[14:54] <TheBiggerGuycom> Hi, is there anyone who can help me with https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/637172
[15:19] <bvleur> Hi. I'm wondering why a script with "start on started ssh" can launch processes with a lower pid than "sshd"
[15:21] <ashb> bvleur: because pids are fairly random
[15:21] <ashb> and the sshd might well fork
[15:23] <bvleur> okay. fair enough. I've created a script that runs autossh with remote forward to localhost:22. It seems that running it before sshd is up makes the forward fail, so I want to make sure they start in order. PIDs don't tell me the boot order then right?
[19:31] <yaaang> is it possible to use upstart (init, start, etc) as non-root?
[19:32] <yaaang> would like to daemonize & manage processes without requiring root; supervisord seems to fit the bill but i was wondering if i should also take a deeper look at upstart 
[19:36] <JanC> yaaang: why not use sudo to manage who can start/stop/etc. system daemons without needing to give them general root access?
[19:37] <yaaang> JanC: that can also restrict to starting/stopping specific services?
[19:38] <JanC> yaaang: yes, see the sudoers manpage for examples
[19:39] <JanC> you can restrict people to specific commands including parameters etc.
[19:40] <JanC> plus, with sudo every time they use this, it will be logged
[19:46] <ion> A future release of Upstart will handle users’ jobs as well.
[19:46] <yaaang> JanC: how does a non-root user add/remove jobs?
[19:47] <yaaang> ion: ah, i see
[19:49] <JanC> you could create a script to add a new job and allow users to use that script with sudo, but of course that has serious security implications
[19:49] <yaaang> JanC: right
[19:50] <JanC> I suppose it wouldn't too difficult to create a system-wide upstart job that looks for user-specific job files though
[19:51] <yaaang> maybe even easier than that is the supervisord route - just let users run their own process management daemons
[19:53] <JanC> I don't know supervisord, but probably it could be that upstart-job  ;)
[19:54] <JanC> at least until upstart grows these features itself