/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/30/#ubuntu-us-mn.txt

Wally_PhoneHello21:44
TakyojiHello21:44
Wally_PhoneI'm torn. I'm thinking of installing arch linux over ubuntu.21:46
Wally_PhoneI've touted with linux for about 5 months now.21:46
Wally_PhoneHow bad is it to configure?21:47
Obsidian1723Ever compiled software from source?21:52
Obsidian1723It's not Gentoo, but Arch has a bigger geek-learning-curve than Ubuntu. If you want super easy: Linux Mint.21:53
Obsidian1723If you want super hard: SlackWare, Gentoo, LFS21:53
Wally_PhoneI want to learn more. And want to try compiling from source21:59
Wally_PhoneI started with mint21:59
Wally_PhoneThen ubuntu21:59
Obsidian1723ok, well, next I would go Debian21:59
Obsidian1723That wont be such a reach...21:59
Wally_PhoneDebian is basically ubuntu source, correct?22:00
kermitWally_Phone: ubuntu makes lots of modifications, but otherwise yes22:01
Wally_PhoneI would live22:01
Wally_PhoneI would like to start as clean as possible and build from there.22:02
Wally_PhoneI will pull a live cd of debian then.22:03
kermitWally_Phone: thats the philosophy of slackware22:03
Wally_PhoneOk not to sound like a noob but22:05
Wally_PhoneCompiling software is basically apt get install xyz program22:06
Wally_PhoneRight? To build your system22:06
kermitWally_Phone: thats just installing a precompiled version22:08
kermitWally_Phone: which is the easiest though22:09
Wally_PhoneSource is.tar files then?22:09
WallyI got some more reading to do then guys.  Thanks for the little bit of wisdom.  I may be back for more advice22:14
Obsidian1723hmmm22:18
Obsidian1723compileing software is ungzing it, untaring it, doing ./configure then a makeinstall22:19
Obsidian1723You also need to make sure all dependacies are met. With Ubuntu or Red Hat or any distro that uses a repository, ala sudo apt-get install or yum, you download a deb / rpm file which does all of the work for you.22:19
Obsidian1723Also, upgrading a source-compiled-installed software program is trickier than it is by using a repository system as mentioned above.22:20
Obsidian1723and when you compile, it's for that particular PC.22:21
Obsidian1723There are advantages and disadvantages to both weays22:21
Obsidian1723ways22:21
WallyThanks Obsidian172322:21
Obsidian1723no problem.22:21
WallyI may still be a litlle green for all that22:21
Obsidian1723yeah, thats why I was thinking Debian. ease into it.22:21
WallyI may be even a little green for debian but want to learn22:22
WallyI tend to learn better by trying and some reading22:22
Wallyso thank you for the input22:22
WallyIm dl'ing debian now22:22
Obsidian1723I mean Gentoo and that is great because you compile it from source so its not just optimized and you not only get EXACTLY (and only) what you want, but also its optimized fopr that particular PC22:22
Wallyunderstand22:23
Obsidian1723It's all the same really, the differences are mainly philosophical.22:23
WallyI just want a solid stable daily driver that can surf, music, movies, tinker, etc22:23
Obsidian1723For example, Debian does not update very often, really focuses on stability, free software22:23
WallySo whatever programs work on ubuntu will work on debian, correct?22:24
Obsidian1723Then I highly recommend Debian for stabiliity, but if you want newer software, something still stable and much easier to use, Linux Mint.22:24
WallyLike I need to edit a picture slide show.22:24
Obsidian1723Well, not really, no.22:24
Obsidian1723\Debian is leaner. See there are 3 repos from which debian is created.22:24
Obsidian1723debian-unstable22:24
Obsidian1723debian-testing'22:24
Obsidian1723and debian-stable22:25
Obsidian1723Ubuntu takes code from debian-testing for it's LTS releases and from debian-unstable for it's non-LTS releases..in both cases, Canonical adds their own code to it.22:25
Wallyok22:26
Obsidian1723MOST of the time the same stuff works in both Debian and Ubuntu, but not always. take apt-listbugs for example, great in Debian, pointless in Ubuntu.22:26
Wallyso let say I need a web browser22:26
Wallydebian won't come with one like ubuntu does?22:26
WallyAnd I can just aptget install firefox22:27
