DonSliceAh sweet.00:26
DonSliceAnyone having issues with Guake in regards to bashrc formatting/coloring?00:26
* penguin42 doesn't know guake00:27
jasbututI got partial upgrade, how about you?00:27
DonSliceI don't think I got a partial upgrade.00:28
penguin42jasbutut: Couple of stuck packages; evolution in particular00:28
DonSliceoh. right. derp00:28
jasbutut@penguin42: I got much, include nvidia driver. Totally 50 MB on 30 packages.00:29
penguin42not sure what the current state of nvidia is; I'm just left with evolution00:30
jasbututI'm looking out how to know which update is safe?00:30
penguin42one way to find out!00:30
penguin42try it!00:33
jasbututI tr00:35
jasbututI'm trying to find the safe one.00:36
penguin42jasbutut: But there are still plenty of things that go wrong, so don't do it on a critical machine00:36
jasbututI still waiting. Maybe dependencies resolve itself next few hours.00:38
jasbututAnd now scanning the forum, maybe someone got same issue.00:40
scott_inohello, I'd like to test my multi-touch and I know ubuntu is doing major work on multi-touch for next release but I'd like to try and test now with whatever existing packages exist. Utouch doesn't seem to be there01:11
penguin42scott_ino: If no one here can answer you might want to try #ubuntu-x01:12
scott_inoty penguin4201:13
DonSliceAnyone having issues with Guake in regards to bashrc formatting/coloring. I have my bash set to be all pretty blue, but guake strips it. :(01:13
scott_inoI know they're working on a completely new implementation but I'd like to try with the existing tools01:13
voidmagepenguin42: thanks for testing that earlier, wrote a small patch that should fix it01:19
penguin42no problem01:19
=== Sary is now known as Sary|a
DonSliceWhen I run guake from the menu, it fails to interpret bashrc correctly (ie, formatting is messed up, and it strips the color). However, when I run guake from the terminal, it works as expected.02:36
DonSliceAny ideas on what's going on?02:36
litropyHi, peeps. When I'm searching for files using Unity's new "app chooser", it looks like my windows manager reboots.02:37
litropyit happens after I type in a few characters.02:37
litropyAlso, this happens if I click an icon (still within the app chooser)02:38
litropyI guess we can still call it a launcher, per netbook-launcher]02:38
C-S-Bjackd broken for anyone else?03:05
crimsun_C-S-B: what error message?03:11
C-S-BI stand corrected, ardour is fine, its when loading reaper within wine using winasio03:11
crimsun_ergh, wine03:12
C-S-Btell me about it03:13
C-S-Bthis was working in lucid however03:13
bdoggdoes anyone know what happened to the rythmbox applet in maverick beta?03:13
C-S-Bits in the sound applet03:14
bdoggso it was just removed and now the its the sound applet?03:14
C-S-BI think thats where it always was going to be03:15
bdogg:/ thats kinda dumb03:15
C-S-Bhow so>03:16
bdoggthey should have just added the controls to the actual rythmbox applet03:20
bdogginstead of merging it with the sound applet03:20
bdoggbut idk, i guess they have some reason for why the did things that way that im not aware of03:20
crimsun_the design is in mpt's blog03:21
crimsun_also, it's open source; feel free to add the controls to the actual rb applet03:21
bdogglol, thats to advanced for me03:21
HewHi guys. I've upgraded to 10.10 on my desktop, but now it just drops me to a terminal login, or just gives a blank screen. I removed xorg.conf but that didn't fix it. Have similar problems been reported by others?03:27
gnomefreakHew: nvidia?03:30
Hewgnomefreak, fglrx, but I removed xorg.conf in the hope it defaulted to ati/radeon03:31
gnomefreakHew: ati not sure about but it is a good chance it is caused by the transition to x1.903:31
Hewlooking at Xorg.0.log it looks like there is a segfault.03:32
gnomefreakthan that isnt the same03:32
gnomefreakdoes it say no screens found?03:33
=== gnomefreak changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Official Ubuntu Maverick Meerkat support/discussion | IRC Guidelines: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Lucid support in #ubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule | Beta Released : See http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/maverick/beta | Firefox 4.0 will not make 10.10 | The Ubuntu font information can be found http://tinyurl.com/347wdr6
gnomefreakmuch better :)03:33
Hewgnomefreak, I can't see that anywhere, I don't think so03:35
Hew"Segmentation fault at address (nil)"03:35
Hew"Caught signal 11 (Segmentation failt). Server aborting"03:35
gnomefreakHew: it would be at teh bottom. file a bug on the segfault03:35
gnomefreakHew: yeah you would see no screens found with that error as well03:36
Hewgnomefreak, I can't see a crash report in /var/crash for this (other than one for plymouthd). What's the proper way to report this, ubuntu-bug xorg?03:39
gnomefreakit seems the fixed nvidia-current was uploaded since yesterday morning03:39
gnomefreakHew: what ati driver are you using?03:40
Hewgnomefreak, I was using fglrx with 10.04, but I have removed xorg.conf as part of debugging this problem.03:41
Hewgnomefreak, I'd rather switch to ati/radeon to test with 10.1003:41
gnomefreakHew: did you rename or remove?03:41
gnomefreakHew: ubuntu-bug xorg-driver-fglrx03:42
Hewgnomefreak, should I put xorg.conf back, or just leave things as-is?03:43
gnomefreakHew: it doesnt matter what you want to use when filing a bug report. and i do think we still have nonfree ati driver in repos03:43
gnomefreakHew: leave it as is but you maay need to attach it to bug report. and let them know you renamed it03:43
gnomefreakHew: if you use jockey to install drivers it will give you the option on what one you want03:45
* gnomefreak be back03:46
* Hew is reporting it now03:47
Hewgnomefreak, bug 630599, thanks for your help03:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 630599 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 10.10 fails to load xorg" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63059903:55
gnomefreakHew: attach you xorg.conf file03:56
gnomefreakgfaim is not in english :(03:58
gnomefreakPlease note that those recipes are written in French.03:59
gnomefreakof course why not in french03:59
NafaiI just upgraded to Maverick and whenever a window is maximized, the window controls and title bar aren't displayed.04:00
Hewgnomefreak, that's difficult because I'm reporting from my netbook, but I'll try04:00
gnomefreakNafai: disable compiz04:00
gnomefreaksee if that helps04:00
NafaiYeah, I've tried turning off and on compiz and it makes no difference04:01
gnomefreakNafai: are they covered by the menu bar?04:01
* gnomefreak not seeing this problem04:01
Nafaiif I hit Control-Space, one of the options is "Bring titlebar onscreen"04:02
Nafaibut it doesn't do anything04:02
Nafainope, if I turn on "autohide" on my top panel, when it hides, it doesn't show the title bar04:02
gnomefreaki remember seeing the bug but IIRC it was compiz on <=10.0404:03
* Nafai nods04:03
vlcnI thought chrome was going to be the default in une 10.10?04:08
vlcnwell, chromium I guess04:08
gnomefreakvlcn: not until 10.04 on UNR only04:08
vlcnisn't 10.04 the current release?04:09
gnomefreakvlcn: 10.10 in devel04:09
vlcnyou lost me04:09
gnomefreak10.10 is in development see /topic for more info04:10
gnomefreakthis channel is for 10.1004:10
vlcnyes.  but you said not until 10.0404:10
vlcnoh, okay04:10
vlcnis there any way to make chromium look less awkward?04:18
vlcnyou either get the system theme and the tabs get pushed down(and typicallydon't match)04:21
vlcnor you are stuck with what chrome has built in which doesn't match04:21
voidmagevlcn: i don't understand, can you screenshot it?04:23
vlcndon't have any way to atm04:24
vlcnnot on that machine atm04:24
Nafaignomefreak: figured out my issue, for some reason maximus was added to my startup programs04:24
vlcnanyone know what happened to /usr/lib/X11/xorg.conf.d04:56
DanaGSay, if I want to try r600 gallium, how do I tell xorg to use /usr/lib/dri/gallium/r600_dri.so ?05:09
DanaG ?05:09
DanaGer, somehow ended up with an extra '?'.05:10
DanaGhmm, timidity through pulseaudio is stuttery... the timing is not quite right.05:22
DanaGIt's true even if I schedtool it to FIFO.05:23
DanaGActually, it seems to get less laggy as time goes on.05:26
=== _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero
bdogghow do you enable accelerated composting on chrome?07:12
bdogghow do you enable accelerated composting on chrome in ubuntu?07:16
SwedeMikebdogg: it's bad form to repeat oneself and demand answers by filling the channel with "anyone?" etc.07:18
bdoggno one?07:18
omgh4xanyone here?09:07
papegaaijhi all09:11
papegaaiji'm trying to install the 10.10 beta, but i'm having trouble with my Silicon Image 3114 SATA controller09:11
papegaaijthe sata_sil driver is loaded, but none of the harddisks are detected09:11
papegaaijon top of that, the commandline is not very usable in graphics mode, because it is way too slow09:13
papegaaiji don't get it, the sata_sil driver is loaded, but the only scsi drive that shows up is the usb-stick i use for booting09:16
gogetayo does 10.10 support booting btrfs directly or do i need a ext /boot09:19
yofelyou need ext /boot for now09:19
gogeta32 mb still a good size09:20
yofelif you only need one or two kernels then it should be enough09:21
yofelI would recommend at least 50 though, the initrd images are pretty large here09:21
gogetawell i remove old kernels09:22
gogetaso 50mb should be a perfect buffer09:22
gogetasmack grub2 devs again09:23
yofelright, but here I get 4.3M vmlinuz + 2.3M system.map + 12M initrd per kernel, and additional ~7M for grub09:23
gogetasystems been out sence 2008 and grub still has no support09:23
yofelI didn't follow btrfs that closely, but I think there's some licensing issue in the way09:24
gogetafigured id giv the unti btrfs+compression a try09:24
papegaaijhmmm, how do i install ubuntu if the installer doesn't detect my harddrives? :/09:24
gogetaits gpl lol09:25
gogetait pretty mutch left off where riser fs stoped09:25
papegaaiji really don't get it, the right drivers are loaded, but the hdd's just don't show up09:25
gogetaits to overcome the shortcomings of ext409:26
yofelpapegaaij: does the kernel see them at least?09:26
gogetafor stuff like extra large drives snapshops compression support09:26
papegaaijyofel: they don't show up in dmesg09:26
papegaaijso, i guess not09:26
yofelpapegaaij: then file a bug against the kernel with 'ubuntu-bug linux'09:27
omgh4xhey I installed xubuntu 10.10 on my comp with an ssd and it is ridiculously slow...did I do something wrong?09:27
gogetai ear turning on compression makes the ssd fly09:27
yofelomgh4x: what's slow, the UI or the system in general?09:28
omgh4xwell it took me two minutes to boot after post09:28
yofelah, hm..09:28
ubottubootchart charts your machine at boot time, to install >> sudo apt-get install bootchart << the graphic is in /var/log/bootchart after the next reboot09:28
gogetai think the inital compression is slow09:28
gogetaafter its fast09:29
omgh4xwould it help by downgrading to the stable09:29
gogetaor use ext409:29
gogetabtrfs is still very young09:29
omgh4xi am using ext409:29
gogetaby defuly its btffs now09:30
yofelomgh4x: well, you can't really downgrade, can you try bootchart? might give a clue about what's taking so long09:30
omgh4xi can format it. im running on live now09:30
yofelwell, that will certainly work if you want 10.04 back09:31
omgh4xplus when i set my bios to achi or whatever it is, it would not boot09:31
gogetayea unless your running a netbook idont see any huge changes09:31
gogetasoiunds like it installed to btrfs09:31
gogetait will convery a ext over09:31
omgh4xwell I looked and it said it was ext409:32
yofelit shouldn't I think, at least I'm running mav with ext4 fine09:32
gogetaif he used auto btrfs in defult09:33
omgh4xi just said "erase entire disk and install"09:33
omgh4xand ext4 was the first option09:33
ginbuntuI am running ubuntu 10.10 beta, can I install kubuntu-desktop on it and use the latest version of KDE?09:34
* yofel checks his latest test installation09:34
yofelginbuntu: should work09:35
yofelginbuntu: here the installer used ext4 as default (tested 2 days ago)09:36
yofeler, gogeta ^09:36
omgh4xis there a way I can check my current filesystem to see if its btrfs?09:36
omgh4xim new to linux09:36
yofelomgh4x: try to mount it without defining the filesystem type and check the output of 'mount' after that09:37
omgh4xwell I just tried the command mount and it returned "/dev/sda1 on / type ext4"09:45
