[02:34] <Muscovy> Is the release day still Sunday?
[02:39] <nisshh> Muscovy: should be :)
[02:45] <godbyk> Muscovy: It'll be released on Monday, the 16th.
[05:36] <KE1HA> anyone from the manual team around ?
[05:50] <Muscovy> I suppose I'm manual team, so yes.
[05:55] <KE1HA> Hello, just a quick question, as far as writing a manual chapter goes, are we only allowed to use / write about applications that are part of the default installation?
[06:01] <Muscovy> I believe so.
[06:01] <Muscovy> At the present at least, there's no "other neat applications" section.
[06:01] <Muscovy> The closest is mentioning things like Wine and codecs.
[06:02] <brandonj> I would probably try to stay away from writing all new content now
[06:02] <Muscovy> Though a section akin to the software centre's Featured Applications might be a good idea for the 10.10 manual.
[06:04] <brandonj> Is e2 ready to go for monday?
[06:05] <Muscovy> I believe it is.
[06:05] <brandonj> wonderful!
[06:09] <KE1HA> Thanks all, Im looking for a backup applicaiton, and there several in the repos, but none are installed by default.
[06:10] <KE1HA> Which, I really dont understand why not.
[06:10] <april_g> hi everyone :)
[06:10] <april_g> i was wondering, do you have any plans of writing documentation for ubuntu netbook edition?
[06:11] <brandonj> I think a netbook edition was talked about, but right now we're focusing on getting lucid-edition2 and maverick out
[06:12] <brandonj> perhaps in the future?
[06:12] <KE1HA> that's what I was told as well, focus on v2 then 10.10
[06:12] <april_g> ok. i was actually interested in helping out with that.
[06:12] <april_g> is there anything that still needs doing for maverick?
[06:13] <KE1HA> Well, the Devs are doing allot of work on it still april_g its not do out until October.
[06:13] <brandonj> yes, maverick has lots to do
[06:13] <KE1HA> However, if you wnat to Join the Testing teams, you can get familiar with it at the early stages.
[06:13] <april_g> i meant in terms of the manual.  :) i'm not really sure about the process yet, but i'd really like to get into that
[06:14] <april_g> thanks KE1HA , i'll look into that :)
[06:15] <KE1HA> They have have to finish the release before we could really start writing, I guess there will be commonalties, but safer to wait I'd think.
[06:15] <brandonj> april_g: considering sending out an email to the ubuntu-manual mailing list, I'm not sure where we stand on Maverick stuff yet
[06:15] <april_g> thanks brandonj i'll do that as well :)
[06:17] <KE1HA> On thing that will definitely help you is reading the styles guide and playing around with the markup lang.  and getting familiar
[06:18] <KE1HA> Tex is all new to me, so been learning allot from the guide.
[06:21] <april_g> I'm new to Tex as well. Im still messing around with it :)
[06:21] <april_g> thanks for the info guys! i appreciate it :)
[06:22] <april_g> i hope you don't mind if i just hang out here on irc
[06:22] <april_g> :)
[06:27] <brandonj> the more the merrier
[06:27] <brandonj> unless you turn out to be a jerk
[06:27] <brandonj> =P
[06:28] <KE1HA> It's nice to see activity in here, sometimes its rather quiet. I saw your e-mail the other day about joining (alt least I think it was yours) , so welcome aboard.
[06:32] <april_g> brandonj i'm pretty nice, i think :) i haven't been told otherwise
[06:32] <april_g> lol
[06:32] <april_g> thanks KE1HA
[06:33] <Omega> Ubuntu should have some sort of tutorial at first boot.
[06:34] <Omega> A little walkthrough.
[06:34] <KE1HA> You were a tech-0writer for a tech-dev company right? I spent many year in tech as well.
[06:34] <KE1HA> Whoop tech-writer ..
[06:34] <Omega> Like, showing the user how to open the browser.
[06:34] <Omega> And playing a song.
[06:34] <Omega> Making a odt document.
[06:35] <april_g> KE1HA yes, for several years
[06:35] <Muscovy> You know, I wonder if we could see the manual become a part of the example content.
[06:35] <KE1HA> Yeah, like take the Ubuntu tour or something?
[06:35] <Omega> ,
[06:35] <april_g> Omega like a quick start guide?
[06:35] <Omega> Install a package.
[06:35] <Omega> Yes.
[06:35] <Omega> But, interactive.
[06:35] <Omega> It 'tracks' your progress.
[06:35] <KE1HA> I've tried to make those before, Im not too savvy at it, but they are neat.
[06:36] <brandonj> I think it needs one of those 'Welcome' videos like OS x

[06:36] <Omega> And tell the user about free replacements to some windows (or mac) apps that they are used to.
