[00:12] i think 607320 can be marked as wishlist [00:12] https://192.168.10.22:8443/agility/AgilityFactory.jsp === darran is now known as drizzle [00:13] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-disk-utility/+bug/607320 [00:13] Ubuntu bug 607320 in gnome-disk-utility (Ubuntu) "Disk Utility lacks door lock/unlock button for CD/DVD drives (affects: 1) (heat: 256)" [Undecided,New] [00:13] thats the correct link [00:52] hggdh: still around, I have a couple minutes [00:53] can someone dad 607320 to wishlist? [00:53] bug 607320 [00:53] Launchpad bug 607320 in gnome-disk-utility (Ubuntu) "Disk Utility lacks door lock/unlock button for CD/DVD drives (affects: 1) (heat: 256)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607320 [00:53] also 369695 needs to be forwarded upstream i think [00:54] drizzle: bug 607320 should probably be upstreamed [00:54] i dont think i can do that [00:56] * micahg isn't sure if it belongs there [00:56] bug 369695 [00:56] Launchpad bug 369695 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "login to msn takes 4-5 tries (affects: 1) (heat: 7)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369695 [00:56] drizzle: wishlist done [00:57] drizzle: I think it might be a dupe [00:57] k [00:57] ill look [00:57] drizzle: 369695 that is [00:57] drizzle: also, FYI, pidgin devs don't want reports unless they're tested against the latest code [00:58] k [00:58] s/code/release [00:58] drizzle: but you can always check upstream for an open issue [00:58] maybe ill e-mail the reporter and see if hes still experiencing it [00:58] still cant believe ubuntu dropped pidgin for empathy [00:58] no worries - not the place [00:58] drizzle: just gnome, xubuntu still has it as default [01:04] i think 614609 is going to be either a question or a wishlist [01:06] bug 614609 [01:06] Launchpad bug 614609 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "I have some comments on recovery mode friendly-recovery (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614609 [01:06] i think what hes talking about is using the kernel recovery mode to fix broken packages [01:06] and there isn't an internet connection [01:07] * micahg doesn't know about that package so deferring to someone else [01:08] micahg: still there? [01:08] hggdh: yeah [01:09] hggdh: so, first, apport retracers aren't enabled for hardy/jaunty [01:09] hggdh: second, what if people forget how to turn off crash reporting and don't want apport to pop up [01:09] hum [01:10] well, they are not enabled either for Lucid, are they? [01:10] hggdh: yes, karmic, lucid, maverick [01:10] oh, this is news to me. I guess one of the things I do not get to see, since I am always running the latest [01:10] but I think I see where you are going [01:11] hggdh: it was news to me as well when I found out [01:11] we should have an easy way of enabling/disabling [01:11] hggdh: we have that :) [01:11] nope [01:11] sudo service apport start force_start=1 [01:11] we have a way that requires console access [01:11] and there is no automagic disabling [01:12] with that method there is, on reboot, it goes off [01:12] like, say, after a certain crash, or after a while [01:12] yes, but still needs console access. I would like to have it done under X also (so that a casual user could set it up/unset it [01:13] micahg: let's say I want to report a crash of (shudder) Evolution [01:13] so I should be able to enable it for evolution *only* [01:14] what wse do now will either enable forever for all crashes, or just until reboot [01:15] too abrangent/restrictive (wow, both at the same time!) [01:16] micahg [01:16] hggdh: sounds like a feature request [01:17] i am thinking 614609 is wishlist / featurerequest [01:17] bug 614609 [01:17] Launchpad bug 614609 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "I have some comments on recovery mode friendly-recovery (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614609 [01:17] drizzle: I deferred since I'm unfamiliar with the app [01:17] maybe hggdh can help [01:18] what does defer mean [01:19] are you saying ask someone? [01:19] else [01:19] drizzle: like me ;-) [01:19] hggdh [01:19] do you want o look at it [01:19] ? [01:19] looking [01:21] drizzle: sigh. Although all referring to friendly-recovery, there are 3 different things there. No matter what, it is one issue per bug, one bug per issue... [01:22] drizzle: but all are indeed feature requests, so your comment applies. [01:22] I will set them as wishlist [01:22] there are three different things [01:22] and i think his english is not that good [01:23] drizzle: well, not really unexpected. Ubuntu is used all over the world, so you will get bad English [01:23] it is part of our job to make sense off badly-written English ;-) [01:26] drizzle: done [01:27] drizzle: and 'defer' mean to put off, to let somebody else make a decision [01:27] k