[11:51] <amitk> ogra: where is the system-wide fstab that mounts the initial filesystems?
[11:51] <ogra> you mean /etc/fstab ?
[11:52] <amitk> ogra: no, the other one that upstart uses
[11:52] <ogra> upstart ?
[11:52] <amitk> where things like /var/run are mounted as tmpfs
[11:52] <ogra> oh you mean mountall
[11:52] <amitk> aah, right
[11:52] <ogra> thats /lib/init/fstab
[11:52] <amitk> perfect, thanks ogra
[13:53] <mopdenacker> rsalveti, robclark : hi! At last, here's the result of the parse-edid command:
[13:53] <mopdenacker> http://pastebin.com/9QwDri4a
[13:54] <mopdenacker> Produced on Panda ES1.0,  2.6.34-903-omap4 #7resalveti2 kernel
[13:54] <robclark> k.. will look at that in a few min.. in a call atm..
[13:55] <mopdenacker> Thanks! Here's my kernel log too: http://pastebin.com/MT3QJCDR
[13:56] <mopdenacker> Still observing the interlaced screen effet.
[14:00] <robclark> mopdenacker: btw, can you point me at a git tree and commit-id for the kernel you are using.. just so I know which patches you do and don't have?
[14:11] <mopdenacker> robclark: unfortunately, this info is not available. I just used rsalveti's pre-built kernel.
[14:12] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: do you have a git tree and commit id for your 2.6.34-903-omap4 #7rsalveti2 kernel, please?
[14:12] <robclark> ahh, ok.. so I'm guessing you do not have this patch http://gitorious.org/~robclark/pandaboard/robclarks-kernel-omap4/commit/6b36538ae4495bc4e6c44b01192814b4d702882f
[14:12] <robclark> since it was causing rsalveti some issues..
[14:13] <robclark> but it is required for monitors that can't do 1920x1080.. otherwise, what happens is fb configures itself for 1920x1080 (which is the default at boot-up before hdmi driver has a chance to read the EDID), and doesn't realize when the resolution changes to 1280x1024
[14:14] <robclark> which causes the weird repeating pattern.. because at start of row 2, the display is reading what the fb client thinks is 2/3rds of the way thru row 1..
[14:14] <robclark> (hopefully that made sense)
[14:15] <robclark> rsalveti: do you have time for an experiment, to see if adding that console lock stuff around the fb_set_var() calls helps w/ your monitor?
[14:15] <robclark> I can make an updated patch quickly.. but at moment don't have any good way to test it
[14:16]  * robclark is pandaless at the moment :-(
[14:50] <mythripk> mopdenacker: Btw can you try sysfs? ie do a echo 350 > custom_edid_timing ?
[14:50] <robclark> mythripk: I think his problem is the framebuffer resizing.. fwiw
[14:50] <robclark> hdmi driver itself is ok.. it is finding and using a supported resolution correctly
[14:51] <robclark> but unfortunately fb still thinks resolution is 1920x1080
[14:56] <mythripk> yes :) i saw that , it is picking 1280 * 1024
[14:57] <mythripk> but i guess the sysfs trial might trigger FB , so wanted to confirm that.
[14:57] <robclark> I guess I need to figure out a good solution for making the omapfb size-change callback work in all cases..
[14:57] <robclark> no, don't think it would trigger fb if he doesn't have the patch to add callback..
[14:57] <robclark> not if resolution changes, at least..
[14:58] <mythripk> i will be adding uevent for all the hot plug trigger in timing change , would that help fb to listen?
[14:58] <mythripk> can fb listen to the uevent ?
[14:58] <robclark> not really sure..  that might help userspace.. but I think normally that sort of notifcation would come thru DRM driver somehow..
[14:59] <mythripk> oops sorry my last bus time
[14:59] <robclark> k, don't miss the bus ;-)
[14:59] <robclark> c-ya
[14:59] <mythripk> :) good day
[15:06] <mopdenacker> mythripk: thanks for the tip. Writing to custom_edid_timing didn't help
[15:37] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: robclark: hi
[15:38] <robclark> ahh, hi rsalveti
[15:38] <rsalveti> http://gitorious.org/ubuntu-experimental/kernel-maverick/commits/rsalveti-ti-omap4
[15:38] <rsalveti> my tree
[15:38] <rsalveti> morning :-)
[15:38] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: morning! Where are you?