[06:36] <april_g> Omega having a tutorial like that would be cool, especially for those new to the system :)
[06:36] <Omega> It would help a lot.
[06:36] <brandonj> its a good idea Omega
[06:36] <april_g> it would make ubuntu far less intimidating
[06:36] <Omega> Maybe I should start a project like that.
[06:36] <brandonj> I would be interested in working on something like that
[06:36] <Omega> Cool.
[06:37] <Omega> We'll call it Ubuntu Tour or something like that.
[06:37] <Omega> I'm open to suggestions :)
[06:37] <brandonj> I was never very good at thinking up names
[06:37] <KE1HA> Well, woking the Ubuntu answers on Launchpad, and the ubuntu channel, there 10 to maby 15 topis that are beat to death by new users every day, simple things, I think that would certainly help with that problem.
[06:38] <Omega> And, it can let the user set up a launchpad account and submit his/her first bug :)
[06:38] <KE1HA> Like how do I see / get my files on my windows box?
[06:39] <Omega> And maybe explain what the "Home Folder" is, when they are only used to "My Documents"
[06:39] <KE1HA> How do I get my music to play from windows, and it goes on an on an on. Simple things.
[06:39] <Omega> Indeed.
[06:39] <Omega> It is those things that make the biggest impact on users.
[06:39] <Muscovy> Omega: I'd join that project. :D
[06:39] <brandonj> Omega: you should start this up
[06:40] <brandonj> I'm suprised nobody has done something like that before, actually
[06:40] <april_g> definitely Omega. i'd join this project
[06:40] <Omega> Well, what should we call it guys?
[06:40] <KE1HA> For idea, sit in the ubuntu channel fer about a weeks, and make a little matrix, on topics v.s. ho many time they are asked, that would eb a good starting point.
[06:41] <Omega> Mhm.
[06:41] <Omega> It would.
[06:41] <brandonj> tutelage!
[06:41] <Omega> Also, I'd like to look at how UM is organized
[06:41] <Muscovy> Ubuntu Tour sounds good, if ordinary.
[06:42] <KE1HA> I think another area that needs help is, showing people "where to get help", there so many resources, people get lost in where to go.
[06:42] <Omega> Indeed.
[06:43] <Omega> So, #ubuntu-tour is open
[06:43] <Omega> But, we can also hang out here
[06:43] <KE1HA> I think theres a Ubuntu-beginners channel already, may be worth while to explore what they done as well.
[06:46] <KE1HA> Omega, Organized, I would really like to see that structure also, but I guess that's the nature of open source, if can be very free-flowing.
[06:47] <Omega> Eh, I'm an anarchist, but organization is never bad :)
[06:47] <KE1HA> I hope you all don't have to proof anything I write, geezz, just looked at all those typos' LOL Not good !
[06:49] <KE1HA> I' not looking for the head of the ship or anything, just an overview would be nice.
[06:50] <KE1HA> Take for instance, documentation on its on, There's the Manual, there's wiki's, systems docs, How-To's personal wiki's the forums, there's allot of stuff.
[06:50] <april_g> exactly KE1HA. it gets rather overwhelming
[06:51] <KE1HA> Then, the different distros, their cross overs, uniqueness etc etc .. somewhere there needs to be the Pond where all the water comes from :-)
[06:51] <Muscovy> A wiki page or something would probably be the best start.
[06:52] <Muscovy> If people don't like the Ubuntu wiki, we could always throw a Mediawiki or something up.
[06:53] <brandonj> I think ubuntu manual will do for now
[06:53] <brandonj> err
[06:53] <brandonj> ubuntu wiki
[06:53] <KE1HA> I honestly dont know what the right answer is or could be. It's just a vast subject.
[06:54] <Muscovy> Hmm.
[06:54] <KE1HA> I think the Documentations Team is the top level, as it branches to Systems, and Applications. Maybe that's where the manual should branch from, not sure.
[06:55] <KE1HA> But it seems focused on Ubuntu alone, then there's the Distro's.
[06:55] <Omega> What programs/subjects should the tour cover?
[06:55] <Muscovy> The manual would take a lot of converting, If another distro used it, I imagine it would mostly be for the Tex.
[06:55] <brandonj> getting online
[06:56] <Muscovy> Firefox for sure.
[06:56] <brandonj> installing/updating packages
[06:56] <april_g> might be good to include something about the organization of the files on ubuntu
[06:56] <Muscovy> Software centre, a bit of Nautilus.
[06:56] <brandonj> and getting additional help
[06:56] <Omega> http://openetherpad.org/GUNcK2dx75
[06:56] <Omega> We can all add.