no worries [01:28] drizzle: and thank you for helping ;-) [01:39] anyone here? [01:39] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tzdata/+bug/599466 is an upstream bug already reported in debian [01:39] Ubuntu bug 599466 in tzdata (Ubuntu) "tzdata refers to Americas as "America" (affects: 1) (heat: 97)" [Undecided,New] [01:39] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=508118 [01:39] Debian bug 508118 in tzdata "Incorrect term for Americas" [Minor,Open] [01:41] drizzle: Also affects Distro, select debian and add tzdata as the package w/the link [01:41] drizzle: good. You can, then, add an upstream link to the bug [01:41] ok [01:41] im sorry [01:41] but how do i do this [01:41] im looking at the ubuntu bug [01:41] drizzle: select "Also affects distribution", then select Debian, and add the link there [01:41] ok i did that [01:41] ok [01:41] done [01:42] now i see [01:42] the screen has a lot of stuff on it [01:42] yes. Make sure you select Debian [01:42] i id [01:42] did [01:42] can i confirm it [01:42] i confirmed it in ubuntu [01:43] perfect. I will set it as Triaged [01:44] * micahg is off [01:44] done [01:46] * hggdh is now officially on Saturday [01:46] ok [01:46] there are a few tzdata bugs [01:46] that are upstream [04:15] hi all [04:36] hi stanley_robertso === rackIT is now known as rackIT_AFK [07:38] hi kermiac === jmarsden_ is now known as jmarsden [09:29] hi folks [09:30] i'm hitting a nasty bug on ubuntu 10.04 netbook edition and would like to submit a report (my first) [09:31] i'd appreciate some help on how to collect information for the report [09:33] basically, i'm hitting a hang in the user interface, this occurs intermittently [09:33] renier1: what is the bug? what symptoms? [09:33] by hang i mean, i've got mouse movement, but mouse clicks don't respond at all [09:33] stanley_robertso: heya! [09:33] prtscr works [09:34] and i can switch to console mode with CTRL-ALT-F1 [09:34] can't switch between apps (this usually occurs while browsing with either chrome or firefox) [09:34] renier1: have a read of the following: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs [09:35] thanks gorilla, i will check it out [09:35] renier1: hang , and it does not respond or takes a very long time to respond? [09:35] hangs* [09:36] vish, it does not respond, within 5-10 minutes. i've not left it any longer [09:37] it's been happened about 5times in the past 2-3weeks, never happened before [09:38] i've installed all the automatic updates that the system suggested during that time, which leads me to suspect it's a new bug [09:39] renier1: hmm , its probably something related to you graphics drivers , try checking launchpad for existing bugs [09:39] i will do, thanks vish [09:40] i'm from a solaris background, so my first inclination is to collect a crash dump for analysis [09:40] is there an easy way to do this on ubuntu? [09:40] ubuntu-bug packagename [09:41] JoshuaL, my problem is that it's not easily apparent in which package the bug lives [09:41] ah [09:42] the problem has occurred while using different browsers, and impacts the entire user interface [09:42] for reference the graphics driver: [09:42] VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express Integrated Graphics Controller [09:43] so, when i speak of crash dump i mean a dump of the entire os for post mortem analysis [09:45] thanks for the help. i will check launchpad for existing bugs and log a placeholder bug describing the symptoms the next time the problem occurs [09:47] good luck finding the bug :) [09:47] thanks :) [10:00] hah, found the following which helps a lot: [10:00] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze === yofel_ is now known as yofel [11:03] hello all [11:04] is there a known problem with launchpad? i keep getting timeout errors [11:04] that is somewhat of a known problem -.- [11:05] thank you [11:05] guzu: btw, it would be best if you could use ubuntu-bug on the affected notebook as that will add some information about the system to the bug [11:05] yofel, i'm just installing maverick on it [11:06] ah, well, then see if it works there and add that information to the bug [11:06] ok [11:07] same thing, it freezes [11:25] yofel, unfortunately, the timeout occurs from apport, too. i'll just give up [11:31] devildante: hi, did you ping mvo to review your update manager branch? [11:31] vish: not yet [11:31] vish: but I saw what you did with the bug reports, thx :) [11:31] devildante: rigtho , we need to do that before UIF [11:32] devildante: np .. ;) [11:32] vish: not before FeatureFreeze? [11:32] devildante: oh , even better :) [11:33] vish: argh, mvo isn't here [11:33] yet [11:33] devildante: weekened ;) he'll be back on Mon [11:33] vish: oh, okay [11:37] vish: should I make mvo the reviewer for my branches? [11:37] devildante: yeah , add him [11:37] vish: