=== jjohansen is now known as jj-afk
psusianyone know how to get emacs to find the right source file when using gdb?  it doesn't seem to have the right search path for the file names gdb is emitting and the info page is useless.01:45
YokoZar1The Maverick Me Menu currently enforces one character tweets.  Because 140 is way too many ;)02:02
ScottKThat's where it was bound to end up eventually anyway.02:08
psusicjwatson, was it you that I talked with several months back about dropping the Ubuntu deviations to parted and dmraid that strip the 'p' character separating the base device from the partition number for dmraid devices?03:00
mwhudsonhi, i have a package who's postinst is failing04:53
mwhudsonis there some way i can lie to my system and say that it's configured ok, so that it doesn't fail every time i run apt?04:54
ajmitch_you can be evil & edit the postinst in /var/lib/dpkg/info/package.postinst, just start it off with an exit04:54
ajmitch_this won't stick around when you upgrade it, but will get you past the failing postinst04:55
mwhudsonin the land of kernel bugs, evil is king04:55
mwhudsonor something04:55
mwhudsonthanks anyway :)04:55
slangasekwhat sort of kernel bug? :)05:03
mwhudsonslangasek: one that causes partitions from the sd card to be mounted read only on beagle boards05:04
slangasekah, fun05:05
mwhudsonwhich specifically makes update-initramfs' postinst not happy05:05
* slangasek nods05:05
mwhudsonare there any mirrors of ports.ubuntu.com ?06:02
oraclefeaturefreeze?? why!?06:20
mwhudsonoracle: because. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule06:26
oraclemy battery was lasting a great deal shorter on fedora 11 than this ubuntu 10, did someone improve something?06:30
pittiGood morning06:32
pittiSpamapS: I just added you to the WI tracker team, so you can commit directly06:46
SpamapSpitti: thanks! :) Any way you can have the errors cc'd to the team mailing list?06:54
SpamapSpitti: btw, I don't do Tae Kwon Do, I do Kenpo Karate.. but they're very similar. :)06:54
pittiSpamapS: oh, right, I should set up a ML for that team06:55
pittiSpamapS: ML created, I need to wait for a few minutes until it works07:05
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SpamapSpitti: how long have you been training in TKD?07:16
pittiSpamapS: since about 200107:17
pittiSpamapS: with about 1.5 years of break in between07:17
pittiSpamapS: but I'm not that much of a fighter :) we don't do a lot of sparring07:18
SpamapSpitti: I've been doing Kenpo for 3 years now. Great fun.07:18
pittiSpamapS: we should exchange experiences over a beer in Orlando!07:18
SpamapSpitti: yes for sure. :)07:18
lifelessI can add some aikido yoshinkan in there07:20
lifeless(more talk -> longer discussion -> moah beer)07:20
pittilifeless: sounds like a good plan07:21
lifelesspitti: hey how are the retracers07:21
pittiSpamapS: you should see it now on https://edge.launchpad.net/people/+me/+editemails07:21
pittilifeless: haven't checked again yet07:21
* pitti restarts them07:21
lifelesspitti: please do?07:21
pittiSpamapS: cronjob updated to mail the ML07:22
SpamapSbeer + martial arts + code == the beginnings of an awesome game engine? ;)07:23
SpamapSpitti: sweeeet07:23
pittilifeless: seems the amd64 one is quite happy, it's been running since about midnight07:24
SpamapSlifeless: I'd like to echo the sentiments of whoever said "launchpad seems faster today" .. I feel a bit more productive in bug management in general lately. :)07:24
lifelessok great07:24
lifelessSpamapS: thanks!07:24
lifelessSpamapS: (you could send it to the list, I'm sure the other devs would love to hear that)07:24
SpamapSlifeless: will do :)07:27
pittiargh, could LP please stop importing bug comments from 3 years old closed bugs which nobody ever looks at any more..07:55
pittior at least, stop telling about them07:55
bilalakhtarpitti: does LP import bug comments from other trackers? really?07:56
pittiapparently so07:57
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apwSpamapS, pitti,08:45
apwhow is the tracker today08:45
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pittitkamppeter: is there a bug about smbd not waiting for cups?08:53
=== diwic is now known as diwic_afk
apwSpamapS, just did a local run of the generators and its not regenerating the older svgs09:03
pittiapw: you might need to run with -a for that09:04
pittiI think it's not regenerating older milestone charts by default09:04
pitti(to save cycles)09:04
apwpitti, would the installed version also be -a or not -a09:04
pittinot -a by default09:04
apwas i think we need an expensive run to fix the older graphs09:04
pittidue to the per-user charts, it currently takes aaages09:04
pittiyes, we can run it once with -a for taht09:04
apwi'll run it now to confirm they are fixed09:05
apwpitti, yeah that fixed the broken lines for me (-a)09:34
apwpitti, do we do one -a per day still ?09:34
fargiolaswhat is the better place to put gconf based customizations (let's say I want to build a custom ubuntu variant) so that they are kept over updates? is /usr/share/gconf/defaults dir meant for this kind of job?09:41
pittiapw: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~work-items-tracker-hackers/launchpad-work-items-tracker/trunk/revision/22509:45
apwpitti, looks good09:46
pittitkamppeter: I committed upstartification into cups trunk, if you want to test09:50
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tkamppeterpitti, great. will try.09:55
pittitkamppeter: it still causes smbd to hang if I stop/start it manually (will discuss with Keybuk), but on a normal boot, both are running09:56
tkamppeterpitti, some questions:10:01
tkamppeterpitti, is the "author" field really for the upstream author of the program to be started? Or is it for the author of the upstart script?10:02
pittitkamppeter: not sure; gdm uses the upstream one, smbd has slangasek10:03
tkamppeterpitti, the "pre-start script" (I assume that this is a shell (sh) script) has10:03
tkamppeter[ -x /usr/sbin/cupsd ]10:03
pittitkamppeter: right, it's a sh -e script10:03
pittifor preparing the environment, see man 5 init10:03
tkamppeteras first line. does this really make sense? Should it not be something like10:04
pittitkamppeter: that'll fail the job if cupsd doesn't exist10:04
pittitkamppeter: since the script is set -e10:04
tkamppeter[ -x /usr/sbin/cupsd ] || exit 110:04
ionThat’s just redundant10:05
ionOTOH, it documents itself better.10:05
ionOTOH, anyone editing the code should be familiar with the semantics of sh and set -e anyway. :-P10:05
