[02:50]  * lfaraone waves.
[14:26] <kandarpk> dfarning: good morning
[14:26] <dfarning> kandarpk, good morning
[14:28] <kandarpk> dfarning: did you see the screenshots I uploaded yesterday ?
[14:28] <kandarpk> http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=2mbavapx11vh92q&thumb=5
[14:30] <dfarning> kandarpk, yes, is it the activity you writing?
[14:30] <kandarpk> dfarning: yes.
[14:30] <kandarpk> dfarning: will it be useful ?
[14:30] <kandarpk> dfarning: any suggestion ?
[14:31] <dfarning> kandarpk, what does it do?  I did not catch most of you conversation with alsroot.
[14:31] <kandarpk> dfarning: it just provides the path of the module and its user interface with some description
[14:32] <kandarpk> much like the api documentation
[14:35] <dfarning> kandarpk, ahhh. very cool idea!  you are looking at the documentation problem from a different point of view.  That is an excellent problem solving method.  And may result in a interesting learning tool.
[14:35] <kandarpk> dfarning: I'll try to add the modules to the source on run time
[14:36] <kandarpk> dfarning: so that user clicks on a button to include a module, test it and click on another button to remove it from the source
[14:36] <dfarning> kandarpk, clever.
[14:37] <kandarpk> dfarning: so you feel it will help ?
[14:43] <dfarning> kandarpk, I am more impressed by your decision to re-approach the documentation problem from another angle:)  And yes, I can see how it could be useful to visually explore how the code fits together.
[14:45] <kandarpk> dfarning: hmmm, I would prefer watching the GUI a code provides and then exploring it than reading the modules any day.
[14:47] <dfarning> kandarpk, yep we all have perfered styles of learning and you figured out how to solve your problem using a style you feel comfortable with using:)
[14:49] <kandarpk> I'll be back in a moment.
[15:08] <manusheel> kandarpk: Hi Kandarp.
[15:08] <manusheel> Around?
[15:08] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: hello sir
[15:08] <manusheel> kandarpk: How are things coming along in reference to activity development?
[15:09] <manusheel> kandarpk: Any help required?
[15:09] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: I am going through the graphics module
[15:09] <manusheel> kandarpk: Did see the screenshot yesterday. Was neat.
[15:09] <manusheel> kandarpk: Great.
[15:09] <kandarpk> will try to add some GUI tools from it today
[15:11] <manusheel> kandarpk: Sure, Kandarp.
[15:12] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: I am a bit worried that the activity might be redundant/ repetitive
[15:13] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: it is very similar to the API documentation we are doing
[15:14] <manusheel> kandarpk: This is where we need to bring in a fresh perspective
[15:15] <manusheel> kandarpk: If we are doing the same thing that is written at API documentation, then it is not a good idea.
[15:15] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: hmmm
[15:16] <manusheel> kandarp: What we need to do is define a layer of presentation and information definition layer that helps the developers understand things uniquely and precisely.
[15:17] <manusheel> kandarpk: There is a common problem. A number of developers don't read documentation well. For them, this is a good point.
[15:18] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: Ok.
[15:19] <manusheel> kandarpk: Try and think on the lines on how you'll present information.
[15:19] <manusheel> That is the key.
[15:20] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: I'll try to dynamically add the features developers might want to use into their applications.
[15:23] <manusheel> kandarpk: Can you elaborate?
[15:23] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: we are presenting the graphical features sugar already has.
[15:24] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: if someone wants to add that module into one's activity, he should be able to add it by somehow dragging it or maybe clicking a button or some other means
[15:25] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: during activity development
[15:26] <manusheel> kandarpk: All the parts are good.
[15:27] <manusheel> kandarpk: Except, the last two points.
[15:27] <manusheel> kandarpk: Our idea is not to have developers use modules by dragging or clicking a button. If we are talking about developers, they'll never do that.
[15:28] <manusheel> kandarpk: Our idea is to keep the focus where it should be.
[15:28] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: Ok.
[15:28] <manusheel> kandarpk: That is, get them familiar with tools and modules, and arrive at a set of examples, which illustrate the use-case.
[15:29] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: +1.
[15:29] <kandarpk> got your point.
[15:30] <manusheel> alsroot: Hi Aleksey. Around?