omgh4xand some other stuff09:45
omgh4xdoes that help?09:45
yofeldidn't you run a live disk right now? I think that's the live disk filesystem09:46
omgh4xon my drive now09:47
yofelah, then you have ext409:47
omgh4xive switched so much i thought I was live lol09:47
omgh4xthats the weird part becuase I though ext4 was optimized for ssds right?09:48
yofelactually btrfs is optimized for ssds, ext4 has trim support now, but you might need to add the 'discard' mount option to enable that09:49
yofelcan't remember if it's on by default or not09:49
AlanBellis Ubuntu One broken on Maverick?09:49
gogetacant make it usn bootable09:49
omgh4xi think Im going to back to stable09:50
omgh4xand see if it works better09:50
omgh4xwell I was never on stable so I hope Im not just going in circles09:50
omgh4xso should I put my bios to ahci because last time I did that, id did not even boot09:52
omgh4xright now its on ide09:52
gogeta1great how do i make this dammed thing bootable in windows10:11
babaii'm hit by this bug when trying to install maverick from usb https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/62195110:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 621951 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "udevd-work[674]: kernel-provided name 'dm-5' and NAME= 'mapper/main-server1a--lu cid-cow' disagree, please use SYMLINK+= or change the kernel to provide the prop er name " [Medium,Triaged]10:16
babaiany solution to this?10:16
papegaaijyofel: I just found that the sata_sil driver seems to detect the 2 drives10:26
papegaaijat least, I think it is, it is logging this for 2 drives: ata8: SATA link up 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 113 SControl 310)10:27
papegaaijbut then: ata8.00: NODEV after polling detection10:27
papegaaijperhaps it is related to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=154222310:29
gogeta1i cant make this this usb boot10:50
papegaaijyofel: i think the bug has already been reported: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1660610:52
ubottubugzilla.kernel.org bug 16606 in Serial ATA "sata_sil no longer detects sata hard disk" [High,New]10:52
rom1vin ubuntu software center, how to filter "free software only"?10:52
KatsukiAnyone having applications un-installing themselves on reboot?10:55
KatsukiAnd does anyone know how to stop this?10:56
yofelpapegaaij: interesting...10:56
KatsukiProgram in question is Progress quest10:56
papegaaijyofel: it seems 2.6.35 isn't working very well with some sil_sata devices10:57
yofelright, reading the report right now10:57
papegaaiji don't think it's a good idea to upgrade when the hdd is not working :)11:00
KatsukiYou two mind sharing this link your reading?11:01
papegaaijKatsuki: you mean this: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1660611:02
ubottubugzilla.kernel.org bug 16606 in Serial ATA "sata_sil no longer detects sata hard disk" [High,New]11:02
Katsukiha ouch11:03
KatsukiI've got maverick working okay, guess I be lucky11:03
papegaaijyou are also using the sata_sil driver?11:03
papegaaijit's pretty obvious when you are hitting this bug :)11:04
papegaaiji'm giving up on this11:15
papegaaiji guess i have to wait untill this is fixed in the kernel before installing 10.1011:15
KatsukiJust continue using the old kernel11:19
KatsukiNever mind I see its all versions 2.511:19
Dr_WillisWe are not dead.. we are just Pining for the Fjords!11:21
KatsukiSo anyone here actually running 0.1011:21
Dr_WillisYes i am - on 2 machines11:21
KatsukiRestarted them yet?11:21
Dr_Willisseveral times11:22
Dr_Willisupdated, upgraded, installed stuff.. rebooted...11:22
Dr_Willisone is a clean install. one is a Upgrade11:23
KatsukiNo problems?11:23
Dr_WillisNone past getting the installer/live cd  to actually work on my  nvidia systems11:23
KatsukiWell II'm running a Nvidia system did an upgraded from 10.04 no problems at all but it wont let me uninstall some applications or install some, and when I do it just reverts back after a reboot11:26
KatsukiTbh I'm getting sick of uninstalling wine11:26
Katsukiand having to reinstall Progress quest11:27
KatsukiOf course it's not system critical just annoying11:27
undifined:) pleanty of updates again11:51
Dr_WillisIve not had any of those issues..11:54
Dr_WillisHmm,, did UbuntuOne vanish in 10.10?11:54
Dr_WillisTomboy notes seems connected and synced.. but the UbuntuOne directory dosent have the 'connect' button at the top. and no applet in my panel to show im connected11:56
undifinedDr_Willis, no, it is still installed12:01
Dr_Willisodd. not seeing the panel icon here.12:02
Dr_Willisperhaps i disabled that on autostart some how12:02
Dr_Williswasent there supposed to be some 'sync firefox' via ubuntu one feature in the works?12:03
undifinedyes it does that, but i sync chrome with google12:03
undifinedi used xmarks before12:03
undifinedwhich I recommend if you switch platforms often12:04
penguin42has anyone had something where the screen unlock refuses to take the return?  Had it a couple of time in the last few weeks12:06
Dr_WillisIve not seen the issuie yet penguin42 . but i normally disable the loc12:21
AlanDoes ubuntu dislike aptitude or something? I notece it's not in a default installation any more...12:23
penguin42Dr_Willis: It's a bit odd, it's only happened pretty rarely and it's taking keys as I type them12:24
Dr_Willisperhaps its usinbg enter to change focus..  i havent seen the issue.  but i always disable the screen lock feature alspo12:25
Dr_WillisOk.. did they rename the icon/menu item for the 'hardware drivers' helper tool  Again!  :)12:33
Dr_Willisheh. now we got to correct all the guides/docs and factoids. :)12:34
* penguin42 has 'additional drivers' now12:34
Dr_WillisThis is like the 3rd name change I thik. :)12:35
Dr_Willisat least Now its at the Top of the menu12:35
Dr_WillisThis is my upgrade box. so i am not sure how pristine that menu is on this system. I have lots  of extra non-default entries i bet12:36
penguin42nod, I have most of the planet installed on here12:37
penguin42my preferences menu has a few things that are duped because one is Gnome and the other is {kde, xthingy)12:37
Dr_WillisYep - lots of those here also.12:37
Dr_WillisGee.. i just noticed in gnome.. screensaver.. you still cant confgure much of anything..12:38
* penguin42 lets this <--- machine upgrade while I have breakfast12:44
Alanso... what's the deal with aptitude?12:57
Alanany reason why it's not included any more?12:57
magnetron!info aptitude maverick12:59
ubottuaptitude (source: aptitude): terminal-based package manager (terminal interface only). In component main, is optional. Version 0.6.3-2ubuntu3 (maverick), package size 2217 kB, installed size 6612 kB12:59
edgycrimsun_: hi12:59
undifinedAlan, aptitude seems to lead a life of its own, it wants to uninstall things i just installed13:05
yofelAlan: can't do anything you can't already do with apt-cache/get or dpkg, and thus wastes space on the CD13:07
Alanyofel: is it on the server CD?13:08
penguin42oh cool; I never did give in to people telling me I should learn aptitude over apt-{get/cache}13:08
Alanyofel: because aptitude is really useful as a user interface when you don't have X running, but in addition to that, it's actually less crap with dependencies etc.13:09
yofelAlan: afaik yes, but I'm not 100% sure13:09
yofelwell, you can always install it, it's just not installed by default anymore on desktops13:09
Alanseems to know the difference between a manually installed and auto-installed package13:09
yofelwell, I use aptitude myself, but if they say it wastes space on the CD then I'm ok with it not being there by default13:10
AlanHow the hell can it take up that much space?13:11
Alanmanaged perfectly fine for the last few releases....13:12
edgycrimsun_: you remember when i installed the ppa for audio dev and the sound device disappear and you told you are going to fix it upstream then we continue debugging, then you went for something and we couldn't meet again?13:12
Alanah well, after my bitching.... i do like some of the new stuff13:13
Alanlike the "overlapped" installer...13:13
undifinedhmmm, software center has a big memleak with me13:15
RichieRichsaludos amig13:15
CrashbitRichieRich: english :)13:16
Alanalso, i approve of the checkbox to enable multiverse13:16
AlanWhat does ubuntu keep putting on the CD btw?13:20
Alanbecause i've noticed over the last few releases more and more apps disappearing13:20
Alanfor example, i swear it was only 2 relases ago that GIMP was on the CD....13:20
AlanHere's a pro tip - stop trying to fit OO.o on the CD13:20
AlanIt's crap anyway13:21
TheInfinityAlan: gimp is just for some specialists and they had problems to get it on cd. so it was removed.13:21
TheInfinityOOo is standard software, almost everybode needs an integrated office suite, so it will stay there :p13:22
AlanTheInfinity: so is remote desktop viewer / terminal services client13:22
Alanso drop those13:22
AlanTheInfinity: methinks abiword and gnumeric are smaller13:22
TheInfinityabiword and gnomeric does not have a presentation editor13:22
Alanthat's what the software centre is for13:23
Alanseems to be good enough to tell people to go there for an image editor13:23
Alando you think more people make presentations than edit images in some way?13:24
AlanBello/ Alan13:24
Alanis that a slap or a "high-five same-name!"13:24
AlanBellhigh five13:24
Alansuch a foul beast...13:24
AlanIt can't even draw native widgets nicely...13:25
Alanit's an eyesore13:25
Alanwhy couldn't they have started from scratch on a good office suite instead of assuming working from something that existed would give better results....13:25
TheImpAlan: its just a decision of how many ppl need a specific software. and an office suite is just used much more often then a complicated image editor13:26
AlanTheImp: then provide a simple image editor13:26
Alanthere are a few around13:26
TheImpAlan: which will be done some days if theres a really good one - most are very beta atm.13:26
AlanI get the feeling there are a few "core" packages that you feel MUST be kept, and they keep getting bigger, and you keep wanting to fit onto a CD13:27
AlanTheImp: *cough*gwibber*cough*13:27
=== TheImp is now known as TheInfinity
TheInfinityimho OOo is a must-kept, just like evolution or firefox.13:27
Alanbut those 3 keep getting bigger13:27
Alanand pushing all the useful stuff off13:28
Alangive up13:28
Alanmake a 900MB DVD image13:28
TheInfinitythere is a dvd image.13:28
Alana VERY big DVD image13:28
undifinedAlan I approve of OOo, but for the future Orcale is heading, a fork might be wise that does away of included java / replaced with python13:28
Alanundifined: why do you approve of OOo?13:28
Alanit's ugly, it's slow, and it's ugle13:28
yofelwell, the current DVD is the live and alternate disk merged + more language packs13:28
* penguin42 someone does need to keep hitting OOo until it isn't vast13:29
undifinedit got into existence as microsoft held monopoly on office13:29
TheInfinityAlan: its the only well integrated office suite linux has.13:29
* yofel notes koffice13:29
Alanyofel: does it install any more stuff than the standard CD?13:29
Alanor is it just a bigger collection of obsolete package versions?13:29
TheInfinityyofel: ... which is kde ;)13:29
yofelnot sure, haven't tested that13:29
yofelTheInfinity: you said 'linux' ;)13:30
AlanTheInfinity: yeah, shame isn't it?13:30
TheInfinity(ok, i should have written gnome + linux has ;) )13:30
TheInfinityAlan: yea. but i cant do anything against this :)13:30
Alanout of the spreadsheet apps available on linux, OOo is the only one that doesn't choke on a large conversion from CSV13:30
Alankspread takes a year and then dies13:31
Alangnumeric is fast, but then hangs for simple things like changing the colour of a column13:31
AlanOOo manages to chug through it13:31
penguin42its finally got rid of the 65k row limit in OOo13:31
penguin42Alan: Chug is the word though13:31
Alannot sure about that13:31
TheInfinityAlan: OOo is a nice peace of software at all. its just a bit slow.13:31
penguin42IMHO hte problem with OOo is it's just so damn big that no one can just open it up and fix something that is broken13:31
Alanoh dear, are ubuntu encouraging people to pay for DVD decoder software now?13:33
Alanthere's a scary thought13:33
undifinedAlan, where ?13:34
Alanin the software center13:35
Alanfluendo DVD player...13:35
lucidfoxgnome-terminal doesn't paste text from epiphany browser views13:36
lucidfoxI wonder if it's a gnome-terminal bug or a webkit bug13:36
yofelwasn't it planned from the very beginning to make software-center support payed software too?13:36
