[01:12]  * devildante is bored
[01:17] <micahg> devildante: about 80k bugs need work :)
[01:17] <rickspencer3> devildante, then maybe you could look at this hideous cheese bug!
[01:17] <rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/oem-priority/+bug/610600
[01:17] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 610600 in cheese (Fedora) (and 5 other projects) "Serious video performance regression in cheese (2.28.1->2.30.1) (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [Unknown,Unknown]
[01:17] <rickspencer3> it's bumming out everyone who uses GNOME
[01:17] <devildante> problem is, my webcam doesn't work
[01:17] <devildante> :p
[01:17] <rickspencer3> dang it
[01:18] <devildante> and I'm too lazy to make it work :p
[01:19] <devildante> don't you have something to code/fix? (other than that)
[01:20] <devildante> (once again, I'm too lazy to search :p)
[01:20] <rickspencer3> for sure!
[01:20]  * rickspencer3 looks
[01:20] <rickspencer3> devildante, what kind of things do you like to work on?
[01:20] <TheMuso> someone who is involved with free software and is bored? That is an oximoron IMO.
[01:21] <devildante> TheMuso: :p
[01:21] <devildante> rickspencer3: desktop/python related
[01:21] <devildante> but I can do with C/C++ :)
[01:21] <devildante> but desktop is required, I can't stand kernel :p
[01:23] <rickspencer3> devildante, software-center interest you at all?
[01:23] <rickspencer3> http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/599046
[01:23] <rickspencer3> http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/594833
[01:23] <rickspencer3> http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/609000
[01:23] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 599046 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Side pane navigation are read "Page" (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 88)" [High,Triaged]
[01:24] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 594833 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Hidden packages reveal feature not working correctly in "Canonical Partners" view (affects: 1) (heat: 63)" [Low,Triaged]
[01:24] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 609000 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with SystemError in open() (affects: 1) (heat: 158)" [Low,Triaged]
[01:24] <devildante> oh software-center is buggy :p
[01:25] <rickspencer3> well, those are 3 triaged bugs, in Python code, on the desktop
[01:25] <rickspencer3> :)
[01:25] <rickspencer3> devildante, there's always bug triaging as well, that always helps
[01:25] <devildante> oh no, an orca bug, and orca freezes my desktop :p
[01:25] <devildante> rickspencer3: thank you :p
[01:26] <devildante> I meant ;)
[01:26] <rickspencer3> either way :)
[01:31] <rickspencer3> RAOF, your fix for my webcam widget worked just fine on my Dell mini too!
[01:31] <rickspencer3> thanks man
[01:49] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Awesome.
[01:50] <RAOF> Mmm.  Hurray for front verandahs, and winter sunshine.  And laptops.
[01:50] <rickspencer3> too much work today
[01:50]  * rickspencer3 hits the showers
[01:50] <rickspencer3> later all!
[02:13] <TheMuso> RAOF: Sounds nice. I have sometimes thought of sitting out on my balcony in the winter sun and working, but I wouldn't be as comfortable. Still, its worth giving a shot at one point before winter is truely over.
[02:17] <RAOF> Yeah.  I'm only doing it for a while.  Untill I get nice and warm!  :)
[03:29] <saras_> what meerkat iso hase btrfs
[03:29] <saras_> has btrfs
[03:31] <TheMuso> saras_: The alternate installer for both amd64 and i386 allows you to choose btrfs.
[03:35] <saras_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ i don't see it here
[03:36] <RAOF> saras_: That's because that's the livecd, not the alternate cd.
[05:10] <pitti> Good morning
[05:24] <TheMuso> Hey pitti.
[07:28] <RAOF> pitti: May I enquire of your udev and/or upstart knowledge?  bug #615549 is a race condition between DRM loading and X starting due to vesafb's /dev/fb0 being tagged as PRIMARY_DEVICE_FOR_DISPLAY and hence triggering gdm's start condition.
[07:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 615549 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "Dell Studio XPS 13 no video (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615549
[07:33] <RAOF> Actually, the simple solution would appear to be ensuring vesafb's /dev/fb0 doesn't get tagged as primary.
[07:43] <RAOF> Because gdm will then just start after udevtrigger has finished.
[07:44] <RAOF> In fact… why are we tagging the framebuffers *at all*?
[07:52] <pitti> hello RAOF
[07:53] <pitti> RAOF: I'm not entirely sure, but I think it might be for plymouth?
[07:53] <RAOF> pitti: Hi.  I think I may have talked myself into the belief that just dropping the PRIMARY_DEVICE_FOR_DISPLAY udev logic for /dev/fb? will make that bug go away and won't have any unwanted side-effects.
[07:53] <pitti> RAOF: this is really a question for Scott, I'm afraid
[07:54] <pitti> ./plymouth-splash.conf:          and (graphics-device-added PRIMARY_DEVICE_FOR_DISPLAY=1
[07:54] <RAOF> Oh, boo.
[07:54] <RAOF> Curse plymouth and it's continued foiling of otherwise damn-fine plans!
