| elky | akgraner, remind me which day we need to embarrass you on? | 01:06 |
|---|---|---|
| akgraner | elky it would be the last day of UDS :-P | 01:09 |
| akgraner | just remember - paybacks | 01:09 |
| akgraner | we'll delay embarrassing you until that week as well :-) | 01:16 |
| elky | akgraner, oh, but my birthday isn't until /after/ UDS :D | 01:21 |
| rww | unbirthday! | 01:22 |
| Pendulum | elky: shhh... you weren't supposed to clue akgraner in :P | 01:23 |
| akgraner | rww, +1 unbirthdays | 01:23 |
| akgraner | woo hoo | 01:23 |
| Pendulum | akgraner: you mean if elky finds a way to embarrass you, you won't fly to Australia for payback? :P | 01:24 |
| akgraner | no I will | 01:24 |
| akgraner | :-) Australia is on my list of places | 01:24 |
| akgraner | :-) | 01:24 |
| rww | ... to avoid due to spiders? | 01:25 |
| MichelleQ | rww: I like the way you think | 01:25 |
| MichelleQ | both with the unbirthdays, and the spiders | 01:25 |
| Pendulum | cake! | 01:27 |
| Pendulum | we'll have to have cake! | 01:27 |
| Pendulum | (sorry, I am currently dieting. This puts cake on my mind a lot ;) ) | 01:28 |
| elky | Mmm, cake | 01:33 |
| MichelleQ | Pendulum: I'm good with cake. | 01:53 |
| MichelleQ | I'll even agree to make said cake. | 01:53 |
| rww | I made vegan cake once, mainly to avoid fiddling with eggs :( | 01:54 |
| Pendulum | vegan cake isn't actually that hard to make | 01:56 |
| rww | tastes pretty good, too | 01:56 |
| MichelleQ | yeah, it's not too hard at all | 02:20 |
| MichelleQ | Betty Crocker does an amazing GFCF cake mix, too. Can't swear to the eggage though | 02:20 |
| === izdubar is now known as MarkDude | ||
| === Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok | ||
| czajkowski | hypatia: is there any tag specific to a hackerspace? | 10:08 |
| czajkowski | one generic one ? | 10:08 |
| hypatia | for blogging? twitter? | 10:10 |
| hypatia | i usually use #hackerspaces on twitter | 10:10 |
| czajkowski | ok | 10:13 |
| czajkowski | tis kinda long but good to know | 10:13 |
| czajkowski | we;re setting one up in my home town Limerick | 10:13 |
| hypatia | i think !hs works on identica. also | 10:13 |
| hypatia | cool! | 10:13 |
| hypatia | make sure you go over the docs on the wiki | 10:13 |
| hypatia | the design patterns stuff is awesome | 10:13 |
| czajkowski | oh? | 10:14 |
| hypatia | 05:07 < danni> but something that's come out of my therapy is the need to understand your boundaries and desires and needs, and to be able to communicate them | 10:14 |
| hypatia | 05:09 < danni> but it's not easy, because it gives someone a roadmap both to what you want, but also to what makes you vulnerable | 10:14 |
| hypatia | aw fuck | 10:14 |
| hypatia | that was not the paste buffer i meant to paste | 10:14 |
| czajkowski | oh and I also get to meet david rook soon as he's giving talk/demos at my event | 10:14 |
| hypatia | excuse my french | 10:14 |
| hypatia | http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Documentation | 10:14 |
| hypatia | was the link i meant to paste | 10:15 |
| czajkowski | thanks | 10:15 |
| valorie | hypatia, if that was private -- might want to edit the posted logs | 10:15 |
| hypatia | can we edit them? | 10:16 |
| hypatia | it was private :/ | 10:16 |
| valorie | I don't know whom to ask, but I would think so | 10:16 |
| valorie | in such cases | 10:16 |
| rww | it's done by Canonical, and goes live at a couple of minutes past the hour, and is cached into Google and such, so... you have 45 minutes :\ | 10:16 |
| hypatia | i'll check with the person whose logs i just pasted | 10:16 |
| * hypatia checked, it's all good | 10:18 | |
| hypatia | ugh logging | 10:19 |
| rww | indeed | 10:19 |
| czajkowski | accidents happen | 10:21 |
| hypatia | s'true :) | 10:21 |
| * hypatia just prefers her accidents to not be indexed by the googles | 10:22 | |
| czajkowski | true | 10:22 |
| czajkowski | I need breakie! | 10:24 |
| czajkowski | food has been had | 10:48 |
| ghost | ingles? | 18:12 |
| maco | si, ingles | 18:14 |
| IdleOne | ghost: you live in Boston | 18:19 |
| pleia2 | interesting http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Statistics | 18:34 |
