fR_Can someone explain the plan for networking+appmenu? Is the plan to only support connman and not network-manager? The wiki/launchpad is unclear about this.01:26
fR_sorry, s/appmenu/indicator/01:28
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ScottKfR_: I think in the long run that's true, but for now they are just focused on conman on netbooks.04:43
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JanCBorchardtandreasn, sorry I wasn’t at the meeting today again :( this time I just forgot it15:09
andreasnI did too :/15:09
JanCBorchardtdo you know if there’s a log?15:09
JanCBorchardtmpt, were you at the Ayatana-UX meeting today?15:10
mptJanC, I was 5 minutes late, and no-one else was there15:12
mptSo, we all suck :-)15:12
godbykmpt: I was there.. but no one said anything. I didn't want to break the silence. :-)15:21
mptWell, in that sense vish was there too :-)15:21
godbykI know thorwil was conscious, too.15:22
JanCBorchardtmpt, godbyk, good, at least the suckage is distributed evenly :-)15:28
godbykJanCBorchardt: Absolutely. :)15:32
vishmpt: why you dragging me into the "suckers gang"? ;p   no one else knew i was logged on the channel .. strength in numbers, eh? ;)15:59
vishgah! , i still have an incomplete mail for JanCBorchardt regarding the device handling..16:00
godbykvish: Anytime we can blame you (or at least implicate you, we'll do it. :)16:00
mptYou can lurk but you can't hide16:00
JanCBorchardtvish, oh, totally forgot to poke you on that one ;)16:00
godbyk(The missing closing parenthesis in my last sentence is bothering me, but I can't easily fix it now.  So I'll just use two at the end of this one and have poor nesting instead.))16:01
godbyk(At least there are no syntax errors now.. just semantic ones.)16:01
* godbyk is up past his bedtime. Can you tell?16:01
JanCBorchardt_godbyk, well, did you miss one or did you not? http://xkcd.com/541/16:02
godbykJanCBorchardt: I'm firmly in the camp that disallows overloading of the emoticon parenthesis.16:04
JanCBorchardt_godbyk, I’m tending towards the overloading, except when emoticons are converted16:06
godbykJanCBorchardt_: The only case of acceptable punctuation overloading that comes to mind is when a sentence ends in an abbreviation.16:07
godbykThere are probably others, but my brain's already shutting down. :)16:07
JanCBorchardt_godbyk, yea, I agree with the abbreviation one but can’t think of other examples either. :)16:08
Cimikenvandine: ping16:10
CimiMacSlow: ping too16:10
MacSlowCimi, what's up?16:10
godbykJanCBorchardt_: And with that, I'm off to bed. Ta!16:10
CimiMacSlow: you're always the fastest :)16:10
kenvandineCimi, pong16:11
CimiMacSlow: could ypu write a small patch to compiz with the two settings we need? (or teach me how to patch debian packages)16:11
JanCBorchardt_godbyk, good night!16:11
Cimikenvandine: could you take the snapshot of the two themes and make a package?16:11
MacSlowCimi, not this week... got some nasty bugs to kill still16:12
Cimikenvandine: first let me remove the -maverick-beta tag16:12
MacSlowCimi, what do you need?16:12
CimiMacSlow: move the shadow 5 px down16:12
Cimiand disable transparency of gwd for inactive windows16:12
CimiI want those ad the new default settins16:13
Cimidamn typos16:13
MacSlowCimi, the shadow issue is a setting for the xml of the decoration plugin... distro-patch16:13
MacSlowCimi, the transparency thing... I don't know by heart16:14
Cimithey are both a tweak to the default_Settings.diff patch applied to the compiz package16:14
kenvandineCimi, i remove that all ready...16:14
kenvandineCimi, can you rebase your changes on trunk?16:15
Cimikenvandine: easier16:16
CimiI have redone all the themes16:16
Cimiyou can just grab the folders16:16
Cimilater I will merge master16:16
Cimior let me try merging :)16:17
kenvandinemerging would be easier :)16:17
kenvandinefor me anyway16:17
kenvandineCimi, your branch should be based on trunk anyway, but right now it is a unrelated branch16:18
Cimibzr: ERROR: Branches have no common ancestor, and no merge base revision was specified.16:18
Cimiwow :D16:18
kenvandineso it is a manual merge16:18
kenvandineyeah... you created a new branch16:18
Cimiplease merge it16:18
kenvandinei had to do it all manually last time16:18