=== diwic_afk is now known as diwic
tkamppeterpitti, I have looked into the upstart script now and it looks much simpler than an init script. Looks like upstart takes a lot of repeated stuff away from the developer or admin.10:16
pittiright, I could drop all the pidfile and status handling10:18
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tkamppeterpitti, in the init script there are code sections "Get the timezone set" and "restart xprint". They are not in the upstart script. Are they obsolete?10:35
pittitkamppeter: I tested logs and jobs, and they have teh correct timezone without setting $TZ10:35
pittitkamppeter: I dropped xprint because handling it there would also require upstartification of xprint, and we don't really support xprint in Ubuntu anyway10:36
tkamppeterpitti, the init script also contains10:37
tkamppeterchown root:lpadmin /usr/share/ppd/custom 2>/dev/null || true10:37
tkamppeter        chmod 3775 /usr/share/ppd/custom 2>/dev/null || true10:37
tkamppeterIs this not needed any more?10:37
pittithat should go into the postinst; no need to do it on every start10:37
pittitkamppeter: (it's in bzr now)10:39
tkamppeterpitti, the debian/changelog has a small bug: The first item of my changes should start with debian/patches/default-ripcache-size-auto.dpatch. We had the patch before, we do not "Add" it.10:42
pittitkamppeter: ah, thanks; fixed10:43
pittitkamppeter: I merged the two maverick changelogs, since these aren't appropriate for a Debian upload10:44
=== diwic is now known as diwic_lunch
tkamppeterpitti, upstartification of CUPS seems to work well for me. There is even a backward compatibility interface, to comply with the LSB (very important for LSB-based driver packages).10:55
pittitkamppeter: I added some preinst code to clean up the old init script; you shouldn't have any /etc/rc*/*cups* any more, and /etc/init.d/cups should be a symlink10:57
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tkamppeterpitti, clean-up works. Only thing to be done is now to coordinate with Keybuk so that the smbd script does not hang on manual operation.11:14
pittiright, I'm waiting for him11:14
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quadrisprodiwic_lunch, do you need help to push new fluidsynth release to git?11:22
tkamppeterpitti, are my Jockey patches OK?11:23
pittistill no time to look at them, sorry11:23
=== diwic_lunch is now known as diwic
diwicquadrispro, hi there!11:24
diwicquadrispro, if you want to do something, be my guest :-)11:24
quadrisprodiwic, well, you'll see my changes soon11:25
diwicquadrispro, should we try to get the LADSPA stuff up and working again? If so, you should pull changeset 360-36311:26
lucidfoxquadrispro, so you're a DD now? Congratulations!11:27
quadrisprolucidfox, yep, get my new status on May, thanks! :)11:27
lucidfoxMay? o_O11:27
quadrisprodiwic, well, having a look11:27
lucidfoxand only just changed fluidsynth?11:28
quadrisprolucidfox, no, did a lot of stuff :)11:29
cjwatsonmvo: could you have a look at bug 637517?11:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 637517 in OEM Priority Project "oem-config-remove-gtk crashed with AttributeError in _run_transaction()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63751711:33
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quadrisprodiwic, I've switched the packaging to the 3.0 (quilt) format, so remember to run quilt pop -a after git-build'ing the package11:37
coolbhavihello archive admins, can you please sync https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/636822 as users like this package to be in sync with upstream as possible and personally I would like to see updated networks support in maverick11:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 636822 in mobile-broadband-provider-info (Ubuntu) "Please sync mobile-broadband-provider-info 20100910-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New]11:39
diwicquadrispro, okay11:42
diwicquadrispro, thanks for your contribution :-)11:43
Laneycjwatson: I might sync f-spot manually in lieu of an immediate fix to that bug, if that's OK? Or would you rather use it as a test case?11:43
quadrisprodiwic, we should move talking about fluidsynth in #debian-multimedia chan (on OFTC)11:44
cjwatsonLaney: I have another test case, though was sort of hoping to build up pressure on that bug ;-)11:47
Laneycjwatson: final freeze is building up pressure on me ;)11:47
cjwatsoncoolbhavi: I've been doing sync runs daily; there's no need to ask11:47
cjwatsoncoolbhavi: get a sponsor to ack it and it will be done11:47
coolbhavicjwatson, okay!11:48
mvocjwatson: sure, will do12:06
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directhexcjwatson, my proposed fix would work. all we need is for Mike Gemünde to legally change his name to an ascii-only one, then the problem goes away.12:17
apwcjwatson, when one boots the maverick beta image, let the burning man be, and then chose try ubuntu from the subsequent menu, the machine seems to hang for several minuts (about 3 on an atom) and apparently there is a large lzma running then, is this expected?12:18
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cjwatsonapw: I don't know really12:19
cjwatsonapw: the initrd is lzma-compressed for space reasons12:19
cjwatsondo you mean that early?12:19
apwi mean that early and for that long yeah12:19
cjwatsonnot really much I can do12:19
apwi have the try/install dialog for several minutes there12:19
apwseems to be new behaviour is all12:20
cjwatsonit's been lzma-ed for a while12:20
ograget a faster CPU :)12:20
apwogra, you can talk!12:20
ogrause ARM !12:20
apwif an atom is struggling i don't see an arm finding it easy12:20
cjwatsonI'm not going to have time to look into it, I'm afraid; if you do and find something untoward, I'd be happy to look at fixing it12:20
ograapw, you havent used omap4 yet :)12:21
cjwatsonbut I have my hands full with EFI12:21
apwogra, noone has :)12:21
apwcjwatson, fair enough, will see if i can determine what its doing it do and whether it is necessary12:21
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=== smb-afk is now known as smb
=== ivoks-afk is now known as ivoks
smoserpitti, ping. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/634102 is ready for sru review.  I don't think i've left anything un-done.  could you, or someone on the sru review team, please review ?13:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 634102 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Lucid) "t1.micro EC2 instances hang on reboot" [High,Triaged]13:58