okay, thx [11:41] vish: all done :) [11:42] devildante: neat , thanks! :) [11:42] vish: np :) [11:43] vish: shouldn't we be discussing about this on #ubuntu-desktop in the future? [11:43] devildante: meh ;p [11:43] devildante: it is related to bugs though ;) [11:44] vish: true [14:22] and another recent member of the BugSquad that instead of doing useful work creates more [14:22] https://launchpad.net/~fabiomarconi [14:22] bRoas [14:23] who is granting these kinds of privileges? Is there a lottery or do people actually have to show they know what they are doing? Is anybody actually watching what they are doing? [14:23] BUGabundo: was that an answer to my question? [14:23] hm, no, I guess [14:23] hadn't asked the question, yet ;-) [14:25] correct [14:25] but I think its 42! [14:25] Laibsch: member of bug squad? [14:25] nigelb: Fabio is a member of bug squad since about two weeks [14:25] if so, there is no previledges granted. anyone can do stuff. if you have a problem with somone's work, raise it with him/her via email. [14:26] all we care for joining bug squad is CoC and agreed to have read triage guide. [14:26] He's like the fourth guy who as a recent bugsquad member is overeager and doing harm instead of helping [14:26] bug 376485 is what I know, I'm sure he sent out a batch of those [14:26] Laibsch: I'd say talk to him because I've done some nasty stuff when I started out too :D [14:26] Launchpad bug 376485 in ubuntu ""Key stuck" after switching workspace in Gnome with Keyboard shortcut (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/376485 [14:27] nigelb: is that so? My apologies, then. I thought it came with elevated priviledges? Is that not the case? [14:28] Laibsch: Only bug control comes with elevated previleges. [14:28] sorry, it's "bug control" that grants the privs, right? [14:28] OK [14:28] sorry, my misunderstanding [14:28] ordinary guy, then [14:28] Also, the bug reprter was rude to someone who's trying to help. [14:28] sorry for the noise [14:29] njin: ^ [14:29] Laibsch: talk to njin, that's his irc nick. [14:30] nigelb: tell me [14:31] njin: please stop comments like "When reporting bugs in the future please use apport by using 'ubuntu-bug' and the name of the package affected." [14:31] that is not helping, it's alienating [14:32] people may have good reasons (and did have good reasons in this case) for not choosing a package [14:32] the pointer to ubuntu-bug is OK [14:33] Just to add to that, if you can figure out the package, you should change it and then give this comment. [14:33] the suggestion that unspecified bug reports are not welcome is not [14:33] I'm just using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Bugs%20without%20a%20package [14:33] nigelb: nod [14:33] maybe the wiki needs to be changed, then [14:33] let me see [14:33] I'm just a bot... [14:34] njin: that is dangerous [14:34] ;) [14:34] and the impression I got [14:34] if bug triage was bots work, we'd use bots, I guess [14:35] mass comments are dangerous [14:35] I'm not talking serioussly [14:35] I *am* [14:35] please take the work seriuosly [14:37] Laibsch: my mentor teel me to add this at every reply of mine old bug without package assigned. [14:38] and because i send 800 request, now i have to send 800 of this reply. [14:39] AAARGGHH [14:39] Who is your mentor? [14:39] nigelb: 800!!! [14:39] Laibsch: what iI have to do, to go on or to stop me. [14:39] what you did is done [14:40] please don't continue with this particular type of comment [14:40] do you understand where the problem is? [14:40] please also tell me who your sponsor is [14:40] I think he needs some update, too [14:41] njin: ? [14:41] Laibsch: I'll take care of it. [14:42] OK [14:42] I think the bigger problem is sending out 800 comments like that [14:42] nobody can look at 800 bugs [14:42] Laibsch: could you mention , what is exactly wrong with that comment? [14:43] sending out comments to bugs and snippets of texts without even a short look is not good (unless in very few circumstances) [14:43] vish: you're the mentor? [14:43] or just curious? [14:43] Laibsch: no , but you assume the mentor has less knowledge about bugs [14:43] I don't [14:44] but he certainly is overlooking a problem [14:44] Excuse me, the majority of these 800 bugs are reported by one person and probably due to hardware issue in most cases not reproducible [14:44] Laibsch: btw, are you the bug reporter? [14:44] yes [14:44] the problem is that although nigelb or anybody else using that snippet may come across to the OP as having some kind of official position [14:44] Laibsch: first , no need for that offensive response , njin is just trying to help [14:45] and people may not know what package a bug is in [14:45] from these 800 bugs i've recived no more than 100 reply, majority say that the problem is fixed [14:45] in that case assigning against ubuntu