[09:23] <dholbach> good morning
[09:23] <godbyk> morning.
[13:00] <JanCBorchardt> hello everyone
[13:01] <wers> hello :)
[13:01] <godbyk> Hey, JanCBorchardt.
[13:01] <godbyk> I'm actually conscious for once.
[13:01] <JanCBorchardt> I’m glad I looked at the clock or I would have missed the meeting ;)
[13:02] <godbyk> Hey, mpt. Quick question before the meeting starts..
[13:03] <godbyk> What's the canonical spelling: MeMenu, Me Menu, Me menu, ...?
[13:03] <mpt> godbyk, there is none. :-)
[13:03] <godbyk> mpt: Hmm.. well that interferes with my need to be nit-picky and anal when I'm editing the Ubuntu manual. :)
[13:04] <mpt> Hi everyone
[13:04] <mpt> indicator-datetime tells me that it's Wednesday
[13:04] <mpt> but my watch assures me that it's Thursday
[13:05] <JanCBorchardt> godbyk, seems to be spelled Me Menu most of the time
[13:06] <godbyk> JanCBorchardt: I'm not picky about which spelling, I just need to settle on one for consistency's sake.
[13:06] <thorwil> godbyk: nit-picky and anal? good i don't have to create icons for that :)
[13:06] <JanCBorchardt> godbyk, that’s why I thought it might be best to use what’s used most :)
[13:06] <thorwil> mpt: i have to side with your watch
[13:07] <godbyk> thorwil: I'll have you create those for the cover of my autobiography someday. ;-)
[13:08] <wers> what do we have for today?
[13:09] <mpt> I'm sorry I don't have anything, it's been a mad rush for Maverick UI freeze today
[13:09] <wers> I'd like to discuss visual consistency and Tango compliance. I like the direction of Ambience-maverick-beta. it now feels Tango
[13:10] <mpt> interesting
[13:10] <wers> maybe, the next step is to make the icons more Tango-compliant
[13:10] <wers> they feel cartooney and alienated in the desktop
[13:10] <wers> you can tell which icons are Ubuntu-specific and not
[13:10] <mpt> The vibe I get from my graphic designer colleagues is that Tango is not a style worth complying with
[13:11]  * thorwil thinks of those would use "feels tango" as an insult
[13:11] <mpt> Personally I agree that some of the new Humanity icons look cartoony, but less so than Tango does.
[13:11] <wers> well, not anymore. "Mango" or the next generation of Tango feels much more fit today
[13:11] <mpt> I have not seen Mango
[13:11] <wers> either way, there has to be visual consistency in the platform
[13:12] <thorwil> wers: if you mention Tango, most people will recall sets that may be several years old
[13:12] <wers> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
[13:12] <JanCBorchardt> wers, do you have any screenshots? I have only seen the home folder house
[13:12] <JanCBorchardt> ah, there was an article somewhere right?
[13:13] <wers> JanCBorchardt, http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
[13:15] <JanCBorchardt> wers, I meant the humanity icons, found them at http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/humanity-icons-get-updated.html
[13:15] <wers> nice! thanks for pointing that out
[13:16] <mpt> The biggest sizes look great
[13:17] <thorwil> not what you will see most of the time
[13:19] <wers> doesn't mean the small ones don't look great as well
[13:22] <wers> It would be nice to have a consistent interface. that would make the desktop experience much smoother
[13:23] <thorwil> be careful with calls for consistency. i hope to never see something like the all orange emblems ubuntu had ... ;)
[13:23] <wers> if you can suggest something more worth following than Tango and Mango, it would be great if it's going to be a sustainable standard that won't make the desktop feel fragmented
[13:23] <thorwil> +again
[13:24] <wers> we don't need that sort of consistency
[13:24] <wers> as long as different themes follow common standards, it would be ok
[13:25] <wers> that would also make icons reusable in different themes
[13:26] <wers> I hope, we can define our next steps to resolve this
[13:27] <thorwil> i vaguely recall talk about yet another new icon theme for ubuntu, with a call to the community for ideas/mockups
[13:27] <wers> thorwil, what's goal for that?
[13:30] <vish> oh a humanity highlight!
[13:30] <vish> hey folks,
[13:30] <wers> hi vish
[13:30] <thorwil> wers: not sure. i don't find the source anymore, as it was mentioned on some blog post (by a member of the design team, though, afair)
[13:30]  * vish reads backlog..