| pleia2 | (of course since this is debian it only counts women who have/had actual changelog entries in packages in the archive) | 18:35 |
| IdleOne | is there a reason for even needing to have those stats? | 18:40 |
| IdleOne | I mean for me it doesn't make a difference if the DD is male or female | 18:41 |
| nigelb | pleia2: just 10? :( | 18:41 |
| nigelb | 1% | 18:41 |
| pleia2 | nigelb: yeah, numbers for actual developers in projects are still pretty low | 18:42 |
| pleia2 | IdleOne: we have statisics like that too, these are -women projects and to track our effectiveness over the years you need to have numbers | 18:42 |
| nigelb | pleia2: but comparitively ubuntu is not so well off either :( | 18:42 |
| pleia2 | nigelb: *nod* | 18:42 |
| nigelb | I only know of <10 women developers on Ubuntu (i.e. with actual uploads) | 18:43 |
| pleia2 | I think lucidfox and I are the only two on that list | 18:43 |
| pleia2 | and I don't count on the ubuntu side | 18:43 |
| maco | lucidfox, me, yulia, sarah, leann, and rhonda are all the women with upload rights in ubuntu | 18:43 |
| nigelb | pleia2: rhonda too for the debian side | 18:43 |
| IdleOne | pleia2: yes I understand the need for having numbers and keeping stats it just seems like another tool for the haters to use against women. | 18:43 |
| nigelb | maco: hrm, yulia? (why doesn't that name ring a bell?), also add lucidfox | 18:44 |
| pleia2 | IdleOne: so we should keep hiding so we don't get trolled? | 18:44 |
| IdleOne | NO | 18:44 |
| pleia2 | IdleOne: the problem is "the haters", not us | 18:44 |
| IdleOne | I agree | 18:44 |
| maco | nigelb: she's never been in the channels afaik, but she's in ~ubuntu-dev | 18:45 |
| nigelb | IdleOne: its about objectively measuring progress | 18:45 |
| pleia2 | we need to track metrics, if someone uses them to hurt us it's not our fault, we're not going to hide or compromise what we need anymore | 18:45 |
| nigelb | maco: Ah. | 18:45 |
| nigelb | maco: wait, I didn't see you had already put lucidfox on the list :D | 18:46 |
| * MarkDude reminds that *haters* means you are suceeding | 18:46 | |
| * nigelb notes now we'll have skat and allison to the list. | 18:46 | |
| maco | nigelb: my list was people with upload rights | 18:47 |
| maco | working for canonical is not an automatic "in" for lp:~ubuntu-dev | 18:47 |
| nigelb | maco: I know. I'm presuming they might end up getting there. I maybe wrong though. | 18:47 |
| IdleOne | I think the stats are misleading anyway. I don't believe that greater numbers produce greater quality of work. Yes there are more male devs but does that mean they are putting out better packages then the women. I wish that a project could be judged by the product and not by who worked on the product. | 18:49 |
| IdleOne | if I am not making myself clear I apologize | 18:50 |
| nigelb | IdleOne: The Debian environment doesn't work that way per se. | 18:50 |
| vish | stats are nice to keep a momentum... [hmm, I maybe a bit unaware of this] but how exactly are we getting /more/ women to work on Ubuntu/Debian ? i.e. are we actively trying to bring more women in ? | 18:56 |
| maco | vish: theoretically, thats what UW does... | 18:58 |
| vish | maco: afaik, UW is about creating an environment for women to feel comfortable to work in, which has a chain effect and draws in more women, am I right? | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | vish: some of us do actively bring our friends here to participate, and advertise the project at conferences and events | 19:01 |
| vish | pleia2: ah right, i forgot about the conferences.. :) | 19:02 |
| czajkowski | aye there are very few women over here but all who meet me get told about this group | 19:02 |
| czajkowski | I also mention it at any talk I go to | 19:02 |
| czajkowski | but many dont want to join a women centric group, and I dont force it | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | IdleOne: you're welcome to believe that diversity does not improve quality of projects, but there are countless studies that prove your belief wrong | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | on the individual level it doesn't matter, of course | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | I care about increasing diversity to improve the project, and I like working with other women (and I like working with men too!) | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | being the only one feels lousy | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | or a "token" | 19:04 |
