[00:13] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1172332 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/ (4 files in 2 dirs) Check the URI to determine the uniqueness of an entry for the DownloadModel.
[00:37] <CIA-116> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1172335 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/worker/workeracquire.cpp Call updateStatus() in WorkerAcquire::Done() so that we can set the percentage to 100% when an item finished downloading
[00:37]  * claydoh|werk contemplates installing Hardy as there are quite a few holdouts making the move from 8.04 to 10.04
[00:40] <claydoh|werk> and a few going back to kde3
[01:24] <JontheEchidna> http://imgur.com/1Xfh2
[01:46] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1172341 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/ (5 files in 2 dirs) Pretty up the Download view a bit. Still needs some work.
[02:03] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1172346 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/ (4 files in 2 dirs) Bring back feature parity with the old DownloadWidget by showing Done once an item is done downloading, "Hit" if a hit occurs, and "Ignored" if a package is ignored.
[02:35] <JontheEchidna> http://imgur.com/dSEwV yey
[02:37] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1172350 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/DownloadModel/ (DownloadDelegate.cpp DownloadDelegate.h DownloadModel.cpp) - Add a size column - Since we have so many text columns now, let's just have one text painting function, instead of reimplementing it each switch case
[03:52] <nigelb> anyone here interested in a session during app developer week? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek/Timetable
[08:38] <CIA-116> [muon] pino * 1172407 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/Messages.sh fix message extraction
[08:38] <CIA-116> [muon] pino * 1172408 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/installer/main.cpp use the muon catalog as main in moun-installer
[09:33] <Riddell> happynoff: but you can only build the whole source package, not part of it
[09:34] <Riddell> for packaging anyway, you can compile only part of the source code but you can't make only 1 of the .debs
[09:35] <happynoff> Ok maybe there is another way to test my patch, 'cause losing 20/25 minutes each time I change a line is long.
[09:35] <happynoff> I tried to cmake/make/make install Arl
[09:35] <happynoff> Ark*
[09:35] <Riddell> yes, you don't need to build the .deb to test some code changes
[09:35] <happynoff> but when I call it I get an error telling that a plugin was not found
[09:36] <Riddell> mkdir build; cd build; cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr ..; cd ark; make; sudo make install
[09:36] <Riddell> then only the last two are needed after each change
[09:37] <happynoff> ok I'll try it thanks
[09:38] <happynoff> what is the build directory located ?
[09:38] <happynoff> do I need to create it in a specific path ?
[09:39] <debfx> could someone pleaes make bug #629753 public
[09:48] <Riddell> happynoff: create it in the top of the kdeutils sources
[09:49] <happynoff> ok, thanks
[09:49] <Riddell> debfx: done
[09:49] <debfx> thanks
[09:55] <happynoff> Riddell: it seems to work, I'll retry to check but I would like to clean up the /usr/local install. How do I do that ? I tried make dist-clean/uninstall/fclean. is there something ?
[10:00] <Riddell> rm -r :)
[10:01] <happynoff> Riddell: yes but I guess there are some lib or shared files
[10:01] <apachelogger> wgrant: cool, xz is the future anyway ^^
[10:03] <apachelogger> ScottK: thanks for the approval
[10:03] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: thanks for review
[10:04] <apachelogger> ScottK: uploaded
[10:08] <nigelb> apachelogger: what is your app developer week session on?
[10:17] <wgrant> apachelogger: Once Debian supports it, we will follow quickly.
[10:19] <apachelogger> nigelb: Qt development: why you want to do it, why it is awesome and why you will love it.
[10:20] <apachelogger> wgrant: that only leaves us with 5 more years to wait then ^^
[10:20] <wgrant> apachelogger: Heh, yeah.
[10:20] <nigelb> apachelogger: looking for someone to talk about plasma widgets.
[10:20] <apachelogger> can do that too
[10:21] <nigelb> one of the topics suggested to fill the gaps in the scedule
[10:21] <apachelogger> nigelb: or maybe you can find someone in #plasma to do it
[10:21]  * nigelb smiles sweetly
[10:21] <apachelogger> in any case I can jump in as fallback since I had a plasma talk at last whateverweek
[10:21] <nigelb> apachelogger: Can you ask somone you might know?
[10:22] <apachelogger> I do not know nobody :P
[10:22] <apachelogger> nigelb: just hop in and throw the qustion out
[10:22] <apachelogger> "Thanks to this little feature, my computer now runs significantly faster. You could even call it 'snappy' :)"
[10:22] <apachelogger> <3 raster
[10:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: we should implement a RAM chexx0r and set raster as backend if RAMz > 2 GiB or so
[10:23] <apachelogger> according to thiago raster works all end every time
[10:23] <apachelogger> also from a techical POV I do not see why it shouldnt work
[10:24] <apachelogger> or is it technological
[10:24] <apachelogger> well
[10:24] <apachelogger> a techfoo POV
[10:25] <apachelogger> hm
[10:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also what do you think about raising the warning barrier for running out of space as to maybe avoid bug reports related to that?
[10:26]  * apachelogger thinks that apt should check and warn before installing anyway
[10:31] <nigelb> apachelogger: I asked! If they eat me alive I'll just direct to you
[10:37] <nigelb> Sigh, even worse.  No response.
[10:51] <lelamal> apachelogger: hi, I followed the guidelines reported on your blog about qt graphics system, but it doesn't show up in system settings, not even when using the search field - can you help please?
[10:51] <apachelogger> that is interesting
[10:51] <apachelogger> lelamal: when you run sudo make install
[10:52] <apachelogger> what does the output look like?
[10:52] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com please
[10:52] <lelamal> apachelogger: I installed it yestarday, should I give the command again?
[10:53] <apachelogger> lelamal: please
[10:53] <apachelogger> maybe it installed to a wrong path
[10:53] <happynoff> Riddell: do you know which option I need to pass to cmake/make to enable debug messages ? 'cause I don't see the kDebug messages. thanks
[10:55] <apachelogger> hm
[10:55] <apachelogger> oh
[10:55] <apachelogger> uh
[10:55] <apachelogger> sweet
[10:55]  * apachelogger just found a way to detect the backend in use
[10:55] <apachelogger> (sort of)
[10:56] <valorie> happynoff: DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=debugfull I think
[10:56] <happynoff> valorie: I'll try it, thanks
[10:57] <lelamal> apachelogger: sorry for being slow http://pastebin.com/KR1gUsrQ
[10:58] <apachelogger> lelamal: sudo make uninstall && cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr && make && sudo make install
[10:58] <apachelogger> it wont work in /usr/local since KDE only looks for desktop files in it's default prefix
[10:58] <apachelogger> (kde4-config --prefix that is)
[10:59] <Riddell> happynoff: also make sure it's on in kdebugdialog
[11:00] <lelamal> apachelogger: http://pastebin.com
[11:00] <lelamal> apachelogger: http://pastebin.com/aXEiAhKA sorry
[11:00] <apachelogger> oh, also I was at my cardiologist's today and apparently I took no permanent damage from my illness in february \o/
[11:00] <apachelogger> lelamal: sudo make uninstall && cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr .. && make && sudo make install
[11:00] <apachelogger> sry ^^
[11:00] <apachelogger> actuallty you can ditch the uninstall
[11:01] <happynoff> Riddell: the kdebugdialog ? sorry I'm a noob at it :/
[11:02] <Riddell> happynoff: run it, it's a command
[11:02] <Riddell> lets you turn on debugging output
[11:02] <happynoff> Riddell: I just did and it seems to be enabled :)
[11:03] <happynoff> Riddell: thanks
[11:04] <lelamal> apachelogger: what do you mean? I have to remove it from the command, and give only:sudo cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr && make && sudo make install 
[11:04] <apachelogger> lelamal: cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr .. && make && sudo make install
[11:06] <lelamal> apachelogger: that was it, it's now in System Settings, thank you! :) - can I remove that folder from my desktop directory?
[11:07] <apachelogger> lelamal: yes
[11:08] <lelamal> apachelogger: ok, sorry for asking, and many thanks for the KCM and your support!
[11:08] <apachelogger> lelamal: you're very welcome
[11:12] <ryanakca> Hmmm. I seem to have bitten off more than I can chew, would someone like to tackle a package or two off of http://files.kolab.org/apt/ubuntu/dists/lucid/kdepim-e35-extras/source/ ? I had done arts, but I had a feeling I'd be shot if I didn't run 'shred -zu' on it, and kdepim proper is nearly done; I just fear running out of time.
[11:13] <Riddell> ryanakca: there's no actual kdepim source?
[11:13] <Riddell> I see only kdepim i18n
[11:14] <ryanakca> Riddell: I have http://files.kolab.org/apt/snapshots/dists/karmic/kdepim-enterprise35/source/kdepim_3.5.10.enterprise.0.20100831.1170137-kk1.dsc
[12:00] <Riddell> dpm: what is the last day for uploading packages with translations to be imported into launchpad and what is the last day to do translations in launchpad for the release?
[12:06] <dpm> hey Riddell, the last day to do translations in LP for the release is September 30th as per the LanguagePackDeadline on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule - some few packages are subject to an earlier deadline (NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline on September 16th). As per the last day to upload packages with translations, in theory it should be the same date as for LanguagePackTranslationDeadline, September 30th. However, it depends on the
[12:06] <dpm>  load of Rosetta and how quickly translations are imported, so I'd recommend uploading those a day or two earlier - or even more, if you are intending to upload a full KDE release
[12:12] <smarter_> JontheEchidna: hoy
[12:12] <JontheEchidna> moin
[12:13] <smarter_> the download page looks great now :)
[12:14] <JontheEchidna> I'd like to get the % column smaller, and the URI column bigger, but thanks :)
[12:15] <smarter_> but I don't see the point of a QHash<int, QVariant> to store data in fields we know about, wouldn't an object instantiated from a private class be more appropriate?
[12:15] <JontheEchidna> that would probably be faster
[12:16] <smarter_> yes :)
[12:16] <JontheEchidna> and a private class would be much less convoluted, as a means of getting the info
[12:16] <smarter_> no need to lookup a hash table when the fields are hard-coded
[12:17] <smarter_> (oh, we need to reimplement scrollTo to get feature parity too)
[12:17] <JontheEchidna> I'll have to head off to classes in a bit, so feel free to make the necessary changes.
[12:18] <smarter_> maybe when I'll be a bit less asleep :p
[12:19] <ScottK> dpm: We've already uploaded the final full KDE update for Maverick.
[12:19] <ScottK> apachelogger: Your kcm lacks a versioned build-depend on Qt 4.7 even though your cmake requires 4.7.
[12:20] <Riddell> ScottK: I might update the kde-l10n packages with new desktop translations for extragear bits closer to release
[12:20] <ScottK> OK.
[12:20] <apachelogger> well
[12:21] <apachelogger> technically it also builds with < 4.7 :P
[12:21] <apachelogger> that check is only there since I did not bother to implement a runtime check
[12:22] <ScottK> apachelogger: Except it won't build with < 4.7 since it will fail the CMake check.
[12:23] <apachelogger> yeah, but maverick only got 4.7...
[12:23] <ScottK> Right, but based on build-depends it'd be fine on Intrepid and later when in fact it only works on Maverick (or Lucid with PPA).
[12:24] <JontheEchidna> bbl
[12:25] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'm attempting to accept it (no promises about LP), but please fix that.
[12:26] <apachelogger> *nod*
[12:26] <apachelogger> actually it could only build on lucid
[12:26] <apachelogger> debhelper and pkg-kde-tools should only be satisfiable in lucid and above
[12:32] <apachelogger> hm
[12:32] <apachelogger> Nightrose: should I ever come to finish the release script ... it will be heaven on earth
[12:33]  * apachelogger is using it for his kcm and that thing is sweet like a jar of honey
[12:33] <ScottK> Built fast too. Already in binary New.
[12:35] <ScottK> apachelogger: Might be better to relax the CMake check.  The highest dependency in the binary is on Qt 4.5.3.
[12:36] <ScottK> So I doubt it needs more than that to build.
[12:36] <apachelogger> no
[12:36] <apachelogger> yes
[12:37] <apachelogger> ScottK: the check is only there to prevent people from using it on setups < 4.7
[12:37] <apachelogger> since I do not have a nice way of checking this at runtime yet
[12:37] <ScottK> apachelogger: Then the run-time depends versions are wrong.
[12:38] <apachelogger> probably
[12:42] <apachelogger> 1.1 released
[12:42] <apachelogger> comes with funky stuff to detect the current standard backend :D
[12:42] <apachelogger> The graphics engine in use seems to be:
[12:42] <apachelogger> ----->>>>>  Raster  <<<<<-----
[12:42] <apachelogger> :D :D :D
[12:47] <CIA-116> [libqapt] gmartres * 1172509 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/utils/qapt-batch/qaptbatch.cpp QAptBatch: sets the focus to the appropriate button for each mode
[12:47] <apachelogger> hm
[12:47] <apachelogger> ScottK: now I am not even sure if the runtime dep should be bumped...
