[00:24] Good morning rickspencer3! [00:25] RAOF, good evening, actually, but yeah ;) [00:25] Fun Sunday? [00:26] RAOF, yeah, I forgot to do my notes for the dreaded "monthly report" [00:27] figured I'd knock it out now [00:27] Do you get to do an even *bigger* monthly report now/soon? :) [00:37] RAOF, well, I have to roll up all the Ubuntu Engineering stuff into the Canonical monthly report [00:38] That sounds like quite a substantal undertaking. [00:40] RAOF, not really [00:40] it's just like a paragraph and some stats [00:44] * TheMuso waves to rickspencer3. [00:44] hi TheMuso [00:44] hope you guys are enjoying your Monday morning [00:44] I guess without robert_ancell though :/ [00:51] TheMuso, RAOF, rickspencer3: hey mates [00:52] * tremolux waves [00:52] hey tremolux [00:52] Hey there. [00:52] hey tremolux I got assigned this bug today: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/578045 [00:52] Launchpad bug 578045 in software-center (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Upgrading packaged Ubuntu application unreasonably involves upgrading entire OS (affects: 5) (heat: 30)" [Undecided,Opinion] [00:53] I hope I handled it okay [00:53] rickspencer3: I noticed that, I think you handled it well :) [00:53] rickspencer3: I think that got assigned to you because it was linked from the blueprint [00:53] we'll see [00:54] well, I got my report updated, oh joy! [00:54] now off to dinner [00:54] rickspencer3: and it was showing up as a work item, I didn't realize that! [00:54] oh really? [00:54] it shouldn't be a work item [00:54] rickspencer3: yep! so, I think you just closed out your work item [00:54] I think it's automatic [00:54] whatever ;) [00:54] haha [00:54] but I thought only certain bugs got set as work items [00:55] but in any case, it's hardly a "work item" [00:55] :) [00:55] TheMuso, RAOF how are things going for you guys? [00:55] anything I should be aware of, etc... before I take off? [00:55] anything I could take care of for you in the morning? [00:56] Nope, I'm good (but cold, so it's time to move in front of the heater) [00:57] rickspencer3: ah, looks like mpt assigned it to you...anyway, I think it's all good [00:57] I'm going to dinner too, have a good dinner rickspencer3 [00:57] later guyses! [00:57] kenvandine, hi! [00:58] rickspencer3: Well thanks, all fine here atm. [00:59] * TheMuso was away going through the latest batch of bug mail... [01:00] nice [01:00] Bah. Stupid gnome-settings-daemon, crashing when I undock my lappy. [01:03] * TheMuso sighs. I wish people wouldn't use damn X-Fi cards... [01:03] It's because creative used to make the only decent sound cards for gaming. [01:03] Back in the 90s ;) [01:03] Yeah. [01:04] Onboard hda sound is fine for just about anything these days. [01:09] ...and USB audio devices are more often than not a pain for users. [01:11] Thanks to lazy manufacturers. [01:13] Onboard hda does tend to have annoying analog noise, though. [01:13] Because it's *clearly* not important to have the speaker/headphone/microphone jacks isolated from the random electrical noise of your system. Like pressing keys on the keyboard. [01:14] RAOF: This is true, some board manufacturers are better than others though. From experience, gigabyte are ok with this. [01:14] i.e headphones/speakers for me on gigabyte boards don't have any hum/hiss. [01:15] At least, so far as is annoying. [01:15] :D [01:15] I only really care about my laptops. Although I may buy a new desktop system to play Civ V on… [01:16] It's difficult to shop around for less noisy headsets on a laptop :) [01:16] time to go see how my update to my mini 10v went [01:16] it's weird how out of date the stable release always seems when we get near the end of a development cycle [01:18] rickspencer3: Aint that the truth./ [01:19] Especially with hardware support. [01:19] RAOF: Yeah, I haven't used any notebook other than my MBP for a while now, and it certainly doesn't leak machine noise, nore did my previous Thinkpad which had an AC97 chip. [01:20] This thinkpad isn't bad; my Asus laptop is pretty poor, though. [01:34] Are any of you guys