[07:55] <pitti> RAOF: so what we want is "if there's only fb*, then use that, but if there's something else, then ignore fbdev"
[07:55] <RAOF> Right.
[07:55] <pitti> which is of course a bit tricky to do without a device to look 3 secs into the future
[07:56] <RAOF> Or, hey!  Just not start gdm on framebuffer appearance.
[07:56] <pitti> it doesn't explicitly start on fb
[07:56] <pitti> oh, it does
[07:56] <pitti> fb0 | card0
[07:57] <RAOF> So it should just drop fb0
[07:57] <pitti> RAOF: hm, so if we wait until "stopped udevtrigger", then we know about all devices
[07:57] <RAOF> But loose some boot speed, probably.
[07:57] <pitti> right, so drm-added card0 | stopped udevtrigger should DTRT
[07:58] <pitti> RAOF: *shrug* real men have machines with DRM these days :)
[07:58] <pitti> but better a tad slower boot which actually works than a really fast black screen
[07:58] <RAOF> I thought you meant dropping everything but udevtrigger.
[07:58] <pitti> RAOF: do you see somehting wrong with drm-added || udevtrigger?
[07:58] <RAOF> :)
[07:59] <RAOF> This particular case has *two* drm devices, and I think X actually wants to start on card1
[07:59] <pitti> if we have a /dev/drm/card0, it can go ahead, I think?
[08:00] <RAOF> Not necessarily.
[08:00] <pitti> RAOF: is that configured in xorg.conf?
[08:00] <pitti> or what defines "wants to"?
[08:01] <RAOF> Voodoo.
[08:01] <pitti> so, only stopped udevtrigger would be the safest option?
[08:02] <RAOF> Yeah.  Then we know that *all* the cards are up.
[08:02] <pitti> RAOF: could you ping Scott about that as well? He wrote all this and might have a better option for this
[08:02] <pitti> RAOF: like a magic "all-graphics-devices-are-up" or whatnot
[08:02] <RAOF> Yeah.
[08:03] <pitti> but for now it seems the bug should be reassigned to gdm
[08:11] <RAOF> Maybe I should assign the bug to Scott for his opinion?
[08:18] <robert_ancell> why is it when all the europeans wake up the servers melt down...
[08:22] <dpm> hey, good morning pitti! I'm in the process of requesting a full language pack export for Maverick (waiting for an export bug to be cherrypicked in LP). Once it's finished, may I ask you to help me to get langpack-o-matic to package it up and upload it to the archive?
[08:36] <pitti> dpm: of course, please do; I can start the builds and uploads
[08:36] <pitti> dpm: and good morning! how are you?
[08:36] <pitti> RAOF: sure
[08:37] <pitti> RAOF: we could also upload gdm with just "stopped trigger" now, and then optimize it again later on?
[08:37] <RAOF> pitti: Absolutely.  Want me to do the relevant bzr mangling?
[08:37] <dpm> pitti, great, thanks. I'll ping you when the export is finished. I'm very well, thanks :) Enjoying a bit of cooler weather after last week's heat in Valencia, so it's all good.
[08:38] <RAOF> Valencia has one of the coolest names in Europe.
[08:38] <dpm> :)
[08:39] <pitti> RAOF: if you want to, please do; I can upload it for you, please ping me
[08:39] <pitti> RAOF: do you have such a machine where you can test it?
[08:39] <RAOF> None that trigger that bug, no.
[08:40] <RAOF> Hm.  Is code.launchpad.net throwing 405 errors at bzr for anyone else?
[08:47] <pitti> RAOF: I just did a bzr pull in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gdm/ubuntu, and that worked
[08:47] <RAOF> Ah, yes.
[08:47] <RAOF> debcheckout doesn't work though.
[09:34] <RAOF> Right.  I'm taking that gnome-terminal crash to indicate that it's time to clock off for the day.  Evening all!
[09:35] <seb128> hey RAOF, 'night
[09:35] <seb128> RAOF, I need to chat with you this week, I will catch you tomorrow when I start ;-)
[09:35] <seb128> RAOF, just trying to figure what will still change on xorg this cycle
[09:35] <RAOF> Right.
[09:36] <seb128> or drop me an email during you day tomorrow to tell me that if you want ;-)
[09:36] <seb128> 'night RAOF
[09:37] <RAOF> I shall!  Have a good day!
[09:37] <seb128> thanks
[09:37] <seb128> RAOF, I'm interested to know what version will still change and the status of the specs concerning xorg
[09:37] <seb128> bye
[10:33] <bdrung> seb128: talking about patches: there are 16 open requests for ubuntu-desktop packages: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[10:34] <seb128> bdrung, I will try to review some
[10:35] <seb128> the categories are somewhat wrong though
[10:35] <seb128> ie valgrind is not a desktop thing ;-)
[10:35] <bdrung> seb128: that's dholbach's fault ;)
[10:38] <nigelb> #blame-dholbach
[10:39] <bdrung> nigelb: we have a separate channel for it?
[10:39] <nigelb> bdrung: not yet, but if public insists...... :p
[10:42] <and471> nigelb, will they be arch enemies of #hug-dholbach ?
