/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/15/#ubuntu-manual.txt

MuscovyIs the release day still Sunday?02:34
nisshhMuscovy: should be :)02:39
godbykMuscovy: It'll be released on Monday, the 16th.02:45
=== april_g1 is now known as loonycookie
KE1HAanyone from the manual team around ?05:36
MuscovyI suppose I'm manual team, so yes.05:50
KE1HAHello, just a quick question, as far as writing a manual chapter goes, are we only allowed to use / write about applications that are part of the default installation?05:55
MuscovyI believe so.06:01
MuscovyAt the present at least, there's no "other neat applications" section.06:01
MuscovyThe closest is mentioning things like Wine and codecs.06:01
brandonjI would probably try to stay away from writing all new content now06:02
MuscovyThough a section akin to the software centre's Featured Applications might be a good idea for the 10.10 manual.06:02
brandonjIs e2 ready to go for monday?06:04
MuscovyI believe it is.06:05
brandonjwonderful!06:05
KE1HAThanks all, Im looking for a backup applicaiton, and there several in the repos, but none are installed by default.06:09
KE1HAWhich, I really dont understand why not.06:10
april_ghi everyone :)06:10
april_gi was wondering, do you have any plans of writing documentation for ubuntu netbook edition?06:10
brandonjI think a netbook edition was talked about, but right now we're focusing on getting lucid-edition2 and maverick out06:11
brandonjperhaps in the future?06:12
KE1HAthat's what I was told as well, focus on v2 then 10.1006:12
april_gok. i was actually interested in helping out with that.06:12
april_gis there anything that still needs doing for maverick?06:12
KE1HAWell, the Devs are doing allot of work on it still april_g its not do out until October.06:13
brandonjyes, maverick has lots to do06:13
KE1HAHowever, if you wnat to Join the Testing teams, you can get familiar with it at the early stages.06:13
april_gi meant in terms of the manual.  :) i'm not really sure about the process yet, but i'd really like to get into that06:13
april_gthanks KE1HA , i'll look into that :)06:14
KE1HAThey have have to finish the release before we could really start writing, I guess there will be commonalties, but safer to wait I'd think.06:15
brandonjapril_g: considering sending out an email to the ubuntu-manual mailing list, I'm not sure where we stand on Maverick stuff yet06:15
april_gthanks brandonj i'll do that as well :)06:15
KE1HAOn thing that will definitely help you is reading the styles guide and playing around with the markup lang.  and getting familiar06:17
KE1HATex is all new to me, so been learning allot from the guide.06:18
april_gI'm new to Tex as well. Im still messing around with it :)06:21
april_gthanks for the info guys! i appreciate it :)06:21
april_gi hope you don't mind if i just hang out here on irc06:22
april_g:)06:22
brandonjthe more the merrier06:27
brandonjunless you turn out to be a jerk06:27
brandonj=P06:27
KE1HAIt's nice to see activity in here, sometimes its rather quiet. I saw your e-mail the other day about joining (alt least I think it was yours) , so welcome aboard.06:28
april_gbrandonj i'm pretty nice, i think :) i haven't been told otherwise06:32
april_glol06:32
april_gthanks KE1HA06:32
OmegaUbuntu should have some sort of tutorial at first boot.06:33
OmegaA little walkthrough.06:34
KE1HAYou were a tech-0writer for a tech-dev company right? I spent many year in tech as well.06:34
KE1HAWhoop tech-writer ..06:34
OmegaLike, showing the user how to open the browser.06:34
OmegaAnd playing a song.06:34
OmegaMaking a odt document.06:34
april_gKE1HA yes, for several years06:35
MuscovyYou know, I wonder if we could see the manual become a part of the example content.06:35
KE1HAYeah, like take the Ubuntu tour or something?06:35
Omega,06:35
april_gOmega like a quick start guide?06:35
OmegaInstall a package.06:35
OmegaYes.06:35
OmegaBut, interactive.06:35
OmegaIt 'tracks' your progress.06:35
KE1HAI've tried to make those before, Im not too savvy at it, but they are neat.06:35
brandonjI think it needs one of those 'Welcome' videos like OS x06:36
brandonj</SARCASM>06:36
OmegaAnd tell the user about free replacements to some windows (or mac) apps that they are used to.06:36