[06:56] <KE1HA> Basic How too's fer sure. Instll Unix, Solaris or FreeBSD on a VM,  then write down the questions you get trying to do things, that's what new users to Ubuntu are faced with.
[06:57] <brandonj> damn, why am I always pink?
[06:58] <KE1HA> I'd say, how yo just opened that pad would be a good one :-) Never new that could be done.
[07:01] <KE1HA> I can't get in the Pad thingy
[07:01] <KE1HA> april_g1, how did you get in there ?
[07:02] <april_g1> you're already on there KE1HA :) i see your name
[07:03] <KE1HA> Do you type  just in the main frame ?
[07:03] <Muscovy> Yes.
[07:03] <KE1HA> Ok, never use this before, its pretty neat.
[08:11] <KE1HA> Good brainstorm session all, look fer you tomorrow.
[08:11] <Omega> Indeed.
[08:16] <april_g> i just realized we haven't come up with a name yet. :) should we stick with ubuntu-tour?
[08:17] <Muscovy> I like it, but I'm not sure.
[08:17] <Muscovy> When in doubt, I'm going to look up synonyms.
[08:18] <april_g> ok :) coz i don't know what to use as the name for the LP team.
[08:18] <april_g> so.. i think i'll just wait for the others on that
[08:22] <Muscovy> Probably best, yeah.
[08:24] <Muscovy> Hmm, I guess ubuntu-tour.
[08:35] <KE1HA> +1 from me, it identifies well with the purpose.
[08:41] <april_g> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tour this should do for now
[08:41] <april_g> we can update the details: ownership, description (to include goals and other pertinent information) tomorrow
[08:41] <april_g> should we have the mailing list hosted on launchpad or do you guys prefer having it hosted somewhere else?
[08:42] <Muscovy> Launchpad is fine, IMO.
[08:45] <april_g> ok. i've also filed in a request for the mailing list on LP
[08:46] <Muscovy> I'll play around with a few logo ideas before I go to bed.
[08:47] <Muscovy> Oh, mailing list is up already it seems.
[08:49] <april_g> great!
[10:06] <KE1HA> Man you all are flying though this :-)
[10:06] <KE1HA> april_g, How did you create the LP ?
[10:09] <april_g> KE1HA: i justwent to launchpad.net and there was an option to create a team :)
[10:10] <april_g> i'll leave the creation of the project Omega :)
[10:10] <KE1HA> Easy Peezy :-)
[10:10] <KE1HA> I've not created one before, so was curious.
[10:12] <april_g> KE1HA i thought you guys went to sleep already :)
[10:14] <KE1HA> No, Im working on a Desktop-App-Testing matrix, looking at the cross-overs from UB / XUB/ EDUB
[10:17] <nisshh> KE1HA: sounds interesting, care to tell me more?
[10:17] <nisshh> april_g: its only 5:17PM where i am
[10:17] <nisshh> :)
[10:17] <april_g> nisshh we're about the same :)
[10:18] <nisshh> april_g: ah ok
[10:18] <KE1HA> Yes sure it's the QA team, we test ISO's and Desktop applications on new Distrobuitons. Hold on, will get the linky
[10:18] <nisshh> KE1HA: ah, your on the QA team? cool :)
[10:18] <KE1HA> Yeah, its allot of fun.
[10:18] <KE1HA> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com'
[10:19] <KE1HA> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures
[10:19] <nisshh> nice
[10:19] <april_g> interesting :)
[10:20] <april_g> nisshh are you somewhere in asia?
[10:20] <nisshh> KE1HA: i thought about joining to QA team, but i decided manual + dev-manual + bugsquad + others is enough :)
[10:20] <KE1HA> We're adding more and more Apps to the Desktop Apps fer testing, and there's nothign yet on Xubuntu and EDubuntu, so im working on that.
[10:20] <nisshh> april_g: australia :)
[10:20] <nisshh> KE1HA: sounds awesome :)
[10:21] <april_g> KE1HA the QA thing looks really nice. :) altho i think i'll stick to the docs for now, seeing as I'm still new to all this
[10:21] <KE1HA> Yeah, I was on the Hall of Fame for about three days Wooo-Hoo :-).. had the most tested ISO's fer a week :-)
[10:22] <KE1HA> We also QA docs.
[10:22] <nisshh> nice
[10:23] <april_g> doc QA might be something i can help with :)
[10:23] <KE1HA> Yeah, I think its importand, the whoel End-User experience starts when they Install, and if it falls over, its a negative impact from then on aout.
[10:23] <KE1HA> Important.
[10:23] <nisshh> yea
[10:24] <nisshh> although most end-users despise docs
[10:24] <KE1HA> Yeah, definately, they only want a doc when somethign goes wrong.
