[00:09] <bobbo> Good evening #-reviews!
[00:09] <penguin42> hi
[00:10] <bobbo> anyone able to link me to the QA graphs page for Cleansweep?
[00:20] <yofel> bobbo: topic?
[00:25] <bobbo> aha, thanks yofel, I need to improve my reading!
[00:26] <yofel> np ;)
[00:50] <penguin42> a lot of the patches are very old, and a fair few of them already seem to have got merged or fixed sometime
[00:53] <penguin42> crimsun_: Knock knock
[07:32] <dholbach> good morning
[09:21] <nigelb> vish: um, we probably need to do that discussion here.
[09:22] <nigelb> vish: the 400 something count which I'm talking about includes only patches with the bucket tags
[09:23] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: I understand that
[09:23] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: we should first get them there
[09:23] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: and then wait
[09:23] <nigelb> vish: if you want you can go to http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/
[09:24] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: yes, so upstream has ot make a call.  Where does regression in ubuntu come into the picture at all?
[09:24] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: let me give you an example
[09:24] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: what we're doing (or trying to do) is not have people write patches and they stale in launchpad.
[09:24] <vish> nigelb: how many of the ones are we *really* forwarding? which have not gotten attention?
[09:24] <nigelb> vish: we have forwarded 200 patches
[09:24] <nigelb> atleast
[09:25] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: some patches get accepted upstream and then they create regressions
[09:25] <vish> nigelb: what i'm saying is tht we are claiming success from the work seb128 and similar teams have been doing for ages
[09:25] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: how can that be our fault?  Upstream has to make a call.
[09:25] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: GNOME bug #625675
[09:25] <nigelb> Its their code.  They should know.
[09:25] <bilalakhtar> no bot in here?
[09:25] <vish> nigelb: of those 200 how much have we really improved due to clean sweep?
[09:25] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: our duty is to foward them upstream
[09:25] <nigelb> vish: Do you have of any method to track that?
[09:25] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: fine, you win
[09:25] <nigelb> I dont
[09:26] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: Its not a win/fail thing.
[09:26] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: I'm only trying to explain.
[09:26] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: I meant you;re right
[09:26] <bilalakhtar> but I cannot mention it, so wrote 'win' instead
[09:26] <seb128> bilalakhtar, the issue is usually rather changes pushed to the distro without waiting for upstream review
[09:26] <seb128> bilalakhtar, upstream tend to know their code better and fix issues they create
[09:26] <bilalakhtar> seb128 is right, that's what is happening, and its my fault as well
[09:27] <vish> nigelb: no i dont, but i think its wrong to claim others work as our success,  my best guess is that we would have had atleast 150 forwarded are the work that seb128 and others teams have been doing already
[09:27] <nigelb> if upstream is introducing regressons, we can take blame for that too.  Besides all the ^**^% we get blamed for.
[09:27] <bilalakhtar> ok, seb128 and nigelb , see this one https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=625675
[09:27] <nigelb> vish: That is him helping us out in cleansweep! How can I not acknowledge that as contribution?
[09:28] <bilalakhtar> seb128 and nigelb : its regression https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626620
[09:28] <vish> nigelb: how is that? he has been doing that for ages..! why is that our success?
[09:28] <nigelb> vish: there isn't a condition that states its only number patches reviewed by volunteers or people other than desktop team that counts.
[09:28] <nigelb> vish: Why NOT?
[09:28] <nigelb> He's reviewing patches.  The goal of cleansweep is to review patches.  Where are you getting confused?
[09:29] <seb128> it's rather how you message it than what you do
[09:29] <seb128> because you claim those patches have been review in the cleansweep effort
[09:29] <vish> nigelb: you are just increasing his workflow and claiming that he has helped you? why?
[09:29] <seb128> but they have not, they have been reviewed by people doing their usual work they were doing before cleansweep
[09:29] <vish> +1
[09:30] <seb128> you should rather say than ubuntu forwarded nnn changes and that cleansweep contributed to that effort
[09:30] <bilalakhtar> seb128 is right, most of the [people on OC are long-time patch reviewers
[09:30] <vish> that is exactly what i'm saying , total reviewed patches != Operation Cleensweep success
[09:31] <bilalakhtar> http://bit.ly/ddQFie is the list of bugs with patches, however many of them have debdiffs rather than patches
[09:31] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: if you can give a list to bdmurray he can tweak the script.
[09:32] <nigelb> We have a new script that is a bit "too" active.
[09:32] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: yup, the new script is marking merges also with 'patch'
[09:32] <nigelb> vish: but how do you know which is which?
