=== Zeike is now known as brandonj [08:12] good morning! [08:16] morning [08:22] hello team [08:22] what about giving the table of contents on the website? [08:22] so that people can know what is there in the book [08:30] shrini: ideally we would have the entire content online [08:30] that too great [08:31] but currently the worry is about bringing out the next version at all [08:33] thorwil: yes [08:33] hey [08:34] humphreybc: so how much fan mail did you receive since your infamous communication disaster disguised as blog post? [08:35] s/infamous/ / [08:35] thorwil: he'll survive ;) [08:39] I just added some stuff here [08:39] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/baZkHCQiMu [08:39] grr , why does my xchat not open links! [08:39] thorwil: I got a few more twitter followers and OMG! Ubunu! gained a lot more page views and subscribers, if that's what you mean? :P [08:40] humphreybc: ha! so it was a marketing strategy from the start! ;) [08:41] every time i'm having to select open link in browser :/ , damn you xchat! [08:41] great, the masses are even dumber than i thought, then [08:41] lol [08:42] right [08:42] so now I'm going to make a pretty infographic that should outline our plans and timeline [08:49] nice e-mail godbyk [08:50] ChrisWoollard: Thanks. [08:50] Just in case I can't make the meeting. :) [08:52] I see thorwil's been proofreading the notes on the pad. ;-) [08:52] i can't help it! [08:52] Just couldn't refrain, could you, thorwil! [08:58] It's always nice when information is shared. It helps people to know what is going on and where we are at :) [08:59] This seems to be a good time of day. Lots of people are around. [09:01] does anyone know how the quickshot guys are going? [09:03] humphreybc: i vaguely recall that flan has other worries, currently, but hopes to get at it again, soonish [09:03] Has anything happened with the maverick manual yet (has it been started)? [09:03] ChrisWoollard: not as far as I know [09:04] i think we should copy lucid-e2 into it and start [09:04] That was my thoughts exactly [09:04] e2 is almost there so should be good for maverick [09:05] I also agree with your comments on the etherpad. There are a frew app changes in mavrick [09:05] jenkins: Quickshot? [09:05] yea, it may be ready for mavrick but flan and i are rather busy at the moment [09:06] okay [09:06] do you think you could have a stable release ready by September 10? [09:06] I am going to try and do some today, I am having to learn loads of new stuff for it at the moment. [09:06] not sure [09:07] I am off the week before [09:07] but it also needs the server to be finished [09:16] godbyk: Did you set up a build of e2? [09:17] ChrisWoollard: Oops, I didn't. [09:18] I'll build one and upload it real quick, though. [09:18] I just haven't updated the script to make a nice link on the page. [09:18] Ok [09:20] tell me what's missing: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/dev-infographic.png [09:21] drop-shadow? [09:21] ChrisWoollard: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/lucid-e2.pdf [09:21] reflections? [09:21] glow? [09:21] :-P [09:22] ... [09:22] When do you think you can get a like posted somethere? [09:23] huh? [09:23] ChrisWoollard: I'm not sure. The problem is that the html page a builds.ubuntu-manual.org is regenerated by a shell script that creates and uploads all the pdfs. [09:23] and since e1 and e2 are completely separate, there's not an easy way for them to have both on the same page right now. [09:24] humphreybc: if you don't add actual points in time along an evenly divided time axis, just text in the usual vertical arrangement will be better [09:24] thorwil: nah, i don't want to do that :P [09:25] humphreybc: what's 'team/other' mean? [09:25] it's like a key [09:25] You could always do http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/e1 or /e2 [09:25] manual stuff on the bottom, everything else on the top [09:25] ChrisWoollard: yeah, I'll probably turn builds.ubuntu-manual.org into a php script that just pulls in the e1, e2, etc. subpages together. [09:26] but I need to write the php script and update the e1 and e2 build scripts first. [09:26] nothing particularly difficult, I just haven't done it yet. [09:26] or rather lucid-e1 / lucid-e2 to reflect the branches [09:26] I understand. Time is nobodys friend [09:28] humphreybc: working on the glossary would break the writing freeze for translators. [09:28] oh right, translators [09:28] Can we also get that url for e2 sent out to the team to check for bugs? [09:29] humphreybc: hey, you have alot of people in my loco pissed off about your blog post :) [09:29] we were going to try to give the translators more time this round, but it may not be