[00:03] <sonicbadger> I am going to call it a night now. I have to go to bed now. Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day. My boss is back from holiday and that means he has spent way to much time thinking about things that he wants to change. So he will spend the first few hours of tomorrow having a strop at everybody.
[00:05] <godbyk> Fun!
[00:05] <godbyk> Thanks for your help, sonicbadger.
[00:05] <sonicbadger> np
[00:05] <sonicbadger> I do have some fun planned for tomorrow at work.
[00:06] <sonicbadger> Another guy is also back from holiday. I have rigged a device that will flick tiny bits of paper at him when he gets in and moves his mouse. :)
[00:07] <godbyk> lol
[00:07] <godbyk> awesome.
[00:08] <sonicbadger> Hopefully I can get it on video
[00:08] <godbyk> I'll be working on the manual this evening. Then I have to spend a bit of time on some C++ code for work.
[00:08] <godbyk> You'll have to share it if you do. :)
[00:08] <sonicbadger> Np
[00:52] <nisshh> humphreybc: hey, hows the company thing coming along?
[00:52] <humphreybc> lol
[00:52] <humphreybc> not bad
[00:52] <nisshh> what?
[00:52] <nisshh> did i say something?
[00:53] <godbyk> Hey. humphreybc.. don't forget to fix that Ubuntu manual bug that's assigned to you before tomorrow. :)
[00:53] <humphreybc> no?
[00:53] <humphreybc> godbyk, yeah, that's what I was going to come in here for
[00:53] <godbyk> cool
[00:53] <nisshh> humphreybc: why did you laugh? :)
[00:55] <humphreybc> "the company thing"
[00:55] <humphreybc> made me chuckle
[00:55] <nisshh> oh lol
[00:55] <nisshh> humphreybc: should i have said "the super duper awesome never before seen company"?
[00:56] <humphreybc> haha no "the company thing" sums it up nicely
[00:57] <humphreybc> godbyk: give me a list of the folders from / down that people should know about
[00:57] <nisshh> hehe
[00:58] <godbyk> humphreybc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
[00:59] <godbyk> humphreybc: Though this page appears a bit more concise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_directory_structure
[01:00] <godbyk> I'd say the ones that end users care about most are probably:
[01:01] <godbyk> oh, and /media since that's where their usb keys and whatnot get mounted nowadays.
[01:01] <godbyk>  /home, /etc /var/log and /usr/bin and /usr/lib
[01:01] <godbyk> (forgot the space, so irc hated me. oops)
[01:03] <humphreybc> ok
[01:05] <humphreybc> how big does this diagram have to be?
[01:06] <godbyk> no clue
[01:06] <humphreybc> lol
[01:07] <humphreybc> so is /var and /log separate?
[01:07] <humphreybc> are end users really going to care about these?
[01:07] <godbyk> log is a subdir of /var
[01:07] <brandonj> humphreybc: there is no /log
[01:07] <godbyk> and end users would only care if they need to find the log files for reporting errors, etc.
[01:11] <humphreybc> ok
[01:14] <Omega> Yo humphreybc.
[01:14] <Omega> Did you hear about Ubuntu Tour?
[01:15] <humphreybc> ?
[01:15] <Omega>  http://openetherpad.org/GUNcK2dx75 https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tour
[01:15] <Omega> It
[01:16] <Omega> It's a project we started yesterday (today)
[01:23] <humphreybc> what do we think about this? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/filesystem.png
[01:25] <Muscovy> That's a good chart.
[01:25] <Muscovy> I like how it emphasize the home dir.
[01:25] <godbyk> humphreybc: not too bad.  Music, Photos, and Videos should be capitalized, though, right?
[01:25]  * humphreybc sighs :P
[01:25] <Muscovy> I'd maybe include /bin and /media.
[01:25] <godbyk> Also, the letterspacing on the type is too tight.
