[02:19] <sanguine1> hello i need some help with my python script and the indicator applet
[02:19] <sanguine1> i can't seem to get the applet to recognize that my script is running
[02:19] <sanguine1> it only shows the arrow next to the entry when i run the script directly from the command line
[02:34] <sanguine1> never mind, i had the wrong path for the .desktop file
[08:30] <lucidfox> It seems the libappindicator bindings in Maverick are bugged
[08:30] <lucidfox> I had to manually edit them to make them work
[08:30] <lucidfox> er
[08:30] <lucidfox> Vala bindings, I mean. The .vapi file
[09:41] <kklimonda> lucidfox: that's quite possible, what have you changed?
[09:41] <lucidfox> kklimonda> I'll post a patch against the Maverick version in a moment
[09:42] <lucidfox> the patch is against the .vapi file, though, and it's autogenerated
[09:45] <kklimonda> lucidfox: it may still help
[09:51] <lucidfox> kklimonda> bug #632996
[09:51] <kklimonda> ah, yes..
[09:53] <kklimonda> this is what you get when you don't follow GObject naming scheme
[09:56] <lucidfox> Well, "../src" was just developer oversight, evidently :)
[09:58] <kklimonda> meh, whole API breaks all conventions of GObject so gobject introspection generates garbage and so does vapigen..
[09:58] <Cimi> hi chaotic
[09:59] <kklimonda> you have _get_menu and _set_menu that take/return GtkMenu argument and then you have a menu property that is a string..
[10:00] <lucidfox> well yes, that's odd
[10:00] <lucidfox> same with status
[10:01] <kklimonda> and icon - you have _get_icon and _set_icon but property is icon-name
[10:01] <kklimonda> I've complained about it months ago
[10:01] <kklimonda> apparently not loud enough
[10:02] <kklimonda> and now we are probably stuck with this excuse for an API anyway
[10:06] <kklimonda> lucidfox: for now the only thing to do is to ship your own .vapi with project
[10:06] <kklimonda> I
[10:07] <kklimonda> I'm going to poke tedg when he's online about it but, as I've written in my comment, fixing it is not trivial.
[10:09] <lucidfox> Well, we all know what happens with new GUI elements
[10:09] <lucidfox> First they appear in external libraries. Second they appear in GTK, the GTK developers do them right, and the external libraries are deprecated. :p
[10:10] <lucidfox> Is there no way to provide hints for gir/vapigen to generate the correct bindings?
[10:14] <kklimonda> lucidfox: not that I know of
[10:14] <kklimonda> lucidfox: not for this kind of problems
[10:14] <kklimonda> if bindings weren't generated from .gir you could do basically everything in the .metadata file
[10:15] <kklimonda> but Ayatana devs believe it's wrong way of doing that because it can't be easility tested when you do changes to the library.
[10:15] <kklimonda> so they have opted for .gir
[10:16] <kklimonda> the poor API has been one of the reasons the inclusion of libindicator into Gtk+ has failed.
[10:16] <lucidfox> Then the GTK developers should write GtkPanelIndicator or something that offers a better API for this :p
[10:17] <kklimonda> that's not really how things work.
[10:17] <kklimonda> there are no Gtk+ developers per se after all..
[10:17] <lucidfox> ...no wonder it's stagnating then :(
[10:17] <kklimonda> indeed
[10:17] <kklimonda> but the situation is getting better recently.
[10:18] <kklimonda> still if anyone were to provide GtkPanelIndicator it would have to be Ayatana
[10:19] <kklimonda> and those who provide code would have to justify why do we need a duplicate of GtkStatusIcon
[10:19] <lucidfox> Pah! Just deprecate GtkStatusIcon! :p
[10:19] <lucidfox> I think GTK is architecturally superior in its core concepts, but... Qt has Trolltech/Nokia's corporate backing, and it really shows. In just about everything :(
[10:20] <kklimonda> well, I agree that Gtk+ is part of a better platform.
[10:21] <kklimonda> and it's written in C
[10:21] <kklimonda> who in their right mind would even touch C++... ;)
[10:21] <lucidfox> yeah :S
[10:22] <lucidfox> I would actually like to see more application developers moving away from C to Vala, Python or C#, and see larger parts of the core platform stack rewritten in Vala
[10:23] <kklimonda> lucidfox: Vala, in my opinion, while a great idea, is still a too thin wrapper over C
[10:24] <Cimi> iainfarrell: ivanka: do I need to move to London in order to speak with chaotic? :) I guess I'll rent a house :D please poke him *live*!
