[00:00] jani_: my rebuild time is about 12 hours at the moment [00:00] resilver makes whole array work hard [00:00] if i'm going to have 2 fail within 12 hours, i'm probably going to have 3 fail within 12 hours [00:00] it doesn't work like that :) [00:00] :P [00:00] Also, i've run out of SATA ports.... [00:00] heh [00:00] but yeah, it's a really good idea to make sure your disks don't come from same batch1 [00:00] well, if RAIDZ stopped being crap.... [00:01] :P [00:01] oh, you can get SAS controller and i guess also SATA with port dividers [00:01] so how many disks you got? over 40? [00:01] I would absolutely use a better system if i could just say "I have £500 to spend right now on a storage solution, and it's going to stay exactly like this until i build another" [00:01] but that's not my use case [00:01] jani_: no [00:02] jani_: 6 [00:02] those sata port dividers are also cheap, haven't tried [00:02] they also bottleneck [00:02] depends on controller, though [00:02] sure, but disk space we're after, no? doesn't matter if it's 200MB/s or 1000 MB/s [00:02] you can get about 2 disks per SATA3G channel before you IO-bottleneck.... [00:03] jani_: i'd rather keep my disks faster than my network [00:03] hey, you can use one disk before you have 1Gbit ethernet bottleneck :p [00:03] and since i have gigabit throughout the house [00:03] i mean, any decent disk can saturate 1Gbit *alone* [00:03] yes [00:04] but trying to do RAID5 striped reads across 5 disks sharing a 200MB/s channel is going to suck... [00:04] well, a little [00:04] especially because the raid5 implementation almost certainly is built to take advantage of simultaneous reads... [00:05] but if you have 2 channels, there's no way you'll notice [00:05] I have 2 options on the table for expanding [00:05] other than benchmarking [00:05] locally [00:05] jani_: it takes long enough to decompress a 10GB multi-part RAR [00:05] and never mind the 10000 deletes i did today... [00:05] for that you need CPU power [00:06] jani_: no, teh CPU power is fine [00:06] 10000 deletes? ZFS is not for you i guess [00:06] it's IO bottlenecked [00:06] jani_: i was clearing out my ubuntu mirror [00:06] had everything back to intrepid mirrored [00:06] heh [00:06] i'm not actually running anything older than lucid [00:06] not so much data then [00:07] the structure of ZFS doesn't like too many deletes, if i remember right [00:07] yeah, mostly i'm writing [00:07] but like i said, i'm on an as-i-need-it budget [00:08] btw, try lzo (lzop) [00:08] which means i need to be able to expand [00:08] it sure compresses worse, but it expands 1GB/s :) [00:08] (that's gigabyte, not gigabit :p9 [00:08] jani_: doesn't help when you're unpacking something somebody else compressed :P [00:08] ah, i have nzxt whisper case, really cheap [00:08] guess how many disks fit in? [00:08] my case is a leftover from an old build [00:08] 9 + 5 + 5 [00:08] 3.5" [00:08] it's lound and rattly.... [00:09] or 9 + 4 + 4 if i worry about cooling [00:09] you using multi-bay caddies? [00:09] Alan, true :) [00:09] not yet, just using those 9 bays [00:09] anyone have netbook edition running? [00:09] but that's my expansion plan when i need [00:09] can't get it to boot hangs after login screen [00:09] my case could do 9 + 3 + 3 if/when i need [00:09] i curretnly have 6 [00:10] 3 + 3? you can convert 3x 5.25" bays into 4x 3.5" disk bays easily with those internal hard disk cases [00:10] but i'm now out of SATA ports, i'm planning on either getting an 8-port JBOD PCI-E x4 card... [00:10] and 5x with bad cooling [00:11] or a 2-port SATA6G card and some splitters [00:11] whisper has 7x 5.25" bays free [00:11] jani_: yeah, i'm on about converting 2x5.25 to 3x3.5 [00:11] and of course those 9x 3.5" hard disk bays with noise dampening [00:12] ah, right [00:13] i didn't know such things existed (2x 5.25" -> 3x 3.5"), but then again there are a lot of things i don't know about :) [00:14] ahha [00:14] damn you, now i'm distracted by wanting to buy more stuff [00:14] I just