[10:42] <nigelb> and471: nah, probably the same people :p
[10:44] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: I won't join #blame-dholbach
[10:44] <and471> XD
[10:44] <bilalakhtar> well
[10:44] <bilalakhtar> People make mistakes
[10:44] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: hahaha, I figure there'd be a lot of takers for #blame-nigelb :D
[10:44] <bilalakhtar> and no software is free of bugs
[10:45] <nigelb> oh, we're in -desktop and we're offtopic.  Sorry folks.
[10:45] <bilalakhtar> yup ^^ just !stop the discussion
[10:45] <and471> :)
[10:57] <seb128> sparc build record... is sparc still building anything nowadays?
[11:03] <bilalakhtar> seb128: all of my builds are failing for sparc.. I don't think so builds are going on properly there
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> i don't bother looking at any build failures for sparc now ;)
[11:10] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: your response to "and no software is free of bugs": "we're in -desktop and we're offtopic". Wow, our desktop is bug free. :D
[11:11] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: I didn't understand you. ?
[11:15] <vish> bdrung: our desktop has free bugs???  ;)
[11:19] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: with saying that it's offtopic, you could have applied that "no software is free of bugs" doesn't apply to -desktop and therefore that the desktop packages are free of bugs.
[11:19] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: I got you now, but one thing: nigelb said that offtopic sentence and not me!
[11:19] <bdrung> vish: yes, the bugs are free. you don't have to pay for them.
[11:20] <bilalakhtar> fixing the bugs as well as filing them is free
[11:20] <bilalakhtar> but triaging them is not
[11:20] <bilalakhtar> you need to pay for it, through hard word
[11:20] <vish> bdrung: heh , i meant it as a replacement for your sentence :)
[11:20] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: ups, s/bilalakhtar/nigelb/ in my joke.
[11:21] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: BTW, I have lined up a few merges. Free to review?
[11:22] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: we have enough motu sponsors. i let them do it. i concentrate on main bugs.
[11:22] <bilalakhtar> yup, bdrung is a core-dev :)
[11:22] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: that was not my main point
[11:23] <bilalakhtar> I know
[11:23] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: I understand
[11:23] <bdrung> we have 68 main sponsor requests open, but only 14 universe ones
[11:23] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: there is a shortage of sponsors for main packages, so you want to sponsor main requests
[11:26]  * chrisccoulson wishes he had some spare time to do sponsoring
[11:26] <pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson, bilalakhtar: sparc and ia64 will die next week
[11:27] <bilalakhtar> pitti: support will cease?
[11:27] <bdrung> seb128: are you indirectly subscribed to bug #595248?
[11:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 595248 in example-content (Ubuntu) "Presenting_Ubuntu incorrect transition time (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595248
[11:27] <pitti> bilalakhtar: nobody stepped up to care about those ports, so we will remove them for maverick
[11:27] <seb128> bdrung, no, I just review the sponsoring list every now and then
[11:27] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. so, i don't need to spend effort getting firefox to build on those :)
[11:27] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: one open mozilla request: https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/ubuntu/maverick/mongodb/add-xulrunner-wrapper/+merge/32504
[11:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no; I think xulrunner hasn't built on sparc for a while
[11:28] <bilalakhtar> good news for me as well :) no more unnecessary FTBFSs for my packages :) pitti
[11:29] <bdrung> seb128: i recommend to subscribe to commented sponsor request bugs (to get the response)
[11:40]  * vish hopes chrisccoulson would soon upload the gst string change before UIF :)
[12:19] <mdz> does anyone know how the panel decides which screen to display on, in a multi-screen setup?
[12:30] <seb128> mdz, I think it uses the xrandr primary monitor but vuntz would know better
[12:30] <seb128> bdrung, ok
[12:31] <seb128> bdrung, btw are you sure that gnome-media bug is fixed? the upstream one bug is still open
[12:31] <bdrung> seb128: yes (tested it). https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=616011 -> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595857
[12:31] <ubot2> Gnome bug 616011 in gnome-volume-control "when volume is on 0 and moved up the volume doesn't update" [Minor,New]
[12:33] <seb128> bdrung, do you have a GNOME bugzilla account to comment on #616011?
[12:35] <mdz> seb128: ah, interesting. I didn't know xrandr had a notion of a primary display
[12:35] <mdz> seb128: xrandr --output <foo> --primary changes it, thanks
[12:36] <seb128> mdz, you're welcome
[12:39] <bdrung> seb128: ok, it's commented
[12:40] <seb128> bdrung, thanks
[13:17] <dpm> pitti, the full export for the next maverick langpacks is still running, but I hope it will be ready tomorrow morning. We were planning a Kubuntu Translations Day on Friday to QA Kubuntu translations. So if the language packs would start to be built tomorrow morning, do you think they could be ready by Friday, or would that be too tight?
