[04:55] <MarkDude> How long can a quieting last? Whats normal?  And is it fair for it to be open ended
[04:56] <MarkDude> There are at least a few people that witnessed my quieting and think that possible days appears to much
[04:56] <MarkDude> There has been nothing *specific* as to why a q was used
[04:57] <persia> MarkDude, The various sorts of operator actions have timeframes measured in minutes through months.
[04:58] <persia> Generally, the best option is to discuss the quiet with the operator who quieted you.  This is a good forum in which to do it.
[04:58] <MarkDude> With usually a warning being issued
[04:58]  * MarkDude remembers that, I am an OP in quite a few channels :)
[04:59] <MarkDude> Sure, we have plenty of CoC violations to share all around in the California Team
[05:00] <MarkDude> We have had jono try to help here, along with paultag akgraner and a few others
[05:00] <MarkDude> This dates back at least two years, non-transparent deals continually happen behind closed doors here
[05:01] <MarkDude> Processes are said to be outlined and then are not.
[05:01] <MarkDude> People have left the group over this
[05:03] <persia> Well, I can't ever be in favour of CoC violations, but I tend to have a somewhat contrary interpretation of the CoC.
[05:04] <persia> That said, I still think the best way to handle it is to raise it here, with specifics, like the channel in which you are quieted and the operator who quieted you (preferably in their presence).
[05:04] <MarkDude> For one - I have publically asked the the lead contact of Cali to stop PMing me
[05:04] <MarkDude> since last year
[05:04] <MarkDude> He is not stopping
[05:04] <persia> It is my firm belief that the CoC requires us to raise issues rapidly, publically, and respectfully.
[05:04] <MarkDude> Doing it right now
[05:05]  * MarkDude aggres
[05:05] <MarkDude> agrees
[05:05] <Flannel> MarkDude: I sent you a query to attempt to resolve your quiet sooner than other people would've been able to handle it, not to have a social conversation with you.
[05:05] <MarkDude> Nathan said the team has a Benevolent Dictator.
[05:05] <Flannel> MarkDude: And I will once again ask that you refrain from making baseless accusations.
[05:05] <MarkDude> I asked you last year to not PM mer
[05:06] <MarkDude> would anyone like to see my log
[05:06] <MarkDude> \I have ASKED you NOT to PM me
[05:06] <MarkDude> I dont trust you
[05:06] <MarkDude> you say one thing in private
[05:06] <MarkDude> then say it did not happen
[05:06] <Flannel> MarkDude: Yes, you did.  However this was a little bit different, considering at the time you were quieted in the channel we usually speak in.
[05:07] <MarkDude> wihout warning
[05:07] <MarkDude> California team organization, management structure, processes
[05:07] <MarkDude> Roadmap
[05:07] <MarkDude> Jono wrote a blog entry on roadmaps
[05:07] <MarkDude> Neal says one is "in the works" since Mark suggested it a few weeks ago
[05:07] <MarkDude> Subgroups
[05:07] <MarkDude> that is from last December
[05:08] <MarkDude> where is that outline of problem solving Flannel ?
[05:08] <MarkDude> The meeting paultag came to
[05:08] <MarkDude> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/09December13
[05:09] <MarkDude> You said you would outline a solving process *last year*
[05:09] <IdleOne> MarkDude: This is not the place to discuss LoCo roadmaps
[05:09] <MarkDude> you are the lead contact, Natahn called you a dictator, in the log
[05:09] <MarkDude> IdleOne,  - not roadmaps, that Cali has needed a process to solve differences
[05:10] <MarkDude> for years
[05:10] <persia> Um, these issues are ones I think may be better raised in a forum watched by members of the LoCo council.  This may be such a place, but only coincidentally.
[05:10] <Flannel> MarkDude: This channel is for discussion of bans/quiets/etc, this is not an appropriate venue for your soapboxing.  Considering you're still wound up, I'm going to recommend you talk to rww tomorrow about it when he gets back, since I don't think you and I are going to have a productive conversation about it tonight.
[05:10] <IdleOne> MarkDude: I understand that but I think a better place/time would be at a us-ca meeting not in here
[05:10] <persia> Flannel, Are you the op who quieted MarkDude?
[05:10] <Flannel> persia: I am not.
[05:10] <persia> Ah, then we are off-issue.  Excellent, saves worry.
[05:10] <MarkDude> You told rww to quiet me
[05:11] <Flannel> persia: I spoke with him earlier today  (in a query) because I was hoping we could resolve it sooner rather than later.
[05:11] <Flannel> MarkDude: I did nothing of the sort
[05:11] <MarkDude> rww & Flannel  have been talking behind the scenes since jono became involved
[05:11] <Flannel> persia: Or rather, I pinged him.  He was away at the time.