Obsidian1723Debian is what Ubuntu is based off of. It's a fork of Debian. Kubuntu (Ubuntu with KDE vs Gnome), Xubuntu (lightweight Ubuntu with XFCE) and Linux Mint (GNOME or KDE) are all based off of Ubuntu.22:27
Wallymore or less22:27
Obsidian1723Debian comes with a browser, Firefox, albiet an older version.22:27
Wallyok22:27
Wallysorry for sounding so noob22:28
Obsidian1723You can install Firefox, yes, but again, Debian uses much older versions because their focus is stability.22:28
Obsidian1723No, its ok man. really.22:28
Wallyok i get it22:28
Wallybut if i choose I can upgrade FF22:28
Obsidian1723If you want a good visual of Linux, Google "Linux Time Line"22:28
Obsidian1723\It shows the whole geneology tree of Linux.22:28
Obsidian1723You can, yes, but then that sort of defeats the purpose of Debian, which goes for ultra stability.22:29
Obsidian1723I really think Linux Mint is your better route for a desktop.22:29
Obsidian1723Its not as geeky as Ubuntu.22:29
Obsidian1723or Debian22:29
Obsidian1723It just works.22:29
Obsidian1723I personally run a customized version of Ubuntu.22:29
WallyI know mint is nice22:30
WallyIt just works22:30
WallyWhen I first loaded it it worked out of the box22:30
Wallykinda nice22:30
Wallythen i switched to ubuntu 10 when it came out22:30
Wallyand well i never got it 100% where I wanted, but it was close22:31
Obsidian1723http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/rons-ubuntu-v13-autoinstall.iso <-- thats mine. If youy install it, make sure you have high speed Internet connected to the PC.22:31
Wallystiill had a few issues22:31
Wallylike file sharing with windows,22:31
Obsidian1723It installs 10.04.1LTS and some customizations. Sets up a default user named: administrator with the default password of: password22:31
Wallyok22:32
WallyIm dl'ling it22:32
Obsidian1723Yeah, I fixed that in my distro.  some stuff installed and confiogured for one, ntfs-3g which allows Linux to write (not just read) NTFS drives.You basically need to have22:32
Wallyhmm.  I think  maybe I should just try your version22:33
Obsidian1723Also, Samba as well. my distro is focused on the network / os / security / linux geek who likes Ubuntu. It has media support though for vides, mp-3 etc22:33
Wallyotherwise i will be back asking for more help22:33
Obsidian1723It has some nice add ons for administration to22:33
Wallycool22:33
Wallyso you basically created what I was more or less after22:34
Obsidian1723yuip22:34
Wallyubuntu with all the mint support and no green. lol22:34
Obsidian1723yeah22:34
Wallywell I am dl'ling it now and will fire up a live usb and give it a whirl.22:35
Obsidian1723What the iso does is install Ubuntu with that default user, a lot of stuff you are normally asked is answered by default (I used a kickstart script to do this) and then it goes out, downloads a bash script and runs it, which does the rest.22:35
Obsidian1723You wont see the custom stuff until you install it. When you run the ISO, it autoinstalls.22:35
WallyHey I really appreciate you sharing that22:35
WallySo should I still make a live usb?22:35
Obsidian1723No problem.. remember, it auto installs...22:36
Wallyyep22:36
Wallyok i got one problem with that22:36
Obsidian1723If your BIOS supports it, sure.. big thing is, remember the default username and password and also to b e connected to the Internet so the bash script is downloaded and runs22:36
WallyYes I can boot from usb.22:37
Wallyi got a ?? tho.  1 sec22:37
WallyDoes it install grub, grub2?22:37
Obsidian1723What I USED to do is make an image of everything via Remastersys, which you can run as a live dvd or install from, but this way, I need not change the ISO. If I want to add/remove applications for the next install of the ISO, I need only change the bash script.22:37
Obsidian1723grub2 and ext422:38
Obsidian1723This way someone only need download 6xx meg file vs 2.2gb one.22:38
WallyIs this a public bash script or your personal one?22:38
Obsidian1723My personal.22:38
Wallyok22:38
Obsidian1723I have a non-kickstarted version of it that you can download and use on ANY Ubuntu system22:39
Wallyso a couple more quick ??'s22:39
Obsidian1723Just need to chmod +x name22:39
WallyI am doidn a dual boot22:39