[15:30] <alsroot> manusheel: yup
[15:30] <manusheel> alsroot: Where can I find the codebase of a.s.l.o?
[15:31] <manusheel> alsroot: Is it at LP?
[15:31] <alsroot> manusheel: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/slo-activities
[15:31] <manusheel> alsroot: Great. Thank you.
[15:32] <manusheel> alsroot: One question. Our plan is to rebase to django as we discussed sometime earlier. Have we arrived at a spec to understand what kind of issues, we'll face while doing this shift to django?
[15:34] <alsroot> manusheel: at first you cat `git diff` master branch w/ "upstream" (which is pristine AMO code), but it will be php code..
[15:34] <alsroot> *can
[15:36] <alsroot> manusheel: at the end, the major idea is: let users upload .xo/.xol files
[15:38] <manusheel> alsroot: Thank you for the pointer.
[15:38] <alsroot> manusheel: ASLO patch could look not trivial and it is in php (not sure how it will be useful to port it), maybe more useful might be just reimplement ASLO patch in Django, good start might be just support .xo/.xol uploading, later I will inspect php patch for other features I implemented there
[15:41] <manusheel> alsroot: We do have a strong in-house expertise in cakephp and php in general. Infact, I would like the php developers to have a look at this part. We'll surely see how re-implementation in django could be achieved, and how it could be made easier overtime.
[15:45] <alsroot> manusheel: let me know if you need machine to testing, there are http://activities-devel.sugarlabs.org/ for devel code and http://activities-testing.sugarlabs.org/ for pre-relase testing
[15:48] <manusheel> alsroot: Thank you for the links. Sure, will let you know. We are trying to gain familiarity with a.s.l.o has been implemented.
[15:48] <manusheel> Do we have documentation available on it?
[15:49] <alsroot> manusheel: there is only install docs http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Library/Devel/Installing
[15:50] <alsroot> it could be outdated, ping me if it doesn't work
[15:51] <manusheel> alsroot: Ok, sure. Any other resource on a.s.l.o development that you would like us to look into?
[15:52] <alsroot> manusheel: in fact, I used only https://wiki.mozilla.org/Update:Remora
[15:54] <manusheel> alsroot: Ok, neat.
[16:00] <alsroot> manusheel: just to let you know, I got that keeping binaries on ASLO is a painful thing, AMO support separating uploaded files to OS/arch but it doesn't work in GNU/Linux world, i.e. ABI for the same app could be different per GNU/Linux (and even per the same distro release). So, I'm implementing bazaar.sl.o which is patched opensuse OBS to handle all building/files related stuff. I think it
[16:00] <alsroot> would be useful to not separate ASLO uploads per SO/arch (since it not so useful), later it could be patched to support files from bazaar
[16:03] <alsroot> manusheel: in current ASLO patch, uploads are separated only by SP
[16:15] <manusheel> alsroot: Thanks a lot for these pointers. Very helpful indeed.
[16:20] <kandarpk> alsroot: Hi.
[16:21] <alsroot> kandarpk: hi
[16:22] <kandarpk> alsroot: I went through activity.activity.py and feel that it wont be possible to represent all the modules graphically
[16:22] <kandarpk> *most of the modules
[16:23] <kandarpk> alsroot: can you please provide some guidance on how to write an activity by which people starting with sugar could learn the initial steps involved
[16:23] <kandarpk> in writing an activity
[16:25] <alsroot> kandarpk: well, it's hard to say, at least what James Simmons did (http://en.flossmanuals.net/ActivitiesGuideSugar) is a regular way (in my mind) i.e. writing HOTO
[16:26] <kandarpk> alsroot: I was thinking of introducing modules by an activity
[16:27] <alsroot> kandarpk: you can also follow hello-world and hello-mesh activities, i.e. creating a template of activity for different purposes
[16:27] <kandarpk> alsroot: something which could step by step include various modules and side by side show how the activity is progressing
[16:28] <alsroot> kandarpk: well in that case I don't have any ideas..
[16:30] <kandarpk> alsroot: ok, I'll try writing it and will ask if I get stuck at some point.
[16:37] <dipankar> print 'Hello World!'
[16:37] <dipankar> alsroot, hello, good morning
[16:38] <alsroot> dipankar: morning
[16:38] <dipankar> alsroot, I was going through the link that you provided for patching.