[12:47] <apachelogger> you can still use it with say 4.6
[12:47] <apachelogger> but the setting will only apply to 4.7 apps
[12:48] <apachelogger> so if you used lucid and had a kde-devel setup with Qt 4.7 you could still use it but it would only affect your devel setup
[12:48] <ScottK> Hmmm.  What qualifies and app as a 4.7 app?
[12:48] <ScottK> OK.
[12:48] <vish> ScottK: hi, i wanted to ask , does kubuntu have any artowrk mailing list? or is there no need for a kubuntu specific one?  it seems that most of the artwork comes from upstream.. wallpapers/themes/..   
[12:48] <ScottK> vish: We use kubuntu-devel for it when needed.
[12:49] <ScottK> So no.
[12:50] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's in the archive now.  Please fix it up as you decide is best.
[12:50] <vish> ScottK: k.. but what artwork do we change in kubuntu? the boot animation is one that i can notice.. i'm trying to find out if derivatives need artwork and if some of the concerns are not addressed.. xubuntu folk need help.. so was wondering about kubuntu.
[12:50] <Riddell> I'm going to send this to upstream translators to tell them what needs doing if they want Kubuntu translated https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Translations
[12:50] <ScottK> apachelogger: Also don't forget to mark the needs-packaging bug fix released.
[12:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: I'll bump the build-dep ... runtime checking is more an upstream thing IMHO
[12:51] <ScottK> vish: We're in pretty good shape this cycle.  The installer is probably the place with the most of it.  We needed help last cycle on the branding stuff and got it (if somewhat late).
[12:52] <Riddell> vish: we change very little artwork, upstream artwork rocks, so there's not much need
[12:52] <dpm> Riddell, please send it to the ubuntu-translators list as well
[12:52] <Riddell> although I notice that usb-creator still needs an updated icon
[12:52] <Riddell> dpm: good idea
[12:53] <vish> Riddell: ScottK: neat thanks.. yeah , kubuntu upstream has pretty good artwork :)
[13:32] <dpm> Riddell, thanks a lot for the work on compiling the list of translations and for the e-mail to upstream and downstream translators!
[13:33] <ScottK> Anyone have ATI video, running maverick, and able to test some kwin changes?
[13:34] <Riddell> dpm: I still need to check all the kubuntu specific apps actually pick up the translations properly (no reason why they shouldn't but good to be sure)
[13:35] <Riddell> dpm: are you able to get the output of the upstream/downstream comparison tool sometime?
[13:35] <Riddell> dpm: are the launchpad priority translations for kubuntu matching the ones on that wiki page?
[13:36] <dpm> Riddell, sorry I missed that on the Kubuntu Translations day. I won't probably be able to do this today, but I'll add it on my TODO for tomorrow. The same with priorities: they're not matching the wiki yet, but I'll sort them out
[13:37] <ScottK> Riddell: Current i386 live CD is 13MB smaller than amd64.  Perhaps we should bump up the translations a bit on i386?
[13:39] <ulysses> Riddell: thanks for your mail, it's a great help by translations
[13:40] <Riddell> ScottK: for beta I only added a couple of translations, we should fill up the CDs with translations now
[13:44] <sheytan> Riddell hey
[13:45] <Riddell> hi sheytan 
[13:45] <sheytan> I see that the kubuntu installer slideshow polish translation sucks. I can translate it, but i need someone to tell me how ;)
[13:45] <Riddell> dpm: ^^
[13:50] <dpm> sheytan, "it sucks" is not a very accurate description. If there are translations that need fixing and you would help with that, you can submit translation suggestions at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu/pl/+translate - after that, you should contact the Polish translators to review and accept your suggestions. You can get in touch with them here: https://launchpad.net
[13:50] <dpm> /~ubuntu-l10n-pl
[13:50] <debfx> ScottK: re ati video: yes, I have a HD 4850
[13:51] <debfx> desktop effects don't work at all with the radeon driver
[13:51] <ScottK> debfx: Could you test the kdebase-workspace in my ppa and see if it's any better/different?
[13:58] <ScottK> rgreening: How come usb-creator requires a local iso to burn onto a stick?
[14:04] <apachelogger> debfx: radeon does not work on maverick at all
[14:04] <apachelogger> eh
[14:04] <apachelogger> fglrx that is
[14:04]  * apachelogger messes up the names ^^
[14:25] <apachelogger> ScottK: what should be better with your workspace package?
[14:25] <ScottK> apachelogger: Hopefully better desktop effects.  
[14:26] <apachelogger> dont see nothing different on ati
[14:26] <ScottK> apachelogger: What are you running it with?
[14:26] <apachelogger> that is ... it only works with xrender either way
[14:26] <ScottK> OK.
[14:27] <ScottK> The idea is to force some stuff back to indirect without blur so they can have effects.
[14:27] <apachelogger> on some mobility radeon hd 5000
[14:27] <ScottK> Hopefully mgraesslin will reappear and we can discuss.
[14:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: What happens when you try to change effects setting while they are activated?
[14:30] <ScottK> This is, hopefully, part of solving KDE Bug 241402.
[14:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: no error but no effects either
[14:30] <apachelogger> that is when I switch form xrender to opengl
[14:31] <apachelogger> so from my POV that is a regression because before it was not wanna let me use opengl
[14:32] <apachelogger> now it says desktop effects are on even though they are clearly not (judging from missing shadow and opaque panel...)
[14:32] <ScottK> Odd.
[14:34] <apachelogger> hm
[14:35] <apachelogger> something tells me the openoffice-kde foo expects Qt to use the native backend implicitly
[14:37] <shadeslayer> um when i logged in i had no KWin running
[14:38]  * shadeslayer wonders why
[15:02] <apachelogger> hm
[15:02] <apachelogger> seems ooo needs to make  sure whenever it tries to get a kapp that it sets the graphicssystem to native
[15:04] <apachelogger> nigelb: any talkers yet?
[15:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: quick question, why do we provide just one wallpaper on the live CD? ubuntu provides so many .... i feel sad
[15:05] <apachelogger> because we need to squeeze a crapload of gtk on the CD and KDE wallpapers consume super amounts of space
[15:05] <shadeslayer> we have gtk on the CD ? :O
[15:05] <shadeslayer> OOo ??
[15:05] <apachelogger> I am almost certain we do
[15:06] <apachelogger> also amarok is in a relationship with GTK I recon
[15:06] <apachelogger> they even have glib babies together!
[15:06] <shadeslayer> what should i blame for gtk?
[15:06] <apachelogger> yes I saw it
[15:06] <shadeslayer> GAHHHHHHH
[15:06] <apachelogger> I was going all greppy on their source
[15:06] <apachelogger> and there it was
[15:06] <apachelogger> GLIB
[15:06]  * shadeslayer would like someone to kick amarok off the CD then
[15:07] <shadeslayer> bring in bangarang... 
[15:07] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Won't help the gtk question until koffice becomes useful.
[15:07] <nigelb> apachelogger: none at all
[15:07] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ah so its OOo as well...
[15:07] <shadeslayer> we surely cant kick that off...
[15:07] <apachelogger> nigelb: you were not naggy enough then ;)
[15:08] <nigelb> apachelogger: yes, I didn't want to be kicked out
[15:09] <shadeslayer> nigelb: your a student or work ?
[15:09] <shadeslayer> *or do you work ?
[15:09] <nigelb> shadeslayer: both, why?
[15:10] <shadeslayer> nigelb: intrested in writing a paper on network security >
[15:10] <nigelb> shadeslayer: No way. Network is totally not my thing.
[15:10] <shadeslayer> ah well then.. :)
[15:12] <shadeslayer> ScottK: apparently rekonq does not have the borders on slackware plasma-netbook
[15:12] <shadeslayer> ( IIRC this is what we want right?
[15:13] <ScottK> Sounds right.
[15:13] <ScottK> BTW, rekonq + cnn video = Fail.
[15:14] <shadeslayer> hehe... someone just reported on #rekonq that it doesnt have windeco with kde 4.4.3
[15:14] <apachelogger> ScottK: I hear rekonq + ccn = fail
[15:14] <apachelogger> ScottK: time to report bug ;)
[15:14] <ScottK> apachelogger: shadeslayer's right here, so I just did.
[15:15] <apachelogger> k ^^
[15:15] <shadeslayer> its CNN's fault :D
[15:15] <shadeslayer> they dont like FOSS 
[15:16] <shadeslayer> having a looksie .. compiling...
[15:17] <shadeslayer> ScottK: any particular vids?
[15:18] <ScottK> shadeslayer: I tried a few.  None worked.  The wildcat miners one in particular
[15:18] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Works on chromium
[15:18] <shadeslayer> seems your right
[15:18] <shadeslayer> wait
[15:19] <shadeslayer> AHA!
[15:19] <shadeslayer> ScottK: blame it on stupid adblock
[15:19] <shadeslayer> ScottK: http://imgur.com/Fopzs
[15:20] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Please fix.
[15:21] <ScottK> Even when I click on it, the most I ever got was audio.
[15:21] <shadeslayer> cant really do anything, ive been complaining we need better adblock list
[15:21] <ScottK> Why can't we fix that one?
[15:21]  * shadeslayer got audio as well
[15:21] <ScottK> Where's the list?
[15:21] <shadeslayer> its the easy block adblock list
[15:21] <shadeslayer> oi
[15:22] <shadeslayer> it works with adblock now
[15:22] <shadeslayer> 0_o
[15:22] <ScottK> We install that by default?
[15:22] <shadeslayer> rekonq downloads it by default
[15:22] <shadeslayer> ( its freely available from the net )
[15:23] <shadeslayer> but i got it to work with adblock as well now
[15:23] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ downloading random stuff from the net by default I think is not a good plan.
[15:24] <shadeslayer> its just a list of regex
[15:24] <shadeslayer> and even chromium uses that list ( if you install the adblock plugin )
[15:25] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It's the by default thing I have a problem with.
[15:25] <shadeslayer> hmm...
[15:25] <ScottK> If a user asks for it, fine.
[15:25] <shadeslayer> you can easily disable it
[15:25]  * apachelogger has a problem with adblock by default anyway
[15:25] <shadeslayer> ( via a patch )
[15:25] <apachelogger> not the first time it causes problems
[15:26] <ScottK> We shouldn't ship it enabled by default.
[15:26] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: we had this discussion at a point earlier as well right?
[15:26] <apachelogger> yeah :P
[15:26] <apachelogger> I also had it disabled
[15:26] <apachelogger> jr did not agree and reverted
[15:26] <Riddell> we've had this discussion for years, in the end we've always decisded to go with giving users a useful feature by default rather than not
[15:26]  * apachelogger also does not care enough to open up that box again ^^
[15:27]  * Riddell runs out
[15:27] <ScottK> Riddell: Not working with cnn.com is a feature?
[15:27] <apachelogger> in rekonq and khtml 4.5 the situation is a bit different in that it is super easy for the user to get adblocking now 
[15:27]  * ScottK runs out too.
[15:27] <apachelogger> (since we now have autodownload facilities for the lists)
[15:30] <shadeslayer> ScottK: im trying to confirm your issue, but it seems to be fixed in git, could just be that rekonq is trying to cache a part of the video before starting it, trying to confirm with other people in #rekonq anyways
[15:31] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[15:33] <txwikinger> what is the general direction of the browser for KDE/Konqueror in the future?
[15:34] <txwikinger> Will Konqueror go to a more standard base?
[15:34] <txwikinger> The reason why I ask, I approached a webapp site to include konqueror support, and they are reluctant due to the lower usage of it
[15:35] <txwikinger> So we are somewhat at the point of where these things need to be fixed... in the browser or at the websites
[15:38] <shadeslayer> ScottK: oh and have a look here  : http://imagebin.org/113064
[15:59]  * apachelogger fixes apturl protocol file
[16:11] <apachelogger> hmmm
[16:11] <apachelogger> I wonder if there is a reason the apturl packages are arch: all and not any
[16:15] <apachelogger> nigelb: I could do a Widgetcraft talk on thursday
[16:15] <nigelb> apachelogger: you can? SERIOUSLY?
[16:15]  * nigelb hugs apachelogger 
[16:15] <debfx> ScottK: opengl desktop effects still don't work
[16:16] <apachelogger> nigelb: javascript or cpp?
[16:16] <apachelogger> last time I did javascript
[16:16] <debfx> ScottK: xrender works even though the kcm says that desktop effects aren't available on my system
[16:16]  * apachelogger also finds javascript better for first timers
[16:16] <nigelb> apachelogger: I'd leave it to you :)
[16:16] <debfx> also the all effects tab is empty
[16:16] <nigelb> apachelogger: 1600 or 1700?
[16:16] <apachelogger> 1600
[16:17] <apachelogger> I have exams on friday ^^
[16:18] <ScottK> Hmmm.
[16:22] <apachelogger> ⚠ Widgetcraft
[16:23] <nigelb> apachelogger: many thanks! Addddded.