[09:32] <seb128> would be nice if the script stopped changing bugs already fixed for example
[09:32] <seb128> it's tagging patches since which have been uploaded
[09:32] <vish> nigelb: for one , the whole process is a shaddy
[09:32] <nigelb> seb128: we were losing bugs through cracks when we did only LP
[09:33] <bilalakhtar> seb128: yes, like https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ddclient/+bug/619141 nigelb
[09:33] <nigelb> vish: I'm not the one doing the tagging.
[09:33] <nigelb> vish: brian is the one doing the tagging.
[09:33] <nigelb> Talk to him.  Please.
[09:33] <vish> nigelb: but you know about it right?
[09:33] <nigelb> vish: yes, but I don't know how to fix it.
[09:33] <vish> nigelb: you suggested the changes?
[09:34] <nigelb> vish: No, you were on the mail.  Brain suggested the changes.
[09:34] <bilalakhtar> bdmurray: ping
[09:34] <nigelb> Wait, you suggested the changes.
[09:34] <nigelb> We missed a few bugs and you alerted me.  Remember?
[09:34] <vish> nigelb: it wasnt me.. i have at many times suggested several changes and you have just stuck to the currrent process
[09:34] <nigelb> I wrote a mail to Brian copying you and we have a new script that uses the bugs list.
[09:34] <nigelb> vish: which was discussed at uds, and noone raised issues.
[09:35] <nigelb> It was also mailed to -devel.
[09:35] <vish> nigelb: you should not have been adding more bugs and subscribing the team to new bugs was someone else's idea.. not mine
[09:35] <nigelb> vish: subscribing team to new bugs was what was decided at UDS.
[09:35] <nigelb> It was not my decision.
[09:35] <vish> nigelb: half the people who have tried to suggest changes have given up arguing with you, and just went with "meh!"
[09:36] <nigelb> vish: Only you suggested changes.
[09:36] <nigelb> ugh, I wish there was a mailing list.
[09:36] <vish> nigelb: several have suggested and i dont want to name them
[09:36] <nigelb> vish: Everyone wanted $foo, $foo1, $foo2.
[09:37] <nigelb> I had to stick with a $foo and get going.
[09:37] <nigelb> REmember, no one wanted to do this at all.
[09:37] <vish> nigelb: they have tried to question several workflow and you have argued for statistics and they eventually just gave up
[09:37] <nigelb> so I was more interested in getting the thing launched rather than dicussing.
[09:37] <vish> nigelb: yes, you did a great job is bringing attention.. i dont deny it :)
[09:37] <nigelb> if someone wants to make changes and feel it can be effective, I'm open to it.
[09:38] <nigelb> vish: If there was ever any reason was because it was I need to kickstart it rather than keep discussing
[09:38] <nigelb> we went for about a month talking.
[09:38] <nigelb> Finally, I stopped talking started doing.
[09:38] <vish> nigelb: doing?
[09:38]  * bilalakhtar will now leave
[09:39] <nigelb> vish: When the workflow was written, there were lot of oppositions.
[09:39] <nigelb> Most of it was, this is hard.
[09:39] <nigelb> I asked, do you have a better way
[09:39] <nigelb> Then it would squard back to, "this is hard"
[09:39]  * nigelb needs to get back to work.
[09:40] <nigelb> If someone came up with a meaningful change, I haven't rejected it.
[09:40] <nigelb> (maybe I've forgotten about it due to lack of time)
[09:41] <vish> nigelb: several times people have tried to reason with you, but since you have great interest they have just left it to your judgement
[09:41] <vish> since they didnt have much stake..
[09:42] <nigelb> vish: The time that the entire process was discussed, there were back and forth mails for months.
[09:42] <dholbach> can we try to calm down a bit?
[09:42] <nigelb> *month.
[09:42] <vish> nigelb: lets try this now.. :)  firstly, you should not have been adding more bugs and subscribing the team.. that is a way to get a more realistic number..
[09:42] <nigelb> vish: why didn't you raise it at uds?
[09:42] <nigelb> you were there
[09:42] <nigelb> It there it was discussed.
[09:42] <vish> nigelb: i wasnt in every session
[09:43] <nigelb> It was /not/ my call.
[09:43] <dholbach> seb128, vish, nigelb: we all put loads of hours into getting the number of patches down, we all worked very hard, what is the bottom line of what you want to change?
[09:43]  * nigelb isn't very sure what just happened.
[09:43] <seb128> dholbach, I don't want to change anything, I'm not in this discussion ;-)
[09:43] <vish> dholbach: nigelb: even now.. i dint bring up the whole discussion.. :)
[09:43] <dholbach> the end goal being: more patches getting reviewed, forwarded and integrated and bugs closed
[09:43] <seb128> I don't even know what the discussion is about
[09:44] <dholbach> ok, what are practical suggestions right now?