possible depending on how much work we have to do for maverick. [09:29] nisshh: ha [09:30] Where is the blog post? I feel I need to get pee'd off with somebody. [09:30] okay, refresh the page or click here [09:30] humphreybc: a WOMAN said this and i quote "nisshh: kick his ass for me!" [09:30] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/dev-infographic.png [09:30] nisshh: I bet I know who that is [09:30] humphreybc: hmmm, have a guess? [09:31] Melissa Draper [09:31] haha [09:31] nope [09:31] we all happy with the infographic timeline thing? [09:31] looks cool [09:32] It is very pretty. Obviously done by a graphics designer or such like. [09:32] that would be me? [09:32] ChrisWoollard: lol [09:33] sure. we'll see how it works. :) [09:35] My point is this. Look at the Ubuntu release schedule and yours and compare. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases The ubuntu one is practical, yours is flashy and pretty. [09:36] ChrisWoollard: and now try to copy some text from it [09:36] sheesh [09:36] I aint stopping anyone from making a plain text one [09:36] Don't get me wrong though it looks nice. [09:37] the idea is that it's just a simple thing so we know what we're doing and when [09:38] id agree with ChrisWoollard IF it was more complicated like Ubuntu's release schedule [09:38] but its not, so prettyness doesnt matter [09:38] it's just a bloody internal graphic I made in a few minutes to illustrate our schedule [09:38] humphreybc: yea, i know, i was just saying :) [09:39] * nisshh will shutup now... [09:39] it's not like we're worse off because it exists [09:39] * ChrisWoollard will also shutup [09:39] oh, yea, we are all going to hell now :) [09:39] lol [09:39] EAT MEAT [09:39] hehe [09:39] are we all happy with those dates? [09:39] they seem feasible? [09:39] humphreybc: right, it's no reason to get worked up at all, it just embodies the fact that you still have to learn what it means to be a designer ;p [09:40] humphreybc: well, im not saying change it, but is e2 ready for release by then? [09:40] thorwil: now you're just trying to wind me up [09:40] thorwil: haha [09:40] * ChrisWoollard is rofl [09:40] e2 was ready ages ago [09:40] humphreybc: well, it is the new pastime. :-) [09:40] humphreybc: true, but translations and whatnot for it? [09:41] thorwil: I have to say this, but just because I don't design things like you doesn't make it wrong. [09:41] heh [09:41] humphreybc: i cant wait till your next rant on OMG [09:41] gonna be a ripper [09:41] :) [09:42] * ChrisWoollard wants to subscibe [09:42] heh [09:43] I think it is spaced too much there would be a lot of scrolling on a small screen. What about making it vertical? [09:43] jenkins: I think you should go and die in a fire. [09:43] heh [09:44] humphreybc: you just further confirm what i said. just one point of several: vertical scrolling [09:44] Maybe it was designed for a 28" Mac screen. [09:45] Hi all, is there any news about the problems with launchpad and translations? [09:45] trijntje: not as far as i know [09:45] ill check [09:46] how much is left on lucid-e2 godbyk? [09:46] ok, thanks. Is there somewhere I could check these things myself? [09:47] humphreybc: http://identi.ca/notice/45149042 [09:47] nisshh: yeah, Tim actually rang me about that [09:47] trijntje: no idea, im just looking at the LP blog and identica feeds [09:47] * ChrisWoollard is pmsl [09:47] humphreybc: interested? [09:48] nisshh: Interested in the visual part, but not the development part [09:48] humphreybc: fair enough [09:48] jenkins: what do you mean? [09:48] as far as layout etc [09:49] Oh, I think we're going to just keep the same layout for e2. [09:49] no sense making a lot of extra work for ourselves just yet. [09:49] +1 [09:50] ok, I will have a flick through and check for visual errors [09:50] * humphreybc added a drop shadow [09:51] nisshh, I dont know much about LP or the manual, as a translator I just want to know when its 'safe' to translate the manual again [09:51] trijntje: It never seems to be foolproof. [09:52] trijntje: As soon as we think it's safe, something burps again. [09:52] trijntje: yea, fair enough [09:52] trijntje: we have changed the number of people who can change the settings on the project from ~450 to 7 [09:52] jenkins: great work on that Luke [09:52] jenkins: and then promptly fiddled with the translation settings. :-P [09:52] jenkins, that seems like a good idea ;) [09:52] thanks humphreybc, godbyk I did not touch them :P [09:53] trijntje, godbyk, last week the import settings on translations were changed to make sure no demotions of translations to suggestions happen [09:53] I'll blog about what our team is up to on Planet Ubuntu after the meeting [09:53] dpm, that