running unity right now? [01:35] I can't figure out how to pull down the menus with the alt keys :/ [01:35] No. [01:39] rickspencer3: I am. [01:39] RAOF, couple of questions: [01:39] 1. can you use the keyboard to use the menus? [01:39] 1) No [01:39] like, use ALT-D to pull down the documents menu [01:39] :/ [01:39] so, how are you supposed to use the menus? [01:39] With a mouse, I expect. [01:40] 2. Does ubuntu-bug work for you on unity? [01:40] DX surely have some keyboard monkeys in there, though. [01:40] for me, programs don't seem to be able to launch other programs [01:40] “ubuntu-bug unity” seems to have worked. [01:41] rickspencer3: Like the terminal, for example? [01:41] Do's launching stuff fine here, the messaging menu launched evolution for me, etc. [01:41] RAOF, hold on [01:42] like quickly edit won;t launch gedit [01:42] and ubuntu-bug won't launch the browser [01:43] Ubuntu bug has launched chromium for me fine. Is there something screwy in your env? [01:44] RAOF, could be [01:44] the keyboard thing is vexing me, though [01:44] doesn't seem to be a bug logged for it or such [01:44] maybe there's another way I'm supposed to do it [01:44] It's probably a bug. [01:45] I don't use the menu very much, and don't use the keyboard shortcuts when I do; it's quite possible that it's been missed / assumed someone else will fix it / assumed it's by design / apathy'd. [01:47] whatever [01:47] I logged a but [01:47] a bug too [01:47] I'll crack the whip tomorrow when people are around [01:50] oh man, Photobomb is too wide to fit into Unity now :,( [01:50] and it does funny things when it's supposed to maximize [01:51] rickspencer3: No keyboard for menu access? That worries me when something as basic as that is missing. [01:51] TheMuso, right [01:52] though I'm not sure it's missing, it might just be different [01:52] rickspencer3: Tried the Alt + F1 or such key combination? [01:52] I.e ALT + a functino key. [01:52] gah typing [01:53] heh [01:53] right, some of those close windows, apparantly ;) [01:53] wah [01:53] Alt + F4 does that [01:53] or should do that [01:53] right :) [01:53] Thats a WM function afaicr. [01:57] Man its really starting to feel like spring here today. [01:57] well, so far this Alt key thing seems to be the only missing feature [01:57] some buggy behavior [01:57] but it seems to be complete [02:01] TheMuso: Windy, you mean? [02:01] RAOF: No, only a light breeze. The weather itself is very mild. [02:01] It was hella windy last night here. And is today, too. [02:01] Heh its already 20 degrees. [02:01] Spring, and the associated winds, have hit Hobart :) [02:03] mutter acts funny when your app is bigger than the destkop [02:04] RAOF: Spring I like. The winds, not so much. [02:04] Unity handles fullscreen windows rather nicely, though. [02:04] you mean like when you do F11> [02:04] * rickspencer3 tries [02:04] It must have been even windier in the mountains. [02:05] Man I really like how apport tells you what installation media was used to install Ubuntu. I find it useful when people choose to use KDe apps in Ubuntu. :) [02:05] RAOF: I am no longer in the mountains. [02:05] But yes, I believe it was. [02:06] TheMuso: Yeah, I know. My memory, while bad, isn't quite that bad :) [02:07] heh ok [02:10] see you guys tomorrow! [02:25] RAOF: I don't envy your xorg hardware juggling act. :S [02:25] Video hardware is worse than audio in some respects. [02:25] in terms of supporting. [02:34] TheMuso: Yeah, seems like. [02:34] It doesn't seem like support for older audio chips degrades nearly as fast as for older video chips. [02:34] Probably because they're doing less interesting things. [02:34] Right., [02:43] Time to lock my GPU again. For science! [02:51] heh [03:09] GAH! [03:09] Is launchpad down, broken, or just slow? [03:10] right now? we thought we had it fixed. [03:10] what happened [03:12] I'm trying to file a bug; it comes up with the ‘waiting for apport stuff’, then that finishes. I entered the bug title & the initial comment, hit “submit”, and then got a non-oops launchpad sorry page. [03:13] are you using edge or lpent [03:13] lpnet [03:13] Edge [03:13] also #launchpad please [03:31] * TheMuso -> lunch [03:48] Hm, fun bug. Maximising a terminal crashes it. [04:28] RAOF: fun indeed. [04:28] c/ [04:29] :) [07:35] Good morning [07:36] RAOF: how are you? [07:36] pitti: Good morning. [07:36] pitti: I'm pretty well. [07:37] Yourself? [07:37] I'm great, had a nice week of vacation [07:38] I just got quite puzzled this morning, my external monitor stopped working as soon as X starts [07:38] the only relevant upgraded package that I saw is xserver-xorg-code, but that was just dependency changes [07:39] and I can manually do startx, then enable both (internal and dvi) side by side, but not the external one exclusively [07:39] RAOF: you didn't happen to hear similar reports already? [07:39] No, I haven't [07:39] I'll continue to track this down later [07:39] RAOF: ok, thanks [07:40] So you can't actually disable the internal screen at all? [07:40] I can [07:40] pitti: welcome back! [07:41] DVI works on VTs, fails in gdm, and starts working again if I additionally enable it to the left or right of lvds [07:41] hey lifeless, thank you! [07:41] Aaaah, yes. [07:41] * pitti posted photos at http://piware.de/fotos/Donauradtour-Sep10/ [07:41] That seems moderately similar to what happens here, except that it's only on gdm that it's disabled. [07:42] IE: it works before and after. [07:42] RAOF: What I'm trying to find out is what changed; it worked well before my holidays, and something in yesterday's mega-dist upgrade broke it [07:42] I suspect gdm. [07:42] but I didn't see a new *drm*, *mesa*, etc. [07:43] RAOF: no, it happens with startx, too [07:43] * RAOF hates having to kill his session to test things! [07:43] gdm did change, but also in a trivial way [07:43] RAOF: don't worry for now, I'll collect some more info later on [07:43] Ta. [07:44] RAOF: we so much need xscreen :) [07:44] That'd be sweet :) [07:58] good morning [08:06] hey didrocks, how are you? [08:06] pitti: I'm fine, thanks :) and you? how were you holidays? [08:06] your* [08:07] didrocks: very nice; no broken spokes or flat tires, and Vienna is really enjoyable [08:07] didrocks: http://piware.de/fotos/Donauradtour-Sep10/ :) [08:09] pitti: waow, really cute! Seems you had both nice and bad weather during your travel though [08:10] didrocks: yes, mixed; but only one day with heavy rain, the rest was actually quite nice for cycling [08:11] pitti: ok, so overall the right week to get there :-) [08:12] didrocks: absolutely; the nights were quite chilly (and thus a lot of dew in the mornings), so we didn't have breakfast outside; but that worked well, most camping sites were next to a restaurant [08:14] * pitti finally beat the apport retracers into submission, as it seems [08:14] pitti: happy that you enjoyed it! How many kilometers were you cycling this week? [08:14] ahah :-) [08:14] didrocks: just 340, was quite easy [08:14] pitti: still something ^^ [08:15] pitti: Julie saw a document on Vienna. She wants to get there to eat some confectionery ;) [08:16] didrocks: the deserts are absolutely amazing there [08:16] erm, "desserts" [08:16] no deserts in Austria, sorry [08:16] that was Australia :) [08:16] I think that Julie prefers desserts to deserts ;) [08:16] (so am I, btw) [08:17] ++ [08:27] pitti, hi, do you know if calibre will be upgraded in maverick? ours is old and doesn't support a bunch of new devices, including the new kindle 3 which is supported upstream [08:30] fta: yes, that's on my list [08:30] pitti, great, i'm expecting my K3 today in the mail ;) [08:31] fta: probably later this week, though, today I have too much to do with post-holiday catchup [08:31] fta: whee! [08:31] fta: I'll see what I can do :) [08:32] i hope it will be better than my old sony prs700 [08:35] I still like my prs505 [08:37] pitti, the 700 has a touchscreen, which makes it tougher to reader (lots of glares) [08:37] -reader+read [08:37] fta: right, I noticed that; I thought a touchscreen was overkill for something to read books with [08:38] it probably halves the battery life or so [08:38] that too, right [08:41] grrr, telepathy-gabble