[07:45] <thorwil> good morning!
[07:45] <nisshh> hey thorwil :)
[07:46]  * thorwil starts to work on the quickshot logo
[10:10] <godbyk> Mmm.. strawberries are delicious.
[10:10] <godbyk> And I have two pounds of 'em.. all to myself!
[10:11] <humphreybc> lol
[10:11] <humphreybc> what's up?
[10:12] <godbyk> Not much.
[10:14] <humphreybc> not much is good
[10:14] <godbyk> I should amend that: not much *at the moment*.. other than eating strawberries and watching hulu. :)
[10:27] <vish> hehe, for a sec i thought thorwil was gonna choke someone when they mentioned using a meerkat ;p
[10:28] <thorwil> vish: how would you know i didn't? ;)
[10:28] <vish> thorwil: I dint say i know you dint.. i thought you would ;p
[10:29] <godbyk> vish: lol.
[10:29] <godbyk> thorwil: true.. they haven't replied on that thread since... Hmm...
[10:32] <thorwil> vish: actually, the meerkat was nothing compared to turning "at least 3" into a definitive change after 3
[10:34] <godbyk> yeah.. if I remember correctly, the 'at least three' meant that we'd stick with the same design for the whole set from LTS until the next. (changing at each LTS)
[10:34] <humphreybc> ?
[10:35] <vish> thorwil: well, i never knew when the plan was to have a new cover every release..  when i had done the alpha version, the plan was to just change the color at the tip alone every release.. and i thought that a single cover of sometime was the basis for rejecting wolter's design..  the sometime being for every LTS
[10:35] <thorwil> godbyk: heh, it was really just 3 in the sense of one more than a pair. you know the way you would put at least 3 elements into an icon, if you mean a group
[10:36] <vish> apart from thorwil's fear of the lynx ;p
[10:36] <godbyk> thorwil: ah, okay.
[10:36] <godbyk> vish: heh.. yeah. no one wanted to take on the task of drawing the new mascots each time.
[10:37] <vish> godbyk: if we some how convinced thorwil to use a meerkat .. pretty sure wolter will get pissed ;p
[10:37] <thorwil> godbyk: not just that. lynx would have been cool, though not hitting the desired posture/tone. meerkats would be ok. but a narwhal? catastrophe
[10:37] <godbyk> vish: ha! so true.
[10:38] <godbyk> thorwil: Hey, now. Don't diss narwhals!
[10:38] <vish> NARWHAAAAAAAAALLSSSSS rule!
[10:38] <thorwil> yaya, they're awesome
[10:39] <thorwil> jedi unicorns of the sea
[10:39] <vish> http://weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals/
[11:35] <nigelb> vish: you must be banned :p you're getting more people addicted :D :D :D
[11:49] <thorwil> addicted? i went 2 weeks without and only started to shiver a little bit
[12:03] <nigelb> thorwil: lol
[15:06] <nisshh> zkriesse: i didnt know you ran the Youth Team :)
[15:34] <flan> http://chipx86.github.com/gtkparasite/ I fully intend to use this in my next GTK project, if only because of the artwork.
[15:35] <nisshh> flan: that project looks awesome, im going to check it out some more :)
[17:23] <flan> Lemme know if you find any really cool uses for it.
[17:23] <flan> I'm thinking it'll allow for better testing of procedural workflow designs.
[17:24] <flan> Like what we're doing with Quickshot. So we can bypass my whole insistance on making every window individually runnable.
[17:24] <flan> If a console can hijack the current window at any point, everything would become super-easy.
[17:25] <flan> Heck. I'm gonna switch modes and start using it tonight.
[17:25] <flan> It looks like a much cleaner approach.
[17:26] <flan> Aww... He died. :(
[17:26] <flan> His brain was eated by cute.
[17:30] <flan> 10:24 < flan> Like what we're doing with Quickshot. So we can bypass my whole
[17:30] <flan>               insistance on making every window individually runnable.
[17:30] <flan> 10:24 < flan> If a console can hijack the current window at any point,
[17:30] <flan>               everything would become super-easy.
