[08:12] <thorwil> good morning!
[08:16] <ChrisWoollard> morning
[08:22] <shrini> hello team
[08:22] <shrini> what about giving the table of contents on the website?
[08:22] <shrini> so that people can know what is there in the book
[08:30] <thorwil> shrini: ideally we would have the entire content online
[08:30] <shrini> that too great
[08:31] <thorwil> but currently the worry is about bringing out the next version at all
[08:33] <shrini> thorwil: yes
[08:33] <humphreybc> hey
[08:34] <thorwil> humphreybc: so how much fan mail did you receive since your infamous communication disaster disguised as blog post?
[08:35] <vish> s/infamous/ /
[08:35] <vish> thorwil: he'll survive ;)
[08:39] <humphreybc> I just added some stuff here
[08:39] <humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/baZkHCQiMu
[08:39] <vish> grr , why does my xchat not open links!
[08:39] <humphreybc> thorwil: I got a few more twitter followers and OMG! Ubunu! gained a lot more page views and subscribers, if that's what you mean? :P
[08:40] <vish> humphreybc: ha! so it was a marketing strategy from the start! ;)
[08:41] <vish> every time i'm having to select open link in browser :/ , damn you xchat!
[08:41] <thorwil> great, the masses are even dumber than i thought, then
[08:41] <humphreybc> lol
[08:42] <humphreybc> right
[08:42] <humphreybc> so now I'm going to make a pretty infographic that should outline our plans and timeline
[08:49] <ChrisWoollard> nice e-mail godbyk
[08:50] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Thanks.
[08:50] <godbyk> Just in case I can't make the meeting. :)
[08:52] <godbyk> I see thorwil's been proofreading the notes on the pad. ;-)
[08:52] <thorwil> i can't help it!
[08:52] <godbyk> Just couldn't refrain, could you, thorwil!
[08:58] <ChrisWoollard> It's always nice when information is shared. It helps people to know what is going on and where we are at :)
[08:59] <ChrisWoollard> This seems to be a good time of day. Lots of people are around.
[09:01] <humphreybc> does anyone know how the quickshot guys are going?
[09:03] <thorwil> humphreybc: i vaguely recall that flan has other worries, currently, but hopes to get at it again, soonish
[09:03] <ChrisWoollard> Has anything happened with the maverick manual yet (has it been started)?
[09:03] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: not as far as I know
[09:04] <jenkins> i think we should copy lucid-e2 into it and start
[09:04] <ChrisWoollard> That was my thoughts exactly
[09:04] <ChrisWoollard> e2 is almost there so should be good for maverick
[09:05] <jenkins> I also agree with your comments on the etherpad. There are a frew app changes in mavrick
[09:05] <humphreybc> jenkins: Quickshot?
[09:05] <jenkins> yea, it may be ready for mavrick but flan and i are rather busy at the moment
[09:06] <humphreybc> okay
[09:06] <humphreybc> do you think you could have a stable release ready by September 10?
[09:06] <jenkins> I am going to try and do some today, I am having to learn loads of new stuff for it at the moment.
[09:06] <jenkins> not sure
[09:07] <jenkins> I am off the week before
[09:07] <jenkins> but it also needs the server to be finished
[09:16] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: Did you set up a build of e2?
[09:17] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Oops, I didn't.
[09:18] <godbyk> I'll build one and upload it real quick, though.
[09:18] <godbyk> I just haven't updated the script to make a nice link on the page.
[09:18] <ChrisWoollard> Ok
[09:20] <humphreybc> tell me what's missing: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/dev-infographic.png
[09:21] <thorwil> drop-shadow?
[09:21] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/lucid-e2.pdf
[09:21] <godbyk> reflections?
[09:21] <godbyk> glow?
[09:21] <godbyk> :-P
[09:22] <humphreybc> ...
[09:22] <ChrisWoollard> When do you think you can get a like posted somethere?
[09:23] <humphreybc> huh?
[09:23] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I'm not sure. The problem is that the html page a builds.ubuntu-manual.org is regenerated by a shell script that creates and uploads all the pdfs.
[09:23] <godbyk> and since e1 and e2 are completely separate, there's not an easy way for them to have both on the same page right now.
[09:24] <thorwil> humphreybc: if you don't add actual points in time along an evenly divided time axis, just text in the usual vertical arrangement will be better
[09:24] <humphreybc> thorwil: nah, i don't want to do that :P
[09:25] <godbyk> humphreybc: what's 'team/other' mean?
[09:25] <humphreybc> it's like a key
[09:25] <ChrisWoollard> You could always do http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/e1 or /e2
[09:25] <humphreybc> manual stuff on the bottom, everything else on the top
[09:25] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: yeah, I'll probably turn builds.ubuntu-manual.org into a php script that just pulls in the e1, e2, etc. subpages together.
[09:26] <godbyk> but I need to write the php script and update the e1 and e2 build scripts first.
[09:26] <godbyk> nothing particularly difficult, I just haven't done it yet.
[09:26] <ChrisWoollard> or rather lucid-e1 / lucid-e2 to reflect the branches
[09:26] <ChrisWoollard> I understand. Time is nobodys friend
[09:28] <godbyk> humphreybc: working on the glossary would break the writing freeze for translators.
[09:28] <humphreybc> oh right, translators
[09:28] <ChrisWoollard> Can we also get that url for e2 sent out to the team to check for bugs?
[09:29] <nisshh> humphreybc: hey, you have alot of people in my loco pissed off about your blog post :)
[09:29] <godbyk> we were going to try to give the translators more time this round, but it may not be possible depending on how much work we have to do for maverick.
[09:29] <humphreybc> nisshh: ha
[09:30] <ChrisWoollard> Where is the blog post? I feel I need to get pee'd off with somebody.
[09:30] <humphreybc> okay, refresh the page or click here
[09:30] <nisshh> humphreybc: a WOMAN said this and i quote "nisshh: kick his ass for me!"
[09:30] <humphreybc> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/dev-infographic.png
[09:30] <humphreybc> nisshh: I bet I know who that is
[09:30] <nisshh> humphreybc: hmmm, have a guess?
[09:31] <humphreybc> Melissa Draper
[09:31] <nisshh> haha
[09:31] <nisshh> nope
[09:31] <humphreybc> we all happy with the infographic timeline thing?
[09:31] <nisshh> looks cool
[09:32] <ChrisWoollard> It is very pretty. Obviously done by a graphics designer or such like.
[09:32] <humphreybc> that would be me?
[09:32] <nisshh> ChrisWoollard: lol
[09:33] <godbyk> sure. we'll see how it works. :)
[09:35] <ChrisWoollard> My point is this. Look at the Ubuntu release schedule and yours and compare. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases The ubuntu one is practical, yours is flashy and pretty.
[09:36] <thorwil> ChrisWoollard: and now try to copy some text from it
[09:36] <humphreybc> sheesh
[09:36] <humphreybc> I aint stopping anyone from making a plain text one
[09:36] <ChrisWoollard> Don't get me wrong though it looks nice.
[09:37] <humphreybc> the idea is that it's just a simple thing so we know what we're doing and when
[09:38] <nisshh> id agree with ChrisWoollard IF it was more complicated like Ubuntu's release schedule
[09:38] <nisshh> but its not, so prettyness doesnt matter
[09:38] <humphreybc> it's just a bloody internal graphic I made in a few minutes to illustrate our schedule
[09:38] <nisshh> humphreybc: yea, i know, i was just saying :)
[09:39]  * nisshh will shutup now...
[09:39] <humphreybc> it's not like we're worse off because it exists
[09:39]  * ChrisWoollard will also shutup
[09:39] <nisshh> oh, yea, we are all going to hell now :)
[09:39] <humphreybc> lol
[09:39] <humphreybc> EAT MEAT
[09:39] <nisshh> hehe
[09:39] <humphreybc> are we all happy with those dates?
[09:39] <humphreybc> they seem feasible?
[09:39] <thorwil> humphreybc: right, it's no reason to get worked up at all, it just embodies the fact that you still have to learn what it means to be a designer ;p
[09:40] <nisshh> humphreybc: well, im not saying change it, but is e2 ready for release by then?
[09:40] <humphreybc> thorwil: now you're just trying to wind me up
[09:40] <nisshh> thorwil: haha
[09:40]  * ChrisWoollard is rofl
[09:40] <humphreybc> e2 was ready ages ago
[09:40] <godbyk> humphreybc: well, it is the new pastime. :-)
[09:40] <nisshh> humphreybc: true, but translations and whatnot for it?