is the problem I bumped into, is this now solved? [09:54] dpm: but by allowing automatic import of the translation template, that's precisely what can happen. (if someone edits the .pot file and commits it to the branch.) [09:55] godbyk, no, the problem was not on the template [09:55] editing the pot template and committing is a normal procedure [09:55] godbyk: the e2 coverpage. Does something need to happen, because it looks the same at the moment? [09:55] I'm not sure what the translation settings were last week (they seem to change occasionally for some unknown reason), but I used to have lucid-e1 as the focused branch and all of the automatic import/export stuff disabled completely. [09:56] dpm: That's true. Except that lucid-e1 is in a writing freeze and the pot should never be updated. The problem is that it *can* still be updated. And sometimes launchpad burps and seems to reread the pot file for no apparent reason. [09:56] godbyk, I'm not sure who changes the settings (they do not do it by themselves), but prompted by an e-mail on the translators list, I made sure an admin changed the settings to correct ones [09:56] godbyk, I do know that the focus changed to e2 about two weeks ago and then changed back again to e1 [09:57] dpm: Yeah, I assume it's someone that changes the settings, but the email notifications we receive never specify who. [09:57] godbyk, it's up to the maintainers to make sure no new pot files are never committed during freeze [09:57] ChrisWoollard: Yeah, I probably need to edit the code to point at the new covers or something. [09:57] that applies for the manual and for any other project [09:57] dpm: Sure. Or we can just disable the auto-import of the pot file and be done with it, right? [09:59] godbyk, right, but I think committing changes to a frozen branch is the wrong approach. Rather than continuosly changing the settings, maintainers should simply not commit new POT templates to frozen branches. [10:00] godbyk: for the branches that are frozen could we not change the owner to a restricted group? I don't want to stop people contributing but it may help us control it as we have a large team [10:00] jenkins: we could, but the restricted group for e1, for instance, would need to include the translation editors (so they can commit directly). [10:01] godbyk: thats ok we just do another launchpad team, no clue what to call it :) [10:01] dpm: I don't think we've had many problems with the pot files being updated automatically. I just disabled all the auto-import stuff to remove a couple variables that may have been causing havoc with the translations being demoted to suggestions. [10:03] anyone in here able to do gtk spinners? [10:04] jenkins: maybe [10:05] nisshh: could you help me work out how to do it? http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkSpinner.html is the docs on it [10:05] jenkins: sure [10:05] thanks [10:07] * jenkins still has bugs in his screen [10:08] bugs on screen is bad enough [10:08] jenkins: its really easy [10:09] jenkins: you just grab a new spinner: self.spinner = gtk.Spinner() [10:09] I'm gonna go to bed so I can sleep for a few hours before this meeting. [10:09] See ya soon. [10:09] jenkins: and start it: self.spinner.start() [10:09] godbyk: cya [10:10] (Btw, you should clear up the ever-present #ubuntu-manual/#ubuntu-meeting confusion. Email says one thing, wiki says another, I think.) [10:10] true [10:10] good might godbyk [10:10] which is weird because i just had breakfast [10:10] jenkins: the default duration is 1000 ms [10:10] but that can be changed [10:11] so can a bunch of other stuff [10:11] thanks nisshh I will have a play , how did you get that all from the docs? [10:11] jenkins: you still there? :) [10:11] ah ok [10:11] jenkins: google :) [10:12] the pygtk docs are pretty crappy [10:12] i did a google and came up with nothing you must be better than i am [10:12] only useful for getting methods and finding out EXACTLY what they do [10:12] jenkins: i started with pygtk, so it comes naturally now [10:13] jenkins: your much better at straight python than me [10:13] nisshh: I learn everything as i need it for quickshot as thats the only thing I have done python with [10:13] jenkins: this pygtk stuff is for quickshot? [10:13] ye [10:13] yea [10:14] I want to make a spinner show whilst the info is being downloaded from the server. [10:14] ah yea [10:15] that should be easy as [10:15] what page did you read from? [10:15] i did a google search for pygtk spinner widget [10:16] thorwil: tell me about it they are annoying as anything and there is three of them [10:16] and came up with this: http://learnpygtk.org/pygtktutorial/spinner.html [10:17] i forgot, but i used to use that site when