[17:30] <flan> 10:25 < flan> Heck. I'm gonna switch modes and start using it tonight.
[17:30] <flan> 10:25 < flan> It looks like a much cleaner approach.
[17:30] <flan> 10:25 -!- nisshh [~ryan@ubuntu/member/nisshh] has quit [Ping timeout: 258
[17:30] <flan>           seconds]
[17:30] <flan> 10:26 < flan> Aww... He died. :(
[17:30] <flan> 10:26 < flan> His brain was eated by cute.
[17:31]  * flan spams.
[18:02] <nisshh> flan: my net crapped itself at that point
[18:02] <nisshh> everything just went *pop* and dissapeared
[18:02] <nisshh> :)
[18:14] <flan> Nope. Brain eated by cute.
[18:14] <flan> True statement.
[18:15] <flan> End of discussion.
[18:19] <nisshh> lol flan :)
[19:08] <jenkins> flan: ping
[19:33] <thorwil> ping
[19:33] <vish> thorwil: that was a sad little piggy, err. ping! ;p
[19:34] <thorwil> vish: well, it worked, without addressee ;)
[19:35] <thorwil> but i fully support a pong for jenkins
[19:36] <jenkins> hey thorwil and vish how are you?
[19:36] <vish> thorwil: no worries,i'v got your 6! ;)
[19:36] <vish> jenkins: hey.. sleepy ;)  [ just about to hit the sack :) ]
[19:37] <jenkins> flan: http://imagebin.org/112298 what is the purpose of the bits circled in red?
[19:37] <thorwil> jenkins: good, self?
[19:37] <jenkins> sleep well vish
[19:37] <jenkins> I am good thanks thorwil
[19:38] <thorwil> jenkins: i would suspect custom widgets to fill those gaps
[19:38] <jenkins> I suspect so as well but I just want to double check as the window is not organised as I would expect
[19:39] <jenkins> as far as glade goes
[19:39] <thorwil> got 2 artwork requests today, still a lack of those willing to pay, though
[19:39] <jenkins> thats not good, out of interest whats the going rate?
[19:39] <jenkins> I am a poor student :P
[19:40] <thorwil> jenkins: varies a lot. from 200 for like a full week to 450 per day, so far :}
[19:41] <jenkins> nice :)
[19:41] <thorwil> jenkins: recommendations say one should take at least 60 € per hour as freelancer
[19:42] <jenkins> there are recomendations for that sort of thing
[19:43] <thorwil> of course
[19:43] <jenkins> whats that page that ben added the projects to that tells you its worth if we paid everyone
[19:44] <thorwil> if i wouldn't live for cheap as it is already, i would have to move to some place in asia, or something
[19:44] <thorwil> ohloh?
[19:44] <flan> jenkins, they're just spacers. You'll see when you run it.
[19:45] <thorwil> http://www.ohloh.net/p/ubuntu-manual
[19:45] <jenkins> i thought they were any objections to removing them and reorganising the boxes flan?
[19:45] <flan> In the meantime, Parasite. I'm gonna drop the every-window-can-run-itself push in favour of using that. It looks awesome. (Google Parasite + Gnome)
[19:45] <flan> You can do whatever you feel looks good.
[19:45] <flan> I just provided my idea.
[19:46] <flan> Just make sure it's completely obvious. Like, that the user can't possibly get confused and fill in more information than they have to to complete any specific step.
[19:46] <flan> (To that end, I feel that a unique button is necessary for each path)
[19:46] <jenkins> thanks thorwil that was it
[19:46]  * flan AFKs for 1.5 hours.
[19:46] <jenkins> flan: i want to keep the idea just reduce the boxes used etc
[19:46] <jenkins> later flan
[19:54] <jenkins> godbyk: ping
[20:08] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: hey!
[20:08] <jenkins> hey bilalakhtar I was about to contact you
[20:09] <jenkins> what would you like to help with?
[20:09] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: yes! I have branched the quickshot source, looking at it its clear it isn't running on maverick
[20:09] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: I am using maverick , can fix bugs
[20:09] <bilalakhtar> flan: Thanks for the memo!