yofelthe very first versions were called software-store after all13:36
undifinedAlan I thin that is more of a way for canonical to make some money13:37
undifinedthe fluendo mp3 codecs i have installed are free13:38
penguin42Don't they ship a small part of fluendo for the ubuntu music store for playing MP3s13:38
undifinedand everything plays fine with gstreamer13:38
=== Blizzzek is now known as Blizzz
Daekdroomare libbrasero0-media and rhythmbox-plugin-cdrecorder packages meant to be removed?15:59
vishanyone know the bug# for the help garbled text?16:09
vishhehe!  Bug #63067116:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 630671 in yelp (Ubuntu) "wtf?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63067116:16
* nigelb blinks16:19
Ian_corne$ yelp16:25
Ian_corneCould not initialize gecko!16:25
Ian_cornethat vish ? :p16:25
DaekdroomI loved the bug name16:25
penguin42I saw that as a separate bug; but I wonder if it's actually the cause of the disalaying numbered blocks instead of text16:25
DaekdroomIt tells everything16:25
vishIan_corne: do you know the main bug# ?16:33
vishthere must be a bug about it somewhere..16:33
Ian_corneI've reported it myself too16:33
Ian_cornecan't see it atm16:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 574418 in yelp (Ubuntu) "The Advanced Topics/Terminal Commands References (man pages) All text is garbage (dup-of: 565893)" [Low,New]16:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 565893 in yelp (Ubuntu) "[lucid] "Terminal Commands References" display is unintelligible." [Low,Confirmed]16:35
vishIan_corne: awesome thanks :)16:36
Ian_corneIt's the second one16:36
Ian_cornefirst one is a dupliocate16:36
Dr_WillisHmm. I notice an issue every so often, if you select that 'me menu' at the top right , where your name and chat account settings are set. it can sort of get stuck and hangs the whole system. It doset close the menu if you click out side of the menu item. I have to hit the escape key a few times and try other things and eventually it frees up16:53
st__does maverick support unicode usernames now?16:56
st__and what a stupid design decision was to make installation parallel, now even mouse is irresponsible while it copies filse16:57
penguin42st__: Hmm interesting - I thought it was a great decision; for me the mouse isn't stuck - however you should report the bug about the mouse being stuck during the installation16:58
Alanst__: are you running on a single-core/single-thread CPU?16:58
AlanI found it to be laggy in virtualbox with only 1 virtual CPU, i should imagine it would be less so on a machine that can run more than 1 thread simultaneously...16:59
penguin42it needs to be niced right down16:59
penguin42or maybe not run in parallel on low spec machines17:00
Alanit makes sense if you assume at the very least a single-core hyperthreading machine17:00
Alan(i.e. a netbook)17:00
penguin42is the installer still ubiquity?17:00
st__it's called ubuquity in launchpad17:01
st__and the language list at first screen is unsorted17:02
penguin42st__: Report them17:02
lubuntu_userrrrAre there any plans to update maverick's openoffice to 3.3 when it is released?17:08
st__of course not17:09
penguin42lubuntu_userrrr: I doubt it at this stage17:09
st__the freese was last month17:09
lubuntu_userrrrI mean after the maverick's release - as a post release update?17:10
st__no, the app versions are final17:10
penguin42lubuntu_userrrr: I doubt it, you normally get a particular version in a release and it sticks with it17:10
lubuntu_userrrrUsually ubuntu devs do not update major releases of openoffice (3.2.1->3.3), They do only small updates (3.2.1->3.2.2), but office workers sometimes really need these new versions. Sometimes it is even showstopper - like the fixed copy-paste in cyrillic for 3.3.17:12
lubuntu_userrrrI really hope that openooffice goes into the "app repository" and it becomes active during the maverick cycle.17:13
Dr_WillisOpenoffice.. people either seem to Live in it... or never use it.. :)17:13
penguin42Dr_Willis: No I don't think that's true17:15
penguin42Dr_Willis: I think there are the people who never use it, the people who just write an occasional letter, people who read other peoples docs/presentations and then the guys who actively write big docs/presentations17:16
lubuntu_userrrrDr_Willis: for me it is either OpenOffice, or MS Office. Or unemployment :-(17:16
Dr_WillisLast i used it was... to make Rummage Sale Signs :)   i Did use the Ubuntu Font  to show my Ubuntu suport.17:16
Dr_WillisWhat is the size of Openoffice on the cd now?    That 'fits on a cd' goal - is getting very tight.17:17
Dr_Willis!info openoffice17:17
ubottuPackage openoffice does not exist in maverick17:17
lubuntu_userrrrThe first thing I do after installing ubuntu is "sudo apt-get install openoffice.org"17:17
st__ubuntu has no light text editor sadly, so we are forced into OO.o bagamuth17:18
Dr_WillisErr.. its installed by default?17:18
Dr_Willislightweight word processor. i tend to use abiword.17:18
st__abiword is buggy abandoned mess17:19
penguin42st__: Well there is gedit/gnome-text-editor17:19
magnetronst__: no lightweight text editor, are you serious?17:19
penguin42st___: But I guess you mean something more than really a text editor17:19
lubuntu_userrrrPlenty of lightwight editors -emacs, vim, abiword, gedit, nano...17:19
st__gedit has no formatting/styles capabilities17:19
Dr_Williswhats why i said word processor....17:19
magnetrongeser: no, but it has text editor capabilities...17:20
Dr_Williscant say ive noticed any issues with abiword.. but i tend to use it even less then i use openoffice theser days17:20
st__all rats jumped the abiword ship so it's bugs never'll get fixed or functionality improved17:21
gesermagnetron: huh? wrong highlight?17:21
lubuntu_userrrrDr_Willis: Abi is fine for a simple letters, but complex formatting tends to breake the files. Not always, but it happens.17:21
Dr_WillisI recall on BeOS (somehow) their text editor could do formating and color/fonts.. still not sure  how they did that.17:21
magnetrongeser: soz17:21
Dr_Willisand the text files were still simple text files. :)17:21
st__You cannot print something in monospaced font with broken left edge and say it's a document17:22
st__*right edge17:22
Dr_WillisYes you can,.. did so for years in college.. when we had typewriters..17:22
* Dr_Willis recalls a high tech typewriter that actually had a parallel port and could work as a printer17:23
penguin42Dr_Willis: I had a typewriter where there was a kit that got soldered across the keyboard matrix to give it serial17:23
Dr_Willispenguin42:  i was going to mention that.. but i figured no one would belive me...17:23
Dr_Willispenguin42:  i recall seeingt the kits.. but never made one.17:24
penguin42Dr_Willis: We ran one at my Dads chemist shop for a few years printing labels17:24
Dr_WillisBack when 'fonts' came on fancy 'wheels' or 'balls' you put in the typewriter17:24
Dr_Willispenguin42:  i Still have a few 100000 dot matrix address label box's :) but no printer to use them in17:25
Dr_Willisthey dont feed to good into my laser.17:25
st__and why there's no console text editor with text selection or menus?17:25
lubuntu_userrrrst__: emacs17:26
penguin42st__: The problem there is you have to choose what file format to edit17:27
Dr_Willisst__:  'fits on a single cd' limit is why theres none by default.17:27
Dr_Willisthere are some decent console text eitors out other then vi and emacs. :) 'efte' (or fte) is nice. i recall another that was sort of a clone of the old dos edit. but i forget its name.17:28
st__btw installer hanged lol17:28
st__i would send bugreport if knew what to report17:29
charlie-tcaDr_Willis: I still have an old okidata 180 printer; uses the continuous feed paper17:30
Dr_Willischarlie-tca:  i think i have a printer or 2 around.. but finding ribbons these days. :) actually im not even sure which printers i have - even have a parallel port any more either17:30
* penguin42 has an FX-80 over there --->17:31
Dr_Willisgood old 'epson'17:31
charlie-tcaI hand wound the last two ribbons17:31
Dr_Willisall the big name companies i rembner... and now where are they.17:31
penguin42Dr_Willis: Well Epson is still fairly big in printers17:31
st__epson still does expensive printers17:32
Dr_Willisits amazing how cheap they can make printers these days also.17:33
Dr_Willismy First laser printer $400, last one i got.. under $8017:33
* penguin42 must buy a new printer, the current one is nearly out of toner17:33
Dr_WillisThis one is still on the 'demo' toner.. it said it was out after 400 pages.. but aparently theres this clear window.. you put black tape over it.. and viola its still printing17:34
penguin42what does the window do?17:35
Dr_Willisits a sight glass to show if toner is low it seems.. laser or somthing shines through it inside..17:36
Dr_Willisone on each side of the toner cart.17:36
AlanHmm, that's interesting17:36
Alanthe responsiveness sucks during the formatting phase of the install17:37
Dr_Willisyes. i though it seemed odd.. and very.. picky.. the thing still had toner in it.. and it said it was empty after i had cleaned a jam.17:37
Alanbut it's fine through the rest...17:37
st__i thought installer does log everything in vt4, but it doesn't in this version...17:38
Dr_Willisinstaller was spamming 'usb somthing not found...' over and over when i installed.. and booted..  a update/upgrade fixed it however.17:42
Dr_Willisand i dident even have extra usb gizmos plugged in.17:42
ubottuHi! Welcome to #ubuntu+1! Feel free to ask questions and help people out. The channel guidelines are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines . Enjoy your stay!17:44
st__and i even cannot type my city name17:45
st__because keyboard is english and cannot be switched17:46
Dr_WillisIt actually guessed  where i was at and got it right.. well close.17:46
st__it didn't for me17:47
st__because get gmt from net and subtract it from local time is so f... difficult17:47
Dr_WillisHere in Indiana this one state has like 3 (or more) places in differnt timezones.. heh17:48
penguin42Dr_Willis: Yeh but that's a bug in the state legislature....17:49
Dr_WillisIts a bug in peoples brains...17:49
penguin42Dr_Willis: Which package.....17:49
Dr_WillisOne county in the Middle of the state decided to not  switch timezones.. :)17:49
Dr_WillisI can at least understand the places near Chichago wanting to stay on Chichago time.,17:50
Dr_Willisor  other places near major cities that dont change.17:50
Dr_Williswell night all.. 3rd shift worker here.. its bed time17:52
DonSliceWhen I run guake from the terminal, it works as expected... but opening guake through the menu causes it to strip colours and mess up formatting, and will not allow me to run console programs (mocp, testdisk, etc). Anyone have an idea what's going on?17:57
gnomefreakDonSlice: something like that you really should file a bug17:58
DonSliceHm. Okay... thanks18:00
st__lol suddently installer lost its GTK theme18:01
bdogghey, does anyone know how to use tags in chrome dev, to enable extra features?18:02
bdogglike in how you do in windows18:02
Alanthe software center no longer searches package names18:05
Alanit did in Lucid18:05
st__OK it hanged for a second time18:06
badpWhat package should I file keyboard bugs against?18:06
badp(Using the volume control on my external keyboard stops left clicks from being registered until I plug out the external keyboard.)18:07
badp(oh, and hello.)18:07
gnomefreakdepends on where the bug is but i would say either ubuntu or gnome-applets18:07
AlanAlso, why does ubuntu insist on shipping with that the horrible "slight" subpixel hinting enabled?18:07
badpso I'll issue "ubuntu-bug gnome-applets"?18:07
Alanit's UGLY ugly UGLY!!18:08
gnomefreakbadp: yes without the "18:08
bdogghow do i register my nickname on empathy18:08
gnomefreakbdogg: for what?18:09
bdoggon IRC18:09
bdoggon here18:09
bdogghow do i register18:09
gnomefreak!freenode | bdogg18:09
ubottubdogg: freenode is the IRC network that you're on! See http://freenode.net/faq.shtml. freenode has policies that govern how people should use the network which can be read at http://freenode.net/policy.shtml. The ubuntu channels on freenode also have their own !guidelines18:09
gnomefreakit has nothing to do with the client18:10
bdoggthe ./msg command says its not recongnized18:10
gnomefreakbdogg: its the .18:10
bdoggim following the intructions here :http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup18:10
gnomefreakremove the . from it18:10
bdoggyeah i know aobut the period18:10