[16:23] <apachelogger> that looks all sorts of magic
[16:23] <apachelogger> nigelb: cool, can I get a ⚠ too? ^^
[16:24] <shadeslayer> hahaha
[16:24] <apachelogger> or ❤
[16:24] <apachelogger> ❤ is always good
[16:24] <nigelb> err, I cna only see '?'
[16:24] <apachelogger> what font are you using?
[16:25] <nigelb> dunno, debian default thingy
[16:25] <apachelogger> that are two of the more standard unicode symbols :O
[16:25] <nigelb> what fail debian :/
[16:26] <apachelogger> well then, something more ascii must be used 
[16:26]  * apachelogger breaks fingers
[16:26] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: dude, help me load a kate kpart in rekonq
[16:26] <apachelogger> O|¯|_ orz
[16:26] <apachelogger> nigelb: how about that
[16:26] <shadeslayer> <3
[16:26]  * apachelogger always likes a good fall ^^
[16:26] <shadeslayer> thats a fall? :S
[16:26] <nigelb>  O|?|_ orz :/
[16:27] <apachelogger> gah
[16:27] <apachelogger> ORZ
[16:27] <apachelogger> not that awesome though
[16:27]  * apachelogger consults wikipedia
[16:27] <nigelb> apachelogger: pastebin?
[16:27] <apachelogger> (*ﾟﾉOﾟ)<ｵｵｵｵｫｫｫｫｫｫｫｰｰｰｰｰｲ!
[16:27] <apachelogger> surely that will not work either
[16:27] <shadeslayer> @_@
[16:28] <apachelogger> \,,/
[16:28] <apachelogger> there
[16:28] <apachelogger> that works
[16:28] <nigelb> (*??O?)<?????????????????!
[16:28] <apachelogger> nigelb: @}-;-'---
[16:28]  * nigelb sighs
[16:28] <nigelb> this is getting more and more comic
[16:28] <apachelogger> debian is the suck clearly :P
[16:29] <apachelogger> nigelb: just add a <3
[16:29] <apachelogger> somewhere
[16:29] <shadeslayer> nigelb: apparently everyone leaves house in Season 3 :/
[16:29] <nigelb> shadeslayer: not really.
[16:29] <nigelb> they'll be back in 6
[16:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: did you fix kate yet?
[16:29] <shadeslayer> meh
[16:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the packaging
[16:30] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: also, when you have a minute or 60 ... someone really needs to polish up my wiki page
[16:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: nope.. writing  mail to kwrite-devel asking about ABI stablity
[16:30] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: why?
[16:30] <shadeslayer> YOUR wiki page? :P
[16:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: because debian wants to confirm
[16:31] <ScottK> apachelogger: Because Debian dropped the headers because no one used them/not maintained and they want some promise of ABI stability to put them back.
 shadeslayer: the kate/kdesdk-dev was dropped because of no guarantees about api/abi stability
[16:31] <apachelogger> debian should better be concerned with their fonts being utter crap
[16:31] <nigelb> apachelogger: +1
[16:31] <ScottK> Since we want to minimize diff, it makes sense to check.
[16:31] <apachelogger> wrong priorities obviously
[16:32] <apachelogger> ScottK: I am somewhat certain that kate would want to maintain a stable API and ABI for their plugin interface ;)
[16:32] <apachelogger> which is the only package of need anyway
[16:32] <ScottK> apachelogger: Right.  We just want them to say that.
[16:32] <ScottK> You know what happens when you assume, right?
[16:32] <ScottK> (this is almost certainly and american idiom though)
[16:32] <apachelogger> I also know what happens when politics get in the way of UX
[16:33] <ScottK> mgraesslin: Good afternoon.
[16:33] <apachelogger> and if we judge ABI over UX then I am very much in doubt of our mission anyway
[16:33] <apachelogger> nigelb: so, do I get a <3
[16:34] <apachelogger> nigelb: maybe make that Plasma Widgetcraft 
[16:34] <apachelogger> Widgetcraft alone is a bit too cryptic I think
[16:34] <ScottK> mgraesslin: One of the ubuntu-x people just had me try mesa 7.9 with a driconf of http://sarvatt.com/downloads/drirc.txt and on my intel 945gme netbook I got effects by default (including blur).
[16:35] <EagleScreen> Kubuntu maverick is still giving problems to change the language and locales
[16:35] <shadeslayer> mail sent.. lets see their response
[16:35] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: hm?
[16:35] <apachelogger> so, who is going to replace lernid with something that looks decent?
[16:35] <ScottK> mgraesslin: The idea is to "switch to the GL_ARB_fragment_program blur implementation with that and that might actually work, 7.9 enabled that ARB_fragment_shader option by default which was disabled on 7.8.x and it looks like that's the extension it checks to use the GLSL shader variant instead."
[16:36] <EagleScreen> In language.selector I have configured the system language to British English
[16:36] <EagleScreen> need to pastebin..
[16:37] <nigelb> apachelogger: adding <3 :)
[16:37] <ScottK> mgraesslin: That's with a stock 4.5.1 kwin (none of your patch or the reversions)
[16:37] <EagleScreen> then my locale settings is this: http://pastebin.ca/1935112  is it correct?
[16:38] <nigelb> my irssi instance is misbehaving
[16:38] <EagleScreen> only LANGUAGE is set in en_GB
[16:38] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: you restarted?
[16:39] <EagleScreen> all the system or KDE?
[16:39] <apachelogger> the system
[16:39] <EagleScreen> yes
[16:39] <nigelb> apachelogger: you HAZ <3 :)
[16:39] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: also, do you get the same on a tty?
[16:39] <apachelogger> nigelb: thank you
[16:39] <EagleScreen> also in tty, yes
[16:40] <apachelogger> that is interesting
[16:40] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: is there a bug report about this?
[16:40] <EagleScreen> it also seems like some KDE atuff is showing the language based in locale settings and not in systemsettings->Locale language
[16:40] <CIA-116> [apturl] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100907154047-2clmy5icomcmsvno * (6 files in 3 dirs) releasing version 0.4.1ubuntu7
[16:41] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: pardon?
[16:41] <EagleScreen> now I can't be able to switch my KDE language to English, but this is an ancient bug in Kubuntu
[16:41]  * apachelogger does not follow
[16:41] <EagleScreen> okay
[16:42] <EagleScreen> there two language settings in Kubuntu: the KDE language and the System language, right?
[16:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: soo... your wiki page...
[16:42] <EagleScreen> the KDE language is the list of languages, and you have to set your preferred language on the top
[16:43] <EagleScreen> and the system language is the "Set System language" which changes locales
[16:43] <apachelogger> *nod*
[16:43] <shadeslayer> what about it?
[16:43] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: do you think I should add a list of favorite unicorn colors?
[16:43] <EagleScreen> if I change locales and I dont change the KDE language, some KDE strings change their language too
[16:44] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: it is a bit empty
[16:44] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: if you change the global language all of KDE should follow after a reboot
[16:44] <EagleScreen> I know apachelogger
[16:44] <shadeslayer> hold on.. lemme open it
[16:44] <shadeslayer> :O
[16:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: that is IT
[16:45]  * shadeslayer faints
[16:45] <EagleScreen> I wouldn't be here if I would't think some is broken
[16:45] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: huh?
[16:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: its completely empty :P
[16:46] <shadeslayer> maybe you can add a bunch of IRC channels?
[16:46] <EagleScreen> now my KDE is set to British English and all KDE stuff is in Spanish
[16:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what are we talking about?
[16:46] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: your wiki page
[16:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter
[16:46] <shadeslayer> yes that one
[16:46] <apachelogger> now I would not call that completely
[16:46] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: so what is the problem?
[16:47] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: it does not change to en_GB after reboot?
[16:47] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: have a look https://wiki.kubuntu.org/shadeslayer
[16:47] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: let me reboot one more time and report to you some things
[16:47] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I do not enough important things to document them
[16:48] <apachelogger> there is a do missing I think
[16:48] <shadeslayer> heh...
[16:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: * I have also been contributing to the Ubuntu Main archives (thanks to Riddle for sponsoring my uploads) and helped package KDE 4.5 Beta 1 for Maverick and Lucid.
[16:48] <apachelogger> spot the name typo
[16:48] <shadeslayer> :P
[16:48] <shadeslayer> Riddle ...
[16:49] <mgraesslin> ScottK: so do I understand that disabling the extension fixes the problem?
[16:49] <ScottK> mgraesslin: It appears to.
[16:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: so what do I write "I am supreme master of the universe and want to become supreme ranter too"?
[16:49] <ScottK> At least on the one system I've tried it on.
[16:49] <mgraesslin> that's all I want :-)
[16:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/shadeslayer/Header << copy and modify according to needs id say
[16:50] <shadeslayer> then go on about how you have your own distro.. fluffy
[16:50] <ScottK> mgraesslin: I need to try it on more systems.
[16:50] <mgraesslin> and a way better solution to fix it in the driver instead of trying more quircks in the software
[16:50] <shadeslayer> maybe ask someone to give wiki a fluffy theme? :P
[16:50] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: there is a bit of a problem with that header... in that it duplicates information from launchpad and contains highly variable information ;)
[16:50] <apachelogger> ha!
[16:50] <mgraesslin> sure and I think that FBO are also a limitation
[16:50] <ScottK> mgraesslin: Is it possible you could detect whether or not to use GLSL a different way?
[16:50] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you know how it is with getting things past the canonical sysadmins ;)
[16:51] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I propose a new wiki theme today and we might have it in time for 11.04 :P
[16:51] <shadeslayer> true :D
[16:51] <mgraesslin> ScottK: well that's why there are things like extensions. To check at runtime if it is available
[16:51] <mgraesslin> the only other option I see is to do serious testing during startup which is probably nothing we want to do either
[16:52] <ScottK> Slowing startup even more is not a good option.
[16:53] <apachelogger> I should create a startup that creates a website that customers can use as intarwebs identity
[16:53] <apachelogger> a CV of some sort
[16:53] <ScottK> mgraesslin: I still have the problem of the relevant bug about changing effects with them activated freezes the screen.
[16:53] <apachelogger> so apachelogger does not have to write that crap on every page he comes across
[16:53] <ScottK> So that still needs sorting.
[16:54] <mgraesslin> I think we can only solve this one by enforcing indirect rendering
[16:54] <EagleScreen_> first: language-selector fails to change locales even after reboot
[16:54] <mgraesslin> and as soon as we do that blur breaks in the fbo
[16:54] <ScottK> mgraesslin: OK.  So we still need to pursue your patch/reversions.
[16:54] <ScottK> Ah.
[16:54] <mgraesslin> and the breakage can only be detected with the patch
[16:55] <mgraesslin> oh and than we still have the crashers and there is nothing we can do about it
[16:55]  * shadeslayer points that rekonq release is in 5 days
[16:55] <EagleScreen_> but this language-selector bug not worry me becaus it is possibly a eventual bug which will be fixed soon
[16:56] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: how do you load a kpart????
[16:56] <shadeslayer> gimme a example
[16:56] <ScottK> mgraesslin: Crashers are a problem, but if it crashes during a configuration change and automatically restarts, that's a huge improvement over just freezing.
[16:56] <EagleScreen_> the main problem is that I see that Kubuntu language switching is a few crazy since years
[16:56] <debfx> shadeslayer: is it still necessary to delete the rekonq configs after upgrading?
[16:57] <mgraesslin> of course, but I fear that it might trigger kwin's "we crashed so we disable compositing" feature
[16:57] <shadeslayer> debfx: yeah.. configs are not compatible
[16:57]  * shadeslayer hates that 
[16:57] <mgraesslin> and that one is only revertable by manually changing the kwinrc
[16:57] <mgraesslin> (I will change that for 4.6)
[16:57] <ScottK> Ouch.
[16:58] <ScottK> Disable effects, change config, re-enable effects is at the level of a not totally ridiculous work around.
[16:58] <EagleScreen_> there are many strings in Kubuntu which does not follow the KDE language settings in systemsettings, and thay does in other distributions like Debian or openSUSE, so I think some must be broken or wrongly done in Kubuntu
[16:58] <debfx> shadeslayer: I could live with it if rekonq did reset the configs instead of just being broken
[16:59] <shadeslayer> debfx: im looking into it, no one on #rekonq, do you want to send a mail to rekonq@kde.org ?
[16:59] <ScottK> EagleScreen_: We'd need a list of strings and language to check.  Generally we are supposed to be preferring upstream translations where they are available.
[16:59] <mgraesslin> if I were able to reproduce I would try to do that programmatically, but I think that's what kwin already does
[17:00] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kparts/html/namespaceKParts_1_1ComponentFactory.html#a71eb5a47ba2fab6636de27f0535f8137
[17:02] <shadeslayer> well.. if im successful this will take about.. 2 mins
[17:02] <EagleScreen_> ScottK: If I install Kubuntu in English, all is well transtated into English, but if I later want to switch language to Spanish, a lot of string does not change their language. By the same way, if I install Kubuntu in Spanish, all is well translated to Spanish, but if I later want to change the language to English, a lot of string does not change their language, the problem is changing the language, and this is happening since 
[17:02] <EagleScreen_> several releases
[17:02] <ScottK> Ah.  I see.  No idea about that.