crashes when trying to send a file in empathy over gtalk [08:42] rickspencer3, didrocks: hi, can i add stuff to the app-indicator menu using quidgets? [08:43] rickspencer3, didrocks: i want to do something with that menu for a new app i've created [08:45] fta: there is quickly add indicator from the quickly trunk [08:46] nothing in quidgets AFAIK [08:46] pitti, hello, would you consider a new bugfix-only release of openerp-server and -client for maverick? [08:46] ricotz: I don't have any idea what openerp is, but "bug fix only" sounds great for maverick :) [08:47] mvo, hello, what do you think about lp #635547 [08:47] Launchpad bug 635547 in software-center (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Simulate requires an authentication before (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/635547 [08:48] pitti, it has a fairly huge bugfix list but therefore a huge diff 3,5MB [08:48] hey pitti! [08:48] lut didrocks [08:48] salut seb128 [08:48] * pitti hugs seb128, ca va? [08:48] * seb128 hugs pitti [08:48] yes, and you? had nice holidays? [08:49] thanks for restarting the retracers during the weekend [08:49] seb128: yes, indeed I had; http://piware.de/fotos/Donauradtour-Sep10/ for some photos, or my blog if you fancy reading some German :) [08:49] ;-) [08:49] mvo, This way you could run an Installpackages call if an application description in s-c would be opened. afterwards you make a simulate call and show the "download size" or possible problems in the description [08:49] seb128: I had to fiddle with them a bit, but now the i386 one is working and amd64 is consolidating [08:49] mvo, if the user moves on, you can make a cancel call to the transaction [08:50] seb128: with which app did you get bug 632291 ? [08:50] Launchpad bug 632291 in gdm-guest-session (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "the apparmor profile needs to be updated to allow mono use (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/632291 [08:50] pitti, what was wrong this time? [08:50] pitti, they have been running for some days without issue [08:51] glatzor: sounds cool, let me check it out [08:51] pitti, tried tomboy and f-spot iirc [08:51] seb128: they failed dist-upgrading in libglib postinst, and then the bad python modules again [08:51] seb128: but seems the attachment permission issue was fixed/worked around [08:51] yes [08:51] I spend at least 10 hours with the launchpad guys until we got there [08:52] they allow direct access from the retracer to the librarian [08:52] whee, thanks for that [08:52] but then we some firewall issues in the dc [08:52] just responding to the RT about that [08:52] then upload was broken [08:52] which was other firewall issues... [08:52] dup checking works, too [08:52] mvo, who was the guy I should talk to about being allowed to change bug priorities of the aptdaemon package? [08:52] pitti, how did you fix the glib update one? [08:52] glatzor: so you are working on this currently? to make simulate not require a authentication? [08:52] glatzor: bdmurray [08:52] seb128: remove set -e from postinst, add exit 0 at the end [08:53] pitti, I logged in the retracer and moved the postinst away at each glib update [08:53] glatzor: he needs to add you to bugcontrol I believe [08:53] seb128: or that [08:53] mvo, It would just be a simple copy&paste task [08:53] I don't understand why it doesn't find the symbol [08:53] the symbol is in this glib version [08:53] wah, i386 crashed again [08:54] on what error? [08:54] HTTP Error 412: Precondition Failed [08:54] glatzor: cool [08:54] seb128: but Diogo sent a branch for fixing the test suite (oauth stuff) [08:54] seb128: so I'll test that locally [08:54] ok [08:54] deryck though it would take some time before it lands [08:54] so we went for the workaround [08:55] mvo, But I don't have god any idea about the performance [08:55] brb session restart [08:55] mvo, But this would be async anyway. So "Calculating download size ..." :) [08:58] re [08:58] mvo, whoa, installing kpackagekit on a default ubuntu desktop results in 336 MBytes of dependencies :) === gord_ is now known as gord === cassidy` is now known as cassidy === Zdra` is now known as Zdra [09:05] glatzor: the current check for this is done async too, so that should be fine (and its not cheap either ;) [09:05] glatzor: impressive :) [09:07] good morning everyone [09:08] hey dpm [09:09] hey pitti, welcome back, had a good holiday? [09:09] dpm: I had, thanks! [09:09] cool :) [09:10] pitti, thanks for fixing the guest session ;-) [09:10] seb128: I hope it works; I couldn't reproduce the problem [09:10] weird [09:11] I will test and tell you [09:11] seb128: merci [09:14] didrocks, i'll have a look thanks [09:15] mvo, should we check privileges twice? Should an user be allowed to create and simulate a transaction if he/she isn't allowed to run it? [09:16] but only asking for the pass at the Run call [09:16] didrocks, remember i said my link was flappy? here's the new project i need the app-indicator menu for, it's called Flappy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/492972/ [09:16] glatzor: hm, why not. it seems the user can do that already (if he wants to) with plain python-apt [09:16] glatzor: I don't see a risk in allowing simulation [09:16] glatzor: other than maybe DoS the daemon [09:17] I should add some code to check for a DOS [09:17] fta: hehe :-) ok, I'll have a look (but later, crazy morning here ;)) [09:18] pitti, the amd64 retracer crash I think is when it tries to mark as dup something which is already a duplicate [09:18] pitti, I had a similar case the other day [09:18] or has duplicates [09:18] seb128: hm, I thought the code would already check for that case [09:19] seb128: ah, right, it doesn't check if it already has dupes [09:19] seb128: thanks for pointing out; I'll try to get the test suite running again, it has both cases, I think [09:19] glatzor: I guess its a bit theoretical :) but yeah, can't hurt [09:19] * mvo hugs glatzor [09:19] but it hasn't worked for half a year or so, due to the oauth changes [09:19] glatzor: I mean, there are other ways (python -c 'import os;while True: os.fork()' [09:20] pitti, bug #616852 [09:20] seb128: Bug 616852 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/616852 is private [09:20] pitti, weird, it just crashed on that one but you untagged it before? [09:20] KeyError: 'DistroRelease' [09:20] KeyError: 'DistroRelease' [09:21] bah I had that the other day [09:21] something drop new line chars in the description [09:21] the retracer is not robust against that [09:21] argh, I see [09:21] ProblemType: CrashDistroRelease: Ubuntu 10.10 [09:21] WTH? [09:22] it's not on the original description [09:22] somebody or something edited it [09:22] that's twice in a week [09:22] I'm wondering if that's user errors or if editing description delete new lines [09:23] ie a bug in launchpad description editing [09:23] "ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 2.6.35-14.20-generic 2.6.35" [09:23] as well [09:23] seems a bug [09:24] why? that one looks fine [09:25] yeah, ignore me... [09:26] anyway let's see if it happens on other bugs [09:26] I remove the lock [09:27] thanks [09:35] bah, crashed again; something to look into later, I guess [09:36] seb128, when you edit anything, even a simple typo in the original description of a bug, it seems lp now reformats all the lines [09:37] could be the issue [09:37] mpt: good morning - could you help me with two strings? I need one short description for the partner reposiroty and one for extras (independent). currently there is http://paste.ubuntu.com/492980/ - but that does not capture it quite I think [09:37] mvo, in a meeting right now, bbiab [09:38] pitti, hum, log was not updated for 3 days and log_dupcheck doesn't have details [09:39] pitti, I will restart it by hand to see the output [09:40] mvo, where are each of those strings used? [09:41] Bah. Does anyone else find that double-clicking on window titlebars in Unity, or hitting the “maximize” button causes the window to die? [09:41] mpt: they are display in software-properties-gtk when you click on the "other sources" tab [09:42] pitti: Ah. I see you've commented on bug #615549. I was just about to ask