[13:17] <dpm> Riddell, ^
[13:17] <pitti> dpm: they usually take a day, so that shold be fine
[13:17] <pitti> dpm: right now the buildds are pretty crammed, but they should have caught up by tomorrow
[13:18] <dpm> thanks pitti. Riddell, I think we should be ok with announcing the Kubuntu Translations Day, then
[13:20] <Riddell> dpm: will you be able to have the output of the upstream vs downstream cheching tool available?
[13:22] <bdrung> Riddell: talking about kde: we have two open sponsor request for kubuntu.
[13:23] <dpm> Riddell, I should be able to, I'll set it up for the day
[13:24] <Riddell> dpm: groovy, I'll do an e-mail and blog post
[13:24] <Riddell> bdrung: ack, thanks for the reminder
[13:25] <dpm> Riddell, ok, ping me when you've done that. I'll do a blog post as well and I'll link yours, then.
[13:27] <seb128> kenvandine, did you meant to move your gwibber test suite items to beta as a target?
[13:32] <seb128> asac, hey, could you get bug #618757 on your review list?
[13:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 618757 in libgwibber (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libgwibber (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618757
[13:35] <asac> seb128: yes.
[13:36] <seb128> asac, thanks
[13:38] <bdrung> Riddell: ubuntu-sponsor should be subscribed after the FFe is granted.
[13:38] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah, although they don't really need to be tied to a "release" but i want to make sure we make some progress on it
[13:39] <seb128> kenvandine, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
[13:39] <seb128> kenvandine, see ;-)
[13:39] <kenvandine> eek
[13:39] <seb128> kenvandine, you have half of the team items count
[13:40] <kenvandine> yeah... i'll drop the milestone on them
[13:40] <kenvandine> i am tracking it and it is just noise
[13:40] <seb128> kenvandine, just change back to maverick
[13:40] <seb128> kenvandine, it doesn't mean you can't do the work for beta, just that we don't track those as beta tasks
[13:40] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[13:41] <kenvandine> before they had no milestone... should i change them to ubuntu-10.10?
[13:41] <kenvandine> or drop the milestone from the work items?
[13:41] <Riddell> bdrung: mm, hassle
[13:41] <kenvandine> i think it means the same thing
[13:42] <seb128> kenvandine, just "Work items:"
[13:42] <bdrung> Riddell: ?
[13:43] <kenvandine> seb128, done
[13:43] <seb128> kenvandine, or "Work items for ubuntu-10.10:" if you prefer, that's the same since the spec is approved for the maverick cycle
[13:43] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks!
[14:23] <rickspencer3> seb128, good morning
[14:23] <kenvandine> good morning rickspencer3
[14:23] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:23] <seb128> rickspencer3, how are you?
[14:24] <rickspencer3> seb128, I'm okay
[14:24] <rickspencer3> but ...
[14:24] <rickspencer3> I have to take my daughter to a doctor's appointment this morning
[14:24] <seb128> not available for the meeting today?
[14:24] <seb128> ok
[14:24] <rickspencer3> I'm not sure I'll be back in time for the team meeting :(
[14:24] <seb128> I hope she's ok
[14:24] <seb128> don't worry I can handle the meeting ;-)
[14:25] <seb128> I sent the reminder earlier already
[14:25] <seb128> did you have anything you wanted to cover this week?
[14:26] <rickspencer3> seb128, she's ok, she has troubles with her ears, and we take her to a special hearing doctor, who is not easily available
[14:27] <rickspencer3> but it's routine
[14:27] <rickspencer3> seb128, I saw you sent the reminder, thank you <3
[14:27] <seb128> ok
[14:27] <seb128> don't worry about the meeting just make sure your daughter is ok
[14:35] <seb128> pedro_, hey
[14:35] <seb128> pedro_, it's worth trying to ask people to get gdb stacktrace for new crashers
[14:35] <seb128> the retracers are broken so we don't get any automatic crash bug recently
[14:36] <pedro_> seb128, Ok , is there any way to receive automated notifications when the retracers are broken?
[14:36] <seb128> not really
[14:36] <seb128> you usually notice it because no crash bugs are coming
[14:37] <pedro_> alright, just wondering
[14:37] <pedro_> thanks for the heads up seb128
[14:37] <seb128> np
[14:38] <seb128> I'm concerned we miss some common crashers due to that
[14:44] <tedg> chrisccoulson, Hey, do you know if the thunderbird support for the messaging menu is in Ubuntu?  Is it recommends from the Thuderbird package?
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> tedg - it's funny you should ask about that ;)
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> there is no support for it yet, but this is something i have started to plan for next cycle already
[14:45] <tedg> chrisccoulson, http://www.andreasn.se/blog/?p=140
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> i was going to write an extension, but someone has already written an extension for it already
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's the one
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> i contacted the developer of the extension this morning, as there's a few things i'd like to change in it before shipping it in ubuntu
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> but if we can fix those things, then we'll probably put it in the archive
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> it's currently running a python helper all the time to interface to the messaging service, which i want to fix before we consider having thunderbird recommend it
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> it will be able to use ctypes in TB3.1, which will make the need for an external helper go away
[14:48] <tedg> Ah, okay.  Cool, I didn't realize there was that much work going on :)
[14:49] <chrisccoulson> well, i've not done much on it yet, but i'd started to plan to add support for this before i realised someone had already written an extension
[14:49] <chrisccoulson> it's something i'm quite keen on getting working
[14:49] <chrisccoulson> so, it will happen soon :)
[14:50] <jcastro> hi chrisccoulson, can you fwd me your mail with the guy? I was just about to mail him this morning
[14:50] <tedg> Woot!  Thanks chrisccoulson!