[15:39] <rsalveti> fine thanks :-)
[15:39] <rsalveti> let me read the backlog
[15:39] <robclark> rsalveti, do you have some time to try an experiment?  I can make a patch for the omapfb size-change callback with added acquire/release console lock, to see if that works on your monitor..  but no way to test it at the moment..
[15:39] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: like your answer ;-)
[15:40] <rsalveti> robclark: sure
[15:40] <robclark> ok.. I'll send you a patch in 10 or 15
[15:41] <rsalveti> nice
[15:48] <lag> prpplague: Good morning :)
[15:48] <prpplague> lag: greetings
[15:50] <lag> prpplague: Looks like we missed one another yesterday
[15:52] <prpplague> yea
[15:52] <prpplague> lag: rough day
[15:52] <prpplague> lag: L24.9 release yesterday fully supports panda audio
[15:54] <lag> prpplague: Very nice
[15:54] <prpplague> lag: you'll need an update pulse config and alsa.state file, but other than that it works fine
[15:54] <lag> prpplague: Has L24.9 been released to us yet?
[15:54] <prpplague> lag: yesterday
[15:55] <prpplague> http://dev.omapzoom.org/?p=integration/kernel-omap4.git;a=commit;h=4a49ddc5fdf3e4acf90ea4c219f9742b3be48ab8
[15:55] <lag> prpplague: Why doesn't anyone tell me these things - I'm meant to be reviewing it!
[15:56] <lag> Are ndec and sebjan away?
[15:56] <prpplague> lag: i know ndec is
[15:57] <prpplague> lag: iirc ndec will back on the 23rd
[15:57] <lag> prpplague: I think he may be on holiday
[15:57] <lag> And sebjan has only just came back
[15:58] <sebjan> lag, prpplague: hi, I just came back today :)
[15:58] <lag> Hi sebjan
[15:58] <sebjan> I aligned with cooloney earlier today
[15:58] <lag> Have you spoken to Bryan today?
[15:59] <lag> Then the fault lies with him :)
[15:59] <sebjan> I'll do some cleaning on the L24.9 patch-set (checkpatch is shouting a lot)
[15:59] <lag> sebjan: On here?
[15:59] <mopdenacker> robclark: I tried to clone your tree, and compile the kernel with your commit:
[15:59] <mopdenacker> git clone git://gitorious.org/~robclark/pandaboard/robclarks-kernel-omap4.git
[15:59] <mopdenacker> However, it fails with
[15:59] <lag> sebjan: Yeah, I know
[15:59] <mopdenacker> Resolving deltas: 100% (1301615/1301615), done.
[15:59] <mopdenacker> warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout.
[15:59] <lag> sebjan: I ran it through last week
[15:59] <sebjan> and hand-off a branch to him to add the ubuntu patch set
[15:59] <lag> sebjan: Are you going to try and fix the errors?
[16:00] <mopdenacker> That's just a warning, but I don't see the master branch
[16:00] <prpplague> thats odd
[16:00] <sebjan> lag: yes as far as I can in few days
[16:00] <lag> sebjan: When do you think it will be ready for us?
[16:00] <robclark> mopdenacker: hmm, possibly there is no master branch..  I do that sometimes to confuse people ;-)
[16:00] <lag> sebjan: If you can send me an email when it's ready, I can cast my eye over it
[16:01] <robclark> you'll anyways want to checkout L24.8_panda-hdmi-patches branch
[16:01] <sebjan> lag: I think sometimes next week
[16:01] <sebjan> lag: usre, I'll keep you posted as well as bryan
[16:01] <lag> sebjan: Okay, it will be worth us waiting until then
[16:01] <mopdenacker> robclark: successful attempt. ;-) Thanks
[16:01] <lag> sebjan: No problem
[16:01] <robclark> heheh, no prob
[16:03] <mopdenacker> robclark: Oops, I don't get *any* branch:
[16:03] <mopdenacker> git branch
[16:03] <mopdenacker> $
[16:03] <robclark> git branch -r
[16:04] <robclark> git checkout --track -b L24.8_panda-hdmi-patches origin/L24.8_panda-hdmi-patches
[16:04] <robclark> (or something roughly like that)
[16:04] <mopdenacker> Thanks, sorry for my lack of practise with git...