[01:25] <humphreybc> yeah
[01:25] <humphreybc> I need to fix the kerning
[01:26] <godbyk> Muscovy: only system binaries are in /bin.
[01:26] <godbyk> humphreybc: Is it a vector graphic?
[01:26] <godbyk> humphreybc: Oh, and you should probably have a root / node at the top.
[01:26] <brandonj> +1 to root node and /media
[01:27] <humphreybc> okay, two secs
[01:29] <godbyk> humphreybc: The width of the text block (including margin note area) is 480 pt.
[01:29] <humphreybc> oh
[01:29] <humphreybc> my thing is twice that
[01:30] <humphreybc> nvm, i'll work something out
[01:30] <godbyk> So whatever you give me will be scaled to fit that width.
[01:30] <godbyk> it's okay if it's bigger, it'll get scaled automatically.
[01:30] <godbyk> I just wanted to let you know so you'd have an idea of what scale it'd be at.
[01:30] <godbyk> (the width is slightly different for A4 paper anyway)
[01:31] <godbyk> speaking of, will we have to have new graphics for each translation?  (Is Music, Photos, etc. translated?)
[01:31] <humphreybc> yeah...
[01:31] <humphreybc> unfortunately
[01:32] <brandonj> thats a pain
[01:35] <humphreybc> refresh that link
[01:36] <humphreybc> good?
[01:36] <humphreybc> now I just need to scale it
[01:37] <brandonj> i like it
[01:37] <godbyk> for the subdirs of /usr and /var, you list the /usr and /var parent dirs. but you don't do that for the other subdirs.
[01:38] <Omega> I was just about to mention that.
[01:38] <humphreybc> refresh
[01:39] <humphreybc> it doesn't look very good scaled down to < 480 pts wide
[01:41] <Omega> For the subdirs of /, you list the / parent folders for all but home.
[01:41] <Omega> folder*
[01:42] <humphreybc> fixed
[01:42] <Omega> I think under user, a better fit would be Documents, Downloads, Music.
[01:42] <Omega> For the variety
[01:42] <godbyk> I'm building the PDF with your image. We'll see how it looks.
[01:43] <Omega> So the user doesn't assume it's only for multimedia.
[01:43] <humphreybc> fair point
[01:45] <godbyk> uploading
[01:45] <godbyk> it'll be on page 121
[01:45] <humphreybc> righto
[01:45] <humphreybc> i think the fonts are going to take the hardest hit
[01:46] <godbyk> uploaded to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/main.pdf
[01:46] <godbyk> brb. gonna grab my other mouse. this one's batteries died.
[01:48] <humphreybc> actually it looks fine
[01:48] <godbyk> back
[01:48] <brandonj> yeah I dont think it looks bad
[01:48] <humphreybc> we'll need to change the text underneath to reflect the new diagram
[01:48] <Omega> Are there any plans for an online version of the guide?
[01:48] <godbyk> humphreybc: what app did you use to create this?
[01:48] <humphreybc> godbyk I give you one guess
[01:48] <godbyk> can we get a vector version? (say, svg or pdf?)
[01:49] <humphreybc> ugh I suppose I could re-do it in illustrator
[01:49] <humphreybc> is it really, really, really important?
[01:49] <godbyk> well, it looks all pixelated and blech.  and it may not print well.
[01:50] <humphreybc> I think it looks okay
[01:50] <humphreybc> I can resize it in photoshop first, might have better resizing
[01:50] <humphreybc> (especially for fonts)
[01:50] <godbyk> Are you thorwil? ;-)
[01:50] <humphreybc> I have shit to do today and a lab report due on thursday!
[01:51] <godbyk> Who waited 'til the last minute to create a new diagram?  <grin>
[01:51] <humphreybc> new and imporved smaller version: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1887929/filesystem.png
[01:51] <humphreybc> maybe I'll get around to making it better for Maverick
[01:52] <humphreybc> (read: in illustrator)
[01:52] <humphreybc> godbyk: why does our monospace font look so terrible?