talked myself out of upgrading my desktop case so i can make my server quieter... [00:14] see, my desktop is in a p182 [00:14] my new box (when it works) will be 9TB raid6 / raidz2 [00:15] 6x1.5TB? [00:15] and i guess in a few years, when say, 3TB disks are common, i could add 18TB raid6 on top [00:15] no, 8x [00:15] oh [00:15] yeah [00:15] duh :| [00:16] the psu and case can support it (620W) [00:16] Alright after login unity fails to start [00:17] and from that point, ZFS send from small array to big one, and upgrade old array also to 18TB = totally 36TB available :p [00:17] Anyone here having similiar issues? [00:19] i have DSLR that has nearly 50 Mbit/s bitrate video, that's why the "insane" array [00:20] jani_: explains a lot :p [00:20] i've got about 1 out of 4TB free at the moment [00:20] in a 5x1TB array [00:21] then you need a new array soon [00:21] oh cool, girlfriend made blackberry+apple pies [00:21] \o/ [00:21] jani_: why you say that? [00:21] !ot [00:21] #ubuntu+1 handles support for the development version of Ubuntu. Please join #ubuntu for all other Ubuntu support. Chat in #ubuntu-offtopic. [00:21] yeah, we are a little bit aren't we? [00:22] Okay I can start normal desktop session just not netbook session from the gdm screen. [00:22] Is there a netbook channel? [00:22] Alan, wait until she's your wife... (8 years of experience) [00:22] histo, sorry, i would help you if i had any idea how [00:24] jani_: :P [00:24] hey, 10.10 package manager is nice :) [00:25] Ahh jesus unity doesn't load without 3d card === ubuntu_ is now known as jani___ [00:26] let me enable 3d on vm see if that will work [00:26] so, ubuntu 10.10 here [00:26] jani_: it is? [00:26] Alan, thanks for helping to get this run :p [00:26] you on about the software center thing? [00:27] yeah, tried it, now it lets you enable software sources directly from it [00:27] They removed the ability to search/install by package name, which was possible in lucid [00:27] oh [00:27] it's really annoying [00:27] aptitude + command line? [00:27] they removed aptitude [00:27] what? [00:27] (from desktop, anyway) [00:27] so apt-get it is :P [00:27] now you see how my rants (if you saw them) weren't just about one issue :P [00:28] oh [00:28] and apparently command line [00:28] "o hai, we r makin ubuntu teh dumb" [00:28] right, i take my first impressions back [00:28] haha [00:28] :P [00:28] then again, this system will run either opensolaris or freebsd [00:29] not entirely sure why i spent 3 hours trying to get ubuntu work :) [00:29] isn't opensolaris a bit of a risk with oracle killing everything in sight? [00:29] jani___: hahah [00:29] yeah, that's why freebsd [00:29] I run ubuntu-server on my server [00:29] but i'm sticking with the LTS [00:29] because server reinstalls are painful [00:29] and upgrades are crap [00:29] maybe nexenta... oh well, i wish btrfs was already zfs-level [00:30] always, no matter how much effort is put into the process... [00:30] not going to run fuse + zfs [00:31] i love zfs, because it's catching errors on disk caused by hardware and fixing them automatically [00:31] hmm [00:31] this has already helped at work [00:32] heh [00:32] pretty much all of my data is music an video [00:32] (well, ok, you need to have cronjob for scrub, but big deal) [00:32] pretty resistant to bit errors [00:32] one bit error can cause you to lose everything until next iframe [00:32] oh well [00:32] that's 12 frames+ [00:32] so you miss 12 frames [00:32] and you know you need to re-rip [00:32] big deal [00:33] oh, in my case it's gone then [00:33] yeah [00:33] we already established your use case is different :P [00:33] yes :) [00:34] hmmm [00:34] I wish there was a simple way to swap out a disk in a raid5 non-risky [00:34] so silly... i could download ubuntu 20MB/s+ and when i burned it, 4-6MB/s [00:34] what's the world coming to... [00:34] that's what you get for using a CD :P [00:34] DVD, actually [00:34] 8x burner [00:35] yeah [00:35] even so [00:35] I love USB drive installs because