kenvandinewas a pain16:18
Cimithen I will branch master again16:18
Cimior let me branch master16:18
Cimican I upload directly to trunk?16:19
kenvandineit shouldn't be too bad this time... last time i had to figure out what files to remove and all16:19
kenvandineCimi, not sure if you can... but you can just push your own branch based on trunk16:19
kenvandinethen i can merge16:19
kenvandineCimi, thx16:29
Cimikenvandine: do you know how I can make debian patches?16:31
kenvandinedebdiff old.dsc new.dsc16:32
Cimikenvandine: I mean the patches inside debian/patches16:36
kenvandineCimi, oh, there are tons of ways16:36
kenvandinei usually use bzr16:36
Cimikenvandine: I need to patch compiz16:38
Cimikenvandine: compiz already has a .diff for default settings16:38
Cimikenvandine: I need to tweak few settings16:38
kenvandineyou can probably use editpatch16:39
Cimikenvandine: how do I update the patch?16:39
kenvandinecheckout the source and run16:39
kenvandineeditpatch debian/patches/thepatchname.patch16:39
kenvandinethat should extract the sources and apply all the patches leading up to that one16:40
kenvandinethen you can edit the files you want16:40
kenvandineeditpatch is in the ubuntu-dev-tools package16:40
kenvandineactually it is edit-patch16:41
kenvandineand the man page explains it pretty well16:41
davidbarthCimi: ping? emergency for ronoc, can you help him and list the style properties to use for the sound menu buttons16:43
Cimidavidbarth: ok16:44
Cimironoc: here I am16:44
ronocCimi, hi , finally getting around to applying the gtk colours to the transport bar16:45
ronocCimi,  you had a branch didn 't you ?16:46
Cimiyeah, was working, isn't it?16:46
ronocCimi, i'll check it out now thx16:47
davidbarthCimi: sweet16:52
Cimikenvandine: ok editpatch worked17:02
Cimibut I have another file under /debian17:03
Ciminow what can I do to send you the right package?17:03
Cimikenvandine: can I send you the tarball?17:04
kenvandinea debdiff or a bzr branch17:06
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Cimironoc: is it ok for you if I go out now or you need help?17:16
ronocCimi: I'm sure its fine, will merge now, go ahead, speak soon17:16
Cimiok cool17:17
vishhmm, the Nautilus "Go" in the unity topbar, seems less spaced than the nautilus one..17:30
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meebeykenvandine, tedg: is one of you around? jcastro told me a libindicate release is pending and that needs a simple but important fix in the pkg-config file20:27
meebeythe path used in it is simply incorrect20:27
tedgmeebey, Oh, okay.  I've already done the tarball, but I don't think that kenvandine has done the package yet.20:28
tedgmeebey, Is there a bug?20:28
meebeyno, this is brandnew, hold one a second20:28
tedgmeebey, which path?20:31
meebeythey patch looks like this: http://groups.google.com/group/foresight-linux-commits/browse_thread/thread/e8befdd266686fc920:32
meebeyI am not sure its 100% right though20:32
meebeyas the lib gets installed into /usr/lib/indicate-sharp-1.0/20:32
* kenvandine chuckles over where the patch is coming from :)20:33
meebeykenvandine: I was able to make them packaging indicators ;)20:34
meebeykenvandine: as smuxi 0.8 supports it20:35
jcastrolegendary man20:35
* tedg is a little confused on how to read that patch20:35
meebeywill see if I can get other distros to also package it20:35
tedgIs someone hand writing diffs in python?  For reals?20:35
meebeytedg: just take a look at the path in the source, its not matching where the files get installed into20:36
kenvandinetedg, yeah... it is like a sed20:38
kenvandinebut in a very controlled manor20:38
tedgmeebey, Here's the files I have http://pastebin.com/zAaDKCTj20:40
tedgmeebey, They seem to match to me.20:40
meebeytedg: package install != make install20:40
meebeytedg: its an accident that it works for debian and ubuntu20:41
meebeytedg: because they expect the file in that location by policy20:41
meebeybut that is not working for any other distro20:41
meebey /usr/lib/cli/indicate-sharp-1.0/ is "hardcoded" in the libindicate0.1-cil.install file20:42
meebeymake install is putting the libs into /usr/lib/indicate-sharp-1.0/ though20:43
meebeyand the installed pkg-config file, of make install says the libs are in /usr/lib/cli/indicate-sharp-1.0/20:43