[09:41] <humphreybc> thorwil: I have to say this, but just because I don't design things like you doesn't make it wrong.
[09:41] <nisshh> heh
[09:41] <nisshh> humphreybc: i cant wait till your next rant on OMG
[09:41] <nisshh> gonna be a ripper
[09:41] <nisshh> :)
[09:42]  * ChrisWoollard wants to subscibe
[09:42] <nisshh> heh
[09:43] <jenkins> I think it is spaced too much there would be a lot of scrolling on a small screen. What about making it vertical?
[09:43] <humphreybc> jenkins: I think you should go and die in a fire.
[09:43] <nisshh> heh
[09:44] <thorwil> humphreybc: you just further confirm what i said. just one point of several: vertical scrolling
[09:44] <ChrisWoollard> Maybe it was designed for a 28" Mac screen.
[09:45] <trijntje> Hi all, is there any news about the problems with launchpad and translations?
[09:45] <nisshh> trijntje: not as far as i know
[09:45] <nisshh> ill check
[09:46] <jenkins> how much is left on lucid-e2 godbyk?
[09:46] <trijntje> ok, thanks. Is there somewhere I could check these things myself?
[09:47] <nisshh> humphreybc: http://identi.ca/notice/45149042
[09:47] <humphreybc> nisshh: yeah, Tim actually rang me about that
[09:47] <nisshh> trijntje: no idea, im just looking at the LP blog and identica feeds
[09:47]  * ChrisWoollard is pmsl
[09:47] <nisshh> humphreybc: interested?
[09:48] <humphreybc> nisshh: Interested in the visual part, but not the development part
[09:48] <nisshh> humphreybc: fair enough
[09:48] <godbyk> jenkins: what do you mean?
[09:48] <jenkins> as far as layout etc
[09:49] <godbyk> Oh, I think we're going to just keep the same layout for e2.
[09:49] <godbyk> no sense making a lot of extra work for ourselves just yet.
[09:49] <thorwil> +1
[09:50] <jenkins> ok, I will have a flick through and check for visual errors
[09:50]  * humphreybc added a drop shadow
[09:51] <trijntje> nisshh, I dont know much about LP or the manual, as a translator I just want to know when its 'safe' to translate the manual again
[09:51] <godbyk> trijntje: It never seems to be foolproof.
[09:52] <godbyk> trijntje: As soon as we think it's safe, something burps again.
[09:52] <nisshh> trijntje: yea, fair enough
[09:52] <jenkins> trijntje: we have changed the number of people who can change the settings on the project from ~450 to 7
[09:52] <humphreybc> jenkins: great work on that Luke
[09:52] <godbyk> jenkins: and then promptly fiddled with the translation settings. :-P
[09:52] <trijntje> jenkins, that seems like a good idea ;)
[09:52] <jenkins> thanks humphreybc, godbyk I did not touch them :P
[09:53] <dpm> trijntje, godbyk, last week the import settings on translations were changed to make sure no demotions of translations to suggestions happen
[09:53] <humphreybc> I'll blog about what our team is up to on Planet Ubuntu after the meeting
[09:53] <trijntje> dpm, that is the problem I bumped into, is this now solved?
[09:54] <godbyk> dpm: but by allowing automatic import of the translation template, that's precisely what can happen.  (if someone edits the .pot file and commits it to the branch.)
[09:55] <dpm> godbyk, no, the problem was not on the template
[09:55] <dpm> editing the pot template and committing is a normal procedure
[09:55] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: the e2 coverpage. Does something need to happen, because it looks the same at the moment?
[09:55] <godbyk> I'm not sure what the translation settings were last week (they seem to change occasionally for some unknown reason), but I used to have lucid-e1 as the focused branch and all of the automatic import/export stuff disabled completely.
[09:56] <godbyk> dpm: That's true. Except that lucid-e1 is in a writing freeze and the pot should never be updated.  The problem is that it *can* still be updated.  And sometimes launchpad burps and seems to reread the pot file for no apparent reason.
[09:56] <dpm> godbyk, I'm not sure who changes the settings (they do not do it by themselves), but prompted by an e-mail on the translators list, I made sure an admin changed the settings to correct ones
[09:56] <trijntje> godbyk, I do know that the focus changed to e2 about two weeks ago and then changed back again to e1
[09:57] <godbyk> dpm: Yeah, I assume it's someone that changes the settings, but the email notifications we receive never specify who.
[09:57] <dpm> godbyk, it's up to the maintainers to make sure no new pot files are never committed during freeze
[09:57] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Yeah, I probably need to edit the code to point at the new covers or something.
[09:57] <dpm> that applies for the manual and for any other project
[09:57] <godbyk> dpm: Sure. Or we can just disable the auto-import of the pot file and be done with it, right?
[09:59] <dpm> godbyk, right, but I think committing changes to a frozen branch is the wrong approach. Rather than continuosly changing the settings, maintainers should simply not commit new POT templates to frozen branches.
[10:00] <jenkins> godbyk: for the branches that are frozen could we not change the owner to a restricted group? I don't want to stop people contributing but it may help us control it as we have a large team
[10:00] <godbyk> jenkins: we could, but the restricted group for e1, for instance, would need to include the translation editors (so they can commit directly).
[10:01] <jenkins> godbyk: thats ok we just do another launchpad team, no clue what to call it :)
[10:01] <godbyk> dpm: I don't think we've had many problems with the pot files being updated automatically.  I just disabled all the auto-import stuff to remove a couple variables that may have been causing havoc with the translations being demoted to suggestions.
[10:03] <jenkins> anyone in here able to do gtk spinners?
[10:04] <nisshh> jenkins: maybe
[10:05] <jenkins> nisshh: could you help me work out how to do it? http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkSpinner.html is the docs on it
[10:05] <nisshh> jenkins: sure
[10:05] <jenkins> thanks
[10:07]  * jenkins still has bugs in his screen
[10:08] <thorwil> bugs on screen is bad enough
[10:08] <nisshh> jenkins: its really easy
[10:09] <nisshh> jenkins: you just grab a new spinner: self.spinner = gtk.Spinner()
[10:09] <godbyk> I'm gonna go to bed so I can sleep for a few hours before this meeting.
[10:09] <godbyk> See ya soon.
[10:09] <nisshh> jenkins: and start it: self.spinner.start()
[10:09] <nisshh> godbyk: cya
[10:10] <godbyk> (Btw, you should clear up the ever-present #ubuntu-manual/#ubuntu-meeting confusion. Email says one thing, wiki says another, I think.)
[10:10] <nisshh> true
[10:10] <ChrisWoollard> good might godbyk
[10:10] <ChrisWoollard> which is weird because i just had breakfast
[10:10] <nisshh> jenkins: the default duration is 1000 ms
[10:10] <nisshh> but that can be changed
[10:11] <nisshh> so can a bunch of other stuff
[10:11] <jenkins> thanks nisshh I will have a play , how did you get that all from the docs?
[10:11] <nisshh> jenkins: you still there? :)
[10:11] <nisshh> ah ok
[10:11] <nisshh> jenkins: google :)
[10:12] <nisshh> the pygtk docs are pretty crappy
[10:12] <jenkins> i did a google and came up with nothing you must be better than i am
[10:12] <nisshh> only useful for getting methods and finding out EXACTLY what they do
[10:12] <nisshh> jenkins: i started with pygtk, so it comes naturally now
[10:13] <nisshh> jenkins: your much better at straight python than me
[10:13] <jenkins> nisshh: I learn everything as i need it for quickshot as thats the only thing I have done python with
[10:13] <nisshh> jenkins: this pygtk stuff is for quickshot?
[10:13] <nisshh> ye
[10:13] <nisshh> yea
[10:14] <jenkins> I want to make a spinner show whilst the info is being downloaded from the server.
[10:14] <nisshh> ah yea
[10:15] <nisshh> that should be easy as
[10:15] <jenkins> what page did you read from?