[17:03] <EagleScreen_> when I switch langage in Debian or Suse, it changes with no problem
[17:03] <dpm> EagleScreen_, the best thing would be to report a bug and mention exactly which strings don't get translated upon language change, so that this can be tracked down.
[17:04] <apachelogger> well
[17:04]  * apachelogger switches languages around
[17:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: btw the class that reads file extensions was QFile right?
[17:04] <EagleScreen_> yes, and I will be able to do it when this locale issue i am having to be fixed/cleared
[17:04] <apachelogger> no
[17:04] <shadeslayer> then?
[17:04] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: see, that is why you should have found it yourself instead of me telling you
[17:04] <shadeslayer> ok lemme see then :D
[17:04] <apachelogger> if you had found i yourself you would remember the name
[17:04] <apachelogger> so here we go again
[17:05] <apachelogger> search for it :P
[17:05] <EagleScreen_> now in maverik i feel that KDE language has been following locale settings instead of KDE language settings in systemsettings, is it intended?
[17:05]  * shadeslayer looks up
[17:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it would be nice if one could set the parenting windowid for qapt-batch
[17:06] <apachelogger> EagleScreen_: just dont use the KDE setting?
[17:06] <JontheEchidna> Options:
[17:06] <JontheEchidna>   --attach <winid>          Attaches the window to an X app specified by winid
[17:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: oh, why does language-selector not use it?
[17:07] <JontheEchidna> probably because it didn't use it with install-package
[17:07] <JontheEchidna> I just did s/install-package/qapt-batch
[17:07] <apachelogger> ah
[17:07] <apachelogger> IC
[17:07] <apachelogger> something to look into then
[17:07] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ^
[17:07] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: dont use thing becaus they are broken is not a solution
[17:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot21.png
[17:09] <apachelogger> the sizing here looks weird
[17:09] <JontheEchidna> yeah, there's not really a good way to get the window itself to resize...
[17:09] <JontheEchidna> or at least I've not found one
[17:09] <EagleScreen_> you are the developpers, if you dont know how this language tools are expected to work, who know??
[17:10] <shadeslayer> ??
[17:10] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: whut???
[17:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: mgraesslin will surely know ;)
[17:10] <shadeslayer> ->n00b();
[17:11] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: but I think you just need to resize the mainwidget to its new hint
[17:11] <apachelogger> or set the max size to the hint
[17:11] <mgraesslin> I think I need context
[17:11] <apachelogger> since you probably need to max size it for the netbook usecase
[17:12] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: language-selector-qt does not invoke qapt-batch with its --attach option which would enable qapt-batch to be arranged as transient window of language-selector-qt ... so that should be fixed
[17:12] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: we were wondering how to resize a window after content was removed
[17:13] <JontheEchidna> more specifically, a KProgressDialog after buttons are removed
[17:13] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot22.png
[17:13] <apachelogger> whom do I annoy with that?
[17:13] <apachelogger> dpm: 
[17:14] <shadeslayer> i still have no idea what you guys are talking about ..but ill nod anyways .... *nod
[17:14] <mgraesslin> hmm that should be possible with Qt
[17:14] <apachelogger> dpm: there are two white spaces between German. and Select
[17:14] <apachelogger> not sure where they come from
[17:14]  * apachelogger notes that language-selector-qt is a butterfly like mess
[17:15] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: no nodding, fixing :P
[17:15]  * dpm was just about to make a remark along those lines as well
[17:15] <apachelogger> oh oh oh
[17:15] <apachelogger> idea
[17:15] <apachelogger> I think that might be caused from GTK translations using \n
[17:16] <apachelogger> or maybe not
[17:16] <dpm> hm, but why shouldn't the kde app interpret \n as line break?
[17:16] <dpm> they all use gettext
[17:16] <apachelogger> there are actually 2 whitespaces in the source :O
[17:16] <dpm> :-)
[17:17] <apachelogger> dpm: Qt widgets in richtext mode will not interpret \n IIRC
[17:17] <apachelogger> only <br/> or <p>
[17:17] <dpm> ah, I didn't know that one
[17:18] <apachelogger> well, maybe it changed by now but I certainly remember that there was something going on with \n in our python apps that share translations with GTK uis
[17:19] <apachelogger> dpm: do you think it would be wise to change that typo at this point in the cycle?
[17:19] <apachelogger> considering it is fairly minor
[17:19] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: IT WAS QFILEINFO!!!!!
[17:19] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: rihto
[17:19] <apachelogger> righto even
[17:20] <dpm> apachelogger, I wouldn't at this point, we're past UI freeze. It is really minor and would break translations for lots of languages
[17:20] <shadeslayer> oh i said QFile .. forgot to add info there ... 
[17:20] <EagleScreen_> but I am going to tell you how I think this is expected to work: the KDE applications language should follow the preferred language in this list: http://img824.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plasmadesktopsy1531.png , and locale settings (which haven't why to coincide with Desktop language) should be set in this window: http://img824.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plasmadesktopqx1531.png , to switch KDE language you must change the first 
[17:20] <apachelogger> *nod*
[17:20] <EagleScreen_> list and not the second, and if this is not working like this, then something is broken in Kubuntu sice years
[17:20] <apachelogger> actually
[17:20] <apachelogger> that message as a whole is crap
[17:20] <apachelogger> "Select them from the Add Language button."
[17:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ill looksie after i fix0r rekonq
[17:20] <apachelogger> that does not mean anything to me
[17:21] <apachelogger> EagleScreen_: that is a bogus assumption, the former regulates language at user level and the latter at system level
[17:21] <apachelogger> also the former supports a broken concept of language fallback order
[17:22] <apachelogger> which is about the most useless thing I have seen in my life, also I think it is broken in KDE itself
[17:22] <apachelogger> well
[17:22] <apachelogger> restarting to get a german system
[17:22] <EagleScreen_> I dont think so apachelogger
[17:23] <EagleScreen_> I dont understand why you can think this is a "bogus assumption"
[17:23] <EagleScreen_> it is expected to work like that
[17:24] <EagleScreen_> some applications and Gnome (i think) show the language following the locale settings
[17:24] <apachelogger> changing the latter without changing the former will still change the KDE language as long as the former is not set
[17:25] <apachelogger> so what is supposed to be not be translated?
[17:25] <EagleScreen_> but KDE has to follow this former
[17:25] <apachelogger> I just switched from en_US to de_AT (by just logout and login) 
[17:25] <apachelogger> EagleScreen_: the former should not even be there, since as you stated it only manipulates KDE
[17:26] <apachelogger> which is utterly useless
[17:26] <apachelogger> if I want my desktop to be french than I want Kopete AND nautilus to be french
[17:26] <apachelogger> not one and the other some other language
[17:27] <apachelogger> OH
[17:27] <apachelogger> OHHHH
[17:27] <EagleScreen_> the former is for missing translations
[17:27] <apachelogger> OHHHHHHHHH
[17:27]  * Riddell wanders back home
[17:27] <apachelogger> EagleScreen_: for missing translations?
[17:27] <EagleScreen_> if a string is not available in some language, it will showed in the second
[17:27] <apachelogger> right
[17:27] <EagleScreen_> but this is out of our discussion
[17:27] <apachelogger> that might be why your system is half spanish and half english
[17:28] <EagleScreen_> not it is not the cause
[17:28] <EagleScreen_> i am sure
[17:28] <apachelogger> so what is the cause then?
[17:28] <apachelogger> because I just switched from en_US to de_AT and have no problems whatosever
[17:28] <EagleScreen_> I hopped any of you would know
[17:29] <EagleScreen_> may be Launchpad translations?
[17:29] <shadeslayer> i have no idea how to do this ....
[17:29] <EagleScreen_> mya be lnaguage-selector
[17:29] <apachelogger> I doubt the latter because it worked for me
[17:30] <EagleScreen_> kde-language-pack packages? what are they for?
[17:30] <apachelogger> translations
[17:30] <EagleScreen_> the rest of distros only use the kde-l10n packages
[17:30]  * apachelogger installs spanish
[17:30] <dpm> EagleScreen_, I've read the conversation, but I'm not sure what the problem is. Can you summarize it and post the output of the 'locale' command somewhere?
[17:30] <apachelogger> EagleScreen_: they also do not have launchpad
[17:31] <EagleScreen_> sure. dpm
[17:31] <EagleScreen_> locales: http://pastebin.ca/1935142
[17:31]  * apachelogger switches to spanish
[17:32] <dpm> basically, apart from installing language packs, fonts and input methods, the only thing that language-selector does is to write to the locale variables to change language
[17:32] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: are you swotiching locales?
[17:32] <dpm> ah, you've been bitten by the LANGUAGE bug, let me find the link...
[17:33] <EagleScreen_> dpm: curently in maverick changing locales with language-selector seems to be broken for me
[17:33] <EagleScreen_> but dpm it is not the end of the matter
[17:34] <dpm> EagleScreen_, apachelogger, that's bug 553162 - notice the LANG and LANGUAGE environment variables there
[17:34] <dpm> the bug mentions gdm, but I guess it applies to kdm as well
[17:35] <dpm> in principle, this should be only visible in applications which not follow the standard order in reading the LANGUAGE and LANG variables.
[17:35] <EagleScreen_> the matter is that in Kubuntu, since years, there are a lot of string that does not switch the language when you switche the KDE language in systemsettings, they always stay in the language in which Kubuntu was installed
[17:35] <dpm> Due to those apps you end up with a half translated system
[17:36] <dpm> and they expose the underlying bug in language selector as well
[17:36] <apachelogger> well
[17:36] <EagleScreen_> dpm: read my last message
[17:36] <apachelogger> no
[17:36] <apachelogger> the problem is
[17:36] <apachelogger> Kubuntu has to locale settings
[17:36] <apachelogger> one at KDE level
[17:36] <apachelogger> one at system level
[17:36]  * nigelb hands apachelogger a 'w' for to
[17:36] <apachelogger> if nothing configured at KDE level it will just use system level
[17:37] <apachelogger> IF there is something configured at KDE level it will use whatever is configured at KDE level
[17:37] <dpm> EagleScreen_, I did read it, but until there is a bug stating exactly which strings don't get translated, it is really difficult to track it down
[17:37] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: Kuubntu is not following that
[17:37] <apachelogger> IF the language configured at KDE level is incomplete it will fall back to system language
[17:38] <apachelogger> IF KDE language is en_GB AND system language is not en_US you get a mixed language setup
[17:38] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: and how is possible that the language translation is incomplete in Kubuntu and not in the rest of distros?
[17:38] <apachelogger> BECAUSE en_GB is an incomplete translation (for obvious reasons)
[17:38] <EagleScreen_> that is not a reason
[17:39] <EagleScreen_> If i'd set en_US under en_GB the incomplete translation is still there
[17:40] <EagleScreen_> anyway, I cannot see the evolution of this bug in maverick until I find a way to change locales out
[17:41] <EagleScreen_> but this translation issue is in Kubuntu since KDE3 age, so I do not expect to be magically fixed in maverick
[17:42] <apachelogger> EagleScreen_: where exactly did I claim that KDE falls back to the next in list?
 IF the language configured at KDE level is incomplete it will fall back to system language
[17:42] <apachelogger> install german, configure german via the KDE setting and behold that your system will be german
[17:43] <apachelogger> install french, configure french via the KDE setting and behold that your system will be french
[17:44] <apachelogger> this is nothing but an incompleteness in en_GB coming from the assumption that en_GB will fall through to en_US, which it usually does, unless configured for KDE only in which case it falls to the system language
[17:44] <apachelogger> IF the system language is then not en_US you get a mixed language KDE
[17:44] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: i am sure that is not the only problem
[17:45] <apachelogger> and I am sure that this is exactly the problem you were complaining about
[17:45] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: do you mean to have a fully english Kubuntu, do I need set English in locale and also in KDE?
[17:45] <apachelogger> no
[17:45] <apachelogger> read what I wrote
[17:45] <apachelogger> EITHER
[17:45] <EagleScreen_> you said that KDE fallback into locales
[17:45] <apachelogger> you set your system locale to english AND do not have anything configured in KDE
[17:45] <apachelogger> OR
[17:46] <apachelogger> you set KDE to some english version but then the system locale MUST BE en_US
[17:46] <ScottK> apachelogger: Since you're so hot with KCMs, Could you whip one up that allows one to change the system name easily?  That choice got removed from the installer and I think we're going to need to make it easy for people to mess with it post install.
[17:46] <apachelogger> ScottK: I can, question is if we should not incorporate this in some existing thing
[17:47] <ScottK> Gotta run.  
[17:47] <ScottK> apachelogger: No idea.  You tell me.
[17:47] <apachelogger> having such tiny KCMs is a bit of a waste
[17:47]  * ScottK is off to $WORK meetings.
[17:47] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, I dunno where we could squeeze it in... :S
[17:48] <smarter_> JontheEchidna: I'd like to backport my latest qapt commit, but I can't find the branch ^^'
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> smarter_: http://websvn.kde.org/branches/stable/extragear-kde4/sysadmin/
[17:49] <smarter_> thanks!
