[00:12] <darran> i think 607320 can be marked as wishlist
[00:12] <darran> https://192.168.10.22:8443/agility/AgilityFactory.jsp
[00:13] <drizzle> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-disk-utility/+bug/607320
[00:13] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 607320 in gnome-disk-utility (Ubuntu) "Disk Utility lacks door lock/unlock button for CD/DVD drives (affects: 1) (heat: 256)" [Undecided,New]
[00:13] <drizzle> thats the correct link
[00:52] <micahg> hggdh: still around, I have a couple minutes
[00:53] <drizzle> can someone dad 607320 to wishlist?
[00:53] <micahg> bug 607320
[00:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 607320 in gnome-disk-utility (Ubuntu) "Disk Utility lacks door lock/unlock button for CD/DVD drives (affects: 1) (heat: 256)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607320
[00:53] <drizzle> also 369695 needs to be forwarded upstream i think
[00:54] <micahg> drizzle: bug 607320 should probably be upstreamed
[00:54] <drizzle> i dont think i can do that
[00:56]  * micahg isn't sure if it belongs there
[00:56] <micahg> bug 369695
[00:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 369695 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "login to msn takes 4-5 tries (affects: 1) (heat: 7)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369695
[00:56] <micahg> drizzle: wishlist done
[00:57] <micahg> drizzle: I think it might be a dupe
[00:57] <drizzle> k
[00:57] <drizzle> ill look
[00:57] <micahg> drizzle: 369695 that is
[00:57] <micahg> drizzle: also, FYI, pidgin devs don't want reports unless they're tested against the latest code
[00:58] <drizzle> k
[00:58] <micahg> s/code/release
[00:58] <micahg> drizzle: but you can always check upstream for an open issue
[00:58] <drizzle> maybe ill e-mail the reporter and see if hes still experiencing it
[00:58] <drizzle> still cant believe ubuntu dropped pidgin for empathy
[00:58] <drizzle> no worries - not the place
[00:58] <micahg> drizzle: just gnome, xubuntu still has it as default
[01:04] <drizzle> i think 614609 is going to be either a question or a wishlist
[01:06] <micahg> bug 614609
[01:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 614609 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "I have some comments on recovery mode friendly-recovery (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614609
[01:06] <drizzle> i think what hes talking about is using the kernel recovery mode to fix broken packages
[01:06] <drizzle> and there isn't an internet connection
[01:07]  * micahg doesn't know about that package so deferring to someone else
[01:08] <hggdh> micahg: still there?
[01:08] <micahg> hggdh: yeah
[01:09] <micahg> hggdh: so, first, apport retracers aren't enabled for hardy/jaunty
[01:09] <micahg> hggdh: second, what if people forget how to turn off crash reporting and don't want apport to pop up
[01:09] <hggdh> hum
[01:10] <hggdh> well, they are not enabled either for Lucid, are they?
[01:10] <micahg> hggdh: yes, karmic, lucid, maverick
[01:10] <hggdh> oh, this is news to me. I guess one of the things I do not get to see, since I am always running the latest
[01:10] <hggdh> but I think I see where you are going
[01:11] <micahg> hggdh: it was news to me as well when I found out
[01:11] <hggdh> we should have an easy way of enabling/disabling
[01:11] <micahg> hggdh: we have that :)
[01:11] <hggdh> nope
[01:11] <micahg> sudo service apport start force_start=1
[01:11] <hggdh> we have a way that requires console access
[01:11] <hggdh> and there is no automagic disabling
[01:12] <micahg> with that method there is, on reboot, it goes off
[01:12] <hggdh> like, say, after a certain crash, or after a while
[01:12] <hggdh> yes, but still needs console access. I would like to have it done under X also (so that a casual user could set it up/unset it
[01:13] <hggdh> micahg: let's say I want to report a crash of (shudder) Evolution
[01:13] <hggdh> so I should be able to enable it for evolution *only*
[01:14] <hggdh> what wse do now will either enable forever for all crashes, or just until reboot
[01:15] <hggdh> too abrangent/restrictive (wow, both at the same time!)
[01:16] <drizzle> micahg
[01:16] <micahg> hggdh: sounds like a feature request
[01:17] <drizzle> i am thinking 614609 is wishlist / featurerequest
[01:17] <micahg> bug 614609
[01:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 614609 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "I have some comments on recovery mode friendly-recovery (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614609
[01:17] <micahg> drizzle: I deferred since I'm unfamiliar with the app
[01:17] <micahg> maybe hggdh can help
[01:18] <drizzle> what does defer mean
[01:19] <drizzle> are you saying ask someone?
[01:19] <drizzle> else
[01:19] <hggdh> drizzle: like me ;-)
[01:19] <drizzle> hggdh
[01:19] <drizzle> do you want o look at it
[01:19] <drizzle> ?
[01:19] <hggdh> looking
[01:21] <hggdh> drizzle: sigh. Although all referring to friendly-recovery, there are 3 different things there. No matter what, it is one issue per bug, one bug per issue...
[01:22] <hggdh> drizzle: but all are indeed feature requests, so your comment applies.
[01:22] <hggdh> I will set them as wishlist
[01:22] <drizzle> there are three different things
[01:22] <drizzle> and i think his english is not that good
[01:23] <hggdh> drizzle: well, not really unexpected. Ubuntu is used all over the world, so you will get bad English
[01:23] <hggdh> it is part of our job to make sense off badly-written English ;-)
[01:26] <hggdh> drizzle: done
[01:27] <hggdh> drizzle: and 'defer' mean to put off, to let somebody else make a decision
[01:27] <drizzle> k no worries
[01:28] <hggdh> drizzle: and thank you for helping ;-)
[01:39] <drizzle> anyone here?