| IdleOne | pleia2: I don't think I am expressing myself properly. So I am going to be quiet and listen. | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | honestly I wish people cared less about my gender too, but they do care, and we're here to handle living in the real world :) | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | we'll get there eventually, and then we can get rid of -women projects! | 19:08 |
| czajkowski | IdleOne: it's not just in UW or Ubuntu, in every project, course/college/school I've always see stats on male/women ratios it's not a biggie | 19:09 |
| czajkowski | pleia2: +1 :D | 19:09 |
| akgraner | pleia2, speaking of Debian - I need some suggestions for cross-collaboration on the news front...any ideas | 19:13 |
| akgraner | I need to find some caffeine - my creative energy low light is on | 19:14 |
| pleia2 | akgraner: debian news is a tricky beast, I'm delighted that they started working on it again but their tools are still hard to use and the organization of the team is somewhat unclear, I think the first step would be defining a sharing medium (which hopefully is not a git repo :)) | 19:16 |
| czajkowski | heh | 19:17 |
| akgraner | pleia2, I agree since you know more about that side - what sharing medium would you suggest? I am sure and etherpad and/or googledocs would not go over well but what about a wiki page? | 19:19 |
| pleia2 | akgraner: a wiki page would probably be an acceptable compromise (I agree with your analysis of google docs/etherpad) | 19:19 |
| akgraner | a wiki should give diffs and who changed what etc | 19:20 |
| czajkowski | googledocs isn't very open.. | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | not at all | 19:20 |
| akgraner | czajkowski, I know :-) that's why I said it wouldn't fly | 19:20 |
| czajkowski | a wiki is a good way of things or etherpad but I know a lotta folks have issues depending onn what kinda version you have | 19:21 |
| czajkowski | akgraner: just saying :) | 19:21 |
| akgraner | :-) | 19:21 |
| * czajkowski hugs pleia2 , thank you | 22:13 | |
| * pleia2 hugs | 22:14 | |
| pleia2 | I'm excited! | 22:14 |
| pleia2 | it really is nice to see something come of that session | 22:15 |
| pleia2 | and banners, yaaaay, go very far to make us look more professional | 22:15 |
| czajkowski | yup | 22:15 |
| czajkowski | but it's taken a good few months to get that sorted | 22:15 |
| czajkowski | so I am pleased | 22:15 |
| czajkowski | lotta emailing and sourcing and planning | 22:15 |
| czajkowski | so glad I could get that mail/post out today | 22:15 |
| czajkowski | ordered new moo cards | 22:16 |
| pleia2 | :) | 22:16 |
| czajkowski | so handy to have saves me spelling my name out | 22:16 |
| czajkowski | here have a card | 22:16 |
| czajkowski | email is on it | 22:16 |
| czajkowski | ;) | 22:16 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 22:20 |
| maco | czajkowski: so thats tee see aych eh eye... | 22:31 |
| czajkowski | maco: I think I was the only 4 year old that could spell a russian and a polish name | 22:32 |
| maco | hehe | 22:32 |
| MichelleQ | czajkowski: Mike told me the other day he heard your last name pronounced for the first time, and that he never would have sorted out. I told him that we have the same problem only in reverse. | 22:35 |
| MichelleQ | One would be surprised at the number of ways in which hall can be misspelled. | 22:35 |
| czajkowski | MichelleQ: heheh so true | 22:35 |
| MichelleQ | My personal favorite... and I kid you not. I got a junk mail addressed "Dear Mrs. Hell" | 22:36 |
| czajkowski | heh I get Mr. Czajkowski | 22:37 |
| valorie | there are days when maybe that fits, MichelleQ? | 22:37 |
| czajkowski | Computer engineer | 22:37 |
| MichelleQ | valorie: most definitely | 22:37 |
| czajkowski | as dad is Mr Czajkowski Electronics enginner | 22:37 |
| valorie | IdleOne: reading up, it sounds as if you are saying "show me the code" | 22:38 |
| valorie | in nicer language | 22:38 |
