[00:00] <dantti> Riddell: check to see if your *.desktop files from kpk has some tag  *-V2=
[00:00]  * ScottK has no lost+found in systemsettings on maverick.
[00:00]  * Riddell starts up a live CD VM to check
[00:01] <Riddell> dantti: they don't
[00:01] <dantti> Riddell: I installed my maverick just today with the beta cd
[00:01] <dantti> Riddell: if any of them has that V2 thing there is the problem, is you kpk up2date?
[00:03] <dantti> Riddell: you need "X-KDE-System-Settings-Parent-Category-V2=system-administration" in /usr/share/kde4/services/settings-manage-software.desktop
[00:03] <maco> Sput: is there a way to change kbd focus to panes other than the typing-in textbox? like so i can go to the channels list and arrow key through them or something? my touchpad keeps breaking
[00:03] <Sput> maco: 0.7 has keyboard navigation for channels using alt+arrow
[00:03] <dantti> hmm wrong desktop file, I think it was settings-add-rm.desktop
[00:04] <maco> Sput: ok thank you :) if i have a separate pane with my PMs in it, is there a way i can get focus over to that?
[00:05] <Sput> maco: yes, with alt+left/right
[00:05] <maco> i was trying ctrl+pgup and ctrl+pgdn and failing
[00:05] <Riddell> fresh beta live CD http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/kpackagekit-systemsettings.png
[00:05] <Sput> the active pane is marked with a dot
[00:05] <Riddell> is buggy
[00:05] <maco> Sput: thank you
[00:05] <Sput> there's still some bugs with the keynav, such as not always being one marked, I hope I'll get those fixed in time for the release
[00:05] <Sput> but basically the idea is to be able to navigate through all the chats using alt+arrow
[00:06] <Sput> (and then we have the quick access shortcuts alt+0-9 and ctrl+0-9 for your 10 favorite channels)
[00:07] <maco> favourites? how do we mark these?
[00:08] <dantti> Riddell: funny, why does it work on some machines and others don't? apachelogger any ideas?
[00:08] <Sput> maco: marking with ctrl+number, jumping to it with alt+number
[00:09] <Sput> both are configurable via shortcut settings too
[00:09] <Sput> (in 0.7)
[00:09] <maco> yeah i was just looking there
[00:09] <Sput> (earlier versions already have the shortcuts, but they're not editable there)
[00:09] <maco> and i seem to have accidentally deleted this channel...
[00:09] <Riddell> dantti: I have no /usr/share/kde4/services/settings-manage-software.desktop
[00:10] <dantti> Riddell: no, you don't you must have settings-add-rm , let me check
[00:10] <maco> meta+a for active channel... whats meta? when i try to set connect-to-core with ubuntukey+g (for "go") it says Qt doesnt support the ubuntu/win/super key which i thought was also meta
[00:10] <yofel> maco: usually the windows key
[00:10] <Sput> it's the windows key for me
[00:10] <maco> hmm that just types the letter a for me
[00:10] <Riddell> dantti: yes I have settings-add-and-remove-software.desktop and it has X-KDE-System-Settings-Parent-Category-V2=system-administration
[00:10] <yofel> o.O
[00:10] <Sput> no idea if ubuntu does something weird there :)
[00:10] <maco> yofel: i mean if i hit win+a i just get a
[00:10] <dantti> Riddell: yup, settings-add-and-remove-settings.desktop
[00:11] <dantti> Riddell: try kbuildsycoca4
[00:11] <yofel> odd
[00:12] <Riddell> dantti: kbuildsycoca4 -noincremental doesn't help 
[00:14] <dantti> Riddell: try removing the non V2 line, and removing the -V2 line to see if it works
[00:15] <dantti> I think you will need to run kbuildsycoca4 again
[00:16] <Riddell> dantti: if I remove X-KDE-System-Settings-Parent-Category=computer-administration it shows Software Management as a top level item in system settings with the 3 kpk modules in it individually
[00:18] <maco> ehehe kde power manager is weird
[00:18] <Riddell> dantti: ooh, my systemsettings package wasn't up to date
[00:18] <Riddell> updating that fixed it
[00:18] <maco> it doesnt recognise that im plugged in, so as its charging and getting *up* to "warning level" it's warning me that ive reached it
[00:18] <dantti> Riddell: :P
[00:18] <Riddell> how curious
[00:19] <dantti> the fix was on 4.5.1 iirc
[00:19] <yofel> *sigh* - any way to make powerdevil NOT set hdd power management values?
[00:19] <Riddell> guess so
[00:21] <Riddell> dantti: sorry for the hassle then :)
[00:21] <dantti> Riddell: np :P
[00:27] <apparle> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rekonq/+bug/602141 what next
[00:27] <apparle> Riddell: anything else to do?
[00:34] <EagleScreen_> sudo kate opens kate with gtk+ style, but kdesudo kate opens kate with oxygen style, strange
[00:34] <maco> sudo doesnt set environment right for graphical apps
[00:35] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1172726 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/DownloadWidget.cpp Sane default column sizing for all!
[00:37] <debfx> apparle: we should fix qtwebkit instead of rekonq
[00:38] <apparle> debfx: that's I think already done upstream.
[00:38] <apparle> debfx: that fix is only for lucid
[00:38] <debfx> apparle: yes, we should fix qtwebkit in lucid
[00:39] <debfx> apparle: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-kde/qt4-x11.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a35ead46af248ecb37573dcec90e8ea87dde80e
[00:39] <apparle> debfx: IMHO qtwebkit 2.0 should be brought in for lucid :)
[00:40] <apparle> debfx: still I'll try compiling that fix into the existing qtwebkit. Maybe in a day or two
[00:59] <apparle> debfx: hey
[01:00] <apparle> debfx: I just checked it is more or less the same code that rekonq has just received
[02:26] <EagleScreen> putting a partition tool in Kubuntu Live CD would be useful
[02:27] <claydoh> EagleScreen: yes, if there is enough room on the cd 
[02:27] <EagleScreen> yes
[02:27]  * claydoh wonders how big partitionmanager id
[02:28] <JontheEchidna> I'd be about half a megabyte on the CD
[02:28] <JontheEchidna> *It'd
[02:28] <ScottK> Something to consider for natty
[02:29] <claydoh> half a meg is still pretty big, though :( 
[02:30] <ScottK> Not huge, but before we shipped something like that by default, it'd have to be pretty heavily tested.
[02:30] <EagleScreen> I see, the CD it already very full
[02:30] <claydoh> we could do for office suites what we did for kde4 and just go with koffice 
[02:31]  * claydoh runs and ducks from the trhown objects
[02:33] <ScottK> claydoh: No.
[02:34] <claydoh> ScottK: I know, I was just kidding, koffice is nice but not a replacement
[02:34] <claydoh> And I use it oftem myself
[02:36] <JontheEchidna> hmm, where'd smarter get off to?
[02:37] <JontheEchidna> seems that the progress bars in the new download view only update when a new item is added or paint() is called via mouse hover or somesuch...
[02:37] <JontheEchidna> http://imgur.com/7eKcI (for reference)
[03:13] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1172773 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/DownloadModel/DownloadModel.cpp Fix the per-package progress bars from not being updated except when explicitly done so by paint()
[03:37] <nixternal> ok, not having a transparent terminal/yakuake is starting to annoy me. i need my compositing with intel damnit! :p
[03:42] <nigelb> nixternal: heh
[03:42] <nixternal> it is ugly
[03:43] <nigelb> nixternal: you just lost composting, I can't even boot into lucid
[03:43] <nixternal> right about now i wouldn't mind not being able to boot into this ugliness
[03:43] <nigelb> lol
[03:43] <nigelb> I'm on Debian, so its /even/ more ugly
[03:59]  * claydoh has no compositing on his old laptop but it still looks good :)
[04:00] <claydoh> eew except for terminalm tho
[04:00] <claydoh> ati has issues as well I guess
[04:01] <nixternal> exactly, the terminal is my biggest grief to be honest. i am used to using a transparent terminal so i can see stuff under it when writing
[04:52] <EagleScreen_> when I enable Desktop Effects in maverick, the Desktop become crazzy
[04:52] <EagleScreen_> intel graphics
[04:53] <maco> EagleScreen_:  yeah its broken. scottk's been saying so for 2 days
[04:53] <ScottK> nixternal: Try the newer mesa in the sarvatt/mesa ppa with this http://sarvatt.com/downloads/drirc.txt as ~/.drirc 
[04:54] <ScottK> EagleScreen_: ^^^ you too.
[04:54] <maco> he has a new version of kdebase-workspace in his ppa that seems to work for me
[04:54] <maco> ohai ScottK
[04:54] <ScottK> maco: Try the sarvatt/mesa ppa mesa with the ~/.drirc, but without my kdebase-workspace.