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kristian014does anyone speak english?14:03
amitkkristian014: that would be the default language14:03
kristian014i need somebody to translate for me14:03
kristian014isn't this a polish chat?14:03
amitkit isn't a polish channel14:03
kristian014ooohh ok14:04
kristian014so does anyone speak polish??? lol14:04
cjwatsontry #ubuntu-pl14:05
seb128cjwatson, ev: hi, how is ubiquity installing translations?14:16
seb128does it use aptdaemon?14:16
evseb128: langpacks?14:16
seb128ev: bug #63092414:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 630924 in Ubuntu Translations "Language packs are not downloaded during installation" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63092414:17
evindeed, it's on my list14:17
seb128I'm wondering if you need a change similar to bug #61282514:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 612825 in language-selector (Ubuntu Maverick) "can't install new languages (nothing happen)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61282514:17
seb128ev: ie http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/language-selector/ubuntu/revision/38014:18
seb128dpm, ^14:18
dpmah, thanks seb128, ev14:19
seb128ev: well I just wanted to point the language-selector change in case that was useful14:20
pittihello smoser; I'll do an SRU round at some point this week, yes14:20
evseb128: no, it doesn't use aptdaemon.  It uses python-apt with Dir set to /target.14:20
seb128ev: ok, ignore me then ;-)14:20
evthanks for the pointer though14:20
smoserpitti, thanks.14:20
=== cking is now known as cking-afk
sebnerbad seb128 uploaded b0rken nautilus :P14:22
seb128sebner, how broken?14:22
sebnerseb128: pretty, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/63770414:23
seb128sebner, it works for me at least14:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 637704 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus not starting" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:23
seb128sebner, wfm14:23
seb128we didn't get any complain on #ubuntu-desktop or other bugs14:24
sebnerseb128: well, at least 5 people seem affected14:24
sebner8 even14:24
seb128I guess one of those 8 people need to debug the issue14:25
sebnerseb128: /me offers himself if you provide guidance14:26
seb128sorry but ENOCLUE about that14:26
seb128seems a libunique issue14:26
seb128did you restart your session since the upgrade?*14:27
seb128or nautilus?14:27
sebnerseb128: let me check14:28
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sebnerseb128: wuhhh, the magic of open source strikes again :D14:29
mptcjwatson, doko: How can I find out whether a particular package has an archive override? (fonttools and fonttools-eexecop are the two packages I'm interested in)14:30
seb128sebner, works after restart?14:30
sebnerseb128: yep, sorry for the noice14:30
seb128pedro_, ^14:31
Laneycan't nautilus arrange to bring that service up?14:31
pedro_thanks for the info sebner14:31
seb128Laney, it will be a non issue for upgrade from lucid14:32
seb128Laney, the port to gapplication was only during the unstable cycle and reverted14:32
Laneyoh ok14:32
sebnerLaney: :)14:33
talathi i want to try develop a application that lets you uncharge and recharge the battery/ specify min. battery level on which to start charging.14:39
talatchange show a road for development i dont now where i must start14:40
talatsummury how can i control charing on ubuntu14:43
talathow can i control charging on ubuntu ?14:48
cjwatsonmpt: all packages have overrides14:57
cjwatsonmpt: you can look at what the overrides say by looking in the /ubuntu/indices/ directory on mirrors14:57
pittitalat: the upower daemon (talk to it via dbus) tracks the charge level of the laptop battery, and also from devices14:58
pittitalat: you can connect to it with the libupower-glib library, or via dbus directly, and listen to charge change signals14:58
pittitalat: check "upower --monitor-detail" whether it knows about your's14:58
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
mptcjwatson, excellent, found just what I wanted, thanks. Now where do I report a bug that an override is incorrect? On the package itself, or somewhere else?14:59
cjwatsonmpt: doesn't matter exactly where (on the package itself is as good as any), but the important thing is to subscribe ubuntu-archive to the bug15:00
mptok, thanks15:00
talatpitti, upower give me some information. But how can disable charing ?15:02
pittiyou can't15:02
pittitalat: assuming that you mean "charging"15:02
pittithat's done by the hardware15:02
pittiwell, and BIOS, I assume15:02
pittithere might be some machine specific tricks how to control it, but if there are, they aren't supported or known to me15:03
superm1some hardware will have a hotkey to do it, but when it does, generally the BIOS is responsible and only sends a notification to the OS that it did it15:03
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=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
talatsuperm1, pitti very interseting i dont think why i cant control my charger status. I guess electronical reponse.15:06
psusicjwatson: got a moment to talk about grub2, dmraid, and the ubuntu specirfic patches to remove the 'p' character from the names to separate the partition number from the base name?15:07
cjwatsonpsusi: so, mostly I was just trying to avoid changing things, having only been reminded of this last week15:12
cjwatsonseems a bit late for a transition15:13
cjwatsonpsusi: if you think it's actively important for some reason, we can do it, but I do know dmraid seems to be rather undertested just now15:13
cjwatsonfiguring out what's wrong with grub2 on dmraid is on my to-do, since I've had a number of reports of problems and I suspect some of them are upstream15:13
psusicjwatson: I started looking at it again because ther was a post on the forums about grub failing to install now on dmraid.. so I started testing it last night, figuring it was because of the p... that grub-probe was getting confused by the device name when trying to identify the underlying device and partition number without the p15:13
psusiso I dropped the patch to dmraid, and modified a patch to parted that had the same effect, and got the p showing up in the device name again, and the install worked up until it tried to install grub, where grub-probe still fails15:14