[14:50] <tedg> chrisccoulson, I'm all for getting this working as I can't convince sabdfl to switch to Evolution ;)
[14:51] <andreasn> :)
[14:52] <chrisccoulson> jcastro, sure
[14:52] <sabdfl> :)
[14:52] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - actually, i sent it though LP :/
[14:52] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if i can retrieve a copy of that
[14:53] <jcastro> heh no worries, just wanted to make sure I didn't step on your toes
[14:53] <chrisccoulson> i've not had a response yet, but i'll let you know when i do
[14:53] <chrisccoulson> i've offered to help to address some of my concerns with the extension
[14:54] <chrisccoulson> so, thunderbird will be in the messaging indicator for sure next cycle ;)
[14:56] <ronoc> bl8: hey
[15:54] <kiwinote> hi mpt
[15:55] <mpt> hi kiwinote
[15:55] <kiwinote> mpt: I've got the show/hide stuff nearly working atm
[15:55] <devildante> kiwinote, mpt: hi :)
[15:55] <mpt> kiwinote, oh, sweet
[15:55] <kiwinote> mpt: what are the precise strings you want displayed?
[15:57] <mpt> kiwinote, maybe just "_Show 17_ technical items" <-> "_Hide 17_ technical items". What do you think?
[15:58] <vish>   /join #software-center
[15:58] <kiwinote> mpt: yep, that sounds reasonable.
[15:59] <kiwinote> mpt: can I get rid of the enlarging that happens on hover, or is that there on purpose?
[15:59] <mpt> kiwinote, I don't think it's on purpose
[15:59] <mpt> I haven't noticed it before
[15:59] <mpt> oh, it goes bold
[15:59] <mpt> kiwinote, yes, please get rid of that
[15:59] <devildante> kiwinote: while you're at it, can you fix the number? it seems the number of technical items is in fact the number of all items
[16:00] <kiwinote> mpt: thanks
[16:00] <kiwinote> devildante: yeah, there was some weirdness going on there which I think I may have been able to solve as well
[16:01] <devildante> kiwinote: thanks :)
[16:01]  * mpt finishes tweaking aptdaemon's PolicyKit text, ready for glatzor to review
[16:01] <kiwinote> devildante: but I need to sit down and test what I've written and make sure it doesn't give any performance regressions :/
[16:02] <kiwinote> mpt: nice, we'll also need to fix aptdaemons deb file error messages before string freeze
[16:03] <mpt> kiwinote, while you're there, ;-) if you can give the top of that bar an outline so it looks like a solid object, that would be fabulous
[16:03] <mpt> kiwinote, fixing the error messages is a much longer task, I started work on it with glatzor at UDS Lucid but we only got about 5% through it.
[16:04] <kiwinote> mpt: sure, that should be easily doable, (I hope.. ;) )
[16:04] <mpt> thanks
[16:04] <vish> njpatel: hi, didrocks said i should poke you once i had a gdb/valgrind for Bug 616997 so that you could take a look at it.., so poke ;)
[16:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 616997 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[RV515] Unity keeps reloading with a white background (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/616997
[16:05] <kiwinote> mpt: yeah. We may not be able to get them all perfect this cycle, but at least making them slightly nicer would be good
[16:06]  * kiwinote has already seen a forum post about trying to decipher the error messages
[16:06] <kiwinote> (gdebi uses them as well now)
[16:08] <njpatel> vish, thanks for the poke, it looks like a crasher in libdee, I'll point the maintainer (kamstrup) at the bug, we'll try and get it fixed this week
[16:09] <mpt> glatzor, https://code.launchpad.net/~mpt/aptdaemon/language-fixes/+merge/32880
[16:09] <vish> njpatel: neat, thanks :)
[16:11] <vish> Sarvatt: ^^ the crash we were looking at this weekend
[16:18] <seb128> rodrigo_, hey, do you plan to work on the tomboy update?
[16:18] <rodrigo_> seb128, on updating to the new version you mean?