[04:54] <ScottK> If that more generally fixes it, I think it's better.
[04:55] <maco> oh boo.  have to downgrade and ... hrmph... thursday
[04:55] <ScottK> maco: Use ppa-purge
[04:55] <maco> but its working for now!
[04:55] <maco> and i cant download anything til thursday
[04:55] <ScottK> Oh.
[04:55] <maco> (that's when i'll be at school again and therefore have bandwidth)
[04:55] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:55] <ScottK> OK.  Try it then.
[04:56] <maco> right now i have bandnarrow ;)
[04:56] <ScottK> Sure.
[04:56] <EagleScreen_> ppa:sarvatt/mesa ?
[04:56] <ScottK> EagleScreen_: Yes.
[04:56] <ScottK> With the ~/.drirc.
[04:56] <ScottK> You may have to remove your kwinrc too.
[04:57] <ScottK> WIth that combination I got working effects (including blur) on my i945gme netbook.
[04:58]  * ScottK heads off to bed again.
[05:10] <EagleScreen_> now Desktop Effects seems to work well
[07:08] <jussi> Hrm, on lucid, I have the backports and the beta PPA's enabled, and I have 222 blocked updates. some one know whats up?
[07:08] <jussi> steveire: ping
[09:01] <apachelogger> did I mention that the monochrome icons in ubiquity look all sorts of odd and do not fit in with oxygen artwork terribly well?
[09:43] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: is there a chance to have a more recent kdepim than beta1? I bet there has been quite some improvements
[09:45] <apachelogger> Mamarok: that is beta3
[09:46] <Mamarok> well, I still have beta1 here
[09:46] <apachelogger> then you should upgrade
[09:47] <Mamarok> I would love to, but from where?
[09:47]  * Mamarok checks if she has the right PPA
[09:47] <apachelogger> aha
[09:47] <apachelogger> Mamarok: actually you should have beta2
[09:47]  * apachelogger pokes shadeslayer
[09:47] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: there is no beta3 for lucid but a FTBFSing one
[09:48] <Mamarok> I didn't disable the PPA, but nothing comes in, still says beta1
[09:48] <apachelogger> it would be good not to stop work in the middle of something
[09:48] <Mamarok> yeah
[09:55] <apachelogger> ScottK: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot32.png
[09:59]  * apachelogger ponders writing a model
[10:10] <Sput> yeah, QSFPModel is cool for that kind of stuff
[10:28] <apachelogger> Sput: well, I doubt one has enough entries in the hosts file to need that ;)
[10:29] <Sput> that's what one always thinks
[10:29] <Sput> and then later you regret not having it done right from the start
[10:29] <Sput> subclassing QSFPModel isn't that much work :)
[10:35] <apachelogger> Sput: abstractitemmodel then sfp :P
[10:36] <Sput> I'm not a masochist, kthxbai
[10:36] <apachelogger> pff
[10:36] <Sput> (and yes, I've reimplemented more abstractitemmodels than is good for my health)
[10:36] <apachelogger> clearly you are not 
[10:36] <apachelogger> ScottK: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot33.png
[10:36] <Sput> Quassel has mutated into a bunch of layered models over time
[10:37] <Sput> that said, since I've upgraded my Qt to 4.7 quassel hasn't crashed once for me, looks like it really was bugs in Qt 4.6 that made it so crashy in the last cycle
[10:38] <apachelogger> once you have a model the app will naturally mutate into a model beast
[10:38] <apachelogger> that is why I only ponder making one in case someone wants to use it for a later project
[10:44] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot34.png
[10:44] <apachelogger> there we go now
[10:53] <Mamarok> apachelogger: wow, you use QtCreator in French?
[10:53] <Mamarok> bravo :)
[10:53] <apachelogger> the whole system :P
[10:53] <apachelogger> It is not like I write french comments tough :P
[10:54] <Mamarok> c'est du joli :)
[11:09] <apachelogger> dantti: bug 633008
[11:12]  * apachelogger wonders whether a tree-like representation would be better for the hosts
[11:13] <apachelogger> after all n names to 1 ip addresss seems like something treeish to me 
[11:13] <apachelogger> only one level of depth but still
[11:16] <apachelogger> hm
[11:17] <apachelogger> OTOH it can be n to n by means of having a name listed for individual addresses
[11:17] <apachelogger> like by default the hostname would be associated with 127.0.0.1 and an address that NM obtained via dhcp
[11:34] <Riddell> blurg, quassel doesn't pick up the KDE locale setting
[11:37] <jussi> Sput: ^^
[11:38] <Sput> hm, we should pick up whatever Qt picks up
[11:38] <Sput> I think
[11:38] <Sput> please check if you have "system default" selected as your language
[11:38] <ScottK> apachelogger: Nice.
[11:40] <ulysses> JontheEchidna: in libdebconf-kde.po „Debconf on %1”, what does %1 mean?
[11:52] <Riddell> Sput: yes it's set to "system default" which is C
[11:52] <Riddell> and if I set $LANG correctly it picks that up
[11:53] <Riddell> but KDE doesn't have a way to set $LANG
[11:53] <Sput> hmm... so that's an issue in QLocale then, I guess
[11:53] <Sput> I mean I could add something for KDE if I figure out how
[11:53] <Sput> but it's something that probably should be fixed in Qt as well
[11:53] <Riddell> no it's an issue in KDE, it has no way to set $LANG
[11:53] <Sput> (via the platform integration stuff)
[11:53] <Sput> ... or that.
[11:54] <Riddell> wouldn't be hard, just needs the Locale kcm to put an export into ~/.kde/env
[12:00] <Sput> true, and thus make it work with all properly coded apps
[12:00] <JontheEchidna> ulysses: best ask dantti
[12:01] <ulysses> dantti: what does „%1” mean in libdebconf-kde.po, in string „Debconf on %1”?
[12:01] <ulysses> JontheEchidna: thanls
[12:03] <apachelogger> Riddell: I am removig the KDE config list
[12:03] <Riddell> apachelogger: what's that?
[12:03] <apachelogger> Riddell: the non-qt-langauge-selector way of selecting a language
[12:03] <apachelogger> which is limited to klocale 
[12:03] <Riddell> err
[12:04] <Riddell> pourquoi?
[12:04] <apachelogger> what needs doing is actuall move the whole locale KCM to the year 2010 and make it export appropriate lang vars
[12:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: because it is broken
[12:04] <apachelogger> it only manipulates kdeglobals' language setting
[12:04] <apachelogger> which is only used by KLocale
[12:05] <apachelogger> if it ensure that appropriate enviornment variables are exported also Qt apps, openoffice etc. get a chance to use the right locale
[12:06] <Riddell> apachelogger: sounds good but you're not doing this for maverick right?
[12:06] <apachelogger> Riddell: for maverick we should just remove it and limit to language-selector settings
[12:06] <Riddell> that requires a user to be root
[12:06] <Riddell> and stops anyone changing it per user
[12:06] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot28.png
[12:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: it does not change per user
[12:07] <apachelogger> it changes per user for KDE apps
[12:07] <apachelogger> which is pretty much worthless
[12:07] <Riddell> nobody has complained so far (which astonishes me but there we go)
[12:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: because they do consider the whole locale kcm broken
[12:08] <apachelogger> like yesterday .. which btw turned out to be a problem partially a KDE problem
[12:09] <apachelogger> -problem ^^
[12:09] <Riddell> which of yesterday's problems was a KDE problem?
[12:09] <Riddell> the en_GB one?
[12:09] <apachelogger> xyes
[12:09] <apachelogger> -x
[12:09] <Riddell> does non-KDE translations do any different?
[12:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: turns out klocale was messing up the order
[12:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot27.png that is what I would like to have in maverick (well, + country selector)
[12:11] <apachelogger> for 11.04 we need a user experience bump for the whole locale configuration business
[12:12] <Riddell> I'm all for fixing kcm locale but I'm hesitant to do it in Kubuntu first, and not a week before final freeze
[12:12] <Riddell> that solution does stop any hope of per-user settings and it's not usual for one user on a machine to use a different language from the system language
[12:12] <Riddell> I wouldn't want albert and pino to start moaning about how Kubuntu has broken locales again (even though it's a KDE problem)
[12:13] <apachelogger> that part of the KCM is broken IMO
[12:16] <Riddell> sure but it's not a new problem, it's always been like that in KDE
[12:16] <Riddell> fixing it this close to final freeze is asking for problems
[12:17] <Riddell> especially a half hearted fix like that
[12:17] <Riddell> it should be fixed upstream
[12:18] <apachelogger> of course it should be fixed upstream, but right now we are the ones deploying that brokenness to users
[12:18] <Riddell> do you know why KDE doesn't just use $LANG and $LANGUAGE?  is it just historical?