[09:44] <vish> dholbach: nigelb: i just wanted to mention it as a we need to actually do work.. somehow this got twisted.. ;)
[09:44] <seb128> I just made a comment saying that if anybody has a perception issue that cleansweep is claiming work it should do change the wording to say "ubuntu did and cleansweep helped"
[09:44] <dholbach> parts of this discussion read like a heated argument and if there's no practical suggestions, we can as well all go back to doing some real work
[09:44] <seb128> should->shouldn't
[09:45] <seb128> dholbach, indeed
[09:45] <dholbach> seb128, ok, I'm sure nobody tried to steal anybody's credit, but we can message that out more clearly - I'll try to do that when I blog about it next again
[09:45] <nigelb> seb128: ack.  agreed.
[09:45] <vish> dholbach: indeed.. :)  i just made a passing observation in -motu which lead to a lot of chatter :(
[09:45] <nigelb> M turn next week.   I'll do it.
[09:45]  * nigelb gets back to work.
[09:46] <seb128> dholbach, I was not the one who complained, that's just what I got from the discussion
[09:46] <seb128> yeah, let's back to work ;-)
[09:46] <dholbach> seb128, gotcha, thanks for your comment
[09:46]  * dholbach hugs you all
[09:46] <seb128> not worth discussing
[09:46] <seb128> for what is worth I'm fine cleansweep counting patches I forwarded as cleansweep effort
[09:46] <seb128> as long as it motivates people to work on cleaning
[09:47] <dholbach> numbers are always complicated
[09:47] <dholbach> you never get them right, somebody will always be pissed off
[09:49] <vish> dholbach: i actually dint get pissed off :s  i just wanted to say we need to do more reviews and that our numbers arent really very good right now :(
[09:49] <vish> dholbach: pls read my para on -motu  ..
[09:49] <dholbach> vish, totally agreed - we need to work harder :)
[10:12] <nigelb> vish: you've got time for a logo design?
[10:13] <nigelb> http://pollka.net if you're interested.
[10:13] <vish> nigelb: we already have one, right?  needs any update or a new one?
[10:13] <vish> oh!
[10:13] <nigelb> Its from the UW competition that happened a few months back.
[10:13] <nigelb> elky opensourced the app and called for contributors who would be mentored in PHP :)
[10:16] <vish> nigelb: its a standalone app or only runs on sites?
[10:16] <nigelb> vish: its a standalone app for quick polling
[10:16]  * nigelb points to launchpad.net/pollka
[10:17] <vish> cool!
[10:17] <nigelb> Actually, alanbell wanted the code
[10:17] <nigelb> and it ended up being on elky's junk folder
[10:17] <nigelb> and then as a new project and mentoring platform
[10:18]  * nigelb kicks google maps meanwhile.
[11:33] <vish> hmm..
[12:00] <vish> just for the record, i think nigelb is great ! :D
[12:00]  * vish just got pm'd by someone thinking i hate nigelb :s
[13:03]  * nigelb hugs vish
[13:03] <nigelb> belatedly
[13:03] <nigelb> Today is just a bad day.  At least my foosball luck is improving.
[13:23] <nigelb> hm, won all ames today
[13:34]  * penguin42 closes another bug-with-patch
[13:34] <penguin42> a lot fo them are so old that someone somewhere has pushed the bug upstream already
[13:36] <nigelb> yep, low hanging fruit.
[13:36] <nigelb> Like I said, we need more manpower.
[13:37]  * penguin42 has this week off so I'm happy to pick of the low hangers off and anything I understand
[14:17] <vish> nigelb: heh , yeah , somehow they thought i was angry at you.. [oh the joys of irc ;p ]  and wanted to use me as a mouth piece for their frustration!
[14:36] <nigelb> vish: ftr, if anyone has any issues, I'll just wait for him/her to have the guts to mail/ping me.
[14:36] <vish> nigelb: yay! mud fight? ;p
[14:38] <nigelb> vish: hahaha
[16:07] <nigelb> vish: what do you want me to do?
[16:07] <nigelb> unassign the bug from me and say I won't be able to do it?
[16:08] <vish> nigelb: hmm, i just entered... dont know what the context is..
[16:08] <nigelb> haha
[16:08] <nigelb> cheeeese!
[16:09] <vish> nigelb: ah! yeah, just add a comment on the bug about what pitti told you , kermiac will pick it up from there..
[16:09] <nigelb> vish: um, what pitti told me....
[16:09]  * nigelb has no recollection.
[16:10] <nigelb> The logs are on my laptop which is in the shop :(
[16:10]  * nigelb notes the "..." in the comments :p
[16:12] <vish> nigelb: yeah, that was an oopsie! i was about to write something .. then pinged you and not sure what i did there..