| bac | lifeless, thumper, rockstar, mwhudson, StevenK: ping | 01:00 |
|---|---|---|
| bac | #startmeeting | 01:00 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is bac. | 01:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 01:00 |
| thumper | here | 01:00 |
| * rockstar | 01:00 | |
| bac | hi guys | 01:00 |
| lifeless | hi | 01:01 |
| bac | thumper: did you see that article about the dunedin psycho murderer? | 01:01 |
| lifeless | only here vaguely | 01:01 |
| thumper | bac: ah... no | 01:01 |
| thumper | when? | 01:01 |
| bac | it's in the New Yorker magazin | 01:01 |
| bac | i threw a link up on FB | 01:01 |
| mwhudson | hi | 01:02 |
| bac | [topic] agenda | 01:02 |
| MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 01:02 |
| bac | * Roll call | 01:02 |
| bac | * Agenda | 01:02 |
| bac | * Outstanding actions | 01:02 |
| bac | * New topics | 01:02 |
| bac | * Mentat update. | 01:02 |
| bac | * Some of the UI reviewers have graduated, but ReviewerSchedule indicates that no one has graduated. Same for UI/Reviews, which still lists people who've left the team. | 01:02 |
| bac | * https://dev.launchpad.net/ArchitectureGuide as per the epic - will reviewers please start discussing the values and metrics during reviews? | 01:02 |
| bac | * Assertion errors and the webservice (gary) | 01:02 |
| bac | * Peanut gallery | 01:02 |
| bac | i guess we're all here but steven | 01:02 |
| bac | [topic] mentat update | 01:03 |
| MootBot | New Topic: mentat update | 01:03 |
| bac | thumper: has steven been getting any more reviews? | 01:03 |
| thumper | not that I've noticed | 01:03 |
| thumper | but it has been week 3 | 01:03 |
| bac | i made an appeal to the AMEU people to direct some towards him if they weren't pressed for time | 01:03 |
| * thumper nods | 01:03 | |
| bac | we'll see if that happens. i'm not optimistic it will. | 01:03 |
| thumper | heh | 01:04 |
| thumper | everything is urgent | 01:04 |
| bac | especially with team leads breathing down your neck to move those kanban cards... | 01:04 |
| bac | thumper: well, do what you can... | 01:04 |
| bac | i mentioned lifeless had thoughts about changing the metric for branch size. i only meant to introduce it but the idea generated lots of reaction | 01:05 |
| bac | so, lifeless, i apologize for not getting up with you last week to form a proposal as we agreed. | 01:05 |
| rockstar | bac, what kinds of reactions? | 01:06 |
| * rockstar COULD read the backchat, but is lazy. | 01:06 | |
| bac | "too vague", "not a metric" | 01:07 |
| bac | nothing terribly hostile | 01:07 |
| rockstar | bac, the backchat indicates no interest in change at all, which is disheartening to me. | 01:08 |
| bac | i tried to introduce robert's idea: https://dev.launchpad.net/ArchitectureGuide as per the epic - will reviewers please start discussing the values and metrics during reviews? | 01:08 |
| bac | rockstar: well, it was not presented properly and i think there were just some knee jerk reactions | 01:08 |
| rockstar | bac, okay. | 01:08 |
| * bac hopes he didn't poison the well | 01:08 | |
| rockstar | bac, as for me and my house, I will keep my diffs small. | 01:09 |
| bac | lifeless: i think we'll need an email about what you'd like to see wrt the ArchitectureGuide | 01:09 |
| rockstar | :) | 01:09 |
| bac | rockstar: your wife starting to hack launchpad? | 01:09 |
| thumper | bac: no, that is choco | 01:10 |
| bac | finally gary raised a point about assertion errors and the API | 01:10 |
| thumper | he has his own facebook account don't you know | 01:10 |
| bac | rs=bac for any work by choco | 01:10 |
| rockstar | bac, assertion errors and the API is also something I wonder about. | 01:10 |
| bac | choco a fine LSD if ever there was one | 01:10 |
| lifeless | bac: huh, why? | 01:11 |
| bac | gary and benji have been looking at exception handling and the API. they want to put together a white list of acceptable exceptions for the API. | 01:11 |
| lifeless | bac: what I wrote is what I want | 01:11 |
| bac | work to be forthcoming | 01:11 |
| lifeless | bac: I can send a mail, but its all there already | 01:11 |
| lifeless | in the meeting log from last meeting, which I saw you edit on the wiki :P | 01:12 |
| rockstar | bac, a whitelist? Really? I don't like that idea. | 01:12 |
| bac | lifeless: i think an email hitting the hightlights will be more effective than just posting a URL for people to read. | 01:12 |