tedgSo make install should put them in /usr/lib/cli/indicate-sharp-0.1 ?20:43
meebeyI would say no, that location is debubutu specific20:45
* tedg hates mono bindings and can't wait for them to support introspection so he can ignore them again.20:45
meebeytedg: good that I am not hating them else there would be no support for indicators and smuxi, nor would foresight package it20:46
meebeyand nor would I report this issue20:46
meebeyand really this has nothing to do at all with mono bindings, this is standard linux automake and pkg-config20:46
tedgHeh, it's just that we seem to continually have these issues with them.  There needs to be some standard automake rules made for them.20:47
tedgWe have a lot of crap in that Makefile.am -- I fear it's fragile.  No, really, I'm fairly certain it's fragile.20:47
meebeyso just say automake sucks and we all agree :)20:48
meebeythe easiest fix here is not list the lib files as "install files" pkglib_files or what the name is20:48
meebeybecause the gacutil -i command already installs the libs into /usr/lib/mono/indicate-sharp/20:49
meebeyand thats the path the pkg-config file should reference20:49
meebeywell or indicate-sharp-1.0 if prefered20:49
tedgSo then why does debian put them in /usr/lib/cli ?20:49
tedghyperair ^20:49
meebeytedg: because this is a packaging policy20:50
tedgIt seems in theory it should be not mono specific if another C# bytecode parser was created, no?20:50
hyperairoh hey meebey20:50
meebeytedg: ok, I agree on that part20:50
meebeytedg: use /usr/lib/indicate-sharp-1.0/ for the pc file then20:51
meebeytedg: so its not mono specific20:51
meebeyhyperair: hiya :)20:51
hyperairtedg: so why did you ping me?20:51
tedghyperair, Because I believe you're the last one that played with these paths, and I want to make sure to not break the changes you made.20:52
hyperairwell, let's just say meebey is much more knowledgable than me in this matter and that anything he says, you should follow20:52
meebeywut? I only wrote that policy...20:54
meebeybut this has nothing to do with upstream work20:54
meebeythe usual solution to ship CLI libraries is to use /usr/lib/$package20:54
meebeyand then gacutil -i to install it into the GAC of the runtime (say Mono) which it already does20:55
meebeybut the pkg-config file is not matching use that libdir path20:55
tedgmeebey, So, http://pastebin.com/jNDxPVws20:56
meebeytedg: yep, that looks correct to me20:57
tedgThen we need to distro patch it back to */cli/* ?20:57
meebeythis might feel schizophrenic to you, but only because you are upstream _and_ downstream20:59
meebeytedg: the policy that requires this can be found here btw: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-packaging.html#s-file-locations20:59
meebeytedg: that policy is needed for ABI/API versioning and CLI runtime neutral library packaging21:00
Cimikenvandine: any update?21:07
kenvandineCimi, no, iain isn't around and we would still need to get someone from the release team to approve the exception21:08
kenvandineCimi, do you want to file a UIF exception bug explaining the changes?21:08
Cimiivanka could help or it's not her fault?21:08
kenvandineanyone that understands the changes and can justify it, sure21:09
kenvandineso we can convince the release team to approve it21:09
CimiI can explain the change easily ;)21:09
kenvandineCimi, ok, please file the bug21:10
kenvandineactually 2 bugs, one for compiz and one for light-themes21:10
Cimiwhich one for light themes?21:10
Cimiabout what?21:10
kenvandinethe update to the theme21:10
Cimiyeah but why? davidbarth told me we could continue improving the theme in these days21:10
kenvandinehummm... not supposed to be after UIF21:11
kenvandineCimi, i am not saying it won't get approved.. but we need to follow the process21:11
Cimiyeah I know how the process works as I worked for gnome too21:12
kenvandineCimi, do you know if one of the UIF bugs davidbarth filed already covers the theme changes?21:12
kenvandinedavidbarth, ^^21:12
davidbarthi don't have an exception registered for the theme, no21:13
davidbarthsee at the top of the page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus21:13
kenvandineah, right21:13
kenvandinethat's where the list is :)21:13