[12:20] <apachelogger> I have no idea
[12:20] <apachelogger> well, I mean, they do...
[12:20] <apachelogger> what I think is the problem is that no one bothered to implement the LANG LANGUAGE foo in connection with the KCM
[12:20] <Riddell> KLocale does use $LANG and $LANGUAGE but can be overridden by kdeglobals and $KDE_LANG?
[12:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: yep
[12:23] <Riddell> well it certainly needs fixed but as a problem which isn't new I'm really hesitant to make half-hearted changes at this stage in the cycle, and anything involving locale needs to be run by chussilove and albert else they'll eat us for dinner
[12:25] <Riddell> you should also be able to set session language in KDM, that's another long standing issue
[12:26] <apachelogger> that said
[12:26] <apachelogger> Riddell: can we get autologin by default?
[12:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: the GTK installer frontend just switched back to not autologin by default yesterday
[12:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: how so?
[12:27] <Riddell> ev looked at the design spec he'd been given and realised it didn't specify autologin selected by default
[12:27] <apachelogger> well
[12:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: IMHO it makes first use experience a whole lot better
[12:29] <Riddell> it also removes a layer of security
[12:29] <Riddell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/07/%23ubuntu-installer.html  see 10:53
[12:32] <apachelogger> hm
[12:32] <Riddell> and 12:05
[12:34] <apachelogger> I do not see how autologin discourages creation of accounts ... that is largely based on the assumption that a user knows how to create an account and why they want to do it ...
[12:34] <apachelogger> related to that I think autologin should be turned off if the user adds another account anyway
[12:35] <Sput> uh. wow. the .drirc stuff (plus indirect rendering) have made desktop effects on my intel box actually usable
[12:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: also about security ... autologin being only of importance when you have physical access to the machine, if you have physical access you can easily go to recovery mode and not only have access to user data but all data
[12:39] <apachelogger> so, if login security is a concern with physical access to the device I think we should start with questioning how recovery works right now
[12:39] <ScottK> apachelogger: There's a difference between being able to sit down at a machine and casually access data and being able to reboot to the maintenance console and have time to really take it apart.
[12:39] <ScottK> apachelogger: autologin to a locked screen is an option that might be nice.
[12:40] <apachelogger> ScottK: assuming the machine is turned off... by the time you have the desktop started I'd have downloaded a keylogger and placed it in init.d
[12:41] <apachelogger> and even if it were not ... say kdm is up ... I hit the reste button or invoke a shutdown via power button and up we go again
[12:41] <Sput> ScottK: seems you guys are on the right track with debugging intel issues. just adding the .drirc and the ALWAYS_INDIRECT (or whatever it was) env var made desktop effects actually workign on my GM45, including blur
[12:41] <Sput> didn't apply any patches to kwin or mesa
[12:42] <ScottK> Sput: The .drirc was enough for me with a recent mesa git snapshot, but it was i945.
[12:43] <ScottK> Sput: Perhaps you could file a bug with the mesa folks.
[12:43] <Sput> I think I'd rather leave that for mgraesslin :)
[12:43] <Sput> I don't understand all the issues
[12:44] <Sput> I think I'll also try and finetune things over time, right now I just copied what was posted here and it worked
[12:44] <Sput> ... kwin still crashing on changing effects though, obviously
[12:46] <ScottK> Crashing is progress from freezing I think.
[12:59]  * Riddell nudges dpm towards accepting the bluedevil templates https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/bluedevil/+imports
[13:03] <CIA-116> [muon] gmartres * 1173007 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/DownloadModel/ (DownloadModel.cpp DownloadModel.h) DownloadModel: replace the QHash with a PackageDetails private class since we don't need to add new properties at runtime
[13:04] <CIA-116> [muon] gmartres * 1173008 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/libmuon/DownloadModel/DownloadModel.cpp PackageDetails: initialize the "status" member variable in the constructor
[13:07] <Riddell> apachelogger: kde bug 82009
[13:07] <dantti> ulysses: Debconf on %1 means Debconf on -hostname-
[13:08] <Riddell> comment #9 may be the significant one
[13:08] <ulysses> dantti: thanks
[13:08] <dantti> ulysses: np
[13:08] <dantti> apachelogger: I do use kpk with proxy here and it works fine
[13:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: hard != impossible ;)
[13:09] <Riddell> although I don't think that should be a problem, we're using gettext values now, no reason why they should be any different
[13:09] <dantti> apachelogger: well actually I never tested setting it in /etc/apt.conf, since most users set their proxies on kde config module
[13:09] <Riddell> kde bug 88934  may be related to that
[13:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, fr_FR internally gets used as fr, so one would have to expand to fr_FR.utf8 for LANG I think
[13:10] <apachelogger> dantti: oh, dont get me started on proxy settings
[13:10] <apachelogger> that is an even worse mess than locale
[13:12] <dantti> apachelogger: k, I'm going to work now, I'll test those files there..
[13:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 88934 is coming from system locale being C I suppose
[13:12] <apachelogger> dantti: okidoki
[13:15] <Riddell> apachelogger: I don't actually understand what his problem is in kde bug 88934
[13:16] <apachelogger> oh
[13:17] <apachelogger> reading it a second time I see other failure ^^
[13:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: that might actually be a duplicate
[13:17] <apachelogger> or maybe not
[13:17]  * apachelogger gives up understanding and continues implementing a hostsmodel
[13:21] <Riddell> dpm: is there anyone to take care of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/ubuntu/maverick/language-support-fonts-zh-hans/fix-625163/+merge/33977 ?
[13:22] <shadeslayer> hmm
[13:23] <shadeslayer> IIRC kdepim beta 3 built fine for lucid
[13:23] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: apachelogger ^
[13:24] <shadeslayer> im having a looksie
[13:24] <apachelogger> not in experimental it didnt
[13:24] <shadeslayer> :O
[13:24] <shadeslayer> oic
[13:24] <shadeslayer> see.. i was trying to copy packages into experimental and it kept timing out
[13:25] <shadeslayer> thats why its FTBFS
[13:25] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: I am waiting for updates since you set up that PPA with beta1
[13:25] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: yes, beta 2 was ftbfs for no reason since the maverick ones built fine
[13:25] <shadeslayer> i am extremely sorry
[13:26] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: you have kde 4.5.1 right?
[13:26] <Mamarok> well, since you started to provide packages for Lucid, could you pleas continue to? Leaving people with beta1 is a nogo
[13:26] <Mamarok> yep
[13:26] <shadeslayer> ok ill copy the packages might take some time depending on lunchpad
[13:29] <CIA-116> [muon] gmartres * 1173020 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (4 files in 3 dirs) Use size() instead of count() with QList since the later is intended to be used when counting the occurence of a specific value
[13:33] <apachelogger> agateau_: does the gnome indicator applet eat ksystrayicons?
[13:34] <agateau_> apachelogger: what do you mean with "eat"?
[13:34] <apachelogger> oh
[13:34] <apachelogger> agateau_: nvm
[13:34] <agateau_> ok :)
[13:34] <apachelogger> or actually
[13:35] <apachelogger> agateau_: if a KSNI is passive will it still show up in their applet?
[13:35] <agateau> apachelogger: no it won't iirc
[13:35] <apachelogger> apparently akonaditray does not show up in gnome, despite it being a KSNI
[13:35] <agateau> apachelogger: and there is no way to show it :/
[13:35] <apachelogger> once I remove the indicator and add the notification applet it works
[13:35] <apachelogger> agateau: very flexible thing
[13:36] <agateau> notification applet == old-fashioned x-embed systray
[13:36] <apachelogger> they truely follow the gnome mantra of not having features :P
[13:36] <agateau> apachelogger: indeed
[13:36] <agateau> apachelogger: flexibility is gnome nickname :)
[13:36] <apachelogger> ^^
[13:36]  * apachelogger moves bug around
[13:36] <shadeslayer> ...
[13:38] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: kate says it wont maitain ABI for 3rd party plugins
[13:39] <shadeslayer> or more like kwrite-devel says that
[13:39] <apachelogger> cool
[13:40] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: then tell them that we will not distribute their crap and that shall please stop installing headers for ABI and API changing crap that no one should be using anyway :P
[13:40] <shadeslayer> im forwarding you a copy
[13:44] <apachelogger> hm
[13:45] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ask him to add a remark for packagers to not package the headers if he does not want to support 3rd party plugins
[13:46] <apachelogger> or
[13:46] <apachelogger> actually
[13:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: if he really gets everything in one git repo he should please stop installing the header alltogether but use it only internally
[13:47] <apachelogger> there is an interest conflict otherwise IMHO
[13:48] <txwikinger> Riddell: We manufactured nice Kubuntu buttons yesterday.. I think I have to take a picture one of the days and post it on my blog :)
[13:52] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ahahahahaha.... akonaditray icon is eaten up by a gnome :P
[13:52] <EagleScreen_> in maverick, with Desktop Effects enabled, X crash when I apply a KDE color scheme
[13:53] <Riddell> txwikinger: buttons?  what sort of buttons?