[16:39] <dipankar> alsroot, I am confused a bit.
[16:39] <dipankar> alsroot, can't quilt be used to make patches too?
[16:41] <alsroot> dipankar: idea is simple, just call something like `git send-email HEAD^1` to email you last commit
[16:41] <alsroot> *your
[16:43] <alsroot> dipankar: but you need to setup some info at first e.g. http://pastebin.org/573630 it is what I have in my ~/.gitconfig
[16:46] <dipankar> alsroot, ok. But the thing is, I am not cloning a git repo as such.
[16:47] <alsroot> dipankar: there is no need in special cloning, just regular local repo
[16:48] <dipankar> alsroot, ok
[16:48] <dipankar> alsroot, I will be right back in 20-30 minutes. Going for dinner
[16:48]  * dipankar is away: Be Right Back
[16:55] <kandarpk> alsroot: when I add a button to a HBox, the button expands to fill the entire HBox.
[16:55] <kandarpk> alsroot: is there a way to specify the size of the button ?
[16:56] <alsroot> kandarpk: the regular workflow is not specifying exact sizes, but see http://library.gnome.org/devel/pygtk/stable/class-gtkbox.html#method-gtkbox--pack-start expand arguemnt
[17:02] <kandarpk> alsroot: I dont want to specify exact size, but some percent of the size of the HBox.
[17:02] <kandarpk> alsroot: how should I do that ?
[17:06] <alsroot> kandarpk: you need to call set_request_size() (see its doc) for your button, in that case button take exact (if there is space) w or h
[17:07] <alsroot> kandarpk: ..about my prev.prev. post, sorry, I meant not exact sizes but exact position, exact sizes is ok in gtk
[17:07] <kandarpk> alsroot: Ok, thanks.
[17:16] <ankur> hi alsroot :)
[17:16] <alsroot> ankur: hi
[17:18] <ankur> will you be able to guide me now?
[17:20] <ankur> i wanted to work on the part that every little change in control panel should not require restart. so , i have zeroed on code segment which should be changes but i was not able to figure out in which changes i should make the change
[17:20] <ankur> so in what direction shall i move?
[17:21] <ankur> i was looking in files of control panel , like gui.py and others but what would be preferred method of working
[17:21] <ankur> ?
[17:27] <alsroot> ankur: so your idea is that pickup new control panel components on the fly? w/o restarting sugar
[17:31] <alsroot> ankur: but control panel components are constant, I see only one use case - after upgrading sugar but in this case sugar should be restarted anyway
[17:45] <kandarpk> alsroot: is it possible to start some other activity from a running activity in sugar ?
[17:48] <manusheel> kandarpk: I would like you to find the answer to this question by yourself. Will help from a design perspective.
[17:49] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: ok.
[17:49] <kandarpk> it seems quite similar to what ankur asked just now.
[17:50] <alsroot> kandarpk: didn't do it by myself, but in theory sugar-launch should be used
[17:50] <dipankar> alsroot, I am back :)
[17:51] <dipankar> alsroot, so whether I have cloned the repo or not, I should use the git send-mail HEAD^1
[17:52] <kandarpk> alsroot: thanks :)
[17:52] <manusheel> kandarpk: Sure.
[17:52] <alsroot> dipankar: I meant, you need clone repo, it is regular patching worflow
[17:52] <ankur> alsroot, i think i was not clear in my question , what i was trying to ask that like if i change my name in control panel , then it should not require restart.What i figured out that there is a variable called needs_restart which needs to be changed from ture to false but in which cases doing it be feasible.How can i go checking about this?
[17:53] <ankur> like to be fool proof that there will be no other technical complication ? is there a standard way of operating?
[17:53] <dipankar> alsroot, ok.
[17:54] <ankur> *full proof
[17:54] <ankur> rather than fool :P
[17:54] <dipankar> alsroot, but I learned a new method 'quilt' for patching purposes in Ubuntu.
[17:56] <alsroot> ankur: need to see sources, if changing user name might be processed w/o restarting...
[17:56] <alsroot> dipankar: is quilt git based
[17:57] <dipankar> alsroot, I think no. neeraj showed me today how to make patches with quilt and he did not use git at all.