[16:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes
[16:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, I'm just checking if you want to do it before start on that
[16:19] <seb128> so we don't duplicate work
[16:19] <rodrigo_> seb128, I wasn't planning, but I'm working on fixing the ubuntu sso patch, so I can do it, to make sure my patch applies correctly
[16:20] <and471> mpt, hello, have a look at these (not mockups) http://jump.fm/TBRNA
[16:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, well as you want, I can do the update and you can rebase later on
[16:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, or if you want to do the new version update that's works for me, less to do ;-)
[16:20] <rodrigo_> seb128, if you want it sooner, do it yourself, if not, leave it to me, I should have it in a couple of days or so
[16:21] <rodrigo_> so, if you don't mind and want less work, leave it to me :)
[16:21] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok, let's see if I get my other tasks done today or not
[16:21] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok thanks
[16:21] <rodrigo_> ok, you're welcome
[16:22] <mpt> and471, crikey, the "Save file to your PC: _click here_" link is *so* much smaller than the big shiny "Download" button that turns out to be an ad :-]
[16:22] <and471> mpt, yeah sorry about that :)
[16:23] <and471> mpt, maybe you could send them a redesign ;P
[16:23] <mpt> and471, excellent start
[16:23] <and471> mpt, some stuff will not be correct, I need to read the spec a bit more
[16:23] <and471> mpt, but it is a start for the GUI
[16:24] <glatzor> hello mpt
[16:24] <mpt> hi glatzor :-)
[16:26] <glatzor> thanks
[16:27] <mpt> glatzor, I just pushed a fix for a typo of my own in the branch
[16:28] <glatzor> mpt, I think about introducing high level PolicyKit privileges, manage-software and upgrade-system
[16:28] <glatzor> mpt, if the user e.g. wants to add a repository aptdaemon would check if the user could obtain the manage-software privilege
[16:28] <mpt> glatzor, so that you don't need to re-enter your password to remove the thing you just installed, for example?
[16:29] <glatzor> mpt, if so it would request for it interactively otherwise it would fallback to the add-repo privilege
[16:30] <glatzor> mpt, right.
[16:32] <mpt> glatzor, it makes Ubuntu look a bit smarter if the alert says "To install software, you need to authenticate." or "To remove software, you need to authenticate.", instead of saying "To install or remove software, you need to authenticate." Is there a way to keep that while sharing the same privilege?
[16:32] <glatzor> mpt, manage-software would include (adding, modifing, removing of packages and repositories)
[16:32] <glatzor> mpt, upgrade-system would allow to update the cache and upgrade packages
[16:34] <mpt> The update vs. upgrade privilege distinction doesn't matter in the same way, though (partly because you can't upgrade more than twice a year)
[16:39] <glatzor> mpt, No, I can only provide details for the authentication, but those are hidden by default in the dialog.
[16:40] <mpt> glatzor, ok, I guess the precise language doesn't matter as much as having the alert come up less often
[16:41] <glatzor> mpt, "Keep system up-to-date" "To check and install updates for your computer, you have to authenticate"?
[16:42] <and471> mpt, am I correct that all the forms of the dialog on this page have no close/maximize buttons ever? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdateHandling#Launching
[16:42] <mpt> glatzor, where is that <_description> shown, if anywhere?
[16:42] <mpt> and471, yes
[16:42] <mpt> minimize only
[16:42] <glatzor> mpt, "Modify software" "To install, remove software including from new sources, you have to authenticate"
[16:43] <glatzor> mpt, It is just a suggestion
[16:43] <and471> mpt, except in some situations where there is no minmize either?
[16:43] <glatzor> mpt, it is written nowhere - it just came out of my head :)
[16:43] <mpt> and471, that one was a mistake, I left it out :-)
[16:43] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, Setting up xulrunner-1.9.2 (1.9.2.8+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.10.04.1) ... Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/x86_64/dl-machine.h: 466: elf_machine_rela_relative: Assertion `((reloc->r_info) & 0xffffffff) == 8' failed!
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> i've not seen an error like that before :/
[16:44] <and471> mpt, ok cool :)
[16:44] <glatzor> mpt, "to be allowed to install, remove software, you have to authenticate" is to complex?
[16:44] <mpt> glatzor, heh. :-) What I meant was, I can see that the <message> is shown in the PolicyKit alert. But is the <_description> shown anywhere?
[16:45] <and471> mpt, should any be resizable?
[16:46] <mpt> and471, good question. I guess the expanded dialog should be resizable, the others should not.
[16:46] <and471> mpt, okey dokey
[16:46] <and471> mpt, the issue is that when we set resizable to True, we show a maximize button - is this okay for the expanded dialog?
[16:49] <mpt> and471, sure, that's fine
[16:49] <mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdateHandling?action=diff&rev2=29&rev1=28
[16:50] <glatzor> mpt, AFAIK there isn't any admin tool PolicyKit-1. So suspect you cannot see it anywhere
[16:50] <glatzor> tool for PolicyKit-1. So I think ...
[16:53] <mpt> glatzor, if we were just merging install-packages, remove-packages, and install-file, the text could be: "To install or remove software, you need to authenticate."
[16:53] <mpt> glatzor, but if we merged change-repository into it as well, I don't think there's a way we could word it that wouldn't be either clumsy or wrong
[16:55] <mpt> It could alarm people by making them think they were accidentally installing or removing something when they weren't
[16:57] <mpt> glatzor, so maybe have install-or-remove = install-packages + remove-packages + install-file
[16:58] <mpt> and change-repositories = add-vendor-key + remove-vendor-key + change-repository
[16:59] <and471> mpt, I have coded that behaviour but metacity only updates the maximize button when the window is refocused, is this ok?