| rockstar | bac, for instance, we raise BranchMergeProposalExists in the case where someone proposes a merge against a branch where one already exists. | 01:13 |
| rockstar | I think that's much more helpful than say, an assertion error. | 01:13 |
| bac | lifeless: i like what you're encouraging, but i think a lot of reviewers have a fixed way they work, certain things they look for, etc. IMO it'll take some effort to change habits. | 01:14 |
| bac | rockstar: yes, i think that's the direction gary is headed. | 01:14 |
| bac | rockstar: that's much better than raising an AssertionError | 01:14 |
| rockstar | bac, okay. My concern is that, for a whitelist, when we add an exception, we have to add it to the whitelist. | 01:15 |
| rockstar | Currently, to make it API-compatible, we just annotate the exception with webservice_error() | 01:15 |
| bac | rockstar: valid points you can raise when gary makes his proposal. this was just a head up, i think. | 01:16 |
| rockstar | bac, ah, okay. | 01:16 |
| lifeless | bac: perhaps we can refine it here then | 01:16 |
| lifeless | bac: the idea is that they - check the metrics; discuss the patch in the context of the values & goals on that page. | 01:17 |
| bac | rockstar: gary and benji also made the reminder that assert() shouldn't be used as it can be optimized away... | 01:17 |
| rockstar | bac, yeah. assert() is less helpful than an AssertionError | 01:17 |
| lifeless | FWIW assert and -O aren't relevant for us, though I agree in principle (and we don't use assert() for that very reason in bzr) | 01:18 |
| mwhudson | it is (or at least was) also surprisingly common for people to break lines by doing | 01:18 |
| mwhudson | assert (condition, | 01:18 |
| mwhudson | message) | 01:18 |
| rockstar | mwhudson, ew. | 01:19 |
| mwhudson | anyway, there seems to be a lot of talk here about partially presented ideas :-) | 01:19 |
| bac | mwhudson: yeah, i used to see syntactically correct but completely wrong asserts a lot | 01:19 |
| rockstar | bac, it looks like we're summing up here. I have a proposal. | 01:21 |
| bac | lifeless: i agree with your ideas regarding the values and goals. | 01:22 |
| rockstar | (a full proposal) | 01:22 |
| bac | lifeless: i just don't know how to make it happen, other than what you're already doing, which is very helpful. | 01:22 |
| bac | rockstar: sure | 01:22 |
| lifeless | bac: ok, so I'll send a short message asking for this. | 01:23 |
| rockstar | bac, I propose that we abolish the "javascript" review, and just make it a regular code review. | 01:23 |
| lifeless | bac: and perhaps you could follow up in the review team meetings asking whether folk are finding this to work well? | 01:23 |
| bac | lifeless: certainly | 01:23 |
| rockstar | bac, I'll be updating the JavascriptReviewGuidelines a bit more, as I've learned a bunch about writing high performance javascript recently, and our code makes me cringe. | 01:24 |
| rockstar | I think we could make everyone a javascripter if they had to review javascript and have things explained to them. | 01:24 |
| thumper | +1 to rockstar's proposal | 01:25 |
| bac | rockstar: i look forward to hearing what you've learned. | 01:25 |
| rockstar | bac, there will be an email today or tomorrow. | 01:26 |
| bac | becoming more competent in JS is one of my goals... | 01:26 |
| rockstar | (and I'll be participating in performance Tuesday from now on) | 01:26 |
| bac | is there anything else you'd like to talk about? | 01:27 |
| rockstar | Not from me. | 01:27 |
| bac | thumper: when you see StevenK would you remind him of the meeting time? | 01:28 |
| thumper | bac: ack | 01:28 |
| bac | thanks guys. | 01:28 |
| bac | #endmeeting | 01:28 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 19:28. | 01:28 |
| === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch | ||
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | ||
| === benji is now known as benji-lunch | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch | ||
| === benji-lunch is now known as benji | ||
| === Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha | ||
| Ursinha | OOPS-1713EB2282 | 22:09 |
| ubot5` | https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1713EB2282 | 22:09 |
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
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