[13:30] <JanCBorchardt> hey vish
[13:31] <Status0> hi there !
[13:31] <Status0> i am new. and i wonder how to be a member of ubuntu ?
[13:31] <vish> wers: whats the complaint about icons?  why do you think tango is suited for a toolbar? what is the justification for a toolbar icon to have a shadow?  does the toolbar have depth? ;)
[13:32] <Status0> the site is little confusing me...
[13:32] <Status0> i made a wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/status0
[13:32] <vish> !membership | Status0
[13:33] <vish> wers: Tango has its benefits, hence Humanity does use the tango guidelines,  but it is not a perfect guideline
[13:33] <wers> vish, haven't mentioned anything about toolbars. I'm just suggesting visual consistency in the Ubuntu desktop
[13:33] <vish> wers: could you be more specific?
[13:33] <Status0> ubottu: i been there  but i didn't understand where i give the application or how i get into a meeting list of candidates like on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[13:34] <wers> vish, icons that don't exist in Humanity icon theme fall back to themes that comply more to Tango. hence, the inconsistency
[13:34] <wers> unless Humanity's standards will be as widely followed as Tango
[13:34] <vish> wers: Humanity does not have icons! blasphemy! where did we miss it? ;p
[13:34] <wers> and Mango, eventually
[13:35] <vish> wers: Humanity covers more icons than any other icon set ;)
[13:35] <vish> .. even more than gnome
[13:36] <vish> wers: as i mention it earlier , Humanity does follow Tango guidelines [mostly]
[13:38] <vish> wers: the most common complaint might be that the search icon is not tango.. other than that almost everything is tango
[13:38] <thorwil> this leads back to the request of being more specific, then
[13:40] <wers> vish, for some reason, the folder icons feel different
[13:40] <wers> maybe, it's just me though
[13:41] <vish> wers: Folders are tango too :)
[13:41] <wers> I think, I got this idea also largely because of the search icon. I see it very often because of GNOME Do
[13:42] <vish> wers: yeah , the search is not tango, but doing it tango looked crappy and we liked the current one better ;p
[13:42] <vish> there is a bug about that too ;)
[13:44] <wers> vish, fair enough
[13:44] <wers> btw, is there a plan to follow Mango's directions?
[13:45] <vish> wers: currently there is not much interest in the team to actually work on Humanity, and we've been busy with other stuff too, hence there are less updates this cycle, also since there is a call for new icon set ideas , we probably wont be making any more changes but rather sit on it for a while ;p
[13:45] <Status0> hi, is anybody online ?
[13:46] <wers> vish, ooh. what's the goal of the call for new icon set ideas?
[13:46] <vish> Status0: try asking in #ubuntu-community-team  , this is a meeting channel
[13:46] <Status0> oh sorry, thanks
[13:47] <vish> wers: Otto mentioned he will make them public soon :)
[13:48] <wers> vish, in fairness, my view of Humanity icon theme is outdated. It's been a while since the last time I used this because of my consistency sentiment
[13:48] <JanCBorchardt> I have another topic: Yesterday I talked with one of the OpenUsability founders about future plans and directions for the project. What are the plans from Canonical’s side, especially with UX advocates being related.
[13:48] <vish> wers: yeah agreed, it is outdated since it follows Tango ;)
[13:49] <JanCBorchardt> that should have been a question mark ;)
[13:49] <wers> JanCBorchardt, interesting. mpt?
[13:50] <vish> wers: but your consistency sentiment is a misunderstanding about what Tango means ;)
[13:51] <mpt> wers, Otto is not here right now. I suspect that if I asked him, he *might* have heard of Tango, but probably not Mango.
[13:51] <mpt> oh, sorry, you had a different question. :-)
[13:52] <mpt> About OpenUsability, working with them is something that has been on Canonical Design's "that would be great if we had time for it" list
[13:52] <mpt> UX advocates seems like a natural fit for them.
[13:56] <JanCBorchardt> mpt, time is a problem for them as well. The Season of Usability was postponed to January. I’m starting to work with him next week and will try to get more going there.
[13:56] <mpt> ok
[23:56] <eguin> alguien que me ayude?
[23:56] <eguin> jajaj