[10:24] <lucidfox> Well
[10:24] <Cimi> I've don esome cool updates
[10:25] <lucidfox> if I wanted to attract new developers to a "sexy" platform to write applications for, I'd point them to Mono/Gtk#, but the very mention of Mono is enough to cause half the community to go RAWR MICROSOFT TAINT
[10:25] <ivanka> cimi: I am working at home today and I think they are doing a fire alarm test in Millbank which means walking all the way down and then up again
[10:26] <kklimonda> lucidfox: do we really need half a dozen of different VMs running on  our desktops? :/
[10:26] <lucidfox> Hardly half a dozen
[10:27] <lucidfox> One CLI to rule them all
[10:27] <kklimonda> lucidfox: every time I see how much ram do gwibber use.. or even the smallest applet I'm irritated.
[10:27] <lucidfox> Well, Python is just :S
[10:28] <kklimonda> writing in python or mono seem to disable something in programmers' minds and they stop tracking how much memory do their applications use.
[10:28] <lucidfox> or it's just the VMs that are written that way
[10:28] <lucidfox> Python has its legitimate uses as a scripting language, but writing serious desktop applications in it just sounds odd to me
[10:28] <kklimonda> lucidfox: that too is a problem - but the fact that they hide memory managment doesn't help.
[10:29] <lucidfox> More importantly, to attract new developers, I think providing better toolchains and IDEs is more important than providing better languages
[10:29] <kklimonda> lucidfox: meheheh.. :/
[10:29] <lucidfox> Qt has the right idea with Qt Creator
[10:29] <Cimi> ivanka: oh thank you boss ;)
[10:30] <kklimonda> a good IDE built around clang with great profiling tools, support for valgrind, good gdb integration, with a nice GUI.. we can dream of it ;)
[10:30] <lucidfox> and *not* using autotools.
[10:31] <kklimonda> meh, I got used to autotools.
[10:31] <kklimonda> sure, they ain't pretty
[10:31] <lucidfox> You did, but requesting new developers to understand the arcane syntax is just too much, I think
[10:32] <lucidfox> not just syntax - all the arcane gotchas that come with it
[10:32] <ivanka> cimi: hehe
[10:32] <lucidfox> not to mention that a build system based on shell scripts is unportable by design
[10:37] <lucidfox> "@Andr?s, why would Gnome want to switch to CMake? From my experience with it, it?s a pretty rubbish system? I had a lot of trouble with it. For example, it couldn?t even do pkg-config without a 3rd party script."
[10:37] <lucidfox> Epic facepalm
[10:37] <davidbarth> Cimi: ok, wassup with the resizer?
[10:37] <davidbarth> Cimi: hi, btw ;)
[10:40] <Cimi> davidbarth: what about the cody's patch to add resize grippers without needing to add them in the statusbar?
[10:43] <davidbarth> Cimi: i don't think he has it, or that it is ready
[10:43] <Cimi> davidbarth: so it won't land in maverick?
[10:44] <davidbarth> Cimi: plus it's past feature and UI freeze now
[10:45] <davidbarth> Cimi: let's check with bratsche once he wakes up for the level of complexity, but i doubt it's that easy, so which means a risky change to propose at that stage
[11:06] <Cimi> chaotic: ?
[15:06] <bratsche> Cimi, davidbarth: I have a patch somewhere (forgot what computer it's on now), but it hasn't received much testing or review.  I seriously doubt seb128 would accept such a patch at this point, and I kind of wouldn't blame him. :)
[15:06] <Cimi> ok
[15:06] <bratsche> I can look for the patch though.
[15:07] <bratsche> And then we can figure out what we want to do with it.
[15:08] <bratsche> I found my original patch, but this isn't the latest one: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591721
[15:08] <davidbarth> bratsche: putting it in the same gtk daily build as the one that i'd like to have for argb
[15:09] <bratsche> There was one that also had kind of a weird hack to either GtkScrollbar or GtkScrolledWindow, and I guess I never posted it on bugzilla.  I'll try to find it.
[16:47] <Cimi> chaotic: ?
[17:01] <chaotic> Cimi: hi, been in meetings