[10:15] <nisshh> i did a google search for pygtk spinner widget
[10:16] <jenkins> thorwil: tell me about it they are annoying as anything and there is three of them
[10:16] <nisshh> and came up with this: http://learnpygtk.org/pygtktutorial/spinner.html
[10:17] <nisshh> i forgot, but i used to use that site when i was learning pygtk
[10:17] <nisshh> its a very good one
[10:17] <jenkins> I have just book marked the site
[10:17] <nisshh> yea
[10:17] <nisshh> i also used one called zetcode
[10:17] <nisshh> which is not as comprehensive
[10:18] <nisshh> but has tutorials for alot more language bindings and stuff
[10:18] <jenkins> cool thanks
[10:18] <nisshh> np :)
[10:25] <jenkins> nisshh any idea on how to set what image it uses http://ubuntuone.com/p/7Xa/ is the largest version avalible of the spinner
[10:27] <nisshh> hmmm
[10:27] <nisshh> that could be tricky
[10:30] <nisshh> jenkins: i dont think you can, there is nothing like that in the pygtk docs
[10:30] <nisshh> jenkins: all you can do with that widget is start stop hide show duration and steps
[10:30] <nisshh> pretty basic widget
[10:30] <jenkins> nisshh: there are three versions of that image included in ubuntu icons, each of different sizes
[10:31] <nisshh> yea
[10:31] <jenkins> they must have a use, may be I am trying to do the wrong thing with it
[10:32] <nisshh> jenkins: what do you mean?
[10:33] <jenkins> well there must be a way to specify what size it is. I might be using the wrong widget
[10:35] <nisshh> the only similar widget is the gtkcellrendererspinner
[10:35] <nisshh> which you have to place inside a cell
[10:35] <nisshh> which is not what you would want
[10:35] <jenkins> inside a cell as in a hbox or vbox?
[10:36] <nisshh> no
[10:36] <jenkins> o no thats not what I wnat
[10:36] <nisshh> inside a cell of a treeview
[10:36] <jenkins> just tried the example
[10:36] <nisshh> yea
[10:37] <nisshh> you could always create your own custom widget jenkins
[10:37] <nisshh> jenkins: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/customwidget/
[10:37] <nisshh> you dont even need to create one
[10:37] <nisshh> just modify the spinner widget
[10:37] <ChrisWoollard> looking at the code for the title page. It looks like the images are all pdf's. Thorwil's new images are svg's. I am guessing that they need to be converted to pdf's for it to work. Is that right?
[10:39] <jenkins> nisshh:  that is my challenge for today then
[10:39] <thorwil> ChrisWoollard: yes, but for all i know, the build script takes care of that. except for the lulu covers, that will be commited as PDFs, too
[10:39] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: iirc inkscape does it during the build, or it might have been changed to doing them before hand
[10:40] <nisshh> jenkins: hehe, ok, but be warned, custom widgets are not the easiest thing to code
[10:40] <jenkins> nisshh: hehe I guessed but here goes nothing :P
[10:41] <nisshh> hehe
[10:41] <jenkins> I have to find the original widget file first :D
[10:41] <nisshh> yea
[10:42] <nisshh> jenkins: also, note that you will need to ship your custom widget with quickshot
[10:42] <ChrisWoollard> in the ubuntu-manual.cls file there are currently references to all the pdf images. So it looks to me like a manual process to change the images over.
[10:42] <jenkins> nisshh: already on it :)
[10:45] <nisshh> cool
[10:48] <jenkins> thnaks for your help nisshh
[11:07] <jenkins> nisshh any idea where the widget source is? I have downloaded the source of python-gtk2-dev which i think it should be in but I can't find it
[11:08] <jenkins> http://learnpygtk.org/pygtktutorial/spinner.html at the top it says it is in the ubuntu version and thats what I am looking at
[11:26] <nisshh> jenkins: sorry i was afk there
[11:26] <nisshh> hmm
[11:26] <jenkins> its not very easy to find
[11:27] <nisshh> heh
[11:28]  * nisshh cant even get the page to laod anymore
[11:28] <nisshh> dammit
[11:28] <nisshh> there we go
[11:29] <jenkins> http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=151763 is the patch but I would like to find the python. so that I can use it as an like the example one
[11:29] <jenkins> *as an example
[11:30] <nisshh> yea
[11:33] <ChrisWoollard> I have justed the new coverpages (Revision 148). Feel free to have a look.
[11:37] <nisshh> jenkins: dunno, dude
[11:37] <jenkins> thanks for looking nisshh, I will keep digging
[11:39] <nisshh> ok sure jenkins :)
[11:39] <ChrisWoollard> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/382986/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2-r148.pdf
[11:41] <nisshh> ChrisWoollard: nice
[11:44] <jenkins> looks good ChrisWoollard
[11:45] <c7p> ChrisWoollard: there are some duplicated entries in index (i.e F-Spot, Nautilus, Software Center's, Synaptic, Apt, gedit, Mozilla Firefox, Rythmbox ), i think it's considered as bug.
[11:46] <ChrisWoollard> can you log it?
[11:47] <c7p> you mean to file it as bug on lp ?
[11:47] <ChrisWoollard> yes
[11:48] <humphreybc> have a good meeting and make sure you email a summary to the list so I know what happened :)
[11:48] <c7p> ok but I can fix it right now. Should I ?
[11:49] <ChrisWoollard> go for it.
[11:49] <c7p> the tex file is on branch ?
[11:50]  * humphreybc is off to bed
[11:51] <ChrisWoollard> c7p: You want to know where the tex file is?
[11:51] <c7p> yes
[11:52] <c7p> is that the file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2/annotate/head%3A/main.tex  ?
[11:52] <ChrisWoollard> it' should be /frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex
[11:52] <ChrisWoollard> in e2
[11:52] <ChrisWoollard> i think that is what you mean
[11:53] <c7p> nope the main tex file (which includes the main text of the manual)
[11:53] <ChrisWoollard> sorry
[11:53] <ChrisWoollard> i had glossary in my head
[11:54] <c7p> the link that i gave above isn't what I am looking for
[11:58] <ChrisWoollard> i have not looked at the index, so don't really know how it works.
[11:59] <ChrisWoollard> Maybe it is best just to file a bug on lp and then we can have a look at it later.
[11:59] <c7p> ok
[12:00] <c7p> actually i've just found the files but i have trouble submitting them back to branch from my local machine
[12:01] <c7p> nevermind i an reporting the bug
[12:03] <ChrisWoollard> what does it say in the submit error?
[12:03] <c7p> file conflict or something like that
[12:04] <c7p> i do what it tells me to but nothing
[12:04] <c7p> ChrisWoollard: the pdf that you uploaded before is the one that you are working on ?
[12:05] <ChrisWoollard> that is just the latest revision.
[12:05] <ChrisWoollard> what happens if you do another pull
[12:05] <c7p> ok ty :)
[12:06] <ChrisWoollard> it is possible that because I did a push that it has got it's knickers in a twist.
[12:07] <ChrisWoollard> i think last time i had to do an uncommit. then a pull. Then check my changes were still there. Then commit and push
[12:07] <c7p> no no i have this problem for two months or so, I have to re-download but there is no need now, the bug is reported
[12:08] <c7p> g2g cu on meeting
[12:08] <ChrisWoollard> ok
[12:08] <ChrisWoollard> laters
[14:46]  * jenkins is not having much luck making his own spinner
[15:55] <c7p> the meeting will take place in this channel right ?
[15:55] <dutchie> yep
[15:55] <Muscovy> I believe in #ubuntu-meeting
[15:55] <brandonj> thats what the mails said
[15:56] <dutchie> no, in here
[15:56] <c7p> okey my bad on mail
[16:00] <dutchie> everyone here?
[16:01] <dutchie> godbyk, jenkins
[16:01] <dutchie> flan, thorwil, vish
[16:01] <JasonCook599> I'm here
[16:01] <semioticrobotic> ready to roll
[16:01] <dutchie> i make it meeting time
[16:01] <brandonj> me too
[16:01] <semioticrobotic> and so it is
[16:01] <ChrisWoollard> Show is the deal. Here or #ubuntu-meeting?
[16:01] <dutchie> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is dutchie.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <ChrisWoollard> Here. Lovely
[16:02] <dutchie> ok, the agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[16:02] <dutchie> ah, we have a thishumphreybc
[16:02] <thishumphreybc> can't sleep
[16:02] <thishumphreybc> figured I may as well pop along
[16:03]  * highvoltage waves
[16:03] <dutchie> hi highvoltage
[16:03] <dutchie> and hi czajkowski as well
[16:03] <highvoltage> hi dutchie
[16:03] <dutchie> so everyone have an agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings?