[01:39] <drizzle> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tzdata/+bug/599466 is an upstream bug already reported in debian
[01:39] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 599466 in tzdata (Ubuntu) "tzdata refers to Americas as "America" (affects: 1) (heat: 97)" [Undecided,New]
[01:39] <drizzle> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=508118
[01:39] <ubot2> Debian bug 508118 in tzdata "Incorrect term for Americas" [Minor,Open]
[01:41] <micahg> drizzle: Also affects Distro, select debian and add tzdata as the package w/the link
[01:41] <hggdh> drizzle: good. You can, then, add an upstream link to the bug
[01:41] <drizzle> ok
[01:41] <drizzle> im sorry
[01:41] <drizzle> but how do i do this
[01:41] <drizzle> im looking at the ubuntu bug
[01:41] <hggdh> drizzle: select "Also affects distribution", then select Debian, and add the link there
[01:41] <drizzle> ok i did that
[01:41] <drizzle> ok
[01:41] <drizzle> done
[01:42] <drizzle> now i see
[01:42] <drizzle> the screen has a lot of stuff on it
[01:42] <hggdh> yes. Make sure you select Debian
[01:42] <drizzle> i id
[01:42] <drizzle> did
[01:42] <drizzle> can i confirm it
[01:42] <drizzle> i confirmed it in ubuntu
[01:43] <hggdh> perfect. I will set it as Triaged
[01:44]  * micahg is off
[01:44] <hggdh> done
[01:46]  * hggdh is now officially on Saturday
[01:46] <drizzle> ok
[01:46] <drizzle> there are a few tzdata bugs
[01:46] <drizzle> that are upstream
[04:15] <stanley_robertso> hi all
[04:36] <kermiac> hi stanley_robertso
[07:38] <stanley_robertso> hi kermiac
[09:29] <renier1> hi folks
[09:30] <renier1> i'm hitting a nasty bug on ubuntu 10.04 netbook edition and would like to submit a report (my first)
[09:31] <renier1> i'd appreciate some help on how to collect information for the report
[09:33] <renier1> basically, i'm hitting a hang in the user interface, this occurs intermittently
[09:33] <vish> renier1: what is the bug? what symptoms?
[09:33] <renier1> by hang i mean, i've got mouse movement, but mouse clicks don't respond at all
[09:33] <vish> stanley_robertso: heya!
[09:33] <renier1> prtscr works
[09:34] <renier1> and i can switch to console mode with CTRL-ALT-F1
[09:34] <renier1> can't switch between apps (this usually occurs while browsing with either chrome or firefox)
[09:34] <gorilla> renier1: have a read of the following: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[09:35] <renier1> thanks gorilla, i will check it out
[09:35] <vish> renier1: hang , and it does not respond or takes a very long time to respond?
[09:35] <vish> hangs*
[09:36] <renier1> vish, it does not respond, within 5-10 minutes. i've not left it any longer
[09:37] <renier1> it's been happened about 5times in the past 2-3weeks, never happened before
[09:38] <renier1> i've installed all the automatic updates that the system suggested during that time, which leads me to suspect it's a new bug
[09:39] <vish> renier1: hmm , its probably something related to you graphics drivers , try checking launchpad for existing bugs
[09:39] <renier1> i will do, thanks vish
[09:40] <renier1> i'm from a solaris background, so my first inclination is to collect a crash dump for analysis
[09:40] <renier1> is there an easy way to do this on ubuntu?
[09:40] <JoshuaL> ubuntu-bug packagename
[09:41] <renier1> JoshuaL, my problem is that it's not easily apparent in which package the bug lives
[09:41] <JoshuaL> ah
[09:42] <renier1> the problem has occurred while using different browsers, and impacts the entire user interface
[09:42] <renier1> for reference the graphics driver:
[09:42] <renier1> VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express Integrated Graphics Controller
[09:43] <renier1> so, when i speak of crash dump i mean a dump of the entire os for post mortem analysis
[09:45] <renier1> thanks for the help. i will check launchpad for existing bugs and log a placeholder bug describing the symptoms the next time the problem occurs
[09:47] <JoshuaL> good luck finding the bug :)
[09:47] <renier1> thanks :)
[10:00] <renier1> hah, found the following which helps a lot:
[10:00] <renier1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze
[11:03] <guzu> hello all
[11:04] <guzu> is there a known problem with launchpad? i keep getting timeout errors
[11:04] <yofel> that is somewhat of a known problem -.-
[11:05] <guzu> thank you
[11:05] <yofel> guzu: btw, it would be best if you could use ubuntu-bug on the affected notebook as that will add some information about the system to the bug
[11:05] <guzu> yofel, i'm just installing maverick on it
[11:06] <yofel> ah, well, then see if it works there and add that information to the bug
[11:06] <guzu> ok
[11:07] <guzu> same thing, it freezes
[11:25] <guzu> yofel, unfortunately, the timeout occurs from apport, too. i'll just give up
[11:31] <vish> devildante: hi, did you ping mvo to review your update manager branch?
[11:31] <devildante> vish: not yet
[11:31] <devildante> vish: but I saw what you did with the bug reports, thx :)
[11:31] <vish> devildante: rigtho , we need to do that before UIF
[11:32] <vish> devildante: np .. ;)
[11:32] <devildante> vish: not before FeatureFreeze?
[11:32] <vish> devildante: oh , even better :)
[11:33] <devildante> vish: argh, mvo isn't here
[11:33] <devildante> yet
[11:33] <vish> devildante: weekened ;) he'll be back on Mon
[11:33] <devildante> vish: oh, okay
[11:37] <devildante> vish: should I make mvo the reviewer for my branches?
[11:37] <vish> devildante: yeah , add him
[11:37] <devildante> vish: okay, thx
[11:41] <devildante> vish: all done :)
[11:42] <vish> devildante: neat , thanks! :)
[11:42] <devildante> vish: np :)
[11:43] <devildante> vish: shouldn't we be discussing about this on #ubuntu-desktop in the future?
[11:43] <vish> devildante: meh ;p
[11:43] <vish> devildante: it is related to bugs though ;)
[11:44] <devildante> vish: true
[14:22] <Laibsch> and another recent member of the BugSquad that instead of doing useful work creates more
[14:22] <Laibsch> https://launchpad.net/~fabiomarconi
[14:22] <BUGabundo> bRoas
[14:23] <Laibsch> who is granting these kinds of privileges?  Is there a lottery or do people actually have to show they know what they are doing?  Is anybody actually watching what they are doing?
[14:23] <Laibsch> BUGabundo: was that an answer to my question?
[14:23] <Laibsch> hm, no, I guess
[14:23] <Laibsch> hadn't asked the question, yet ;-)
[14:25] <BUGabundo> correct
[14:25] <BUGabundo> but I think its 42!
[14:25] <nigelb> Laibsch: member of bug squad?
[14:25] <Laibsch> nigelb: Fabio is a member of bug squad since about two weeks
[14:25] <nigelb> if so, there is no previledges granted.  anyone can do stuff.  if you have a problem with somone's work, raise it with him/her via email.
[14:26] <nigelb> all we care for joining bug squad is CoC and agreed to have read triage guide.