april_gOmega having a tutorial like that would be cool, especially for those new to the system :)06:36
OmegaIt would help a lot.06:36
brandonjits a good idea Omega06:36
april_git would make ubuntu far less intimidating06:36
OmegaMaybe I should start a project like that.06:36
brandonjI would be interested in working on something like that06:36
OmegaCool.06:36
OmegaWe'll call it Ubuntu Tour or something like that.06:37
OmegaI'm open to suggestions :)06:37
brandonjI was never very good at thinking up names06:37
KE1HAWell, woking the Ubuntu answers on Launchpad, and the ubuntu channel, there 10 to maby 15 topis that are beat to death by new users every day, simple things, I think that would certainly help with that problem.06:37
OmegaAnd, it can let the user set up a launchpad account and submit his/her first bug :)06:38
KE1HALike how do I see / get my files on my windows box?06:38
OmegaAnd maybe explain what the "Home Folder" is, when they are only used to "My Documents"06:39
KE1HAHow do I get my music to play from windows, and it goes on an on an on. Simple things.06:39
OmegaIndeed.06:39
OmegaIt is those things that make the biggest impact on users.06:39
MuscovyOmega: I'd join that project. :D06:39
brandonjOmega: you should start this up06:39
brandonjI'm suprised nobody has done something like that before, actually06:40
april_gdefinitely Omega. i'd join this project06:40
OmegaWell, what should we call it guys?06:40
KE1HAFor idea, sit in the ubuntu channel fer about a weeks, and make a little matrix, on topics v.s. ho many time they are asked, that would eb a good starting point.06:40
OmegaMhm.06:41
OmegaIt would.06:41
brandonjtutelage!06:41
OmegaAlso, I'd like to look at how UM is organized06:41
MuscovyUbuntu Tour sounds good, if ordinary.06:41
KE1HAI think another area that needs help is, showing people "where to get help", there so many resources, people get lost in where to go.06:42
OmegaIndeed.06:42
OmegaSo, #ubuntu-tour is open06:43
OmegaBut, we can also hang out here06:43
KE1HAI think theres a Ubuntu-beginners channel already, may be worth while to explore what they done as well.06:43
KE1HAOmega, Organized, I would really like to see that structure also, but I guess that's the nature of open source, if can be very free-flowing.06:46
OmegaEh, I'm an anarchist, but organization is never bad :)06:47
KE1HAI hope you all don't have to proof anything I write, geezz, just looked at all those typos' LOL Not good !06:47
KE1HAI' not looking for the head of the ship or anything, just an overview would be nice.06:49
KE1HATake for instance, documentation on its on, There's the Manual, there's wiki's, systems docs, How-To's personal wiki's the forums, there's allot of stuff.06:50
april_gexactly KE1HA. it gets rather overwhelming06:50
KE1HAThen, the different distros, their cross overs, uniqueness etc etc .. somewhere there needs to be the Pond where all the water comes from :-)06:51
MuscovyA wiki page or something would probably be the best start.06:51
MuscovyIf people don't like the Ubuntu wiki, we could always throw a Mediawiki or something up.06:52
brandonjI think ubuntu manual will do for now06:53
brandonjerr06:53
brandonjubuntu wiki06:53
KE1HAI honestly dont know what the right answer is or could be. It's just a vast subject.06:53
MuscovyHmm.06:54
KE1HAI think the Documentations Team is the top level, as it branches to Systems, and Applications. Maybe that's where the manual should branch from, not sure.06:54
KE1HABut it seems focused on Ubuntu alone, then there's the Distro's.06:55
OmegaWhat programs/subjects should the tour cover?06:55
MuscovyThe manual would take a lot of converting, If another distro used it, I imagine it would mostly be for the Tex.06:55
brandonjgetting online06:55
MuscovyFirefox for sure.06:56
brandonjinstalling/updating packages06:56
april_gmight be good to include something about the organization of the files on ubuntu06:56
MuscovySoftware centre, a bit of Nautilus.06:56
brandonjand getting additional help06:56
Omegahttp://openetherpad.org/GUNcK2dx7506:56
OmegaWe can all add.06:56
KE1HABasic How too's fer sure. Instll Unix, Solaris or FreeBSD on a VM,  then write down the questions you get trying to do things, that's what new users to Ubuntu are faced with.06:56