is the best thing to do, IMHO [14:45] if njin had actually read the ticket he would have seen the efforts to determine what package the bug is in [14:45] Laibsch: that doesnt make the response wrong? it does need to be assigned to a package for a report to be taken care of by a developer [14:46] Laibsch: bugs in ubuntu are just a black hole ... they need to be assigned before any progress can take place [14:46] vish: the response is not offensive. It's factual. Plus the snippet is useless and harmful. [14:46] vish: then the triager should help doing that [14:46] otherwise it's useless and harmful [14:47] bots work [14:47] triage is not bots work [14:47] look at the ticket and you will see that I did quite a lot to find out whether it is a kernel or Xorg bug [14:47] Laibsch: yes , agreed bout that , but the triager doesnt seem to know about the package either. so not need to be rude there ;) [14:47] I'm not rude [14:48] Laibsch: It came across somewhere between frustrated and rude [14:48] and the "the triager is using his free time" is not a valid response IMHO [14:48] the OP or any other reporter is also using his free time [14:48] Laibsch: well, #5 is a bit rude, njin is new , that is not really a good way to treat new contributors [14:49] you guys only see the perspective of people trying to help you [14:49] I appreciate people trying to help triage [14:49] but you guys seem to forget that unless people report bugs, you've got nothing to work on [14:50] Laibsch: i can see your frustration too :) , but such a response can be a bit scary for a new triager [14:50] why did Ubuntu rightfully start "please reopen if this is still a problem" type of comment? to make [14:50] answer: to make sure people are not alienated [14:51] I just want to tell that i just made my third session of mentoring [14:51] vish: I am of the opinion that new triagers should not work on more than maybe 10 bugs a day [14:51] or something like that [14:51] certainly not 800 [14:51] I've seen exactly this type of problem at least 4-5 times before [14:51] it's scary that even the wiki and mentors are now encouraging mass-comments without actually looking [14:52] * Laibsch is off to the wiki [14:52] but this isn't mass comment. [14:52] Laibsch: dont edit wiki's without discussing here [14:52] Laibsch: can you suggest how we can handle such bugs better? [14:52] this are just request of confirmation of the existing of the bug in the new version [14:52] I think it's easiest for me to make the change and then point to it here [14:53] njin: the first comment is OK [14:53] after a year or so [14:53] I don't have issue with that one [14:53] Laibsch: no , the wiki is a guideline and not to be altered without prior discussion [14:54] Laibsch: and any changes to the wiki are sent out to the whole bug squad [14:54] OK [14:54] whatever, then [14:54] do as you please [14:54] Ubuntu used to be fun [14:54] used to do the right thing [14:54] it seems to have changed [14:54] good bye [14:55] Laibsch: ubuntu is still fun :) [14:55] nope [14:55] it's going in the wrong direction for quite a while [14:55] Laibsch: your concern is valid , just bring it up when the bug masters are here as well [14:56] I'll leave that up to you [14:56] if it's a valid point, you should have an interest in fixing it [14:56] Laibsch: each person changing the wiki to their own accord is not how it is done, we have a meeting on this tuesday , you can bring it up then as well [14:57] if the wiki is only changed after discussion, then I wonder who was asleep at the time this particular addition to the wiki was made [14:57] must have been a lot of people [14:57] meeting fatigue, I guess [14:57] from too many meetings [14:58] Laibsch: the reason for the response is mainly every bug cannot be assigned by every triager , there needs to be help from the reporter too [14:58] absolutely agree [14:58] Laibsch: they need to learn as well how to effectively report bugs [14:58] and I don't disagree about triaging ubuntu unassigned bugs [14:58] but the suggestion "you made a mistake not to pick a package" is offensive and damaging [14:59] no two ways about that IMHO [14:59] vish: Ends users are rarely willing to do that and it's an uphill battle to attempt to do so. [14:59] Laibsch: "you made a mistake" is not the wording there , but is close enough [15:00] gorilla: reporting bugs is not easy ;) [15:00] another point I'll not budge on is that mass-comments to 800 or so bugs are ALWAYS going to do a lot of harm so should not be done. [15:00] especially from fresh personnel [15:00] vish: It's not a mistake to not know which package something is due to [15:00] vish: I know. I used to work in incident and problem management. [15:00] vish: the suggestion IS "you made a mistake", you even talked about "educatin" bug reporters [15:01] Laibsch: yes, the reporter has to know about