[13:53] <txwikinger> to pin on your clothes or whereever you like
[13:53] <ScottK> EagleScreen_: Try disabling effects, apply the scheme, and reenable.
[13:54] <Riddell> txwikinger: badges is probably the word, got a picture?
[13:54] <Riddell> oh you said, you have to take a picture
[13:54] <EagleScreen_> ScottK: ofcourse it works well without effects
[13:54] <txwikinger> Riddell: well.. here in Canada we call them buttons :D
[13:55]  * apachelogger giggles
[13:55] <apachelogger> candaians
[13:55]  * apachelogger giggles a bit more :P
[13:55] <ScottK> EagleScreen_: OK.  There's already a bug in b.k.o about changing effects settings with effects enabled causing the screen to freeze.  I'd go ahead and file another bug there.
[13:55] <txwikinger> I haven't taken a picture yet... but I should
[13:56] <EagleScreen_> okay
[13:56] <txwikinger> Riddell: Maria said everything is cool with the CDs.. and we got a confereence pack too
[13:56] <txwikinger> So we should be set for Software Freedom Day and for the Southern Ontario Hackerspace Conference
[13:57] <txwikinger> That's what the buttons (UK English badges) are for :D
[13:58] <apachelogger> cool
[13:59] <EagleScreen_> what do you think about change the KDE login splash by this? http://opendesktop.org/content/show.php?content=123353 it matches the plymouth splash
[14:00] <EagleScreen_> so it seems that there is oly one splash
[14:00]  * txwikinger wonders if he should show Kubuntu Maverick on those occasions
[14:01] <apachelogger> txwikinger: only if desktop effects are working I'd say
[14:01] <EagleScreen_> the same splash for boot and for Desktop loading?
[14:01] <apachelogger> txwikinger: especially blur
[14:01] <txwikinger> apachelogger: Are they working?
[14:01] <apachelogger> txwikinger: blur is a killer
[14:01] <apachelogger> txwikinger: depends on your graphics chip mostly
[14:01] <apachelogger> s/chip/driver
[14:01] <txwikinger> hmm.. atom N280 
[14:01] <txwikinger> intel 
[14:01] <apachelogger> not working
[14:02] <apachelogger> txwikinger: better show lucid with KDE 4.5
[14:02] <apachelogger> there it should be working even ^^
[14:02] <txwikinger> my laptop has an intel 89.. something
[14:02] <sheytan> hey, leave the splash screen as is :)
[14:02] <txwikinger> or I could use an old MacBook
[14:02] <rgreening> hey all
[14:02] <apachelogger> yo rgreening
[14:02] <txwikinger> heya fellow Canadian
[14:02] <rgreening> wazzup apachelogger
[14:02] <rgreening> hey txwikinger
[14:03] <txwikinger> How was Earl?
[14:03] <rgreening> lol
[14:03] <rgreening> breezy
[14:03] <rgreening> :)
[14:03] <apachelogger> rgreening: did you also make buttons/badges?
[14:03] <rgreening> buttons?
[14:04] <apachelogger> rgreening: yeah, txwikinger manufactured kubuntu buttons
[14:04] <rgreening> kool
[14:04] <apachelogger> *nod*
[14:04] <txwikinger> apachelogger: rgreening is several thousand km away from here
[14:04] <rgreening> Ive been a bit out of touch... work has been awful
[14:04] <apachelogger> txwikinger: so? :P
[14:05] <rgreening> Im also on an island.. not easy to get to me
[14:05] <rgreening> :P
[14:05] <txwikinger> apachelogger: Canada is a little larger than Europe :p
[14:05] <apachelogger> there is helicopters and teleporters
[14:05] <ScottK> apachelogger: Dog sleds.
[14:05] <txwikinger> .me wonders why the power light on his netbook flashes
[14:05] <rgreening> lol
[14:05] <txwikinger> ScottK: No enough snow yet
[14:05] <apachelogger> hm
[14:06] <ScottK> rgreening: Being an island won't help you when the ice comes.
[14:06] <ScottK> txwikinger: Wait a week.
[14:06] <txwikinger> ScottK: True
[14:06] <apachelogger> I would paint my dog sled blue
[14:06] <ScottK> How about the dogs?
[14:06] <rgreening> ScottK: actually, being near the ocean will mean we freeze last
[14:06]  * txwikinger think apachelogger would have a unicorn sled which is pink
[14:06] <rgreening> believe it or not
[14:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: the dogs would be blue too
[14:06] <apachelogger> did you not ever look at the amarok logo?!?
[14:07] <apachelogger> dog sort of things are supposed to be blue ^^
[14:07] <apachelogger> txwikinger: well, not in canada I wouldnt
[14:07] <apachelogger> one needs to fit in with ones sourrunding
[14:07] <apachelogger> something is wrong with that spelling
[14:07] <apachelogger> ooh well
[14:07]  * apachelogger goes back to modelling
[14:07] <ScottK> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition for added confusion.
[14:07] <txwikinger> Ah .. resetting battery helped
[14:08] <apachelogger> what a silly name
[14:08] <txwikinger> ... not really
[14:08] <txwikinger> ScottK: rofl
[14:08] <apachelogger> I propose we rename the kubuntu council to unicorn sparkles club!
[14:08] <txwikinger> ScottK: the blue dogs are the opposite of the red tories 
[14:08] <ScottK> Pretty much.
[14:10] <ScottK> Riddell: I saw a bunch of qmf/qml/qsomething packages scroll by on the Debian list recently.  Do we still want to be updating such things?
[14:12] <Riddell> I think we did sync qmf recently
[14:14] <ScottK> Yep.  We have the same.
[14:14] <ScottK> qtmobility and qtcreator were the other ones.
[14:15] <ScottK> Might want to look at merging qtcreator.
[14:15] <ScottK> qtmobility seems up to date.
[14:16] <ScottK> Ah.  qtmobility went to new.
[14:16] <ScottK> Might be worth a look then.
[14:17] <rgreening> So, who's going to UDS?
[14:17] <rgreening> or hopes to?
[14:18] <ScottK> debfx: Would you please look at qtmobility 1.0.2 (in Debian New, so you'll need to look in their VCS for packaging) and see if it's something we want for Maverick?
[14:18] <ScottK> rgreening: o/
[14:18] <CIA-116> [muon] gmartres * 1173039 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (4 files in 3 dirs) PackageView: check if the index is valid before emitting currentPackageChanged since apparently we get an invalid one when the model is clear()-ed, this prevent some crashes
[14:19] <rgreening> I'd love to apply... but I have been a bit absent... Im sure there are others more deserving atm. 
[14:19] <rgreening> unless we don't seem like we will have proper representation. in which case I'd apply.
[14:35] <shadeslayer> rgreening: me too :)
[14:36] <shadeslayer> but idk if im that strong a contender ... 
[14:42] <Riddell> ScottK, rbelem, apachelogger, Quintasan, shadeslayer, jussi, maco and valorie are the names I recognise
[14:47] <shadeslayer> i shall go insane copying one package at a time
[14:48] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: help me with the copying 
[14:48] <apachelogger> *copy*
[14:48] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: start from the back of the backports ppa  and copy stuff to the experimental ppa :P
[14:49] <shadeslayer> PPA !!!!
[14:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you do not need all of backports surely?
[14:49] <shadeslayer> um most of it i guess..
[14:49] <apachelogger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/DependencyGraph
[14:50] <apachelogger> just kdelibs and the stuff underneath that and kdepimlibs
[14:50] <apachelogger> oh and runtime of course
[14:51] <apachelogger> http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kde-dep-graph.png
[14:51] <apachelogger> if that helps
[14:51]  * apachelogger actually wanted to go to Graz today....
[14:53] <apachelogger> something is fishy with my model -.-
[15:02] <maco> Riddell: you get to see the list of applicants?
[15:04] <dpm> Riddell, re: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/ubuntu/maverick/language-support-fonts-zh-hans/fix-625163/+merge/33977 no one is taking care of it afaik - Arne is no longer there and pitti is on holiday. It would be great if someone could upload a new package with the fix
[15:05] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: you want nuno ?
[15:05] <shadeslayer> we should send him subliminal messages on identi.ca :P
[15:05] <apachelogger> please do so
[15:05] <Riddell> maco: yes
[15:05] <apachelogger> ha!
[15:05] <apachelogger> hm
[15:06] <Riddell> dpm: uploading is easy, but someone needs to be competant enough to ok the fix, are you?