[10:24] <april_g> nisshh ya. lol. they only consult docs when problems start piling up
[10:24] <nisshh> jenkins: i added you to the contributors for pytask for that apport stuff
[10:24] <KE1HA> The they want it, right now, and only the Fix, no fluff.
[10:24] <nisshh> yea
[10:24] <jenkins> thanks nisshh, I will give you a hand with the debian rules file I am getting there with quickshot's one
[10:25] <nisshh> jenkins: also, have you figured out that rules file stuff yet?
[10:25] <nisshh> ah cool
[10:25] <KE1HA> Oh hey, Quickshots also works on Xubuntu.
[10:25] <KE1HA> Installed that yesterday to test it.
[10:25] <jenkins> KE1HA: cool thanks, did you get quickshot form the ppa?
[10:26] <nisshh> KE1HA: nice, wouldnt surprise me if it did though, since Xubuntu uses A LOT of GNOME stuff from Ubuntu
[10:26] <nisshh> brb
[10:26] <jenkins> yep it does, i have yet to test it though, we are supporting kde and ldxe as well when i get around to it. eventually it would be nice to have a qt gui
[10:27] <nisshh> yea
[10:28] <KE1HA> jenkins, yes, just added the pps stuff, and installed, worked perfect.
[10:28] <jenkins> thats good to hear :)
[10:28] <KE1HA> Opps PPA, not PPS
[10:29] <KE1HA> I've asked to be the Docs Lead fer Xubuntu, so if that pans out, gonna be buggin you gus allot about settign up bzr :-)
[10:29] <KE1HA> That's why Im ding this Matrix also, I want to Identify all Standard Apps that happen at install, and ensure there's Docs covering all of them.
[10:30] <KE1HA> for UB / XUB and EDUB
[10:31] <KE1HA> I just finished a New UB VM install, zsync-ing EDUB now, so will have all 3 in VM's for Docs.
[10:31] <KE1HA> With no extra packages that is, as my UB install has a few extras, so it's no good fer docs and writing.
[10:33] <jenkins> KE1HA: that sounds cool but in the next release there will be no need for bzr to use quickshot. but he is welcome to have a chat with us he can also e-mail quickshotdevs@list.launchpad.net as there are only two active devs at the moment
[10:33] <KE1HA> 2 Devs for Quickshot ?
[10:34] <jenkins> devlopers working on quickshot
[10:34] <KE1HA> rr ok .. understan. Why did you all descide to make Quickshot, does the standard screenshot app not do what's needed ?
[10:35] <nisshh> KE1HA: it was first developed to be used to take the screenshots for the manual :)
[10:35] <nisshh> KE1HA: since we have to take alot of very specific ones
[10:35] <jenkins> well if you took a screenshot of you desktop now it would look different to mine. it means we can get the same screenshots in different langauges and upload them to the server for review.
[10:36] <jenkins> also at the same resolution with minimal work by the user
[10:36] <KE1HA> For consistent shots all the time, makes sense.
[10:36] <jenkins> and generally the error rate has been low.
[10:36] <KE1HA> They look nice, works well
[10:37] <KE1HA> So is Quickshot going to replace screenshot ?
[10:37] <jenkins> thanks, well we are rewriting it at the moment as that release was rather a rush.
[10:37] <jenkins> do you mean replace the default screenshot program?
[10:37] <KE1HA> yes
[10:38] <jenkins> no it will not, quickshot is for projects to specify screenshots to be taken
[10:38] <jenkins> for their docs/webpages
[10:39] <KE1HA> Cool, hopefully it will be come the standard for all Web-Pages and Manuals
[10:40] <jenkins> and docs :) thats the long term goal and across every distor
[10:40] <KE1HA> I got a quesiton about Wiki ... you know whaen you seach for an App / version of an app / package, the 9.04 / 9.10 / 9.10 / 10.04 TAB appear at the top, how can we add those ot out personal wiki's ?
[10:42] <KE1HA> Or I guess you could say, those TABS at the top of personal Wiki (Planet, Partners, Support etc) can we change them to somethign else ?
[10:42] <jenkins> can you show an example page i don't look at the wiki very much
[10:44] <KE1HA> http://imagebin.org/109740
[10:45] <KE1HA> See the TABS there toward the TOP right, Ubuntu, Community, Support, Partners etc etc those tabs
[10:46] <jenkins> I am not sure that is possible you could add a menu bar like the manual wiki does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
[10:47] <KE1HA> Ok, just wondering, may be part of the main page that we can't edit. Would be nice though.
[10:48] <jenkins> yea I think it is part of the main page, their may be a way but i don't know of onw
[10:48] <jenkins> one
[10:49] <KE1HA> r
[10:49] <KE1HA> I like that Image Pastebin, that's things neat too.