bdoggi did it to show you guys18:11
gnomefreakthan why dod you put it there. what reason for it?18:11
bdoggi though it would show up as a command if i didnt18:11
gnomefreakyou can show us /msg bleh18:11
bdoggwhen i type "/msg" i get this "Unknown command; see /help for the available commands"18:12
gnomefreakbdogg: did you run /msg nickserv register password email?18:12
gnomefreakbdogg: you do that once you are logged on with the name you want to use18:13
gnomefreakbdogg: /msg alone does nothing18:13
bdoggyeah, it just doesn’t recognize the /msg command i guess18:13
gnomefreakbdogg: /msg does not hold anything you need to use it with options.18:14
bdoggnot working with options either18:14
gnomefreakbdogg: just type /msg nickserv register password email18:14
gnomefreaktype that replace password with the one you want and replace email will your email address18:15
bdoggOutput: Unknown command; see /help for the available commands18:15
gnomefreakbdogg: for further help please see #freenode18:15
bdoggIs it because im using Empathy IM?18:15
gnomefreakthe client has *nothing* to do with freenode commands18:16
mikebeechamhi guys...I was thinking about upgrading to Maverick....has the X crash issue been sorted now?18:16
mikebeechamlast time I tried, X was crashing, and I had to reinstall18:16
bdoggoh okay i got it18:16
gnomefreakmikebeecham: ati crash is still around or is new nvidia-current should be fixed18:16
mikebeechamI'm using nvidia18:17
JoshuaLno problems with nvidia here :)18:17
gnomefreakmikebeecham: could have used TTY instead of reinstalling18:17
mikebeechamand have installed 195.36.2418:17
mikebeechamgnome, not that competant on that side of things18:17
gnomefreakmikebeecham: well your crash means nothing. you need to file a bug report on it18:17
mikebeechamI did go into tty and try to resolve it18:17
gnomefreakmikebeecham: that is not the fixed version18:17
mikebeechamdont worry about the crash now, that was a couple of weeks ago18:18
mikebeechamall is good18:18
mikebeechambut before I go ahead, I want to ensure the X issue is resolved18:18
JoshuaLwhen i change from channel in xchat it lags :(18:18
tracy69hello when trying to  boot ubuntu im getting just command prompt and when startx im getting message no screens found how to sort it out ???18:19
gnomefreakmikebeecham: fixed nvidia-current is 256.53-0ubuntu118:19
mikebeechamcool gnomefreak thanks18:19
gnomefreakmikebeecham: depends on what X issue you are thinking of. the ABI is fixed18:19
gnomefreaktracy69: nvidia?18:20
mikebeechamnot sure...when it happend I used my windows machine to get into this channel, and the X Issue was part of the channel topic, so I guess it was pretty bad18:20
gnomefreakmikebeecham: that is fixed18:20
mikebeechamgnomefreak, great18:21
gnomefreakmikebeecham: it was trransition into x 1.9 that caused the ABI to be read when it should have been ignored18:21
tracy69i know i need to fix xorg dont know how18:21
mikebeechamthen I will upgrade with confidence18:21
gnomefreaktracy69: another user had this issue yesterday i asked him to file bug but i dont recall igf he did. please filea  bug18:21
bdogghave they fixed the issue with gdeb get?18:22
gnomefreaktracy69: not something you can do on your own18:22
tracy69file bug?18:22
gnomefreakbdogg: never heard of an issue with gdeb18:22
gnomefreaktracy69: yes file a bug report18:22
tracy69u file bug i want to boot up ubuntu18:22
tracy69and how i have to file bug if i cant boot up ubuntu ?18:23
bdoggyeah on beta, at least for me, i cant intall debs with the gdeb, only through dkg -i command18:23
tracy69file bug form command prompt?18:23
gnomefreaktracy69: well you should have another operating system other than maverick18:23
Ian_corneor the know-how to fix this :p18:23
tracy69well heheheh they say on youtube ubuntu is better than windows and you asking me i should have other OS ?18:24
gnomefreakif you cant file a bug do not use devel versions of ubuntu18:24
gnomefreaktracy69: thyan install lucid and stick with that18:24
bdoggyeah but you are using the beta18:24
bdoggits GOING to be buggy18:24
Ian_corneI sense troll18:24
gnomefreakbdogg: i have 6 PCs18:24
tracy69youre very helpfull heheheheh gnomefreak18:25
bdogg:gnomefreak why are you telling me this?18:25
gnomefreakeach with 2 hard drives, i have a few back up PCs18:25
gnomefreaki wasnt18:25
gnomefreaki was telling tracy69 since he/she decided to put maverck on a production box18:25
gnomefreakwith out a back up18:25
penguin42tracy69: Just stick with the release version until you get experienced18:26
tracy69penguin42,  so youre experienced18:26
tracy69tell me how to sort it out18:26
gnomefreakX will be fixed around the time maverick is released18:26
Ian_cornetracy69: apt-get source xorg18:26
gnomefreakIan_corne: oh that will help him18:27
Ian_corneIf he wants it fixed now18:27
gnomefreakwhat is he going to do with the source?18:27
Ian_corneat this moment18:27
Ian_corneand not file a bug report18:27
Ian_cornehe'll have to code :D18:27
gnomefreakIan_corne: he acnt use a terminal where does that make you think he can fix the source than rebuild it18:28
gnomefreakif you cant file a bug reinstall lucid18:28
Ian_cornegnomefreak: i know, i was just trolling him back18:28
tracy69Ian_corne,  what are you talking about ?18:28
gnomefreakok look X is broken for people, it will be fixed as fast as it can however if your bug is different than normal X bug you need to file one or hope it gets fixed by release. this is not something you can fix18:30
gnomefreakif you feel that is too hard or dont want to wait install lucid and wait until final release of maverick18:30
gnomefreakas long as you can boot into a TTY you can do upgrades18:31
gnomefreakbut do not expect it to be fixed now18:31
Alan.... is it me, or do you not get asked for a computer name any more?18:32
gnomefreakoh and btw you can always use vesa if you knwo what you are doing18:32
gnomefreakAlan: i did18:32
gnomefreaklast week but i did18:32
Rods_TigerI?m installing meerkat from a live usb and I?ve pressed ?forward? at ?preparing to install ubuntu? and nothing happens18:35
charlie-tcaAlan: depends on which image you use.18:36
Alancharlie-tca: the desktop image18:38
charlie-tcaDon't think it does ask.18:38
gnomefreakRods_Tiger: sounds like a md5 mismatch18:38
AlanI always always change mine, so the only thing i can think of is that i wasn't prompet.d...18:38
Alanwhich is a bit crap... why take that out?18:39
Alanespecially when it's NOT a simple thing to change for any random user18:39
gnomefreakthey can not remove the computername choice. it has to be something you choose18:39
gnomefreakyou can choose even18:40
Alangnomefreak: well it doesn't appear to be any more...18:40
gnomefreakAlan: are you sure the md5 matches? you used a usb right?18:41
gnomefreakthere are a bunch of bugs on it as of bate release18:41
gnomefreakbeta even18:41
Alanyes, but i think "omitted from the UI" isn't a bug, it's a flawed design choice18:41
Alanit's not asked for in the installer at all18:42
gnomefreakwhat makes you think it was removed on purpose?18:42
Alanbecause it's not the kind of thing you accidentally remove?18:42
gnomefreakthe cd and dvd images still have it18:42
Alanfunny, i just got the beta CD image18:42
Alanand created a USB installer from it18:42
Alansince it's using the same installer18:43
Alanit's the same UI18:43
gnomefreakand yet i tell you usb installers are broken18:43
Alangnomefreak: in what possible way can a USB vs. non-USB installer cause a field to be missing from the installer UI?18:43
gnomefreakyou should really look up the bugs in LP18:43
Alanit's the same program18:43
Alanalso, installing from the CD didn't show it either18:44
gnomefreakAlan: you are not using usb creater?18:44
Alan(using the ISO in a virtual machine)18:44
Alangnomefreak: i am using USB creator18:44
gnomefreakAlan: and i just finnished telling you it is broken18:44
gnomefreakwhat part of that do you not understand18:45
gnomefreakit is not the same image as a normal one18:45
Alangnomefreak: and i just finished attempting to tell you that the kind of bug i'm describing is something that cannot possibly be due to what you are saying18:45
gnomefreakhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/627672 may or may not be your bug18:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 627672 in Canonical HWE Popular "[Maverick Beta] install from USB stuck retrieving files 2/6 Hp Mini" [Undecided,New]18:46
gnomefreakyou need to look at teh bugs since it is a good chance yours has been reported already18:46
Alangnomefreak: absolutely not18:46
gnomefreakAlan: hint... start looking through the bugs18:46
gnomefreakif you cant find one report one. this is something that needs to be fixed if it is not a local bug18:48
gnomefreakwho was it with guake bug?18:50
gnomefreakoh well i had bad new for him anyway18:52
Alangnomefreak: btw, why on earth are you so insistent that it's a usbcreator bug even though I said it exists in the CD installer too?18:52
gnomefreakAlan: because it is still there on the text installer18:52
Alan... that's got absolutely nothing to do with it18:52
gnomefreakAlan: both installers are the same in the aspect of naming a pc18:53
Alanno, both installers use the same default name18:53
Alanthat says absolutely nothing about whether or not they should act the same18:53
Alanin terms of what they ask you18:53
Alanthe alternate installer and ubiquity are different programs18:54
Alannow running ubiquity from the CD and from the USB drive are exactly the same thing18:54
Alanthe problem isn't in creating a USB installer18:54
Alanthe problem is in ubiquity18:54
gnomefreakAlan: what is the default name of it and why dont you just change it. my default with Ubuntu i changed it as always during the installer18:54
Alangnomefreak: and so do i18:54
gnomefreakAlan: you dont think one is the same as other just with UI?18:55
Alanmy point is, which you've somehow completely missed, is that IT DOESNT ASK YOU IN THE INSTALLER ANY MORE18:55
gnomefreakyou do know that the background for both is d-i18:55
kklimondaseriously, wtf? It takes 10 seconds to switch between virtual desktops o.O18:55
Alangnomefreak: do you write software? at all?18:55
gnomefreakAlan: i do not in last month but yes18:55
kklimonda/b 1018:55
Alangnomefreak: then your naivity is really quite surprising18:56
gnomefreakAlan: i am also a mozilla maintainer18:56
Alanmatters not one bit that they share a backend18:56
charlie-tcaAlan: Then it is a bug18:56
Alanif the UI is different, the UI is different18:56
gnomefreakAlan: the base of all the installers are d-i18:56
Alangnomefreak: that still doesn't imply that what's in the alternate installer will be in the GTK installer18:57
Alanthe GTK installer has always been different in one way or another18:57
gnomefreakfile a bug, but you are missing the point. the problem you are having you should have across all installers18:57
Alancharlie-tca: i hope so - given my experience with this release so far, i'm worried it might be a design choice18:57
gnomefreakthe UI is not anything but a UI18:57
gnomefreakit is a bug not a feature18:58
Alangnomefreak: no, you're missing the point, there is nothing that implies that it should be the same in both installers18:58
Alanapart from the two being developed in parallel to hopefully have the same features18:58
gnomefreakAlan: both installers give the same options one is just prettier than the other18:58
Alangnomefreak: but i've just categorically proved that they don't both give the same options18:58
Alangnomefreak: do yourself a favour, actually run through both installers side-by-side18:59
gnomefreakAlan: becasue on ehas the bug and the other doesnt?18:59
charlie-tcagnomefreak: did they stop using ubiquity for the desktop cd?18:59
Alangnomefreak: for what you say to be correct, both UIs would have to be generated from the same definition19:00
Alanthey can't be if one is missing stuff that the other one has19:00
gnomefreakAlan: ncurses and ubiquity are different and always will be but that is where the differences start the engine for both is d-i19:01
AlanYou appear to be using the alternate CD and assuming that everything you see is the same in the desktop CD19:01
Alangnomefreak: and what makes you think that in any way enforces what's in the UI?19:01
Alanit doesn't19:01
gnomefreakAlan: nope didnt say that. what i said was it is abug nothing bore19:01
kklimondais it really?19:02
gnomefreaki have never had a UI give me choices. i have only seen a ui give you a choice being pretty19:02
Alanfor somebody who's apparently a "mozilla maintainer" you're full of shit19:02