[16:59] <mpt> glatzor, and update-software = upgrade-packages + upgrade-system ... but leave the others separate, so that they can have understandable messages.
[17:00] <mpt> and471, fine by me.
[17:00] <and471> cool
[17:01] <and471> mpt, just get ready for the bugs about 'weird moving buttons!' :P
[17:02] <mpt> and471, none of them will move. Minimize will always be in the corner, and maximize (whenever it's there) will always be second from the corner. :-)
[17:04] <mpt> glatzor, and471, sorry, I need to get home now. Thanks for your work, and see you later
[17:04] <glatzor> mpt, see you!
[17:07] <dpm> pitti, according to https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+language-packs the full export has completed. Can you start the process of getting the language packs built? I guess langpack-o-matic should do the builds and uploads automatically, but I think Arne stopped it for the A3 freeze
[17:29] <seb128> hey there, meeting in 1 minute?
[17:30] <kenvandine> yup
[17:30] <kenvandine> well, now :-D
[17:30] <seb128> right
[17:30] <chrisccoulson> hi!
[17:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, kenvandine, Riddell: hey
[17:31] <kenvandine> short list today :-D
[17:31] <seb128> waouh, not lot of people this week ;-)
[17:31] <Riddell> hi
[17:31] <seb128> indeed
[17:31] <seb128> I don't think there was remaining items from the last meeting
[17:31] <Riddell> where is everyone?
[17:32] <seb128> Riddell, holidays ;-)
[17:32] <seb128> anyway, let's get started, will be a short meeting
[17:32] <seb128> kenvandine, partners update?
[17:32] <kenvandine> sure
[17:32] <kenvandine> UbuntuOne:
[17:33] <kenvandine> Might request a FFE for ubuntuone-preferences, tomboy, and u1music for desktop SSO use
[17:33] <kenvandine> however, i think u1-preferences and u1music are already using it
[17:33] <kenvandine> so just tomboy
[17:33] <kenvandine> can't confirm because it is broken for me
[17:33] <kenvandine> Include a default message in evolution, explaining how to effectively use UbuntuOne bug 615874
[17:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 615874 in evolution (Ubuntu) "Add Ubuntu One email to Evolution fresh install (affects: 1) (heat: 590)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615874
[17:34] <kenvandine> there is a solution for handling translations
[17:34] <kenvandine> should land this week
[17:34] <kenvandine> so a win win there
[17:34] <kenvandine> DX:
[17:34] <kenvandine> indicator-me - ported to libgwibber, will be in this week's release
[17:34] <kenvandine> indicator-sound - no playlists support for maverick, mpris2 is too late
[17:34] <kenvandine> indicator-appmenu updates including Desktop menu support
[17:35] <seb128> desktop menu for unity or will that work on GNOME as well?
[17:35] <kenvandine> and some alternative or other solution for unity which doesn't use nautilus for the desktop
[17:35] <kenvandine> seb128, i think they are trying to figure out what works best for unity
[17:36] <kenvandine> indicator-network and dependencies will get MIR bugs filed this
[17:36] <kenvandine> that is it for the partner update, questions? comments?
[17:37] <kenvandine> Riddell, how is U1 in kubuntu working now?
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i won't be able to sponsor kvalo's uploads anymore ;)
[17:37] <kenvandine> those branches get merged?
[17:37] <kenvandine> i know there was a review done, and some comments on one of them
[17:37] <Riddell> kenvandine: not sure, pencils down was yesterday and I need to review it all
[17:37] <kenvandine> ok
[17:37] <Riddell> but haven't found time today so far
[17:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson: right, when do you apply for having rights for those?
[17:38] <seb128> ;-)
[17:38] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - soon :)
[17:38] <seb128> seems some of the change are a bit late but we will deal with it
[17:39] <seb128> kenvandine, try to make clear to all those ffe requesting people that it's this week or they can stop thinking about asking an exception ;-)
[17:39] <seb128> let's move on
[17:39] <seb128> Riddell, kubuntu update?
[17:39] <Riddell>  - Amarok 2.3.2 beta about to be released, putting into beta PPA for probably FFe inclusion in maverick on release
[17:39] <kenvandine> seb128, will do
[17:39] <Riddell>  - kopete gcall support added back with separated package
[17:39] <Riddell>  - evan committed major ubiquity changes then ran away on holiday, have been porting them to KDE frontend
[17:39] <Riddell>  - qt4-qws needing review and approval in New queue by friendly archive admin
[17:39] <Riddell>  - lucid.1 images looking good to me
[17:40] <Riddell> that archive admin bit was a hint to seb128  :)
[17:41] <seb128> I can do that ;-)
[17:41] <seb128> thanks Riddell
[17:42] <seb128> anybody having comments or questions about Kubuntu?
