[04:56] <avalmez> hello
[04:56] <avalmez> newbie...help?
[20:42] <dylan-m> Hey, quick question on Unity's global menu stuff :)
[20:42] <fagan> dylan-m: hey
[20:42] <fagan> (try not to ask to ask a question its not good IRC form )
[20:43] <fagan> ask away
[20:44] <dylan-m> According to Unity's design, when a window is unmaximized, is the application menu _meant_ to stay in the top panel or should it follow the title bar and be drawn in the window client again?
[20:44] <fagan> The menu should always be on the top
[20:45] <vish> heh , weird that synaptic chooses not to use the app menu ;)
[20:46] <fagan> vish: whys that?
[20:46] <vish> fagan: i guess no one looked into it :)
[20:46] <dylan-m> That would probably be because Synaptic is running as root, so it won't be connected to your session's dbus bus
[20:46] <vish> or that^
[20:46] <fagan> yeah thats right
[20:47] <dylan-m> Which is why aptdaemon is a wonderful, excellent thing
[20:47] <fagan> doesnt mean much to the regular user so its ok to get it next release
[20:48] <Omega> Have you guys looked into tiling window managers?
[20:48] <dylan-m> fagan: Thanks for the answer! It does feel a bit funny to me, but if it's designed for I'm happy!
[20:48] <dylan-m> (I would probably like it better if I stopped being stubborn and turned off “focus follows mouse”)
[20:49] <fagan> Omega: tiling window managers were a bad bad fad from the 90s that never took off
[20:49] <Omega> I believe that tiling is very powerfull, but they are not there yet.
[20:49] <Omega> fagan: Why do you think it is bad?
[20:49] <fagan> it is
[20:50] <fagan> its good if you have a huge screen
[20:50] <fagan> but 99% of people dont
[20:50] <Omega> But, there are also hybrid approaches
[20:50] <Omega> like bluetile
[20:50] <fagan> maybe so but you could just not have your windows maximized in a normal window manager
[20:51] <fagan> tiling is kinda redundant as a practice
[20:52] <fagan> since you can do it anyway with regular window managers
[20:52] <fagan> maybe not in the same way but the result is the same
[20:53] <Omega> It takes more effort to split the screen on a what you call normal window manager.
[20:53] <fagan> not really
[20:53] <fagan> just drag the windows to where you want
[20:53] <Omega> So it's half-off screen?
[20:54] <fagan> not really
[20:54] <Omega> Okay, how do you split the screen so two applications share it?
[20:54] <Omega> What are the steps.
[20:54] <fagan> you resize the two windows so they both fit
[20:55] <Omega> one by one
[20:55] <Omega> and then move them
[20:55] <fagan> yep
[20:55] <Omega> resize again
[20:55] <Omega> With a tiling window manager, you just resize (one) and the other also resizes
[20:56] <fagan> the current model is the most flexible and is the most widely used way of doing things
[20:56] <Omega> I don't see how it is more flexible, with bluetile you can also stack windows.
[20:56] <fagan> the only other one we may look at is how mac does it where the windows size to their natural sizes
[20:56] <Omega> Even Windows has some sort of tiling in it's latest operating system.
[20:57] <Omega> s/Windows/Microsoft
[20:57] <fagan> they have each application like we have its just the list is stacked to save space
[20:57] <Omega> No, I mean when you drag an application to the edge of the screen it 'snaps'
[20:58] <Omega> It's just that with stacking window managers you spend a lot of time arranging windows.
[20:58] <fagan> well we have it so it sizes the window to the last size it was before it was before it was maximized
[20:59] <Omega> I'm not talking about minimizing and maximizing.
[20:59] <fagan> I think compiz has that somewhere too
[21:00] <fagan> I dont think its the default behavior but its there
[21:00] <Omega> Oh.
[21:01] <fagan> But we are moving to Gnome Shell soon ish (within two cycles maybe) and that kinda likes the behavior that every program is maxed
[21:01] <dylan-m> I wouldn't really call Win7's approach "tiling," because the snapped windows don't influence the others in any way.
[21:01] <dylan-m> It does demonstrate that there's a lot of cool stuff one can add to conventional stacking window managers without completely changing them. Lots of room for adventurous souls to experiment with stuff that makes sorting windows a bit easier. (A spring simulation for pushing windows against each other springs to mind).
[21:02] <Omega> Yeah, a hybrid approach would work, I believe.
[21:08] <fagan> Man I love two finger scrolling
[21:09] <Omega> I can't get it to work ):
[21:09] <Omega> Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccniJHjo_Uw
[21:09] <fagan> lol I just found a really nice crash in nautilus
[21:10] <fagan> damn doesnt trigger apport
[21:10] <fagan> :/
[21:11] <fagan> hmmm someone scroll really fast over the listbox that says icon view in nautilus for a sec
[21:11] <fagan> go up and down over and over again
[21:11] <fagan> and it should crash
[21:11] <Omega> Watch the video please.
[21:11] <dylan-m> I think you blew up thorwil's computer :P
[21:11] <fagan> nice
[21:15] <Omega> That's just one experiment, there are loads of other ways we can make it better.
[21:16] <dylan-m> fagan: Okay, I reproduced your crash! :)
[21:16] <fagan> nice
[21:16] <fagan> im such an awesome tester
[21:16] <fagan> im going to make a bug
[21:16] <fagan> :D
[21:18] <dylan-m> It was a bit tricky, though… Wasn't cooperating when I was going _really_ quickly, then it crashed when I did it a bit slower (so that it showed each state instead of just jumping straight between Icon View and List View)
[21:18] <fagan> I got it when I scrolled over it once
[21:19] <Omega> Scrolling?
[21:19] <fagan> ah its already a bug
[21:19] <fagan> :/
[21:22] <Omega> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE_Qb7arW3s
[21:26] <Omega> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb8arxn5C-0&feature=channel Is also interesting.
[21:28] <Omega> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccniJHjo_Uw
[21:29] <Omega> Eh, I already pasted that.
[21:29] <Omega> Paste-o.