AlanI'm going to report a bug against ubiquity19:02
Alanand hope to god it's not a feature19:03
gnomefreakmight really want to pick a better choice of words19:03
Alani might19:03
IdleOne!guidelines | Alan19:03
ubottuAlan: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines19:03
Alanbut you're kinda pissing me off19:03
AlanYeah yeah, i know19:03
gnomefreakAlan: i told you to start with "file a bug"19:03
Alanlets keep it clean and friendly19:03
IdleOneAlan: then I suggest you step back from the computer and relax but don't take it out on us19:03
AlanIdleOne: just on the person that's perpetuating it19:04
Alanbut anyway19:04
Alanaway from here with me19:04
* Alan -> somewhere else, via launchpad19:04
vishAlan: did you follow the installer fully? :)  it asks the user name but only later.19:09
vishafter we select the install now..19:09
Alanvish: yes i did, but wehre it asks for username, it doesn't ask for the hostname19:09
Alanit doesn't ask for the hostname anywhere19:09
Alanit just uses <username>-laptop19:09
vishhmm , host name!19:09
* vish tries to remember19:09
Alani've been through the beta installer 4 times now19:10
Alanonce from USB, twice from CD19:10
vishyeah , maybe not asked.. i cant remember either..19:10
Alanevery time, it's used the default hostname without any chance to change it19:10
st__installer background looks crap, will it be fixed in dinal version?19:18
kklimondaAlan: I don't think it's a bug, rather a design choice19:26
Alankklimonda: yeah, that kind annoys me19:27
kklimondayou can use text installer if you need more control19:27
Alankklimonda: but it's one damned field19:27
Alanwhat was wrong with the way the lucid installer did it?19:27
Alanit's there, pre-filled to the default19:27
Alannow everybody has no choice but to go around with computers called alan-laptop and fred-laptop and ... etc. etc.19:28
Alanespecially because there is no user-friendly way to change it after installation19:28
st__that's happens when people do something for free19:28
penguin42Alan: Hmm that's a fair bug to add19:29
kklimondaAlan: I'm pretty sure that they will add an easy way of changing it after installation with time.19:29
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
penguin42Alan: Of course the fun is when you have your next laptop which is also called dave-laptop19:29
yofelwhat are you talking about? hostname?19:29
Alanpenguin42: can't wait to see what that does to a windows network :P19:29
Alanyofel: yes19:29
AlanWinXP machine: "But... they're the same computer because they have the same name!"19:30
Alanit just seems like a really really stupid thing to remove19:30
penguin42Alan: The local avahi stuff resolves itself and adds numbers I think19:30
Alansince it's absolutely zero effort or clutter to keep19:30
kklimondaAlan: it's a clutter19:31
* penguin42 used to work with a testing farm with about 10 macs in close contact all with the same install name19:31
kklimondait's also an additional choice for new users to ponder about19:31
Alanpenguin42: fun19:31
Alankklimonda: but it's not much of a choice19:31
Alanthe default is there for you19:31
Alanhow about  think - put an expander in with "advanced options"19:31
kklimondaAlan: but it's a text input, you have to process it and decide whether the default option is the right one19:32
Alankklimonda: so?19:32
penguin42Alan: I'd suggest under System->Administration an 'About this computer' in the same way that there is an About Me under Preferences19:32
AlanGah, at this rate installing windows 7 is going to require more competence with a computer19:32
kklimondaAlan: so we don't want that.19:32
Alanand that's not a compliment :P19:32
AlanYou don't want anybody to have to think about anything, that's fair enough19:32
AlanI think i'm going to have to hop distro soon though, you're getting the same problem as Windows - the easier you make it for the idiot, the more frustrating you make it for the non-idiot19:33
kklimondaAlan: you have a text installer19:33
st__if you're copycatting windows 7 installer, you should at least to think why things are there as they are19:34
kklimondait's just as debian's with all choices left to you19:34
Alankklimonda: sure, but the text installer doesn't get so much love....19:34
Alanand doesn't get so much ubuntu magic19:34
Alaneh, i'm ranting now19:34
Alan(I don't think that computers should be made more accessible, i think people should have to learn to use them - it's just like turning cars into a machine with a "go" and "stop" button, and the only requirement for using one is that you have a moving body part)19:35
AlanOk, a bit of an exaggeration19:35
AlanBut oh well19:35
kklimondaAlan: but that's not a reality we live in.19:35
Alankklimonda: so you can do one of two things19:36
kklimondaAlan: some believe that access to the internet should only be granted after you pass some tests19:36
Alansome believe it shouldn't be granted at all19:36
AlanThe question is really how far you want to go to expand your userbase19:36
zniavre_good evening19:37
AlanI won't deny that you're making it easier and easier19:37
zniavre_does your sound-indicator let you srcoll with mouse ?19:37
kklimondaAlan: but you make it sound like we forget about more experienced users so we can reach more casual ones.19:37
Alanbut for me i think Ubuntu peaked a couple of releases ago in my own personal usefulness/friendliness tradeoff :P19:37
st__they don't have brains to make it easier, they're making it worse instead19:37
kklimondast__: and what do you dislike about the current installer?19:38
Alankklimonda: it feels that way, it seems the prevailing attitude is "well pros can sort it out for themselves anyway"19:38
AlanI like being able to set my hostname in the installer19:38
kklimondaAlan: but that's the idea, isn't it? Pro can install from alternate cd and even go with ubuntu-minimal package set19:38
penguin42are ppa's launchpad or soyuz ?19:39
magnetronAlan: you don't use the 'alternate' disc?19:39
Alankklimonda: but that's all-or-nothing19:39
penguin42kklimonda: It's a pity that it's such a big choice19:39
Alankklimonda: what's actually happening is "pros" are missing one or two things each release19:39
st__because I'm fucking with it for 3 hours already trying to install os19:39
kklimondast__: and its because of choices made to installer or because of some bug?19:40
magnetroni just compile Linux myself during install - makes me the biggest PRO ever19:40
Alanalso, what's the point in supporting multitouch without supporting actual tablets?19:40
IdleOne!language | st__19:40
ubottust__: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.19:40
kklimondawe aren't supporting tablets? Don't we have wacom drivers?19:40
Alanthat's getting on my nerves.... i still need to find out if you now have a version of xorg-input-wacom that doesn't segfault X if i rotate my screen...19:40
st__IdleOne, are you some !language bot?19:40
Alankklimonda: yes you have wacom drivers, but it looks like nobody actually tested them in Lucid19:41
IdleOnest__: no, I'm a member of this community and I would like you to follow our community guidelines19:41
st__god, the slideshow has a scrollbar because it clipped in install window19:42
Alanbugreport :p19:42
kklimondaAlan: meh, you exaggerate - the driver has been tested but the only way to make sure it works with your hardware is to test it yourself and report bugs.19:42
kklimondaAlan: there is way too much hardware for us to test every piece of it in every combination :/19:43
st__and fancy gtk theme has gone and it looks like windows9519:44
st__and I have to launch Bloatfox to submit a bug on launchpad19:45
kklimondast__: and the reason you are saying it here in this form is because...?19:46
IdleOnekklimonda: because people who can, do. People who can't, whine about it.19:46
Alankklimonda: yeah, i know19:53
Alankklimonda: i should imagine this segfault happens for pretty much every tablet laptop though19:53
Alanseeming as they all have the same digitiser in them19:53
penguin42bug 57506619:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 575066 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in XIChangeDeviceProperty()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57506619:54
Alanlike that19:54
Alanthanks :)19:54
Alani think it'll probably be fine19:55
AlanIIRC i tested it in F13, and fedora's always syncs slightly newer stuff, and it worked...19:56
penguin42Alan: You could try xorg-edgers to see if it's fixed; also looking at the xf86-input-wacom there is a load of switchable debug stuff that might give more, I don't know if the ubuntu package has it turned on or not and if so how you enable it19:58
penguin42Permission Denied20:00
yofelmeh -.-20:00
Alanpenguin42: i did20:01
penguin42Alan: Still broken?20:02
Alanpenguin42: it was20:02
AlanOh god... why can't linux decide on a hardware abstraction layer....20:03
penguin42Alan: I actually think it's good HAL is on the way out20:03
kklimondapenguin42: and you are saying that as a programmer? :)20:04
Alanpenguin42: oh, i'm sure there are good reasons for it20:04
penguin42kklimonda: No - as a user - I could never figure out how to kick the damn thing in the right way; having both HAL and Udev suddenly getting in the way was too much!20:05
Alanbut the fact it keeps changing all the time means that old guides don't work any more20:05
Alanespecially for things that not many people do20:05
kklimondapenguin42: for developers an ever changing Linux landscape is a horror20:06
Alani mean, i HATE the round-trip from xorg.conf -> HAL -> udev -> xorg.conf that ubuntu has done over the last 4 releases20:06
Alanit's crap20:06
penguin42kklimonda: Oh I agree; I've had to maintain software that had to work on multiple distros20:06
penguin42we're not back at xorg.conf are we?20:06
penguin42since when?20:06
Alanlike, it gets merged with the automagic stuff now somehow20:07
penguin42Alan: Always has done20:07
Alanand xorg.conf.d or whatever we now have too20:07
Alanbut i've had one simple thing to do that's required a different hack for each of the 4 most recent ubuntu releases20:07
penguin42Alan: The merging has always happened ever since it went automagic; I've had to do it on this machine because it never recognised my external monitor20:07
Alanwhich is remapping one of my mouse buttons20:07
Alanyeah, automagic xorg really got on my nerves20:08
penguin42Alan: I'm actually glad it gets most of it right for me and I only have to fix one bit20:08
Alangreat idea, but in practice it's taken about 5 years to stop having to hack around it all the damn time20:08
Alanpenguin42: sure, now it does20:08
Alannever used to :|20:08
Alanbut what it did at the same time was make it really difficult to set things manually...20:09
penguin42anyway, time to switch brain off and watch a film20:10
Alanmy favourite20:10
kklimondaAlan: can't you just create xorg.conf as always?20:10
Alanbroken Xorg, no log to say why...20:10
Alankklimonda: in my experience for quite a while most of the useful stuff was ignored or didn't quite work right..20:10
st__sound is stattering lol20:10
kklimondaAlan: hmm, it shouldn't20:11
kklimondast__: report a bug20:11
st__against what?20:11
Alannow what...20:11
kklimondast__: ubuntu-bug audio from terminal20:12
st__and I still cannot remove evolution unless all gnome desktop will be gone... fricking unix way20:33
kklimondast__: how do you do it?20:34
kklimondawhy can't you just remove evolution package? what else are you trying to remove?20:35
st__by removing evolution and related stuff20:35
st__like evolution-data-server and similar crap20:35
kklimondast__: it's part of GNOME20:36
* undifined hands Alan a sweet latte, relax a bit20:36
kklimondast__: why can't you just remove evolution package? it will pull two others but not half of GNOME20:36
st__why would I have evolution pieces everywhere if I don't use it?20:37
kklimondast__: why not?20:37
kklimondaare you running low on disk space?20:37
kklimondast__: other gnome components depend on parts of evolution - for example are linking against some of its libraries. you can't just remove those libraries without pulling apps20:38
st__and of course gnome developers never heard about dynamic linking... how sad20:39
jfievolution cannot be removed the package is required by ubuntu-desktop......20:39
jfiwhich was the case with lucid20:39
kklimondajfi: in maverick its only recommended20:39
kklimondast__: now you are just trolling, aren't you?20:39
kklimondajfi: in maverick it is - you can remove evolution and the only two other packages that are removed alongside with it are evolution-couchdb and evolution-exchange20:40
