[17:03] <falktx> i'm doing some experiments right now
[17:03] <falktx> what do you guys think about an ubuntustudio live dvd ?
[17:04] <falktx> (2.6.33-rt kernel)
[17:04] <holstein> falktx: i failed building a few
[17:05] <holstein> i have a friend in town here
[17:05] <falktx> holstein: i just make a testing kxstudio build now
[17:05] <holstein> he said he would help me
[17:05] <holstein> we just havent had time to get together
[17:05] <falktx> holstein: bad thing my laptop... cant boot USBs...!
[17:05] <falktx> i made a 64bit iso and now I can't test it
[17:06]  * falktx needs to buy a dvd-rw
[17:06] <holstein> yeah
[17:06] <holstein> i got a light-scribe external one
[17:06] <holstein> handy
[17:13] <holstein> hey guys
[17:13] <holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tasksel/+bug/562706
[17:14] <holstein> this *has* been fixed, correct?
[17:14] <holstein> i'll mark it so...
[17:14] <persia> has it?
[17:16]  * persia knows GrueMaster is currently around, so may be able to replicate on whatever hardware was used, or share more information.
[17:17] <holstein> persia: i was assuming this it the installer bug
[17:17] <holstein> if you select a certain pacakge the installer fails
[17:17] <holstein> i bet i can find that one
[17:17] <holstein> and mark it a duplicate
[17:17] <holstein> at least
[17:18] <persia> Oh, maybe.  But the installer team hates it when folks merge bugs, because lots of times very similar things are different bugs (there are a lot of little sneaky bugs in the installer)
[17:19] <holstein> OK
[17:19] <holstein> i'll just email the list with a link
[17:19] <holstein> and let the chips fall where they may
[17:19] <persia> I'd just catch GrueMaster in #ubuntu-bugs, and ask if he can still replicate it, and close it if he can't.
[17:22] <holstein> hell
[17:22] <holstein> i can replicate it
[17:22] <holstein> i havent chosen any of those packages at install in years ;)
[17:23] <persia> So the default tasks for studio break?  We probably ought change the task to not include them.
[17:24] <holstein> sure
[17:24] <holstein> whatever it takes
[17:24] <holstein> last time i brought it up in here
[17:24] <holstein> it seemed like a well known issue
[17:24] <holstein> and a fix was in place for maverick
[17:24] <persia> Do the packages only not install in tasksel, or do they also not install with apt-get install?
[17:24] <persia> Well, maverick is what needs testing now.
[17:24] <holstein> after the install of the OS
[17:25] <holstein> everything seems fine
[17:25] <holstein> i did test it with an early maverick
[17:25] <holstein> and it was still doing it
[17:25] <holstein> but since then, i had mentioned it in here
[17:25] <persia> Oh, if it was broken, and now works, then it's probably fixed.
[17:26]  * persia apologises for the noise, and shuts up until common understandings are absorbed through idling a bit more
[17:27] <holstein> persia: nah
[17:28] <holstein> im glad your here :)
[17:28] <holstein> i havent had a successful test of it functioning as it should
[17:28] <holstein> yet
[17:28] <holstein> so its really more of a question
[17:28] <holstein> if its fixed in maverick
[17:28] <holstein> we can mark that bug accordingly though
[17:29] <falktx> last time I tried, the ubuntustudio installer complained about not finding the kernel
[17:29] <persia> Really?  That shouldn't happen.
[17:30] <falktx> that was some weeks ago though, in virtualbox
[17:31] <persia> even so, but sometimes the dailies are unstable.
[17:32] <holstein> falktx: maverick?
[17:32] <holstein> OH yeah
[17:32] <holstein> daily issue probably
[17:32] <holstein> persia: i think we should have a live disc
[17:32] <holstein> i went on about it in bugs just now ;)
[17:33] <persia> I saw.
[17:33] <persia> The fear has always been that the latency is so bad that audio folk will say US isn't any good.