[16:03] <JasonCook599> I do
[16:03] <semioticrobotic> right-o
[16:03] <brandonj> got it
[16:04] <dutchie> wonder where godbyk/jenkins are
[16:04] <jenkins> here
[16:04] <thishumphreybc> dutchie: link to the pad too?
[16:04] <dutchie> i don't have a link
[16:04] <dutchie> #endmeeting
[16:04] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:04.
[16:04] <c7p> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/baZkHCQiMu
[16:04] <dutchie> right, wait until everyone's here
[16:04] <thishumphreybc> that was quick
[16:04] <czajkowski> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/baZkHCQiMu
[16:04] <highvoltage> heh @ 10:04
[16:04] <semioticrobotic> wow, we're really getting efficient with this meeting thing
[16:05] <dutchie> godbyk said he'd be along
[16:05] <dutchie> oh well
[16:05] <dutchie> try again
[16:05] <dutchie> #startmeeting
[16:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is dutchie.
[16:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:05] <brandonj> take 2
[16:05] <dutchie> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[16:06] <dutchie> etherpad: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/baZkHCQiMu
[16:06] <dutchie> ok, let's begin
[16:06] <dutchie> [TOPIC] Lucid-e2 or Maverick?
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid-e2 or Maverick?
[16:06] <jenkins> mavrick has my vote
[16:06] <dutchie> The motivation behind this point is that we've only got 2 months till the maverick release
[16:07] <thishumphreybc> we can still release e2
[16:07] <brandonj> We can always delay lucid-e2 until after Maverick
[16:07] <Muscovy> I think we ought to really get going on Maverick.
[16:07] <jenkins> lucid will be around for a while and can be done in the background
[16:07] <dutchie> i aree with brandonj and jenkins
[16:07] <thishumphreybc> has everyone seen my timeline graphic?
[16:07] <c7p> jenkins: +1
[16:07] <dutchie> i think we need to shift along with maverick
[16:07] <dutchie> thishumphreybc: no?
[16:07] <ChrisWoollard> me too.
[16:07] <thishumphreybc> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/dev-infographic.png
[16:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/dev-infographic.png
[16:08] <thishumphreybc> We've already fixed most of the bugs in the Lucid e2 branch. It's just a matter of putting a new cover on and releasing it.
[16:08] <brandonj> Is the translation stuff set to go though?
[16:08] <ChrisWoollard> the cover in on
[16:08] <semioticrobotic> seems like a very small window in which to release lucid-e2 ... can we hit that?
[16:08] <dutchie> brandonj: the translations stuff only takes a few minutes to set up
[16:08] <ChrisWoollard> i did that earlier
[16:09] <dutchie> i haven't really been keeping up with e2 progress
[16:09] <JasonCook599> i think that lucid e-2 should be released. requires little work and will fix many mistakes for the lts
[16:09] <thishumphreybc> we fixed over 250 bugs thanks to the competition
[16:09] <thishumphreybc> there is no downside to releasing e2 in a week
[16:09] <dutchie> there are still 102 bugs targeted for e2
[16:09] <jenkins> there are minor errors that need fixing in it still like there is a graphic worng and a random ) . I haev only looked at the firts bit
[16:09] <ChrisWoollard> most of those are fixed
[16:09] <thishumphreybc> what status are they?
[16:10] <ChrisWoollard> there are only a handful of open ones
[16:10] <thishumphreybc> I thought most of them were fix committed.
[16:10] <dutchie> ah, most are committed
[16:10] <dutchie> we could probably bring that release forward
[16:10] <thishumphreybc> yeah
[16:10] <ChrisWoollard> we could do with another proof read but that is probbly it
[16:11] <thishumphreybc> we can release e2 whenever
[16:11] <c7p> yap
[16:11] <thishumphreybc> I just made up the August 16th date
[16:11] <dutchie> so we will say release e2 asap
[16:11] <brandonj> someone should be put in charge of that
[16:11] <ChrisWoollard> we should aim for your suggested date.
[16:11] <dutchie> well, godbyk's normally in charge of releases
[16:12] <godbyk> Okay, I'm here now.
[16:12] <godbyk> And I just heard my name.
[16:12] <thishumphreybc> next Monday seems fine
[16:12]  * godbyk hurries to read the backlogs. :)
[16:12] <thishumphreybc> gives us time to sort out some last things, prep some posts and the website etc
[16:12] <thishumphreybc> upload to Lulu
[16:12] <dutchie> week sounds good to me
[16:12] <JasonCook599> i think monday is a attainable goal
[16:12] <dutchie> if it's ok with godbyk
[16:12] <brandonj> agreed
[16:13] <jenkins> I think it depends on how much time godbyk has
[16:13] <c7p> i think someone should list all the open bugs and then put some members of the team to fix them
[16:14] <dutchie> c7p: easy enough to get a list off LP
[16:14] <c7p> nice
[16:14] <dutchie> c7p: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/edition-2 is what i'm looking at now
[16:14] <ChrisWoollard> I think some people should look at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/lucid-e2.pdf to seem if it looks ok.
[16:14] <dutchie> there are 8 which require further access
[16:14] <dutchie> action*
[16:15] <dutchie> so once we've heard from godbyk we can move on
[16:15] <godbyk> okay, I'm up to speed now.
[16:15] <dutchie> godbyk: so does a monday release of e2 sound good to you?
[16:15] <godbyk> I'm leaning toward an e2 release primarily because 10.04 is an LTS.
[16:16] <godbyk> It'd be good to have a manual that's up to date and as bug-free as possible for the LTS.
[16:16] <thishumphreybc> yes
[16:16] <thishumphreybc> I want to get that behind us so we can focus on Maverick
[16:16] <godbyk> sure, Monday would be fine.
[16:16] <dutchie> [ACTION] lucid-e2 to be released on Monday August 16th
[16:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lucid-e2 to be released on Monday August 16th
[16:16] <godbyk> For the release of e2, it should be pretty easy.
[16:16] <thishumphreybc> speaking of maverick, there isn't really that much to be focusing on (yet)
[16:16] <godbyk> I just have to generate the PDFs, upload to our website and lulu.com, and we're done.
[16:16] <thishumphreybc> which is a bit of a problem I think we'll always run into
[16:16] <dutchie> thishumphreybc: hang on, we'll tidy up this topic then move on
[16:17] <thishumphreybc> kk
[16:17] <dutchie> i'm sure that thishumphreybc can get announcements out in a nice non-inflammatory way
[16:17] <ChrisWoollard> lol
[16:17] <thishumphreybc> I can try, not making any promises though :P
[16:17] <dutchie> perhaps when you've woken up, you can write a post
[16:17] <godbyk> I'd say the biggest challenge for e2 is getting the remaining bugs fixed.
[16:17] <dutchie> yep, we don't need to devote any more meeting time though
[16:18] <dutchie> so, moving on
[16:18] <dutchie> i think we can skip discussion of docs/learning collaboration for now
[16:18] <thishumphreybc> I'm going to write a post updating the community on our progress this week
[16:18] <dutchie> [TOPIC] Documenting the release process
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Documenting the release process
[16:19] <dutchie> It's important that we have a checklist for releasing both the English and translated versions so we don't forget stuff
[16:19] <thishumphreybc> yeah
[16:19] <thishumphreybc> hmm
[16:19] <c7p> we have already a translation todo list, it's a starting point
[16:19] <godbyk> Here's our translation checklist: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo
[16:19] <semioticrobotic> yes, a great idea
[16:19] <thishumphreybc> I'd like to put this somewhere more formal
[16:19] <JasonCook599> checklists are alwasy good
[16:19] <dutchie> ideally, it can have proofreading from lots of different people
[16:19] <dutchie> a wiki page would probably be the right sort of thing
[16:20] <thishumphreybc> wiki page sounds good to me for now
[16:20]  * godbyk is entertained by the notion that a wiki page is considered 'more formal'. 
[16:20] <thishumphreybc> with the new ubuntu-manual.org site that daker is working on, we'll be able to have all this stuff nicely laid
[16:20] <ChrisWoollard> it is easy to edit
[16:20] <thishumphreybc> laid out, rather
[16:20] <dutchie> thishumphreybc: and editable by team members?