[01:53] <godbyk> humphreybc: What's terrible about it?
[01:53] <humphreybc> everything
[01:54] <godbyk> rebuilding pdf with smaller version.
[01:54] <humphreybc> godbyk, do you think you have time to fix the text underneath the diagram?
[01:54] <godbyk> humphreybc: Ha. Well, you'll have to be more specific, I guess.  We're using DejaVu Sans Mono.
[01:54] <humphreybc> The spacing between verticals in 'm' and 'n' is horrible
[01:55] <humphreybc> in general, it's just horrible
[01:55] <humphreybc> surely we have some other monospace we can try ;)
[01:56] <godbyk> humphreybc: Find me one with good language support and I'll give it a shot.
[01:56] <humphreybc> bastard :P
[01:57] <godbyk> It's really hard to find good monospaced fonts.
[01:57] <humphreybc> that's disappointing :(
[01:59] <godbyk> uploading new pdf.
[02:00] <humphreybc> godbyk: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/pongo-records-screen-activity-audio.html
[02:01] <godbyk> upload finished. same url.
[02:01] <godbyk> humphreybc: cool. 'bout time. :)
[02:03] <humphreybc> stupid windows
[02:03] <humphreybc> every time i try to open the file, it says adobe reader can't view it in the browser and will now close
[02:03] <humphreybc> but i can't download the file
[02:04] <humphreybc> okay, just went back to /builds and downloaded it from there
[02:05] <humphreybc> godbyk is it just me, or does that look worse than before?
[02:06] <godbyk> I think it looks fuzzier than before, yeah.
[02:06] <humphreybc> use the larger one then
[02:06] <godbyk> you have to upload the big one again.
[02:06] <humphreybc> already done
[02:07] <godbyk> 'kay.
[02:07] <godbyk> rebuilding.
[02:09] <Omega> Maybe we should use the new Ubuntu font.
[02:10] <humphreybc> doesn't have a serif version
[02:11] <godbyk> Omega: When it's been released we quite possibly will use it for the headings.
[02:11] <godbyk> It doesn't work well for the margin notes, unfortunately.
[02:12] <Omega> Well, night guys.
[02:12] <Omega> School life begins!
[02:17] <humphreybc> these guys are so unruly: http://www.myspace.com/localnatives
[02:17] <humphreybc> scroll down to see crazy zombie heads
[02:20] <godbyk> See ya, Omega!
[02:21] <godbyk> humphreybc: that pretty much reaffirms why I don't click on myspace pages. UGLY!
[02:21] <humphreybc> haha
[02:22] <humphreybc> great band though
[09:05] <trijntje> ping godbyk
[09:06] <godbyk> trijntje: pong
[09:07] <trijntje> hi, I saw you mailed hannie about some issues with the manual, but she forgot to forward that mail to the dutch team before she went on vacation. Can you tell me an update about the translation problems with LP?
[09:07] <trijntje> *give me an update
[09:08] <godbyk> trijntje: I'm not sure what specific problems you have in mind.
[09:09] <trijntje> godbyk, translations reverting back to suggestions
[09:09] <godbyk> trijntje: But at the moment, you should be focusing on translating the lucid-e1 branch.  (Though if you like you can switch to the lucid-e2 branch in a few days after we've released it.)
[09:09] <godbyk> Ah, right. Not much I can do about that, I'm afraid.
[09:09] <godbyk> I don't know why that happens.
[09:10] <trijntje> that also happens in e1, thats the problem
[09:11] <godbyk> I know.
[09:11] <godbyk> A few things I do know:
[09:11] <godbyk> 1. If the translation template file (.pot file) is updated, then it can screw up existing translations if Launchpad thinks the original English text has been changed.