[17:50]  * apachelogger thinks that language-selector needs a rewrite in c(++)
[17:50] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: many times I have installed kde-l10n-en-gb in other distros, and the KDE was well translated to English even having es_ES.utf8 locales
[17:50] <smarter_> apachelogger: it needs to be integrated in the kcm
[17:51] <smarter_> and since you seem to like kcms... :p
[17:51] <apachelogger> smarter_: I know, but that will not come to pass with pyth0rn
[17:51] <apachelogger> thanks to sip the other way around would be no problem :S
[17:51] <smarter_> pyth0rsaur
[17:51] <apachelogger> ^^
[17:52] <smarter_> how do I tell svn diff to give me the latest rev changes without manually specifiying the rev number?
[17:56] <smarter_> svn diff -r PREV:COMMITTED, great.
[17:59] <CIA-116> gmartres * 1172627 * branches/stable/extragear-kde4/sysadmin/libqapt/utils/qapt-batch/qaptbatch.cpp QAptBatch: sets the focus to the appropriate button for each mode (backport of r1172509)
[18:00] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: people in #ubuntu+1 think rekonq is fast :P
[18:04] <apachelogger> fast in crashig
[18:06] <shadeslayer> :P
[18:06] <apachelogger> holy smokes
[18:07] <apachelogger> opensuse's cd start screen is like 30000000000 times better looking than ours
[18:07] <apachelogger> WTF
[18:07] <shadeslayer> yaeh
[18:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: suse in a box?
[18:07] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: in what box?
[18:07] <apachelogger> OMG
[18:07] <apachelogger> opensuse's bootscreen is like 6000000000000 times better looking than ours
[18:07] <apachelogger> WTF^2
[18:08]  * Sput thinks those are made-up numbers though
[18:08] <apachelogger> well, at least the installer is not that convincing
[18:08] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: suse in a VBox ?
[18:08] <apachelogger> though I like their buttons I think
[18:09] <Riddell> pointless start screens are annoying, at least it's fairly easy to close
[18:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: why would I install that pour soul in a vbox?
[18:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: I mean the one where you select what to do ... install ... run ... etc
[18:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: did you try 11.3?
[18:10] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: you may have fallen in your own assumption, now I have done a test in Fedora 12 KDE, it becomes translated to English when I set KDE in British English, and locales are still in es_ES
[18:10] <EagleScreen_> the same happens in Debian and Suse
[18:11] <EagleScreen_> now in maverick i have KDE set in British English, why is all Kubuntu in Spanish?
[18:12] <Riddell> you'd need to check the sources, but probably the British English translation has strings removed where they match the US English translation
[18:12] <apachelogger> bureau KDE
[18:12] <apachelogger> hihi
[18:12] <apachelogger> ^^
[18:13] <apachelogger> sounds funny
[18:14] <apachelogger> oh la la
[18:14] <apachelogger> 2.5 Go
[18:14] <apachelogger> that is gonna take a bit
[18:16] <apachelogger> what I do not get, why is their installer using non-oxyge icons?
[18:16] <EagleScreen_> then in Kubuntu to use British English, am I forced to have locales in en_US?
[18:16] <Riddell> because they're 0wned by gnome fanboys
[18:16] <apachelogger> EagleScreen_: but we were not talking about fedora or debian or suse, but kubuntu
[18:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: ah, right, forgot that ^^
[18:17] <EagleScreen_> then Kubuntu kde-l10n-en-gb is incomplete (almost empty) while the package in the other distros is complete, is this a good idea?
[18:17] <Riddell> the first stage of their installer is mostly unthemed, the second stage uses a stylesheet, which seems inconsistent
[18:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: what first stage?
[18:18] <apachelogger> for me i was themed all the way through
[18:18] <Riddell> EagleScreen_: the relevant package is language-pack-kde-en
[18:18] <Riddell> EagleScreen_: and language-pack-kde-en-base
[18:18] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot23.png
[18:18] <apachelogger> like that
[18:19] <EagleScreen_> Riddell: what do you mean? sorry
[18:19] <Riddell> apachelogger: that's not what I got when using their KDE CD image, first stage was plain oxygen theme (second stage is after a reboot I think, very 2005)
[18:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think what differs us from other distros is that we export the system lang via kdm which makes it primary default rather than en_US
[18:19] <apachelogger> hm... I am on a DVD media here
[18:19] <Riddell> EagleScreen_: the package with the translation files in it is language-pack-kde-en and language-pack-kde-en-base
[18:20] <apachelogger> AFAIK they are not too keen on the CD foo
[18:20]  * apachelogger also knows why :P
[18:20] <EagleScreen_> Riddell: then what are kde-l10n-xxx for?
[18:21] <Riddell> EagleScreen_: they're the upstream packages, the files all get extracted and put into launchpad
[18:21] <Riddell> we keep them for docs
[18:21] <apachelogger> and data files such as audio
[18:23] <EagleScreen_> then kde-l10n are upstream. and language-pack-kde are launchpad?
[18:23] <Riddell> yes
[18:24] <Riddell> it's a useful exercise to compare the two
[18:24] <EagleScreen_> and KDE in Kubuntu uses language-pack-kde instead of kde-l10n-es?
[18:24] <Riddell> language-pack-kde-es is where the translations are
[18:25] <EagleScreen_> and as I see, no translations for en-gb
[18:26] <EagleScreen_> and I think that the KDE language form always fallback in locales and not in the second language in the list
[18:26] <EagleScreen_> at leats in Kubuntu
[18:27]  * apachelogger thinks that is what he said quite a while ago already
[18:27] <smarter_> apachelogger: opensuse in French? Is that done to make the installation more challenging? :p
[18:27] <apachelogger> why challenging? :P
[18:27] <EagleScreen_> yes, now I understand you when soy said thet the form has no sense
[18:29] <lex79> Riddell: can you upload qimageblitz from here https://launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi/+archive/ppa/+packages ?
[18:29] <smarter_> apachelogger: I guess as long as you know what effacer, supprimer and formater mean you won't make too much of a mess :p
[18:29] <EagleScreen_> but the form could be designed to fallback in the second language in the list, this may be a KDE upstream bug
[18:31] <apachelogger> smarter_: I think my french is good enough to use a system :P
[18:32]  * smarter_ should try installing an OS in German, but only in a VM :p
[18:33]  * Sput never installs OSes in German
[18:33] <Sput> translations generally are too abysmal to be used in production
[18:34] <apachelogger> hm
[18:34] <dpm> err... I disagree
[18:34] <apachelogger> opensuse with autologin goes pretty fast
[18:34] <shadeslayer> im off to sleep.. cya tmmrw
[18:34] <lex79> autologin by default?
[18:34] <apachelogger> o/ shadeslayer
[18:34] <lex79> night shadeslayer
[18:35] <apachelogger> lex79: their autologin checkbox is checked by default
[18:35] <apachelogger> whereas hours is not
[18:35] <Sput> dpm: in my experience, translations are often "overdone", but translating things into the target language that are much easier to say and understand in english
[18:35]  * apachelogger thinks having it checked is nicer though
[18:35] <dpm> Sput, there are many many translation teams that work really hard to ensure good translation quality, especially on those languages where Kubuntu or Ubuntu is used in governmental or educational institutions
[18:35] <Sput> dpm: one of my favourite examples, "systray" is officially translated into "Systemleistenkontrollabschnitt" on Windows
[18:36] <apachelogger> lex79: in fact a popular german computer magazine once did a security review of windows (I think vista) vs. osx vs. suse
[18:36] <apachelogger> suse lost
[18:36] <apachelogger> with reasons like autologin by default is a security threat
[18:36] <Sput> maybe it's better in other languages, but at least for German I find many translations very awkward, that is even true for books and stuff
[18:36] <Sput> and I wouldn't even blame the translators
[18:36] <lex79> apachelogger: I see, but autologin is comfortable :P
[18:36] <apachelogger> lex79: I agree
[18:37] <dpm> Sput, ah, but that's proprietary software translated by a translation agency :P in Kubuntu at least you can make suggestions for better translations :)
[18:37] <apachelogger> lex79: also I do not see a point in not having autologin by default
[18:37] <Sput> I can imagine that it's much more useful for older/"normal" people though, who haven't been in touch with the English notions that much
[18:37] <lex79> users don't like type the passwords, me too ;)
[18:37] <apachelogger> lex79: corporate environments will rollout images and I think it should somewhat easy to turn off autologin once a second user account was created
[18:38] <lex79> right
[18:38] <Sput> dpm: thing is, if I had a say, many words would just stay English :) there is no good German word for "system tray" other than "systray"... of course, my grandma wouldn't understand "systray", but I doubt she would understand "Systemleistenkontrollabschnitt" either :)
[18:38] <apachelogger> Sput: german KDE translation have the target of being understandable by grandmamas
[18:39] <Sput> looks like in kubuntu/KDE it's "Systemleiste" which is already much better than the windows version, but semantically not entirely correct (translated back it'd be "system panel")
[18:41] <apachelogger> yay
[18:41] <apachelogger> suse even comes with vim installed
[18:41] <apachelogger> hooray
[18:41] <apachelogger> I am in love again
[18:41] <apachelogger> what a wonderful feeling
[18:41] <Sput> apachelogger: switching distros?
[18:41] <Sput> Gentoo comes with nano!
[18:42] <apachelogger> gross
[18:42] <apachelogger> just as gross as you bun too
[18:42] <dpm> Sput, you are assuming that everyone can understand a bit of English. While that might be true for e.g. Western languages, English might look completely different to someone with a different cultural background. In that sense, translations make the system accessible for him/her
[18:43] <jussi> nano <3
[18:43] <jussi> :D
[18:44]  * apachelogger does not think his sister knows what a system tray is
[18:44] <lex79> someone here use nano to hack
[18:45] <apachelogger> that would be quite the PITA
[18:45] <jussi> anyone know how to get rid of this? N: Ignoring file 'google-talkplugin.list.save' in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension
[18:45] <lex79> you know who is :P
[18:46] <Sput> dpm: I do understand that reasoning
[18:46] <Sput> after all, I've spent a lot of effort (with a lot of your help too) to make quassel easily translateable :)
[18:46] <nixternal> apachelogger: got any pics of this installer/boot screen you are referring to that looks hot? I don't remember it when installing a couple of weeks ago
[18:46] <Sput> but running an OS in my native languagee certainly isn't for me
[18:48] <dpm> yeah, that's a personal choice :)
[18:48] <apachelogger> nixternal: no
[18:48] <apachelogger> nixternal: can get you one later
[18:49] <nixternal> well that isn't any good. i wanna see it now dangit
[18:50]  * apachelogger throws mono at nixternal
[18:52] <EagleScreen_> apachelogger: please, look at this http://img441.imageshack.us/f/plasmadesktopaw1531.png/
[18:53] <EagleScreen_> as mentioned there, KDE should fallback to the second language on the list, not to locales
[18:54] <nixternal> apachelogger: I had mono once, when I was like 13 years old, the kissing disease. I didn't like it then and I still don't like it :p
[18:55] <apachelogger> nixternal: that is why you get it :P
[19:06] <apachelogger> :/
[19:06] <apachelogger> no dpm
[19:08] <apachelogger> hmmmm
[19:08] <apachelogger> hmmmmmmmmmm
[19:18] <apachelogger> what a load of crap
[19:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: our en_GB translations are pretty nakkid
[19:18] <apachelogger> systemsettings.mo for example does not seem ot contain any translation at all
[19:18] <apachelogger> launchpad however contains them
[19:19]  * apachelogger expects madness in langpack-o-matic
[19:19] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: that is changed in 4.5
[19:20] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: this is new in 4.5 or the newer way is to fallback to locales and the help is outdated?
[19:21] <apachelogger> well it certainly does not claim that it is a fallback list anymore
[19:21]  * apachelogger will remove that widget now
[19:23] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: where did you find the information about this change?
[19:23] <apachelogger> in my system
[19:23] <EagleScreen> in nyour system?
[19:23] <EagleScreen> did you ask in #kde-devel?
[19:25] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot24.png
[19:25] <Tscheesy> ow - poor you :)
[19:26] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: are you using trunk?
[19:26] <apachelogger> now I am using 4.5
[19:26] <EagleScreen> why our help is different then?
[19:27] <apachelogger> I dunno
[19:27] <EagleScreen> or have you deleted the rest of the text by yourself?
[19:27] <apachelogger> doesnt matter
[19:27] <apachelogger> that thing goes away
[19:28] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: change the list by some widget to can select just one language then
[19:28] <EagleScreen> some people may want different languages for locale and KDE, in addiction, KDE forces me to have one language on the list
[19:29] <EagleScreen> wow
[19:30] <EagleScreen> sometimes appears one text and sometimes the other
[19:32] <EagleScreen> oh, if you put the mouse over the widget, the updated help is showed, but if you click with the "what is this" the outdated help is showed
[19:34] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: software-properties will not honor this setting
[19:34] <apachelogger> neither will openoffice
[19:34] <apachelogger> neither will firefox
[19:34] <apachelogger> neither will any gnome application
[19:34] <apachelogger> neither will any TK appliction
[19:34] <apachelogger> neither will any application that does not use KDE
[19:34] <EagleScreen> yes I know
[19:34] <EagleScreen> only KDE applications
[19:35] <apachelogger> so what is the reationale of only having KDE applications appear in another language?