[14:26] <Laibsch> He's like the fourth guy who as a recent bugsquad member is overeager and doing harm instead of helping
[14:26] <Laibsch> bug 376485 is what I know, I'm sure he sent out a batch of those
[14:26] <nigelb> Laibsch: I'd say talk to him because I've done some nasty stuff when I started out too :D
[14:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 376485 in ubuntu ""Key stuck" after switching workspace in Gnome with Keyboard shortcut (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/376485
[14:27] <Laibsch> nigelb: is that so?  My apologies, then.  I thought it came with elevated priviledges?  Is that not the case?
[14:28] <nigelb> Laibsch: Only bug control comes with elevated previleges.
[14:28] <Laibsch> sorry, it's "bug control" that grants the privs, right?
[14:28] <Laibsch> OK
[14:28] <Laibsch> sorry, my misunderstanding
[14:28] <Laibsch> ordinary guy, then
[14:28] <nigelb> Also, the bug reprter was rude to someone who's trying to help.
[14:28] <Laibsch> sorry for the noise
[14:29] <nigelb> njin: ^
[14:29] <nigelb> Laibsch: talk to njin, that's his irc nick.
[14:30] <njin> nigelb: tell me
[14:31] <Laibsch> njin: please stop comments like "When reporting bugs in the future please use apport by using 'ubuntu-bug' and the name of the package affected."
[14:31] <Laibsch> that is not helping, it's alienating
[14:32] <Laibsch> people may have good reasons (and did have good reasons in this case) for not choosing a package
[14:32] <Laibsch> the pointer to ubuntu-bug is OK
[14:33] <nigelb> Just to add to that, if you can figure out the package, you should change it and then give this comment.
[14:33] <Laibsch> the suggestion that unspecified bug reports are not welcome is not
[14:33] <njin> I'm just using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Bugs%20without%20a%20package
[14:33] <Laibsch> nigelb: nod
[14:33] <Laibsch> maybe the wiki needs to be changed, then
[14:33] <Laibsch> let me see
[14:33] <njin> I'm just a bot...
[14:34] <Laibsch> njin: that is dangerous
[14:34] <njin> ;)
[14:34] <Laibsch> and the impression I got
[14:34] <Laibsch> if bug triage was bots work, we'd use bots, I guess
[14:35] <Laibsch> mass comments are dangerous
[14:35] <njin> I'm not talking serioussly
[14:35] <Laibsch> I *am*
[14:35] <Laibsch> please take the work seriuosly
[14:37] <njin> Laibsch: my mentor teel me to add this at every reply of mine old bug without package assigned.
[14:38] <njin> and because i send 800 request, now i have to send 800 of this reply.
[14:39] <Laibsch> AAARGGHH
[14:39] <Laibsch> Who is your mentor?
[14:39] <Laibsch> nigelb: 800!!!
[14:39] <njin> Laibsch: what iI have to do, to go on or to stop me.
[14:39] <Laibsch> what you did is done
[14:40] <Laibsch> please don't continue with this particular type of comment
[14:40] <Laibsch> do you understand where the problem is?
[14:40] <Laibsch> please also tell me who your sponsor is
[14:40] <Laibsch> I think he needs some update, too
[14:41] <Laibsch> njin: ?
[14:41] <nigelb> Laibsch: I'll take care of it.
[14:42] <Laibsch> OK
[14:42] <Laibsch> I think the bigger problem is sending out 800 comments like that
[14:42] <Laibsch> nobody can look at 800 bugs
[14:42] <vish> Laibsch: could you mention , what is exactly wrong with that comment?
[14:43] <Laibsch> sending out comments to bugs and snippets of texts without even a short look is not good (unless in very few circumstances)
[14:43] <Laibsch> vish: you're the mentor?
[14:43] <Laibsch> or just curious?
[14:43] <vish> Laibsch: no , but you assume the mentor has less knowledge about bugs
[14:43] <Laibsch> I don't
[14:44] <Laibsch> but he certainly is overlooking a problem
[14:44] <njin> Excuse me, the majority of these 800 bugs are reported by one person and probably due to hardware issue in most cases not reproducible
[14:44] <vish> Laibsch: btw, are you the bug reporter?
[14:44] <Laibsch> yes
[14:44] <Laibsch> the problem is that although nigelb or anybody else using that snippet may come across to the OP as having some kind of official position
[14:44] <vish> Laibsch: first , no need for that offensive response , njin is just trying to help
[14:45] <Laibsch> and people may not know what package a bug is in
[14:45] <njin> from these 800 bugs i've recived no more than 100 reply, majority say that the problem is fixed
[14:45] <Laibsch> in that case assigning against ubuntu is the best thing to do, IMHO
[14:45] <Laibsch> if njin had actually read the ticket he would have seen the efforts to determine what package the bug is in
[14:45] <vish> Laibsch: that doesnt make the response wrong? it does need to be assigned to a package for a report to be taken care of by a developer
[14:46] <vish> Laibsch: bugs in ubuntu are just a black hole ... they need to be assigned before any progress can take place
[14:46] <Laibsch> vish: the response is not offensive.  It's factual.  Plus the snippet is useless and harmful.
[14:46] <Laibsch> vish: then the triager should help doing that
[14:46] <Laibsch> otherwise it's useless and harmful
[14:47] <Laibsch> bots work
[14:47] <Laibsch> triage is not bots work
[14:47] <Laibsch> look at the ticket and you will see that I did quite a lot to find out whether it is a kernel or Xorg bug
[14:47] <vish> Laibsch: yes , agreed bout that , but the triager doesnt seem to know about the package either. so not need to be rude there ;)
[14:47] <Laibsch> I'm not rude
[14:48] <penguin42> Laibsch: It came across somewhere between frustrated and rude
[14:48] <Laibsch> and the "the triager is using his free time" is not a valid response IMHO
[14:48] <Laibsch> the OP or any other reporter is also using his free time
[14:48] <vish> Laibsch: well, #5 is a bit rude, njin is new  , that is not really a good way to treat new contributors
[14:49] <Laibsch> you guys only see the perspective of people trying to help you
[14:49] <Laibsch> I appreciate people trying to help triage
[14:49] <Laibsch> but you guys seem to forget that unless people report bugs, you've got nothing to work on
[14:50] <vish> Laibsch: i can see your frustration too :) , but such a response can be a bit scary for a new triager
[14:50] <Laibsch> why did Ubuntu rightfully start "please reopen if this is still a problem" type of comment? to make
[14:50] <Laibsch> answer: to make sure people are not alienated
[14:51] <njin> I just want to tell that i just made my third session of mentoring
[14:51] <Laibsch> vish: I am of the opinion that new triagers should not work on more than maybe 10 bugs a day
[14:51] <Laibsch> or something like that
[14:51] <Laibsch> certainly not 800
[14:51] <Laibsch> I've seen exactly this type of problem at least 4-5 times before
[14:51] <Laibsch> it's scary that even the wiki and mentors are now encouraging mass-comments without actually looking
[14:52]  * Laibsch is off to the wiki
[14:52] <njin> but this isn't mass comment.