jfiyes evolution-data-server and evolution-data-server-common20:41
jfiI cannot remove these 2 packages due to dependence on gnome-desktop-environment20:41
st__lol who would install bogofilter on desktop machine?20:42
kklimondajfi: those two are part of gnome platform20:42
kklimondajfi: and not just a dependency of evolution20:42
kklimondast__: people who use it with evolution to fight spam?20:43
st__spam is filtered on mail server, not a client machine20:43
charlie-tcast__: what if I don't own a mail server?20:44
charlie-tcaI don't actually need one with Ubuntu20:44
st__all mail providers do spam filtering... or you think each ubuntu user runs mailserver on his machine?20:45
kklimondast__: all? really? you sure of it?20:45
charlie-tcabut that does not mean ALL spam is filtered, does it?20:45
charlie-tcaI need that provider if all spam is filtered by them20:47
FoolsRunHi, The Maverick UNE installer is stuck at "Retreiving file 2 of 6". Has been for 20min. Anyone else seen this?20:47
kklimondaFoolsRun: sounds like a bug I've seen on LP recently..20:47
charlie-tcaFoolsRun: usb?20:47
FoolsRunyes, USB20:47
charlie-tcayes, reported bug20:48
kklimondaFoolsRun: bug 62767220:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 627672 in Canonical HWE Popular "[Maverick Beta] install from USB stuck retrieving files 2/6 Hp Mini" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62767220:48
FoolsRunworkaround, or do I need to reinstall Lucid?20:48
kklimondaFoolsRun: hmm.. I don't think there is any20:50
st__if bogofilter or similar system at provider's site didn't filtered a message, the same locally installed program will be no help; also what is 'erlang' and why it is on my system?20:50
FoolsRunis this a UNE thing or a Maverick thing?20:50
FoolsRunBecause not being able to install it is a pretty serious bug, I'd think20:50
kklimondast__: are you sure you have installed ubuntu the right way if you now go through a package list and wonder about ever signle one of them?20:51
kklimondaFoolsRun: it's a problem with usb installer20:51
kklimondaFoolsRun: already fixed20:51
kklimondast__: erlang is for couchdb20:51
kklimondaand couchdb is part of ubuntuone20:51
FoolsRunkklimonda: but I probably can't create an installer using the fix, right?20:51
st__i wonder why default install from livecd contains so much garbage instead of codecs or language packs, for example20:52
kklimondast__: it's not a garbage because you say so20:52
kklimondaFoolsRun: you could unpack the installer image and tweak some config files.. and then repack the image yourself..20:52
kklimondaFoolsRun: I'm not really sure how to do that though20:53
FoolsRunkklimonda: or wait until release like I should have done ;)20:53
FoolsRunNo problem; my copy of Lucid had been upgraded since Intrepid anyway, this was a good excuse to format and reinstall.20:53
st__dnsmasq is now installed, it's cool20:54
FoolsRunthanks for the info!20:54
kklimondaFoolsRun: yes, it's not yeat in daily images so you have to wait20:54
VolkodavDo we still need the "Ignore ABI" on 256.53 drivers in xorg.conf or not ?21:07
DanaGUbuntuone-client-gnome is garbage, because it spams me with Ubuntu One Disabled in every single folder in my home dir!21:08
DanaGIt's a big waste of space.21:08
DanaGand there's no "go the **** away" button on that banner.21:08
=== Blizzzek is now known as Blizzz
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== nhandler1 is now known as nhandler
=== nhandler is now known as Guest53292
kklimondaDanaG: and it's a bug21:21
durthey folks, just lost right click on my synaptics clickpad on upgrade to MM, anyone here tell me about what patches are in the kernel and what the state of things are right now in respect to workarounds?21:21
=== tm__ is now known as tm
DanaGWhat's the bug?  The lack of "go away"?21:28
=== Guest53292 is now known as nhandler
jenkinsis it me or has mavrick got so much faster in the last few days?21:30
DanaGdurt: I have a 3-button touchpad, and the clickpad support breaks that, too!21:31
DanaGAnd I can't drag anything, either!21:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 612591 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] Kernel treats 3-button touchpad as 1-button ClickPad" [Undecided,New]21:32
durtDanaG, ya, just read that, any up to date info, I'm finding may-july stuff...21:33
kklimondaDanaG: it shouldn't show in every folder - only in some of them21:33
DanaGOr rather, it's showing in most folders under home.21:34
DanaGBut there's no "leave me alone!" button.21:34
DanaGI had to actually remove ubuntuone-client-gnome to kill the damn banner.21:34
=== billybigrigger_ is now known as billybigrigger
durtDanaG, strangely changing the mouse settings to 'lefty' switches the whole surface touch-click to right click (context menu).21:37
DanaGNice.  Not.21:38
durtDanaG, using netbook remix or whatever it's called now, or desktop?21:44
DanaGI'm using desktop, since netbook remix is 100% unusable for me.21:44
DanaGThe menu never finishes drawing, and if I vt-switch, it just sits there completely blank white.21:44
durtme too, wonder if this affects both.21:45
DanaGYeah, it's Nautilus everywhere.21:45
durter, sorry. If the synaptics issue affects both (kernel issue), or a config issue.21:46
joonaDoes anyone have trouble getting wlan to work with maverick?21:53
BUGabundobRoas Noites21:54
durtjoona, no probs with my broadcom card, your card?21:56
joonai guess21:56
Karen_mI upgraded to 10.10 and upon a reboot I received:  error: the symbol `grub_xputs` not found.     I am googling on how to resolve this, but I just wanted to let others know to have a LIVE CD HANDY21:57
joonaKaren_m: Is your Grub version 2.0 or 1.521:58
Karen_mwhatever the update-manager --devel-release gave me21:58
Karen_mI am unable to check as all i see is ; grub rescue>21:58
Karen_mi think the problem was caused because I had a usb stick plugged in when I ran upgrade maybe?  who knows21:59
joonaWhat's in the USB stick?21:59
Karen_mjust an ext4 partition, my files21:59
undifinedimportant ones ?21:59
Karen_mit's going to be a livecd here in 4 minutes22:00
joonayou may find http://go.neti.us/aykqu4 helpful (or the comments)22:00
joonaTry to open BIOS settings, then check the boot order22:01
Karen_mi never changed anything, and it worked before.  I will try and guess which drive maverick is on22:03
joonado you have a dual-boot?22:04
Karen_mwin7 and ubuntu22:04
joonaoh well22:04
joonathat may cause this22:04
joonathe ubuntu might be in hd0,022:04
Volkodavi am just going to remove this ignore ABi and see what happens22:04
joonaVolkodav: what are you trying to do?22:06
Karen_mwell, windows is ch2 :)  i know that by luck22:06
joonaso which one would be ubuntu22:07
Karen_mi thought uuid took care of all this22:07
Karen_mi gotta reboot and keep trying22:07
Karen_m4 drives22:07
Karen_m3 are ubuntu22:07
Volkodavtrying to see if i still need the ignore ABi  fix on 256.5322:07
joonaKaren_m: Try to boot the ubuntu which is recovery mode or then the latest one if it's about kernels22:08
Karen_mchanging the boot order had no effect, going to livecd it :)22:10
joonaNow, I need some help. WLAN/internet doesn't work on Maverick.22:12
henkewhat needs to be installed to get the new sound menu?22:12
joonanew sound menu?22:13
joonahenke, what do you mean by "new sound menu"?22:13
zniavreindicator-sound ?22:13
henkejoona, http://www.ubunturoot.com/2010/07/sound-menu-updates-in-maverick-meerkat.html22:13
henkezniavre, probably, thanks22:14
joonaHey, I'd need some help. Wlan/internet doesn't work on my Ubuntu (maverick)22:14
joonaI got a dual-boot Ubuntu & Kubuntu, and the internet works just fine on the KDE desktop22:15
charlie-tcaAlan: bug 62802722:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 628027 in nova (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Fresh snapshot of Nova" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62802722:16
charlie-tcasorry, bug 62808722:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 628087 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62808722:17
=== forrest`` is now known as forrestv
Alancharlie-tca: damn people reporting bug without the keyword "hostname" :P22:17
charlie-tcareported during ISO testing before release22:18
Alanfair enough22:18
Alani've just marked my bug as duplicate22:19
charlie-tcajoona: are you using ndiswrapper?22:19
joonanever heard of it22:19
joonacharlie-tca, nope, never heard of ndiswrapper22:20
Alanaaah, ndiswrapper22:20
charlie-tcahmm, can't seem to help you, sorry22:20
AlanI haven't seen that word in like... 2 years at least22:20
Alanand very happy about it too22:20
charlie-tcaI don't use wireless here22:20
Alanit's called *always* buying intel chipsets!22:20
joonaI do22:20
AlanBelljoona: so it worked on Lucid?22:21
joonaalabell: Yep22:21
joonaalanbell: But not on Maverick22:21
joonaI got a dualboot KDE and Gnome and the Gnome's internet doesn't work22:21
MarkusTI can no longer use USB devices with VirtualBox PEUL on Maverick (the devices are greyed out when the appliance runs). I'm a member of vboxusers and I can't figure out what changed between Lucid and Maverick. Any ideas?22:22
=== brot_away is now known as brot
AlanBelljoona: built in wireless or a usb dongle?22:22
charlie-tcaMarkusT: could be the kernel updated22:22
AlanBelldo lspci and paste just the line that talks about your wireless adapter22:23
charlie-tcaMarkusT: VBox PEUL for maverick is not yet available, so we are using the version for lucid22:23
MarkusTcharlie-tca: That's correct.22:23
charlie-tcaUsually, if the kernel changes too much, VBox stops working in different areas22:24
charlie-tcaIt catches up around release time22:25
joonaalanbell: Here, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/488930/22:25
AlanBelljoona: ok, I have Atheros AR9285 working just fine in Maverick22:26
joonaThat doesn't help me much22:27
AlanBellcan you pastebin the output of lsmod22:28
Alancharlie-tca: i've added my two cents :p22:28
joonaWhen I try to connect, I starts to connect but says the password is incorrect. Then when I write the correct WEP-key in Hex, it ccan't get an ip22:28
AlanBellsee if the ath9k module is there22:28
AlanBelloh, so it sees the wireless networks?22:29
AlanBelljust can't connect to them?22:29
AlanI hope my comments are coherent and well-expressed22:29
Alanand i REALLY hope they decide to fix that bug22:29
AlanBellok, you are using ath5k (unsurprisingly)22:29
joonaalanbell: Then I've tried doing ifconfig wlan0 down and up, iwconfig wlan0 essid...22:29
Alanbut it's been marked as "low" so it'll probably be ignored and patch-rejected and "omg we're in feature freeze" until people just give up...22:29
AlanBelljoona: does it connect to unsecured wifi? (just to test, not reccommending it long term)22:30
joonaDon't have one22:31
joonaand the Wireless is a..preset one22:31
joonashould I try madwifi?22:31
joonaor ndiswrapper22:32
AlanBellI wouldn't bother personally22:33
AlanBellI would file a bug with the results you have so far22:34
joonaoh well22:34
joonais there a way to..degrade maverick into lucid?22:34
joonaand upgrade when a stable release comes out22:35
AlanBellno, not really22:35
AlanBellfile the bug, or when the stable release comes out it still won't work22:35
Alanthe bit where it says "beta, do not use on production machines" means what it says :P22:35
Alaninstall/test it on something spare22:35
Alanlike a spare disk, spare partition, whatever22:36
joonaway to go me22:36
kklimondahmm, subpixels smoothing slows down my computer considerably..22:36
joonaOh well, I'll just use KDE22:37
Alanis *that*  why it's not enabled by default?22:37
AlanNot sure if i got around to complaining about that earlier22:37
Alanis ubuntu following GNOME defaults for font rendering?22:37
Alaneither way, it's the ugliest possible setting22:37
Alanso glad it's only a few clicks to make it less ugly...22:37
histo!downgrade | joona22:38
ubottujoona: Attempting to downgrade to an older Ubuntu version is explicitly not supported, and may break your system.22:38
AlanBellbug 625692 is about slow internet with ath5k22:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 625692 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] Slow internet with Atheros AR2413" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62569222:38
AlanBellwhich isn't what you are seeing, but could indicate there has been some messing about in that area22:38
cowbudanyone seen an obscene slow down when lots of terminal text goes on in X?22:39
kklimondacowbud: yeah, I've seen it22:39
kklimondacowbud: what's your fonts setting?22:39