[15:06]  * apachelogger has a feeling is item class is crap
[15:06] <dpm> Riddell, not on this case
[15:07] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: ok rebuild requested, lets see what happens
[15:08] <dpm> Riddell, we could perhaps ask on ubuntu-devel in case there's someone knowledgeable on fonts around
[15:09] <shadeslayer> i386 already started \o/
[15:09] <dpm> Riddell, and re: bluedevil, let me look at it now. Is there anything else I should know? Does it substitute any current package, or has the template moved from another source package?
[15:10] <apachelogger> ScottK: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot35.png what do you think about the thing below?
[15:11] <Riddell> dpm: bluedevil is a rewrite of KDE bluetooth bits which were previously kbluetooth (now in universe)
[15:11] <Riddell> no shared strings expected
[15:11] <maco> dpm: i see a bug in that patch
[15:11] <maco> the paths arent the same
[15:12] <dpm> Riddell, ok, on it, then
[15:12] <Riddell> dpm: is there a policy for changing strings in english translations in launchpad?
[15:12] <Riddell> e.g. https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/kubuntu-firefox-installer/+pots/desktop-kubuntu-firefox-installer/en_GB/+translate
[15:12] <ScottK> apachelogger: Interesting.  Can one add new entries or just change the hostnames and do you do hostname validation?
[15:12] <Riddell> also I see amarok has a couple changes in en_US
[15:12] <Riddell> surely those changes should be reported as bugs if they're significant
[15:12] <dpm> maco, could you add a comment on the bug, please? Thanks
[15:12] <maco> er no im  wrong. read symlink backwadrs
[15:13] <apachelogger> ScottK: it doesnt do much yet ... the idea is to allow editing the hostname and the hosts file, where either will only accept valid input
[15:14] <ScottK> That sounds good.
[15:14] <dpm> maco, no worries :)
[15:14] <apachelogger> changing the hostname in the hosts file view is gonna be tricky
[15:14] <dpm> Riddell, the en_GB team changes strings all the time. They're just like any other translation team, so there is no policy. If the translation they do is incorrect, a bug can be filed against the ubuntu-translations project and we assign it to the relevant translation team to fix, in this case the en_GB team
[15:15] <maco> dpm: adding another chinese font to the metapackage makes sense to me, and the same sort of symlinking is going on when i ls -l /etc/fonts/conf.d/ so it looks to me like itd work
[15:15] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1173062 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (6 files in 3 dirs) krazy2 fixes
[15:15]  * apachelogger thinks he will need another model to carry all hostname entries and then lay the hostsfile model ontop of that so that same names get shared across models
[15:16] <EagleScreen_> message indicator is always displayed hidden and unhidden at the same time, and it superseeds other hidden entries, see Bug #632419
[15:18] <maco> Riddell: i think the patch dpm linked is ok to upload
[15:19] <maco> i also dont think i even need to check apt-cache to know i cant upload it
[15:22] <Riddell> dpm: so they change strings without telling upstream?  I think i can see why some people don't like launchpad translations
[15:22] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: nice, thanks a bunch :)
[15:23] <ScottK> Riddell: Another reason not to use LP for translations.
[15:24] <apachelogger> ...
[15:24] <dpm> Riddell, that I didn't say - I don't know enough the en_GB team to know if they change upstream translations or not. In any case, the upstream for that particular package _is_ Launchpad afaik
[15:24] <ScottK> dpm: True.  That particular change is not a translation though, it's a change to the string.
[15:25] <ScottK> Which is totally wrong.
[15:25]  * apachelogger is upstream actually :P
[15:26] <dpm> ScottK, it's a translation than only British users will see, in the same way they change organize to organise. As I said, if people think the translation is wrong (which I do not debate), the best thing is either to ping the translators or to file a bug
[15:26] <al> you're dumping LP for translations? :>
[15:26] <ScottK> al: We aren't, but I keep hoping we will for KDE core stuff were there are ~complete upstream translations already.
[15:27] <dpm> no point in bashing LP at the minimum opportunity :(
[15:27]  * shadeslayer wonders who has luicd
[15:27] <shadeslayer> *lucid
[15:27] <ScottK> dpm: Being uhappy the system works as poorly as it does is not bashing.  It's reality.
[15:28] <dpm> ScottK, that was not a complaint about how the system works. I do complain sometimes as well. That was a complaint about a translation turned into complaints about LP
[15:28] <al> i'm just a little frustrated with LP mangling all my .po files, that's all
[15:28] <ScottK> dpm: Fair enough.
[15:29] <shadeslayer> muwhahaha.. kdepim ftbfs
[15:29] <shadeslayer> even tho i test built
[15:29] <shadeslayer> oic..
[15:29] <Riddell> al: what .po files does it mangle?
[15:29]  * ScottK picks shadeslayer's brains off the floor, shoves them back in, and puts the lid on tight.
[15:30]  * shadeslayer goes kaboom again
[15:30] <al> Riddell: all of them. it changes width and remove fuzzies for example
[15:30]  * ScottK gets a mop.
[15:30] <Riddell> al: in Quassel?
[15:31] <al> Riddell: yea
[15:31] <Riddell> al: but Quassel's translations are done in Launchpad, no?
[15:31] <al> Riddell: not exclusively
[15:32] <shadeslayer> so either something is broken in dep graph or something needs copying
[15:32] <shadeslayer> probably the latter
[15:32] <al> Riddell: we also support (actually prefer) transifex
[15:32] <Riddell> dpm: do you know why plasma_applet_application_menu isn't in the french language pack? https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/plasma-widget-menubar/+pots/plasma-applet-application-menu/fr/+translate
[15:33] <Riddell> al: where is that?
[15:34] <al> Riddell: what - transifex? http://transifex.net/projects/p/quassel/c/master/
[15:34] <dpm> Riddell, no, I don't know, let me sort out the bluedevil stuff first, be back in a sec
[15:35] <Riddell> agateau: is plasma-applet-application-menu even the right translation domain for plasma-widget-menubar ?
[15:36] <agateau> Riddell: I have no idea :/
[15:41] <dpm> Riddell, so, shall I disable the two kdebluetooth templates in https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/kbluetooth? And most importantly, to which source package does bluedevil belong?
[15:41] <maco> Riddell: oh hey wait you saying me is a good sign. i got a blank page at the end of filling out the form and wasnt sure it submitted
[15:44] <Riddell> dpm: yes please disable the ones from kbluetooth
[15:44] <Riddell> dpm: bluedevil is the source package name
[15:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: if launchpad would be any slower it would have been called turtlepad
[15:49] <apachelogger> teenage mutant ninja turtles?
[15:49] <apachelogger> omg
[15:49] <apachelogger> wuah
[15:49] <apachelogger> brrrr
[15:50] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bojx9BDpJks
[15:50] <shadeslayer> no those are fast :P
[15:50]  * apachelogger dances
[15:50] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: did you report the bug?
[15:50]  * shadeslayer prefers vimeo
[15:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what bug?????
[15:50] <apachelogger> it being slow
[15:50] <shadeslayer> LP timing out?
[15:50] <apachelogger> it timing out
[15:50] <shadeslayer> oh..
[15:50] <shadeslayer> discussed on #launchpad
[15:51]  * apachelogger demands br
[15:51] <shadeslayer> they know about it, say that when its number of binaries is huge, it will time out
 shadeslayer: yeah, if there are lots of binaries, and you're including binaries in your copy, it will tend to timeout :/
[15:52] <Riddell> I wonder why that is
[15:52] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I tell you, report a bug
[15:52] <shadeslayer> ok.. 
[15:52]  * shadeslayer attacks soyuz
[15:57] <apachelogger> "Pour pouvoir utiliser Choqok, il vous faut au moins un compte sur l'un des services de microblogage pris en charge."
[15:57] <apachelogger> that is like asking to ask a question
[15:58] <dpm> Riddell, ok, bluedevil (approved) and kdebluetooth (disabled) sorted. Someone on the translators list was mentioning that libdebconf-kde needed approval. What's that and to which source package should it belong?
[16:02] <Riddell> dpm: yes please, it adds debconf support when installing packages in Kubuntu, libdebconf-kde is the source package
[16:03] <Riddell> I wonder if  it needs a re-upload after moving it to main
[16:03] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes it does
[16:04] <apachelogger> we found out in lucid I think, with choqok if memory serves
[16:05] <dpm> Riddell, apachelogger, I'm not sure it needs a re-upload for translations. The template has been imported, so it should be included in language packs already from now on. What usually needs re-uploads are demotions to univers, to undo the stripping of translations
[16:05] <dpm> universe even
[16:05] <dpm> Riddell, ok, approved libdebconf-kde
[16:05] <apachelogger> dpm: well if the templates are in launchpad then it should be fine
[16:05] <apachelogger> but in lucid we had a case where something was promoted but there were no templates around
[16:06] <apachelogger> or maybe the templates were there but the translations not *shurg*
[16:06] <apachelogger> **shrug*
[16:06] <dpm> yeah, I think it should be. I've seen such problems happening when some of the dependencies were still in universe, I think
[16:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: already reported
[16:07] <Riddell> that's why I reuploaded bluedevil, to get the .pot files built
[16:07] <shadeslayer> bug 575450
[16:07] <dpm> hi jjesse, tomorrow is documentation string freeze. Do you know if the Kubuntu Docs templates will be in shape by then?