[14:52] <vish> Laibsch: dont edit wiki's without discussing here
[14:52] <vish> Laibsch: can you suggest how we can handle such bugs better?
[14:52] <njin> this are just request of confirmation of the existing of the bug in the new version
[14:52] <Laibsch> I think it's easiest for me to make the change and then point to it here
[14:53] <Laibsch> njin: the first comment is OK
[14:53] <Laibsch> after a year or so
[14:53] <Laibsch> I don't have issue with that one
[14:53] <vish> Laibsch: no , the wiki is a guideline and not to be altered without prior discussion
[14:54] <vish> Laibsch: and any changes to the wiki are sent out to the whole bug squad
[14:54] <Laibsch> OK
[14:54] <Laibsch> whatever, then
[14:54] <Laibsch> do as you please
[14:54] <Laibsch> Ubuntu used to be fun
[14:54] <Laibsch> used to do the right thing
[14:54] <Laibsch> it seems to have changed
[14:54] <Laibsch> good bye
[14:55] <vish> Laibsch: ubuntu is still fun :)
[14:55] <Laibsch> nope
[14:55] <Laibsch> it's going in the wrong direction for quite a while
[14:55] <vish> Laibsch: your concern is valid , just bring it up when the bug masters are here as well
[14:56] <Laibsch> I'll leave that up to you
[14:56] <Laibsch> if it's a valid point, you should have an interest in fixing it
[14:56] <vish> Laibsch: each person changing the wiki to their own accord is not how it is done, we have a meeting on this tuesday , you can bring it up then as well
[14:57] <Laibsch> if the wiki is only changed after discussion, then I wonder who was asleep at the time this particular addition to the wiki was made
[14:57] <Laibsch> must have been a lot of people
[14:57] <Laibsch> meeting fatigue, I guess
[14:57] <Laibsch> from too many meetings
[14:58] <vish> Laibsch: the reason for the response is mainly every bug cannot be assigned by every triager , there needs to be help from the reporter too
[14:58] <Laibsch> absolutely agree
[14:58] <vish> Laibsch: they need to learn as well how to effectively report bugs
[14:58] <Laibsch> and I don't disagree about triaging ubuntu unassigned bugs
[14:58] <Laibsch> but the suggestion "you made a mistake not to pick a package" is offensive and damaging
[14:59] <Laibsch> no two ways about that IMHO
[14:59] <gorilla> vish: Ends users are rarely willing to do that and it's an uphill battle to attempt to do so.
[14:59] <vish> Laibsch: "you made a mistake" is not the wording there , but is close enough
[15:00] <vish> gorilla: reporting bugs is not easy ;)
[15:00] <Laibsch> another point I'll not budge on is that mass-comments to 800 or so bugs are ALWAYS going to do a lot of harm so should not be done.
[15:00] <Laibsch> especially from fresh personnel
[15:00] <penguin42> vish: It's not a mistake to not know which package something is due to
[15:00] <gorilla> vish: I know. I used to work in incident and problem management.
[15:00] <Laibsch> vish: the suggestion IS "you made a mistake", you even talked about "educatin" bug reporters
[15:01] <vish> Laibsch: yes, the reporter has to know about effective bug reporting..
[15:02] <penguin42> vish: That's a bit harsh for some stuff - for some stuff it's fine, but it's not an atuomatic
[15:02] <njin> this is the only reply to the more of 700 message that i sent : Too complicated, has no gui and I dont even know the package names.
[15:02] <vish> penguin42: i dint understand..?
[15:03] <njin> i just follow instrucyion
[15:03] <njin> I just paste what is in the wiki
[15:03] <penguin42> vish: There are some bug reports against Ubuntu where the bug reporter really thought about it and just doesn't know which package it should be in; some are bug reports are where people really were careless; where they were careless it's OK to tell them to use ubuntu-bug etc - but if they thought about it and it wasn't obvious what to do then it's up to a triager to think about it for them
[15:04] <Laibsch> njin: again, bug triage is not just "switch brain off, run scripts".  I had hoped you understood that by now. (not trying to come across as offensive, but it's important for me you understand this)
[15:04] <Laibsch> njin: I appreciate your effort to help out.
[15:04] <vish> penguin42: that is why we have "ubuntu" , to allow the reporter to just file it .. but some dont know that they have to file in the package..
[15:04] <njin> I think that the really problem is in the Launchpad interface that not guide the rreporter trow a initial triaging
[15:04] <penguin42> vish: Yes agreed
[15:04] <Laibsch> njin: but bug triage can only be done by understanding
[15:05] <Laibsch> njin: bug triage is NOT about closing the largest number of tickets
[15:05] <Laibsch> njin: bug triage is about fixing the largest number of bug
[15:05] <Laibsch> s
[15:05] <Laibsch> and that is a huge difference
[15:06] <vish> Laibsch: actually not fixing too ;) , its just getting the bugs to the right place with right info for a developer to start working
[15:06] <Laibsch> vish: why the nitpicking
[15:06] <Laibsch> ?
[15:06] <njin> no reply?
[15:06] <Laibsch> the ultimate goal is to fix the bug
[15:06] <Laibsch> fixing, not closing
[15:07] <Laibsch> closing is just a side product
[15:07] <njin> Launchpad is for expert user IMHO
[15:08] <njin> Laibsh: the system has made a mistake
[15:08] <Laibsch> ???
[15:08] <Laibsch> what system?
[15:08] <Laibsch> what mistake?
[15:09] <Laibsch> in this case, I'm sorry to say, you made the mistake (and your mentor)
[15:09] <njin> Laibsch: the system has made a mistake, and you are a part of it
[15:09] <Laibsch> WHAATT?
[15:09] <Laibsch> now, you're blaming me again?
