| === Ursinha-bbl is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-zzz | ||
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away | ||
| === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann | ||
| === cypher_ is now known as czajkowski | ||
| === noy_ is now known as noy | ||
| aday | meeting time? | 13:02 |
|---|---|---|
| wers | Hi aday | 13:02 |
| aday | wers, JanCBorchardt_: hey | 13:02 |
| JanCBorchardt_ | hey everyone | 13:02 |
| aday | andreasn: hola | 13:02 |
| andreasn | hey | 13:03 |
| JanCBorchardt_ | andreasn, here ;) | 13:03 |
| aday | no mpt.. i can't stay that long today. anything in particular that people want to talk about? | 13:05 |
| wers | mpt's on #ayatana, though | 13:06 |
| * aday fetches mpt | 13:07 | |
| mpt | hi | 13:08 |
| aday | mpt: hey | 13:08 |
| wers | brb | 13:08 |
| mpt | Sorry, I was so engrossed in specification writing that I forgot what time it was | 13:08 |
| mpt | Who's here? | 13:08 |
| aday | mpt: me, andreasn, wers, JanCBorchardt... | 13:09 |
| aday | vish: you here? | 13:09 |
| vish | yup , sorta | 13:09 |
| mpt | Anyone seen mgunes? He sent a proposed agenda | 13:10 |
| aday | nope | 13:10 |
| aday | is there anything on the agenda that people want to talk about? | 13:12 |
| mpt | mgunes mentioned the Update Manager redesign | 13:12 |
| mpt | I didn't know that blueprint existed, but I've been working on a specification <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdateHandling> | 13:13 |
| mpt | and devildante has implemented a couple of parts of it | 13:13 |
| mpt | He also mentioned the Firefox 4 "Firefox" button | 13:15 |
| mpt | Anyone want to say anything about that? :-) | 13:16 |
| * vish remembers wers' call for help! ;) | 13:17 | |
| andreasn | I spoke with Faaborg a bit about the Firefox button at the Mozilla Summit. He said he wanted to do what made most sense for the platform | 13:17 |
| mpt | The problem being multiple platforms | 13:17 |
| mpt | Gnome Shell and Unity taking quite different approaches to this | 13:17 |
| andreasn | yeah, he was really concerned about that specifically. | 13:18 |
| aday | i'm not that familiar with the workings of gtk-application... | 13:19 |
| vish | mpt: chrome doesnt have a menubar either.. | 13:19 |
| andreasn | maybe a config key, and then the netbooks variant can set "traditional-menu-whatever" to true and it would get a global menu thing | 13:19 |
| * thorwil says hi and skims log | 13:19 | |
| mpt | vish, it does on Mac OS X. At UDS we talked about using the same menus when the global menu bar is available | 13:19 |
| andreasn | as it's currently possible to set to "old regular menu" or "new one-button menu" on windows | 13:20 |
| vish | mpt: yes , in OSX , but in gnome , it doesnt right now , and it seems to work pretty well. | 13:20 |
| mpt | So, I guess there needs to be an easy way to tell "what environment am I in? is it Gnome Shell, or Unity, or something else?" | 13:21 |
| andreasn | I have no idea how to solve that | 13:21 |
| aday | seems like this is a conversation that needs to happen between the shell and unity people | 13:22 |
| andreasn | indeed | 13:23 |
| vish | aday: why mention it as " shell and unity people " ! :s | 13:23 |
| aday | vish: eh? | 13:23 |
| * vish not really liking that there are two groups.. | 13:23 | |
| vish | <aday> seems like this is a conversation that needs to happen between the shell and unity people | 13:24 |
| thorwil | current gnome, shell, unity ... makes me want to lean back, wait and see what happens | 13:24 |
| aday | vish: i don't like it either :) but that's the situation | 13:24 |
| vish | might be fun for the concerned parties to fight it out and come out victors but this is getting sorta ridiculous | 13:24 |
| aday | vish: do you know anybody working on both projects?! :) | 13:25 |
| andreasn | and neither of those are actually out, so what makes most sense to do _today_? | 13:25 |
| mpt | Unity will be released in UNE 10.10 | 13:25 |
| andreasn | October? | 13:25 |
| vish | yup | 13:25 |
| mpt | I mean, it will be shipped by default in UNE 10.10 | 13:26 |
