[17:18] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: have you tried the new ubuntu font?
[17:18] <AlanBell> would be interested in your opinion of using the new font with the large print high contrast theme
[17:19] <charlie-tca> yes, I have been using it. I haven't tried with high contrast themes, but I have it as default for everything, including firefox
[17:19] <charlie-tca> I thought that was what your devel wiki used?
[17:19] <charlie-tca> or am I forcing my fonts somehow?
[17:20] <charlie-tca> I do like it. It is quite easy on the eyes
[17:28] <AlanBell> ok, good, thanks
[17:28] <AlanBell> looking at the impact of making it the desktop default, which it might be
[17:29] <AlanBell> bug 629622
[17:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 629622 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "MIR+FFE: Inclusion of Ubuntu Font Family ~0.7 in Maverick (10.10) (affects: 6) (heat: 50)" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/629622
[17:33] <vish> AlanBell: hi, did you have time to test the 9pt font bug i mentioned? :)
[17:33] <AlanBell> vish: I had a quick look but couldn't see anything special happening, but that wasn't on Maverick at the time
[17:34] <vish> AlanBell: hmm weird, i'm not on maverick either.. thanks though ..
[17:35] <AlanBell> there are some hinting bugs
[18:23] <Pendulum> the Disability Studies Conference at Lancaster Uni is streaming their plenaries this week at http://www.lancs.ac.uk/iss/digital/disability/
[21:08] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: ping
[21:14] <pendulum|phone> Anyone around?
[21:15] <pendulum|phone> Sorry, my net just went down
[21:15] <AlanBell> hi pendulum|phone 
[21:15] <pendulum|phone> AlanBell: Is it just you and me?
[21:16] <AlanBell> um, by the looks of things
[21:16] <pendulum|phone> If so would you be okay with delaying some as the phone is also down so i need to use my mobile to ring the cable company
[21:17] <AlanBell> yes, lets do that
[21:33] <Pendulum> well, I may be around now
[21:33] <AlanBell> oh good
[21:33] <Pendulum> well, theoretically
[21:33] <Pendulum> the net seems to be working
[21:34] <Pendulum> but the phone still isn't working
[21:34] <Pendulum> which isn't a great sign
[21:34] <Pendulum> and I think the net is being quite laggy
[21:34] <AlanBell> ok, well lets see how it goes
[21:34] <charlie-tca> I made it back now
[21:34] <AlanBell> o/ charlie-tca 
[21:35] <Pendulum> hiya charlie-tca 
[21:35] <charlie-tca> Hi
[21:36] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I was actually poking you about something completely separate since I think you said you don't have time for personas, right?
[21:37] <charlie-tca> Oh, yeah
[21:37] <charlie-tca> but I was outside with the lawn mower for a few minutes
[21:38] <AlanBell> Pendulum: perhaps we should round up some more bodies to join in with the personas
[21:38] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: can I PM you for a sec?
[21:38] <Pendulum> AlanBell: any suggestions for whom?
[21:39] <charlie-tca> sure, Pendulum 
[21:39] <AlanBell> I can ask in -uk for a start
[21:39] <AlanBell> just needs people with a bit of imagination and a good grasp of english
[21:45] <MichealH> Hey all
[21:45] <AlanBell> o/
[21:46] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility while you are waiting
[21:46] <Pendulum> hi sick_fox 
[21:47] <sick_fox> hi Pendulum 
[21:47] <dutchie> o/
[21:47] <sick_fox> dont you know how can I get into ubuntu channel?
[21:47] <Pendulum> heya dutchie 
[21:47] <dutchie> hi Pendulum 
[21:47] <Pendulum> sick_fox: /join #ubuntu
[21:48] <sick_fox> Pendulum, impossible I tried it even with windowed client and it is impossible to join for me
[21:49] <sick_fox> Pendulum, what could be wrong?
[21:49] <MichealH> AlanBell: While im waiting?
[21:49] <charlie-tca> sick_fox: check in #ubuntu-ops
[21:49] <Pendulum> sick_fox: I dunno, but this isn't a channel for support, you might want to try #ubuntu-beginners-help
[21:49] <AlanBell> MichealH: just giving you some light reading
[21:50] <Pendulum> anyway, for those of you here about the "writing project" AlanBell was advertising ;-)
[21:50] <Pendulum> the Accessibility Team has been gathering information to create accessibility personas
[21:50] <sick_fox> thanks for help
[21:51] <Pendulum> AlanBell: do you have the really good link with examples of personas handy?
[21:51] <AlanBell> Pendulum: the IBM one?
[21:51] <MichealH> Sorry? Presonas?
[21:51] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I think so?