AlanBelljoona: do "ubuntu-bug -p linux" as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies22:40
cowbudkklimonda: sub pixel LCDs. unless you are looking for something else..22:40
kklimondacowbud: try changing it some other option - Best Shape or Best Contrast22:41
joonaI'll try that.brb22:41
cowbudkklimonda: do I need to restart for that to take affect or just restart my gnome terminals?22:41
cowbudrestart X that is..22:42
AlanI probably wouldn't notice that bug, i use a bitmap font in terminals...22:42
AlanBelljoona: remember, the reason you are using the beta is so that you can file bugs when things don't work22:42
kklimondacowbud: it should take effect immediately, you can probably close your terminals to be sure22:42
cowbudkklimonda: nah still noticeable slower22:43
Alannow i have rage22:44
kklimondaAlan: isn't it what you've been doing for last two hours or so? ;)22:45
Alankklimonda: atleast22:45
Alankklimonda: but this time, i just found out it's only the GTK GUI for ubiquity that's missing the hostname22:45
Alanthe Qt version has it22:45
cowbudkklimonda: is there a bug filed for this that you know of?22:47
kklimondacowbud: no22:47
kklimondacowbud: i.e I haven't seen one (or looked for it)22:47
cowbudfair enough, ill look. thanks22:47
charlie-tcaAlan: well, go rant in #Alan about it now22:48
kklimondaAlan: they are different things, done by different teams22:48
kklimondaAlan: from the specification: "The hostname entry will be dropped, with the hostname automatically set to whatever the default value would have been ('ubuntu-desktop', 'ubuntu-laptop')."22:49
kklimondaso it's not at bug, as I said earlier22:49
Alankklimonda: what specification?22:50
kklimondaAlan: of the installer redesign22:50
Alanand i still want to know what narrow-minded person thought that was a good idea22:50
kklimondaAlan: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-installer-redesign22:50
yofelthat sounds st****22:50
AlanIt's such a stupid thing to drop22:51
AlanJust because the developers that wrote the spec obviously never use it22:52
AlanIt seems like people are going on the assumption that changing it is a really narrow usecase...22:52
kklimondaAlan: just because I'm curious - what is your use case for changed hostname?22:53
Alankklimonda: to actually give the machine a meaningful name22:53
Alanwhat happens if you have 2 people called alan in a house22:53
Alanboth with laptops22:54
kklimondado you?22:54
Alanand they want to share files between them or something22:54
Alanimmediately you have the problem of "which alan-laptop ?"22:54
Alanok, so my specific case, i happen to have 3 laptops that are all mine22:54
charlie-tcaI use 5 desktops here, but I also assign static ip and hostnames to them22:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 628087 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Maverick ubiquity lacks option to change computer name" [Low,Confirmed]22:55
Alanthere are my comments22:55
Alaninstead of repeating myself22:55
yofelkklimonda: btw, I always change that field too22:55
kklimondaAlan: but you are in minority and you know what hostname is and how to change it.22:55
charlie-tcaThe change is for the "average" home user, not for those that know what hostname is22:56
kklimondait takes like what.. one command to change it after installtion?22:56
Alankklimonda: actually, no22:56
Alankklimonda: 1 command, editing another file, and that's just if you're lucky22:56
yofelkklimonda: so? then move it into an advanced tab, but don't remove it completely - not all people that are using the installer are "just" average22:56
Alanif you made the mistake of installing anything with an unsanitary setup script, you're screwed22:56
kklimondayofel: but there is no advanced tab afair22:56
charlie-tcaJust use the alternate installer.22:56
Alansome programs like to care about your hostname22:56
Alanit's a really stupid thing to outright REMOVE from the UI22:57
yofelssh keys for example22:57
Alanyou know, the GtkExpander widget was designed for these cases22:57
Alanthere is a SIGNIFICANT proportion of ubuntu users that ARE technically competent22:57
Alanprobably more than aren't22:57
kklimondaAlan: and they know how to change the hostname after installation or how to use alternate installer22:58
Alanin trying to "streamline" stuff you're alienating chunks of your fanatical userbase22:58
Alankklimonda: but why give them a great big "f**k you, we don't care" when there is no excuse to?22:58
kklimondaAlan: yeah, that's a big "FU" - exactly those people mindset, they won't use ubuntu anyway22:58
Alanit's a ridiculous choice and now there seems to be nothing but backwards rationalisation for "i don't use it, therefore we won't fix it"22:59
yofelok, let's calm down again a bit. As long as the alternate installer supports setting it I'm fine with it22:59
AlanBellAlan: hey, your computer has the same name as mine :-)22:59
kklimondaAlan: it's not broken so there is nothing to fix22:59
AlanDoes the alternate installer support encrypted home directory?22:59
AlanMore to the point, why does the GUI installer?22:59
AlanI bet more people change their hostname than encrypt their home dir22:59
AlanAlanBell: not if i can help it!23:00
kklimondaAlan: have you discussed it with designers? They don't usually sit on this channel23:00
AlanI dislike the alternate installer because it misses most of the niceties of the graphical installer23:00
Alanlike being able to have wireless network before installing23:00
Alankklimonda: well hopefully they read bugs filed against their software23:01
AlanBellAlan: is that a really new change to the installer? I installed Maverick a few weeks ago and set the computer name to "maverick" I do have another alan-desktop, but not that one23:01
AlanAlso, i don't feel like there's going to be any point because for it to get this far, there isn't anybody on the "inside" that will sympathise, it seems23:01
AlanAlanBell: since alpha3 i think23:02
Alani'm pretty sure the option was there in alpha323:02
Alanit's not there in beta23:02
Alanbut actually looks like they've redesigned the installer23:02
AlanBellok, it seems sub-optimal to me to not be able to choose the computer name23:02
Alanprobably synced the new version just before beta or something.23:02
AlanBellI will re-install tomorrow perhaps and have a look at that then23:03
AlanYou know what's annoying? it *seems* like i'm making a big deal out of nothing... but the change and the attitude around it is actually a shining example of what's going wrong :|23:04
kklimondaAlan: and that is?23:04
* yofel would have complained if he had followed that UDS session23:05
yofelsad that I can't be in multiple places at the same time..23:05
AlanThat developers are caring more about the lowest common denominator and ignoring actual use cases23:05
kklimondathere actually should be a nice creator for home networks - something like Windows' Homegroup23:06
AlanI mean, why not just make one window with a big button that says " do it all for me" ?23:06
kklimondaand there you should be able to set the hostname23:06
Alani mean, you can guess their username from another OS23:06
Alanyou can probably guess where to put it23:06
Alanwhy give them the choice?23:06
Alanthey probably just want ubuntu alongside windows with the same username as they have on windows23:06
Alanand probably no password, if they have no password on windows23:07
Alanand install grub on the first hard disk in BIOS order23:07
Alanwhy bother giving any choice?23:07
MarkusTIf anyone else has problems with VirtualBox PEUL and usb not working: It seems to be some kind of permission problem I wasn't able to figure out. Just start VirtualBox as root and it will work.23:07
kklimondaAlan: and you seem to be missing the point - but still it's not really a channel for ranting about software. and it's unproductive.23:08
=== jason is now known as Guest78222
Alankklimonda: i'm giving feedback on a beta23:09
kklimondaAlan: you may as well be right but at this point of time we can't add this field anyway so why bother? there is a bug reported and designers will read it.23:09
AlanI'm just unfortunately discovering that my bugs are actually features23:09
Alankklimonda: why can't you?23:10
kklimondaAlan: you have given this feedback four hours ago. Now you are just ranting.23:10
kklimondaAlan: because it's past UI Freeze23:10
Alankklimonda: code for "haha, now you have to deal with it for 6 months" :(23:10
kklimondaadding this field will require, for example, translations and new screenshots for manual (if someone is working on it)23:11
Alankklimonda: sorry, it was reignited by me actually spending some of my time to see what the state of it was, and if it was a simple fix23:11
Alanand actually it looks like a simple fix23:11
charlie-tcaIt is a simple fix, use the alternate image to do the installation.23:11
kklimondaAlan: it's a terrible simple fix - probably a few lines of code. But, as it's not a bug, it will require discussion23:11
Alanbut now it looks like anybody who wants to change their hostname has to either screw around or put up with whatever the alternate installer barfs out23:11
kklimondaAlan: or you can change it after installation and before you start installing your software that may hardcode it in its config files (which sounds terribly ugly and should be reported)23:12
Alankklimonda: it's still a feature regression bug, not a new feature23:13
kklimondaAlan: removing options is not a regression in itself23:13
yofelIMHO it is, then again, I'm a KDE user23:14
Alankklimonda: you know what would have been a REALLY great idea?  collecting installation stats23:14
Alansee what percentage of desktop installs change the hostname manually from the default23:14
kklimondaAlan: we can't do that23:14
Alanwith a great big "yes plz upload this" checkbox at the beginning of the installer23:14
AlanYou can23:14
Alanyou have the ubuntu software survey23:15
Alanno reason why you can't do something similar23:15
Alanunfortunately you can't now23:15
kklimondaeven the idea of simple opt-out counter of installations was criticised23:15
jani_10.04 64-bit, 10.10 64-bit both hang at boot after line that says "please try 'cgrou_disable=memory' option if you don't wan tmemory chroups" 4GB DDR3 ECC memory, amd phenom x6 1055T 2.8GHz, ASUS M4A785TD-V board (latest bios), 785G+710 chipset, default bios options, nothing extra connected (other than keyboard + mouse + dvd-rom). It hangs with a cursor blinking indefinitely at that point (waited one hour).23:15
Alanbecause some know-it-alls pushed changes through without research23:15
kklimondaAlan: this would only work if it were set as a default option and not on a opt-in basis23:15
kklimondaAlan: do you know that there was no research?23:15
kklimondaAlan: for fact?23:15
Alankklimonda: eh, i guess, it would be skewed towards people that actually give a crap about their installation23:15
jani_when i disabled cgroup memory, it hung after "console [tty0] enabled"23:16
kklimondaAlan: indeed23:16
Alanso now we're in the realm where "being a good corporate citizen" = shooting blind23:16
Alanok, i should seriously stop ranting now23:17
Alanit's not going to change anything23:17
kklimondaAlan: what you can do is discuss it with designers (through bug, or even mailing list)23:17
Alanthe satisfaction of others agreeing isn't outweighing the disappointment of others not23:17
Alankklimonda: but you said it yourself, it's already too late23:17
kklimondaAlan: you have to remember that FLOSS software is done this way - we release something, community gives feedback, we discuss it and change things.23:17
jani_sorry, the line was of course "please try 'cgroup_disable=memory' option if you don't wan't memory cgroups"23:18
kklimondaAlan: for this release but there is another in 7 months.23:18
Alankklimonda: do you skip releases?23:18
kklimondaAlan: it would be awesome if we could do things the right way from the beginning but that's impossible23:18
Alani skipped karmic entirely because it was horribly broken23:18
kklimondaAlan: is it really worth skipping a release?23:18
Alanno suspend, screwed up sound23:19
joonaalanbell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wicd/+bug/63116123:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 631161 in wicd (Ubuntu) "Wireless doesn't work on Gnome, but does with KDE." [Undecided,New]23:19
Alankklimonda: no, but i'll just hate ubuntu every time i install it for the next 6 months :(23:19
Alankklimonda: freezes always seem too early - by the time the software is stable enough for people to test, they can't have any input on that release anyway23:20