[09:12] <godbyk> This shouldn't happen in e1 as it's under a writing freeze.  But since people have changed the translation settings a couple of times, Launchpad has reloaded the .pot file and this may have caused problems.
[09:12] <godbyk> 2. Launchpad will pull translations from e1 to e2 and vice versa if the strings match.
[09:13] <godbyk> So if you translate a paragraph in e2 and the same paragraph appears in e1, Launchpad will show the e2 translation as a suggestion in the e1 branch.
[09:13] <trijntje> thats a good thing
[09:14] <trijntje> so I should try to review some more, download the .po just in case and see if it reverts again?
[09:14] <godbyk> 3. There's a Launchpad bug with the translations where an empty string in the .po file (translation file) can cause existing translations to be marked as suggestions. The Launchpad developers know about it, but haven't had time to fix it yet.
[09:14] <dpm> That's message sharing. It will actually translate the message in e1
[09:14] <godbyk> trijntje: Sounds like a plan.
[09:14] <godbyk> trijntje: Do you translate using Launchpad? Or do you edit the .po file itself?
[09:15] <trijntje> godbyk, using launchpad, as we have many new team members that submit suggestions
[09:15] <godbyk> trijntje: Okay. I think most of our translators are using Launchpad.
[09:18] <trijntje> godbyk, ok, ill try it today or tomorrow and I will be back here if something goes wrong
[09:19] <godbyk> trijntje: Sure. Let me know if you run into problems.  If you do, we'll make a careful list of steps to repeat the bug so we can report it to the Launchpad developers.
[09:20] <trijntje> godbyk, will do, thanks for your time
[09:23] <godbyk> no problem
[09:27] <jcisio> hello
[09:28] <jcisio> we Vietnamese has arrived at 100% milestone, could someone pull the LP to bazaar and compile to check it?
[09:28] <jcisio> :)
[09:29] <jcisio> next step, we hope that there are a lot of users volunteering for the proofreading and release it soon
[18:51] <jenkins> thorwil: what do you think of http://www.flickr.com/photos/muscovyx/4886602265/ suggested by muscovy
[18:51] <jenkins> flan ping
[18:51] <jenkins> I think the lense needs some adjusting and the colours changed to less ubuntu ones but its a good idea
[18:52] <flan_> Hi.
[18:52] <flan_> I noticed that you cleared out the idle applicant list.
[18:53] <flan_> Internet isntallations's cheduled for Saturday.
[18:53] <thorwil> jenkins: there is no lense, unless you really _want_ to see one. no hint that it's about more than just a screenshot (and not much of a hint that it is about screenshots at all)
[18:54] <flan_> I like the way it looks, but I have no clue what it represents.
[18:54] <flan_> I'd gladly affix it to a car or get it put onto a shirt.
[18:55] <jenkins> well I had a chat in #ubuntu-uk and asked people to guess what the program was from the icons we had so far. The feed back was it took to long to guess and a picture of a desktop was suggested by popey as it was more screenshot like to him
[18:56] <jenkins> I did come up with http://imagebin.org/109820 and this one http://imagebin.org/109830 basied on pope-ys idea
[18:56] <flan_> What about a side-view of an old-style CRT and a camera pointing at it?
[18:57] <jenkins> I also did something else which i can't find
[18:57] <thorwil> ah, that's what you meant with 45 degrees rotation
[18:58] <jenkins> yep :)
[18:58] <thorwil> http://imagebin.org/109830 could be monitor-controls or appearance
[18:59] <jenkins> yea thats what i thought but i went with the idea as it was suggested
[18:59] <thorwil> worse than not making sense is looking like something else, as you can bet there will be such a just-a-monitor icon around
[19:00] <thorwil> flan_: got any feedback on http://www.foopics.com/showfull/97ddf1478522eee7212bca5f6963789e ?
[19:02] <flan_> The last one on the second row seems to imply "this does something with parts of your screen".
[19:02] <flan_> And it's visually pleasing.