Obsidian1723ah yeah that will eip[e it out22:39
Obsidian1723You may be better off with just the bash script in your case.22:40
Obsidian1723http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/install-script.sh22:40
Obsidian1723thats the same version as the kickstarted version minus the sudo command in each line.22:40
Obsidian1723Just download that, chmod +x install-script.sh and then sudo ./install-script.sh22:40
Obsidian1723You can open it in gedit to sdee what all its doing before you run it if you want.22:41
Wallycool.  do that after I install ubuntu22:41
WallySo I can just install 10.04.1 that I already have22:41
Wallyand don22:41
Obsidian1723Well, if you run the ISO, it will do reformat the PC, install Ubuntu and then download the kickstarted version of that bash script.22:41
Wallylol22:42
Wallyya don't want that22:42
Obsidian1723It would wipe out your files and dual boiot. If you want to just keep yve http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/install-script.shour existing situation, then just run this script instead as noted abo22:42
WallyI need win for the wife still22:42
Obsidian1723yeah jsut run this as said above. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/install-script.sh22:42
Obsidian1723that is better for your needs. do download the ISO though for use on another system though.22:43
Wallyyep I got it22:43
Obsidian1723Coools22:43
WallyI certaintly will22:43
Obsidian1723It will probably take a couple hours to do its work.22:43
Wallythe script?22:43
Obsidian1723Yeah22:43
Wallyok22:43
Obsidian1723It addss repos, downloads some files, installs applications, sets up iptables22:43
Obsidian1723Open it in gedit, just dont make any changes to it, and you'll see22:44
WallyCool22:44
Wallyhttp://techtricks.co.in/miscellaneous/uncategorized/booting-ubuntu910-from-media-direct-and-windows-7-fresh-dual-boot-xps133022:44
Obsidian1723myh email is in there too22:44
Wallythat is my dual boot setup22:44
Wallyyes and I got it from your pm.  Thank you for that22:44
WallyIt's nice having dual power buttons22:45
Wallyso the wife don't get confused22:45
Obsidian1723yeah I hear ya...22:45
Obsidian1723remember if you ever go to reinstall Windows, the NTLDR (NT Loader) overwrites grub...22:46
Obsidian1723You runing XP?22:46
Wallywin 722:46
Obsidian172364 bit?22:46
Wallyi am installing grub only on my linux partition22:46
Obsidian1723ah ok22:47
Obsidian172332 bit linux?>22:47
Wallyso windows shouldnt over write22:47
Obsidian1723true that.22:47
Wallyi am on 32 bit win22:47
Obsidian1723cool. 32 nix too?22:47
Obsidian1723Avoid 64 bit Linux for now....22:47
Wallyi have 64 right now22:47
Wallybut am going back to 3222:47
Obsidian1723Flash is a biatch in that22:47
Obsidian1723Gotcha22:47
Wallyin 32?22:48
Obsidian1723No, Flashy in 6422:48
Obsidian1723thats the biatch22:48
Wallyonly got 322:49
Wallyso just didn't seem to have the hp needed.22:49
Wallybut 32 flies22:49
Wallyand a old dual core proc.22:49
Wally64 just seems to slow on my machine.  need another gb of ram22:49
Obsidian1723oh btw, that script installs some nice docs btw22:49
Wallysweet!22:49
Obsidian1723yeah22:49
Obsidian1723The docus go injto the DOcuments folder22:49
Obsidian1723Documents folder22:49
WallyDo you run both? or strictly linux?22:49
Obsidian1723Strictly Linux. Been at computers since 1978, ran every version of Windows, very familliar iwth it, but I only run Linux now.22:50
Obsidian1723My wife has 64 bit Windows 722:50
Obsidian1723ck i nthe 80s and 90s too.I even ran Mac Classic OS ba22:50
Wallynice22:50
Obsidian1723I'm 43, started at age 1222:51
Wallyyea wife is not too comp lit.  So it just needs to work.  and she wont look at linux22:51
Wallyyou got few on me then.22:51
Obsidian1723thats too bad....22:51
WallyIts fine.22:51
Obsidian1723She should bem ore open22:51
Obsidian1723yeah I hear ya. if it worksfor her and shes not getting infected left and right etc22:51
WallyIm gonna get her a netbook and she can have all the fun in the world22:51
Obsidian1723heheh22:52
Wallythen I will proabbly ditch win22:52
Obsidian17237 is better than XP which isnt supported anymore.22:52
Wallyexcept for work.  ugh22:52
Obsidian1723yeah22:52
Wallyagreed22:52
