[03:37] <thune3> rww suggested I come in here to discuss the #ubuntu anti-spam strategy. As I am not one to register (and I don't think casual new ubuntu users would be either); I'm wondering if a strategy that preserves the welcoming nature of #ubuntu, while protecting the channel against spam, might be implemented.
[03:40] <IdleOne> any suggestions on how to accomplish that
[03:41] <thune3> it depends on the nature of the spam, if it is distributed, or automated
[03:41] <bazhang> share it with #freenode ##linux and the other major channels as well
[03:43] <bazhang> and I doubt new users feel welcomed when they witness flood of spam, registered or not
[03:43] <thune3> i do understand that spam==bad
[03:43] <thune3> i assume that banning a few addresses is insufficient. i've seen capcha style implementations, or send this message to the bot to get voice
[03:43] <IdleOne> thune3: the spam problem is not just in #ubuntu it effects the entire network, unfortunately or fortunately #ubuntu is a very large channel. freenode does not require registration to be on the network and neither do Ubuntu IRC channels but in times of high spam there is at this point no better method.
[03:44] <bazhang> +m ?
[03:44] <bazhang> that seems extreme
[03:45] <thune3> of course that's not an option
[03:45] <bazhang> the ask bot for voice is just that
[03:46] <thune3> oh i thought +m was something else, oops
[03:46] <IdleOne> not to mention probably not difficult to script
[03:46] <IdleOne> +m means only voiced users can speak in channel
[03:46] <bazhang> #defocus has it, though the bot needs prompting from a staff member
[03:46] <IdleOne> scripting a bot to ask the bot for voice would not be complicated to accomplish
[03:47] <bazhang> and spambots would use the very same script, so nothing blocked
[03:47] <thune3> that's sort of gets back to the question: what is the nature of the attack. Do you have someone writing a bot to specifically attack #ubuntu?
[03:48] <bazhang> freenode
[03:48] <IdleOne> they attack freenode
[03:48] <bazhang> all major channels get hit afaict
[03:48] <IdleOne> #ubuntu is a 1300+ user channel so a BIG target
[03:49] <thune3> all the #ubuntu-xx channels don't seem to require protection. if the attack is bots on freenode, how is that possible?
[03:49] <bazhang> loco channels?
[03:49] <IdleOne> thune3: I can understand your reluctance to register but you could setup a gmail account for the specific purpose of registering to freenode and then never look at it again.
[03:50] <IdleOne> thune3: the target is as many users as possible, why would you attack a channel with 200 users when you got a 1000 user channel to hit and annoy
[03:51] <bazhang> some loco channels get almost zero traffic. probably not enough thrills involved
[03:52] <thune3> IdleOne: if I came to #ubuntu on freenode for the first time, and saw I had to register, I would not ever bother coming again. I imagine the unregged/register strategy puts off lots of legitimate users with questions.
[03:52] <bazhang> odd
[03:53] <thune3> btw, the freenode 'interim privacy policy' is also uninspiring.
[03:53] <bazhang> ubuntuforums require registration, as do every other major source of help outside of irc.
[03:53] <IdleOne> thune3: it may put off some new users but in the end the protection of existing users can't be comprimised either
[03:54] <IdleOne> it's a catch 22, we lose some I'm sure but we also keep the existing user base.
[03:54] <bazhang> 1222 at last count had no problems with it. I'd imagine the majority are new users
[03:54] <thune3> right and it's normally running 1400-1600.
[03:55] <bazhang> 150 or so in -unregged
[03:55] <thune3> question: do ops in #ubuntu have kickban powers?
[03:55] <thune3> do you guys ban ips?
[03:55] <bazhang> yes
[03:56] <IdleOne> also if it was a simple matter of banning a few ip addresses it would be done but these spam attacks are coordinated and they have thousands of compromised systems to attack from.
[03:56] <IdleOne> we could ban all day long and they would just keep coming
[03:56] <bazhang> shell providers as well (at least some)
[03:57] <IdleOne> the less reputable ones
[03:57] <bazhang> mibbit was outright banned from all of freenode
[03:57] <IdleOne> actually I saw a mibbit account not long ago
[03:58] <bazhang> that was an ident afaict
[03:58] <IdleOne> ah maybe yeah
[03:59] <thune3> why is voiceless join on #ubuntu during incidences of high spam a bad thing?
[03:59] <bazhang> and lets face it, those disreputable shell accounts are the major source of issues, as well as various unregged spam/flood bots
[03:59] <thune3> why is unregged preferred?
[04:00] <bazhang> that's quite extreme if you mean +q ~a
[04:00] <IdleOne> thune3: because they could join 50 bots over a few hours and just sit idle, send in one bot to spam and have the channel be set to +m then we have to voice all the users in the channel ( we HAVE to assume they are all legit users) and then they start an 50 bot attack with voice.
[04:01] <bazhang> the entire channel would be shut down as a result
[04:01] <IdleOne> exactly
[04:01] <bazhang> just their goal in fact
[04:01] <IdleOne> this is the only viable solution at this time
[04:02] <bazhang> so +r is the least of all possible options, in terms of usable channel and letting others get on with receiving help
[04:02] <IdleOne> thune3: it isn't perfect, we know that.
[04:03] <thune3> may i ask, how do you determine the "safe to end lockdown point"?
[04:03] <bazhang> as short as possible
[04:04] <bazhang> there is not a magic 8-ball
[04:04] <bazhang> I'd imagine when jr. high gets back then it'll be less severe
[04:05] <IdleOne> another week or so
[04:05] <thune3> lol
[04:05] <bazhang> yep
[04:06] <bazhang> we dislike it as much as you do.