[16:04] <robclark> heheh, I'm same way w/ bzr ;-)
[16:05] <robclark> rsalveti:  I'm thinking the following patch on top of the "OMAP4:OMAPFB: register callback to get notified of resolution change" patch:  http://www.pastie.org/1102224
[16:06] <rsalveti> robclark: sure, will build and test it here
[16:06] <rsalveti> just a min
[16:06] <robclark> if it isn't working, don't spend time on it.. I'll just see if I can find a panda to borrow from prpplague for the afternoon, or maybe over the weekend
[16:07] <robclark> there are a couple other display issues I want to look into anyways
[16:07] <prpplague> me too
[16:07] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: I can build the uImage with the patch for you, if needed
[16:07] <rsalveti> cause I'm going to test another patch on top of the patch you need
[16:08] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: perfect, thanks!
[16:09] <mopdenacker> Is there a place where I can get Lucid packages for CodeSourcery cross toolchains? Or shall I install these toolchains manually (errk)?
[16:09] <mopdenacker> For armel of course...
[16:16] <rsalveti> hm, cs packages I don't know
[16:17] <rsalveti> currently I'm using maverick with linaro's cross compiler
[16:27] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/kernel/uImage-mopdenacker
[16:27] <rsalveti> with the patch from robclark
[16:27] <rsalveti> now I'm going to build mine to test
[16:27] <rsalveti> with latest changes
[16:28] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: hope I can find a package for lucid. We have a fast buildserver, which should run something stable...
[16:28] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: thanks! Do you have a deb package with the modules, or is it enough to test without the modules?
[16:29] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: it's enough to test without modules
[16:29] <rsalveti> I can generate a full deb file if it works
[16:30] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: all right, more soon.
[16:40] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: Ouch, my uInitrd got corrupted (bad luck). I have to restore it first from the image.
[16:41] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: you have to recreate your fat partition :-)
[16:41] <rsalveti> copy the files, run mkfs.vfat -F 32 and then copy the new files again
[16:41] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: a bug in u-boot
[16:43] <rsalveti> robclark: nops, same odd behavior
[16:43] <rsalveti> screens turn on, but nothing goes on it
[16:43] <rsalveti> so it's not a lock issue
[16:43] <robclark> hmm.. ok
[16:44] <robclark> is ubuntu kernel already based on 2.6.35?
[16:44] <rsalveti> but then you just set the overlay_info
[16:44] <rsalveti> robclark: nops
[16:44] <robclark> hmm..  I wonder what is the difference..
[16:44] <rsalveti> lag is still waiting the final tree from sebjan
[16:45] <rsalveti> robclark: what change in both cases is that in one the resolution is wrong, than it get fixed
[16:45] <rsalveti> at my case I believe the resolution is right already
[16:45] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: thanks for the tip. That's easier than I thought :-)
[16:45] <robclark> I mean, I wonder why I wasn't seeing that issue when I was testing on smaller monitors..
[16:46] <robclark> and in fact, why there is any change on a monitor that can already support 1920x1080 natively..
[16:47] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: I'm not sure it's a U-boot bug:
[16:47] <mopdenacker> mkimage -l uInitrd
[16:47] <mopdenacker> mkimage: ERROR: "uInitrd" has corrupted data!
[16:47] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: at least this corrupt issue should be
[16:47] <mopdenacker> The image really looks corrupted.
[16:47] <rsalveti> but why are you running mkimage on uInitrd?
[16:48] <rsalveti> you can just grab it from my deb package
[16:48] <mopdenacker> Just to check whether the image is corrupted or not.