[05:11] <persia> rww, If you're about, would you suggest to MarkDude why he was quieted, and what he can do to resolve it?
[05:12] <persia> MarkDude, You are not behind the scenes now.  Please concentrate on the issue at hand.
[05:12] <Flannel> persia: He's detached, for the night I believe.
[05:12] <persia> That makes it awkward :(
[05:13] <MarkDude> Well no specifics onmy q. no op to do it. You are slick Flannel
[05:13] <MarkDude> soryy irc group
[05:13] <Flannel> MarkDude: What?
[05:14] <MarkDude> let me know when This can be fixed
[05:14] <IdleOne> err
[05:14] <Flannel> MarkDude: I don't understand your last statement, can you please clarify?
[05:14] <persia> I'm not confident regarding the policy, so I'd appreciate other's input: if the op is not available, does MarkDude have recourse to something else short term?
[05:14] <persia> Oh, perhaps that's not an important question.
[05:14] <Flannel> persia: His recourse would be to discuss it with other operators of the channel (like myself), but given his above outbursts, I don't think that conversation would turn out well at the moment.
[05:15] <IdleOne> persia: yes he can always follow the appeals process with the IRCC if he feels an op has quieted/banned without a good reason
[05:15] <IdleOne> but like Flannel said talking to other channel ops would be a first step
[05:15] <persia> Well, thanks for reminding me of process :)  Maybe if he returns.
[05:15] <Flannel> IdleOne: I don't think that process applies.
[05:16] <IdleOne> Flannel: hmm you may be right, this is a loco channel issue
[05:16] <Flannel> IdleOne: Yeah, that policy is just for -ops folks
[05:16] <IdleOne> is there a loco channel council of sorts?
[05:16] <Flannel> IdleOne: Not for IRC issues, no.
[05:17] <IdleOne> well markdude is upset about a couple of issues. maybe he should take it to a loco meeting?
[05:17] <Flannel> There's a general -locoteams channel (and a locoteams council), but locoteam issues aren't under their purview, I think you'd follow normal conflict resolution things, and then if that didn't work (there's more than one, etc), you'd go to the CC
[05:18] <Flannel> IdleOne: following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoResolvingProblems
[05:19] <IdleOne> thanks for the link, I'll look it over.
[05:19] <IdleOne> well that says to contact jono
[05:19] <IdleOne> from what I saw here I think that would be the next step for markdude
[05:20] <Flannel> IdleOne: No, the first step would be to talk to the operators
[05:20] <IdleOne> Flannel: you tried that, it failed for whatever reason.
[05:20] <Flannel> IdleOne: Er, what?
[05:20] <IdleOne> not trying to place blame
[05:21] <IdleOne> just saying mark made it clear he does not want to discuss it with you
[05:21] <IdleOne> least that is how it appeared to me
[05:21] <Flannel> I don't think that's the case, and there's still other operators he can go to (like the one who quieted him in the first place)
[05:22] <nhaines> Actually, Mark hasn't spoken with any of the channel ops since his quieting.
[05:22] <persia> I'd agree with that assessment.  For perhaps unrelated reasons, Flannel makes a poor choice as the "other channel operator" in this very specific case.
[05:23] <persia> But I don't think the next step ought be "contact jono": that breaks because he's only one person: we have councils for reasons.
[05:23] <Flannel> persia: there's a third as well, and under normal circumstances, I would have no problem (and earlier today was hoping to) resolve the issue.  But with Mark's behavior here, I'm going to bow out due to potential percieved conflict of interest
[05:24] <persia> Flannel, Probably safer: I don't mean any criticism of you as an operator, but it seems there is some unrelated conflict in this case, unfortunately.
[11:00] <bazhang> nettolo, contact the op who banned you
[11:01] <nettolo> now is not here
[11:01] <nettolo> is glpiana
[11:01] <bazhang> then /msg him when he is back
[11:02] <newbie420> Could one of you idiots tell me a command for blocking people on here. I am being harassed by nettolo. Thanks.
[11:02] <rww> !ignore | newbie420
[11:03] <newbie420> Thanks.
[11:03] <Tm_T> ikonia: what needs to be done?
[11:03] <ikonia> Tm_T: removal or newbie420
[11:03]  * vish wonders when rww became an idiot too ;)
[11:03] <newbie420> What the fuck.
[11:03] <newbie420> CUnts!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:03] <Tm_T> newbie420: please behave
[11:04] <vish> !language | newbie420:
[11:04] <rww> Chanserv lags :(
[11:04] <Tm_T> it's better to have them going away themselves, less likely to return
[11:04] <rww> indeed
[11:05] <Tm_T> i.e. not getting aggravated by them
[11:05] <Tm_T> if that's the right word (:)
[11:05] <Tm_T> "provoked" perhaps
[11:20]  * Mamarok puts that person on watch, might show up in #ubuntu-ch *sigh*
[11:41] <nettolo> we
[12:31] <nettolo> hi all i need a help
[12:32] <nettolo> i'm banned from ubuntu-it but a op glpiana don't open me the room
[12:32] <erUSUL> nettolo: with?