[20:10] <jenkins> cool well it should work up to the first screen opening and that is as far as the gui goes at the moment
[20:10] <bilalakhtar> yes it does work to the full screne
[20:10] <bilalakhtar> then tells me I should be using lucid
[20:10] <bilalakhtar> I can easily solve that
[20:11] <jenkins> really what branch have you got i am using mavrick and do not have that?
[20:11] <jenkins> what revison is it?
[20:11] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: ah, I misused the word 'branch'
[20:11] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: I apt-get sourced from the PPA
[20:11]  * bilalakhtar branches it off now
[20:11] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: Actually I wanted to look at the deps
[20:12] <jenkins> are thats why its not working, we are rewrting from scratch at the moment so the old version is rather obsolete
[20:12] <jenkins> http://imagebin.org/112304 is the new first page
[20:12] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: cool!
[20:13] <jenkins> i wrote the lucid thing as a fail safe for the manual team to avoid people taking screenshots on other versoins of ubuntu
[20:13] <jenkins> you will need to install quickly
[20:13] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: really?
[20:14] <bilalakhtar> hmm, ok
[20:14] <jenkins> well the project started as a quickly project and we have not worked out / had time to work out how to open the glade files with out doing "quickly design"
[20:15] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: Ah, that isn't difficult at all!
[20:15] <bilalakhtar> builder = gtk.Builder()
[20:15] <bilalakhtar> builder.add_from_file('PATH_TO_UI_FILE')
[20:15] <bilalakhtar> that's it!
[20:15] <jenkins> is that how to open them in glade to edit them?
[20:16] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: to open them in glade a double-click works
[20:16] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: you mean for the quickly UIs? I don't know about that
[20:18] <jenkins> yea me nether thats the only reason we are still using quickly o and quickly run but i expect there is an equivalent to that as well
[20:19] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: Project QStream on LP started off as a quickly project; in the middle I transitioned it away from Quickly because I don't like quickly
[20:19] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: and it appears I am not interested in quickshot any more, sorry
[20:19] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: I would contribute to the Ubuntu Manual rather
[20:20] <thorwil> jenkins: may i suggest "Welcome to Quickshot!  Capture screenshots in a variety of languages, under specific conditions, to submit them to documentation projects." as short is better
[20:20] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: you are free to decline me from the team
[20:20] <jenkins> how come whats worng with quickly. I do all the release stuff?
[20:20] <jenkins> thanks for the suggestion
[20:21] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: I will see tomorrow; I have experience with Python and can definitely help; okay I will work
[20:21] <jenkins> you should give feed back to didrocks in #quickly he always want its. thanks that would be great
[20:21] <jenkins> look forward to talking to you tomorrow
[20:23] <bilalakhtar> Thanks jenkins !
[20:23] <jenkins> no problem thank you have a good evening/day (depending on time zone)
[20:24] <bilalakhtar> jenkins: I have decided; just managed to run quickshot, looks good, don't have a good bandwidth right now so cannot install quickly, I will surely help now, starting from tomorrow. its late night in here
[20:25] <jenkins> cool, I will try and find out a way of not using quickly run and quickly desgin so you don't need to use them
[20:26] <bilalakhtar> bye, going
[20:27] <jenkins> flan: for some reason now the .ui files open in glade by clicking them
[21:06] <flan> I removed the legacy dependencies from the files.
[21:06] <flan> Their broken-except-by-opening-in-Quickly-ness bothered me.
[21:08] <jenkins> hey flan i tried to assign the start from url to the button but I could not get the button to do anything how do I get it to import into the bin/quickshot file? I tried the normal way
[21:08] <flan> I don't like Quickly, either, for the record.
[21:08] <flan> Like, at all.
[21:09] <flan> I think it embodies the same things I hate about using IDEs.
[21:09] <flan> And Glade over GTK calls.
[21:09] <flan> But I'm a control freak.
[21:11] <jenkins> well as the .ui files now open by clicking. what is the quickly run eqivilent command and we can stop using it
[21:11] <flan> It should just be ./quickshot
[21:11] <flan> Open the script in Python.
[21:12] <flan> You can continue using quickly run and quickly design, if you want.