[04:07] <IdleOne> Now if you can figure out a better way to prevent these attacks network wide then I am sure #freenode would be happy to implement it.
[04:07] <bazhang> but keeping the channel accessible for the majority of users is the best of all possible options at this stage
[04:07] <thune3> if the bots were not being actively scripted to counter-countermeasures, it would seem a capcha style voice granting or message floodbot a random string to get voice would be sufficient.
[04:07] <bazhang> write it and share it with freenode then
[04:09] <IdleOne> just FYI in 4 years, 33 weeks, 2 days, 23:50:00 I have received a total of 4 emails from freenode.
[04:09] <thune3> so the structure is that #ubuntu ops use the tools adopted by the more central ops in freenod?
[04:10] <bazhang> they are staff. we administer independently of them
[04:10] <thune3> IdleOne: i would be more worried about the security of the list than its use by freenode
[04:10] <thune3> bazhang: ah ok.
[04:11] <IdleOne> thune3: I gave you a possible solution for that
[04:11] <bazhang> we have kick, mute, quiet. they have kill and kline
[04:11] <bazhang> whoops s/mute/ban/
[04:11] <thune3> IdleOne: i know, i'm in the midst of standing on some shaky principle right now ;)
[04:12] <thune3> thanks guys, i'm still frustrated and i appreciate your advice and clarifications.
[04:12] <IdleOne> heh, I know where you're coming from dude. Sometimes you just got to try and work with the system.
[04:13] <thune3> thanks and good luck!
[04:13] <IdleOne> thank you.
[09:44] <jpds> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[09:45] <Madpilot> ?
[09:45] <jpds> 09:43:49 [Freenode] -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- #ubuntu is not registered.
[09:45] <maco> getting your args out of order?
[09:46] <jpds> maco: Oh yeah.
[09:46]  * jpds → coffee.
[09:47] <maco> every time i try to do something with irc commands without use of an alias, i get that error
[14:35] <bazhang> that's annoying
[14:35] <Pici> tes
[14:35] <Pici> yes too
[15:54] <bazhang> pozic is annoying
[15:59] <Pici> odd.
[16:53] <bazhang> whoa offensive nick
[16:55] <jpds> bazhang: "nick" isn't in #ubuntu.
[16:55] <bazhang> * whore__ (~suchaputz@c-69-255-195-78.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu
[17:16] <bazhang> ryaxnb is unbanned?
[17:19] <ikonia> I thought so
[17:19] <bazhang> ah just switched IP
[17:19] <bazhang> nope
[17:19] <Pici> I don't see a ban.
[17:20] <bazhang> 12.106.45.2
[17:24] <ikonia> ?
[17:24] <bazhang> acepreshaw knows you?
[17:24] <ikonia> I don't see it
[17:24] <ikonia> troll
[17:24] <bazhang> its there
[17:24] <ikonia> on shipit ?
[17:25] <bazhang> no the ban in -ot
[17:25] <ikonia> h
[17:25] <Pici> I just placed it.
[17:25] <ikonia> I thought it had been removed
[17:25] <ikonia> he came in here the other day and said his IP had chanced and he didn't know if the ban was in place
[17:26] <ikonia> bazhang: it's his standard junk he talks
[17:26] <ikonia> he's asked where he can get cd's for $100 before
[17:26] <ikonia> he knows the drill
[17:26] <bazhang> ikonia, other nicks are known?
[17:26] <ikonia> not to me, just that one
[17:26] <bazhang> okay
[17:26] <bazhang> yeah, he has two different places to connect from.
[17:27] <ikonia> BT and freenode
[17:27] <ikonia> ahhh and here is servertech for more pointless dribble
[18:04] <Pici> Wow, someone actually posted a video on youtube of their problem and it wasn't a spam link.
[18:07] <ikonia> rare
[18:24] <ryaxnb> flannel is still not back :(
[19:24] <Pici> gnomefreak: known troll
[19:25] <gnomefreak> ah
[19:25] <Pici> probably will get klined soon.
[19:26] <gnomefreak> i thought you were staff
[19:26] <Pici> Nope
[19:26] <gnomefreak> oh
[19:26] <Pici> Thats pricey.
[19:27] <Pici> Whom I haven't seen in forever.
[19:27] <gnomefreak> me neither but i am not here alot anymore
[19:27] <maco> oh good im not the only one who confuses you two
[19:28] <marienz> yeah, I've given up on trying to talk to that one
[19:28] <gnomefreak> i stay confused unless im smoking. i guess sitting outside gives me time to think so it helps
[19:28] <gnomefreak> brb smoke :)
[20:45] <Seveas> #ubuntu / efuse -- likely troll
[20:50] <Pici> yes
[20:50] <Pici> I didn't ban him.
[20:50] <Seveas> I know
[20:51] <Seveas> if you remove the n mode from here, I can send messages without joining :)
[21:47] <ryaxnb> can we get this ban over with pls?
[21:47] <ryaxnb> i still am waiting for flannel :/
[21:48] <ryaxnb> if you tell me when she/he will be back ill discuss it then.
[21:48] <ryaxnb> :/
[21:49] <mneptok> ryaxnb: i have no idea what Flannel's IRC plans may be
[21:49] <ryaxnb> ok
[21:49] <ryaxnb> :(
[21:49] <ryaxnb> i suppose i should /part then :/
[21:50] <mneptok> ryaxnb: /whois says idle for 7 hours.
[21:54] <ryaxnb> my window says away
[21:54] <ryaxnb> faded, thus away :/
[21:54] <ryaxnb> --
[21:54] <ryaxnb> seeya