| andreasn | and the desktop variant of both Suse, Fedora and Ubuntu will have the regular old panel and stuff when FF comes out in December-January | 13:27 |
| andreasn | and Shell is early March | 13:28 |
| andreasn | I like the button approach since it gives more space to actual web content, but I could live with a traditional menu for Firefox 4.0 too | 13:29 |
| andreasn | hey mgunes | 13:30 |
| mpt | hi mgunes :-) | 13:30 |
| mpt | The other thing mgunes raised was heuristic bug tagging | 13:30 |
| mpt | In <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-heuristics-and-bugs> I see a bunch of TODOs assigned to Canonical people | 13:30 |
| aday | andreasn: i couldn't, but i don't see what good us talking about this will do | 13:30 |
| mgunes | hi all; I'll be catching up. I have a flaky connection. | 13:30 |
| andreasn | I've been using heuristic bug tagging for Thunderbird a bit (on mozilla bugzilla). Working pretty good so far | 13:31 |
| andreasn | even though it takes a bit of time to get used to at first | 13:31 |
| mgunes | andreasn, is the use of it widespread on bugzilla? how many people actively tag bugs? | 13:32 |
| andreasn | right now it's me and Ludovic (the Thunderbird QA person) who are most active doing it | 13:32 |
| andreasn | and the Firefox UX people are starting to use it more and more | 13:32 |
| thorwil | what is the desired result, once those tags are in wide use? | 13:34 |
| andreasn | to be able to put more reason behind bug decisions and be able to establish a common vocabulary in bug reports | 13:36 |
| andreasn | and to be able to prioritize bugs, similar to what we do to, say, crashers | 13:36 |
| thorwil | ^^seems all that should be in the blueprint | 13:36 |
| aday | andreasn: do you have definitions or guidance that go along with each tag? | 13:37 |
| mgunes | and create some mindshare for design, since these would be among the official tags (there's a distinction in LP between a project's official bug tags and other arbitrary tags) | 13:37 |
| vish | actually it was mentioned somewhere.. | 13:37 |
| andreasn | http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2010/04/22/dont-talk-about-users/ | 13:37 |
| mgunes | http://uxmag.com/strategy/quantifying-usability | 13:38 |
| andreasn | http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tJxF8zTuLdEj9pUcxnLAemA&output=html | 13:38 |
| andreasn | I used it on a bug where someone was complaining about the dropdown buttons having an ugly color in the Windows theme | 13:39 |
| andreasn | but it was the same as all other similar controls in windows | 13:39 |
| andreasn | so I felt it was a case of ux-consistency, and made the bug WONTFIX | 13:40 |
| andreasn | then the reporter told me to fuck off, but that's a different story | 13:40 |
| thorwil | heh | 13:40 |
| mgunes | It should be relatively easier to apply it to an upstream project, since it has a narrower focus | 13:40 |
| andreasn | and everyone else subscribed to the bug agreed that this was indeed the sane outcome and that it should be consistent | 13:40 |
| andreasn | I was hoping for Ubuntu to try it out in action before I suggest applying it to GNOME | 13:41 |
| mgunes | since we have a large selection of packages, it might be a good idea to confine it to a specific set (desktop defaults? ayatana?), and to incoming bugs only. | 13:41 |
| andreasn | we ran it on uxprio-bugs on Thunderbird first | 13:42 |
| mgunes | hmm | 13:42 |
| andreasn | so yeah, start small | 13:42 |
| andreasn | just to learn your way around and to teach others | 13:42 |
| aday | gotta run, i'm afraid - see you all around | 13:43 |
| andreasn | because the most important part of it is to establish a way of talking in a common matter on UX issues | 13:43 |
| andreasn | and get away from "I think that..." or "My grandmother couldn't use that (I think)" | 13:44 |
| mgunes | andreasn, agreed; less bikeshedding, more common ground, hopefully | 13:44 |
| thorwil | i allowed myself to edit https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-heuristics-and-bugs | 13:44 |
| mgunes | mpt: do you know if ivanka considers the list of tags on the spec final, or can we add others? and can we help michael forrest with the HIG examples? | 13:45 |