kenvandinei was just looking for that :)21:14
davidbarthhappy to add one, but design needs to document the changes and make the case for them21:14
kenvandineso Cimi file the bugs for those and give me the bug numbers21:14
davidbarthCimi: ^^ see with chaotic tomorrow21:14
kenvandinedavidbarth, yeah, i was going to talk to iain about it, thought he was the best one to wrangle that sort of stuff21:15
kenvandinebut he hasn't been around21:15
Cimicompiz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/63441721:15
ubot5`Launchpad bug 634417 in compiz (Ubuntu) "tweaks to compiz for maverick (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]21:15
davidbarthCimi or kenvandine can you add a bug on ayatana-design and 'also affect'ing ayatana-ubuntu, and milestone that for 10.10 to put it on my radar21:16
kenvandinei will21:16
davidbarthor mail me the bug number to put it at the top of my list for tomorrow morning21:16
davidbarthgood night21:16
kenvandinegood night davidbarth21:16
Cimilight-themes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/63442221:17
ubot5`Launchpad bug 634422 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "tweaks to light-themes for maverick (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]21:17
Cimiwe will fix other stuff in the next days btw21:19
Ciminext week otto will update the buttons21:19
Cimiin the window decorations21:19
Cimiother than that, it's all bugfixes21:19
tedgCimi, He should really get the UIF exception before spending the time on it -- seems like one likely to be rejected.21:20
Cimitedg: window decorations?21:21
tedgCimi, Yes.  It's after UI Freeze and it's probably not going to be a usability issue.21:21
Cimijust appearance21:22
tedgThen it'll probably be rejected.21:22
Cimikenvandine: but you could update murrine, murrine contains only fixes21:23
kenvandinebug fixes are fine21:23
kenvandinebut we need to be careful about features or UI changes21:23
CimiI will make a release next week maybe21:24
Cimiso to avoid taking code from git21:24
ivankatedg: hi21:24
tedgivanka, Evening21:25
ivankatedg: I just forwarded you an icon bug I spotted this morning21:25
Cimigood evening ivanka ;)21:25
ivankatedg: while you were away kenvandine fixed an icon naming thing for us that was causing problems with empathy, am hoping this is the same sort of problem which will make it easy to fix!21:26
tedgivanka, I'd guess that we don't have a -panel icon for that?21:26
ivankatedg: we have one in lucid21:26
tedgivanka, That's in network-manager, so it's not done with the standard indicator framework, it's all custom.21:26
ivankatedg: so, who fixes it, you or kalle?21:27
ivankacimi: hi21:27
tedgivanka, Neither really, we don't have anyone in charge of network manager.  It'd probably be someone on the desktop team really.21:28
ivankatedg: OK. Would it be possible for you at least to help me identify whether it is icon naming or code that needs to be changed?21:30
tedgivanka, Yes.  Looking.21:30
ivankatedg: thanks21:30
tedgivanka, I'm guessing it's some sort of compositing code.. there is a bunch of icons in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps that are nm-tech-*png that have those little yellow letters on them.21:32
tedgivanka, Do you remember what it looked like in Lucid?21:32
ivankatedg: it was a monochrome icon with no little yellow thing :-) part of the ubuntu-mono set21:32
ivankaDanRabbit: hi. tedg and I have just been talking about that icon21:36
vishivanka: tedg: thats a new change in nm maverick.. they wanted to include the netwerk type too21:36
ivankaDanRabbit: ^21:36
DanRabbitivanka: hi21:36
vishivanka: they are overlaying 3icons there.. one is from ubuntu-mono , the other two are from upstream.21:37
ivankavish: please make them go away :-)21:37
DanRabbitivanka: I'm not sure it's a good idea to simply have some kind of overlay on the regular wireless icon. We did have a very clear cell tower metaphor before that would be more appropriate to overlay upon.21:38
tedgivanka, So it looks like the ones that are in hicolor but not in mono are: nm-wwan-tower, nm-tech-3g, nm-tech-cdma-1x, nm-tech-edge, nm-tech-evdo, nm-tech-gprs, nm-tech-hspa ,nm-tech-umts, and nm-mb-roam21:38