[16:48] <rsalveti> get the new uImage, write it again at the sd card and test
[16:48] <ogra> rsalveti, -l just lists the setup
[16:48] <mopdenacker> It was "mkimage -l"
[16:49] <rsalveti> yep, sorry, was thinking you were trying this before -l
[16:49] <rsalveti> but you were just checking it :-)
[16:50] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: in my case if I get the sd card and write a new uInitrd or uImage, u-boot says it's corrupted during the boot
[16:50] <rsalveti> and recreating vfat fixes it
[16:56] <rsalveti> robclark: I'm getting a size_notify for 640x480 first and then to 1920x1080
[16:56] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: obrigado, I could recover just by replacing the corrupt uInitrd file (didn't have to format the partition again).
[16:56] <robclark> rsalveti: oh.. ok, that is odd..
[16:56] <robclark> it is like at first it can't read EDID..
[16:57] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: np :-)
[16:57] <rsalveti> robclark: yep, weird
[16:57] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: now I think I need your .deb file for the modules. The screen is just black (but the good news is the monitor doesn't complain... it's actually getting a correct signal).
[16:58] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: hm, just blank or are you able to at least see some messages on it?
[16:58] <robclark> so an interesting question might be why we can't go from 640x480 -> 1920x1080..    but I have a small monitor here so maybe I can recreate the situation..
[16:58] <rsalveti> my current problem with this patch is that my screen stays blank :-)
[16:59] <robclark> yeah.. question is just *why* it stays blank..
[16:59] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: just blank, but I haven't enabled the console on it. Will it go to tty0 if I remove "console=ttyO2,115200n8", or shall I explicit this?
[16:59] <robclark> maybe that intermediate step of 640x480 triggers some problem..
[17:00] <robclark> mopdenacker: you should at least see some penguins
[17:00] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: you can set another console argument at the same line
[17:00] <robclark> btw rsalveti / mopdenacker ..  are you using just console-only filesystems.. or one w/ x11?
[17:01] <rsalveti> remove quite and splash, if you have it
[17:01] <rsalveti> robclark: currently I'm using a console-only fs
[17:02] <mopdenacker> I'm using with x11
[17:02] <robclark> ok.. I've done mainly full X11 fs..  sometimes I don't see the console, but I think (or thought) that was just because the monitor didn't come on fast enough before xserver starts.
[17:02] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: good idea to enable both consoles.
[17:06] <mopdenacker> robclark: I added "console=tty0" and removed "splash", but I didn't see any penguin. The fb console stays blank after getting initialized.
[17:07] <robclark> hmm, ok.. sounds like same issue rsalveti sees..
[17:07] <rsalveti> robclark: omapdss HDMI: fallback to VGA
[17:07] <rsalveti> should it fallback?
[17:07] <rsalveti> it got the right resolution before this message
[17:08] <robclark> well.. possibly if the monitor doesn't support anything else
[17:08] <robclark> but not in your case
[17:08] <robclark> could you paste your bootlog again?
[17:09] <rsalveti> sure, 1 sec
[17:10] <prpplague> is this for L24.9?
[17:10] <robclark> hmm, if you haven't already, please enable dss traces too
[17:10] <robclark> omapdss.debug=1 bootarg
[17:11] <rsalveti> robclark: http://paste.ubuntu.com/480499/
[17:12] <prpplague> robclark: thats the similar issue that i have with the L24.9
[17:12] <robclark> monitor cycling through modes?
[17:12] <prpplague> robclark: basically it thinks there was a physical disconnect when there was just a soft disconnect
[17:13] <prpplague> robclark: see line 444
[17:13] <robclark> rsalveti: do you have any way to set your monitor to only HDMI input, so it doesn't cycle between VGA/DVI/HDMI ports when it doesn't find a signal?
[17:13] <robclark> prpplague: hmm, yeah
[17:14] <prpplague> rsalveti: i'm trying to collect a list of monitors that show these symptoms, can you give me your make and model?
[17:14] <rsalveti> robclark: nop, my monitor tries to be smarter than me
[17:14] <rsalveti> prpplague: LG W2253V
[17:15] <robclark> hmm.. damn
[17:15] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: what monitor are you using?