[17:33] <persia> But talk to ScottL
[17:34] <holstein> did you ever check out the old dyne-bolic?
[17:34] <persia> Yep.
[17:34] <holstein> i was always surprised at the performance from it running live
[17:35] <holstein> i know we arent going to get that kind of performance
[17:36] <persia> Certainly not.  they stripped that down quite a bit to achieve that, and the software was all less bloated back then.
[17:40] <falktx> holstein: yes
[17:41] <holstein> hggdh: hey
[17:41] <hggdh> cheers
[17:42] <falktx> we could have a dialog pop-ing up in the live dvd, saying like: "this will get slow, install to get full-speed"
[17:47] <holstein> is there a dev mailing list?
[17:48] <persia> Yep.
[17:48]  * holstein found it
[17:49] <persia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-Studio-devel
[19:10] <troy_s> crimsun_: If you are around, I'd love to hear your thoughts on ratelimit.c supressed events and the correlation with a stuttery laggy system during those log postings.
[19:12] <troy_s> crimsun_: I don't think it is a culprit (although likely gets blamed) but certainly correlates with log outputs on supressed events... perhaps because of some other lag up?
[19:42] <scott-work> hi holstein , persia , troy_s  :)
[19:43] <holstein> scott-work: :)
[19:45] <troy_s> scott-work: Greets. How goes it.
[19:46] <scott-work> troy_s: 'tis okay, but work is making me slightly insane :/   grrrrrrrr
[19:47] <troy_s> scott-work: I believe that is the second Universal Truth(TM). It is slightly less well-known than it's brother... ;)
[19:48] <scott-work> troy_s:  i'm beginning to wonder if all the improvements we make at work to help people isn't causing them to be lazy and stupid
[19:48]  * scott-work realizes that is a slightly pessimestic viewpoint
[19:52] <troy_s> scott-work: Is it lazy or busy? Most people are busy trying to do other things.
[19:53] <troy_s> (Which has a side tangent about bug reporting in Libre. It's goofy to assume that someone is going to put down _work_ and set aside _what they are doing_ to report a bug. Goofy. Stupid. Ridiculous. It is a problem that needs a well designed solution.)
[20:07] <scott-work> troy_s:  the more we make standardized drawings and designs the more simply studid and inattentive mistakes seemed to be made
[20:08] <scott-work> interestingly we have a bug report system also called Action Items
[20:08] <scott-work> since i'm in charge of the detailing department (and to a lesser degree the engineering department as a whole) I get to answer these
[20:08] <troy_s> scott-work: Personally "Bug Report Systems" should be an anachronism.
[20:09] <scott-work> LOL  i mispelled stupid earlier....is that meta-stupidity?
[20:09] <troy_s> Hyperreality perhaps.
[20:27] <scott-work> persia: as far as the live disc, i talked to luke about it as well, he seemed to think it would present some obstacles from a ISO building aspect
[20:27] <scott-work> not that it couldn't be done but that it might be putting additional work load on other peoples
[20:28] <scott-work> falktx builds his images himself, possibly with remastersys or something similar i believe
[20:28] <scott-work> holstein might be in a better position to explain how falktx builds his ISOs though than i
[20:31] <holstein> im taking it on as a learing project
[20:31] <holstein> so theres going to be an ubuntustudio live CD
[20:31] <holstein> and i'll put it up somewhere
[20:32] <holstein> and i'll be able to link to it in the support channel
[20:32] <holstein> scott-work: if you dont want to have it officially integrated, thats cool
[20:32] <holstein> i just know there is a need for it where i am
[20:32] <holstein> in the irc channel
[20:33] <holstein> so i dont have to say 'just blow out a partition, install, and some back in a couple hours, and we'll see if that device works for you'
[20:33] <holstein> OR suggest other live distros
[20:34] <scott-work> holstein:  i'm not really terribly adverse to it as i've mentioned before...i think it's a great PR aspect
[20:34] <holstein> cool
[20:34] <holstein> i want to know how to make iso's anyways
[20:34] <scott-work> but i'd rather focus first on tightening up the distro first
[20:34] <scott-work> as i mentioned to you before as well ;)
[20:34] <holstein> yeah
[20:34] <holstein> then you guys can do your thing
[20:35] <holstein> and the live disc is a community project
[20:37] <holstein> i totally dont want to pull any resources away to make it happen
[20:52] <scott-work> that would be sweet actually
[21:30] <scott-work> abogani: are you around?