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cjwatsonright, I can't offer specific advice there although I will be able to fix it once I have a chance to sit down and reproduce it ...15:15
psusithe purpose of grub-probe is what exactly?  to map the kernel device you are trying to install on to a bios disk, partition, abstraction module, and fs?15:15
cjwatsonroughly yes15:15
cjwatsonalso determines whether the boot loader will be able to read a particular file15:16
psusiand how can it possibly do that with dmraid? ;)15:16
psusiother than just assuming a dmraid device is hd0?15:16
cjwatsongrub has a certain amount of raid support15:16
cjwatsonwhich can be extended to dmraid15:16
cjwatsonbut in any case it can probably just pick a disk and read off it15:16
psusiwell that's the thing... with dmraid you DON'T use a raid abstraction module, since the bios takes care of it15:17
cjwatsonwell then, there should be little problem15:17
cjwatsonit just needs to know that at the right time, that's all15:17
psusiyea, so I think grub-probe needs to notice it's a dmraid device, split the partition number off, and assume the base device is hd0... I think... hrm...15:18
cjwatsonI don't expect that there's a particular boot-time problem - it'll just be a matter of tedious OS device manipulation15:18
cjwatsonthis is stuff I've done before15:19
cjwatsonin fact I *did* get it working at one point15:19
cjwatsonit has obviously bitrotted a bit15:19
psusiyea, it worked in lucid15:19
cjwatsonbut if you look at e.g. util/deviceiter.c you'll see a good deal of dmraid-specific code, written by me15:20
cjwatsonit just needs to be debugged back into a working state, that's all15:20
* psusi reads on15:20
psusiso did you just have it assume a dmraid device is hd0 or did you come up with some magic to figure it out?15:20
cjwatsonforget about hd015:21
cjwatsonthe drive ordering doesn't particularly matter these days anyway15:21
cjwatsonit just sticks any dmraid arrays on the end of the enumeration15:21
psusithe mbr needs a bios disk number to read in the core doesn't it?15:21
psusihow does it manage that?15:21
cjwatsonin the Unix-land utilities, we need a drive number in order to have a consistent bidirectional mapping, and otherwise it's irrelevant nowadays15:22
cjwatsonat boot-time, two things15:22
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cjwatsonfirstly, the core image is normally embedded right after the MBR, on the same disk, so it can just use %dl which the BIOS gives it15:23
cjwatsonsecondly, the core image finds everything else using UUIDs15:23
cjwatson(actually, if /boot is on the same disk as the core image, that's optimised away, and we just store the partition number)15:23
psusitheoretically the bios is supposed to pass the mbr the bios disk number it was loaded from in the CL register, but I learned from working on the ReactOS boot loader that not all bioses do, which is why dos etc always hard code it to 80 in the mbr15:23
cjwatsonwhat usually happens is that the disk you boot from magically becomes 0x80 for that boot15:24
SpamapSapw: add --all-milestones to generate the old milestones15:24
psusiwas it dl?  hrm... thought it was cl... either way15:24
cjwatsonbut grub's mbr does have some sanity checks for things going wrong15:24
cjwatsonit's dld15:24
cjwatsonanyway, none of that is dmraid-specific15:24
psusiyea, that's the other industry standard kludge... since does hard codes 80, the bios just makes whichever disk you boot from 80 ;)15:25
cjwatsonwe set dl to 0x80 if it looks wrong, and otherwise use what we're given15:25
cjwatsonif it has the top bit set, it's generally right15:25
Sarvattwhat's the process for requesting a binary only pocket change for a package? libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental (which contains nouveau dri) is completely unsupported by upstream and is in main currently15:25
psusiI see...15:25
cjwatsonSarvatt: file bug, subscribe ubuntu-archive, we'll figure it out from there and ask you for more if need be15:26
cjwatsonthere was a patch on grub-devel recently for some dmraid issue, I think, which I haven't reviewed yet15:27
psusithat's another oddity I've noticed... grub sets the device by name in the cfg, then uses the search command to search by uuid... seems redundant doesn't it?15:27
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psusibut that's neither here nor there... I'll go read code15:28
psusiohh, but you think it is too late then to drop the 'p' removal for mav?15:28
cjwatsonthe 'set root' + search --fs-uuid is really just insurance15:29
cjwatsonyes, it's redundant, it's a just-in-case kind of thing.  occasionally it helps and it doesn't hurt15:29
cjwatsondropping 'p'> I'd say only if it's needed to fix installation15:29
cjwatsonif it's needed, fine, we can do it15:30
psusiheh, actually I ran into a situation where it does hurt... if you have multiple devices with the same uuid... like if you have an lvm snapshot ;)15:30
cjwatsonotherwise, sorry for forgetting it until now; I had incorrectly been thinking that it was bound up with lvm2, and it wasn't until I went to update lvm2 that I remembered that was wrong15:30
cjwatsonpsusi: what I mean is that the 'set root' doesn't hurt15:30
cjwatsonLVM snapshots should be explicitly avoided in maverick15:30
cjwatsonif you can demonstrate this not happening correctly, it is a bug15:31
psusispeaking of lvm2... when I installed it on the daily livecd last night, I got a bunch of errors... it seemed to be a result of it pulling in watershed and/or trying to rebuild the initrd15:31
cjwatsonbut GRUB's LVM code definitely tries to avoid snapshots15:31
cjwatsoninstalling things that update the initramfs on the live CD is generally tricky15:31
psusiI thought the trigger noticed it was on livecd and just bailed out15:32
cjwatsonFWIW, in general, anything that tries to use (hd0) or (hd0,1) type addressing at boot time in GRUB these days, without having a UUID search as well, is deprecated15:32
cjwatsonit's still supported because there'll be user configuration using it15:32
cjwatsonand it's easier to type at rescue mode or whatever15:33
cjwatsonbut long-term it isn't reliable and can't really be made reliable15:33
cjwatsonthere's somebody who sits spamming grub2 bugs on LP about how GRUB doesn't match BIOS drive ordering, missing the point that (a) there's no way for it to do so and (b) if it matters then it's a bug15:34
cjwatson(yes, there's EDD.  it's supported on a subset of hardware, and the contortions required to get at it from userspace and do anything useful with it are moderately hideous)15:34