| mgunes | I'd appreciate a log, by the way | 13:46 |
| andreasn | I think she wanted to start with just a couple of them, and then add the rest later | 13:46 |
| mpt | I just asked Michael about it, and he mumbled vaguely about getting around to it sometime. :-) I think he'd be happy if anyone took on the task themselves | 13:46 |
| andreasn | but it probably makes sense to end up with the same list as Faaborg in the end | 13:47 |
| mpt | Ivanka is away until the week after next. | 13:47 |
| mgunes | hmm, noted; thanks. | 13:47 |
| wers | back. look like I missed some stuff | 13:48 |
| * wers reads log | 13:48 | |
| * mgunes needs log | 13:48 | |
| andreasn | here is the bug btw https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577032 | 13:49 |
| ubottu | Mozilla bug 577032 in Message Compose Window "A horrible turquoise hover color appears." [Trivial,Resolved: wontfix] | 13:49 |
| JanCBorchardt_ | what about those bugs tagged »usability« (most often by the reporters themselves): https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=usability | 13:49 |
| mgunes | I guess the examples would have to be based on the "old" HIG for now? | 13:49 |
| mpt | JanCBorchardt_, that's not really a useful tag, because it can apply to so many different types of bug | 13:50 |
| andreasn | JanCBorchardt_, maybe they can be converted to more specific heuristic keywords. "Usability" is so broad | 13:51 |
| mgunes | I think those bugs might mostly be good candidates for initial evaluation beyond incoming bugs | 13:51 |
| JanCBorchardt_ | mpt: yep, exactly. I meant in a way of re-tagging | 13:52 |
| JanCBorchardt_ | or many times it may not be usability-related at all | 13:52 |
| === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away | ||
| === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann | ||
| mpt | ah right | 13:55 |
| mpt | So, are we done? | 13:56 |
| thorwil | "Should we push towards making more active use of the mailing list, or other resources such as the wiki or an IRC channel?" | 13:57 |
| mgunes | mpt, I guess I can find michael on #dx, if I am to take up the HIG examples part? | 13:57 |
| mpt | mgunes, he's michaelforrest, online but not in any channels at the moment. | 13:58 |
| JanCBorchardt_ | if any IRC channel, just #ayatana? | 14:00 |
| mpt | #ayatana suits me | 14:00 |
| JanCBorchardt_ | if we need any feedback from developers, they are there | 14:00 |
| mgunes | mpt, thanks | 14:00 |
| JanCBorchardt_ | or what are other IRC channels to join that are similar? | 14:01 |
| thorwil | ok, gone -> coffee :) | 14:01 |
| wers | I hope, there's a publicly accessible Google Wave | 14:01 |
| wers | stuff are much easier to track and organize there | 14:01 |
| mgunes | on the topic of resources, I think I can do an initial wiki home page similar to.. | 14:02 |
| mgunes | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam | 14:02 |
| wers | I hope aday's still here. he's good at wikis | 14:03 |
| wers | have you heard of Novell Pulse? is it going to be like an open source Google Wave? | 14:04 |
| mgunes | does anyone use Delicious or some other public bookmarking service? It might be a good idea to gather links of interest that we come across, both among ourselves and with the broader community | 14:04 |
| mgunes | wers, sounds similar to Etherpad | 14:06 |
| wers | mgunes, hmm yep | 14:09 |
| wers | I dunno.. there's just something about etherpad that doesnt make me so comfortable | 14:09 |
| * mgunes skims log | 14:09 | |
| wers | who's gonna be in GNOME.Asia this weekend? | 14:10 |
| wers | I'm flying to Taiwan tomorrow | 14:10 |
| === Ursinha-zzz is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch | ||
| === simar__mohaar is now known as simar | ||
| === Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === BlackZ_ is now known as BlackZ | ||
| === ubott2 is now known as ubottu | ||
| === kermiac-work is now known as kermiac | ||
| === Ng_ is now known as Ng | ||
| === cody-somerville_ is now known as cody-somerville | ||
| === jpds_ is now known as jpds | ||
| === Pendulum_ is now known as Pendulum | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!