brandonjdamn, why am I always pink?06:57
KE1HAI'd say, how yo just opened that pad would be a good one :-) Never new that could be done.06:58
KE1HAI can't get in the Pad thingy07:01
KE1HAapril_g1, how did you get in there ?07:01
april_g1you're already on there KE1HA :) i see your name07:02
=== april_g1 is now known as april_g
KE1HADo you type  just in the main frame ?07:03
MuscovyYes.07:03
KE1HAOk, never use this before, its pretty neat.07:03
=== april_g1 is now known as april_g
=== april_g1 is now known as april_g
KE1HAGood brainstorm session all, look fer you tomorrow.08:11
OmegaIndeed.08:11
april_gi just realized we haven't come up with a name yet. :) should we stick with ubuntu-tour?08:16
MuscovyI like it, but I'm not sure.08:17
MuscovyWhen in doubt, I'm going to look up synonyms.08:17
april_gok :) coz i don't know what to use as the name for the LP team.08:18
april_gso.. i think i'll just wait for the others on that08:18
MuscovyProbably best, yeah.08:22
MuscovyHmm, I guess ubuntu-tour.08:24
KE1HA+1 from me, it identifies well with the purpose.08:35
april_ghttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tour this should do for now08:41
april_gwe can update the details: ownership, description (to include goals and other pertinent information) tomorrow08:41
april_gshould we have the mailing list hosted on launchpad or do you guys prefer having it hosted somewhere else?08:41
MuscovyLaunchpad is fine, IMO.08:42
april_gok. i've also filed in a request for the mailing list on LP08:45
MuscovyI'll play around with a few logo ideas before I go to bed.08:46
MuscovyOh, mailing list is up already it seems.08:47
april_ggreat!08:49
KE1HAMan you all are flying though this :-)10:06
KE1HAapril_g, How did you create the LP ?10:06
april_gKE1HA: i justwent to launchpad.net and there was an option to create a team :)10:09
april_gi'll leave the creation of the project Omega :)10:10
KE1HAEasy Peezy :-)10:10
KE1HAI've not created one before, so was curious.10:10
april_gKE1HA i thought you guys went to sleep already :)10:12
KE1HANo, Im working on a Desktop-App-Testing matrix, looking at the cross-overs from UB / XUB/ EDUB10:14
nisshhKE1HA: sounds interesting, care to tell me more?10:17
nisshhapril_g: its only 5:17PM where i am10:17
nisshh:)10:17
april_gnisshh we're about the same :)10:17
nisshhapril_g: ah ok10:18
KE1HAYes sure it's the QA team, we test ISO's and Desktop applications on new Distrobuitons. Hold on, will get the linky10:18
nisshhKE1HA: ah, your on the QA team? cool :)10:18
KE1HAYeah, its allot of fun.10:18
KE1HAhttp://iso.qa.ubuntu.com'10:18
KE1HAhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures10:19
nisshhnice10:19
april_ginteresting :)10:19
april_gnisshh are you somewhere in asia?10:20
nisshhKE1HA: i thought about joining to QA team, but i decided manual + dev-manual + bugsquad + others is enough :)10:20
KE1HAWe're adding more and more Apps to the Desktop Apps fer testing, and there's nothign yet on Xubuntu and EDubuntu, so im working on that.10:20
nisshhapril_g: australia :)10:20
nisshhKE1HA: sounds awesome :)10:20
april_gKE1HA the QA thing looks really nice. :) altho i think i'll stick to the docs for now, seeing as I'm still new to all this10:21
KE1HAYeah, I was on the Hall of Fame for about three days Wooo-Hoo :-).. had the most tested ISO's fer a week :-)10:21
KE1HAWe also QA docs.10:22
nisshhnice10:22
april_gdoc QA might be something i can help with :)10:23
KE1HAYeah, I think its importand, the whoel End-User experience starts when they Install, and if it falls over, its a negative impact from then on aout.10:23
KE1HAImportant.10:23
nisshhyea10:23
nisshhalthough most end-users despise docs10:24
KE1HAYeah, definately, they only want a doc when somethign goes wrong.10:24
april_gnisshh ya. lol. they only consult docs when problems start piling up10:24
nisshhjenkins: i added you to the contributors for pytask for that apport stuff10:24
KE1HAThe they want it, right now, and only the Fix, no fluff.10:24
nisshhyea10:24
jenkinsthanks nisshh, I will give you a hand with the debian rules file I am getting there with quickshot's one10:24
nisshhjenkins: also, have you figured out that rules file stuff yet?10:25
nisshhah cool10:25
KE1HAOh hey, Quickshots also works on Xubuntu.10:25