psusiyea, reminds me of floppy detection... technically the drives were supposed to respond to a detect command to find out their size and capacity... but nobody bothered implementing that part of the spec, which is why you had to go into the bios and tell it what kind you plugged in... and the os has to get that from the bios and trust it... leading to idiots complaining that Ubuntu shows them a...15:36
psusi...floppy when they don't have one...15:36
psusiwho then complain when told to stop telling their bios they have one15:37
=== jono is now known as jono-phone
pittiKeybuk: hello, how are you?16:11
pittiKeybuk: I have a question about cups upstartification; do you have a minute for that?16:11
Keybukfor you, I have ten16:11
Keybukand I do apologise, my brain has a lot of "new upstart" in it, so I might have to think how the current version behaves16:13
slangasekpitti: FWIW, I understood that the chmod/chown in the cups init script was because admins might drop local files in this directory (ignoring the FHS); but maybe this was just wishful thinking on my part :)16:20
pittiKeybuk: I created an upstart script and added the necessary transition bits (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~pitti/cups/debian-trunk/revision/893); starting/stopping cups works, and booting works as well (both smbd and cups are running)16:23
pittiKeybuk: but if I "stop cups; stop smbd", and "start smbd", (or even manually start cups), the start smbd keeps hanging forever, and "status smbd" says "smbd stop/starting"16:24
pittiKeybuk: do you have a hint how I can debug that?16:24
Keybukyou'd need to restart dbus too16:26
Keybukand restart the filesystem ;-)16:26
pittiI don't understand16:27
pittiso smbd blocks on what exactly?16:28
pittistatus cups says "started"16:28
pittiso smbd could just go?16:28
Keybuklet me work it through with you16:28
Keybukso you've just run stop cups; stop smbd16:28
Keybukand everything looks fine16:28
Keybuknow you run16:28
Keybuk# start smbd16:28
Keybukupstart will begin starting that job16:28
Keybukthe first thing it emits is the "starting smbd" event16:28
Keybukand it will _WAIT_ for that event to complet16:28
Keybukso upstart looks for jobs with "on starting smbd", in this case cups16:29
Keybukcups isn't running (you stopped it), so cups will take the event16:29
Keybukbut cups needs (you used "and") started dbus and filesystem too16:29
Keybukso cups isn't ready to start yet16:29
Keybukbut because cups is holding the event, smbd isn't ready to start yet either16:29
Keybukit's a great example of bug #44765416:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 447654 in upstart "init: using 'and' operators can cause hangs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44765416:30
pittiKeybuk: hm, but that even happens if I start cups before16:31
Keybuklet's work that one16:31
Keybukback at stop cups; stop smbd and everything is ok16:31
Keybuknow you start cups, and cups *finishes starting*16:32
Keybukonce again, it's in a reset state (the start on bit has been cleared)16:32
Keybukso start smbd, will cause "starting smbd", which will get picked up by the cups job for the next time it's started16:32
pittiright, we are at16:32
pitti$ status cups; status smbd16:32
Keybukso it's still blocked16:32
pitticups start/running, process 175116:32
pittismbd stop/starting16:32
Keybuk# initctl emit started dbus16:32
Keybuk# initctl emit filesystem16:32
Keybuk# initctl emit stopped udevtrigger16:32
Keybuknot filesystem16:32
Keybuknot sure why I had filesystem in my brain here16:33
pittiah, because it literally is "start cups when smbd starts", not really "cups needs to be started in order for smbd to start"16:33
Keybukwhat you've said there is16:33
pittiargh, meeting now, back in 20 mins or so (sorry)16:34
Keybuk"if smbd starts, wait for dbus and udevtrigger, then start cups"16:34
Keybuk(and let smbd start)16:34
Keybukthat can also work in the other order16:34
Keybuk"after dbus and udevtrigger, when smbd starts, start cups then let smbd start"16:34
Keybukthe problem is that once cups has started, it forgets that dbus and udevtrigger have been16:34
Keybukso if you ever "stop cups" you'll have to restart all those other things16:35
tkamppeterKeybuk, is there no possibility for "make sure that the cupsd is running when smbd is started"?16:36
Keybuknot currently, Upstart doesn't work that way16:37
Keybukin fact, if anything, it's designed to stop you doing that16:37
Keybukbecause "what if the user doesn't *want* cups running?"16:37
Keybukand "what if the user has disabled the init script?"16:37
Keybukand "what if the init script is still there, but the package is uninstalled?"16:37
cjwatsonthis all became much easier for me to think about when I realised that upstart start* and stop* events are events which are emitted at certain times and which block until all the jobs hung off them have reached their desired state16:37
cjwatsonrather than some kind of different abstraction16:38
Keybukwell, that's all they are :p16:38
cjwatsonit was a bit like the epiphany where I realised that Verilog (a VHDL) was NOT NOT NOT procedural despite looking like it was16:38
Keybukfew people realise that's how Upstart works16:38
cjwatsonand thereby managed not to fail my second year CS project ;-)16:38
KeybukI like to explain it like this:16:38
Keybukyou have a conveyor belt16:39
Keybukat one end you put things ("events)" on it16:39
Keybukand at the other end is a great big masher that bond villains habitually fall into16:39
Keybuk(nobody knows why, they just do, it has to be factored into the janitorial budget)16:39
Keybukemitting an event is making something and putting it on the conveyor16:39
Keybukand you're allowed to attach a piece of string to it if you like16:40
Keybukif you do, you know the event got mashed because the string went limp and you can do something else16:40
Keybukif you don't, you don't care16:40
cjwatson... I think I'll stick with my current mental model :-)16:40
Keybukso you can put an event on, wait for it to get mashed (using the string), and then put another event on, or carry on with what you're doing16:40
Keybuknow, along the conveyor are the jobs16:40
Keybukthey're allowed to take events off16:40
Keybukas long as they put them back when they're done16:40
psusiI like it... attach string to second object, and when first object gets mashed, it pulls the second onto the belt16:41
Keybukpsusi: exactly16:41