[19:35] <apachelogger> make that "user-executed KDE applications"
[19:35] <EagleScreen> if I set locales to english only to have KDE in English.. will I be able to write characters like ñ ?
[19:36] <apachelogger> yes
[19:36] <EagleScreen> then, are you going to use only the locales way?
[19:37] <EagleScreen> like Gnome?
[19:37] <apachelogger> yes
[19:37] <apachelogger> I mean
[19:37] <apachelogger> a) that list is crap
[19:37] <apachelogger> b) it is not applying to non-KDE apps
[19:37] <EagleScreen> ok, I hope for this not to give problems
[19:37] <apachelogger> until those things are fixed I consider the KDE thing broken
[19:38] <EagleScreen> for me that KDE thing works in other distros
[19:38] <EagleScreen> but not tested in 4.5, only in 4.4
[19:39] <EagleScreen> if language-selector is broken, is there another way to chnage locales?
[19:40] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot25.png
[19:40] <apachelogger> smarter_: what do you think?
[19:40] <apachelogger> maybe add icons?
[19:41] <EagleScreen> it is more clear now
[19:41] <EagleScreen> but I will change if the fallback list is working in other distros in KDE 4.5
[19:41] <EagleScreen> I will test*
[19:52] <EagleScreen> so it is expected to work, apachelogger
[19:52] <apachelogger> and yet it doesnt
[19:52] <EagleScreen> anyway, will you remove the fallback list?
[19:53] <EagleScreen> have you got any idea about why Kubuntu fallbacks to locales?
[19:58] <apachelogger> magic?
[19:59] <EagleScreen> black magic I'd say
[20:01] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: when your new change to be released, I will do a fresh Kubuntu maverick install and I will test if the ancient translations problems is still reproducible
[20:01] <EagleScreen> I mean the string what always stay in the language in which Kuubntu was installed
[20:01] <EagleScreen> but I supose I have to wait for language-selector fix
[20:04] <apachelogger> actually
[20:04] <apachelogger> it looks like fallback is working just fine
[20:04] <apachelogger> at least for desktop files
[20:04] <EagleScreen> in maverick?
[20:04] <apachelogger> yes
[20:05] <EagleScreen> okay
[20:05] <EagleScreen> listen
[20:05] <EagleScreen> in maverick, I have locales in es_ES and I cannot change them
[20:05] <apachelogger> hm, or maybe not
[20:06] <EagleScreen> I set on the list first British English and seconf US English, I apply, I re-login, and all is in Spanish
[20:06] <lex79> apachelogger: there are two typo in the description of OpenGL in your kcm
[20:06] <apachelogger> jesus
[20:06] <lex79> "iusing" and "wiht"
[20:06] <apachelogger> lol
[20:06] <apachelogger> ^^
[20:06] <apachelogger> lex79: git merge directive plz
[20:07] <apachelogger> or merge request for that matter
[20:07] <apachelogger> hihihihi
[20:07] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: now I doubt that works in KDE even
[20:08] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: install some other language and use that as secondary language
[20:08] <apachelogger> then fallback works
[20:09] <EagleScreen> in KDE if only have to set British in the first place
[20:09] <EagleScreen> even if I have locales in spanish
[20:10] <EagleScreen> testing first British and Portuguese as second..
[20:10] <apachelogger> engb is crippled
[20:11] <apachelogger> not sure why
[20:11] <apachelogger> probably to save space
[20:11] <dantti> does someone knows is qt sqlite is compiled diferently on debian? cause with the same db it's so much slower on kubuntu..
[20:11] <apachelogger> however that is bound to the assumption that en_GB is system locale and falls back to C
[20:11] <dantti> s/is/if (first is)
[20:11] <EagleScreen> yes but British is not falling back to US, it is falling back to Spanish (locales)
[20:11] <apachelogger> dantti: I think that largely depends on the sqlite version under the hood
[20:13] <dantti> apachelogger: hmm on debian it's 3.7 and here 3.6, but it's soo slow to do a simple while (query.next()) {};
[20:15] <apachelogger> dantti: well, I think our Qt package is pretty close to Debian's so I would think sqlite is at fault
[20:15] <apachelogger> dantti: maybe try with 3.7
[20:15] <dantti> apachelogger: right, I'll try to upgrade to 3.7
[20:15] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: we have kde-l10n-pt and kde-l10n-ptbr
[20:16] <EagleScreen> kde-l10n-ptbr is for Brazil
[20:16] <EagleScreen> and the other is for?
[20:16] <EagleScreen> Portugal?
[20:16] <apachelogger> supposedly
[20:17] <EagleScreen> so it says Portugues do Brazil
[20:17] <EagleScreen> both are for Brazil?
[20:17] <apachelogger> dunno that description is drained from some desktop file IIRC
[20:17] <apachelogger> doesnt sound right though
[20:18] <EagleScreen> ok now British is first and Portuguese is second, and apps are in portuguese not Spanish
[20:18] <EagleScreen> that is the expected 
[20:19] <EagleScreen> but it can be because portuguese was the last used lang
[20:21] <dantti> wow, even on sqlite3 cmd line through a ssh my query runs much faster.. probably 3.7 is a must ..
[20:22] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: it could be falling back well to all languages but US English?
[20:22] <apachelogger> yes
[20:22] <EagleScreen> how and why?
[20:22] <apachelogger> we do not know it seems
[20:23] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: where does it say portugues do brazil?
[20:24] <EagleScreen> in the widget you want to remove
[20:24] <apachelogger> ah
[20:26] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: my conclusion is that British fall back well to all languages except US English, it falls back to the next language after US English
[20:26] <EagleScreen> and if no language after US English, then it fallbacks to locale
[20:26] <EagleScreen> so the mess is in the English language packs
[20:27] <dantti> apachelogger: appget took 15 seconds to start with sqlite 3.6, now with 3.7 it's instantly :P how can it be so much faster :P?
[20:28] <EagleScreen> so, apachelogger, I'd not remobe this widget, I'd try to fix English language packs, but you are the developer
[20:29] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: I think if I install the Debian kde-l10n packages, English and fallback works very well
[20:31] <apachelogger> dantti: sqlite is so dirty there is loads of things to improve I hear ;)
[20:37] <Riddell> lex79: syncs done, qimageblitz done (gosh I messed that one up)
[20:39] <lex79> kk :)
[20:42] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: I may tray to test if Catalan can fallback to Catalan-Valençia
[20:43] <EagleScreen> may be the same language is not able to fallback to the same language but from other region
[21:02] <apparle> !gpg
[21:14] <Lars_G> Greets all.
[21:14] <Lars_G> I'm testing out Maverick, and I'm getting a segmentation fault with plasma-netbook
[21:14] <Lars_G> (on a netbook)
[21:15] <Lars_G> anyone knows who could be the culpright here? http://pastebin.com/Nrj5UxSv
[21:15] <Lars_G> Any help is appreciated
[21:26] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: fallback to en_US fixed
[21:26] <apachelogger> Lars_G: with all updates installed?
[21:28] <lex79> apachelogger: did you see my merge requests? :P
[21:28] <apachelogger> lex79: not yet, we were busy tracking kde bugs :P
[21:29] <lex79> ok
[21:29] <apachelogger> lex79: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot26.png what do you think about that as intermediate work around until I can make the language selection thing of KDE more sensible?
[21:29] <apachelogger> uhh
[21:29] <apachelogger> there is hell in my inbox
[21:29] <apachelogger> comment here comment there comments everywhere
[21:30] <Lars_G> apachelogger: I'm about to push them all
[21:30] <Lars_G> I seem to have only 3, let me see which ones
[21:30] <Lars_G> err 154 packages... nvm
[21:31] <lex79> apachelogger: it seems better than what we have now
[21:32] <smarter_> apachelogger: looks less confusing, except for those few people who like to have KDE fallback on a specific language when the translation is not available on their first language
[21:36] <apachelogger> shtylman: pingy
[21:36] <apachelogger> smarter_: it only works for KDE apps though which is fail IMHO
[21:37] <apachelogger> what needs to be done is make it create an env script or hack up klocale to export the locale vars appropriately
[21:37] <apachelogger> so that every non-KDE app also can use the other default language
[21:37] <apachelogger> also the whole list thing needs to be redone
[21:37] <apachelogger> way too heigh it i
[21:37] <apachelogger> *is
[21:37] <apachelogger> also the up and down buttons are completely 1990's
[21:38] <shtylman> apachelogger: pongy
[21:38] <apachelogger> shtylman: openoffice-kde needs some fixing if you have time
[21:39] <smarter_> apachelogger: I think a Default language/ Fallback language would cover all the (sane) use cases
[21:39] <shtylman> apachelogger: not sure if I will before freeze and release
[21:39] <smarter_> but don't we have a usability expert to enlighten us on that sort of thing? ;)
[21:39] <apachelogger> shtylman: after creating KApplication you need to call setGraphicsSystem("native");
[21:39] <shtylman> apachelogger: this cycle has not awarded me much time unfortunately
[21:39] <shtylman> apachelogger: what will that do?
[21:40] <apachelogger> shtylman: ensure that the X11 painter is used
[21:40] <shtylman> as opposed to?
[21:40] <apachelogger> which seems to be necessary since openoffice goes down if one uses raster
[21:40] <apachelogger> shtylman: whatever the user configured
[21:40] <shtylman> I see
[21:40] <apachelogger> or what Qt was built with
[21:40] <apachelogger> shtylman: apparently you need some X11 functionallity foo
[21:40] <apachelogger> so you need to ensure that painter is used
[21:40] <apachelogger> KWin does that too IIRC
[21:40] <shtylman> yes...cause we get iwndow ids to copy pixmaps and whatnot
[21:41] <apachelogger> yeah, that sounds like a case where one needs the X11 painter ^^
[21:41]  * apachelogger got horribly lost when he tried to find his way in the openoffice code ^^
[21:42] <shtylman> apachelogger:  :)
[21:43] <shtylman> one cannot just find their way through that code... the code finds it's way through you
[21:44] <apachelogger> rofl
[21:44]  * apachelogger needs to kjot that for later
[21:46] <Lars_G> shtylman: if that's true, xorg's core team must be in institutions by now.
[21:47] <Lars_G> I navigated XFree86's source twice... it was scary
[21:47] <apachelogger> mhh
[21:47] <lex79> qtcreator freezes everytime bleh
[21:47] <apachelogger> <3 merging in git
[21:47] <apachelogger> lex79: thanks for the fixes
[21:48] <Lars_G> <3 git
[21:48] <lex79> np
[21:48] <Lars_G> Sigh, with all users connected. my updates will take 1 day
[21:48] <Lars_G> bbl, I'll go for coffe and a gun
[21:49]  * apachelogger thinks gitorious could really autoclose merge requests
[21:49]  * apachelogger is wondering if Lars_G will shoot the coffee
[21:49] <apachelogger> omg
[21:50] <apachelogger> human after all alter ego remix
[21:50] <apachelogger> some fine beats those are
[21:50]  * apachelogger imagines that most illuminating in combination with shrooms
[21:51] <apachelogger> smarter_: do you happen to know a button type where I can control alignment?
[21:51] <apachelogger> qpushbutton defaults to central when an icon is around (thanks to qstyle -.-)
[21:52] <smarter_> nop, I hope you won't have to resort to paint()ing :p
[21:52] <EagleScreen> why havent you change kcm-touchpad by synaptiks?
[21:54] <smarter_> apachelogger: maybe using the CSS property text-align?
[21:54] <smarter_> http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/stylesheet-examples.html
[21:54] <apachelogger> smarter_: that is a bit sick though
[21:55] <apachelogger> also I wonder how one does that with regards to RTL vs LTR
[21:55] <Tm_T> apachelogger: should do as expected IIRC
[21:56] <Tm_T> hmmm, or did it require separateRTL rule, cannot remember
[21:56]  * apachelogger would think that it requires a seperate rule
[21:56] <apachelogger> there surely are occasions where one will not want that stuff to swap around
[21:57] <smarter_> but, are central-aligned buttons that bad?
[21:57] <smarter_> I mean, buttons that launch a new app inside an app are already ugly and evil, left-aligning them won't change that :p
[21:57] <apachelogger> smarter_: take a look at the screny
[21:57] <apachelogger> IMHO i looks odd
[21:58] <apachelogger> s/i/it
[21:58] <apachelogger> I certainly look odd too, but that is another story :P
[21:58] <smarter_> :p
[21:59] <smarter_> I think we should not worry too much about that and rather try to C++ize and KCMize that language selector mess
[22:01] <Lars_G> I wish Jambi would be ported to android
[22:01] <apachelogger> smarter_: JT had a rather good jolly good concept (not sure if it involved full port to C++ but at least a helper for polkit
[22:02] <apachelogger> smarter_: I recommended that to a couple of canonical employees as something that one could give bounty for, without luck :/
[22:03] <apachelogger> smarter_: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GSoC/2010/JonathanThomas
[22:03] <apachelogger> Lars_G: http://code.google.com/p/android-lighthouse/
[22:03] <smarter_> apachelogger: nice, he didn't get accepted?