[17:58] <alsroot> dipankar: well, regular SL patching workflow is attaching patches to bugs.sl.o ticket or (afaik) send them via "git send-email" command
[17:59] <dipankar> alsroot, ohk. Now I get it.
[17:59] <dipankar> alsroot, this is for send the patch directly though email?
[18:00] <dipankar> alsroot, also I am still not getting the option to 'attach a file' at bugs.sl.o :(
[18:00] <alsroot> dipankar: yup, to sugar-devel@ w/ CCing to maintainers
[18:00] <alsroot> dipankar: btw, if you still can't attach patches to bugs.sl.o, email to systems@ or sugar-devel@, I didn't get how silbe is approving new submitters
[18:02] <dipankar> alsroot, ohk. I am sorry, but can you please provide me the full e-mail addresses?
[18:02] <dipankar> * systems@sugarlabs.org? *sugar-devel@sugarlabs.org?
[18:03] <alsroot> dipankar: systems@lists.sugarlabs.org (but I guess you need to approved once more:), or better just to sugar-devel@sugarlabs.org
[18:03] <alsroot> *to be
[18:04]  * alsroot don't know what silbe's email is (he has bunch of them and I'm not sure if will get arrived email :)
[18:04] <alsroot> *he
[18:04] <dipankar> alsroot, yeah. My emails are not approved at the first mail-list-server.
[18:06] <manusheel> dipankar: Use Sascha Silbe <silbe@sugarlabs.org>
[18:06] <dipankar> manusheel, ok sir.
[18:06] <dipankar> manusheel, but I am a bit confused again. What process shall I follow?
[18:07] <dipankar> manusheel, alsroot : please correct me if I am wrong below:
[18:07] <dipankar> 1. make the patch
[18:07] <dipankar> (i.e. change the source code)
[18:07] <dipankar> 2. commit the changes
[18:07] <alsroot> ankur: if we are talking about not restarting sugar after changing user name, I not sure if it is possible (at then end developer who code this component knows more about it, better to ping him, use `git annotate` for source file to see who created last change)
[18:08] <alsroot> dipankar: right
[18:08] <dipankar> 3. use 'git send-email HEAD^1' to send email. (doubt: But to whom :(, there are so many emails now!)
[18:10] <alsroot> dipankar: there are --to and --cc git arguemnts (so, "to" sugar-devel and "cc" to maintianers)
[18:10] <ankur> alsroot,  looking into it :) , also if i try to not change code and see that without restarting if the changes are being implemented , then will it be fine as a change?
[18:10] <alsroot> dipankar: or ping silbe to approve yourself on bugs.sl.o and attach patch produced byt `git format` to bugs.sl.o ticket
[18:11] <dipankar> alsroot, ^^ this is better option
[18:11] <dipankar> :)
[18:11]  * dipankar is going to #sugar
[18:12] <dipankar> alsroot, btw where can I find silbe?
[18:12] <dipankar> :P
[18:12] <alsroot> dipankar: he is not in irc last time, so only via email
[18:13] <dipankar> alsroot, ohk
[18:13] <alsroot> ankur: sorry, could you rephrase
[18:13] <dipankar> alsroot, I am working on the git format first.
[18:16] <ankur> i was saying, that if i change needs_restart variable of like say name changing in control panel and then check that if it reflects changes name even if i do not make it restart  by making some changes in source code, then will it be fine? here name was just an example.
[18:20] <alsroot> ankur: not sure, it will affect only some parts of running sugar, but there is also eg dbus service - PresenceServer and it should be restarted as well
[18:20] <alsroot> *PresenceService
[18:21] <ankur> alsroot,  oh right , then i think asking the end developer at that time is the best option :)
[18:26] <dipankar> alsroot, the command 'git send-email' is not working. Its always saying command not found.
[18:26] <dipankar> alsroot, I have done the git format-patch HEAD^1 to get the .patch in proper format already
[18:27] <dipankar> shall I send it via normal e-mail to silbe and other developers/maintainers?
[18:28] <kandarpk> alsroot: where should I look for info. regarding sugar-launch ?