Wally7 is nice22:52
Obsidian1723Ubuntu Netbook Remix is nice22:52
Obsidian1723I like 7 Profressional a lot.22:52
Obsidian17237 still has some issues....22:52
Wallyreally made some leaps and bounds as far as end user is concerned22:53
Wallyagreed22:53
WallyI got 7 ulit22:53
Obsidian1723Like 3rd party applications that install in Program FIles vs Program Files (x86)22:53
Obsidian1723yeah22:53
Wallydo you put your home on a seperate partition?22:53
Wally /home*22:53
Obsidian1723No... I wanted to, but just the one HDD in it.22:53
Obsidian1723I want to build a box with a RAID 0+1 on it.22:54
Wallyuse swap?22:54
Obsidian1723Nope22:54
Wallyneeded? In your opinion?22:54
Obsidian1723I have 3GB of RAM on it at the desktop PC and 512MB on the lappy I'm on now, no swap in either case.22:54
Obsidian1723Well, depends22:54
Wallycool22:54
WallyI got 3 gb on my lappy22:55
Wallyand should be fine with out it22:55
Obsidian1723Yeah, but its nice to be able to unmount /home for clean installs22:55
Wallyagree22:56
Obsidian1723I have everything on one partition for my desktop, but on a server situation, I'd have /home on its own drive/partition..22:56
Wallybut I hope to stick on ubuntu for a while and not distro hope22:56
Obsidian1723Yeah22:56
Wallyhop*22:56
Obsidian1723'If you do a lot of servers, setup a special logs server and point /var on all servers to it.22:56
WallyI can't set up a server.22:57
Obsidian1723So a dedicated PC that hosts all /var/log files from al lservers22:57
WallyI am just a home comp user.22:57
Obsidian1723I hear ya22:57
Obsidian1723Not needed in yer case22:57
WallyI wish I knew22:57
WallyIn time22:57
Obsidian1723Well, all depends on what ya need22:57
Wallyso much to learn22:57
Obsidian1723You know, yo ucan easily setup one.22:57
Wallywell when we move22:57
WallyI am planning on having a central server with all my video/audio22:58
Obsidian1723If you pull up a terminal and type: tasksel you can setup options22:58
Wallyso i can access it from anywhere in house and hopefully out of house22:58
Obsidian1723If you are looking at a media server, Mythbuntu works great.22:58
Obsidian1723It's MythTV + Ubuntu22:58
Wallyya that would be where I will head when I get a better set up for that.22:59
Obsidian1723I just built a house, including a server room in it.22:59
Obsidian1723wired the house with CAT5e22:59
Wallythats wat I wanna do.22:59
Wallyfully integrated house22:59
Obsidian1723My roputer is a PC with 2 NICs and pfSense on it.22:59
Wallyand be able to access it remote22:59
Obsidian1723Are you in MN?22:59
Wallyya23:00
Obsidian1723cities?23:00
Wallyyep  EP.23:00
Obsidian1723Right on man.;...23:00
Obsidian1723I'm south metro.23:00
Wallynice.23:00
Obsidian1723What do ya do for work?23:00
Wallyinstall Fire Alarms23:01
Obsidian1723cool gig....23:01
Obsidian1723tghat's different23:01
Wallylow voltage electric23:01
Wallyya its a good gig23:01
Obsidian1723right on.. yeah CAT5e is that, low voltage23:01
Wallyyep23:01
Wallywe do some network stuff23:01
Obsidian1723sweet... so yer familliar with it/.23:02
Wallybut I don't know it23:02
Wallyfamiliar yes23:02
Obsidian1723Well, there's lots of stuff to learn it...23:02
Wallybut am by no means an expert23:02
Obsidian1723bah, me either.23:02
Wallyi can pull it and terminate it23:02
Obsidian1723I STILL learn every day. We all do, even the geekiest geek.23:02
Wallyagree23:03
Wallylearn something new always23:03
Obsidian1723right on...23:03
Obsidian1723I was on charter, moved into the new house, now on Comcast, love their netework man. 2 up and 12 down for me right now.23:03
Wallywell I got my iso made and al the files dl'd23:03
Obsidian1723cools23:03
WallyYes crapcast is speedy.23:04
Obsidian1723yeah it is...23:04
Obsidian1723I have a cisco switch and that pfSense box, runs nicely.23:04
Wallynice23:04
Wallycan you access remote?23:04
Obsidian1723The router, switch and all PCs, yes23:04
Wallylike vpn?23:04
Obsidian1723Yeah23:04
Wallysweet23:04
Wallyso you could watch a movie at a hotel per say?23:05
Obsidian1723Ahhhhhhh hmmm no.23:05
Obsidian1723I could remote into my desktop and watch it, sure. from there, but that'd be slow.23:05
Wallyah23:06
Wallycomcast limitation23:06