KE1HAInstalled that yesterday to test it.10:25
jenkinsKE1HA: cool thanks, did you get quickshot form the ppa?10:25
nisshhKE1HA: nice, wouldnt surprise me if it did though, since Xubuntu uses A LOT of GNOME stuff from Ubuntu10:26
nisshhbrb10:26
jenkinsyep it does, i have yet to test it though, we are supporting kde and ldxe as well when i get around to it. eventually it would be nice to have a qt gui10:26
nisshhyea10:27
KE1HAjenkins, yes, just added the pps stuff, and installed, worked perfect.10:28
jenkinsthats good to hear :)10:28
KE1HAOpps PPA, not PPS10:28
KE1HAI've asked to be the Docs Lead fer Xubuntu, so if that pans out, gonna be buggin you gus allot about settign up bzr :-)10:29
KE1HAThat's why Im ding this Matrix also, I want to Identify all Standard Apps that happen at install, and ensure there's Docs covering all of them.10:29
KE1HAfor UB / XUB and EDUB10:30
KE1HAI just finished a New UB VM install, zsync-ing EDUB now, so will have all 3 in VM's for Docs.10:31
KE1HAWith no extra packages that is, as my UB install has a few extras, so it's no good fer docs and writing.10:31
jenkinsKE1HA: that sounds cool but in the next release there will be no need for bzr to use quickshot. but he is welcome to have a chat with us he can also e-mail quickshotdevs@list.launchpad.net as there are only two active devs at the moment10:33
KE1HA2 Devs for Quickshot ?10:33
jenkinsdevlopers working on quickshot10:34
KE1HArr ok .. understan. Why did you all descide to make Quickshot, does the standard screenshot app not do what's needed ?10:34
nisshhKE1HA: it was first developed to be used to take the screenshots for the manual :)10:35
nisshhKE1HA: since we have to take alot of very specific ones10:35
jenkinswell if you took a screenshot of you desktop now it would look different to mine. it means we can get the same screenshots in different langauges and upload them to the server for review.10:35
jenkinsalso at the same resolution with minimal work by the user10:36
KE1HAFor consistent shots all the time, makes sense.10:36
jenkinsand generally the error rate has been low.10:36
KE1HAThey look nice, works well10:36
KE1HASo is Quickshot going to replace screenshot ?10:37
jenkinsthanks, well we are rewriting it at the moment as that release was rather a rush.10:37
jenkinsdo you mean replace the default screenshot program?10:37
KE1HAyes10:37
jenkinsno it will not, quickshot is for projects to specify screenshots to be taken10:38
jenkinsfor their docs/webpages10:38
KE1HACool, hopefully it will be come the standard for all Web-Pages and Manuals10:39
jenkinsand docs :) thats the long term goal and across every distor10:40
KE1HAI got a quesiton about Wiki ... you know whaen you seach for an App / version of an app / package, the 9.04 / 9.10 / 9.10 / 10.04 TAB appear at the top, how can we add those ot out personal wiki's ?10:40
KE1HAOr I guess you could say, those TABS at the top of personal Wiki (Planet, Partners, Support etc) can we change them to somethign else ?10:42
jenkinscan you show an example page i don't look at the wiki very much10:42
KE1HAhttp://imagebin.org/10974010:44
KE1HASee the TABS there toward the TOP right, Ubuntu, Community, Support, Partners etc etc those tabs10:45
jenkinsI am not sure that is possible you could add a menu bar like the manual wiki does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual10:46
KE1HAOk, just wondering, may be part of the main page that we can't edit. Would be nice though.10:47
jenkinsyea I think it is part of the main page, their may be a way but i don't know of onw10:48
jenkinsone10:48
KE1HAr10:49
KE1HAI like that Image Pastebin, that's things neat too.10:49
jenkinsyep very usefull10:50
KE1HASo was that community notepad, that's great fer meetings.10:50
jenkinsetherpad?10:51
KE1HAIm not sure what it was called hold on, i BM'ed it.10:51
KE1HAYes, that's it.10:51
jenkinsbe back later today10:59
jenkinscya10:59
KE1HATTUL11:01
thorwilvish, flan_: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e11:23
vishthorwil: ooh! i like the first row second one..! :)  what size is that?11:24
thorwilvish: 4811:25
vishnice..11:26
vishthorwil: lol , you fell into the trap of using a camera ;p11:27
thorwilty. though, this stacking always seem to bring some unrest with it11:27