[21:51] <MichealH> (13 y/o her)
[21:51] <Pendulum> Personas are generally design techniques
[21:51] <AlanBell> http://www-01.ibm.com/software/ucd/gallery/software.html
[21:51] <dutchie> MichealH: made-up users to exemplify target users
[21:51] <dutchie> or something
[21:52] <Pendulum> dutchie: that's pretty much it
[21:52] <Pendulum> the idea behind it is that people design for people, not concepts
[21:52] <MichealH> made-up users?
[21:52] <MichealH> huh?
[21:52] <AlanBell> ok, so a persona is a character that you have in your head while designing something
[21:52] <MichealH> Like a image of the final thing?
[21:52] <AlanBell> so you are not just building it for yourself, but making sure it works for all your target users
[21:52] <MichealH> Okay :)
[21:52] <Pendulum> so you're designing to people
[21:52]  * dutchie tries to find where the UMP personas went
[21:53] <Pendulum> rather than to more nebulous concepts
[21:53] <Pendulum> so with accessibility this means creating personas of people who have accessibility needs
[21:53] <AlanBell> canonical use personas too for designing Ubuntu
[21:54] <AlanBell> we want to expand that set of personas to add some new characters with particular needs
[21:54] <AlanBell> so one might be blind and use a screenreader for example
[21:54] <MichealH> Yeah
[21:54] <MichealH> o where would writing come into this?
[21:54] <MichealH> *So
[21:54] <AlanBell> now we could just have "person A uses orca a screenreader"
[21:54] <AlanBell> which is dull and uninspiring
[21:55] <MichealH> But thats not detailed enough?
[21:55] <MichealH> AlanBell: Yup
[21:55] <AlanBell> so the persona documents flesh this out into a real likeable person
[21:55] <Pendulum> with their goals and life
[21:55]  * dutchie will post a link to the UMP personas as soon as ubuntu one finishes uploading
[21:56] <MichealH> So It would be like "name want to do action but, he/she has a disability..." type thing
[21:56] <MichealH> And sort turn it into a story?
[21:57] <AlanBell> kind of, yes
[21:57] <dutchie> ah, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/pdfEBhpByuVz4.pdf
[21:58] <MichealH> AlanBell: Where do I sign up?
[21:58] <AlanBell> dutchie: yeah, that would be the canonical personas we told Ben not to post to the list
[21:58] <dutchie> AlanBell: oh dear, he never mentioned that
[21:59] <Pendulum> dutchie: that's because he conveniently forgot that we said "don't post publicly"
[21:59] <AlanBell> so yeah go look at the link dutchie posted, that is the canonical set of personas, it isn't a "released" document but we were given it for the benefit this project
[21:59] <MichealH> Can I get started?
[21:59] <AlanBell> MichealH: nope!
[21:59] <MichealH> AlanBell: Why??? :(
[21:59] <AlanBell> because you don't know what you are doing yet
[22:00] <MichealH> I know we are making personas
[22:00] <dutchie> we don't know what personas yet :)
[22:00] <AlanBell> ok, so that document is the kind of thing we want to come up with at the end of the process
[22:00] <MichealH> Okie
[22:00] <AlanBell> just to give you an idea of the overall quality standard we are aiming for and the amount of background about their lives
[22:01] <MichealH> Like "name witched to Ubuntu from Windows num year ago"
[22:01] <MichealH> *witched
[22:01] <MichealH> *swithched
[22:01] <MichealH> I hate my spelling
[22:01] <MichealH> Well, keyboard
[22:02]  * charlie-tca keyboard can't spell either
[22:02] <AlanBell> now we want our personas to be realistic, so we conducted a survey, I will link to the questions we asked in a sec
[22:02] <Pendulum> MichealH: more like "so and so teaches 5th grade and likes to play softball"
[22:02] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas/Survey
[22:02] <MichealH> I really need to go soon
[22:03] <dutchie> hi Thingymebob 
[22:03] <AlanBell> MichealH: ok, thats fine, you can catch up over the next few days, this is a long term project
[22:03] <MichealH> AlanBell: Is that it? Because I really need to go
[22:03] <Thingymebob> \o dutchie
[22:03] <MichealH> Okay
[22:03] <MichealH> \o
[22:04] <AlanBell> we got 25 or so detailed responses to the questions which we have put in a spreadsheet somewhere
[22:04] <AlanBell> in fact, yes we are not going to post that on the internet anywhere, but if you want it email me and I will send it to you
[22:04] <AlanBell> alanbell at ubuntu.com
[22:05] <AlanBell> it has names and emails removed but the answers might be a bit recognisable
[22:05] <Pendulum> well, if you know the people
[22:05] <dutchie> how many were you looking to do?