[10:50] <jenkins> yep very usefull
[10:50] <KE1HA> So was that community notepad, that's great fer meetings.
[10:51] <jenkins> etherpad?
[10:51] <KE1HA> Im not sure what it was called hold on, i BM'ed it.
[10:51] <KE1HA> Yes, that's it.
[10:59] <jenkins> be back later today
[10:59] <jenkins> cya
[11:01] <KE1HA> TTUL
[11:23] <thorwil> vish, flan_: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e
[11:24] <vish> thorwil: ooh! i like the first row second one..! :)  what size is that?
[11:25] <thorwil> vish: 48
[11:26] <vish> nice..
[11:27] <vish> thorwil: lol , you fell into the trap of using a camera ;p
[11:27] <thorwil> ty. though, this stacking always seem to bring some unrest with it
[11:27] <vish> thorwil: snap!
[11:28] <vish> thorwil: exactly , we know about the app , so it makes sense , but for someone not familiar with it might take it to be a background chooser..
[11:28] <thorwil> vish: no, i just show the obvious and cheap after failing seeing once again that trying to be more sophisticated leads to a mess ;)
[11:29]  * thorwil fails at sentence construction
[11:29] <vish> :)
[18:48] <daker> godbyk, ping
[20:25] <c7p> hi jenkins
[20:25] <jenkins> hey c7p
[20:33] <jenkins> I don't suppose anyone here is registered as an android developer with google?
[20:39] <jenkins> *registered with google
[20:43] <c7p> so the e2 will be released tomorrow ?
[20:44] <thorwil> jenkins: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e
[20:47] <jenkins> thorwil: cool some more ideas I like the last one on the bottom for the website. would you be able to do a stack of screenshots like in the original idea so that the corner is nearest the viewer? and put a camera on on top if that makes sense?
[20:47] <jenkins> c7p: in theory i don't know how it is going
[20:47] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: ^ ?
[20:48] <thorwil> jenkins: i'm not quite following
[20:49] <jenkins> no problem i will do a sktech
[20:49] <thorwil> jenkins: please think "icon" and rip the word "add" out of your language for this here ;)
[20:55] <ChrisWoollard> hello
[20:56] <semioticrobotic> hi ChrisWoollard
[20:56] <semioticrobotic> Are we all set for a release tomorrow
[20:56] <semioticrobotic> ?
[20:56] <ChrisWoollard> We are probably almost there
[20:56] <jenkins> thorwil: I am :) I am probably the worst person to try and do this for, thanks for persevering, http://imagebin.org/109811 see the corner circled. rotate that so it is facing the viewer so at 45 degrees to its current position and put a camera on top like the one you used in http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e
[20:56] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: great!
[20:56] <ChrisWoollard> I am awaiting a screenshot from humphreybc
[20:57] <semioticrobotic> very good
[20:58] <ChrisWoollard> I also think i could proof read a couple more chapters too. but nothing major
[20:59] <jenkins> are there any un fixed bugs ?
[21:00] <semioticrobotic> yeah, how's the bug situation?
[21:00] <ChrisWoollard> let me have a look
[21:00] <jenkins> 4 left by the looks of it
[21:00] <ChrisWoollard> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/613266
[21:00] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 613266 in ubuntu-manual "Mixed use of "applications" and "programs"" [Undecided,New]
[21:00] <ChrisWoollard> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/609085
[21:01] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 609085 in ubuntu-manual "Inappropriate NetworkManager screenshot" [Medium,New]
[21:01] <jenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/582361
[21:01] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 582361 in ubuntu-manual "apt-get doesn't mention dist-upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed]
[21:01] <thorwil> jenkins: i don't get how you want that rotation. but i'll log out soon. maybe i'll try a stack like that another day
[21:01] <ChrisWoollard> there is also https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/561883
[21:01] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 561883 in ubuntu-manual "missing tags" [Low,In progress]
[21:01] <jenkins> ok thanks thorwil
[21:02] <jenkins> I will try and draw one my self I should learn inkscape
[21:02] <jenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/562439
[21:02] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 562439 in ubuntu-manual "doubling informations" [Medium,Confirmed]
[21:03] <jenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/584772
[21:03] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 584772 in ubuntu-manual "File system structure needs descriptions" [Undecided,In progress]
[21:03] <jenkins> thats all i can see
[21:04] <ChrisWoollard> also it appears there are a bunch that are confirmed
[21:04] <ChrisWoollard> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=Confirmed
[21:06] <ChrisWoollard> bug 584772 is the one that ben is workin on. He promised he would do it tonight
[21:06] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 584772 in ubuntu-manual "File system structure needs descriptions" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584772
[21:08] <semioticrobotic> the bug regarding apt-get might be a non-issue once most of the command line stuff has been removed
[21:08] <ChrisWoollard> I will have a look at some of the bugs in an hour
[21:09] <ChrisWoollard> that is for maverick though, not e2
[21:10] <godbyk> I'll be running things through spell-check and trying to add some more index entries later today, too.