[16:07] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yes this bug affects me too :P
[16:07] <shadeslayer> hehe :D
[16:08] <shadeslayer> done
[16:09] <Riddell> dpm: I've not heard from jjesse or nixternal about kubuntu docs this cycle so I presume they're staying the same as in 10.04
[16:10] <dpm> Riddell, that's fine, but I want to make sure there will be someone downloading the translations and using them in the package, otherwise it's a considerable waste of effort for translators. jjesse, nixternal, any comments on that?
[16:11] <dpm> If no one can take care of integrating the translations, that's absolutely fine, but I'd like to know soon enough and then I'll disable the templates if necessary
[16:12] <dpm> or I can ask someone from ubuntu-docs to take care of kubuntu-docs
[16:14] <ScottK> Sounds like we need a kdebluetooth upload though.
[16:14] <Riddell> or remove it from the archive
[16:17] <ScottK> I think one cycle in Universe for the one person on the planet (that will happen to use Kubuntu) for which it works better.
[16:21] <Riddell> 16:17 < gkiagia> Riddell: fyi, in debian we plan to remove it and offer transitional k{,de}bluetooth packages from src:bluedevil that install bluedevil
[16:23] <ScottK> I'm OK either way.
[16:23] <Riddell> I'll wait for upstream to answer
[16:23] <Riddell> worrying number of "No"s under "do translations work" https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Translations
[16:24] <dpm> ok, let's start turning those into yeses
[16:25] <Lars_G> This is not the place to ask end user maverik kde questions, is it?
[16:25] <dpm> Riddell, which of those "No"s are most visible?
[16:27] <Riddell> they're all fairly visible
[16:27] <Riddell> agateau: can I assign plasma-widget-message-indicator and plasma-widget-menubar to you?
[16:29] <ScottK> Lars_G: No.  #kubuntu for KDE specifics or #ubuntu+1 for more general maverick questions.
[16:29] <dpm> Riddell, well, but some are more important than others. I can imagine gdebi-kde and apport-kde being lower on the priority list than plasma-widget-*
[16:29] <agateau> Riddell: not sure I get it, am I not assigned to these lp projects already?
[16:29] <ScottK> dpm: Since apport-kde is the thing that lets users report the bugs so we know what to fix, maybe not.
[16:30] <Lars_G> Who's jr?
[16:30] <dpm> ScottK, ah, good point. I was just thinking about the automatic apport popups upon crash, which are disabled after release
[16:30] <ScottK> Lars_G: That's Riddell.
[16:30] <Lars_G> In here i mean. is it jrdnyquist ?
[16:30] <Lars_G> ok
[16:30] <ScottK> Lars_G: Sorry. Different jr.
[16:31] <Riddell> agateau: assign the task of investigating why translations don't work for them
[16:32] <agateau> Riddell: oh, I am quite a translation noob, but I can give it a try
[16:32] <Lars_G> Riddell: I barely used kde on lucid (netbook version), when I upgraded to maverick plasma-netbook segfaulted on me constantly. It solved when I "deleted" (moved really) my ~/.kde, since I see in the wiki you have the lucid->maverick upgrade testing, would you like my whole ~/.kde tarred to see if you can reproduce it and find the offending config/file?
[16:32] <agateau> Riddell: I will probably come back with questions then
[16:32] <dpm> agateau, do you use Kubuntu in French?
[16:33] <agateau> dpm: I do
[16:33] <dpm> agateau, awesome :)
[16:33]  * Riddell is using Kubuntu in French while listening to Yann Tiersen records, all I need is a beret
[16:33] <dpm> :)
[16:34] <agateau> Riddell: :)
[16:34] <Lars_G> Or to switch to Henry Salvador records
[16:34] <Lars_G> Henri, I think...
[16:36] <ScottK> Cigarettes too.  Awful smelling ones.
[16:36] <Lars_G> Riddell: I take that as a no?
[16:38] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: im going insane, look at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/55217823/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.kdepim-runtime_4:4.5~beta3-0ubuntu1~lucid1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[16:41] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you did not copy qt4
[16:41] <shadeslayer> i did... i guess it wasnt published yet
[16:41] <ScottK> agateau: Did you test plasma-widget-menubar and rekonq together?
[16:41]  * ScottK is getting lots of reqkonq freezes and wonders if it's related.
[16:42] <agateau> ScottK: I gave up on rekonq recently :/
[16:42] <agateau> ScottK: try removing the applet and see if it works better
[16:42] <ScottK> Lars_G: Please file a bug and attach the files from ~/.kde/share/config/plasm*
[16:42] <ScottK> Lars_G: Then give me the bug number.
[16:43] <Lars_G> ScottK: Ok I will
[16:43] <ScottK> agateau: You are exhonerated.
[16:44] <agateau> ?
[16:44] <ScottK> agateau: It still froze after I removed the applet.
[16:44] <ScottK> agateau: It would be nice if my existing windows could get their menus back.
[16:44] <Lars_G> ScottK: I don't have the sigfault dump right now..... do I need to try and reproduce it?
[16:45] <agateau> ScottK: it saddens me a lot, but it seems rekonq got worse the moment we decided to go for it :/
[16:45] <agateau> ScottK: yes, it's in my TODO, but not very high right now
[16:46] <ScottK> agateau: OK.
[16:46] <ScottK> Lars_G: It would be best if you could grab them right after it happens.
[16:47] <Lars_G> ScottK: I had one grab in pastebin, I can look for it, but it was done when I didn't have the symbols.
[16:49] <dpm> Riddell, on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Translations, what's the problem with plasma-widget-menubar: "wrong .pot name created, not in language packs " - is that at package level?
[16:54] <Lars_G> Bingo
[16:54] <Riddell> dpm: it makes plasma_applet_application_menu.pot which I thnk is wrong since the widget is now called plasma_applet_menubar, and I can't find plasma_applet_application_menu.po in language-pack-kde-fr
[16:54] <Riddell> so possibly both
[16:54] <Lars_G> ScottK: is this helpfull enough? http://pastebin.com/Nrj5UxSv
[16:54] <Lars_G> or useless without the dbg info?
[16:54] <dpm> Riddell, ah, ok, let me check on LP
[16:55] <Lars_G> ScottK: I do remember that for thread 1 (the one I think crashed) on the last line of the stack trace, the error was in netbook-plasma_dummy.c (or .cpp) line 3
[16:55] <ScottK> Lars_G: Not particularly.  If you can upgrade and get a segfault every time, the config files would be very interesting.
[16:55] <dpm> Riddell, and also, what's wrong with apport-kde? If I run e.g. 'apport-bug konsole' the UI is translated for me (apart from the Cancel button, but I think that should not come from apport)
[16:56] <Riddell> dpm: presumably you're using the GTK UI
[16:56] <Lars_G> ScottK: Ok, I have the dbg installed now, I'll reinstate the old config files (and save my new) and see if I can reproduce
[16:56] <Lars_G> I'll do it when email finishes loading
[16:56] <ScottK> OK.
[16:57] <dpm> Riddell, I'm running it on Kubuntu, so I think I'm running the kde one - I wouln't be testing Kubuntu translations on Ubuntu :-P
[16:58] <Riddell> dpm: try running /usr/share/apport/apport-kde
[17:04] <Riddell> 17:04 < afiestas> Riddell: delete it imho
[17:04] <Riddell> ScottK: goodbye to kbluetooth ^^
[17:05] <shadeslayer> hehe :P
[17:05] <ScottK> Riddell: Great.
[17:07] <dpm> Riddell, both work fine and are the same. The first screenshot is with apport-bug, the second one with /usr/share/apport/apport-kde ->http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/screenshots/
[17:11] <Riddell> dpm: hmm, that's in catalan?
[17:11] <dpm> Riddell, yes
[17:12] <dpm> apart from the Cancel and Close buttons, those are indeed untranslated for some reason
[17:17] <Riddell> dpm: hmm, it doesn't work for me in catalan either while e.g. usb-creator-kde does
[17:19] <dpm> Riddell, I don't know what can be different, mine is an alternate install in Catalan. What are the contents of your LANG and LANGUAGE
[17:19] <dpm> ?