tedgDanRabbit, If we so decided, we could just put blank images there.  But I think icons with those names need to be in the theme.21:38
vishivanka: DanRabbit:  what we can do is for the tower icon , just use a blank image.. for the yellow "U" , we can do a monochrome one .. or we we dont want it , we use blank images..21:38
vish*if we21:39
vishah tedg :)21:39
ivankavish: DanRabbit: let's go for the blank images if that is the quickest solution21:39
DanRabbityes it would be. But with that approach we would lose the ability to see signal strength I think. just as a warning21:39
DanRabbitivanka: also, it still looks like the icon in the menu and the panel is different21:40
vishDanRabbit: the signal strength icons are different ones..21:40
ivankawhat is in the menu should be used in the panel21:40
ivankaor vice versa21:40
vishDanRabbit: let me get you a screenshot of the maverick set ...21:40
DanRabbitvish: is there someone I can pull the icons from?21:41
DanRabbitI'm having problems installing maverick :( it doesn't want to boot.21:41
vishDanRabbit: download the nm maverick source from lp.. its only in 22px icon size21:41
ivankaDanRabbit: I have that problem - I use the 3rd option on the boot menu :-)21:41
vishDanRabbit: network-manager-gnome 0.81 has those icons..21:43
DanRabbitivanka: I don't even get a boot menu :p21:43
vishDanRabbit: mark is doing that on purpose! forcing people to not use apple? ;)21:43
vishi mean from*21:44
vishDanRabbit: buy dell ;)21:44
DanRabbitlet's not21:44
DanRabbitbranching now21:45
vishivanka: DanRabbit: your offenders > http://imagebin.ca/popup/5uZ-zs.html21:47
DanRabbitvish: re-reading the stuff, I was thinking what you were saying backwards :p21:48
vishDanRabbit: so its overlaying 3 icons there  :/21:48
DanRabbitwell okay so let's commit some blank 22px icons for now21:49
DanRabbitthen we can do the actual icons21:49
vishDanRabbit: we can just commit the U/E ones without the yellow.. for two themes..21:49
vishno need to the tower though..21:49
DanRabbittedg: okay, I'm pushing some blank icons to ubuntu-mono in launchpad.22:04
Cimiivanka: I've written a draft on the design blog for a blogpost we will publish tomorrow (maybe)22:07
Cimiso tired, going to bed :(22:10
tjaaltontedg: hey, I was told you'd be the one to maybe have a clue about the "indicator-applet crashes on login" -bugs?22:12
=== DanRabbit is now known as DanRabbit|afk
ivankacimi: go rest!22:13
ivankacimi: speak tomorrow22:13
Cimigoodnight tedg kenvandine DanRabbit|afk ivanka22:14
tedgtjaalton, Perhaps, though some of them are pretty weird :)22:14
kenvandinegood night Cimi!22:14
tjaaltontedg: yeah, and hard to reproduce22:14
tjaaltontedg: but a 'killall gnome-panel' has always restored it properly22:15
tedgtjaalton, Exactly.  I'm thinking it has to be some sort of bonobo activation issue.22:15
tedgtjaalton, Not sure why it happens sometimes and not others.22:16
tjaaltontedg: a couple of days ago I was told that it happened every time when you opened a second session, when the $HOME is on NFS. but I can't reproduce that either, every time22:16
* tedg will be happy when Bonobo dies22:16
tjaaltontedg: is there a way to trace it somehow? I could add something to the login scripts to help in tracking it down22:17
tjaaltonwe have ~180 workstations migrated to lucid, so it happens every day for someone :)22:17
tjaaltonand lots of students logging in and out22:18
tedgtjaalton, Uhm... I don't know.  Could you install the debug packages so that you could catch backtraces?22:19
tjaaltontedg: sure22:19
tedgtjaalton, I'm not sure that apport works on stable releases.22:19
tjaaltonI doubt it, and the users wouldn't know what to do with the popup anyway22:19
tjaaltonbut it should be possible to turn it on22:20
tedgtjaalton, Yeah, I'm not sure how to filter it so that you don't get the dialog for everything that crashes :)22:20
tjaaltontedg: indeed. I might poke pitti about it22:21
tedgtjaalton, You could just upgrade everyone to Unity ;)22:21
tjaaltontedg: that would be harsh :)22:22
tedgI'm sure that it doesn't have any bugs.22:22
OmegaHey ayatana guys.22:26
OmegaHave any of you looked into tiling window managers?22:26
tedgmeebey, https://launchpad.net/libindicate/0.4/0.4.322:31
meebeytedg: thanks a bunch22:31

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