[21:10] <godbyk> We should see if we can get those final bugs fixed, however.
[21:10] <godbyk> Have you pestered Ben and Jason recently about the bugs they've committed to?
[21:11] <semioticrobotic> ah, okay
[21:12] <jenkins> http://imagebin.org/109820 another quickshot icon idea any thoughts vish?
[21:13] <jenkins> or anyone
[21:13] <Muscovy> I don't find that one too clear, wheras the others clearly say "screenshots".
[21:13] <ChrisWoollard> i talked to ben earlier today
[21:13] <jenkins> which one said screenshots to you Muscovy?
[21:14] <Muscovy> Pretty much all the one with desktops of some sort.
[21:14] <Muscovy> I'll go back and pick the ones I liked best.
[21:15] <jenkins> thanks that would be good
[21:15] <Muscovy> I like the top right one in http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e
[21:16] <Muscovy> Or the bottom right.
[21:16] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: I have talked to ben. He said he would do it tonight.
[21:17] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Okay, cool.
[21:17] <jenkins> thanks Muscovy I am going to test in #ubuntu-uk to see what people think those icons imply the program does
[21:18] <ChrisWoollard> I don't know about Jason though
[21:19] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: Can you have a look at the outstanding bugs list to see if any are for you
[21:20] <ChrisWoollard> Can you also look at the confirmed list. I think that might have been overlooked. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=Confirmed
[21:20] <godbyk> I went through the list of bugs targeted to e2 that weren't already fixed/committed/etc. and fixed a few yesterday.
[21:20] <godbyk> I think the remaining ones may need a closer look.
[21:21] <godbyk> The ones I see left are bugs 562439, 582361, 609085, 561883, and 584772.
[21:21] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 562439 in ubuntu-manual "doubling informations" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562439
[21:21] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 582361 in ubuntu-manual "apt-get doesn't mention dist-upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582361
[21:21] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 609085 in ubuntu-manual "Inappropriate NetworkManager screenshot" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609085
[21:21] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 561883 in ubuntu-manual "missing tags" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561883
[21:21] <godbyk> Thanks, manualbot! :)
[21:24] <ChrisWoollard> I will start to look at them in a while. I will change the status to in progress as I do them. So if anybody else wants to help. Feel free.
[21:30] <godbyk> 'kay, thanks, ChrisWoollard!
[21:30] <godbyk> I'm fixing 'lunch' right now, and then I have to mow the yard. But when I've finished with that, I'll be back to work on the manual.
[21:30] <ChrisWoollard> lovely
[21:30] <ChrisWoollard> thx
[21:31] <jenkins> I always think yards are concrete :D
[21:36] <godbyk> jenkins: I always think gardens contain flowers or vegetables.  :D
[21:37] <jenkins> lol, i think of grass, flowers and vegetables in a garden
[21:45] <daker> godbyk-android, ping
[21:45] <sonicbadger> He might be mowing the lawn
[21:47] <jenkins> no hes mowing the yard :P
[21:47] <godbyk> daker: pong
[21:47] <godbyk> eating lunch still.
[21:48] <godbyk> daker: I got your email.
[21:48] <daker> godbyk, oki
[21:48] <sonicbadger> godbyk: RE: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/585909
[21:48] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 585909 in ubuntu-manual "Indentation error "Copying part of a page", p.56" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:49] <sonicbadger> Is that just missing a \noindent tag?
[21:49] <godbyk> sonicbadger: If it's the continuation of a the same paragraph, then you can use \noindent at the beginning of the line to suppress indentation.
[21:49] <sonicbadger> I am ChrisWoollard by the way. I am on another computer
[21:50] <godbyk> If it's the start of a new paragraph, though, it should be indented.
[21:50] <sonicbadger> Ok. I haven't read it yet so I don't know
[21:51] <jenkins> come on people we need to think of a quickshot icon http://imagebin.org/109830 was suggested by popey and thorwil and vish have suggested some. any ideas for one are very much appreciated
[21:52] <Muscovy> Here's one of mine that only a few people saw: http://www.flickr.com/photos/muscovyx/4886602265/
[21:53] <Muscovy> The concept is to show and Ubuntu-ish desktop with a photo lens around it.
[21:54] <Muscovy> The lens could do with work.