[15:09] <Laibsch> I can't believe you still don't seem to understand
[15:09] <Laibsch> dunno what else to say
[15:10] <Laibsch> I hope that some day you will understand that "bug triage is not bots work"
[15:10] <Laibsch> really not that difficult to comprehend IMHO
[15:10] <vish> Laibsch: seriously , chill!
[15:10] <Laibsch> I guess I said what I can say
[15:10] <holstein> i belive the main concern is the 'This bug affects 1 person. Does this bug affect you?' part
[15:11] <Laibsch> holstein: we're long past one bug
[15:11] <holstein> if its not reproducable
[15:11] <holstein> anyone can change the status
[15:11] <holstein> if you dont like the state of the bug
[15:11] <njin> but in this condition i think that isn't right to tells s it evolution steps
[15:11] <holstein> dont 'agree'
[15:12] <vish> Laibsch: take a walk and relax ...its just a comment , how does it really hurt?
[15:12] <njin> ops *is right
[15:12] <holstein> also, thats a great thing about community projects
[15:13] <holstein> you can get involved, and become part of the solution
[15:13] <holstein> easily
[15:13] <njin> I suggest to change the Launchpad interface.
[15:13] <holstein> i find LP to be non-friendly
[15:13] <holstein> BUT i dont have a better suggestion
[15:13] <Laibsch> vish: I'm really sad to see that you also don't understand what's wrong about the system.  This is not about one bug
[15:14] <holstein> and it does do the job
[15:14] <Laibsch> This is about 800 bugs from one guy alone
[15:14] <penguin42> holstein: It's one of the least bad bug reporting systems I know of
[15:14] <Laibsch> and I assume many others
[15:14] <Laibsch> it's about processes
[15:14] <Laibsch> those concern me
[15:14] <holstein> penguin42: :)
[15:14] <njin> i'm lonely....
[15:15] <vish> Laibsch: he might have answered a lot of bugs , but he is trying to help , lets just encourage him in the right direction than take out our anger at him :)
[15:15] <njin> noone loves me here '
[15:15] <Laibsch> encourage him to do what he is doing? no
[15:15] <Laibsch> encourage him to learn to do better? yes
[15:15] <vish> njin: nah , ;)
[15:15] <njin> *?
[15:15] <penguin42> Laibsch: I think the best thing you've said however is that new bug triagers shouldn't do a lot of bugs in one go - they need to start slow
[15:15] <Laibsch> problem in this case, he was told to do what he did
[15:17] <penguin42> njin: Not everyone will like what you do to one of their bugs! However with experience you learn what people don't like
[15:19] <vish> njin: its part of triaging , sometime or the other everyone gets yelled at ;)
[15:19] <njin> Well we have a bug to solve or not ? can we open a summit ??
[15:20] <penguin42> anyway - which bug have we been arguing about?
[15:20] <Laibsch> penguin42: no bug in particular
[15:20] <holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/376485
[15:20] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 376485 in ubuntu ""Key stuck" after switching workspace in Gnome with Keyboard shortcut (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[15:21] <Laibsch> at least I've been arguing about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Bugs%20without%20a%20package
[15:21] <Laibsch> and the dangers of mass-commenting with the help of scripts
[15:22] <Laibsch> I can take care of my own bug
[15:22] <Laibsch> I would not have to come here to see it through
[15:22] <penguin42> holstein: Yes I agree - I wouldn't know what package that should be assigned to
[15:22] <vish> Laibsch: lets try this  , what would you edit it to : http://pastebin.com/ED48A30u  ?
[15:23] <penguin42> vish: That's a slightly different case - that says the triager has found an appropriate package for it
[15:24] <vish> penguin42: well , thats what Laibsch is trying to change!
[15:24] <vish> penguin42: what is needed here is to steer njin in the right direction
[15:24] <vish> oh njin left :s
[15:25] <penguin42> vish: It's different from Holstein's case - in that one the triager had told someone to use ubuntu-bug without figuring out the package either
[15:25] <vish> penguin42: yes, i can see that , but Laibsch is confusing the two cases
[15:25] <holstein> penguin42: thats Laibsch 's bug
[15:26] <vish> penguin42: the response is supposed to be used after assigning , but njin just used the reply :(
[15:26] <Laibsch> well, if the agree best process is for the triager to reassign the bug to a package, I'm OK with slipping in a helpful comment about how to report better bugs.  But that will take time from the triager and in that case, I'm not sure we even do need a template in the wiki.
[15:27] <vish> Laibsch: the reason we have  template is not everyone is well versed in english , so the templates help
[15:27] <Laibsch> nod
[15:27] <penguin42> vish: OK, so the wikipage needs changing to tell triagers only to use that text if they can figure out which package it should be
[15:28] <Laibsch> I'd also like to see a very visible comment at the top of that wiki page that warns about the danger of "switch brain off, run scripts on $gazillion tickets"
[15:28] <penguin42> vish: And as for that text, it could be friendlier - e.g. When reporting bugs in the future, please try and find the right package and if you can then use 'ubuntu-bug' and the name of the package affected.
[15:28] <Laibsch> wouldn't it be "if you can, then use ..."?
[15:29] <penguin42> oh I leave punctuation to others :-)
[15:29] <vish> ;p
[15:29] <Laibsch> well, sometimes it helps understanding ;-)
[15:29] <Laibsch> but I loathe English punctuation, too
[15:29] <njin> some people thanks me to pick up his bug
[15:30] <vish> njin is back! yay!
[15:30] <njin> i was disconnected
[15:31] <vish> njin: yes,comments are often both positive and negative , we need to take comments and see what needs to be changed in our methods
[15:31] <njin> i tell that the problem IMHO is ih launchpad interface
[15:31] <penguin42> njin: Why? What would you change?
[15:32] <njin> I think that it have to be more orientative, interactive
[15:33] <penguin42> njin: I'm not sure I understand?
[15:35] <njin> well, i want to report a bug but i don't know the package, the interface has to guide me in a first analisys of the problem asking if it is related to the computer, monitor, disck, keyboard,ecc , to take a first analisys
[15:35] <vish> njin: assigning bugs to a package is not a very easy task, if you doubt the package , try to think of the closest one you can get to and just assign it and a reply as to why you think it is assigned so , if wrong it can be changed later
[15:35] <penguin42> ah, having launchpad work through package finding - that wouldn't be a bad idea - although it's not always possible to identify the package that easily
[15:37] <vish> njin: also , if in doubt just ask your mentor which would be the right one.