vishthorwil: snap!11:27
vishthorwil: exactly , we know about the app , so it makes sense , but for someone not familiar with it might take it to be a background chooser..11:28
thorwilvish: no, i just show the obvious and cheap after failing seeing once again that trying to be more sophisticated leads to a mess ;)11:28
* thorwil fails at sentence construction11:29
vish:)11:29
=== april_g is now known as aprilg
dakergodbyk, ping18:48
c7phi jenkins20:25
jenkinshey c7p20:25
jenkinsI don't suppose anyone here is registered as an android developer with google?20:33
jenkins*registered with google20:39
c7pso the e2 will be released tomorrow ?20:43
thorwiljenkins: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e20:44
jenkinsthorwil: cool some more ideas I like the last one on the bottom for the website. would you be able to do a stack of screenshots like in the original idea so that the corner is nearest the viewer? and put a camera on on top if that makes sense?20:47
jenkinsc7p: in theory i don't know how it is going20:47
jenkinsChrisWoollard: ^ ?20:47
thorwiljenkins: i'm not quite following20:48
jenkinsno problem i will do a sktech20:49
thorwiljenkins: please think "icon" and rip the word "add" out of your language for this here ;)20:49
ChrisWoollardhello20:55
semioticrobotichi ChrisWoollard20:56
semioticroboticAre we all set for a release tomorrow20:56
semioticrobotic?20:56
ChrisWoollardWe are probably almost there20:56
jenkinsthorwil: I am :) I am probably the worst person to try and do this for, thanks for persevering, http://imagebin.org/109811 see the corner circled. rotate that so it is facing the viewer so at 45 degrees to its current position and put a camera on top like the one you used in http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e20:56
jenkinsChrisWoollard: great!20:56
ChrisWoollardI am awaiting a screenshot from humphreybc20:56
semioticroboticvery good20:57
ChrisWoollardI also think i could proof read a couple more chapters too. but nothing major20:58
jenkinsare there any un fixed bugs ?20:59
semioticroboticyeah, how's the bug situation?21:00
ChrisWoollardlet me have a look21:00
jenkins4 left by the looks of it21:00
ChrisWoollardhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/61326621:00
manualbotLaunchpad bug 613266 in ubuntu-manual "Mixed use of "applications" and "programs"" [Undecided,New]21:00
ChrisWoollardhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/60908521:00
manualbotLaunchpad bug 609085 in ubuntu-manual "Inappropriate NetworkManager screenshot" [Medium,New]21:01
jenkinshttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/58236121:01
manualbotLaunchpad bug 582361 in ubuntu-manual "apt-get doesn't mention dist-upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed]21:01
thorwiljenkins: i don't get how you want that rotation. but i'll log out soon. maybe i'll try a stack like that another day21:01
ChrisWoollardthere is also https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/56188321:01
manualbotLaunchpad bug 561883 in ubuntu-manual "missing tags" [Low,In progress]21:01
jenkinsok thanks thorwil21:01
jenkinsI will try and draw one my self I should learn inkscape21:02
jenkinshttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/56243921:02
manualbotLaunchpad bug 562439 in ubuntu-manual "doubling informations" [Medium,Confirmed]21:02
jenkinshttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/58477221:03
manualbotLaunchpad bug 584772 in ubuntu-manual "File system structure needs descriptions" [Undecided,In progress]21:03
jenkinsthats all i can see21:03
ChrisWoollardalso it appears there are a bunch that are confirmed21:04
ChrisWoollardhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=Confirmed21:04
ChrisWoollardbug 584772 is the one that ben is workin on. He promised he would do it tonight21:06
manualbotLaunchpad bug 584772 in ubuntu-manual "File system structure needs descriptions" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58477221:06
semioticroboticthe bug regarding apt-get might be a non-issue once most of the command line stuff has been removed21:08
ChrisWoollardI will have a look at some of the bugs in an hour21:08
ChrisWoollardthat is for maverick though, not e221:09