cjwatsonthe thing that doesn't quite help with is that more than one job can take an event off the conveyor at the same time (right?)16:41
cjwatsonat which point the metaphor kind of breaks down a bit16:41
Keybukwell, I guess16:42
Keybukbut I like my metaphor16:42
cjwatsonwell, not at the same time exactly, but concurrently anyway16:42
psusiI see jobs as just a part of the conveyor belt... more jobs = longer belt16:42
Keybukmaybe jobs get to put a kind of string on that stops things falling into the conveyor?16:42
mohanohithere is an ever long bug in ubuntu : http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/15648/16:42
mohanohiwill it be solved?16:42
Keybukanyway, the key point as psusi says is that jobs themselves make events16:43
Keybukso jobs can line up waiting for other jobs16:43
Keybukand things can get stuck because they're waiting for things that got mashed16:43
mohanohieating lot of ram while copying to usb 2.0 drives files more than 1-2 gb16:43
mohanohiand slowing down the transfer rate16:43
cjwatsonmohanohi: (not that this has anything to do with me, but) has somebody narrowed it down to the particular component of the OS that's causing a problem, and filed a proper bug?16:45
psusibut can't events be both level or edge triggered?  like the run level... it's level... it never gets mashed, it just is16:45
mohanohicjwatson: donno16:45
Keybukpsusi: no, they're always edge in upstart16:45
mohanohiits around 200816:46
Keybukthe "state" of the runlevel is handled in /var/run/utmp16:46
Keybukwhen you run telinit, it reads this to get the PREVLEVEL and puts the argument in RUNLEVEL16:46
Keybukotherwise it's just an event "runlevel $RUNLEVEL $PREVLEVEL" is treated no differently than "control-alt-delete"16:46
Keybukit happens, if you missed it, go read utmp16:46
tkamppeterauto-closing bugs on uploads with the fix did not return to work yet?16:49
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
psusiso if you make a job start on runlevel 3, it will only start when you SWITCH to runlevel 3?  but if you're already at runlevel 3 and the job isn't running, it won't be started?16:50
tyarussopsusi: correct16:50
tyarussopsusi: Otherwise it would be impossible to stop a service.16:51
psusigood point16:51
psusiso how do you make sure a newly installed service is started?  if you manually start it, but it isn't supposed to be running in the current runlevel....16:52
Keybukbug #30777916:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 307779 in upstart "init: new jobs should be automatically started" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30777916:53
ionpsusi: Native Upstart jobs probably shouldn’t care about runlevels if at all possible.16:54
cjwatsontkamppeter: I'm told it's on its way, but it's already later than it was promised to me16:54
ftasladen, yt?16:58
sladenfta: yo16:59
sladenfta: I spoke to agl yesterday.  See also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu_Font_Family#Howto for sign up details16:59
ftasladen, ok17:00
sladenfta: I couldn't replicate the issues with Chromium yesterday but apparently the errors are still arriving at your end17:00
sladenfta: really it needs one or more of those users to tell us what (font family) version they're using and hopefully to grab that historial version and try with that17:01
ftasladen, the reason i pointed to the ubuntu fonts is that all the crash reports i got were from people who have those fonts, the crashes started after they installed them, and disappeared as soon as they removed them17:02
ftasladen, there's a bug in the upstream bts, and another in lp17:02
pittiKeybuk: re (sorry, had a meeting)17:02
ftasladen, plenty in the forums, and even more in my mailbox17:02
ftasladen, but i'm not impacted, as i never installed those fonts17:03
pittiKeybuk: right, so I should stop thinking about states, and only think about "edge triggers"17:03
pittiKeybuk: so, in other words, do you consider the current cups start on condition buggy, or is it "correct" within the boundaries of upstart's models?17:04
pittii. e. "stop smbd" -> "just don't do that"?17:04
pittiafter all, a normal boot works just fine17:05
Keybukwell, it's correct, you just can't stop/start manually17:06
Keybukthere's lots of cases that doesn't work out so well17:06
pittiok, great; I was just worried about that bit17:07
pittiKeybuk: thanks a lot for the explanation! (I'm sure you already gave it like 20 times to people, sorry)17:07
Keybukthat's ok, I enjoy giving it :p17:08
psusiwhy can't you stop smbd?17:08
sladenfta: me neither, and nobody who seems to be able to replicate it17:09
psusisounds like you want cups to be stop on smbd stopping17:09
pittiugh, final freeze already?17:09
Keybukpsusi: wouldn't help - see above17:09
pittipsusi: no, I don't want that actually17:10
sladenpitti: stole two weeks17:10
pittipsusi: the only point of that dependency is that samba can pick up cups printers to the windows network, but otherwise they are quite independent17:10
tkamppeterpitti, Thursday, and I would very much like CUPS/Samba to work then and Jockey to be uploaded.17:10
psusiso why does stop smbd cause a problem?17:11
Keybukit doesn't17:12
Keybukit's start smbd17:12
psusiwhy is that a problem?17:13
macocould a core dev sponsor this?  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/ubuntu/maverick/language-support-fonts-zh-hans/fix-625163/+merge/33977  the patch looks fine to me17:13
cjwatsonhm, language-support-fonts-* is generated by lp:langpack-o-matic17:13
cjwatsonif that patch is sponsored, it'll be overwritten at the next autogeneration17:13
pittitkamppeter: right, so I'll get that cups uploaded now, and will put jockey on my plate for tomorrow morning17:14
cjwatson(I've said that in the review)17:14
Keybukpsusi: go read above17:15
KeybukI explain it pretty carefully17:15
cjwatsonmaco: (also there seems to be some subsequent? conversation in the bug)17:16
=== spike_ is now known as spikeC
=== jono-phone is now known as jono
macocjwatson: oh ok. hrm why do bugs link to matching branches but branches dont link to matching bugs? how silly...17:18
psusiohh... so smbd is tied to cups, but cups is also tied to filesystem, so when smbd tries to pull cups onto the belt, it gets stuck because filesystem isn't also pulling17:18
psusiso no masher for smbd17:18
macocjwatson: what about the part of the patch that adds an additional font to the metapackage's dependencies?17:18
=== spikeC is now known as spike_