[15:37] <njin> ok
[15:41] <njin> vish: in conclusion, can i go on with the work that my mentor assign me, sending the other 150 messages or not or is better wait .
[15:42] <vish> njin: keep doing the triage , just read the bugs and assign to the closest package you can think and make the comment..
[15:43] <penguin42> njin: It's also OK if you really don't know what to assign a particular bug to - just move on to the next one
[15:45] <njin> but the problem is in assigning package or in the bad responses, i don't understand
[15:46] <vish> njin: the problem is that you dint assign any package , the reporter obviously doesnt know either
[15:46] <penguin42> njin: If I understand correctly the 'Thank you for taking the time..' response was only meant for use after assigning the package
[15:52] <njin> but i cannot assign the package if the reporter's don't reply,  i mark as Incomplete, then i reply for next expiration then if nothig happends i have to mark as invalid
[15:52] <penguin42> njin: no
[15:52] <njin> these are old bugs, jaunty don't exist and people don't reply
[15:53] <penguin42> njin: I meant in the case of non-old bugs if it's just not assigned a package then you should try and assign a package
[15:53] <njin> yes, surely
[15:54] <njin> but they are 10-15 on 1000
[15:54] <penguin42> sorry, I don't understand that ?
[15:56] <njin> In this old bugs on 1000 bug reviewed there are 10  or 15 bug confirmable in Lucid too.
[15:57] <penguin42> njin: Old bugs are a separate question from ones without packages?
[15:57] <njin> rthis bug i triage.
[15:57] <njin> yes, old bugs without package assigned
[15:58] <njin> my works is this, review the old bugs, ask if reproducible in Lucid and in positive cases triage it
[15:59] <njin> *jaunty bugs
[15:59] <njin> But i cannot add the triaged option
[16:00] <njin> I can only confirm the bug
[16:01] <njin> penguin42: i'm connected?
[16:01] <penguin42> ok, hmm these are bugs that are both old and also not in a partiuclar package?
[16:02] <njin> noi, assigned to ubuntu
[16:02] <njin> *no
[16:03] <njin> ops * yes
[16:07] <njin> penguin42: at now i don't understand what is wrong in mine reply
[16:15] <stenten> How do I add another Ubuntu package to a bug report?
[16:16] <njin> can someone help with bug 368891
[16:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 368891 in ubuntu "Elan usb audio does not work (heat: 4)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368891
[16:19] <penguin42> there is an alsa pacakage (alsa-base ?)
[16:28] <njin> yes, he said: The device uses the snd-usb-audio driver and its detected by ALSA:
[16:29] <njin> penguin42: so i request an apport collect for alsa base ?
[16:30] <penguin42> njin: I'd first assign the package to alsa-base (I think that's the right one?) and then it it's probably right to ask for that (although I'm not sure what the right way to ask for that is)
[16:33] <stenten> Bah, can someone please fix my botched upsteaming for Bug 614176? It upstreamed to the Linux package instead of the xf86-video-intel package like it should have.
[16:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 614176 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[855gm] 2.6.35-14: Invisible Cursor (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 18)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614176
[16:33] <stenten> And I can't figure out how to fix it :(
[16:34] <penguin42> stenten: Yeh the same thing happened to me when I upstreamed something to fdo
[16:35] <stenten> I can't even remove it...
[16:35] <penguin42> stenten: Maybe a launchpad bug? Thing is some of the fdo bugs are kernel drm code, some are xorg
[16:36] <stenten> I'm just going to forward the duplicate, and then mark mine as a duplicate of that instead of the other way around.
[16:36] <stenten> Or should I just try forwarding it again?
[16:36] <penguin42> stenten: Well, it's actually a kernel bug, so I'm not sure it's that wrong, but to remove it click on the down arrow next to the Linux and change the remote watch button?
[16:36] <njin> penguin42: i think to assign it at linux-alsa -driver-modules
[16:37] <stenten> The edit button on the upstream tag sends me to edit the Ubuntu package :P
[16:37] <njin> it seems a driver issue, too problems
[16:37] <penguin42> njin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage#Sound  suggests it should go alsa-base
[16:41] <njin> penguin42 : yes, but in select source packages we don't find alsa-base
[16:41] <penguin42> are you sure? I'm sure I've seen bugs reported against it before
[16:42] <njin> penguin42: probably typed in the box, but i don't know if it is the right procedure
[16:45] <njin> penguin42: alsa-base is under alsa driver
[16:48] <njin> penguin42: but alsa driver is related at all the kernels ??
[16:49] <penguin42> njin: Alsa is the sound system in the kernel
[16:52] <njin> penguin: ok, then i assign to alsa-driver?
[16:53]  * penguin42 isn't sure
[16:53] <stanley_robertso> hi all
[16:58] <njin> penguin42: this bug still reproducible in Lucid, then i assign it to latest kernel version, becouse IMHO a module is not appropriate to this card, then assign to linux-alsa-driver-modules-2.6.32-10 or if updated to2.6.34-1
[16:59] <penguin42> njin: I'd just assign it to alsa-base
[17:00]  * penguin42 decides to go for a snooze
[17:26] <yofel> njin, penguin42: here's another page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems  - crimsun: there?
[17:32] <penguin42> yofel: Yeh and that says t o use ubuntu-bug on alsa-base - I think it collects most of the stuff those pages tell you to
[17:53] <njin> Pizza time.....
[17:54] <njin> nother reply : It was the latest upgrade but I had to downgrade it again because it didn't work with my old machine and I have no time to search the libraries I'm just an user
[17:55] <penguin42> njin: Old bugs are very difficult; for example I know some of my old bugs affect machines I no longer old - but the bugs might still exist
[17:56] <njin> yes, but i want to learn and difficult things capture my attention, i'm curious.
[17:57] <njin> my mentor there isn't again
[18:00] <yofel> njin: which bug?
[18:01] <stanley_robertso> hi penguin42
[18:01] <stanley_robertso> hi hggdh
[18:03] <njin> yofel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/388301
[18:03] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 388301 in ubuntu "package installer window can not be closed (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[18:04] <penguin42> Hi Stanley
[18:04] <yofel> o.O
[18:05]  * yofel goes reading the bug again because he doesn't get what the reporter is talking about...