[16:20] <thishumphreybc> we can easily make it editable sure
[16:20] <dutchie> because that's what the wiki has going for it
[16:20] <ChrisWoollard> simple / quick / not over-engineered
[16:21] <thishumphreybc> but if we want to finalize some sort of structure for newcomers
[16:21] <thishumphreybc> isn't that what we want?
[16:21] <flan> Low beraucratic overhead?
[16:21] <thishumphreybc> so someone can get an idea of what they need to do easily
[16:21] <thishumphreybc> flan: yeah, exactly
[16:21] <dutchie> are you talking about contributions?
[16:21] <flan> Contributions and updates, I guess.
[16:21] <thishumphreybc> well who are we "documenting the release process" for?
[16:22] <dutchie> ourselves
[16:22] <JasonCook599> as well a new memebers
[16:22] <thishumphreybc> right, but in theory once we find a procedure that works we can stick to that
[16:22] <c7p> we should have in mind that this easy-editable material on wiki should be ready for translation at every time
[16:22] <godbyk> Can you give me an idea of the things you'd like to see listed in the release process?
[16:22] <JasonCook599> fixed bugs?
[16:23] <dutchie> building RC versions, getting proofreaders (for different chapters?)
[16:23] <thishumphreybc> c7p: yeah that's one of the things that wikis have going against them :(
[16:23] <thishumphreybc> so wait
[16:23] <ChrisWoollard> outstanding tasks
[16:23] <thishumphreybc> these are instructions?
[16:23] <dutchie> a checklist for when we release stuff
[16:23] <thishumphreybc> I'm confused as to what we're talking about now
[16:23] <thishumphreybc> okay
[16:23] <brandonj> doesnt launchpad fulfill some of this functionality?
[16:23] <thishumphreybc> can't we use blueprints?
[16:23] <thishumphreybc> and then just update the status as we go
[16:23] <thishumphreybc> you can assign things then too
[16:24] <dutchie> i don't think it needs to be that formal as having blueprints everywhere
[16:24] <thishumphreybc> it would be nice to have something cool and easy to understand on our website
[16:24] <dutchie> i could flesh out an example wiki page this afternoon
[16:24] <godbyk> okay
[16:24] <thishumphreybc> sort of like what the /getinvolved page is going to become (if anyone has seen the designs)
[16:25] <ChrisWoollard> Haven't seem them
[16:25] <dutchie> i'll do the example of what I'm thinking and then we can continue discussion on the ML/IRC/whatever
[16:25] <c7p> thishumphreybc: at this time the release process documentation is more necessary for the translated editors in my opinion
[16:25] <dutchie> sounds good to everyone??
[16:25] <dutchie> dunno why i put to ?s in there
[16:25] <semioticrobotic> dutchie, sounds good
[16:25] <ChrisWoollard> maybe you could creat wiki.ubuntu-manual.org for our stuff
[16:25] <godbyk> works for me.
[16:25] <dutchie> ChrisWoollard: no need for that when there's the main ubuntu wiki
[16:25] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: we could do that easily, yeah.
[16:25] <semioticrobotic> I thought we were moving away from that main ubuntu wiki?
[16:26] <jenkins> well then the wiki could be in our own style and fit the website
[16:26] <dutchie> [ACTION] dutchie to mock up sample release checklist wiki page
[16:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  dutchie to mock up sample release checklist wiki page
[16:26] <dutchie> right
[16:26] <ChrisWoollard> that would give ben something to design ;)
[16:26] <thishumphreybc> main ubuntu wiki does suck though
[16:27] <ChrisWoollard> agreed.
[16:27] <ChrisWoollard> i hoped it would also get a new theme.
[16:27] <semioticrobotic> yeah, I seem to recall thishumphreybc expressing an interest in moving away from the "main" wiki and under our own roof at ubuntu-manual.org
[16:27] <dutchie> detailing the process for translations: we've already got the etherpad doc, so i think that's covered
[16:27] <dutchie> i think daker wanted to talk about the website, but he's not around
[16:28] <dutchie> sooooo
[16:28] <JasonCook599> duthie: i think we wanted that done more formally (wiki)
[16:28] <dutchie> easy enough to copy-paste into a translated release checklist
[16:28] <thishumphreybc> new UMP site for anyone who hasn't seen it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/sets/72157624139515783/
[16:28] <ChrisWoollard> The wiki would be good because then you to link to all these various sources of information.
[16:28] <JasonCook599> yes, we have the content, just not the page
[16:28] <brandonj> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/sets/721576241
[16:28] <brandonj>                          39515783/
[16:28] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/sets/721576241
[16:28] <brandonj> oops, sorry
[16:29] <thishumphreybc> this was the getinvolved thing
[16:29] <thishumphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4698519305/in/set-72157624139515783/
[16:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4698519305/in/set-72157624139515783/
[16:29] <c7p> the get involved section of the site will be merged with the wiki ?
[16:29] <JasonCook599> that looks sharp
[16:29] <thishumphreybc> presenting processes and information to people like that definitely trumps using the ubuntu wiki
[16:29] <Muscovy> Those look like nice mockups.
[16:30] <c7p> nice design thishumphreybc
[16:30] <jenkins> we need a todo list of some form
[16:30] <thishumphreybc> looks better than that now, too
[16:30] <dutchie> [TOPIC] Website discussion
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Website discussion
[16:30] <dutchie> since we're there already
[16:30] <thishumphreybc> for internal todo lists we can just use etherpad I think
[16:31] <dutchie> so we've got lots of mockups
[16:31] <dutchie> which i presume daker is implementing now?
[16:31] <thishumphreybc> daker and I have talked about the site lots
[16:31] <thishumphreybc> yeah, he's starting work (or started) already
[16:31] <thishumphreybc> also working on http://quickshot.org
[16:32]  * flan plays the still-doesn't-have-Internet-access-at-home card.
[16:32] <dutchie> so that's looking quite cool
[16:32] <jenkins> I think we need more website devs to help daker
[16:32] <jenkins> he does work so hard
[16:33] <dutchie> we probably do
[16:33] <semioticrobotic> agreed.  that guy must be seriously snowed under
[16:33] <thishumphreybc> here's the site with the new ubuntu pictograms
[16:33] <thishumphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ubuntu/ump-index.png
[16:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ubuntu/ump-index.png
[16:33] <thishumphreybc> we definitely need more web developers
[16:33]  * thishumphreybc worked with Dom Edmunds from the canonical design team on the pictograms
[16:34] <semioticrobotic> thishumphreybc, I was just admiring those
[16:34] <dutchie> are there plans for website content beyond what's on there now?
[16:34] <c7p> btw we should remove the "translated in more than 50 kanguages" feature on site :P
[16:34] <thishumphreybc> c7p: haha, yes
[16:34] <thishumphreybc> it's a bit of a lie :P
[16:34] <ChrisWoollard> maybe one day
[16:35] <c7p> a bit :p
[16:35] <dutchie> so the next sub-topic is the bug form
[16:35] <semioticrobotic> :)
[16:35] <dutchie> which is something to do with me
[16:35] <thishumphreybc> yay bug form
[16:36] <dutchie> up and running in some form now actuall
[16:36] <dutchie> http://bugs.ubuntu-manual.org/
[16:36] <semioticrobotic> something to replace the Google Docs solution we had in lucid-e1?
[16:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.ubuntu-manual.org/
[16:36] <thishumphreybc> semioticrobotic: yep
[16:36] <semioticrobotic> hooray!!
[16:36] <dutchie> this even magically pushes it to LP
[16:36] <jenkins> can we crash dutchies vps by all clicking it
[16:36] <ChrisWoollard> it seems slow
[16:36] <thishumphreybc> it's super slow :P
[16:37] <dutchie> yes, it could probably do with a speed improvement
[16:37] <thishumphreybc> so we just need daker to apply some CSS right?
[16:37] <semioticrobotic> yeah, slow, but otherwise an excellent tool
[16:37] <semioticrobotic> and it pushes to LP?  amazing
[16:37]  * thishumphreybc seriously needs to find more web developers
[16:37] <dutchie> http://docs.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/Doc?docid=0ARIi6BtbYjOIZGhiNndmbjlfMDR6aDN4YnBy&hl=en_GB
[16:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://docs.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/Doc?docid=0ARIi6BtbYjOIZGhiNndmbjlfMDR6aDN4YnBy&hl=en_GB
[16:37] <dutchie> suggestions in there please
[16:37] <Muscovy> I guess that can't integrate with Launchpad, can it?