[21:55] <Omega> That's what I thought too
[21:55] <Omega> The lens
[21:55] <jenkins> Muscovy: that might work,,,,,
[21:55] <jenkins> I had not seen that
[21:55] <Omega> Maybe a combination of yours and the other one
[21:55] <Omega> http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e
[21:56] <Omega> look at the last one
[21:56] <jenkins> Muscovy: could I have the original of that please?
[21:56] <Omega> But with a lens around the 'bigger desktop'
[21:56] <Muscovy> Sure, what's a good site that'll allow svgs?
[21:56] <jenkins> luke@ubuntu-manual.org is fine
[21:56] <Muscovy> Ah right.
[21:56] <Omega> did you guys hear about #ubuntu-tour :)
[21:57] <jenkins> Omega: I like the idea of a lense around a desktop screen
[21:57] <jenkins> nope
[21:58] <jenkins> may be i got the wrong end of the stick is that not similar to the manual but in a different writing style?
[21:59] <Muscovy> The big feature was interactivity.
[21:59] <Muscovy> Like detecting when the software center is opened.
[21:59] <Muscovy> Drawing arrows to point to stuff, etc.
[21:59] <jenkins> thnaks for the e-mail Muscovy
[21:59] <Muscovy> You're welcome.
[21:59] <jenkins> would the arrow be on the screenshot or is this an app?
[22:00] <Muscovy> An ap.
[22:01] <jenkins> o right thats quite a cool idea, maybe it could be an accompaniment to the manual? I have no clue if that would work
[22:01] <Muscovy> We were thinking refer to the manual as a more technical guide, and use the tour as a sort of scratch-the-surface process.
[22:01] <jenkins> nice sounds good
[22:02] <Muscovy> If the manual had a web edition, for instance, we could even do a "learn more" link for each topic covered.
[22:02] <Muscovy> Or maybe the document viewer can open certain pages, I dunno.
[22:03] <jenkins> that would work, i have added it to my saved channels, I don't think I have the skills or time to help unfortunalty
[22:03] <Muscovy> Most of the work is in the Etherpad document.
[22:04] <Muscovy> Basically we've just done concept stuff.
[22:06] <jenkins> how on earth do you draw an arrow across someone's desktop? I mean there is all the the different display resolutions
[22:06] <Muscovy> I was thinking just for panel stuff.
[22:06] <Muscovy> We could get the resolution settings and work from that.
[22:06] <brandonj> It probably wouldn't be 'across the desktop', just render a red arrow right where they have to go
[22:07] <Muscovy> Wait, did I actually say "across"?
[22:07] <brandonj> also, there'd be a picture in the app itself, so they know what to look for that way
[22:09] <jenkins> o right I got the impression it would be very interactive with your desktop and fit in well a picture would make it easier
[22:11] <Muscovy> I think the interacting between the tour and the desktop would realistically be various apps saying "yep, this stage is done" for launching, setup, etc.
[22:12] <brandonj> in some cases I think there is an opportunity to get a bit more sophisticated than that
[22:12] <jenkins> the only issue I can see with a picture is that people might think it is the real program. it was an argument used on the docs list for not using screenshots. As a user i see no problem but it may happen with a very new user, i could see my dad trying to click the picture. he removed the wireless keyboard/mouse dongle and plugged in his pen drive. he then spend 30 mins moaning the pc did not work. >:o . When i look
[22:13] <jenkins> I prefer http://www.flickr.com/photos/muscovyx/4886367385/in/photostream/ i think.
[22:13] <Muscovy> I imagine a screenshot would have a caption for that reason, if we include them.
[22:13] <brandonj> Yes, the captions would be tailored to explain that
[22:14] <jenkins> brandonj: i think they way I am thinking is impossible but it would be good if it said "click the applications menu" and a flashing dot (or other shape0 was over the real menu
[22:14] <Muscovy> Ben said that logo seemed too OS/version specific.
[22:14] <brandonj> jenkins: yes we were talking about that.  In some cases it might be possible, in other it might not be
[22:15] <jenkins> Muscovy:  yea that is true but just change the panel colour and desktop background it would not make much difference
[22:15] <Omega> Yeah, and we could also look at how OMG's doing it
[22:16] <brandonj> Omega: they're using dbus to communicate w/ apps, which is what we should do I think
[22:16] <jenkins> brandonj: it would be great if it could work like that, i have no clue how howeveer
[22:16] <Muscovy> I don't think it'll be hard.
[22:16] <Omega> There is one problem however, school starts tomorrow.
[22:16] <Omega> And I have a thesis to write.
[22:17] <Muscovy> :|
[22:17] <Omega> I will still be around.
[22:17] <Omega> But it will hurt my productivity.
[22:17] <Muscovy> I'm lucky, I've got until September 7th or something.