[18:05] <penguin42> confusing isn't it
[18:07] <yofel> wait, comment #2 is talking about 5 different bugs right? (or 4 as the "multiple 9.04 OS" are just the different kernels I think)
[18:07] <njin> *njin is going to eat pizza because is afflicted and uncouraged. do not disturb for one hour. thanks
[18:07] <yofel> njin: the '* yofel does ..' is done with '/me ...' in IRC
[18:08] <hggdh> cheers stanley_robertso
[18:08] <hggdh> what? yofel does anything? ;-)
[18:08]  * yofel gets something to eat too, be back in a few minutes
[18:08] <yofel> hggdh: yep, having dinner :P
[18:09] <hggdh> good dinner for you, yofel :-)
[18:27] <vish> hggdh: all this while you had been silently smirking , wernt ya? ;)
[18:27] <vish> hggdh: read above ^ logs, would have been great if you had jumped in ;)
[18:27] <stanley_robertso> hi vish
[18:27] <vish> stanley_robertso: hey
[18:28] <stanley_robertso> last 2 weeks.. i got held up by my office project work .. got kinda free now :)  so jumped back to Ubuntu
[18:31] <hggdh> vish: reading the backlog
[18:34] <hggdh> for sound bugs, the best is to follow the debugging sound wiki page
[18:34] <hggdh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems
[18:46]  * nigelb waves to hggdh 
[19:00]  * hggdh waves back at nigelb
[19:00] <njin> *sometimes an icecream solve much problems than a pizza
[19:01] <nigelb> hggdh: hows it going? ts been a while :)
[19:02] <hggdh> nigelb: yes indeed! But life is good: I am alive, you are alive ;-)
[19:02] <hggdh> nigelb: going to the next UDS?
[19:02] <nigelb> hggdh: I'd better.  Chris Johnston and Mike Hall have promised to physically kick me if I don't
[19:03] <hggdh> and I will virtually do the same ;-)
[19:04] <nigelb> hggdh: take a number and stand in line. :D
[19:04] <nigelb> Far too many violent people these days :p
[19:04] <hggdh> :-)
[19:05] <hggdh> I am not violent, not at all. Kicking you for not being at UDS is not violence, it is just the Right Thing To Do
[19:05] <nigelb> Right Things To Do (tm)
[19:06] <njin> another insatisfact people that greetings me to look at his bug: I was a little bit disappointed  that no one answered my error report - I know it was not the most dangerous problem...
[19:11] <hggdh> njin: what problem?
[19:14] <njin> At now i don't understand, i was victim of somethigs much greater than me, wounded in my pride to help the community. So if you want to know more take a look at the log
[19:15] <hggdh> njin: which log?
[19:15] <njin> of the chan
[19:15] <nigelb> njin: it happens all the time.
[19:16] <nigelb> Though its nice that it didn't happen ona  bug report per se
[19:16] <nigelb> I got kicked on a bug report :/
[19:16] <njin> :)
[19:18] <nigelb> something like "ubuntu sucks and you're the reason" types
[19:18] <njin> i go to work on my old bugs without package assigned remembering to use half comment and in the hope that my mentor don't kick me.
[19:20] <hggdh> njin: I read the backlog, and I am still unsure of which bug you are talking about. Can you please clarify?
[19:21] <njin> no ,back again there was a flame not a bug
[19:22] <hggdh> njin: OK. Now please do point me to the issue. I want to know, flaming is not expected here
[19:24] <njin> well. i'm assigned to old bug without package assigned (bug regarding jaunty)and becouse this bug are generally reported by one person i send to him if the bug still reproducible in Lucid packages.
[19:25] <hggdh> njin: OK, so far, so good. And?
[19:27] <njin> I've sent more than 800 of this request, but yesterday, my mentor tell me to add the response of bug without package of the wiki, and i do it, but someone is not in accord
[19:30] <njin> he said that the wiky is not right and so on , i made a lot of work with the convinction of doing a good help and i'm treated like an irresponsable, this hurts me and without explication
[19:30] <njin> vish can clarify better tha me
[19:31] <njin> I go to my bug
[19:31] <njin> *bugs
[19:32] <vish> hggdh: started : http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/07/%23ubuntu-bugs.html#t14:22
[19:33] <atrus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/372149 uhm, is this a good idea? .exe executables in attachements?
[19:33] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 372149 in file-roller (Ubuntu) "archive manager can not open reports zip file missing (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 9)" [Low,Incomplete]
[19:35] <vish> hggdh: its mostly about njin just asking the reporter on bugs to file bugs using ubuntu-bugs or to assign package , but Laibsch got furious with that comment and wanted it to be changed from the bug squad wiki
[19:36] <hggdh> njin: oh boy. Really not needed.
[19:37] <hggdh> njin: (1) bugs should *not* be left as affecting the Ubuntu package. Saying so is the same as saying "it affects something, I do not know what, and I do not really care"
[19:38] <hggdh> (2) assigning a (more) correct package is the way to go. If the assigned package is wrong, we then correct as needed
[19:39] <hggdh> (3) *even* if you were to be wrong, you can learn. We all started not knowing, and learned.
[19:39] <hggdh> (4) please do not take it that hard
[19:40] <njin> hggdh: yes, but i'm treating bugs regarding jaunty, and when i have a reply in most cases it tells that the bug is fixed
[19:40] <vish> njin: everyone *has* to get yelled at by the original reporter at some point! ;)  else they are not doing triage :p
[19:40] <hggdh> njin: which is PERFECT!
[19:40] <hggdh> and means you are doiong a good job
[19:40] <njin> but in the other lot of cases what i have to do ' assign a package without a reply from the reporter?
[19:41] <hggdh> njin: you make a best bet, bsed on what you can find from the bug description. If there are more than one issue reported in one single bug,
[19:42] <atrus> is it normal for launchpad to be able to store .exe attachements, and download them without warning? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/372149 seems kind of dangerous, if not in that particular case, then just in general that it's possible.
[19:42] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 372149 in file-roller (Ubuntu) "archive manager can not open reports zip file missing (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 9)" [Low,Incomplete]
[19:42] <hggdh> njin: you select one -- what you consider the most serious -- and assign the package to the bug & tell the OP it is one issue per bug, one bug per issue
[19:43] <hggdh> atrus: they are attachments. None get downloaded unless you ask for it
[19:43] <hggdh> a .exe has no meaning on Linux, anyways
[19:43] <atrus> hggdh: yes, but in general that's dangerous. say, if an ubuntu user is looking for support while on windows... just makes me a little nervous.
[19:45] <atrus> i don't know what that .exe is, but launchpad could relatively easily be used to distribute harmful executables this way. a similar problem hit a big theme site a while ago.