[16:37] <dutchie> it is integrated with launchpad
[16:38] <thishumphreybc> everyone, ask around if you have any web developers!
[16:38] <dutchie> i think that's the main reason it's so slow
[16:38] <dutchie> because launchpadlib is SLOOOOOOOOOW
[16:38] <thishumphreybc> Muscovy: dutchie is clever. He created a new user who reports bugs from the form.
[16:38] <Muscovy> That's cool. :D
[16:38] <semioticrobotic> yeah, really cool guys
[16:39] <thishumphreybc> I think we can probably incorporate that nicely into the new website
[16:39] <thishumphreybc> but yeah, daker has so much on his plate
[16:39] <thishumphreybc> he's doing the job of at least 3 people in half a reasonable amount of time
[16:39] <JasonCook599> thishumphreybs: I am a *very* amature web developer. I may be able to help (or more likely, hinder) daker
[16:40] <thishumphreybc> it's quite hard working with daker because he speaks little english
[16:40] <thishumphreybc> but hey, that's half the fun of open source :P
[16:40] <semioticrobotic> :)
[16:40] <JasonCook599> I speak english and a *little* french
[16:40] <dutchie> and the final subtopic is "Forum or not"
[16:41] <brandonj> what would be the goal of a forum?
[16:41] <c7p> i've just reported a test bug about a Spelling, grammar or punctuation error of a translated edition, it worked but it worth daying that i can't see anywhere on the title which language the bug refers to
[16:41] <semioticrobotic> a forum for the new website?
[16:41] <c7p> FORUM !
[16:41] <dutchie> if that's "should we install forum software on ubuntu-manual.org", the answer is "almost certainly not"
[16:41] <jenkins> people don't use the mailing list that  people barely use
[16:41] <dutchie> i believe it's possible to get a subforum on ubuntuforums.org (the main ones)
[16:41] <thishumphreybc> no we do not need a forum
[16:41]  * semioticrobotic is not a fan of forums
[16:41] <ChrisWoollard> i vote no
[16:41] <jenkins> a forum would be fun but not needed
[16:41] <brandonj> don't need a forum
[16:42] <dutchie> that seems fairly unanimous
[16:42] <dutchie> no forums
[16:42] <thishumphreybc> so
[16:42] <dutchie> or even fora
[16:42] <semioticrobotic> keep in mind that once we have a forum, we also need someone to TEND that forum
[16:42] <thishumphreybc> is everyone quite happy now with what's happening?
[16:42] <godbyk> what would be the purpose of a forum?
[16:42]  * flan speaks broken conversational French.
[16:42] <flan> (Late)
[16:42] <thishumphreybc> godbyk: I have no idea
[16:42] <dutchie> [TOPIC] Regularly scheduled meetings
[16:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Regularly scheduled meetings
[16:42] <c7p> it is very helpful for the translation process, people don't submit to MLs anymore
[16:42] <ChrisWoollard> What was the point of a forum?
[16:42] <Muscovy> What would we do with a forum? We've got the official forums for help and LP for bugs already.
[16:42] <dutchie> i think meetings are pretty important
[16:43] <jenkins> yep agreed
[16:43] <dutchie> yeah, we don't need a forum, let's discuss meetings now
[16:43] <godbyk> okay.
[16:43] <thishumphreybc> sure
[16:43] <ChrisWoollard> ok
[16:43]  * semioticrobotic agrees heartily with dutchie
[16:43] <thishumphreybc> well
[16:43] <thishumphreybc> this time sucks.
[16:43] <godbyk> I'm for having regular meetings.
[16:43] <brandonj> scheduled meetings would be wonderful
[16:43] <dutchie> without meetings, the whole team sort of slows down and gets bored
[16:43]  * ChrisWoollard sweeps forums under the carpet
[16:43] <godbyk> As long as they're not so frequent that we never have anything to say/discuss.
[16:43] <brandonj> perhaps we can rotate times?
[16:43] <thishumphreybc> it would have to be at 2000 - 2200 UTC.
[16:43] <JasonCook599> this would be wonderful
[16:43] <thishumphreybc> or
[16:43] <thishumphreybc> rotate times
[16:43] <JasonCook599> godbyk:bi-weekly?
[16:44] <thishumphreybc> yeah
[16:44] <thishumphreybc> every fortnight
[16:44] <thishumphreybc> twice a month
[16:44] <thishumphreybc> once every 14 days
[16:44] <godbyk> JasonCook599: I was thinking that every other week sounds about right.
[16:44] <thishumphreybc> etc etc.
[16:44] <dutchie> every other week then
[16:44] <Muscovy> I like the sound of rotating the times.
[16:44] <semioticrobotic> sounds good to me
[16:44] <godbyk> thishumphreybc: Every 336 hours?
[16:44] <c7p> lol
[16:44] <thishumphreybc> every 20,160 minutes
[16:45] <ChrisWoollard> okano
[16:45] <ChrisWoollard> no
[16:45] <brandonj> enough of this madness
[16:45] <ChrisWoollard> don't calculat miliseconds
[16:45] <thishumphreybc> every 1,290,600 seconds?
[16:45]  * semioticrobotic 's head is going to explode
[16:45] <vdquynh> Hi everybody. Sorry I'm late
[16:45] <c7p> hi vdquynh
[16:45] <brandonj> hi vdquynh
[16:45] <dutchie> i've got lots of holidays coming up soon, so i can't really commit to much
[16:45] <thishumphreybc> ChrisWoollard: every 120 960 000 milliseconds?
[16:45] <ChrisWoollard> so, moving on
[16:45] <c7p> enough of the sec stuff, move on
[16:46] <thishumphreybc> I'm going to be super busy from now till October, i'm afraid
[16:46] <dutchie> [ACTION] Meetings to be scheduled every 2 weeks
[16:46]  * ChrisWoollard slaps forehead
[16:46] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Meetings to be scheduled every 2 weeks
[16:46] <thishumphreybc> but then I have three months of summer holidays where I can work full time on Ubuntu.
[16:46] <dutchie> that's pretty much all of the agenda gone through then
[16:46] <dutchie> so
[16:46] <thishumphreybc> and my plan is to get USLC started over summer
[16:46] <semioticrobotic> nice work, dutchie
[16:46] <dutchie> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:46] <thishumphreybc> AOB?
[16:46] <dutchie> (any other business)
[16:46] <thishumphreybc> yeah
[16:46] <thishumphreybc> so
[16:46] <thishumphreybc> as I was saying
[16:47] <thishumphreybc> I'm going to be really, really busy till October
[16:47] <brandonj> are we actually going to schedule the meeting?
[16:47] <dutchie> brandonj: after AOB
[16:47] <brandonj> right
[16:47] <c7p> is there any list of UM's members and their roles ?
[16:47] <thishumphreybc> is everyone happy with the timeline for maverick?
[16:47] <JasonCook599> what day of the week? mondays?
[16:47] <thishumphreybc> c7p: probably the credits in the manual
[16:47] <thishumphreybc> or ubuntu-manual.org/credits?
[16:47] <godbyk> c7p: I don't know that there's an up-to-date list.
[16:47] <brandonj> maverick timeline seems fine
[16:47] <semioticrobotic> Similarly, I begin my doctoral work in two weeks.  I might initially struggle to help with the project, but I'd like to do whatever I can in the editing department
[16:47] <thishumphreybc> is it /credits or contributions... not sure
[16:47] <godbyk> JasonCook599: I think weekends work best.
[16:48] <dutchie> can we get the maverick time line published somewhere obvious?
[16:48] <thishumphreybc> weekends suit me
[16:48] <brandonj> on the etherpad there was talk of people being assigned specific jobs.  I think we need more of that.
[16:48] <thishumphreybc> dutchie: It will be in my blog post
[16:48] <ChrisWoollard> put it on the wiki
[16:48] <dutchie> thishumphreybc: thought so
[16:48] <thishumphreybc> I'll do a summary of everything and stick it on planet ubuntu
[16:48] <thishumphreybc> and planet UMP
[16:48] <dutchie> great
[16:48] <thishumphreybc> and email it to the list
[16:48] <dutchie> if that's all the AOB, then...
[16:48] <thishumphreybc> and sing it on the mountaintops
[16:48] <c7p> string freezing date for 10.10 ?