[18:29] <alsroot> dipankar: if "git send-email" doesn't work, just send your patch to sugar-devel@
[18:30] <alsroot> kandarpk: just `sugar-launch -h`
[18:30] <alsroot> kandarpk: it takes bundle_id of activity as an arguemnt
[18:31] <dipankar> alsroot, ko
[18:34] <kandarpk> alsroot: how can I get to know the bundle_id ?
[18:34] <alsroot> kandarpk: see "bundle_id" option from activity/activity.info files
[18:34] <alsroot> ..in activity directories
[18:35] <kandarpk> alsroot: Ok, thanks. :)
[18:44] <dipankar> alsroot, I tried sending the mail to sugar-devel@ but here the failure report: http://paste.ubuntu.com/480036/
[18:45] <dipankar> manusheel, alsroot, please find an email I sent to you just now.
[18:46] <alsroot> dipankar: git your patch
[18:46] <alsroot> dipankar: btw, not sugar-devel@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org but sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[18:46] <dipankar> ok.
[18:46] <dipankar> alsroot, I am sorry, I didn't get you in 'git your patch'?
[18:47] <alsroot> dipankar: s/git/got/ :)
[18:47] <dipankar> alsroot, :)
[18:49] <dipankar> alsroot, here is their reply: http://paste.ubuntu.com/480040/
[18:49] <dipankar> :)
[18:49] <alsroot> dipankar: did you subscribe to sugar-devel@
[18:51] <dipankar> alsroot, I think I am subscribed to the mailing list
[18:53] <alsroot> dipankar: did you subscribe for same email as `git config user.email` is?
[18:53] <dipankar> alsroot, yeah
[18:53] <dipankar> *s/yeah/yes
[18:54] <kandarpk> manusheel sir, alsroot : please see http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=jnp9dbr95eadelz&thumb=5
[18:54] <alsroot> dipankar: hmm, dunno them, you need to ask bernie then why your emailt to sugar-devel@ rejected
[18:55] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: the plan here is to keep on adding modules and showing the outcome
[18:55] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: I am able to launch an activity using the button.
[18:56] <kandarpk> alsroot: ^^
[18:56] <dipankar> alsroot, Let me cross check the mailing lists I am subcribed to
[18:57] <alsroot> kandarpk: doog
[18:58] <kandarpk> alsroot: is it opposite of good ?
[18:58] <kandarpk> ;)
[18:58] <alsroot> hmm.. four-finger misprint
[18:59] <kandarpk> alsroot: but I have a problem here
[19:00] <kandarpk> alsroot: I was thinking of creating various modules for each step and launch them
[19:00] <kandarpk> alsroot: but they all should reside under the same activity
[19:01] <kandarpk> alsroot: so, is it possible to pass some arguments to sugar-launch so that we can check which module to start with from the given activity ?
[19:02] <kandarpk> alsroot: or any other work around ?
[19:03] <alsroot> kandarpk: you can place modules for each step to separate directories and pass PYTHONPATH envar(with pointing to particular directory) to sugar-launch exec command
[19:03] <manusheel> kandarpk: Neat.
[19:05] <kandarpk> alsroot: Great. Thanks a lot.
[19:05] <kandarpk> that should work
[19:21]  * dipankar is off for the night
[19:23] <manusheel> kandarpk: Great.
[20:32] <bernie> alsroot: the admin of sugar-devel@ is lfaraone
[20:32]  * lfaraone hides.
[20:32] <bernie> ;-)
[20:33] <lfaraone> fetching data for sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org ... nothing in queue
[20:33] <lfaraone> alsroot: what can I do you for?
[20:33] <alsroot> lfaraone: dipankar's email to sugar-devel@ was rejected
[20:34] <lfaraone> alsroot: he needs to subscribe.
[20:34] <alsroot> lfaraone: he said he is (dipankar@seeta.in)
[20:35] <lfaraone> alsroot: what was the rejetion message?
[20:36] <alsroot> lfaraone: http://paste.ubuntu.com/480040/
[20:37] <lfaraone> alsroot: listadmin -l goes from dfarning, diliner, dirakx, to djihedlists
[20:37] <lfaraone> so no dipankar.
[20:38] <alsroot> heh
[20:39] <alsroot> lfaraone: will let him know
[20:39] <manusheel> alsroot: Thanks for informing me. Will inform Dipankar.
[20:39] <manusheel> alsroot: Thanks.