[22:05] <Pendulum> which most people here don't
[22:05] <Pendulum> we're looking to do about 5
[22:06] <AlanBell> each one with a different principal impairment, but some may have multiple issues
[22:06] <Pendulum> we were thinking to break down: blind, partially sighted, motor disability, learning disability... and something else that I'm missing
[22:06] <AlanBell> we want a mixture of ages and genders
[22:06] <AlanBell> deaf
[22:07] <AlanBell> motor disability might mean a wheelchair user, but actually in terms of computer use we are talking about manual dexterity, using mouse, keyboard and other pointing devices
[22:09] <AlanBell> so I think we need to start with making up their names and real basic information, then start to flesh out each one in turn
[22:09] <dutchie> yeah
[22:09] <AlanBell> or each pick a different one to do
[22:10] <dutchie> we'd still need names and basic info first to get a good mix, i should imagine
[22:10] <Pendulum> yes
[22:10] <AlanBell> ok, so who is here and interested in working on this?
[22:10] <dutchie> o/
[22:10] <AlanBell> o/
[22:10] <Pendulum> o/
[22:10] <AlanBell> michealH was
[22:11] <Pendulum> so that's 4 people
[22:11] <AlanBell> think we caught everyone on a quiet night
[22:11] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:12] <AlanBell> feel free to drag other people in on this dutchie 
[22:12] <Pendulum> I'm also going to poke MichelleQ when I see her next because I think she was also interested
[22:13]  * dutchie tries to round up some ump-ers
[22:13] <AlanBell> that would be ideal
[22:13] <AlanBell> lets have a go at writing the high level info
[22:13] <dutchie> how about using an etherpad or something?
[22:14] <AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/WkO4TZbvWt
[22:17] <AlanBell> one other thing, we want to make them somewhat successful and awesome people, not a recluse with no friends!
[22:17] <dutchie> :)
[22:20] <Pendulum> but it is realistic to have all sorts of ages
[22:21] <Thingymebob> Do you need to consider if these are from birth impairments, where the person will have greater skill in dealing with it, or accident / health induced impairments
[22:21] <AlanBell> Thingymebob: that would certainly go in the description
[22:21] <Pendulum> but it's not necessarily going to impact actual computer usage that much
[22:22] <Pendulum> (for example, I use a computer similarly to some of the people with CP I know, even though my mobility stuff showed up when i was 15ish rather than from birth)
[22:22] <AlanBell> Pendulum: what sort of ages were you thinking?
[22:23] <Pendulum> i'm trying to think
[22:23] <AlanBell> 30 +-10 seems to cover a lot of people in #ubuntu-uk and who were at UDS
[22:24] <Pendulum> i'd like to have one teen in there. would anyone mind if I moved Henrietta to 18 from 24?
[22:24] <AlanBell> go ahead
[22:24] <Pendulum> otherwise any other ages in the middle work for the last 2 :)
[22:25] <dutchie> shall we scatter them around the globe? we've managed to pick english names for most of them, but they could be changed
[22:25] <Pendulum> makes sense to me
[22:26] <AlanBell> I think a bit more scattering perhaps, I put one in India
[22:30] <AlanBell> no Henrietta!
[22:31] <dutchie> sorry
[22:32] <Pendulum> We can rename Sally.
[22:32] <AlanBell> if I get another chicken I will call it Daniela
[22:32] <dutchie> :)
[22:33] <dutchie> did the other alan manage to keep them all in one piece?
[22:33] <AlanBell> he did
[22:33] <dutchie> \o/
[22:34] <AlanBell> lol
[22:34] <dutchie> that just leaves Faisal
[22:35] <AlanBell> not a call centre!
[22:36] <dutchie> we could just make him a junior software engineer
[22:37] <AlanBell> yup, that works too
[22:37] <dutchie> ah, didn't see teacher
[22:37] <dutchie> looks good to me
[22:38]  * dutchie subscribes to the list
[22:38] <AlanBell> lesson plans to type up and so on
[22:39] <AlanBell> I am pretty pleased with how that worked out so far
[22:40] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:41] <AlanBell> ok, I think we have done enough for now (but feel free to carry on tweaking)
[22:41] <AlanBell> Pendulum: what do you think we should do next, schedule another session?
[22:41] <Pendulum>  Sorry, I'm on dasher so am slow. 
[22:42] <AlanBell> yeah, thought you might be :-(
[22:42] <Pendulum> AlanBell: either that or divvy up and each take on
[22:43] <Pendulum> 1
[22:43] <AlanBell> I think working on it together works rather well, we could do a pad for each one and thrash it out, then transfer the results to the wiki or a nicely formatted document later
[22:44] <AlanBell> nice idea dutchie!
[22:45] <dutchie> only if they're not all taken :)
[22:46] <dutchie> wahey
[22:48] <dutchie> right
[22:49] <AlanBell> just wondering when to have another session at it
[22:51] <AlanBell> so I think the thing to do next is to each tell a friend about the project, and show them the etherpad so far
[22:52] <AlanBell> we can schedule another hack hour on the documents in a day or two, via an email to the accessibilty list
[22:57] <AlanBell> thanks all o/
[23:05] <Pendulum> sounds good to me :)