[21:12] <flan> I've servered the core dependencies on Quickly.
[21:13] <flan> (I broke them all last night 'cause I didn't install Quickly before getting into my dad's truck, aos I had to develop stuff offline)
[21:13] <jenkins> I would like to know the equivlients as I would like to stop using quickly as i do all the release stuff and thats the hard bit
[21:13] <flan> Don't worry too much about wiring the buttons for now. I'll implement the main page tonight, to give you a working model for further development.
[21:13] <flan> sc source
[21:14] <flan> cd source #*
[21:14] <flan> bin/quickshot
[21:14] <flan> It should "just work".
[21:14] <jenkins> o right we can stop using quickly
[21:15] <flan> But a better solution would be to move quickshot out of bin/ and add a file-specific rule to the Debian path information.
[21:15]  * jenkins does sudo apt-get remove quickly
[21:15] <flan> We still want the quickshot/ package in python-shared. But we also want to avoid import-path-mangling.
[21:15] <flan> Which using bin/ requires us to do.
[21:15] <flan> I'd advise against that.
[21:16] <flan> Keep using Quickly until we've got this working for the Maverick launch.
[21:16] <flan> Then we'll remove all legacy references to it in time for the official 1.0 release.
[21:16] <jenkins> well i can soon change the rules file so that the bin/quickshot file is some where else in the source
[21:16] <flan> Maverick will likely be server:1.0.0-preview and client:0.9.x.
[21:17] <jenkins> cool
[21:17] <jenkins> installed quickly again
[21:17] <flan> We'll fix bugs in each as they appear.
[21:17] <flan> And simultaneously commit non-critical enhancements to get the client up to 1.0.0 around the same time we release the manual.
[21:18] <flan> So, for now, getting it working's the biggest thing.
[21:18] <jenkins> sounds good. anything else I cna do
[21:18] <flan> I see you didn't like my separators. =P
[21:18]  * flan has a habit of using <hr/>s in web pages, too.
[21:18] <jenkins> I am going to redo the about window when I get the time. I could not decide on the separators I decided against them in the end
[21:18] <flan> It looks good without them, though.
[21:19] <flan> For now, an error-reporting window is a must.
[21:19] <flan> I don't care if we just use GTKDialog (if you think it looks good) or subclass it or create a totally new window.
[21:20] <flan> But we need to be able to tell the user that a problem occurred, that details are available, and ask them to tell the program what to do to recover.
[21:20] <jenkins> how much do we want to display to the user? can we just say "an error occured pleas click "file a bug" to tell us what went wrong"  ?
[21:21] <jenkins> I have no clue how they would recover the program but as we have apport support the bug stuff should be easy as it pulls in the last three logs
[21:23] <flan> "Oops! Something went wrong." "The gist of the problem is <...>" "The gory details follow." ("This error is non-recoverable", [send bug report] [make the developers guess at the problem] | "You can try contacting the server again" [Do it] [Nah] | "Your system's messed up beyond repair" [that sucks])
[21:23] <flan> Not every problem will need a bug report.
[21:24] <flan> If the Qs server crashes mid-op or the user's network connection drops, we don't really care, from a bug-fixing standpoint.
[21:24] <flan> If it's an unhandled exception, then we'll need to ask for a report/let apport handle that/however whatever works.
[21:25] <jenkins> I think a gtk dialog is fine
[21:25] <flan> 'Kay.
[21:25] <flan> We can just use TextWrap to make it multi-line, as necessary.
[21:25] <jenkins> yep
[21:26] <flan> I'll write the convenience class behind it tonight, too.
[21:27] <flan> So, then, I guess the next thing you'll need to do is prototype the "Okay, the server's up and it told me I need to be a user named 'Juan Giseppe'. Why is this important and how can I set it up?" window.
[21:27] <flan> Should the user be given the option to skip this step?
[21:28] <jenkins> so the manual user case of a consitant user name on the pc or they need to give us details to do the project
[21:29] <flan> The manual user for consistency.
[21:29] <jenkins> also can we remove the http://imagebin.org/112311 bit please. alot of our windows are fixed dimensions so do not/can not be resized
[21:29] <jenkins> k'ay
[21:29] <flan> We can't collect contributor details this early, since they may need to change to another user.