[17:20] <Riddell> dpm: ah ahah
[17:20] <Riddell> LANGUAGE was set to en_GB
[17:20] <Riddell> that helps a lot :)
[17:21] <maco> there's a LANGUAGE var separate from LANG? dang
[17:21] <Riddell> yes, I've no idea why it's needed but it's higher priority
[17:21] <Riddell> says http://www.gnu.org/software/hello/manual/gettext/Locale-Environment-Variables.html
[17:22]  * Riddell wanders out for an hour
[17:22] <dpm> Riddell, it's for setting fallbacks, which LANG does not support
[17:23] <Riddell> so why not just make LANG support them?
[17:23] <dpm> I'm not sure what the rationale for it was. LANGUAGE is a gettext-specific variable
[17:23] <dpm> they've got different syntax too
[17:24] <dpm> and we have a nasty bug in language-selector which can cause them to disagree
[17:24] <dpm> which seems not to be specific to Ubuntu: bug 553162
[17:31] <shadeslayer> heh :   kdepim-runtime: Depends: kdebase-runtime but it is not going to be installed : and kdebase-runtime is in PPA :P
[17:31] <shadeslayer> figure that one out
[18:05] <ScottK> mgraesslin: I've got three Intel 945GME systems here that are ~identical from a video perspective.  With the mesa we are proposing to update to one of the three get effects on first run automatically.  The other two come up with it disabled, but it works nicely (even blur) once enabled.  I asked one of the ubuntu-x folks to look and they are stumped why two should be blacklisted and one not.  Any suggestions on where we should be looking?  
[18:06] <ScottK> Actually I looked again.  It's two 945gme and one 945gml.
[18:06] <mgraesslin> hehe minor differences that matter :-)
[18:07] <mgraesslin> never understood the Intel versioning schema
[18:07] <ScottK> In any case the two gme are both netbooks (one hp and one dell) and so are very similar in display size, etc.
[18:08] <mgraesslin> I have no idea what is causing the disabled compositing at startup - it just started to not work any more from one day to the other
[18:08] <mgraesslin> (not the first time that happened)
[18:08] <mgraesslin> an idea would be to disable functionality checks by default
[18:09] <ScottK> OK.
[18:10] <mgraesslin> I guess there is still the problem of freezes, right?
[18:10] <ScottK> When changing settings.
[18:10] <mgraesslin> I think right now there are only two possible solutions:
[18:11] <mgraesslin> 1. accept the freezes
[18:11] <mgraesslin> 2. enforce indirect rendering and accept the crashers and that blur won't load
[18:11] <mgraesslin> for the second case we also need to patch the source base to ensure that no effect uses FBOs
[18:12] <ScottK> The only freezes I've seen are when changing settings.
[18:12] <ScottK> I think people do that rarely enough that we can live with it and release note it.
[18:12] <ScottK> (since there's a work around)
[18:12] <mgraesslin> and it's an easy one
[18:14] <ScottK> Going the other way seems like it's fairly invasive, would be risky, still doesn't present a full solution, and would reduce the quality of the overall user experience with effects.
[18:16] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ Thoughts?
[18:16] <ScottK> If you're OK with it, I'll get the release note in.
[18:17] <smarter_> JontheEchidna: hey!
[18:35] <shadeslayer> anyone want to see google in klingon ? http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-klingon
[18:35] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ^^
[18:37] <ScottK> klingon seems pretty much the opposite of apachelogger.
[18:41] <shadeslayer> ok so.. launchpad is aginst building kdepim :P
[18:41] <shadeslayer> cant rebuild .. -.-
[18:42] <Riddell> ScottK: so accept the freezes when changing settings you think?
[18:42] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.  You can disable effects, change the setting, and then reenable.
[18:42] <ScottK> Not ideal, but doable as a workaround.
[18:44] <Riddell> I have an Intel GM965/GL960 does that mean I'm affected?
[18:45] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: not really funny... you should get some help
[18:46] <ScottK> Riddell: Probably.
[18:46] <shadeslayer> whut? why? what happened?
[18:46] <ScottK> I reproduced it on one i965 machine.
[18:47] <yofel> my 945GME is affected by that freeze, but pressing shift+alt+f12 get's it out of the freeze so I'm fine with that for now
[18:48] <ScottK> I'll try that.
[18:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: what do you make of   kdepim-runtime: Depends: kdebase-runtime but it is not going to be installed , when kdebase-runtime is in the ppa
[18:48] <Riddell> shadeslayer: you'd need to set up a chroot to find out why it's not being installed
[18:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: it built fine in chroot :(
[18:49] <Riddell> mgraesslin, ScottK: weird bug first is that on opening kwin settings it shows effects in the left selection but the dialogue actually shows window border theme http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/kwin-settings.png
[18:50] <mgraesslin> Riddell: it's a regression in kcmshell4 from 4.5.0 to 4.5.1
[18:51] <mgraesslin> oh and the Oxygen Aurorae theme looks really broken
[18:53] <Riddell> effects were working fine until I tried to enable "Sheet", then freeze
[18:54] <ScottK> http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/effects.png is what mine looks like.
[18:55] <Riddell> ScottK: I'm loading it not in system settings, right click on window border Configure Window Behaviour
[18:55] <ScottK> Ah.
[18:56] <ScottK> yofel: My lockup must be superior to yours because it didn't yield to shift-alt-f12.
[18:57] <ScottK> ;-)
[18:57] <ScottK> Riddell: If you're experimenting, you probably want the newer mesa from sarvatt/mesa ppa.
[18:57] <yofel> :(
[18:57] <Riddell> ScottK: what does that change?
[18:58] <ScottK> Riddell: Fewer bugs.
[19:01] <ScottK> Riddell: Details in Bug #631413
[19:03] <Riddell> alt-shift-f12 seems to get round the freeze
[19:03] <mgraesslin> yep
[19:03] <Riddell> so yeah, I guess we can release with that with a big fat release note
[19:03] <ScottK> Didn't for me, but Dell mini 10v and control keys are weird.
[19:04] <mgraesslin> if we would have known that at the time of 4.5.0 we would have put it into the release note probably as well
[19:04] <ScottK> OK.  Release note it is.
[19:10] <DarkwingDuck> I'll be reviewing everything for docs before Friday for the doc freeze on sat
[19:12] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MaverickReleaseSchedule says DocumentationStringFreeze tomorrow
[19:13] <ScottK> Riddell: Bug #633406
[19:14] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: Gah. Ok, I'll do it tonight then LOL I miss read something somewhere
[19:15]  * DarkwingDuck hates moving
[19:15] <Riddell> ScottK: the release note doesn't mention what video cards it happens on, it's not all is it?
[19:15] <Riddell> thanks DarkwingDuck.  then we need to hassle nixternal into packaging it
[19:15] <ScottK> Riddell: In the upstream bug it seemed to be a variety.
[19:16] <Riddell> ScottK: ug
[19:16] <ScottK> I figure if we narrow it down, we can make the words more specific.
[19:16] <ScottK> mgraesslin: Do you have the settings change freeze on your nvidia?
[19:17] <mgraesslin> definately not on fglrx
[19:17] <Sput> mgraesslin: with the .drirc that was posted here earlier today, effects work mostly smooth on my intel as well \o/
[19:17] <mgraesslin> just tried it
[19:17] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ OK.  Not everything.
[19:18] <ScottK> Please edit away.
[19:18] <ScottK> mgraesslin: Note that Sput runs Gentoo, so that's not distro specific.
[19:18] <mgraesslin> I think I was able to trigger it once with NVIDIA, but in general I change settings rather often
[19:18] <mgraesslin> yeah I know that it isn't distro specific
[19:18] <Sput> ah yes, Gentoo and X11 from git master
[19:18] <ScottK> Right, but it's always nice to be able to point to evidence.
[19:18] <Sput> (plus mesa, intel driver, intel-drm-next kernel)
[19:19] <ScottK> Sput: I hear intel-drm-next-kernel is no longer being updated.
[19:19] <Sput> ScottK: oh, that would explain why it hasn't gotten many updates lately
[19:19] <Sput> it's on 2.6.36-rc2 though
[19:19] <ScottK> Yup.  You might want to pick a different something to follow.
[19:19] <Sput> ScottK: got a suggestion?
[19:20]  * ScottK uses production stuff from binary distros.  Not a good recommendation source for you.
[19:20] <Sput> ScottK: could have been that the same source telling you abour intel-drm-next had also an alternative :)
[19:21] <ScottK> Sput: mainline kernel was all that was mentioned.
[19:21] <Sput> ScottK: ok, thx. will monitor things then
[19:44] <ScottK> If someone will package and test http://savago.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/libgcal-0-9-6-plus-akonadi-resources-1-2/ I'll be glad to approve the FFe.
[19:44] <lex79> I'm doing
[19:45] <ScottK> Excellent.