CD drives have HORRIBLE seek times... [00:35] USB isn't really that much faster when writing [00:35] at least those cheap sticks [00:35] but seek, yes, you have a point [00:36] no, they're not much faster writing, but they are much faster reading [00:36] I tend to keep 2 sticks hanging around, one with win7 x64 and another with latest ubuntu x64 [00:37] i have intel 80GB SSD in all new workstations/laptops at work [00:37] and some old too [00:37] must be nice to have a budget :p [00:37] it rocks, win7 boots in 15 seconds [00:38] ubuntu would probably boot before you touch power button, with disks that fast :p [00:38] It's cheaper to have 8GB RAM and never shutdown :P [00:38] i.e. no excuse for the kernel to bother unmapping shared libs etc. [00:38] oh, 12GB is what work desktops have, some 24GB (3 channel memory does those weird sizes) [00:38] keep as much as possible in RAM waiting to be used again... [00:38] but SSD is still nice [00:39] you do some kind of professional digital video work or something? :P [00:39] especially with windows, because its IO benefits from fast access times a lot more than linux [00:39] i mean, try a directory with 100000 files in windows, how long it takes to delete it :) [00:39] you mean that Linux does well across everything, but windows bogs down really easily? [00:39] then try same with linux with cheapest 5400 RPM disk [00:40] linux will win, regardless the disk :S [00:40] at least ext3/4 [00:40] Windows' IO queue is like a conveyor belt made of pensioners... [00:40] * undifined just made some ramdisks for /tmp /var/tmp and /var/log [00:40] heavy network IO? no disk for you [00:40] then try copying a lot of small files on windows 7, click advanced bar down [00:41] and wonder why file copy speed is reported as 100kB/s [00:41] and cry [00:41] yeah [00:41] it's crap [00:41] I can't work on windows [00:41] I can play games on windows [00:41] but it's not much of a multi-tasking operating system [00:41] there is an advanced bar for copying ? [00:41] never knew [00:41] windows 7, you get to see copy speed, etc. like that [00:42] undifined: it's where you check "plz go faster, stop checking for DRM rape" [00:42] otherwise it's hidden [00:42] lol [00:42] [00:42] my daughter uses win7, but i haven't looked at it [00:43] only setup her wireless [00:43] win7 is the most acceptable windows for quite a while... [00:43] and i was done [00:43] you start to wonder when you're copying 6 MB of files, expect it to be instant and click that advanced after 30 seconds [00:43] win7 is rather decent, yes, other than file operation speed [00:43] jani___: yeah, it's obviously got a crappy long-round-trip synchronous write going on there :| [00:43] sustained read/write is almost OK [00:43] Alan, I think win7 syncs after every file [00:44] (but it will still block other stuff from happening) [00:44] jani___: that would explain it :P [00:44] I'd rather have everyone on linux in the house, but she needs windows for her school / dyslexia programs [00:44] Alan, you can't say it's not good for consistency, though [00:44] but for performance... heh [00:45] jani___: right, but Windows hasn't supported a decent filesystem like... ever? [00:45] I mean, ext3 manages decent filesystem performance... [00:45] much much better than NTFS [00:45] Alan, i hate to defend windows, but tell me any other transactional filesystem? [00:45] fat 12 was ok :p [00:45] (also, my server is still on ext3!!!) [00:45] you can do several file operations and atomically commit/rollback [00:45] pretty cool [00:46] woo [00:46] that's not what filesystems are for [00:46] try getting the basic stuff right first [00:46] :P [00:46] well then how about tux3 fs ? [00:46] i like fs speed, but why not? [00:46] "HOLY CRAP WE HAVE A FEATURE!!!!" "Shame nothing else works..." [00:47] hehe [00:47] tux3 got transactions? [00:47] hahahha [00:47] You know what i love? [00:47] the newest iPod Shuffle [00:47] "HOLY CRAP WE HAVE BUTTONS!! THEYRE NICE AND EASY TO USE AND INTUITIVE!!!" [00:47] oh great [00:47] So what they really mean is "huh, nobody liked us moving all the buttons off of the device so they couldn't use their own earphones..." [00:48] 4th gen shuffle looks just like 2nd gen shuffle [00:48] a little smaller [00:48] 3rd gen was an abortion [00:48] maybe i should go troll in #apple [00:48] that'd be fun [00:48] ever since my boss became iphone converted he refuses to let people get any other phones :( [00:48] but i want my nokia n900... :/ [00:48] not some stinky iphone 4gs [00:49] jani___: how can he do that? :| [00:49] * Alan <3 android :P [00:50] n900 = debian, 256MB mem and 768MB swap, etc. can have complete userland on it and ROOT without need for hacks [00:50] no jailbreak needed [00:50] runs firefox smoothly, multiple windows, even when you have youtube videos playing back on the background [00:51] and the battery doesn't last long enough to get it from home to work? [00:51] lasts longer than on iphone [00:51] and you can change it too [00:51] it's heavy [00:51] big deal? [00:52] other than that... [00:52] much lighter than any subnotebook or laptop [00:52] why would you want firefox on a phone? [00:52] oh god [00:52] to browse web? [00:52] are we in device merging hell? [00:52] and you can have ssh tunnel / vnc / rdp [00:52] haha, but firefox? on a small device? [00:52] bleh [00:52] laugh, but it works well [00:52] :P [00:52] ok, i will :) [00:53] phone is not a subnotebook replacement [00:53] but it can overlap in functionality [00:53] my phone is smart enough to do phone stuff plus other stuff if i need to [00:53] and let me tell, i hate lugging laptop around [00:53] my laptop is used for doing actually laptoppy stuff... [00:53] how heavy is your laptop? [00:53] shrug, 2.5kg + stuff [00:53] my laptop gets about 7 hours and it weighs less than 2Kg [00:54] my laptop's actually pretty nice, damned expensive tohugh [00:54] *though [00:54] my laptop gets 30 minutes on a good day [00:54] :) [00:54] Lenovo X200t (tablet) [00:54] lenovo t61p [00:54] 12" LED-backlit screen, 1.86GHz C2D, 4GB RAM [00:54] 7 hours battery life [00:54] (yay low-voltage dual-core) [00:54] nice [00:55] cost about £1300 though [00:55] but i wanted a light powerful tablet with good battery life [00:55] how much is that in real euros? [00:55] cost is the tradeoff there [00:55] euros? [00:55] i thought you said real [00:55] :P [00:55] (you know, pound is often same as euro... in reality) [00:55] even though the exchange rate lets you understand something else [00:55] not if I can help it [00:56] jani___: you mean exchange rate * crappy economy offset == 1.0 ? [00:56] so many products that cost $300, 300€ and 300 £ :p [00:56] yes, that's true [00:56] i'm not sure [00:57] i wonder why companies want to rip off uk customers so badly [00:58] because they can? [00:58] because buying foreign + import tax is more expensive than buying UK? [00:58] you can also buy a bit in usa, lose the packages and mail yourself the receipts [00:58] and not declare :> [00:59] customs duty is just the economy-difference-modifier to force you to stick with what's forced on you [00:59] or get someone send you stuff as a present [01:00] heh [01:00] very laggy window movement in 10.10 with this integrate 785G stuff (not like it matters for a server, though) [01:01] it feels like windows have some inertia === duffydack is now known as SaRAh === SaRAh is now known as Guest95343 === Guest95343 is now known as duffydfack === duffydfack is now known as duffydack [01:41] My machine is being hammered by mysqld after upgrading to maverick. I think this is becuase it is running mysqlcheck and ran into some errors even though there were no indication of database errors before the upgrade. [01:42] Is there anything I can do, or do I just have to wait? [01:48] has anyone here tried to connect to virtualbox's rdp server? [02:00] billybigrigger: what's your issue? [02:00] then again, if it's +1 specific, i might not be able to help :P [02:01] i have debian setup in a vm, through vbox, and have the remote