[19:45] <atrus> maybe this is more appropriate for #launchpad anyways
[19:45] <vish> atrus: arent we being chicken little here? ;)
[19:46] <atrus> vish: given this kind of vulnerability has been exploited in other FOSS projects recently, i'd say it's realistic.
[19:46] <vish> atrus: if harmful .exe is found on lp , the most appropriate thing would to just delete the attachment
[19:47] <vish> would be* to
[19:47]  * hggdh is not sure what RE.EXE -- an MS-DOS binary -- has to do with file-roller
[19:48] <hggdh> njin: please keep on what you are doing, you are doing a good job
[19:48] <hggdh> and disregard Laibsch's comments
[19:49] <njin> ok now i'm analizing replies
[19:49] <hggdh> atrus: in general, downloading *anything* from the Internet is dangerous. I fail to see why a possible virus/trojan/whatever for Windows would be a problem here
[19:50] <penguin42> it seems reasonable that it could well be an honest report
[19:50] <hggdh> indeed
[19:50]  * penguin42 is assuming the .exe is  a self extracting zip
[19:50] <hggdh> but I still fail to see why a MS-DOS binary would be a problem for file-roller
[19:50] <hggdh> penguin42: no, it does not seem to be
[19:50] <penguin42> oh
[19:51] <hggdh> hum
[19:52] <hggdh> maybe the issue is that there is a MIME set for .EXE -> file-roller
[19:52] <njin> this is too hard for me: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/372430
[19:52] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 372430 in linux (Ubuntu) "After fsck failure, maintenance shell asks for root password (affects: 7) (heat: 38)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[19:53] <penguin42> njin: That sounds like a real bug
[19:53] <penguin42> njin: It's not easy to test though
[19:54] <njin> penguin42: and i cannot ask him the exact step to reproduce it
[19:54] <penguin42> njin: Well the exact steps are pretty easy; 1) Have a broken fileystsem 2) Boot
[19:54] <hggdh> yes. It seems the root FS is hosed, so there is no access to /etc/sudoers, etc. Maybe the best would be to reboot in recovery mode
[19:54] <penguin42> hggdh: No, that's not the problem
[19:55] <hggdh> penguin42: this is *part* of the problem. No root FS
[19:55] <penguin42> hggdh: No, there *is* a root fs - thats where it would take the root password from
[19:55] <penguin42> hggdh: The filesystem just isn't fsck'd and is suspected to be dogy - the problem is that Ubuntu doesn't generally have a root user/password
[19:56] <hggdh> penguin42: yes. This is where the recover mode boot option comes into play. It will *not* ask for the root password
[19:56] <njin> In alternate install expert mode if i don't wrong there is this option
[19:57] <hggdh> njin: as long as you have not set a root passwd: boot, select the recovery mode on Grub, then select a root console
[19:58] <hggdh> alternate install is also an option, but you should first see if you can still use/recover the root FS
[19:58] <penguin42> hggdh: Ah, was that around on 8.10?
[19:58] <hggdh> penguin42: heh. I do not remember, but I think so
[19:59] <penguin42> hggdh: OK, so a fair argument should be that it should tell you to use recovery mode
[20:01]  * penguin42 could probably trigger the bug in a VM just to try it
[20:01] <njin> ok, i remark as new then ?
[20:02] <penguin42> njin: Just give me a few minutes - I'll try and trigger it in a VM
[20:02] <njin> so rapid ?
[20:02] <penguin42> well, we'll see!
[20:10] <penguin42> njin: Well, I seem to have triggered a different bug :-(
[20:10] <hggdh> heh. The beaties of triaging...
[20:10] <penguin42> actually 2 bugs
[20:10] <nigelb> penguin42: heh.
[20:10] <njin> 2 bug from one '
[20:11] <nigelb> 3 including the one he was trying to trigger
[20:11] <penguin42> I'm trying it on a Maverick Alpha 2 and I added into fstab  the line    /dev/frob /frob ext3 default 1 2
[20:11] <njin> LOl
[20:12] <penguin42> I expected it to fail with a can't fsck /dev/frob
[20:13] <penguin42> but I think mountall has got in the way
[20:16]  * penguin42 wonders whether mountall will eventually give up or whether it will stay hung (which would be another bug)
[20:19] <njin> too much bug
[20:19] <njin> My maverick works well
[20:42] <penguin42> njin: I don't know, but I think the old root password stuff is gone in maverick with mountall (Not sure about lucid) - although based on my present experience mountall is much much more broken than that
[20:44] <njin> maverick is not complete at now, the freeze is from some days
[20:45] <penguin42> indeed
[20:54]  * penguin42 confirms bug 563418 that mountall doesn't do anything sane on broken fstab
[20:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 563418 in mountall (Ubuntu) "Wrong filesystem line in /etc/fstab, no error message on bootscreen (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563418
[20:58]  * Laibsch is disappointed to learn from the backlog that instead of taking the opportunity to learn he is taking things personal
[21:00] <Laibsch> wtf
[21:00] <Laibsch> I should stop caring about bug triage in Ubuntu
[21:00] <Laibsch> I'm not involved enough to care
[21:13] <yofel> penguin42: actually, if it's 'hung' plymouth should tell you something like "Can't mount $partition [S]kip [M]ainenance shell <and something else I think>'
[21:14] <yofel> if you don't have splash enabled then it won't ask you that bug S/M should still work (there was a but about the missing notification)
[21:14] <yofel> *but S/M
[21:28] <penguin42> yofel: Yeh, as I say from that absolutely no diag
[21:28] <yofel> err, right, got distracted and skipped a few lines reading the backlog -.-
[21:29] <penguin42> yofel: Actually, this is bug 563916
[21:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 563916 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 4 other projects) "[details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot (affects: 18) (dups: 1) (heat: 108)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563916
[21:38] <penguin42> yofel: So is there nothing any more that asks for a password - does  it always let you do S/M ?
[21:40] <yofel> actually I don't know, last time I got a maintenance shell on lucid I think it did ask for a password, I think roots but I'm not sure
[21:40] <yofel> that was like lucid alpha2 - haven't had the need for a shell since then
[21:45] <penguin42> yofel: If you have a root password set it will ask for it
[21:46] <yofel> ah, I have one set actually
[22:13] <njin> I go to sleep, good night to everybody, here are 23.13 see you tomorrow.
[23:07] <hggdh> for the record, I slightly changed the bugs-without-a-package response
[23:22] <penguin42> what to?