[16:48] <brandonj> on the etherpad there was talk of people being assigned specific jobs.  I think we need more of that.
[16:48] <JasonCook599> godbyk: I don't know how many weekends I can attend. I am very busy on weekends. perphaps a poll on the mailing list
[16:49] <thishumphreybc> c7p: I think Sep 10th?
[16:49] <thishumphreybc> brandonj: we sort of had a structure of teams
[16:49] <brandonj> "sort of"
[16:49] <thishumphreybc> editing team, writing team, design team, translators, web development, quickshot
[16:49] <thishumphreybc> each team had a head too
[16:49] <thishumphreybc> we even have a team lead mailing list
[16:49] <c7p> one month for translation ... i hope will make it till 10th of October
[16:49] <godbyk> that may have to be revisited depending on who will be around for this release.
[16:49] <thishumphreybc> I think that worked okay provided everyone actually had time to work
[16:50] <dutchie> yep
[16:50] <thishumphreybc> but unfortunately this lull was created because we all got busy
[16:50] <dutchie> [TOPIC] Next meeting date/time
[16:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting date/time
[16:50] <godbyk> c7p: yeah, I think (hope) we'll be able to reuse a lot of the existing translations.
[16:50] <thishumphreybc> yeah
[16:50] <thishumphreybc> there shouldn't be that many textual changes for maverick
[16:50] <thishumphreybc> and we're removing a lot of stuff anyway
[16:50] <dutchie> if we aim for 2 weeks, that's around the 22nd
[16:50] <c7p> godbyk: so do I, i hope lp won't mess things up again !
[16:51] <ChrisWoollard> Was lucid e2 going to be copied to maverick?
[16:51] <thishumphreybc> ChrisWoollard: yeah
[16:51] <dutchie> ChrisWoollard: yes
[16:51] <dutchie> how about 22nd at 2000 UTC?
[16:51] <c7p> sounds good to me
[16:51] <thishumphreybc> dutchie: what day is that?
[16:51] <dutchie> sunday
[16:51] <ChrisWoollard> when?
[16:51] <godbyk> dutchie: works for me. saturday at that time is fine, too.
[16:51] <dutchie> 2 weeks yesterday
[16:52] <dutchie> i won't be around on the saturday
[16:52] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: 2000 UTC
[16:52] <thishumphreybc> which is... what day for me. Monday for me at 10am right?
[16:52] <godbyk> dutchie: fair enough
[16:52] <dutchie> thishumphreybc: your time zone, you sort it out :P
[16:52] <ChrisWoollard> that is good
[16:52] <thishumphreybc> wait
[16:52] <thishumphreybc> 8am
[16:52] <godbyk> thishumphreybc: I've decided that you're just on the wrong side of the planet. :-)
[16:52] <thishumphreybc> 8am is gay
[16:52] <thishumphreybc> :P
[16:52] <dutchie> awwwww diddums
[16:52] <thishumphreybc> godbyk: i'm on the right side :P
[16:52] <dutchie> ok, 22nd at 2000UTC
[16:52] <dutchie> and we're done
[16:52] <ChrisWoollard> but i wondered when the e2 to maverick would be copied
[16:52] <thishumphreybc> righto
[16:53] <c7p> wait
[16:53] <dutchie> #endmeeting
[16:53] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:53.
[16:53] <thishumphreybc> ChrisWoollard: ASAP
[16:53] <dutchie> ooh, sorry c7p
[16:53] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: after we release it, I'll copy the files over.
[16:53] <c7p> what about the other translated editions
[16:53] <c7p> dutchie: np
[16:53] <thishumphreybc> i haven't checked the branches recently.. how much cruft is still in them?
[16:53] <ChrisWoollard> ok thanks
[16:53] <dutchie> thishumphreybc: if i write up the minutes, will you email the list/blog?
[16:53] <thishumphreybc> I remember we ended up having huge branches. Can we remove all the unrelated stuff?
[16:53] <semioticrobotic> anyone heard from Jamin Day lately?
[16:53] <dutchie> thishumphreybc: no
[16:53] <thishumphreybc> dutchie: sure
[16:53] <thishumphreybc> dutchie: no?
[16:54] <dutchie> no, it's a DVCS, the big files are in there forever :(
[16:54] <thishumphreybc> cock
[16:54] <thishumphreybc> we should have more smaller branches rather than less large branches. minimizes stuff like merges when it gets busy
[16:55] <dutchie> yep
[16:55] <godbyk> dutchie: there's no way to start a clean/fresh 'branch'?
[16:55] <c7p> we need a Serbian,a Galician,a Asturian, a Vietnamese and a Tamil editor for the translated editions, mail to LoCo teams ?
[16:55] <thishumphreybc> maybe we should start a fresh branch for maverick and just copy over the relevant things for the first commit.
[16:55] <thishumphreybc> what is currently in the branch that shouldn't be there?
[16:56] <thishumphreybc> old website files, quickshot stuff, old readmes, screenshots etc?
[16:56] <godbyk> c7p: I think we have a few of those: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/TranslationEditors
[16:56] <godbyk> thishumphreybc: that's what I did for lucid-e2 and maverick.
[16:56] <thishumphreybc> godbyk: great
[16:56] <thishumphreybc> so the branch isn't like 2GBs anymore
[16:57] <thishumphreybc> i swear it took a day to download for me from fresh because my ISP throttles bzr or something.
[16:57] <c7p> godbyk: great so mail them and if they need some help with the latex syntax errors etc, I'm available
[16:57] <godbyk> c7p: I'll send an email today about it.
[16:57] <thishumphreybc> oh and everyone, as for the docs and learning team, let's forget about that until after maverick
[16:57] <c7p> godbyk: nice
[16:57] <semioticrobotic> okay, thishumphreybc
[16:57] <brandonj> that sounds reasonable
[16:58]  * thishumphreybc thinks that thishumphreybc might not have been the best choice for a nick. It's meant to be a reference to OOP in python...
[16:58] <JasonCook599> thishumphreybc: will you be sendng them an emai?
[16:58] <semioticrobotic> yeah, once the pressing release is out the door, we can focus on collaborations :)
[16:58] <JasonCook599> email
[16:58] <thishumphreybc> JasonCook599: when I have a break over (my) summer starting in november, I can work full time with them on stuff.
[16:58] <c7p> any idea how will we attract more developers ? (maybe a post to OMG!Ubuntu would help)
[16:59] <thishumphreybc> hmm
[16:59] <brandonj> c7p: we can just kidnap them from other projects
[16:59] <thishumphreybc> I think we really need more web developers
[16:59] <c7p> haha
[16:59] <godbyk> I think we need to lay out clear goals/plans/etc. before recruiting developers.
[16:59] <c7p> yeah
[16:59] <thishumphreybc> poor daker :(
[16:59] <thishumphreybc> yeah
[16:59] <thishumphreybc> well
[16:59] <semioticrobotic> gotta run, friends.  thanks for a good meeting
[16:59] <godbyk> (Just so we have things lined up and ready for them to work on.)
[16:59] <thishumphreybc> the new site might entice people :P
[16:59] <godbyk> See ya, semioticrobotic.
[16:59] <JasonCook599> thishumphreybc: just to let them know we will postphone colaboration
[16:59] <thishumphreybc> "look at this sexy project!"
[16:59] <c7p> godbyk: I agree
[16:59] <c7p> cu semioticrobotic
[17:00] <thishumphreybc> JasonCook599: At the pace they work, they won't notice that nothing has happened till November anyway.
[17:00] <godbyk> thishumphreybc, JasonCook599: I don't see why the collaboration discussions can't continue. It's not as if they're terribly time-consuming at the moment, after all.
[17:00] <JasonCook599> thishumphreybc: cool
[17:00] <brandonj> I agree with godbyk on this
[17:00] <thishumphreybc> godbyk: the discussions can continue but I'd rather we focus work starting later
[17:00] <thishumphreybc> ideally I'd like to have all the plans and specs laid out BEFORE maverick is released
[17:00] <godbyk> thishumphreybc: At the rate the discussions are going, I don't think anyone's rushing in to start coding anything at the moment. ;-)
[17:01] <thishumphreybc> and then we just kick up a huge stink, get all these people working on it
[17:01] <thishumphreybc> yeah
[17:01] <thishumphreybc> so
[17:01] <thishumphreybc> if you guys could keep that up
[17:01]  * thishumphreybc isn't in the collaboration discussion because he just gets angry and isn't technical enough to make decisions on languages etc
[17:02] <c7p> i think the learning centrer is huge milestone for our project, keep on ;)
[17:02] <godbyk> In other words, I think that no change is necessary, ergo, no need to notify anyone of anything.