effective bug reporting.. [15:02] vish: That's a bit harsh for some stuff - for some stuff it's fine, but it's not an atuomatic [15:02] this is the only reply to the more of 700 message that i sent : Too complicated, has no gui and I dont even know the package names. [15:02] penguin42: i dint understand..? [15:03] i just follow instrucyion [15:03] I just paste what is in the wiki [15:03] vish: There are some bug reports against Ubuntu where the bug reporter really thought about it and just doesn't know which package it should be in; some are bug reports are where people really were careless; where they were careless it's OK to tell them to use ubuntu-bug etc - but if they thought about it and it wasn't obvious what to do then it's up to a triager to think about it for them [15:04] njin: again, bug triage is not just "switch brain off, run scripts". I had hoped you understood that by now. (not trying to come across as offensive, but it's important for me you understand this) [15:04] njin: I appreciate your effort to help out. [15:04] penguin42: that is why we have "ubuntu" , to allow the reporter to just file it .. but some dont know that they have to file in the package.. [15:04] I think that the really problem is in the Launchpad interface that not guide the rreporter trow a initial triaging [15:04] vish: Yes agreed [15:04] njin: but bug triage can only be done by understanding [15:05] njin: bug triage is NOT about closing the largest number of tickets [15:05] njin: bug triage is about fixing the largest number of bug [15:05] s [15:05] and that is a huge difference [15:06] Laibsch: actually not fixing too ;) , its just getting the bugs to the right place with right info for a developer to start working [15:06] vish: why the nitpicking [15:06] ? [15:06] no reply? [15:06] the ultimate goal is to fix the bug [15:06] fixing, not closing [15:07] closing is just a side product [15:07] Launchpad is for expert user IMHO [15:08] Laibsh: the system has made a mistake [15:08] ??? [15:08] what system? [15:08] what mistake? [15:09] in this case, I'm sorry to say, you made the mistake (and your mentor) [15:09] Laibsch: the system has made a mistake, and you are a part of it [15:09] WHAATT? [15:09] now, you're blaming me again? [15:09] I can't believe you still don't seem to understand [15:09] dunno what else to say [15:10] I hope that some day you will understand that "bug triage is not bots work" [15:10] really not that difficult to comprehend IMHO [15:10] Laibsch: seriously , chill! [15:10] I guess I said what I can say [15:10] i belive the main concern is the 'This bug affects 1 person. Does this bug affect you?' part [15:11] holstein: we're long past one bug [15:11] if its not reproducable [15:11] anyone can change the status [15:11] if you dont like the state of the bug [15:11] but in this condition i think that isn't right to tells s it evolution steps [15:11] dont 'agree' [15:12] Laibsch: take a walk and relax ...its just a comment , how does it really hurt? [15:12] ops *is right [15:12] also, thats a great thing about community projects [15:13] you can get involved, and become part of the solution [15:13] easily [15:13] I suggest to change the Launchpad interface. [15:13] i find LP to be non-friendly [15:13] BUT i dont have a better suggestion [15:13] vish: I'm really sad to see that you also don't understand what's wrong about the system. This is not about one bug [15:14] and it does do the job [15:14] This is about 800 bugs from one guy alone [15:14] holstein: It's one of the least bad bug reporting systems I know of [15:14] and I assume many others [15:14] it's about processes [15:14] those concern me [15:14] penguin42: :) [15:14] i'm lonely.... [15:15] Laibsch: he might have answered a lot of bugs , but he is trying to help , lets just encourage him in the right direction than take out our anger at him :) [15:15] noone loves me here ' [15:15] encourage him to do what he is doing? no [15:15] encourage him to learn to do better? yes [15:15] njin: nah , ;) [15:15] *? [15:15] Laibsch: I think the best thing you've said however is that new bug triagers shouldn't do a lot of bugs in one go - they need to start slow [15:15] problem in this case, he was told to do what he did [15:17] njin: Not everyone will like what you do to one of their bugs! However with experience you learn what people don't like [15:19] njin: its part of triaging , sometime or the other everyone gets yelled at ;) [15:19] Well we have a bug to solve or not ? can we open a summit ?? [15:20] anyway - which bug have we been arguing about? [15:20] penguin42: no bug in particular [15:20] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/376485 [15:20] Ubuntu bug 376485 in ubuntu ""Key stuck" after switching workspace in Gnome with Keyboard shortcut (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Incomplete] [15:21]