialog coming along? [12:54] hello and471! [12:54] I though you were off today :-) [12:54] thought* [12:55] nessita, yeah, turns out I am off tomorrow :) [12:55] and471: the dialog is coming very good :-) [12:55] how are you? [12:56] nessita, good :) getting stuck in with some testing and other bug fixes for SC [12:56] nessita, I have started doing gui tests for SC, as my teacher could you mark my homework? https://code.launchpad.net/~and471/software-center/dont-test-me [13:03] and471: I will indeed, but I'm not sure I'd be able today [13:04] and471: we're running against the clock with USC (ubuntu-sso-client) [13:04] nessita, ah ok sorry, I will let you get on :) [13:04] and471: is ok :-) [13:05] chrisccoulson: hey, any idea about bug #576991? It makes gnome-shell not able to be launched (see bug #611262) [13:05] Launchpad bug 576991 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 5 other projects) "Add a wrapper for LD_LIBRARY_PATH to gnome-shell so we don't have to rebuild gjs for xulrunner updates (affects: 4) (heat: 58)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576991 [13:05] Launchpad bug 611262 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] Mutter warning - Could not load /usr/lib/mutter/plugins/libgnome-shell.so (affects: 1) (heat: 482)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611262 [13:08] Riddell, hey, do you have time for a quick newing? [13:08] seb128: if you ask nicely [13:09] Riddell, could you please review zeitgeist-extensions for didrocks? [13:09] I'm still fighting the glib breakage [13:09] let me look [13:09] seb128: Riddell: thanks :) [13:09] seb128: good luck! [13:10] Riddell, I've reviewed it before upload so it should be ok, newing to main if you can, it's a split of zg code [13:10] didrocks, thanks [13:10] didrocks - yeah, i've been meaning to get around to it at some point [13:10] Riddell: just for the record, we only ship the fts extension right now (as discussed with kamstrup) [13:10] we break gnome-shell with every firefox upload [13:10] chrisccoulson: yeah, GS is "broken" for people, and it seems to hide an other break because of my clutter update with system js :) [13:11] json* [13:13] seb128: hello there! have a few minutes? [13:13] didrocks: accepted [13:13] Riddell: thanks a lot :) [13:13] the source anyway, binaries still to come I expect [13:14] Riddell: do you want me to ping you once built? [13:14] nessita, hey [13:14] didrocks: I don't mind, you're the one who wants it approved :) [13:15] Riddell: hehe, I will so. Thanks :) [13:15] nessita, sort of, I'm trying to sort the glib breakage in maverick, but you can ask your question ;-) [13:15] seb128: I just wanted to confirm if you could build the 0.0.4 version of ubuntu-sso-client that I sent at the end of the platform sprint [13:16] nessita, you want me to test if it builds fine there or to get it uploaded? [13:17] nessita, I tried the deb you sent me, I can try to build the source now if you want [13:17] seb128: I want to know if you uploaded to the repo [13:18] I didn't [13:18] you want me to do it? [13:18] seb128: hum.... no thanks, we'll be releasing another package today or Monday, so it's fine [13:18] ok [13:19] sorry I though it was just meant for me to test locally [13:19] I didn't get that you wanted it uploaded [13:19] seb128: is ok :-) [13:19] I wasn't clear enough [13:20] nessita, you should practice your french so I can understand you better next time ;-) [13:20] jajaja [13:20] * nessita writes down [13:20] nessita, ;-) [13:21] seb128: "s'il vous plait, je veux le .deb subie a le repositorie" [13:21] seb128: you see, she even speaks "your French" (which is kind of Deutsch were you live ;)) [13:21] * didrocks runs away [13:21] didrocks: well said! :-D [13:22] * seb128 slaps didrocks [13:22] nessita, I understand the start of what you wrote then you became lazy and it makes no sense [13:23] that's the issue with you I think, you should try to not be lazy ;-) [13:23] seb128: how do you say "upload to the repository"? [13:23] nessita, I think it is along the lines of 'google translate' [13:23] XD [13:23] and471: but that takes all the fun away [13:23] this way I get to invent tn [13:24] tons of words* [13:24] nessita, my french teacher would be horrified if she knew what I just said xD [13:24] nessita, a bit of espanfranglais? [13:25] and471: tried that, but seb128 is too picky :-P [13:26] nessita, try "pousser dans l'archive" [13:29] pitti, glib crashes without any distro change as well [13:30] sounds like gdb time then? [13:30] the compiler knows about the issue, it's annoying "//usr/include/bits/string3.h:86:3: warning: call to __builtin___memset_chk will always overflow destination buffer" [13:30] seb128: aah -fstack-protector [13:30] I bet that building with -fno-stack-protector will not crash then [13:31] that would explain why the ./configure && make works [13:31] yep [13:31] still an upstream bug I guess [13:31] sometimes I wish we would use -Werror more :) [13:32] seb128: yes, absolutely; in which file does that happen? [13:32] gobject/gsignal.c:77 [13:32] 5:49: [13:32] /usr/include/bits/string3.h:86:3: warning: call to __builtin___memset_chk will always overflow destination buffer [13:33] [13:33] pitti, [13:33] In file included from //usr/include/string.h:642:0, [13:33] from gobject/gsignal.c:29: [13:33] In function ‘memset’, [13:33] inlined from ‘g_bsearch_array_create’ at glib/gbsear [13:33] charray.h:137:10, [13:33] inlined from ‘g_signal_init’ at gobject/gsignal.c:77 [13:33] 5:49: [13:33] /usr/include/bits/string3.h:86:3: warning: call to __builtin___memset_chk will always overflow destination buffer [13:33] [13:33] that's from the build log [13:34] * pitti git clones [13:35] but those functions didn't change between 2.25.11 and 2.25.12 [13:35] hm, gsignal.c:29 is #include [13:35] those sources didn't change [13:36] hm, so maybe that was a red herring then [13:37] seb128: where does the segfault actually happen? do you have a gdb trace? [13:38] yes, one sec === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:40] pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/474018/ [13:40] #6 0x008b3ac2 in memset () at //usr/include/bits/string3.h:86 [13:40] #7 g_bsearch_array_create () [13:40] at glib2.0-2.25.12/glib/gbsearcharray.h:137 [13:40] #8 g_signal_init () atglib2.0-2.25.12/gobject/gsignal.c:775 [13:45] * pitti tries to have two debugging conversations at the same time; back now [13:50] seb128: hm, I have stared at that code for 5 mins now, and I don't see what's wrong [13:51] - barray = (GBSearchArray *) g_realloc (NULL, size); [13:51] + barray = (GBSearchArray *) g_malloc (size); [13:51] that was the code change, which presumably led to the crash [13:51] when did that change? [13:51] ba6be2035d9bd43b1a873492e189d0bccbd20178 [13:51] Fri Jun 5 23:24:28 2009 -0400 [13:51] I doubt it [13:51] .11 was after that? [13:51] don't know if you got this : mpt, fixed, could you test? https://code.launchpad.net/~and471/software-center/fix-keypresses-on-viewswitcher [13:52] pitti, it was on Jul 11 [13:52] ok [13:52] seb128: but that's the only difference to gbsearcharray.h [13:52] yeah, I don't get it either [13:53] size should always be > sizeof (GBSearchArray) [13:53] the debian bug suggests it's a compiler issue [13:54] and471, sorry, I got as far as branching it but then forgot it [13:54] seb128: I can't explain it otherwise; the code looks fie [13:54] seb128: then again, why does .11 work?? [13:54] replacing the g_malloc, memset with a g_malloc0 workaround the warning but it still crashes [13:55] mpt, no problem, there is no rush [13:56] pitti, the 2.25.11 log has no "overflow destination buffer" for some reason [13:56] seb128: ok, maybe the code is organized slightly different there, so that it doesn't trigger the bug [13:58] and471, perfect. [13:58] and471, works exactly as expected [13:59] and471, bwahaha, I just discovered another selection bug [13:59] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/53144885/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.glib2.0_2.25.12-1ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz is the buggy build log [13:59] seb128: oh, wait [13:59] seb128: perhaps G_BSEARCH_UPPER_POWER2(n) produces the wrong result here? [14:00] mpt, you evil genius... ;) [14:00] and471, select an item in a software list view, then use Ctrl+click to deselect it. The "More Info" and "Install"/"Remove" buttons should disappear, but they don't. [14:01] * and471 goes back to the software-center code... [14:01] pitti, but that didn't change between 2.25.11 and 2.25.12 either [14:01] seb128: no, wrt. compiler bug [14:01] seb128: do you have a built tree? [14:01] yes [14:01] seb128: if you drop teh G_BSEARCH_ARRAY_ALIGN_POWER2 from static const GBSearchConfig g_signal_key_bconfig, does it still crsah? [14:02] i. e. replace it with 0 [14:02] pitti, let me try [14:06] pitti, sorry taking a bit, my machine starts being loaded with builds [14:06] mpt, If you Ctrl+Click on any item in the software list view it will pseudo-select it as well :( [14:12] pitti, ok, that sort of fix it [14:14] seb128: does that still produce the fortify warning? [14:14] * pitti is curious what "sort of" means [14:14] no it doesn't [14:14] in fact it has the same effect that the -O0 build I did early [14:14] it fixes that crash [14:14] but I get another one [14:14] but that's interesting data [14:14] so we can conclude that DISABLE_MEM_POOLS is not set [14:15] and more importantly that [14:15] #define G_BSEARCH_UPPER_POWER2(n) ((n) ? 1 << g_bit_storage ((n) - 1) : 0) [14:15] returns a smaller value than its input [14:15] and since the compiler could figure this out at compile time, perhaps g_bit_storage always returns 0? [14:15] pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/474034/ [14:16] seb128: it might stumble over the misaligned buffer now? [14:16] could be [14:16] seb128: I wonder if you could gdb this, and check what this actually does to size: [14:16] size = G_BSEARCH_UPPER_POWER2 (size); [14:16] (with turning the option back on) [14:17] what option? [14:17] seb128: sorry, not aligment [14:17] you mean undoing the change? [14:17] seb128: the G_BSEARCH_ARRAY_ALIGN_POWER2 which you replaced with 0 [14:18] seb128: ah, sorry, not alignment; that constant is mislabeled [14:18] it's filling up the size up to the next power of 2, not the alignment [14:18] seb128: I'd bet that G_BSEARCH_UPPER_POWER2 (size) returns 0, or 1, or something very small with -O2, and works with -O0 [14:19] aaah [14:20] seb128: glib/gutils.h, g_bit_storage() indeed has completely different code with defined(__OPTIMIZE__) [14:20] I need to break at the right place in gdb [14:20] trying to do that [14:20] seb128: I'll boot my i386 VM and check the g_bit_storage() implementation while you do that gdbing, ok? [14:20] ok [14:21] mpt, if I right click on an item in the software list view, should it select the item? [14:21] seb128: bingo! [14:22] http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=a1b015f7b70b3851d5a6e45fd4114c7723b4f1ea [14:22] seb128: that's worth a try [14:22] seb128: it's exactly the code path that is taken with -O2, and which fails [14:24] and471, I guess so, but that should be default behavior for GTK lists already [14:24] pitti, building... [14:25]