[17:15] <robclark> prpplague: maybe you could paste the patch for the change you made so rsalveti could try it
[17:15] <rsalveti> prpplague: hm, you fixed that already?
[17:16] <rsalveti> oh, #pandaboard talk
[17:16] <prpplague> robclark: the one i have is against L24.9
[17:16] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: does parse-edid answer your question? http://pastebin.com/9QwDri4a
[17:16] <mopdenacker> It's a Dell Monitor
[17:16] <rsalveti> prpplague: DELL 1707FP ^
[17:16] <robclark> yeah.. so might need some manual massaging to apply.. but it is a small change so I guess rsalveti can do it
[17:16] <prpplague> robclark: i can have a quick look at the L24.8
[17:16] <rsalveti> prpplague: paste me the patch
[17:16] <robclark> prpplague: rsalveti is using this tree: http://gitorious.org/ubuntu-experimental/kernel-maverick/commits/rsalveti-ti-omap4
[17:17] <prpplague> one sec, let me get it for you
[17:19] <prpplague> http://paste.ubuntu.com/480502/
[17:20] <rsalveti> one line :-)
[17:20] <prpplague> rsalveti: please note that this is very hackish and i am researching a proper fix
[17:20] <rsalveti> prpplague: sure, np, we just want to know if it works first :-)
[17:23] <rsalveti> prpplague: shit, did work :-)
[17:23] <rsalveti> robclark: ^
[17:23] <robclark> ah-ha!  prpplague you are the man!
[17:24] <rsalveti> robclark: now it doesn't call size_notify
[17:24] <mopdenacker> Thanks Dave!
[17:24] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: let me post you the kernel
[17:25] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: sure! With great pleasure!
[17:25] <robclark> rsalveti: good.. in your case, it should not.. since the resolution should stay at 1920x1080 and fb doesn't need to be notified..
[17:25] <rsalveti> robclark: yep :-)
[17:25] <robclark> so now I think with the combo of my patch and prpplague's patch, it should work for mopdenacker
[17:25] <rsalveti> probably, let's see
[17:26] <prpplague> dandy
[17:27] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/kernel/uImage-mopdenacker-2
[17:30] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: ouch, still blank!
[17:30] <rsalveti> hm
[17:30] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: please boot with omapdss.debug=1 at your cmdline and show us the dmesg output
[17:33] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: http://pastebin.com/L7c9NE3e
[17:34] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: please run dmesg at your console, then you'll get more messages
[17:34] <rsalveti> like the dbg ones
[17:34] <rsalveti> if you're able to login
[17:35] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: no, I can't login, but I can put loglevel=8 in my bootargs
[17:35] <rsalveti> mopdenacker: could be, but you can grab the console by creating the following file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/480507/
[17:36] <rsalveti> then you'll get a tty at ttyO2
[17:36] <rsalveti> robclark: he's getting just one size_notify: size_notify: 1280x1024
[17:37] <robclark> hmm, ok... I'm back to thinking there is a prob w/ the size_notify..
[17:38] <robclark> I think I will need to get a panda and spend some time on that..  but I have the link to your kernel, so I should be able to build with that kernel and hopefully reproduce it
[17:39] <rsalveti> robclark: you have the sources and the binary, if needed
[17:39] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: good idea. I should have thought about it before.
[17:39] <robclark> ok.. now I just need a panda..  but ok, need to finish looking into something else first
[17:43] <mopdenacker> rsalveti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/480512/
[17:43] <mopdenacker> rsalveti, robclark : sorry, I really gotta go. Mustn't miss my bike ;-)
[17:44] <rsalveti> np, see you tomorrow!
[17:44] <robclark> np mopdenacker :-)
[17:44] <robclark> c-ya
[17:44] <mopdenacker> c-ya, hope the dump will help!
[17:46] <rsalveti> robclark: weird, what mopdenacker got is basically your main base case when you tested your patch
[17:46] <rsalveti> tried 1920x1080, set 1280x1024 and calls size_notify
[17:47] <robclark> yeah..  it does the same thing that your's was doing before prpplague ... hdmi_display_suspend() and then starting over..