[12:33] <erUSUL> nettolo: did you discussed this with him? why were you banned etc ...?
[12:33] <nettolo> an misundestanding
[12:33] <nettolo> undestand
[12:34] <nettolo> and glpiana close to me oll possibilities to redime
[12:36] <nettolo> help me
[12:37] <nettolo> call glpiana op
[12:40] <nettolo> !invite glpiana
[12:40] <k1l> nettolo: did u try to speak to the op and solve the misunderstanding?
[12:40] <nettolo> yes
[12:42] <nettolo> i hope it want
[12:44] <nettolo> you can contact
[12:45] <nettolo> it?
[12:53] <nettolo> :s
[12:54] <vish> nettolo: pls be patient , once the concerned op are around your problem will be addressed.
[12:54] <nettolo> thx
[12:57] <nettolo> i see i can't enter in channel on efnet server
[12:58] <nettolo> whit this bann
[12:58] <rww> nettolo: channels on EFNet have nothing whatsoever to do with us. They're entirely unofficial.
[13:00] <nettolo> i undestand but i go in server and i have to need enter in #windowsxp chan for infos sata drver
[13:00] <nettolo> but i can't
[13:03] <nettolo> rww you are a op?
[13:03] <rww> nettolo: where?
[13:04] <nettolo> you are a op in this channel
[13:04] <rww> everyone with an Ubuntu Member cloak is an op in this channel
[13:04] <nettolo> woo
[13:05] <nettolo> can you go in ubuntu-it and say to glpiana to come here?
[13:05] <nettolo> i spoke whit it
[13:05] <rww> no, I don't speak Italian
[13:05] <nettolo> no speack egnlis to whit glpiana
[13:06] <rww> plus, I'm about to go to sleep. Just noticed it's 5am :\
[13:06] <nettolo> glpiana undestand english
[13:06] <nettolo> :S
[13:06] <nettolo> where are you from
[13:06] <nettolo> ?
[13:07] <bazhang> nettolo, /msg glpiana hello
[13:07] <bazhang> nettolo, contact him yourself.
[13:08] <nettolo> u use /msg but it don't read me
[13:08] <bazhang> nettolo, you need to contact him.
[13:08] <nettolo> bazhang for you is simple ans easy
[13:08] <bazhang> nettolo, next time dont get banned.
[13:09] <nettolo> thanks for help but not is good idea for me
[13:09] <nettolo> i have used /msg
[13:09] <nettolo> but glpiana don't read me
[13:09] <bazhang> nettolo, then be patient. nothing happens right away.
[13:10] <nettolo> this chat is for support in ubuntu os?
[13:11] <bazhang> this is for helping people who are needing help with international channels, such as #ubuntu-it
[13:11] <nettolo> ok
[13:11] <bazhang> yw
[13:11] <nettolo> national is -it or -jp or -china
[13:12] <bazhang> international
[13:12] <nettolo> no i say only for nation for example italy is -it
[13:12] <nettolo> international #ubuntu
[13:13] <bazhang> English = #ubuntu
[13:13] <nettolo> but english is international language #ubuntu can be internetional chan
[13:14] <bazhang> nettolo, any way , wait some time, glpiana will respond some time in the future.
[13:14] <nettolo> i think so no it is very angry :(
[16:12] <lefantomedurezo> !download
[16:12] <lefantomedurezo> Hello, How can I dowload source code of ircbot?
[16:13] <lefantomedurezo> on french channel the bot given me the link /buffer 6
[16:13] <lefantomedurezo> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-fr/ubuntu-bots/ubotufr   but I can't see any .py file
[16:33] <glebihan> lefantomedurezo, running the command "bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-fr/ubuntu-bots/ubotufr" will download the source code
[16:36] <lefantomedurezo> -bash: bzr: command not found: witch package should I to install?
[16:37] <Tm_T> bzr
[16:39] <lefantomedurezo> okay, thank you
[20:13] <izdubar> I got 29 minutes , hopefully that is enough time
[20:13] <izdubar> this is Mark Terranova
[20:14] <Pici> izdubar: Whats up?
[20:15] <izdubar> I think this is where Laura told me to go
[20:15]  * izdubar guesses no, shes not here :)
[20:15] <Pici> izdubar: For?
[20:15] <izdubar> Sorry bout yesterday
[20:15] <erUSUL> !nicksetup
[20:15] <erUSUL> ?