[17:42] <seb128> seems not
[17:42] <seb128> so let's move on
[17:43] <seb128> no UNE update nor software-center one this week
[17:43] <seb128> next is the release status update
[17:43] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
[17:43] <seb128> we are a bit behind as you can see
[17:44] <seb128> (ignore the jump yesterday, kenvandine tried to move a spec to beta ;-)
[17:44] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html is on track though
[17:44] <seb128> your features changes should have landed by now
[17:45] <seb128> we switch to bug fix mode now
[17:45] <seb128> so make sure you spend time on stabilization and not extra changes
[17:45] <seb128> I think that's about it from me for this week ;-)
[17:45] <seb128>  
[17:45] <seb128> anybody having extra topics, questions, comments?
[17:45]  * kenvandine has something to mention
[17:46] <kenvandine> there will be changes to twitter, which we have been kind of expecting
[17:46] <kenvandine> that will need SRU and to land in maverick... but the solution isn't clear yet
[17:46] <kenvandine> they are basically shutting down auth for open source clients at the end of the month
[17:46] <seb128> do they have a time estimation for the changes?
[17:46] <seb128> urg
[17:46] <seb128> that's short timeline for a such change
[17:46] <kenvandine> that is a little harse... but they haven't provided a good solution for open source clients
[17:47] <kenvandine> they have been postponing it for quite some time... they decided to just do it now
[17:47] <seb128> is anybody talking to them?
[17:47] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:47] <kenvandine> i am trying to get an official response from them
[17:47] <kenvandine> their solution is to make every user go to dev.twitter.com and register their own twitter app
[17:47] <kenvandine> and provide that to the client they are using for auth
[17:47] <seb128> that seems suboptimal
[17:48] <kenvandine> which is clearly not good for end users
[17:48] <kenvandine> they say they want to find a better solution
[17:48] <kenvandine> but nothing yet
[17:48] <seb128> seems weird that would stop the service before finding a solution
[17:48] <kenvandine> i am trying to directly work with someone there
[17:48] <kenvandine> they say basic auth is too much of a risk
[17:49] <kenvandine> and just need to do it... been getting pushed back and back for months
[17:49] <seb128> risk? it's tweeting, not confidential datas...
[17:49] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:49] <kenvandine> :)
[17:49] <seb128> *shrug*
[17:49] <kenvandine> well their argument is people use the same password for twitter as many other things
[17:49] <seb128> how much time do you think you will have to take to work on that?
[17:49] <kenvandine> and people shouldn't be sharing their passwords
[17:49] <kenvandine> etc
[17:50] <kenvandine> unclear.. ryan already has done the work to make oauth work
[17:50] <kenvandine> so not too much if we can use that
[17:50] <seb128> ok
[17:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, the risk is that people can easily make accounts and use IDs to spam
[17:50] <kenvandine> we might end up needing to just disable twitter, which won't be much
[17:50] <rickspencer3> it's not so much a risk to the user, as a risk to the network
[17:50] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[17:50] <seb128> right...
[17:50] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah they want to be able to shutdown "apps" instead of accounts
[17:50] <kenvandine> but
[17:50] <kenvandine> if every user registers an app... it is just like creating more accounts :)
[17:51] <rickspencer3> what ever
[17:51] <kenvandine> anyway...
[17:51] <kenvandine> i am working it...
[17:51]  * rickspencer3 ducks back out
[17:51] <kenvandine> will keep you posted
[17:51] <kenvandine> that is all
[17:51] <seb128> thanks kenvandine
[17:51] <seb128> any other topic?
[17:52] <seb128> seems not
[17:53] <seb128> thanks everybody
[17:53] <seb128> let's go back to getting maverick to rock ;-)
[17:53] <kenvandine> thanks!
[18:25] <jcastro> what's the process for an upstream asking to be in "Featured" or whatever for Maverick? Is it just the same what we did for Lucid?
[18:30] <seb128> jcastro, I guess it is
[18:31] <seb128> jcastro, the software-center maintainers are on holidays though so not easy to check
[18:36] <lucidfox> How does the featured process work? As in, who determines which applications are featured?
[18:36] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Lucid/FeaturedApps
[18:37] <jcastro> is how we did it last time
[18:38] <lucidfox> While we're at it...
[18:38] <lucidfox> Is it still planned to remove the notification area in UNE Maverick?
[18:40] <seb128> no
[18:40] <seb128> it was not a maybe
[18:40] <seb128> ups
[18:40] <seb128> it was a maybe thing
[18:44] <lucidfox> hmm
[18:44] <lucidfox> What about Maverick+1?
[18:47] <kenvandine> lucidfox, i think that will be discussed at UDS
[18:48] <kenvandine> lucidfox, but i think the idea was we want to be able to do that
[18:48] <lucidfox> Right, as always... the most important decisions are going to be done in person and I cannot attend (not that my opinion would matter anyway)
[18:48] <kenvandine> :(
[18:49] <kenvandine> well you can always participate remotely
[18:49] <jcastro> lucidfox: you can participate remotely!
[18:49] <kenvandine> we really try to encourage that
[18:49] <kenvandine> w
[18:49] <kenvandine> whoops
[18:49] <kenvandine> hey jcastro
[19:24] <kiwinote> bug 618855
[19:24] <ubot2> kiwinote: Bug 618855 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/618855 is private
[22:39] <micahg> is update-manager supported to warn if some repos have not been polled for 7 days?