[21:29] <flan> And then ~/.quickshot will change.
[21:30] <flan> If we let them skip this, there should be a warning that'll tell them that the project administrators may not be able to accept all uploaded screenshots.
[21:30] <flan> If we don't let them skip it, then, obviously, there won't be a warning.
[21:31] <jenkins> well we should only show it if the project needs it and not allow skiping
[21:31] <flan> That thing you pointed out is actually a status bar. I always find them a good way of providing background information to users about what's going on.
[21:31] <flan> For example, "Attempting to contact server..."
[21:31] <flan> Okay. No skipping.
[21:32] <flan> username = details['config'].get('username')
[21:32] <flan> if username:
[21:32] <flan>   if not-current-user:
[21:32] <flan>     show_window
[21:33] <flan> Probably also if it is the current user, but the Common attribute differs from what's expected.
[21:33] <flan> This is normally the user's "real name".
[21:33] <jenkins> ok can we remove the right hand dots form the status bar?
[21:34] <flan> I think so. I'll look into that tonight.
[21:34] <jenkins> it makes sense to keep the status bar. kay thanks
[21:34] <flan> I'm kinda surprised that calling set_resizable(False) leaves them enabled.
[21:34] <jenkins> I don't know its strange
[21:34] <flan> Oh.
[21:34] <flan> That's easy.
[21:35] <flan> In base.py, add the following:
[21:35] <flan> (Anywhere that makes sense after self._sbr... has been declared)
[21:35] <flan> Actually, no.
[21:35] <flan> Don't do it there.
[21:35] <flan> project_selection.py
[21:36] <flan> Find the code that says "self.set_resizable(...)"
[21:36] <flan> Immediately below that, add this line: self._sbr_<...>.set_has_resize_grip(self.get_resizable())
[21:37] <flan> Where <...> is whatever I called the status bar in base.py.
[21:37] <flan> Replicate that through all the new .py files.
[21:37] <jenkins> ok thanks will do
[21:38] <flan> Reference: http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/class-gtkstatusbar.html#method-gtkstatusbar--set-has-resize-grip
[21:39] <jenkins> yep that works, There is one window that is allowed to be expanded so i will not take it off of that
[21:39] <flan> Add the code anyway.
[21:39] <flan> It only disables it if the window is itself unresizable.
[21:40] <flan> If the window's resizable, the code's a no-op, effectively.
[21:40] <flan> It's just more consistent and it leaves full control in the Glade layer.
[21:41] <flan> (In case you ever want to make the window fixed-size-y.
[21:41] <jenkins> done, i will do a very rough user account set up window and tidy it up tomorrow.
[21:41] <flan> 'Kay.
[21:42] <flan> The next step after that is screen-resolution.
[21:43] <flan> (Probably)
[21:43] <flan> (Maybe it's uploader details)
[21:43] <flan> (But we can inject uploader details later)
[21:45] <jenkins> I will look at those tomorrow I need to go to bed soon. uploader one is there already
[21:45] <flan> 'Kay.
[21:46] <flan> I'll probably retouch all the Glade files today to make sure all the objects have conventional names.
[21:46] <flan> btn_whatever
[21:46] <flan> I probably won't mess with layout.
[21:46] <flan> I'll just get the welcome screen working and move some logic into modules/comments in appropriate modules.
[21:47] <flan> And get an error-reporting system in place.
[21:47] <flan> And the recent-projects system.
[21:51] <jenkins> cool I have done a rought window that looks awful but will do fine for if you want to impliment it will push it in about 10 mins
[21:52] <flan> 'Kay.
[21:52] <flan> I'm leaving aesthetics to you.
[21:53] <flan> Hopefully, we'll be able to maintain pace with each other until we're ready for the next UMP burst.
[21:55] <jenkins> we should be able to if i can get all the windows you want implace with all the boxes etc in it I can paly with the lay out untill my heart is content
[21:55] <flan> <3
[21:56] <jenkins> right night flan and all
[21:56] <flan> G'night~