cjwatsonmaco: extra dependencies are fine, but there's a special file in lp:langpack-o-matic listing that stuff17:19
cjwatsonsupport-depends/maverick/zh-hans, I believe17:19
macooh so both the symlinks /and/ depends are handled in there. magic.17:20
=== spike_ is now known as spikeWRK
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
didrockspitti: did you see my hilight on Quickly and FFe? (bug #638130)17:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 638130 in quickly (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Quickly 0.6 in maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63813017:32
pittididrocks: I didn't, no; probably got lost in the meeting marathon17:33
didrockspitti: no hurry but as I won't be there then until Friday… :)17:33
nigelbjames_w: can you package training session on 23rd? (currently its maco, but I'm wonder if you could switch with ther)17:35
mathiazScottK: hi!17:44
mathiazScottK: what is the next step for bug 638213?17:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 638213 in lucid-backports "Please backport puppet 2.6.1-0ubuntu1 from maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63821317:44
lamontogra: NCommander: please don't change buildlive to email me.  I already get SMSed when the machine is down, as do others.  and then we have someone power cycle the machine when they're in the data center17:49
lamontogra: NCommander: if you want a productive task, get me some machines that I can power cycle remotely17:52
ogralamont, yeah, i thought so17:52
ogralamont, you will get them in november or december17:52
ograwe're working on that17:53
lamontI mean, sadly, it's one of those "yep, this is gonna suck" SMSes that I get all to frequently17:53
ografirst we need stable HW and an OS running on it ;)17:53
lamonthey yeah, that'd be just dandy!17:53
ograwhich will be there areoung maverick release date17:53
ograthen we'll just wait for some mass production :)17:54
lamontif it requires maverick for stability, I can live with that.  Just as long as lucid still builds with maverick underneath, of course.17:54
ograthe HW we currently work on builds a kernel in 2.5h17:55
ogra(current buildd time is 6h)17:55
lamontThe following packages will be REMOVED:17:55
ograand thats on a rotary disk ... with USB SSD that should speed up even more17:55
lamont  hplip17:55
lamontthat's not very nice of it17:55
ograsadly no SATA yet17:55
didrockscjwatson: ok, so pitti got sidetrack about the Quickly FFe and Riddel is on vacation, can you have a look please? (bug #638130). I'll be back only on Friday and I would prefer pushing the new release before final freeze17:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 638130 in quickly (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Quickly 0.6 in maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63813017:58
didrocks(or ScottK, if you are around)17:59
james_wnigelb: I'd be happy to if maco is18:10
nigelbjames_w: she's inconvinienced on 23rd, hence the chance18:10
james_wnigelb: then I'm fine with it18:11
nigelbmaco: you're okay with 30th?18:11
maconigelb: yeah18:12
nigelbmaco, james_w: thank you.  You both rock :)18:12
nigelbjames_w and maco: er preferred time? (sorry!)18:16
james_wnigelb: are we still trying for the rotation of times, or just mixing it up/18:17
nigelbjames_w: right now, the focus is filling it up according to nhandler :)18:17
james_wI would go for something like 20:00 UTC then18:18
SpamapSjames_w: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/memcached.html#2010-06-09 01:31:43.802534  .. any ideas whats up with that?18:22
james_wSpamapS: caused by LP downtime presumably, retried and marked as a spurious failure so that it will be auto-retried next time18:24
SpamapSjames_w: ah, so sometimes things just get stuck as broken, and have to be manually un-stuck?18:25
nigelbjames_w: do you have a name for your session?18:27
james_wSpamapS: yeah, the way it works is that if the job crashes for any reason it has to be reviewed to check for bugs/abuse of the other systems.18:28
james_wSpamapS: however there is a way to mark specific failures as probably-spurious and have them retried a number of times automatically without review18:28
james_wnigelb: not yet, I haven't decided what I am going to talk about18:29
james_wnigelb: suggestions welcome18:29
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== jono_ is now known as jono
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
papertigersanyone know if those apple magic trackpad drivers in 10.10 work for the touchpad on the laptops?19:31
shadeslayerjono: free for a sec?19:36
jonoshadeslayer, sure19:36
shadeslayerjono: i was wondering if theres a tentative date by which the participants for UDS are confirmed19:36
shadeslayer( ive applied and it takes some time for visa's to be approved here )19:37
jonoshadeslayer, over the next week or so19:39
jonohopefully this week19:39
shadeslayeroh great .. thanks alot :D19:40
shadeslayernight everyone :)19:40
=== isaac is now known as bYz4nt1n3
=== bYz4nt1n3 is now known as Intrusion
Intrusionhey there... I have a question19:47
IntrusionI am wondering if there is a good place for a total newbie to learn development within the ubuntu community19:48
Intrusionis there a small project that I could tinker with?19:48
Intrusionsomething low priority, but helpful for someone who wants to hone my programming skills19:49
IntrusionI am wondering if there is a good place for a total newbie to learn development within the ubuntu community19:53
Intrusionsomething low priority, but helpful for someone who wants to hone my programming skills19:53
sladenIntrusion: in about 3 weeks there will be lots of development things to work on.  At the moment Ubuntu is solidly bug fixing until release19:56
Intrusionis there a good place to stay up to speed with what needs to be done19:56
sladenIntrusion: -> #ubuntu-motu19:57
Intrusionok... I will go and check in there19:58
Intrusionthanks a lot for the help19:58
hallynfeh!  command history misfire.  is there a 'bzr undelete' ?19:58
nigelbhallyn: what are you trying to achieve/20:01
hallynheh, i did a bunch of valid 'bzr removes', then an invalid one20:03
hallynnm, i copied it back from elsewhere and re-'bzr add'ed it20:03
shadeslayerhallyn: have you pushed the changes ?20:03
hallynno, but i hadn't committed and didn't want to re-do all the other uncommitted changes20:04
shadeslayerbzr revert ?20:04
* hallyn would be more effective once he figured out how to do git-like cheap local branches followed by rebase -i20:04