[19:45] <Riddell> hmm, I'm getting refresh errors with effects turned on
[19:46] <ScottK> Riddell: New mesa from the PPA or the old one in the archive?
[19:47] <Riddell> oh good point, the dist upgrade is still running
[19:54] <yofel> now this doesn't make sense: in the file transfer notification, if I press 'More' the windows gets *smaller* and I get a scroll bar...
[19:54] <yofel> 4.5
[19:55] <yofel> if one would switch the window sizes they would fit perfectly
[19:56] <shadeslayer> can someone also look at kdepim 4.5 beta 3 in experimental? runtime builds fine, kdepim doesnt... says cant find kdebase-runtime, whereas kdebase-runtime is there
[19:56] <shadeslayer> ( id wait for the amd64 package to build tho )
[19:57] <shadeslayer> cya tmmrw.. off to sleep 
[19:57] <Riddell> night shadeslayer 
[20:00] <lex79> ScottK: bug 633434 633442
[20:01] <lex79> uhm
[20:01] <lex79> bug 633434
[20:01] <lex79> bug 633442
[20:02] <ScottK> Looking
[20:04] <Riddell> persia: well your koffice comile fix worked, only to find another qreal issue further on 
[20:13] <lex79> ScottK: also bug 633453
[20:14] <ScottK> lex79: You tested this one?
[20:14] <ScottK> (attica's in Main, so I'm going to ask more questions)
[20:15] <Riddell> that should go into experimental PPA
[20:15] <lex79> don't consider it for now, I'm testing
[20:15] <ScottK> OK.
[20:21] <rgreening> apachelogger: hey. how goes the ubuntuone and music store etc... any chance on amarok integration?
[20:21] <Riddell> rgreening: ssh
[20:21] <rgreening> ?
[20:23] <Riddell> rgreening: he got grumpy when they changed the authentication mechanism underneith him for the second time
[20:23] <rgreening> oh
[20:24] <Riddell> rgreening: although it does just need someone to add kwallet support, fancy a crack?
[20:24]  * rgreening feels bad for him
[20:25] <rgreening> Riddell: hmm... I can give it a go. Any pointers or docs & sample I can work from?
[20:25] <Riddell> rgreening: you'd need to sign the dreaded contributor agreement, then ask apachelogger 
[20:25] <Riddell> ubuntu-sso is the package I think
[20:26] <Riddell> needs the gnome keyring bits swapped to also work with kwallet
[20:26] <rgreening> Riddell: is that package open or closed atm? I assume closed
[20:26] <Riddell> how do you mean?  it's all free software
[20:26] <ScottK> rgreening: It's open.
[20:26] <rgreening> then why would one need to sign a contributor agreement?
[20:26] <ScottK> Riddell: Why does it need the contributor agreement signed?  Lack of it doesn't block an upload to the archive?
[20:27] <Riddell> you have to transfer copyright to canonical
[20:27] <ScottK> Riddell: Does the license say that?
[20:27] <Riddell> ScottK: to get the code upstream it needs to be signed, and if you just upload to the archive anyway, next time an upload happens it'll use the source from upstream without the patch I guess
[20:28] <ScottK> That would be unfriendly of the uploader.
[20:29] <ScottK> I can see it would be preferable that distro changes go upstream, but I don't know that it's essential.
[20:29] <ScottK> Policy that's above your paygrade, I know.
[20:29] <Riddell> hi apparle, what's your rekonq SRU bug number again?
[20:30] <apparle> Riddell: 602141
[20:30] <apparle> Riddell: although I know think, that bug should better be fixed in qtwebkit
[20:30] <apparle> *now
[20:31] <Riddell> apparle: I don't know if there's a simple patch to fix it though
[20:31] <Riddell> and SRUs need to be simple patches
[20:32] <apparle> Riddell: The same code should do tha same job..... I found this for debian http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-kde/qt4-x11.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a35ead46af248ecb37573dcec90e8ea87dde80e
[20:33] <Riddell> apparle: ok, do you want to do a debdiff for that instead?
[20:34] <Riddell> I warn you Qt takes an age to build, even a source build
[20:35] <apparle> Riddell: wouldn't just building qtwebkit do? or even that takes ages?
[20:37] <apparle> ?
[20:46] <debfx> apparle: qtwebkit is built from qt4-x11 in lucid
[20:46] <apparle> debfx: so?
[20:47] <Riddell> so to test the fix you have to build the whole package
[20:47] <Riddell> it's not easy to build only part of the package anyway with Qt
[20:50] <apparle> Riddell: what would be the approximate build time... how many hours
[20:50] <apparle> for an Pentium D 2.8GHz
[20:51] <lex79> with that cpu maybe 2
[20:52] <apparle> Riddell: then don't SRU rekonq yet. I will tell you in a day or two whether I can manage qtwebkit patch
[20:54] <Riddell> let us know if you need any help apparle 
[20:54] <apparle> :)
[20:54] <apparle> I will surely need it
[21:17] <Riddell> hmm, our loading gettext translations from .desktop files patch doesn't work for notifyrc files
[21:17] <Riddell> so kubuntu-notification-helper needs the translations merged back in if it's to be translated
[21:40] <Riddell> Nightrose: when is amarok releasing again?
[21:40] <Nightrose> Riddell: supposedly this weekend but atm it doesn't look like we'll make it 
[21:40] <Nightrose> i hope we can still tag this week
[21:43] <Riddell> Nightrose: ok, our freeze is Thursday (a week tomorrow) so before then would be lovely :)
[21:43] <Nightrose> Riddell: ok i'll send an email
[22:33] <persia> Riddell, Is there a build log for the next failure?  I'll try to sort things to complete a full build anyway, and make a richer patch (but wouldn't mind hints in the forms of more logs)
[22:40]  * ScottK hands Riddell some plasters for the #kde-devel translation wounds and heads out.
[22:43] <Riddell> persia: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-arm-dev/+archive/ppa/+build/1951315/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-armel.koffice_1%3A2.2.2-0ubuntu2%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[22:43] <Riddell> if you have access
[22:43] <Riddell> ScottK: you try to work with upstream and they don't want you...
[22:43] <Riddell> dantti_work: can I put the "Edit Software Sources" string into kpackagekit at least?
[22:44] <dantti_work> Riddell:  I was thinking the best would be for I to put that button and provide a configure option like repo_config_cmd_line
[22:45] <dantti_work> Riddell: so at build time if you set that I'll display the button.
[22:46] <persia> Riddell, Thanks.  I can't see that directly, but I can work with it.
[22:46] <Riddell> dantti_work: yes that would be good
[22:47] <Riddell> persia: how will you work with it if you can't see it?
[22:48] <Riddell> persia: http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/koffice.txt.gz
[22:49] <persia> My usual technique is to try to replicate things, and then ask someone in /+members (and there's almost always at least one person awake) to verify I had the same issue.  Extra pastes speed things :)
[22:49] <persia> Thanks.
[23:26] <apachelogger> brrr
[23:26] <apachelogger> it is like super cold in graz
[23:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: how is klingon the opposite of me?
[23:27] <apachelogger> rgreening: music store was outside my scope but actually upstream was interested in giving this a shot ... that is if they got to make money with it, not particularly interested in feeding canonical
[23:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: you're not really the warrior type
[23:27] <apachelogger> oh
[23:27] <apachelogger> ^^
[23:29] <apachelogger> hm
[23:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that russian dude is serously weid
[23:30] <apachelogger> *weird
[23:30] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[23:30] <apachelogger> why did he mark the release notes as affected by bug 551539
[23:30] <apachelogger> without comment even
[23:30] <JontheEchidna> shrug
[23:30] <JontheEchidna> he also doesn't seem to get that we do not track upstream bugs in launchpad
[23:31] <apachelogger> ^^
[23:31] <apachelogger> uhhh
[23:31] <apachelogger> novell launches suse gallery
[23:31] <apachelogger> An innovative go-to-market approach for ISVs to share, publish, and promote software appliances
[23:31] <lex79> where?
[23:31] <apachelogger> I have no idea what that means
[23:31] <apachelogger> does it mean something?
[23:31] <apachelogger> http://susegallery.com/
[23:33] <lex79> you can win 10000$
[23:33]  * apachelogger could apply for job in opensuse boosters team and do boosting :P
[23:34] <Riddell> hmm, what is that website? I can't work it out
[23:34]  * apachelogger is behind on his reader reading again
[23:34] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think it is just hyping for susestudio
[23:34] <apachelogger> showcasing awesome things created with it
[23:35] <apachelogger> ah, api.kde.org now has qch file
[23:35] <apachelogger> jolly nice
[23:43] <yofel> is it just me or does virtuoso have a memory leak? (or any other explenation for it using 825MiB of memory?)
[23:43] <yofel>  4562 yofel     20   0  910m 825m 4460 S    0 10.7   3:20.10 virtuoso-t