[21:53] <persia> scott-work, Building a LiveCD only requires additional work from other folks if we don't have someone doing it.  Needs work in casper, ubiquity, livecd-rootfs, ubuntu-cdimage.  At least casper and ubiquity are fairly fast-moving targets: I know they consume about 50% of one of the Kubuntu folk.
[21:53] <persia> If there's a volunteer who's sufficiently dedicated, that becomes manageable.
[21:54] <persia> Oh, also requires slightly more than twice as much work from the testers.
[21:55] <scott-work> persia: and luke also mentioned that it would requires more time and load on the ISO building machines, i don't have a framework to quantify this though
[21:56] <persia> It does: and nobody except the cdimage folk can quantify that.  That said, we can always ask about space there: if we're serving a sufficient number of users, there may be space.
[22:10] <troy_s> persia: Some issues there - not the least of which is quantifying "sufficient number". Posting on touch points (Forums, UbuntuStudio.org, etc.) would probably be a good bit of research. Of course, people that answer polls tend to be of archetypes that answer polls so your data is biased out of the gate. Alas, that's the realm of sociologists.
[22:11] <persia> Since there are know sociologists among the cdimage folk, it tends to be based on having a sufficient subset of user who volunteer to take care of testing agressively :)
[22:29]  * scott-work is going home...yay!
[22:48] <troy_s> persia: Not so much the testing, but whether there are numbers to support it. I sincerely doubt, given the current state of uS, that there are.
[22:49] <troy_s> persia: I'd be most interested in some actual quantifiable bits of data regarding how many installs there are at the moment anyways. And within that, how many are just hobby installations and how many are people trying to create something.
[22:50] <troy_s> persia: As there is a huge gap there. If I had to wager 99% of most installations of _Desktop Linux_ are hobby / in-passing / non primary. 
[22:50] <troy_s> (Or at least a ridiculously high value there)
[22:51] <persia> I'd agree that 99% of folks installing fall into that category, but I know folks that do >5000 installs daily, and I know that's not for hobby purposes.
[22:52] <persia> So I have no idea of the percentage in terms of number of users.
[22:52] <persia> Err, number of installs.
[23:18] <holstein> persia: im into learning and being that person
[23:19] <persia> OK.  You probably want to idle in #ubuntu-install, and start investigating the casper and ubiquity codebases.
[23:19] <persia> There should be a process to request stuff sanely by the time you get comfortable there.
[23:20] <persia> Given beta freeze, it's unlikely anything official can happen before natty opens, but you can at least start playing around with the code, and seeing how it works.
[23:21] <holstein> persia: i just want to do one for the LTS really
[23:21] <holstein> but id like to learn
[23:21] <persia> No chance of that, officially.
[23:22] <holstein> true
[23:22] <persia> But if you get one working in natty, you can then refine it so it's not unpleasant to use for natty+1, and probably have something in good shape for the next LTS.
[23:22] <holstein> that works
[23:22] <holstein> is it #ubuntu-install?
[23:24] <holstein> persia: i'll find it
[23:24]  * holstein gotta go to dinner
[23:24] <holstein> thanks
[23:24] <persia> #ubuntu-inseraller
[23:25] <persia> Err, #ubuntu-installer
[23:25] <persia> Sorry
[23:25] <holstein> persia: AH
[23:25] <holstein> im there now
[23:25] <persia> Yeah.  Time for food :)