[19:02] <jenkins> thorwil: it was 3-4 guesses before anyone got screenshots when I asked :( in #ubuntu-uk but muscovy said he liked the far rigth ones and those are my prefered from them
[19:05] <jenkins> I am not sure on the colours but I have no better suggestions.
[19:06] <flan_> I'm totally going to get a mousepad with jenkins' first-linked image on it.
[19:06] <thorwil> the colors are very much secondary
[19:07] <jenkins> yep i figured :)
[19:09] <jenkins> flan_: I am getting there with the debian rules file rewrite
[19:09] <flan_> I am waiting for an Internet.
[19:09] <flan_> :(
[19:10] <flan_> It's very hard to write code with a still-not-fully-familiar framework and no access to APIs or supporting documentation.
[19:10] <jenkins> :( i sent half the weekend pinging you untill i remembered :D
[19:10] <flan_> Yeah... irssi was pretty "YOU HAVE LOTS OF NEW MESSAGES!" when I go in today.
[19:11] <flan_> But I disabled logging, so I couldn't read them.
[19:11] <jenkins> no worries it,
[20:58] <thorwil> jenkins, flan_, vish: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/4a0a3d709163b46dd879aee55ddd5f1b
[20:59] <jenkins> thorwil: that does make more sense now. at 100% in a browser is that the right size for an icon?
[21:01] <jenkins> I think 69% looks about icon size to me
[21:02] <jenkins> I like it lots better than the original mock up :) and is the best so far
[21:02] <thorwil> jenkins: 48px
[21:04] <thorwil> jenkins: good. i'd like to know if we have a winner here, before i bother with other sizes, though :)
[21:04] <jenkins> yea i don't blame you :)
[21:05] <jenkins> I think it would be best to make each desktop a different colour / distro. but that is also immaterial until we decide, flan_ ....
[21:07] <thorwil> then the next guy will complain about it being to colorful ;)
[21:07] <thorwil> good night!
[21:51] <jenkins> night all
[21:51] <Muscovy> Gnight.
[22:17] <godbyk> Hey, daker.  How will creating an available_manuals2 array do anything?  I do see anywhere in the code that looks for such an array.
[22:17] <dutchie> is it out yet?
[22:18] <godbyk> Nope, not yet.
[22:18] <godbyk> I was just planning a head a bit.
[22:18] <godbyk> I'll release it in a few hours.
[22:19] <daker> available_manuals2 is downloads.php & ajax_manuals.php
[22:20] <daker> in*
[22:21] <godbyk> I don't see it there yet.  Should it be there already? Or will you upload those changes after I've released the manual?
[22:23] <Muscovy> I'm excited for e2. :D
[22:25]  * daker is confused
[22:26] <daker> godbyk, i'll do the changes oki ?
[22:26] <godbyk> daker: Okay. Thanks!
[23:31] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Think we're ready for the e2 release?
[23:33] <dutchie> you have half an hour to release it on time in en_GB
[23:33] <dutchie> :P
[23:40] <Omega> Are you really a dutchie?
[23:40] <Omega> Or is it all leugens?
[23:41] <dutchie> it's all a joke
[23:41] <dutchie> since my name is Josh Holland
[23:41] <daker> \o/
[23:44] <godbyk> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/screen.pdf and http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/print.pdf
[23:45] <godbyk> If anyone sees any bugs, this is your last chance to report 'em and fix 'em. :-)
[23:45] <Muscovy> Will do.
[23:45] <Muscovy> ETA a few hours still>
[23:45] <Muscovy> ?
[23:45] <godbyk> Muscovy: Whenever I get tired of sitting around and waiting.  :)
[23:50] <ChrisWoollard> found a bug
[23:50] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: do tell
[23:50] <ChrisWoollard> my instead of by
[23:51] <godbyk> where?
[23:52] <ChrisWoollard> fixed already :)
[23:52] <godbyk> okay