[22:17] <brandonj> We shouldn't rush it
[22:17] <Omega> So, I won't be able to do much.
[22:17] <Omega> I can still help organizationally.
[22:17] <brandonj> I wouldn't target anything before 11.04 for a testing release
[22:17] <Omega> I believe I'm fairly good at that.
[22:18] <Omega> For sure.
[22:18] <Omega> This isn't making 10.10
[22:18] <brandonj> we all have school/work and stuff
[22:18] <Omega> Although it would be cool, it's not viable.
[22:18] <godbyk> RE: the ubuntu-tour stuff, you might look at this blueprint, too: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-meeting-ubuntu
[22:18] <jenkins> well good luck with it, I am off to bed so night all
[22:18] <godbyk> There were a couple sessions at UDS-M that discussed first-use scenarios a bit.
[22:18] <semioticrobotic> night jenkins
[22:18] <Muscovy> Gnight!
[22:19] <godbyk> Anyway, I have to head out and mow the lawn/yard/garden/tall green stuff.
[22:19] <semioticrobotic> I'm out, too.  I hope to check in around release time tomorrow.  :)  Take care, everyone.
[22:19] <sonicbadger> When is release time tomoorow?
[22:19] <godbyk> sonicbadger: Whenever I get to it. :-)
[22:19] <sonicbadger> lol
[22:20] <godbyk> Probably sometime in the evening my time (US/Central = GMT-0500).
[23:22] <godbyk> back now.
[23:22] <godbyk> mowing sucks.
[23:22] <sonicbadger> i find it soothing
[23:23] <sonicbadger> do you have any idea about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/584504
[23:23] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 584504 in ubuntu-manual "erroneous entry at start of Index ie first entry of "CD/DVD Creator, 27"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[23:23] <godbyk> not me. but I think the combination of allergies and loathsome trees gets me most. :)
[23:23] <sonicbadger> Allergies are not good :(
[23:23] <brandonj> sonicbadger: amen to that
[23:24] <sonicbadger> I have it with a particular type of tree that you find everywhere in london.
[23:24] <godbyk> sonicbadger: I think that page 27 may have been the wrong page number at one point, but I'm not really sure.
[23:24] <godbyk> page 27 is correct at this point in time, at least.
[23:25] <godbyk> I'm not sure precisely what I'm allergic to, but mowing grass seems to incite that allergy.  Normally, I'll take an allergy pill beforehand, but I forgot this time.
[23:26] <godbyk> I only managed to mow the front yard, too. The back yard is still too wet and the grass is too tall.  (We've had major flooding the past week.)
[23:26] <Muscovy> I think we'll need a #mowing soon.
[23:28] <godbyk> sonicbadger: For \url, be sure to include the http:// protocol, as well. Otherwise they won't work.  (No clicky!)
[23:29] <sonicbadger> I already noticed that
[23:30] <sonicbadger> or are you refering to something i may have forgotton about
[23:30] <godbyk> Your recent addition of the bugs.ubuntu-manual.org link.
[23:33] <dutchie> \o/
[23:33] <dutchie> local lug appears to be re-animating itself
[23:37] <sonicbadger> I already fixed that locally. I just forgot to commit it
[23:39] <sonicbadger> There we go.
[23:40] <godbyk> No worries. Just thought I'd give you a heads-up.
[23:40] <godbyk> Oh! I just struck me as to what the bug referred to: CD/DVD Creator isn't in alpha order in the index.
[23:40] <godbyk> D'oh!
[23:41] <sonicbadger> I noticed that then I checked it in the pdf it pointed to a weird local path on my pc
[23:41] <sonicbadger> Why?
[23:41] <godbyk> I think it's being sorted as \acronym{CD}....
[23:41] <godbyk> I'll fix it in a moment.
[23:42] <sonicbadger> That explains a lot
[23:43] <godbyk> I think I'm also going to remove the "applications" and "command-line applications" entries+subentries from the index.  Opinions?
[23:44] <sonicbadger> try it. We can always add it back if it doesn't work
[23:44] <sonicbadger> or rather.... You :)
[23:51] <godbyk> sonicbadger: Okay, done. Recompile and take a look at the index. Let me know what you think.
[23:51] <sonicbadger> ok
[23:54] <sonicbadger> The index is a lot shorter now
[23:55] <godbyk> Yeah.
[23:56] <sonicbadger> I guess that removed a lot of duplication
[23:56] <godbyk> I can't imagine people would look up 'applications' in the index to try to find something useful -- at least not a list of applications.
[23:57] <sonicbadger> I think i like it better this way.
[23:58] <godbyk> Me, too.
[23:58] <sonicbadger> Ok. That's fine then. That's +2 for, no objections. Case closed.