Alankklimonda: which makes it feel pointless giving feedback at all23:20
kklimondaAlan: why? there is always a next release - your feedback may be considered during next development cycle.23:21
Alanbecause no matter what happens, everybody's got to live with it for the next 6 months, or they've got to skip a version and deal with ancient softwware versions...23:21
kklimondaAlan: Why think about now?23:21
sharkyIs this Alan personal rant channel23:21
Alankklimonda: because what's produced now is what i have to use until "then"23:21
yofelAlan: well, that spec was written at UDS, which is a few weeks after release, you need to participate there if you want to take part in the decision making process23:21
kklimondaAlan: what we are trying to do is to create a great operating system - but it's a long process.23:21
Alanand a fuzzy definition23:22
jani_windows 7 and freebsd do work on same system23:22
Alanintrepid was pretty nice23:22
jani_all ubuntu versions hang23:22
jani_i've tried23:22
kklimondaAlan: but we have always aimed at people who aren't technical.23:22
Alankklimonda: does that mean technically i've been enjoying the failure for the last few years, and now you're succeeding i need to move elsewhere?23:23
Alanstuck between a rock and a hard place23:23
kklimondaAlan: no, why?23:23
kklimondaAlan: that's something I don't really get. Ubuntu is just a Debian under the hood.23:23
AlanI like the fact ubuntu puts more effort into smoothing the experience23:24
kklimondaif you strip shiny installer, some tweaks to GNOME, some software created by us and Canonical you will get just another Linux Distribution.23:24
Alanand that's what's kept me on ubuntu23:24
Alanbut it's shifted from improving the experience to streamlining it to a different demographic23:24
Alankklimonda: it's people like you that give us 1366x768 monitors! *rage*23:24
Alankklimonda: it's those bits that have made ubuntu stand out though23:25
Alaneh, maybe i should just fork and make probuntu! :P23:25
kklimondaAlan: yeah, sure - but maybe designers have a better idea where to put host name change gizmo?23:25
Alankklimonda: you mean like "nowhere because we don't use it" ?23:25
kklimondaAlan: it's hard to tell without discussing it with them.23:25
yofelerm, Alan: maybe we could cut this down a lot if you would go to #ubuntu-installer and kindly asked if they would consider adding that option back again sometime in the future23:27
Alanyofel: maybe, i'm probably not in the right frame of mind now23:27
yofelheh, have a cookie ;)23:27
AlanI meant to leave, but the discussion kept going23:28
Alan"Somebody stop the internet, i want off"23:28
kklimondaone thing I agree is that Ubuntu community should be doing more to show "fanatical users" that Ubuntu is just a Linux distribution underneath.. even if we don't call it Linux ;)23:28
kklimondawe tend to loose users who decide that Ubuntu is to "lame" distribution for them and switch over to Arch or Gentoo23:28
Alankklimonda: i love you and want to have your babies23:29
charlie-tcajani_: have you tried editing the grub menu boot line to remove "quiet splash" and booting? You should see the errors then23:29
Alankklimonda: the unfortunate fact of life is that it's pretty much impossible to balance the two23:30
charlie-tcaAlso, sometimes, that lets the system boot23:30
jani_charlie-tca, how do you edit install cd grub menu? i did remove quiet splash manually from live cd menu, though23:30
jani_i just can't successfully boot 8.04 32-bit, 10.04 64-bit, 10.10 64-bit at all23:31
jani_just freebsd 7 and windows 7 work23:31
jani_all ubuntus hang immediately after kernel is loaded23:31
Alanjani_: tried ubuntu 7?23:31
Alanmaybe it's the magic number 7!23:31
jani_Alan, heh, i guess that's what's needed :D23:31
* popey shakes his fist at Alan 23:32
charlie-tcayou can hit shift as the cd boots, then when the options menu comes up, hit F6 and remove them from the end of the line23:32
Alanjust hack the lsb_release strink23:32
jani_charlie-tca, yeah, did that23:32
charlie-tcaWhat about the 32-bit versions? do they work?23:32
kklimondaAlan: sure, we'll always loose a part of our users who believe that the only real Linux is Slackware. But we could still do a better job at showing that you can be a "pro linux user" and use Ubuntu at the same time.23:32
popeyevery time I start an irc client without /nick popey, it always reminds me that the nick "alan" is registered to you.. yet I've never seen you in any channel I'm in!23:32
popeyuntil now!23:32
jani_i mean, how else i would have seen that line before hang23:32
jani_charlie-tca, just 8.04, it hung same way23:32
Alanpopey: :P23:33
Alanpopey: have i ever ghost killed you?23:33
popeyi dont think so23:33
Alanshame :P23:33
popeyi dont stay alan long enough23:33
popeyone day23:33
Alanheh, most people don't have a chance to become alan23:33
Alanmy IRC client is on 24/723:33
popeyput it on your "100 things to do before I die"23:33
popeyI have many times23:33
jani_again, things that i think are related: 10.04 64-bit, 10.10 64-bit both hang at boot after line that says "please try 'cgrou_disable=memory' option if you don't wan tmemory chroups" 4GB DDR3 ECC memory, amd phenom x6 1055T 2.8GHz, ASUS M4A785TD-V board (latest bios), 785G+710 chipset, default bios options, nothing extra connected (other than keyboard + mouse + dvd-rom). It hangs with a cursor blinking indefinitely at that point (waited one hour).23:33
popeyanyway, just saying Hi :)23:34
jani_right, with all the typos and everything :)23:34
charlie-tcajani_: I am thinking file a bug on it. or ask in #ubuntu-installer, where they know more than me23:34
Alanjani_: one possibility is that you have some REALLY new chip on that motherboard?23:34
charlie-tcaThey may not be very active today, though23:34
Alani remember when the linux kernel didn't support the latest jmicron IDE/SATA controller stuff, made it impossible to install on new hardware23:35
jani_Alan, all i know i had to update my bios to sept. 2010 version, because july 2010 version did not recognize my CPU23:35
jani_so yeah, possibly23:35
jani_Alan, haha, that also bit me long time ago, jmicron problems23:36
ZoraelIs there a neat terminal command to update to maverick beta on my lucid installation? Or is stuff in maverick too wildly different, that I might be better of by just doing a fresh install?23:36
jani_and also some ethernet controller that had 4GB+ DMA issues23:36
popeyZorael: i upgraded on friday, seemed okay23:36
popeyZorael: sudo do-release-upgrade -d23:36
Alanjani_: EVO or EVO/U3S6 version?23:37
Zoraelpopey: Awesome, thanks23:37
Alani.e. do you have usb 3 / sata 3?23:37
jani_USB 2, not sure of SATA23:37
charlie-tcaZorael: here is the command - http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/maverick/beta#Upgrading%20from%20Ubuntu%2010.04%20LTS23:37
jani_i'd guess SATA 223:37
jani_i mean, 3 Gbps one, SATA 'version numbers' are so confusing :)23:38
Alanjani_: tried booting the installer with noacpi?23:38
jani_ah right, will try to do so now, i'll let you know how it crashes and burns with that option ;)23:39
jani_err, acpi=off or noapic?23:40
Alanjani_: heh, it might make no difference, but ACPI is a horrible beast...23:40
Alanacpi=off probably23:40
Alanapic is something different23:40
Alani'm probably just shooting in the dark though :P23:40
jani_kernel option or does that f6 menu do something magic?23:41
kklimondathere is acpi=off in F6 menu23:41
kklimondabut it's a kernel option23:42
jani_yeah, but it didn't change kernel boot string23:42
jani_so i'm suspicious23:42
kklimondait doesn't23:42
jani_ok, it's booting now23:42
Alanlike, properly?23:43
Alanor has it not got to the bit where it hangs?23:43
jani_no, have to retry now23:44
DaijoubuAny idea how to trigger a DSL connection in Kubuntu? I made a DSL connection but it's just sitting there and it doesn't connect or anything.23:45
Alanhere's a really horrible test for you jani_ .... downgrade motherboard BIOS and borrow an older AM3 CPU from somebody....23:45
jani_Alan, well, what do you know23:45
jani_it boots23:45
Alanjani_: it's entirely possible that Asus royally screwed something up in the ACPI in the BIOS update23:46
jani_Alan, I wouldn't be surprised at all23:46
Alanactually, the machine will boot with the old BIOS, right?23:46
jani_Alan, no idea, because it didn't recognize the CPU :)23:46
Alanyou could try booting with ACPI on in the old BIOS?23:46
Alanjani_: fair enough23:48
jani_that... can be problematic, you know23:48
Daijoubudo i have to go to Kubuntu+1 for kubuntu 10.10 help ? O-O23:48
Alanjani_: yeah... unfortunately, it seems most BIOS revisions aren't tested outside of Windows at all23:48
AlanI would assume that BSD doesn't bother with ACPI, and windows has specific hacks23:48
Alanand Linux sees what looks like ACPI and tries to use it23:48
yofelDaijoubu: no kubuntu+1 is here too, does it print something in /var/log/syslog when you try to connect?23:48
jani_i don't know about ACPI, but it did appear like BSD complained it was unable to reserve some memory ranges, too23:48
jani_in ACPI info23:48
Daijoubuyofel i'm connected right now but i used pppoeconf in terminal, when i create a DSL conenction in Kubuntu network manager it just sits there and it doesn't trigger23:49
Daijoubuin Gnome when i create that DSL connection it triggers and conencts23:49
Alanjani_: sounds like the BIOS is your culprit, with no specific workarounds in the kernel :(23:49
jani_Alan, and it23:49
jani_'s the only BIOS i can use :(23:49
Alanjani_: my previous build had a crap BIOS shipped with the motherboard.... memory accesses in the top few MB of the address range would take an appreciable fraction of a second, meaning that when i upgraded to 8GB of RAM i suddenly couldn't boot linux in less than a year23:50
jani_i mean, if i want to run the CPU at speeds higher than 800MHz23:50
Alanjani_: however, my point was you could downgrade the BIOS just to confirm the problem23:51
Alanif you can boot, but it runs at 800MHz... well it still boots23:51
Alanif the APCI doesn't barf all over you, you've double-confirmed the culprit23:51
yofelDaijoubu: with trigger you mean connect automatically? (I use a router so I'm not sure how the dsl settings work)23:51
Alanall we know right now is that it doesn't break if you ignore ACPI on the newest BIOS23:51
jani_Alan, heh, i wonder how that memory was mapped23:52
Daijoubuyofel: in Gnome when i create the DSL connection i select the Auto Connect and when i close it or restart it auto-dials, in Kubuntu when i create the same DSL connection and select Auto Connect, nothing happens, and if i restart nothing again.23:52
jani_but couldn't you just kill the range in kernel options?23:53
Alanjani_: it's annoying though, it just proves that they test it with windows and that's it...23:53
Alanjani_: could do, but there was a "beta" BIOS that fixed it23:53
Alan(although it didn't mention it in the release notes...)23:53
yofelDaijoubu: hm, then I'm clueless, maybe someone in #kubuntu-devel might know more23:53
Daijoubuyofel: ok thanks23:53
jani_Alan, what exactly i lost with ACPI=no?23:54
Alanjani_: at least the ability to suspend-to-RAM23:54
jani_big deal, it's going to be my file server23:54
Alanand possibly certain aspects of CPU frequency scaling / idling...23:55
Alanjani_: you have a 6-core fileserver O.o23:55
jani_although probably ZFS... how's btrfs these days? does it have scrub, raidz2 analog?23:55
jani_Alan, yes, re-encoding video on the fly might need some power23:55
Alanjani_: ah, fair enough23:56
Alanjani_: not so sure about filesystems... I was so tempted by ZFS, but it's kinda "sketchy" on linux still i think, and raidz doesn't support expansion...23:56
jani_ZFS is great, i mean, i've used it for 2 years on Solaris at work23:56
jani_i'm still very impressed with it23:57
Alani'm sure it's great23:57
Alanand i'm sure it's very great on solaris23:57
jani_those instant snapshots too, zfs send/receive23:57
jani_could go on and on23:57
Alanbut it's not really "on linux" yet, and the RAID isn't expandable!23:58
Alanthe whole appeal for me is "it's better than RAID5"23:58
Alanbut i can expand my RAID5 with more disks when i need23:58
jani_RAID5 is nono23:58
jani_RAID6 / raidz2 is so much safer23:58
Alanraid6 isn't much safer than raid523:59
Alanjust more expensive :P23:59
jani_that's what you say, until you lose a disk and then another one during a resilver - whole raid lost, oops...23:59
Alan(bearing in mind i don't tend to keep essential stuff on my fileserver, just a large media collection)23:59

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