[17:48]  * prpplague looks
[17:50] <prpplague> hmm, looks like it is grabbing an odd config
[17:50]  * prpplague looks some more
[17:51] <prpplague> are we sure that this is an HDMI display and not a DVI-D display?
[17:52] <robclark> DVI-D should be supported too
[17:53] <prpplague> robclark: yea DVI-D should be supported, but it does look as though it is going into vesa mode for 1280x1024
[17:53] <prpplague> robclark: which would indicate that it is a DVI-D display
[17:55] <rsalveti> prpplague: I think he's testing on a dvi monitor
[17:57] <rsalveti> yep, this monitor is only DVI-D and VGA
[18:00] <rsalveti> robclark: prpplague: why do we suspend and then resume the hdmi again during the boot?
[18:01] <robclark> rsalveti: that is a good question ;-)
[18:01] <prpplague> yea very good question
[18:01] <prpplague> i was just looking at that
[18:03] <prpplague> that is very odd
[18:03] <prpplague> guess i need to do some testing with some DVI-D displays
[18:08] <rsalveti> hm, 2pm already, need to grab something to eat
[18:08] <rsalveti> brb
[18:09]  * prpplague hands rsalveti some coffee and says "get back to work!"
[18:09] <prpplague> robclark: setting up to test with my samsung dvi-d display
[18:10] <rsalveti> :-)
[19:43] <rsalveti> prpplague: were you able to test with your dvi-d monitor?
[19:44] <prpplague> rsalveti: yes and no
[19:44] <prpplague> rsalveti: looks there is a problem with calculating the 1280x1024 PLL values
[19:44] <prpplague> rsalveti: looking into it now
[19:47] <rsalveti> hm, ok
[19:48] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: were you able to test the es2 kernel?
[19:49] <prpplague> rsalveti: 1280x1024 doesn't appear to be calculating properly
[19:49] <prpplague> rsalveti: the other freqs seem to be ok
[19:49] <rsalveti> interesting
[19:49] <rsalveti> that could be the reason why it worked for robclark
[20:19] <prpplague> rsalveti: yea it seems to be only an issue with 1280x1024
[21:59] <prpplague> rsalveti: found the problem with the dvi
[21:59] <prpplague> rsalveti: i'll have to get a fix tomorrow
[21:59] <rsalveti> prpplague: cool, what is it?
[21:59] <rsalveti> ops :-)
[21:59] <rsalveti> robclark: ^
[21:59] <rsalveti> mopdenacker will be happy about it
[22:00] <robclark> oh cool
[22:13] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: Unfortunately no, not yet.  Will try tomorrow.  Do I need a new xloader & uboot?
[22:14] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: yep, do you want me to cook them for you?
[22:14] <rsalveti> easy task
[22:17] <GrueMaster> Yes, please.  (and don't say cook - I've had English meat pies for dinner every night).
[22:17] <GrueMaster> (burp)
[22:17] <rsalveti> lol
[22:19] <ogra> GrueMaster, did you find any reasons for the broken oem-config yet ?
[22:20] <GrueMaster> no, not yet.
[22:21] <GrueMaster> Very slow process.
[22:21] <ogra> yeah, i know
[22:21] <GrueMaster> All of my systems are going through a switch connected through my laptop, and my lt is thethering wifi.
[22:21] <GrueMaster> tethering
[22:22] <ogra> you should run an approx instance on your lappie then :)
[22:22] <GrueMaster> ?
[22:22] <GrueMaster> Yopu mean apt-proxy?
[22:25] <persia> The problem with packages is that there are so many that it's hard to tell typos from real names :)
[22:27] <GrueMaster> Also, I only have a 16G ssd.
[22:27] <ogra> i mean approx
[22:27] <ogra> ogra@osiris:/var/build/images$ du -hcs /var/cache/approx/
[22:27] <ogra> 2,1G	/var/cache/approx/
[22:28] <ogra> thats for all releases since jaunty (main only for i386 and armel)
[22:29] <GrueMaster> Sure, Now you tell me.  On the last day of the sprint.
[22:30] <ogra> i tell everyone since years :P