i was learning pygtk [10:17] its a very good one [10:17] I have just book marked the site [10:17] yea [10:17] i also used one called zetcode [10:17] which is not as comprehensive [10:18] but has tutorials for alot more language bindings and stuff [10:18] cool thanks [10:18] np :) [10:25] nisshh any idea on how to set what image it uses http://ubuntuone.com/p/7Xa/ is the largest version avalible of the spinner [10:27] hmmm [10:27] that could be tricky [10:30] jenkins: i dont think you can, there is nothing like that in the pygtk docs [10:30] jenkins: all you can do with that widget is start stop hide show duration and steps [10:30] pretty basic widget [10:30] nisshh: there are three versions of that image included in ubuntu icons, each of different sizes [10:31] yea [10:31] they must have a use, may be I am trying to do the wrong thing with it [10:32] jenkins: what do you mean? [10:33] well there must be a way to specify what size it is. I might be using the wrong widget [10:35] the only similar widget is the gtkcellrendererspinner [10:35] which you have to place inside a cell [10:35] which is not what you would want [10:35] inside a cell as in a hbox or vbox? [10:36] no [10:36] o no thats not what I wnat [10:36] inside a cell of a treeview [10:36] just tried the example [10:36] yea [10:37] you could always create your own custom widget jenkins [10:37] jenkins: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/customwidget/ [10:37] you dont even need to create one [10:37] just modify the spinner widget [10:37] looking at the code for the title page. It looks like the images are all pdf's. Thorwil's new images are svg's. I am guessing that they need to be converted to pdf's for it to work. Is that right? [10:39] nisshh: that is my challenge for today then [10:39] ChrisWoollard: yes, but for all i know, the build script takes care of that. except for the lulu covers, that will be commited as PDFs, too [10:39] ChrisWoollard: iirc inkscape does it during the build, or it might have been changed to doing them before hand [10:40] jenkins: hehe, ok, but be warned, custom widgets are not the easiest thing to code [10:40] nisshh: hehe I guessed but here goes nothing :P [10:41] hehe [10:41] I have to find the original widget file first :D [10:41] yea [10:42] jenkins: also, note that you will need to ship your custom widget with quickshot [10:42] in the ubuntu-manual.cls file there are currently references to all the pdf images. So it looks to me like a manual process to change the images over. [10:42] nisshh: already on it :) [10:45] cool [10:48] thnaks for your help nisshh [11:07] nisshh any idea where the widget source is? I have downloaded the source of python-gtk2-dev which i think it should be in but I can't find it [11:08] http://learnpygtk.org/pygtktutorial/spinner.html at the top it says it is in the ubuntu version and thats what I am looking at [11:26] jenkins: sorry i was afk there [11:26] hmm [11:26] its not very easy to find [11:27] heh [11:28] * nisshh cant even get the page to laod anymore [11:28] dammit [11:28] there we go [11:29] http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=151763 is the patch but I would like to find the python. so that I can use it as an like the example one [11:29] *as an example [11:30] yea [11:33] I have justed the new coverpages (Revision 148). Feel free to have a look. [11:37] jenkins: dunno, dude [11:37] thanks for looking nisshh, I will keep digging [11:39] ok sure jenkins :) [11:39] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/382986/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2-r148.pdf [11:41] ChrisWoollard: nice [11:44] looks good ChrisWoollard [11:45] ChrisWoollard: there are some duplicated entries in index (i.e F-Spot, Nautilus, Software Center's, Synaptic, Apt, gedit, Mozilla Firefox, Rythmbox ), i think it's considered as bug. [11:46] can you log it? [11:47] you mean to file it as bug on lp ? [11:47] yes [11:48] have a good meeting and make sure you email a summary to the list so I know what happened :) [11:48] ok but I can fix it right now. Should I ? [11:49] go for it. [11:49] the tex file is on branch ? [11:50] * humphreybc is off to bed [11:51] c7p: You want to know where the tex file is? [11:51] yes [11:52] is that the file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2/annotate/head%3A/main.tex ? [11:52] it' should be /frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex [11:52] in e2 [11:52] i think that is what you mean [11:53] nope the main tex file (which includes the main text of the manual) [11:53] sorry [11:53] i had glossary in my head [11:54] the link that i gave above isn't what I am looking for [11:58] i have not looked at the index, so don't really know