[22:03] <apparle> what all should I do after generating a gpg key pair, so that debsign will detect it
[22:03] <apachelogger> smarter_: no, because I had a diagram with a cloud in my proposal ;)
[22:04] <apachelogger> you cannot compete with cloud diagrams :S
[22:04] <smarter_> hah, of course :p
[22:04] <apachelogger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GSoC/2010/HaraldSitter
[22:04] <apachelogger> cloud
[22:04] <apachelogger> :D
[22:05] <smarter_> also ubuntu one is more fancy than language selection, who cares about usability anyway? :p
[22:05]  * apachelogger just noticed that the actual design in the end did not look much different
[22:06] <apachelogger> smarter_: well, you can sell crap that does fancy things, if you try selling working stuff that is not fancy you have a problem ;)
[22:12] <apachelogger> smarter_: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot27.png
[22:12] <apachelogger> doesnt that look much better?
[22:13] <smarter_> yep actually :)
[22:13] <smarter_> you switched back to English? :p
[22:15] <apachelogger> no, there is a bug!!!
[22:15] <apachelogger> look
[22:15] <apachelogger> my toolbar is french :P
[22:15] <apachelogger> anyhow
[22:15] <apachelogger> how do I switch to RTL?
[22:16] <smarter_> there's a command line switch
[22:16] <smarter_> a secret one
[22:16]  * apachelogger hate secret switches
[22:17] <smarter_> actually, in --help-qt: --reverse
[22:17] <apachelogger> ah
[22:18] <smarter_> woah, progress bars going to the left in muon, trippy
[22:18] <apachelogger> ah
[22:18] <apachelogger> muah
[22:18] <apachelogger> hii
[22:18] <Lars_G> updates
[22:18]  * apachelogger likes that
[22:18]  * Lars_G weeps
[22:18] <Lars_G> updates
[22:18] <apachelogger> this is crazy
[22:18] <apachelogger> weeh
[22:18] <apachelogger> \o/
[22:18] <apachelogger> RTL rox
[22:18] <smarter_> apachelogger: april 1st material? :p
[22:18] <Lars_G> it says it'll take 6 hours. it seems reliable
[22:18] <apachelogger> smarter_: totally
[22:18]  * apachelogger kjots that 
[22:18] <smarter_> with some CSS goodness
[22:18] <apachelogger> smarter_, Tm_T: it will indeed invert the alignment
[22:19] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot28.png
[22:19] <smarter_> nice
[22:19] <smarter_> so, how did you do it?
[22:19] <apachelogger> Lars_G: that is rather long I might say
[22:19] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: with your new method, a user must be admin to can switch KDE language, and I think this is bad
[22:19] <apachelogger> smarter_: style to text-align: left;
[22:19] <smarter_> simple :)
[22:20] <Lars_G> apachelogger: the connection's not at it'a best
[22:20] <smarter_> Country: Israel?
[22:20] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: then fix the language selection widget
[22:20] <Lars_G> and linux-headers is on the update list
[22:21] <apachelogger> smarter_: I am going all funky on localization now ^^
[22:21] <Tm_T> Lars_G: if networkmanager isn't the one doing the connection, it doesn't show it existing (:
[22:21] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: what is the problem with it? the problem is in your British English packages
[22:21] <Lars_G> Tm_T: ?
[22:21] <EagleScreen> is not it apachelogger?
[22:21] <Tm_T> 0020.12 < Lars_G> apachelogger: the connection's not at it'a best
[22:21] <apachelogger> smarter_: come to think of it, is that selector not also on the left?
[22:22] <Lars_G> Tm_T: What does that have to do with networkmanager?
[22:22] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: not it is not
[22:22] <Lars_G> I mean our backbone is crap right now
[22:22] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: also it is broken by design
[22:22] <EagleScreen> what any other have you found?
[22:22] <apachelogger> Lars_G: I recommend seeing a doctor
[22:22] <Tm_T> Lars_G: aaah, I thought you were referring to screenshot (:
[22:22] <smarter_> apachelogger: what selector?
[22:23] <apachelogger> smarter_: the country selector
[22:23] <Lars_G> apachelogger: I'll have silicon injected in it...
[22:23] <Lars_G> bbl I'll go eat
[22:23] <apachelogger> smarter_: it is misaligned is it not?
[22:23] <apachelogger> it should be next to the country or region label
[22:23] <apachelogger> but instead it sticks on the other end of the window for some reason
[22:23] <smarter_> oh right
[22:24] <apachelogger> BUG ALERT!
[22:24] <smarter_> someone hardcoded something
[22:24] <smarter_> somewhere.
[22:24] <apachelogger> smarter_: that bugger is UI file based
[22:25] <apachelogger> hm
[22:25] <apachelogger> oh
[22:25] <apachelogger> smarter_: it is set to alignement gauche
[22:25] <apachelogger> interesting ^^
[22:25] <apachelogger> which actually is the default for qlabel
[22:26] <smarter_> and it's not reversed by that magic switch?
[22:26] <apachelogger> maybe, but I wonder why qlabel does not invert that automatically
[22:26] <apachelogger> ALSO
[22:26] <apachelogger> that whole brackets thing is off anyway
[22:27] <smarter_> also, you're watching Dragon Ball
[22:27] <apachelogger> the brackety thingy should be left of the country
[22:27] <apachelogger> smarter_: yeah
[22:27] <apachelogger> second tournament is coming up ^^
[22:28] <apachelogger> anyhow
[22:28] <smarter_> why the hell does it look like a link anyway
[22:28] <smarter_> this application is a mess
[22:28] <apachelogger> for a locale widget this thing sure has a lot of RTL issues
[22:28] <apachelogger> smarter_: ack
[22:28] <apachelogger> has not been changed since KDE 2 
[22:29] <smarter_> what does the gnome equivalent look like? a single dropbox?
[22:29] <apachelogger> I do not think they have that at all
[22:29] <apachelogger> oh
[22:29] <apachelogger> actually 
[22:29] <apachelogger> that might have been a single dropbox in KDE 3
[22:29] <apachelogger> I seem to remember something like that
[22:29] <smarter_> I remember that monster from KDE 3.5 at least
[22:30] <apachelogger> hm
[22:30] <smarter_> KDE 3.4 is a vague and distant memory :p
[22:30] <apachelogger> I remember KDE 3.3 as crashy monster :P
[22:30] <apachelogger> that beast was horrible
[22:30] <apachelogger> or maybe it was my suse
[22:30] <apachelogger> cant remember
[22:30] <smarter_> actually, I'm not sure if it was KDE 3.4 that was used in my first distro evar
[22:31]  * smarter_ checks
[22:31] <apachelogger> so
[22:31] <apachelogger> qwidgets have a layoutdirecton property
[22:31] <apachelogger> that can be set to layoutdirectionauto
[22:31] <apachelogger> BUT!!! that does not do no nothing for that silly qlabel
[22:33] <apachelogger> :O
[22:33] <apachelogger> smarter_: the stylesheet trick also doesnt work
[22:33] <apachelogger> qlabels clearly are made out of stupid -.-
[22:33] <smarter_> that sucks
[22:34] <smarter_> (apparently it was 3.4.1, I remember being amazed by a menu with real organization instead of the Windows mess)
[22:35] <apachelogger> ^^
[22:35] <apachelogger> back then things were still awesome
[22:37] <smarter_> back then I was almost 12, and yes I guess, things were pretty awesome.
[22:38] <apachelogger>     if (qApp->layoutDirection() == Qt::RightToLeft) {
[22:38] <apachelogger>         m_selectedCountryLabel->setAlignment(Qt::AlignRight);
[22:38] <apachelogger>     }
[22:39] <apachelogger> good thing Qt is nice
[22:39] <apachelogger> smarter_: with 12 everything is amazing anyway :P
[22:40]  * apachelogger trusts that hebrew translators mad foo (change...) into (change...) foo
[22:40] <apachelogger> s/mad/made
[22:41] <smarter_> or is it (...change) foo? :p
[22:42] <apachelogger> I dunno
[22:42] <apachelogger> smarter_: I wonder if they use ... at all ... ;)
[22:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: I really cant think of a KCM where we could squeeze in host name configuration
[22:46] <smarter_> I remember gnome having a setting for that, one of the few thing configurable
[22:47] <apachelogger> like it is so important ^^
[22:49] <apachelogger> generally I would squeeze that in with DNS settings
[22:49] <apachelogger> but since we do not really have that...
[22:50] <claydoh> smarter_: you missed the days when a kde menu was worse than a windows menu :) a stock kde2x/3x iirc was a monster with multiple submenus for *everything*
[22:50] <apachelogger> suse also has it with dns foo http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot29.png
[22:50] <smarter_> claydoh: I saw the multiple submenu thing and still liked it :p
[22:51] <smarter_> and there was KEdit, and KWrite, and Kate
[22:51] <claydoh> smarter_: still cooler than windows, but I always had to move things around a bit to make it sensible
[22:51] <smarter_> apachelogger: dns can be configured per connection with KNM
[22:51] <claydoh> dunno if that was a mandrake thing then, tho
[22:52] <apachelogger> smarter_: yes, but that does not make sense with hostname :P
[22:52] <smarter_> not at all
[22:52] <smarter_> is yast any good?
[22:52] <claydoh> smarter_: then distros like Lycoris, elx, and eventually Kubuntu made the menus sane
[22:52] <apachelogger> smarter_: It used to be better
[22:52] <claydoh> now all the kool kids are doing that
[22:52] <smarter_> claydoh: isn't kickoff an opensuse thing?
[22:53] <apachelogger> smarter_: seems more stable though ... not sure if that is general maturity or the fact that they are moving towards C++
[22:53] <apachelogger> ...they used their own language for yast back in the days
[22:53] <claydoh> smarter_: sorry was still in the kde3 stage
[22:53] <smarter_> claydoh: kickoff started as a kde3 app
[22:53] <claydoh> but it was out of the same need to clean up a messy men u
[22:54] <apachelogger> smarter_: we could patch in a tab in knm's KCMs somewhere
[22:54] <smarter_> claydoh:  http://home.kde.org/~binner/kickoff/sneak_preview.html
[22:54] <apachelogger> or add another KCM 
[22:54] <claydoh> yup, but other distros stared out by simplifying the menu structures on the stock menu
[22:54] <smarter_> right :)
[22:54] <claydoh> before kickoff existed
[22:54] <apachelogger> but really I do not know what to do with a KCM that basically jus thas a label and a textedit
[22:54] <smarter_> apachelogger: you really like KCM don't you? :p
[22:55] <apachelogger> they are truely awesome :P
[22:55] <smarter_> rename one of the network KCM to something more general, add hostname, profit?
[22:55] <apachelogger> cant
[22:55] <apachelogger> UI freeze and all
[22:55] <smarter_> oh
[22:55] <apachelogger> which would be in favor of an independent KCM
[22:56] <apachelogger> we could have that in universe for maverick
[22:56] <smarter_> but who would download it?
[22:56] <apachelogger> ScottK ;)
[22:57] <smarter_> the "sharing" kcm is one big useless thing
[22:58] <apachelogger> it is not the only one
[22:58] <smarter_> but the most annoying thing with systemsettings at the moment is that in French it puts newline after an apostrophe
[22:59] <smarter_> like: Configuration de l'
[22:59] <smarter_> imprimante
[22:59] <apachelogger> it is truely inspiring to see almost empty tabs with non-generic names
[22:59] <smarter_> didn't do that before 4.5
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> CIA is behind...
[22:59] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot30.png
[22:59] <apachelogger> smarter_: I think that is Qt
[22:59] <apachelogger> has to do with linebreaking
[23:00] <apachelogger> at least I think so ^^
[23:00] <smarter_> well, it sucks
[23:01] <apachelogger> uhhh
[23:01] <apachelogger> pendulum essential mix
[23:01] <apachelogger> oh my
[23:08] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1172710 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/ (DownloadWidget.cpp DownloadWidget.h) Remove DownloadWidget::updateDownloadMessage(), superceeded by updatePackageDownloadProgres()
[23:10] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot31.png
[23:11] <apachelogger> no up down buttons no more
[23:11] <apachelogger> muhahaha
[23:12] <smarter_> you're ripping apart what someone else patiently built, how does it feel? :p
[23:13] <apachelogger> brilliant!
[23:13] <apachelogger> muahahahaha
[23:17] <Lars_G> VE ARE MAVURIKS
[23:17] <Lars_G> or, hi
[23:17] <debfx> apachelogger: why has the graphicssystem kcm a bomb as the icon? ^^
[23:18] <apachelogger> danger :P
[23:18] <apachelogger> it breaks openoffice
[23:18] <apachelogger> also I had no better one
[23:18] <apachelogger> which is really the primary reason ;)
[23:19] <Riddell> Blizzz: are you into German translations at all?