[20:15] <izdubar> Cali is getting old
[20:16]  * izdubar is still gagged in Cali
[20:17] <pleia2> nudged laura, we got him to the right channel
[20:24] <izdubar> ty
[20:25] <Pici> pleia2: So you need nothing from me at the moment?
[20:25] <pleia2> Pici: only the answer to a question... coming to the PA geeknic on saturday? :)
[20:26] <Pici> pleia2: Yep :)
[20:26] <pleia2> woohoo!
[20:26] <pleia2> see you there
[20:26] <Pici> Yeah :)
[21:36] <bognarandras> hi, please activate my ubuntu member cloak - here is my launchpad profile: https://launchpad.net/~bognarandras (and sorry for the bad english)
[21:37] <erUSUL> !nicksetup | bognarandras
[21:38] <bognarandras> okay, I already registered my nick
[21:38] <easter_egg> someone from council online?
[21:39] <bognarandras> or I ask someone from #ubuntu-meeting? :P
[21:39] <erUSUL> bognarandras: ok; then you will have to wait for the usual supects to notice you
[21:39] <erUSUL> Pici topyli jussi  ...
[21:40] <bognarandras> okay
[21:41] <easter_egg> is possible to have a ubuntu/bot cloak for the brazilian bot?
[21:41] <easter_egg> the bot is ubottu-br
[22:25] <maiatoday> hi all, I would like to request a cloak, please. launchpad id: https://launchpad.net/~maiatoday
[22:37] <Tm_T> Pici: jussi: maiatoday is requesting a cloak
[22:37] <Tm_T> maiatoday: they're sleeping possibly
[22:38] <maiatoday> no problem, I can come some other time thanks Tm_T, what time zone are they on?
[22:38] <Tm_T> maiatoday: european, they went idle just few hours ago
[22:42] <ChrisWoollard> Hello
[22:42] <ChrisWoollard> I am a Ubuntu Member. Can I get a cloak?
[22:42] <ChrisWoollard> thanks
[22:43] <maiatoday> ChrisWoollard: I just asked and they seem to be asleep so I'm going to come back tomorrow, I think they also want your launchpad id link
[22:43] <ChrisWoollard> ok, thanks
[22:44] <ChrisWoollard> https://edge.launchpad.net/~cwoollard
[22:47] <nhaines> ChrisWoollard: and make sure your nick is registered.  :)
[22:48] <ChrisWoollard> it is
[22:48] <ChrisWoollard> thanks
[22:49] <Pici> maiatoday, ChrisWoollard: Please hold on a moment while I grab a staffer to apply the cloaks.
[22:49] <rww> topyli, Pici: Some cloak requests for you ^^^
[22:49] <rww> eep :)
[22:49] <ChrisWoollard> thanks
[22:50] <topyli> :)
[22:54]  * marienz looks up
[22:55] <Pici> marienz: Could you please apply an ubuntu/member cloak to both ChrisWoollard and maiatoday ?
[22:55] <Pici> lowercase cloaks of course.
[22:56] <marienz> how's that?
[22:57] <Pici> Looks good :)
[22:57] <Pici> ChrisWoollard: Congrats :)
[22:57] <nhaines> hey, it worked.  Looks spiffy!  :)
[22:57] <ChrisWoollard> thanks
[22:57] <rww> Pici: bognarandras too, unless being offline is a problem
[22:57] <ChrisWoollard> do i need to disconnect for it to apply?
[22:58] <rww> ChrisWoollard: no, it applied already, you just didn't see it happen
[22:58] <Pici> rww: I don't have a lp name for them.
[22:58] <ChrisWoollard> lovely, thanks
[22:58] <rww> Pici: 13:37:06 < bognarandras> hi, please activate my ubuntu member cloak - here is my launchpad profile: https://launchpad.net/~bognarandras
[22:58] <Pici> rww: oops
[22:59] <Pici> marienz: Is it an issue if they're not online? If so I'll just keep an eye on the nick and make a request when they return.
[23:00] <marienz> Pici: as long as I can see in here that they did ask they don't have to be online
[23:00] <marienz> (I set maiatoday for that reason)
[23:00] <Pici> marienz: Well, could you please setup an ubuntu/member cloak for bognarandras then?
[23:00] <marienz> want me to set bognarandras then?
[23:01] <nhaines> heh
[23:01] <marienz> done
[23:01] <Pici> marienz: Thanks for all the help
[23:01] <marienz> no problem
[23:02] <rww> Pici: also, if you want to be super-awesome, easter_egg|off's been asking about ubuntu/bot/ cloaks for the last couple of days and nobody knows what the procedure and qualifications are for them ;P
[23:02] <Pici> Email the IRCC, we don't get enough mail anyway ;)
[23:03] <Pici> easter_egg|off: Please email the IRCC regarding your bot cloak requests, Our email address is irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com