Obsidian1723Really you want to push the streaming data, and with Comcast, you have that 250GB a month limit.23:06
Obsidian1723Dont want to go over that at all.23:06
Wallygotcha23:06
Wallydoes it sayt on your billl what you use?23:06
Obsidian1723No. You can monitor how much youve used by logging into Comcast.com23:07
Obsidian1723there is a page on there23:07
Wallycool23:07
Wallyya I always wondered23:07
Obsidian1723the residental people have a 250GB a month limit from the 1st to the last day of it.23:07
WallyI never new that23:07
WallyI thought it was unlimited23:07
Obsidian1723nope. first time you exceed they warn you, the 2nd time, no Internet for 12 months.23:08
WallyWOW23:09
Wallyever exceded it?23:09
Obsidian1723yuppers23:09
Obsidian1723Nooooooooooooo23:09
Wallycloser?23:09
Obsidian1723btw, if you are ever interested, I have some gear for sale cheap, for when you do your own network deal.23:10
Obsidian1723Nah, I JUST got on Comcast, so like 11% usage so far last month, thatsw it. I really watch it closely.23:10
WallyI will certaintly let you know23:11
Obsidian1723cools.23:11
WallyYa I am logging on know to see23:12
Obsidian1723Right on.23:12
Obsidian1723Yeah, I have a cisco router 2507 and a Cisco 1900-24 (24 port) switch for sale.23:12
Wallycools23:13
Obsidian1723They both have a 10Mbps limit on them, so if your Internet is faster than that, not really good for that, but as far as a couple of peices for say an interneral network or a development/learning network, good for that.23:13
WallyYa i got the same 12 - 223:14
Obsidian1723I hacked them and set them back to factory default.23:14
Wallybut it would be good to tinker with23:14
Obsidian1723yeah, like I said, if yer ever interested. dirt cheap for them.23:14
Obsidian1723You'd need a console cable to connect to them.23:14
Obsidian1723locally I mean23:14
Wallyi will surely let you know.  I need to get a place where I can use them23:15
Obsidian1723I hear yah23:15
WallyThis townhome is not wired for crap.23:15
Wallyflat 4 wire don't carry data well.23:15
Obsidian1723ugh, yeah they never are here. In the valley out in Cali they are. pople have full T-1 lines to their house and then you can rent the house out with it installed, whole thing is CAT5, fiber, etc, but that's Silicon Valley for ya.23:16
Obsidian1723No23:16
Obsidian1723You just need CAT5e really23:16
Wallyya23:16
Obsidian1723I know 6a is out, but really.... if yer pushing over 1Gbps LAN-side.... DAYMN mna.23:16
WallyMinnesota is a little behind23:16
Obsidian1723yeah it is.23:16
Wallyya 6 is over kill for now23:16
Wallyas for residential23:17
Wallybut my house will have 623:17
WallyI get cheap/free cable23:17
Obsidian1723In my area, Comcast has some people with Fiber and 40Mbps downloads.23:17
Obsidian1723Do ya? right on23:17
Wallydamn23:17
Wallyyea23:17
Obsidian1723F it. I want an OC-768 with 40Gbps23:17
Wallywe have tons of partial baoxes and spools23:18
Wallythat would be sick23:18
Obsidian1723Hmmmmmmmmmm really? Right on...23:18
Obsidian1723Wanna trade?23:18
Wallywe can maybe work something out.23:18
WallyIm not on a data job right know, but should be inthe near future.23:19
Obsidian1723I'll trade for some CAT5e23:19
Obsidian1723cool. I need to do some custom cables23:19
WallyI will keep it in mind23:19
Wallyhow long?23:19
Obsidian1723Right on.23:19
Obsidian1723Hmm probably loike 10 of them about 6 geet perhaps each23:19
Obsidian172310 of them at 6 feet23:19
Obsidian1723tough 15 would be nicer, for spares23:20
WallyIll snag some.  That is not problem23:20
Obsidian1723cools.23:20
WallyIll dig around23:20
Wallywell I am out23:20
Wallygonna go install23:20
Obsidian1723you have my email If you email me, I can send ya some more docs too that ya may like.23:20
Obsidian1723cools23:20
Wallysweet23:20
WallyIlll hit ya up later23:21
Obsidian1723Nice meeting ya. Is Wally your real name?23:21
Obsidian1723Right on.23:21
Wallynice meeting ya too and thanks for the help23:21
Wallyno its a nick23:21
Obsidian1723Anytime.23:21
Obsidian1723Ron here23:21
WallyJason23:21
Obsidian1723Ill look for your email23:21
Wallysweet23:21
Obsidian1723Ah cools23:21
Wallylater23:21
Obsidian1723later man23:21

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