someone with a nice fast boot to see how much boot time you lose by just waiting on stopped udevtrigger. [09:42] Launchpad bug 615549 in gdm (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "Dell Studio XPS 13 no video (affects: 2) (heat: 136)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615549 [09:42] mpt: CompDescritptionLong is not used in the UI currently I believe, but the description and compDescription are, I can make you ca screenshot if you want [09:42] mvo, are any of them used in USC? [09:43] RAOF, yes seeing it too, but only sometimes [09:43] mpt: not currently and not for maverick. it does make sense to have them unified though for N [09:43] htorque: Seeing it too? As in: seeing the race between gdm starting X, and udev starting drm? [09:43] mpt: but software-properties is a different thing entirely (at last currently) [09:44] RAOF, oh sorry - no, i meant the unity window close thing [09:44] htorque: Ah, ok. [09:44] It just ate my emacs session, is all. [09:44] RAOF, there's also another bug when double-clicking the titlebars: 494096 [09:44] bug 494096 [09:44] Launchpad bug 494096 in metacity (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Clicking the title of a window is bringing a window underneath it into focus (affects: 41) (dups: 5) (heat: 179)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494096 [09:45] Oh, that one. Heh. [09:45] That doesn't affect me. Almost all the time :) [09:46] * RAOF runs “quilt pop -a” in xorg-server and is saddened by the multiple pages of output. :/ [09:48] seb128: Sorry, I don't like poking people repeatedly, but the meeting is tomorrow! [09:48] bilalakhtar, oh right [09:48] will do that today then ;-) [09:49] thanks seb128 ! [09:49] you"re welcome [09:49] mvo, where in Software Sources is CompDescription used? [09:52] mvo, I broke the aptdaemon repositories :( [09:52] RAOF: I can do a comparison later on [09:53] glatzor: uh, how? [09:53] mvo, where in Software Sources is CompDescription used? (sorry, lost connection) [09:53] mpt: there is a example http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Software%20Sources.png [09:53] pitti: Thanks. None of my laptops boot particularly quickly, so I'm not likely to see the full impact. [09:53] fta: calibre 0.7.18 uploaded; let me know how it goes [09:54] RAOF: I guess the effect on the Dell mini 10 will be biggest; fast SSD, slow CPu [09:54] mpt: CompDescription is normally used for cases where we have multiple components (like main,universe). but for extras and archive.canonical.com we only have one, the screenshot has a lucid cdrom that shows what it looks like with multiple ones [09:54] pitti: Seems like a reasonable guess. None of my systems have an ssd :'( [09:55] glatzor: maybe I can help? [09:55] pitti, thanks. will test tomorrow as i missed the shipment today, the ups guy didn't even show up :( [09:56] well, i can test with my sony too [09:57] mvo, how about something like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/492990/ [09:58] The CompDescriptionLong changes don't matter obviously if it's not being used anywhere [09:59] mpt: excellent, thanks a lot [10:03] mvo, an upgrade broke the repositories. I am already getting some help on #launchpad. 0.3 is repaired, but trunk still broken [10:07] pitti, the amd64 retracer is running [10:07] it retracer 2 bugs now [10:07] nice [10:07] let's see if it stays [10:07] glatzor: ok, they are the better people to help :) [10:07] glatzor: but pretty annoying :/ [10:08] seb128: and i386 failed on #635034 with the precondition thing; I untag and restart [10:08] pitti, thanks [10:08] seb128: hm, this isn't a duplicate of anything, or has dupes [10:09] dunno why it doesn't like it then [10:09] just untag and see if it does the same on other bugs [10:09] yup; it already retraced a couple of other bugs in the morning, so I guess/hope not [10:09] (done) [10:10] I'm wondering what changed [10:10] they retraced for 3 days solid [10:18] seb128: poppler 0.14.3> If necessary I can probably get to that at some point this week, but if Robert or you beat me to it, I wouldn't be sad [10:18]