godbykI'll be running things through spell-check and trying to add some more index entries later today, too.21:10
godbykWe should see if we can get those final bugs fixed, however.21:10
godbykHave you pestered Ben and Jason recently about the bugs they've committed to?21:10
semioticroboticah, okay21:11
jenkinshttp://imagebin.org/109820 another quickshot icon idea any thoughts vish?21:12
jenkinsor anyone21:13
MuscovyI don't find that one too clear, wheras the others clearly say "screenshots".21:13
ChrisWoollardi talked to ben earlier today21:13
jenkinswhich one said screenshots to you Muscovy?21:13
MuscovyPretty much all the one with desktops of some sort.21:14
MuscovyI'll go back and pick the ones I liked best.21:14
jenkinsthanks that would be good21:15
MuscovyI like the top right one in http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e21:15
MuscovyOr the bottom right.21:16
ChrisWoollardgodbyk: I have talked to ben. He said he would do it tonight.21:16
godbykChrisWoollard: Okay, cool.21:17
jenkinsthanks Muscovy I am going to test in #ubuntu-uk to see what people think those icons imply the program does21:17
ChrisWoollardI don't know about Jason though21:18
ChrisWoollardgodbyk: Can you have a look at the outstanding bugs list to see if any are for you21:19
ChrisWoollardCan you also look at the confirmed list. I think that might have been overlooked. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=Confirmed21:20
godbykI went through the list of bugs targeted to e2 that weren't already fixed/committed/etc. and fixed a few yesterday.21:20
godbykI think the remaining ones may need a closer look.21:20
godbykThe ones I see left are bugs 562439, 582361, 609085, 561883, and 584772.21:21
manualbotLaunchpad bug 562439 in ubuntu-manual "doubling informations" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56243921:21
manualbotLaunchpad bug 582361 in ubuntu-manual "apt-get doesn't mention dist-upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58236121:21
manualbotLaunchpad bug 609085 in ubuntu-manual "Inappropriate NetworkManager screenshot" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60908521:21
manualbotLaunchpad bug 561883 in ubuntu-manual "missing tags" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56188321:21
godbykThanks, manualbot! :)21:21
ChrisWoollardI will start to look at them in a while. I will change the status to in progress as I do them. So if anybody else wants to help. Feel free.21:24
godbyk'kay, thanks, ChrisWoollard!21:30
godbykI'm fixing 'lunch' right now, and then I have to mow the yard. But when I've finished with that, I'll be back to work on the manual.21:30
ChrisWoollardlovely21:30
ChrisWoollardthx21:30
jenkinsI always think yards are concrete :D21:31
godbykjenkins: I always think gardens contain flowers or vegetables.  :D21:36
jenkinslol, i think of grass, flowers and vegetables in a garden21:37
dakergodbyk-android, ping21:45
sonicbadgerHe might be mowing the lawn21:45
jenkinsno hes mowing the yard :P21:47
godbykdaker: pong21:47
godbykeating lunch still.21:47
godbykdaker: I got your email.21:48
dakergodbyk, oki21:48
sonicbadgergodbyk: RE: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/58590921:48
manualbotLaunchpad bug 585909 in ubuntu-manual "Indentation error "Copying part of a page", p.56" [Undecided,Confirmed]21:48
sonicbadgerIs that just missing a \noindent tag?21:49
godbyksonicbadger: If it's the continuation of a the same paragraph, then you can use \noindent at the beginning of the line to suppress indentation.21:49
sonicbadgerI am ChrisWoollard by the way. I am on another computer21:49
godbykIf it's the start of a new paragraph, though, it should be indented.21:50
sonicbadgerOk. I haven't read it yet so I don't know21:50
jenkinscome on people we need to think of a quickshot icon http://imagebin.org/109830 was suggested by popey and thorwil and vish have suggested some. any ideas for one are very much appreciated21:51
MuscovyHere's one of mine that only a few people saw: http://www.flickr.com/photos/muscovyx/4886602265/21:52
MuscovyThe concept is to show and Ubuntu-ish desktop with a photo lens around it.21:53
MuscovyThe lens could do with work.21:54
OmegaThat's what I thought too21:55