how it works. [11:59] Maybe it is best just to file a bug on lp and then we can have a look at it later. [11:59] ok [12:00] actually i've just found the files but i have trouble submitting them back to branch from my local machine [12:01] nevermind i an reporting the bug [12:03] what does it say in the submit error? [12:03] file conflict or something like that [12:04] i do what it tells me to but nothing [12:04] ChrisWoollard: the pdf that you uploaded before is the one that you are working on ? [12:05] that is just the latest revision. [12:05] what happens if you do another pull [12:05] ok ty :) [12:06] it is possible that because I did a push that it has got it's knickers in a twist. [12:07] i think last time i had to do an uncommit. then a pull. Then check my changes were still there. Then commit and push [12:07] no no i have this problem for two months or so, I have to re-download but there is no need now, the bug is reported [12:08] g2g cu on meeting [12:08] ok [12:08] laters [14:46] * jenkins is not having much luck making his own spinner [15:55] the meeting will take place in this channel right ? [15:55] yep [15:55] I believe in #ubuntu-meeting [15:55] thats what the mails said [15:56] no, in here [15:56] okey my bad on mail [16:00] everyone here? [16:01] godbyk, jenkins [16:01] flan, thorwil, vish [16:01] I'm here [16:01] ready to roll [16:01] i make it meeting time [16:01] me too [16:01] and so it is [16:01] Show is the deal. Here or #ubuntu-meeting? [16:01] #startmeeting [16:01] Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is dutchie. [16:01] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:02] Here. Lovely [16:02] ok, the agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings [16:02] ah, we have a thishumphreybc [16:02] can't sleep [16:02] figured I may as well pop along [16:03] * highvoltage waves [16:03] hi highvoltage [16:03] and hi czajkowski as well [16:03] hi dutchie [16:03] so everyone have an agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings? [16:03] I do [16:03] right-o [16:03] got it [16:04] wonder where godbyk/jenkins are [16:04] here [16:04] dutchie: link to the pad too? [16:04] i don't have a link [16:04] #endmeeting [16:04] Meeting finished at 10:04. [16:04] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/baZkHCQiMu [16:04] right, wait until everyone's here [16:04] that was quick [16:04] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/baZkHCQiMu [16:04] heh @ 10:04 [16:04] wow, we're really getting efficient with this meeting thing [16:05] godbyk said he'd be along [16:05] oh well [16:05] try again [16:05] #startmeeting [16:05] Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is dutchie. [16:05] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:05] take 2 [16:05] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings [16:06] etherpad: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/baZkHCQiMu [16:06] ok, let's begin [16:06] [TOPIC] Lucid-e2 or Maverick? [16:06] New Topic: Lucid-e2 or Maverick? [16:06] mavrick has my vote [16:06] The motivation behind this point is that we've only got 2 months till the maverick release [16:07] we can still release e2 [16:07] We can always delay lucid-e2 until after Maverick [16:07] I think we ought to really get going on Maverick. [16:07] lucid will be around for a while and can be done in the background [16:07] i aree with brandonj and jenkins [16:07] has everyone seen my timeline graphic? [16:07] jenkins: +1 [16:07] i think we need to shift along with maverick [16:07] thishumphreybc: no? [16:07] me too. [16:07] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/dev-infographic.png [16:07] LINK received: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/dev-infographic.png [16:08] We've already fixed most of the bugs in the Lucid e2 branch. It's just a matter of putting a new cover on and releasing it. [16:08] Is the translation stuff set to go though? [16:08] the cover in on [16:08] seems like a very small window in which to release lucid-e2 ... can we hit that? [16:08] brandonj: the translations stuff only takes a few minutes to set up [16:08] i did that earlier [16:09] i haven't really been keeping up with e2 progress [16:09] i think that lucid e-2 should be released. requires little work and will fix many mistakes for the lts [16:09] we fixed over 250 bugs thanks to the competition [16:09] there is no downside to releasing e2 in a week [16:09] there are still 102 bugs targeted for e2 [16:09] there are minor errors that need fixing in it still like there is a graphic worng and a random ) . I haev only looked at the firts bit [16:09] most of those are fixed [16:09] what status are they? [16:10] there are only a handful of open ones [16:10]