[17:02] <thishumphreybc> sure
[17:02] <JasonCook599> that sounds right
[17:02] <thishumphreybc> we need to advertise USLC as the next best thing since sliced bread
[17:02] <thishumphreybc> so we can get developers
[17:02] <thishumphreybc> but we can advertise it until we know what we want
[17:02] <thishumphreybc> cant*
[17:02] <c7p> good idea
[17:03] <slidinghorn> I apologize for my tardiness, was there anything big I missed?
[17:03] <thishumphreybc> so we figure out what we want including details about language it's written in, specifications for use, content, workflow, etc etc, and then when we have all the specs laid out in some fancy PDF file we can advertise it.
[17:03] <thishumphreybc> slidinghorn: not really. I'll do a summary post in the next couple of days.
[17:04] <c7p> slidinghorn: check the logs if you want http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/09/%23ubuntu-manual.html#t16:06
[17:04] <thishumphreybc> I'm going to sleep now, well, i'm going to try to.
[17:04] <godbyk> 'kay. g'night, thishumphreybc.
[17:04] <c7p> thishumphreybc: bye
[17:05] <c7p> g2g too cu later
[17:05] <vdquynh> OK. I'll report towards the Vietnamese community. Bye evrybody
[17:05] <JasonCook599> bye everyone. I'm going to go have lunch. it noon here and I'm very hungary
[17:05] <ChrisWoollard> so you later everybody
[17:06] <brandonj> I'm with JasonCook599.  Lunch time!
[17:12] <godbyk> lunch for me, too.  bbiab.
[17:23] <jenkins> sorry we had to turn the electrics off so the internet went
[17:23] <jenkins> sorry flan
[17:30] <flan> No need to appologize.
[17:30] <flan> I have work to do anyway. =P
[17:31] <slidinghorn> ok just read over the meeting log -- basically what I gained from it was that the main point to which I'd be able to contribute is helping out with the web development for daker
[17:33] <jenkins> would you like to help slidinghorn ?
[17:33] <slidinghorn> any way I can
[17:39] <jenkins> slidinghorn: let me find his e-mail for you
[17:40] <slidinghorn> jenkins, cool
[17:49] <flan> Or we could teach him Python~
[17:49] <flan> <.<
[17:49] <flan> >.>
[17:51] <jenkins> we have to teach me first :P
[17:53] <flan> Doable.
[18:06] <jenkins> o flan we need to rewrite the debian rules file the one quickly gives is not any good
[18:07] <jenkins> something I am working on as well
[18:07] <jenkins> I will be back later as I need to do some stuff around the house
[18:07] <jenkins> bye all
[19:10] <jenkins> hey flan can you do your explanation another night please as we have a water leak to find in the house :(
[19:14]  * jenkins goes to try an work out whats causing it. I may be back at about 11 pm utc
[19:18] <daker> hi
[19:18] <daker> sorry i were unable to attend the meeting :s
[19:41] <thorwil> not even the language of implementation for the ULC has been decided on? i thought it could only by python. or scala. or erlang :)
[19:59] <ChrisWoollard> ping godbyk
[21:29] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: (belated) pong
[22:25] <jenkins> is there anyone out there who knows python and would like to help with quickshot? We are always looking for new help
[22:28] <godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard.
[22:28] <ChrisWoollard> Earlier I modifed the title pages with the e2 designs. Can you check that I didn't miss any?
[22:29] <ChrisWoollard> and or that i did it right
[22:30] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: did you translated second edition for all the languages?
[22:31] <ChrisWoollard> no, just english. I thought that was up to the translation teams
[22:31] <ChrisWoollard> so maybe i didn't finish it right
[22:32] <askhl_> jenkins, I know python.  I don't have all the time in the world though
[22:32] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: That'll work for the English stuff.  The the translations, you'd need to modify lines 434 and 435 of the ubuntu-manual.cls file.  (Or just ensure that the filenames for the cover pages stay the same as they are.  There's really no need to add 'e2' to the end of them since they're in the e2 repository.)
[22:33] <jenkins> askhl_: none of us do at the moment :( . If you have time I can explain about quickshot and the code as it is at the moment
[22:33] <ChrisWoollard> i just didn't want to over right the old ones. But I can sort that if you want
[22:34] <askhl_> jenkins, can I take a quick look first?  As in 'bzr branch...'
[22:34] <ChrisWoollard> i guess they don't matter though. they are in e1
[22:34] <jenkins> askhl_: server or gui ?
[22:34] <askhl_> oh my, it involves all sorts of networking?
[22:35] <askhl_> Well, I don't mind helping, but depending on how much code there is, it might be unfeasible in the near future
[22:35] <jenkins> gui lp:quickshot sever lp:quickshot/server . the server is to store and approve images and manage projects
[22:35] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: yeah, feel free to overwrite the old ones.  no sense cluttering up the repository with copies of old stuff.
[22:36] <jenkins> askhl_: both are being written from scratch this release last release was a rush
[22:37] <askhl_> I'm taking a look
[22:37] <jenkins> cool
[22:40] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: thanks
[22:42] <askhl_> (Isn't the directory name supposed to be etc/appoRt rather than etc/appot?)
[22:43] <jenkins> askhl_: you are right that was a typo I made yesterday
[22:43] <jenkins> good spot
[22:45] <jenkins> the branch does not have an ideal layout yet those folders are there so i remember where in the file system the apport files go. I need to write the debian rules file so that they get installed correctly. the current one by quickly is rubbish
[22:50] <askhl_> I don't know much about some of these libraries (networking stuff, pylons, ...).  It'll take a while before I can really look into it though (next two weeks will be quite busy)
[22:52] <jenkins> cool no rush askhl_ let us know when you have time. flan_ does the server stuff
[22:52] <askhl_> So what sort of things need to be done?
[22:53] <jenkins> I can only cover the gui but, theres the debian rules file, a setup.py file, interaction with the server, the proper detection of peoples graphics settings and restting them if the change does not work.
[22:54] <jenkins> theres packaging for other distors
[22:54] <jenkins> * distros
[22:54] <jenkins> but thats more of a long term goal
[22:55] <jenkins> designing a logo
[22:55] <askhl_> Doesn't it use distutils?  Is it difficult to make an rpm for example?
[22:59] <jenkins> I don't *think* it uses distutils I haev not written all of the gui. I have a link some where for rpms but have not got around to making one
[22:59] <askhl_> In any case, I'll stay around this channel.  These next two weeks I'll be preoccupied (or at least I'm supposed to be), but we can always talk later
[23:00] <askhl_> Well, the client-side one has a setup.py which uses the 'distutils extra'.  It has a command that generates an rpm.  Probably some extra tinkering is required to deal with dependencies (I know almost nothing about rpms).
[23:00] <jenkins> that sounds great askhl_
[23:01] <jenkins> I will only be on in utc evenings very soon as I start work
[23:04] <jenkins> I like this shape http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/kitchen/c4b5/ as part of the quickshot logo but it may be too much lie the fspot one
[23:05] <jenkins> click on the second image
[23:06] <jenkins> http://tinyurl.com/qslogo is the image
[23:07]  * jenkins likes thorwils stack off screenshots
[23:13] <jenkins> anyone got any ideas for a quickshot logo? perhaps ben could do a less controversial blog with a competion
[23:33] <jenkins> ok this is a very rough idea for a logo I am no artist http://imagebin.org/108868. any thoughts any one?
[23:33] <jenkins> flan_: ^
[23:33] <jenkins> the black will be transparent
[23:39] <jenkins> hey other flan
[23:42] <jenkins> are flan will not be at work any more . doh!
[23:46] <nisshh> jenkins: Rick appears to be back now, do you want to talk to him now?
[23:46] <jenkins> nisshh: if he is around i can
[23:47] <nisshh> jenkins: ok, hes in #quickly atm
[23:47] <jenkins> so am i lets see if hes is able to talk
[23:47] <nisshh> ok
[23:50] <askhl_> Now past 50% on Danish translation.  Booyeah..!
[23:51] <jenkins> yey