OmegaThe lens21:55
jenkinsMuscovy: that might work,,,,,21:55
jenkinsI had not seen that21:55
OmegaMaybe a combination of yours and the other one21:55
Omegahttp://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e21:55
Omegalook at the last one21:56
jenkinsMuscovy: could I have the original of that please?21:56
OmegaBut with a lens around the 'bigger desktop'21:56
MuscovySure, what's a good site that'll allow svgs?21:56
jenkinsluke@ubuntu-manual.org is fine21:56
MuscovyAh right.21:56
Omegadid you guys hear about #ubuntu-tour :)21:56
jenkinsOmega: I like the idea of a lense around a desktop screen21:57
jenkinsnope21:57
jenkinsmay be i got the wrong end of the stick is that not similar to the manual but in a different writing style?21:58
MuscovyThe big feature was interactivity.21:59
MuscovyLike detecting when the software center is opened.21:59
MuscovyDrawing arrows to point to stuff, etc.21:59
jenkinsthnaks for the e-mail Muscovy21:59
MuscovyYou're welcome.21:59
jenkinswould the arrow be on the screenshot or is this an app?21:59
MuscovyAn ap.22:00
jenkinso right thats quite a cool idea, maybe it could be an accompaniment to the manual? I have no clue if that would work22:01
MuscovyWe were thinking refer to the manual as a more technical guide, and use the tour as a sort of scratch-the-surface process.22:01
jenkinsnice sounds good22:01
MuscovyIf the manual had a web edition, for instance, we could even do a "learn more" link for each topic covered.22:02
MuscovyOr maybe the document viewer can open certain pages, I dunno.22:02
jenkinsthat would work, i have added it to my saved channels, I don't think I have the skills or time to help unfortunalty22:03
MuscovyMost of the work is in the Etherpad document.22:03
MuscovyBasically we've just done concept stuff.22:04
jenkinshow on earth do you draw an arrow across someone's desktop? I mean there is all the the different display resolutions22:06
MuscovyI was thinking just for panel stuff.22:06
MuscovyWe could get the resolution settings and work from that.22:06
brandonjIt probably wouldn't be 'across the desktop', just render a red arrow right where they have to go22:06
MuscovyWait, did I actually say "across"?22:07
brandonjalso, there'd be a picture in the app itself, so they know what to look for that way22:07
jenkinso right I got the impression it would be very interactive with your desktop and fit in well a picture would make it easier22:09
MuscovyI think the interacting between the tour and the desktop would realistically be various apps saying "yep, this stage is done" for launching, setup, etc.22:11
brandonjin some cases I think there is an opportunity to get a bit more sophisticated than that22:12
jenkinsthe only issue I can see with a picture is that people might think it is the real program. it was an argument used on the docs list for not using screenshots. As a user i see no problem but it may happen with a very new user, i could see my dad trying to click the picture. he removed the wireless keyboard/mouse dongle and plugged in his pen drive. he then spend 30 mins moaning the pc did not work. >:o . When i look22:12
jenkinsI prefer http://www.flickr.com/photos/muscovyx/4886367385/in/photostream/ i think.22:13
MuscovyI imagine a screenshot would have a caption for that reason, if we include them.22:13
brandonjYes, the captions would be tailored to explain that22:13
jenkinsbrandonj: i think they way I am thinking is impossible but it would be good if it said "click the applications menu" and a flashing dot (or other shape0 was over the real menu22:14
MuscovyBen said that logo seemed too OS/version specific.22:14
brandonjjenkins: yes we were talking about that.  In some cases it might be possible, in other it might not be22:14
jenkinsMuscovy:  yea that is true but just change the panel colour and desktop background it would not make much difference22:15
OmegaYeah, and we could also look at how OMG's doing it22:15
brandonjOmega: they're using dbus to communicate w/ apps, which is what we should do I think22:16
jenkinsbrandonj: it would be great if it could work like that, i have no clue how howeveer22:16
MuscovyI don't think it'll be hard.22:16
OmegaThere is one problem however, school starts tomorrow.22:16
OmegaAnd I have a thesis to write.22:16