| IdleOne | valorie: not sure what you mean by that | 22:38 |
| czajkowski | http://pix.ie/czajkowski/1873658/size/800 <------- Mothership | 22:39 |
| MichelleQ | czajkowski: I get the Mr. part all the time. Makes things really interesting when they confuse Mike's name and mine. | 22:39 |
| valorie | 13:28] <IdleOne> [13:38:07] is there a reason for even needing to have those stats? | 22:39 |
| valorie | [13:28] <IdleOne> [13:39:08] I mean for me it doesn't make a difference if the DD is male or female | 22:39 |
| czajkowski | aye I'd say that happens a lot | 22:39 |
| MichelleQ | she's beautiful, czajkowski, and I see a lot of you in her. | 22:39 |
| czajkowski | thanks | 22:39 |
| czajkowski | I was doing moo cards for her also | 22:39 |
| IdleOne | valorie: ok, how do you get "show me the code" from that? | 22:40 |
| * MichelleQ imagines Cuba Gooding Jr. saying "show me the code" | 22:40 | |
| valorie | well, from the code standpoint, of course it doesn't matter who submits | 22:41 |
| valorie | just the quality of the code | 22:41 |
| valorie | but from the point of those submitting, it makes a HUGE difference who they are working next to | 22:42 |
| valorie | the community IS important -- and a good community produces much better code | 22:42 |
| valorie | my point is that the stats are important not in themselves | 22:42 |
| valorie | but in showing increasing diversity over time | 22:43 |
| valorie | and if you don't bother measuring, you can't show progresss | 22:43 |
| valorie | ooo, didn't mean to hiss | 22:43 |
| IdleOne | :) I appreciate the input | 22:43 |
| IdleOne | didn't read it with a negative tone | 22:43 |
| valorie | :-) | 22:44 |
| czajkowski | valorie: it's not reading as a hiss | 22:44 |
| valorie | we're all on the same side here | 22:44 |
| valorie | progresss | 22:44 |
| valorie | lol | 22:44 |
| valorie | I slipped into parseltongue | 22:45 |
| czajkowski | slowly but surely | 22:45 |
| czajkowski | it;s also hard at times to work out tone over irc | 22:45 |
| czajkowski | drives me batty most days | 22:45 |
| czajkowski | :) | 22:45 |
| IdleOne | my point was that ultimately the code is what matters. If a project had 99% women and only 1% men I would look at it the same way. | 22:45 |
| valorie | and on that we disagree | 22:45 |
| IdleOne | What matters to me is that the project is successful, if it helps then it really does not matter to me the percentage of either gender. I agree that diversity makes for a better project (different points of view)....Again I feel I am putting my foot in my mouth and not explaining my idea clearly. | 22:48 |
| czajkowski | IdleOne: if you feel that way, can you try and explain yourself a bit better | 22:49 |
| czajkowski | I'm curious now as I like valorie disagree with you | 22:49 |
| valorie | well, I tend to look at it from not just the snapshot view | 22:49 |
| valorie | but as a point in history | 22:49 |
| valorie | if there isn't diversity, the project will die or move into force mode - i.e. church hierarchies, etc. | 22:50 |
| rww | If the code were all that mattered, I'd be part of the Debian project instead. | 22:50 |
| IdleOne | czajkowski: I don't know that I am able to at this point | 22:51 |
| IdleOne | I need to think more carefully about what it is I am trying to convey | 22:51 |
| valorie | so while it is OK for a project to be monolithic for awhile | 22:52 |
| valorie | eventually they have to open or die of groupthink | 22:52 |
| maco | MichelleQ: i have a cousin whose last name is kumpfmiller. she spelled this on the phone to yellowbook when buying an ad. got the bill addressed to... umm... s/mpf/nts/ | 22:56 |
| nhandler | Not sure if you all saw this, but there was a post about the Debian Women team trying to get more women involved (especially with packaging and becoming DDs). They are organizing some classroom sessions right now. | 22:57 |
| IdleOne | mn pt fs o the phone can sound very similar | 22:57 |
| IdleOne | s/o/on | 22:58 |
| rww | maco: oh lawd. | 22:58 |
| rww | I resort to "Wall, as in the thing that holds up roofs" a lot :( | 22:58 |
| IdleOne | but yeah unfortunate mispelling | 22:58 |
| MichelleQ | maco: OH dear. | 23:02 |
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