hallyncan i revert one 'bzr remove'?20:05
shadeslayeror is that only after you commit changes?20:05
shadeslayerhallyn: dunno.. might be able to.. #bzr would know20:05
hallynnot sure20:05
nigelbhallyn: heh, can't revert bzr remove unless you've commited20:05
nigelb(I think so)20:06
hallynok, i might play around so i know for next time, and/or go ask there, thx20:06
shadeslayergit is the best for this sort of stuff :D20:06
hallynwell as i was typing that, it occurred to me i shoudl actually be able to do something close to that20:07
hallyndo a local 'bzr branch', commit after every little change, then do a merge -r1..20 in the main branch when i'm done20:07
hallynnot *quite* as convenient as git rebase -i, but doable20:07
* hallyn goes to try20:07
beunohallyn, bzr rm --keep20:08
beunoerm, ignore that20:08
beunoyou can cat20:08
beunoso bzr cat FILENAME -r $revision20:08
hallynbuxy: so 'bzr cat FILENAME -r $revision > FILENAME' ? :)20:11
hallynuh, huh20:11
hallynbeuno: ^20:11
hallynapparently i shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard today20:11
beunohallyn, yes, that should recover a file in your history20:12
beunoI jumped in an didn't read things carefully20:12
beunoso it may not be what you want  :)20:12
bilalakhtar_mvo: Should I go ahead with fixing bug #367287 ?20:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 367287 in ubuntu-restricted-extras (Ubuntu) "kubuntu-restricted-extras should depend on lame" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36728720:29
mvobilalakhtar_: yes20:29
bilalakhtar_mvo: I asked you, since you're maint :_20:30
macobilalakhtar_: hint: before requesting anything of mvo, always offer tea20:31
* bilalakhtar_ offers mvo tea20:31
=== bilalakhtar_ is now known as bilalakhtar
* mvo is on the phone so a bit slow20:31
=== ivoks is now known as ivoks-afk
cr3marjo_: did you see my private messages to you, marjo (without trailing underscore)?20:40
sladenwhat was the name of the third-party installed that then installed lots of non-free codecs and stuff?21:44
lifelessmediabuntu or something?21:45
nigelbsladen: ubuntu-restricted-extras or mediaubuntu ones?21:46
sladennigelb: no, no, the godforsaken piece of nightmare that even Michael Dell unfortunately recommended people use21:47
ajmitch_ I think that's the one21:48
ajmitch_it was quite popular & caused a lot of headaches21:48
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
=== ajmitch_ is now known as ajmitch
nigelbsladen: james_w was right, http://www.getautomatix.com/21:49
sladenautomatix, yup.  Thank you nigelb and james_w!21:49
* nigelb only googled :D21:49
nigelbjames did the work:)21:49
dylan-msladen: Careful with that, you might trigger its rebirth.21:52
nigelbthe site is out right now21:53
nigelbsladen: ultramatix is probably the one that works now21:54
dylan-mIts successor is actually ultamatix <http://ultamatix.com/>. I think automatix is gone at this point.21:54
sorenslangasek: Got a sec? I'm looking at the stuff you did with bridge-utils for Lucid.21:56
sorenslangasek: I'm curious what is meant to happen if "ifup br0" is called and br0 has a an interface listed in bridge_port that isn't around yet.21:58
sorenslangasek: Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but looking at /usr/share/bridge-utils/ifupdown.sh from line 58 and onwards, it seems it just assumes the interface is around and attempts to add it and doesn't handle failure to do so.21:59
sorenslangasek: I'm asking because someone posted this and I got curious: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2010-September/004619.html22:00
=== mdeslaur_ is now known as mdeslaur
=== spike_ is now known as spikeWRK
nigelbjames_w & maco: http://people.ubuntu.com/~nhandler/classroom.html22:49
nigelbplease do confirm that the time is suitable for you22:49
nigelberr, when does daylight savings change? not yet right?22:50
james_wnigelb: I don't know actually22:52
nigelbOctober :)22:53
sorennigelb: Depends on wher eyou live.22:53
macoer i meant 1900 UTC, not GMT22:53
nigelbsoren: We're smart enough not to have it :p22:53
rickspencer3hey all22:54
macoer hrmph confusing22:54
macojames_w: does GMT move with BST or stay one second off of UTC always?22:54
macohiya rickspencer322:54
rickspencer3I'm trying to log a bug, I think it should be against the package that contains the following file: /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.25.15/gobject/gtype.c22:54
james_wmaco: GMT doesn't move22:54
macojames_w: oh ok then22:55
rickspencer3how do I find out what package this file is in?22:55
macorickspencer3: dpkg -S <path>22:55
rickspencer3(doing my best based on Python output)22:55
macorickspencer3: if the package is installed that is. if not, apt-file search <file>22:55
ajmitchrickspencer3: it's in the filename there, should be glib2.022:55
macoajmitch: aw but my way he learns how to find things himself :P22:55
rickspencer3well, lot of packages seem to answer to the call of glib2.022:55
rickspencer3so, just trying to narrow it down22:56
kklimondarickspencer3: this is a part of libglib2.0-022:56
rickspencer3thanks maco, ajmitch, and kklimonda22:56
kklimondarickspencer3: but I'm not sure if your crash isn't related to something higher - maybe pygtk would be a better guess? still a guess though22:57
ajmitchit's useful having the package name in the build path :)22:57
rickspencer3kklimonda, well, the warning looks glib(ish)22:57
rickspencer3but what the heck do I know22:57
kklimondarickspencer3: sure, it's a warning from glib - but I wonder why did it show.22:58
rickspencer3kklimonda, something in PyGtk22:58
rickspencer3I'll upload a reproducer22:58
rickspencer3kklimonda, do you think PyGtk is a better bet?22:58
rickspencer3grid_filter.py:797: Warning: /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.25.15/gobject/gtype.c:4181: type id `0' is invalid22:59
rickspencer3  gtk.main()22:59
rickspencer3grid_filter.py:797: Warning: can't peek value table for type `<invalid>' which is not currently referenced22:59
kklimondarickspencer3: oh, you have a small test case? then report it against glib and someone will triage it :)22:59
rickspencer3kklimonda, it's smallish ;)22:59
=== emma_ is now known as emma
slangaseksoren: so I don't know that 'ifup br0' is handled particularly well, honestly; I don't think manual bring-up of bridge interfaces was on my radar, the changes were focused on fixing the auto-start case23:58
* slangasek pulls up the link23:58

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