Muscovy:|22:17
OmegaI will still be around.22:17
OmegaBut it will hurt my productivity.22:17
MuscovyI'm lucky, I've got until September 7th or something.22:17
brandonjWe shouldn't rush it22:17
OmegaSo, I won't be able to do much.22:17
OmegaI can still help organizationally.22:17
brandonjI wouldn't target anything before 11.04 for a testing release22:17
OmegaI believe I'm fairly good at that.22:17
OmegaFor sure.22:18
OmegaThis isn't making 10.1022:18
brandonjwe all have school/work and stuff22:18
OmegaAlthough it would be cool, it's not viable.22:18
godbykRE: the ubuntu-tour stuff, you might look at this blueprint, too: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-meeting-ubuntu22:18
jenkinswell good luck with it, I am off to bed so night all22:18
godbykThere were a couple sessions at UDS-M that discussed first-use scenarios a bit.22:18
semioticroboticnight jenkins22:18
MuscovyGnight!22:18
godbykAnyway, I have to head out and mow the lawn/yard/garden/tall green stuff.22:19
semioticroboticI'm out, too.  I hope to check in around release time tomorrow.  :)  Take care, everyone.22:19
sonicbadgerWhen is release time tomoorow?22:19
godbyksonicbadger: Whenever I get to it. :-)22:19
sonicbadgerlol22:19
godbykProbably sometime in the evening my time (US/Central = GMT-0500).22:20
godbykback now.23:22
godbykmowing sucks.23:22
sonicbadgeri find it soothing23:22
sonicbadgerdo you have any idea about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/58450423:23
manualbotLaunchpad bug 584504 in ubuntu-manual "erroneous entry at start of Index ie first entry of "CD/DVD Creator, 27"" [Undecided,Confirmed]23:23
godbyknot me. but I think the combination of allergies and loathsome trees gets me most. :)23:23
sonicbadgerAllergies are not good :(23:23
brandonjsonicbadger: amen to that23:23
sonicbadgerI have it with a particular type of tree that you find everywhere in london.23:24
godbyksonicbadger: I think that page 27 may have been the wrong page number at one point, but I'm not really sure.23:24
godbykpage 27 is correct at this point in time, at least.23:24
godbykI'm not sure precisely what I'm allergic to, but mowing grass seems to incite that allergy.  Normally, I'll take an allergy pill beforehand, but I forgot this time.23:25
godbykI only managed to mow the front yard, too. The back yard is still too wet and the grass is too tall.  (We've had major flooding the past week.)23:26
MuscovyI think we'll need a #mowing soon.23:26
godbyksonicbadger: For \url, be sure to include the http:// protocol, as well. Otherwise they won't work.  (No clicky!)23:28
sonicbadgerI already noticed that23:29
sonicbadgeror are you refering to something i may have forgotton about23:30
godbykYour recent addition of the bugs.ubuntu-manual.org link.23:30
dutchie\o/23:33
dutchielocal lug appears to be re-animating itself23:33
sonicbadgerI already fixed that locally. I just forgot to commit it23:37
sonicbadgerThere we go.23:39
godbykNo worries. Just thought I'd give you a heads-up.23:40
godbykOh! I just struck me as to what the bug referred to: CD/DVD Creator isn't in alpha order in the index.23:40
godbykD'oh!23:40
sonicbadgerI noticed that then I checked it in the pdf it pointed to a weird local path on my pc23:41
sonicbadgerWhy?23:41
godbykI think it's being sorted as \acronym{CD}....23:41
godbykI'll fix it in a moment.23:41
sonicbadgerThat explains a lot23:42
godbykI think I'm also going to remove the "applications" and "command-line applications" entries+subentries from the index.  Opinions?23:43
sonicbadgertry it. We can always add it back if it doesn't work23:44
sonicbadgeror rather.... You :)23:44
godbyksonicbadger: Okay, done. Recompile and take a look at the index. Let me know what you think.23:51
sonicbadgerok23:51
sonicbadgerThe index is a lot shorter now23:54
godbykYeah.23:55
sonicbadgerI guess that removed a lot of duplication23:56
godbykI can't imagine people would look up 'applications' in the index to try to find something useful -- at least not a list of applications.23:56
sonicbadgerI think i like it better this way.23:57
godbykMe, too.23:58
sonicbadgerOk. That's fine then. That's +2 for, no objections. Case closed.23:58

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