[23:19] <debfx> yeah I noticed that openoffice explodes on start ;)
[23:19] <Blizzz> Riddell: currently i am not involved in it
[23:20] <apachelogger> you know
[23:20] <apachelogger> I think it is time we abduct nuno
[23:20] <apachelogger> or at least make him kubuntu user
[23:20] <apachelogger> now that mandriva is down it might be our chance
[23:20] <Lars_G> nuno... that rings a bell
[23:20] <smarter_> apachelogger: show up at his house with a bat mask
[23:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ^ you get me the icon overlord
[23:21] <Riddell> Blizzz: do you know who is?
[23:21] <apachelogger> smarter_: not me, I will take him and make us both switch to suse :P
[23:22] <apachelogger> what I do not get about that language list
[23:22] <apachelogger> why is it so heigh that you could fit 20 languages in?
[23:22] <apachelogger> and why is it so wide that these 20 languages could have an average name length of say 200 characters
[23:23] <Blizzz> Riddell: kubuntu specific? i'd need to ask to be sure, but mcas, Tscheesy and bulldog98 put effort in it some time ago
[23:23] <apachelogger> markey: pendulum essential mix ... very recommendable if you havent heared that
[23:24]  * apachelogger finds kcmlocale as a whole very strange
[23:24] <apachelogger> why does the ctor have 4 char indent and the rest of the beast 2 char
[23:24] <smarter_> apachelogger: because when it was designed screen resolutions were small?
[23:24] <Sput> 2 char indent <3
[23:24] <apparle> when I use debuild -S to generate a source, it is taking my email as apparle@<hostname> what env variable should I set so that it will take my email address correctly
[23:25] <smarter_> apparle: EMAIL or DEBEMAIL
[23:25] <apachelogger> smarter_: wouldnt you then want to have a smaller list? :P
[23:25] <apparle> smarter_: DEBEMAIL is set correct
[23:25] <Blizzz> Riddell: is it because of your recent mail to devel-ml regarding translations?
[23:25] <apachelogger> Sput: I prefer 4
[23:25] <yofel> apparle: did you export $DEBEMAIL? 
[23:25] <apachelogger> basically because I tend to make the font super small when I look for something ^^
[23:26] <Sput> apachelogger: yeah, nowadays I'd do 4 as well, but meh, not gonna change the whole codebase and spoil the git history
[23:26] <smarter_> apachelogger: you would want something that takes all the screen available space
[23:26] <apparle> yofel: yes
[23:26] <Sput> then again, git diff and friends can ignore whitespace nowadays...
[23:26] <apachelogger> yep
[23:26] <yofel> apparle: odd, wfm
[23:26] <apachelogger> + astyle makes your code pretty
[23:26] <apachelogger> <3 kdebug include without usage
[23:26] <apachelogger> does anyone know if there is a KDE script that checks for unncessary includes?
[23:27] <smarter_> that doesn't seem trivial to do
[23:27] <Riddell> Blizzz: no, it's because we had someone complaining that the slideshow translations in German were full of typos and I think it should be checked
[23:27] <apachelogger> smarter_: why not?
[23:27] <smarter_> because includes can include stuff
[23:27] <apachelogger> yeah, so?
[23:27] <Riddell> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[23:28] <smarter_> apachelogger: so you'd need to examine a lot of files before concluding if the include is necessary or not
[23:28] <apachelogger> smarter_: you only need to build a list of include files and each of those associated with a list of structs, classes, enums and global functions in that file
[23:29] <apparle> yofel: I think lintian related messages are taking the address incorrectly. Any ideas?
[23:29] <apachelogger> smarter_: I rather have one expensive operation once a month than pointless expense all the time
[23:29] <yofel> apparle: wait, what do you have in debian/changelog?
[23:29] <smarter_> well, do it then :p
[23:29] <smarter_> I think kdevplatform might help
[23:30] <apachelogger> that is over the top
[23:30] <apachelogger> last I checked their interfaces where mindwarping
[23:30] <smarter_> c++ is over the top :p
[23:30] <apachelogger> smarter_: well you do not need to have a full featured c++ parser
[23:30] <Lars_G> I like forth so much more than c++
[23:31] <apparle> yofel: :) fixed
[23:31] <yofel> :)
[23:31] <apachelogger> smarter_: in fact you just need to try to grasp signature matches for functions
[23:31] <apachelogger> oh and enum values 
[23:32] <smarter_> and templates!
[23:32] <Sput> smarter_: Doxygen can build a full include graph for a project. removing superfluos edges from that should be trivial
[23:32] <apachelogger> smarter_: those can be ignored
[23:32] <smarter_> Sput: how, didn't think of that
[23:32] <smarter_> but I bet the doxygen code is non-trivial :p
[23:32] <smarter_> s/how/oh/
[23:33] <apachelogger> Sput: finding the superfluos stuff is the problem I expect
[23:33] <apparle> how to edit dependencies of package. I want to add X11 libraries to it?
[23:33] <Sput> smarter_: well, it's just going recursively down... parsing for #include isn't a problem, so you can easily build the full graph
[23:33] <apachelogger> Sput: connecting the includes to actual use is the nifty part
[23:33] <apachelogger> and the most useful one
[23:34] <Sput> apachelogger: ah, I was just thinking superfluous #include (including files that are already included)
[23:34] <apachelogger> that would also be nice 
[23:34] <yofel> apparle: build dependencies?
[23:34] <Sput> the other thing should be easily integratable into IDEs like Creator or KDevelop
[23:34] <Sput> those have a full code model
[23:34] <Sput> and know where everything is defined
[23:34] <apachelogger> oh, good point
[23:34] <apparle> yofel: sorry ... only dependencies
[23:34] <apparle> yofel: on a second thought build dependencies as well
[23:35] <Sput> I mean, KDev4 can tell me the file something comes from, extending that to check if there's files nothing comes from shouldn't be hard
[23:35] <Sput> also, KDev4 can already auto-add #includes...
[23:35] <yofel> apparle: edit debian/control and add your package to the source package Build-Depends: or the binary package Depends:
[23:36] <Blizzz> Riddell: on first sight, i see some typos in the packaged string, most of them have already corrections in launchpad. but we can take a closer look.
[23:36] <Lars_G> apachelogger: down to 30 minutes, not that you care
[23:36] <smarter_> that's why I suggested kdevplatform
[23:36] <smarter_> anyway, 'night everyone!
[23:36] <apachelogger> Sput: well, I imagine the thing is inside out
[23:36] <apachelogger> I would not bet on the simplicity 
[23:37] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think it's have a kcm for hostname or have lots of complaints.
[23:37]  * ScottK waves.
[23:37] <apachelogger> Lars_G: yeah, I will be down too in 30 minutes :P
[23:37] <Lars_G> apachelogger: down on whom?
[23:37] <apachelogger> stairs
[23:37] <Lars_G> damn. it's gonna hurt. isn't it?
[23:38] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[23:38] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, it is editing one file...
[23:38] <apachelogger> and the KCM would not do anything different
[23:38] <ScottK> apachelogger: No, it's more than one.
[23:38] <apachelogger> show a line where you can things
[23:38] <apachelogger> is it?
[23:38] <apachelogger> what else is there?
[23:39] <apachelogger> royksopp <3
[23:39] <ScottK> apachelogger: At least /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname
[23:39] <smarter_> careful with hostname change, if done wrong you'll kill sudo
[23:40] <apachelogger> ScottK: so two files..
[23:40] <apachelogger> of which one will reqiure a parser class to prevent breakage
[23:40] <ScottK> apachelogger: sudo + two files in /etc == too hard for a lot of our user base.
[23:40] <ScottK> apachelogger: I wouldn't have bothered asking you if it were trivially simple.
[23:41] <apachelogger> ScottK: then they should not want ot change their hostname
[23:41] <apachelogger> why was it removed from the installer anyway?
[23:41] <ScottK> apachelogger: Part of the redesign.
[23:41]  * ScottK looks for the bug.
[23:41] <apachelogger> silly craps
[23:41] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1172714 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (muon/MainWindow.cpp updater/UpdaterWindow.cpp) - Don't connect to the old updateDownloadMessage signal in Muon's MainWindow class - Switch from updateDownloadMessage to packageDownloadProgress in UpdaterWindow
[23:41] <smarter_> wait, you can't choose your hostname in the installer?
[23:41] <apachelogger> smarter_: sometimes I think it might be better if sudo was not working for a majority of people :P
[23:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: Bug 628087
[23:42] <smarter_> I only installed maverick last week and I could
[23:42] <ScottK> smarter_: You probably had the pre-beta installer.  That or Riddell left it in by "accident" and it's OK.
[23:43] <ScottK> If it's still there it's technically a bug that one might expect to be fixed anytime.
[23:43] <smarter_> why the hell would we remove that?
[23:43] <yofel> smarter_: was decided at UDS..
[23:43] <smarter_> what happens on a personal network with multiple computers?
[23:44] <yofel> smarter_: you install it and first thing you do is change hostname I guess, or use the alternate installer, I don't think it was removed there
[23:45] <apachelogger> smarter_: you install opensuse
[23:45] <yofel> or that
[23:46] <smarter_> MS wants to make it a "live-CD boot parameter"
[23:46] <apachelogger> ScottK: we could probably deploy a hosts file editor in the same KCM ... desired?
[23:46] <Riddell> ScottK: I didn't change the user setup page in our installer, no plans to do so for maverick
[23:46] <smarter_> great
[23:46] <ScottK> Riddell: Oh.  Excellent then.
[23:47] <yofel> :D
[23:47] <ScottK> apachelogger: Nevermind.  Riddell has saved the day.
[23:47] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, the issue of no gui for hostname changes remains :P
[23:47]  * apachelogger sends cookies to JR 
[23:48]  * apachelogger looks at the clock and goes omg I should have been in bed 3 hours ago
[23:48] <smarter_> me too :p
[23:48] <smarter_> 'night for real
[23:48] <ScottK> apachelogger: True, but it's less critical if one can set it during install.
[23:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, it is a 1 hour hack including a hosts file parser or so ... I just need to know where to put it and what it should look like ;)
[23:50] <apachelogger> so what do you think about adding a hosts file editor in the KCM
[23:50] <apparle> Riddell: I have made the debdiff for SRU of rekonq in lucid. What next
[23:50] <smarter_> but we won't have it translated?
[23:50] <apachelogger> Hostname: [                                    ]
[23:50] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think it'd be good to have it.  Idiodic hostname choices are the #1 source of postfix bugs, so it could stand being easier to set.
[23:50] <apachelogger> then a layoutbox titled "Hosts"
[23:50] <apachelogger> with listview
[23:51] <apachelogger> where you can mess with the hosts file
[23:51] <ScottK> Check to make sure it's valid.
[23:51] <apachelogger> limited editing capabilities so it stays valid
[23:51] <apachelogger> need to look into what valid means for hosts file though ^^
[23:51] <apachelogger> anyhow
[23:51] <apachelogger> -> bed
[23:51] <Riddell> dantti: I needed this patch to stop kpackagekit modules appearing in Lost and Found
[23:51] <Riddell> apparle: ooh great
[23:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: I fixed that upstream
[23:52] <Riddell> apparle: is there a bug for the issue?  if not file one and attach the debdiff
[23:52] <apachelogger> along with a change in systemsettings 4.5.1 
[23:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: oh?
[23:52] <dantti> Riddell: yup kpk in lucid needs a new package
[23:52] <dantti> with apachelogger's changes
[23:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: you are talking about categories?
[23:53] <apachelogger> if so I changed this in KDE SVN to work on both <4.5 and >=4.5
[23:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes
[23:53] <Riddell> dantti: I'm not in lucid, I'm in maverick with 4.5.1
[23:53] <apparle> Riddell: onething though, the fix adds X11_LIBRARIES to CMakeLists.txt Should I add them to rekonq dependencies, I didn't get any problems in pbuilder.
[23:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: kde rev 1166778
[23:54] <Riddell> apparle: if pbuilder is fine then that's ok
[23:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: well I'm not convinced that fixed it, I think it broke it
[23:55] <dantti> Riddell: let me start the vbox...
[23:56] <dantti> Riddell: at least here in lucid (with my development kpk) it's working
[23:56] <dantti> Riddell: new ui btw :P http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-plasma-desktopee37570
[23:56]  * dantti needs to stop changing uis
[23:57] <Riddell> ooh, nice simple tickboxes
[23:57] <dantti> yeah, sheytan and pinheiro gave me a hand
[23:57] <ScottK> dantti: Particularly since we are past U/I freeze.
[23:58] <dantti> ScottK: the problem is that the old ui didn't support well screen shots for the app installer
[23:58] <ScottK> OK.  Just make sure the docs people know.
[23:59] <dantti> Riddell: my updated vbox maverick has it fine in system settings