display setup...all is good in i can connect and use the vm using ubuntu's terminal server client.... [02:01] but i'm seeing both my local machines mouse pointer, and debians mouse pointer [02:01] just wanted to know if this is normal or just my config or what not [02:04] billybigrigger: ah, i found that happens until you install virtualbox guest additions in the guest [02:04] (I did the same thing the other day, had the same result - the problem disappears if you install the guest additions) [02:05] If I had to guess, i'd say that usually with remote desktop you have mouse-pointer integration stuff which hides the local or remote mouse pointer, but if you don't have guest additions installed then you don't have pointer integration between the guest and the virtualbox remote desktop server [02:51] hi all, where is the xorg.conf file in 10.10? [02:52] tuga3d: you have to create one yourself [02:52] kklimonda: thanks!!! [03:23] is the upgrade supposed to take 6-7 hrs? [03:25] no micahg [03:26] unless you have a slow connection [03:26] undifined: it was 1 hr to download and it says 6 hrs to upgrade [03:26] ouch that is a long download [03:27] lucid upgraded in 2 hrs including download [03:27] try to reduce processes [03:27] ones that make is sluggish [03:28] s/is/it/ [03:28] top should be able to tell you [03:29] hey everyone [03:29] hi glick [03:29] whats the repo for skype and google earth and all those extra goodies for 10.10? [03:29] ask ubuntu-tweak [03:30] http://ubuntu-tweak.com/downloads/ [03:30] glick: skype you can get from lucid partner [03:30] lucid partner its not in the meerkat reps yet? [03:30] glick: partner repo is created close to release [03:31] is google earth available from that repo too? [03:31] will that cause upgrade issues? [03:31] if i enable the lucid repo? [03:31] deb http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/ stable main [03:31] deb http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/ stable non-free main [03:31] thanks [03:32] I run my own apt-mirror :p [03:56] does anyone know why i get the following error when i try to add the google signing key to my keyring [03:56] gpg: can't open `/etc/apt/trusted.gpg' [03:56] ? [03:58] dl.google.com im getting Err http://dl.google.com stable/main Sources [03:58] 404 Not Found [IP: 74.125.127.93 80] [03:58] looks like the server is down [03:59] what else is new with google ? [03:59] its pinging [03:59] We need cdemu in meerkat. [03:59] mawst: it's most likely too late for that [03:59] :( [03:59] I'm also not convinced we need cdemu at all [03:59] Well there's no ppa even. [03:59] dang [03:59] down eh? [03:59] I like it [04:00] People want a handy alcohol/daemon tools alternative. [04:00] why would you want to mount images? [04:00] wait, don't answer that [04:01] (it was a tricky question, I'm pretty sure I know the main reason) [04:01] i guess google repos are dwon? [04:02] :D [04:04] anyone else verify that its indeed down or im doing it wroing? [04:05] 404 is Not Found, not down [04:05] maybe you have a wrong address? [04:06] kklimonda, im using the address from this tutorial http://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/apt.html [04:06] deb http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/ stable non-free main [04:07] well, maybe they have moved it somewhere else and forgotten to change documentation.. [04:35] My taskbar doesnt appear when I try and boot 10.10 from a disc. [04:38] moin guys [04:38] I put on 10.10 beta....how to add sun jdk, jre, etc? seems to be different than 10.04 [04:39] before, just multiverse, right? [04:39] or the partner thing anyways....what changed? [04:41] partner repo isn't yet ready for maverick [04:41] doh [04:41] that would explain :D [04:41] good way to get around that little issue? [04:41] use openjdk [04:41] doubt there are .deb [04:42] true [04:42] or install sub java packages for lucid [04:42] I will try that for a while [04:42] sun* [04:42] gotcha [04:42] I figured that would break all kinds of stuff [05:02]