flanjenkins needs more clearing his inbox.01:21
=== loonycookie is now known as aprilg
=== loonycookie is now known as aprilg
=== loonycookie is now known as aprilg
dakeraloha everybody11:40
popeyhows the manual coming along?11:45
dakerpopey, i think the manual team is less motivated than before11:47
nisshhdaker: i think our activity and motivation has been lower because humphreybc hasnt been around to motivate us as much11:48
dakernisshh, +111:48
thorwilrather typical 2nd iteration issue11:49
nisshhdaker: i was talking to ben yesterday and he said he feels really guilty about not being around much, but apparently he is insanely busy11:50
dakerpoor ben11:56
nisshhheh, yea11:56
vishnisshh: well, its more that everyone's priority has shifted .. ;)11:57
bilalakhtarWhy is ben busy?11:57
nisshhvish: yes, that too i imagine11:57
bilalakhtarBusy in tweeting?11:57
popeyit's a shame really11:57
dakerbilalakhtar, ya maybe11:57
popeywe saw this coming before the project even started11:57
vishpopey: :)11:57
* bilalakhtar just saw his tweets11:57
bilalakhtarpopey: :D11:57
nisshhbilalakhtar: he didnt say, but i think its just a lot of stuff going on for him11:57
popeywell, its school time for him11:57
bilalakhtarTo say, he hates Ubuntu some times11:58
popeyit was holiday last cycle11:58
nisshhpopey: yea, thats true, im at college right now also, so he would be too11:58
bilalakhtarhumphreybc: non-existant ping11:58
* bilalakhtar is enjoying the school vacations11:59
* daker has a lot staff to for Ubuntu11:59
dakeroh :s12:01
dakerso we need this meeting asap12:03
dakerwe have less than 4weeks12:03
popeyeven less than that :)12:04
=== Zeike is now known as brandonj
* jenkins endures the pain of slow svn reops19:36
nisshhjenkins: ah while your here, have you done any more work on the dev manual?19:48
nisshhand i also need to talk to you about quickshot for the dev manual19:48
* jenkins hides19:48
jenkinsno i had not forgotten but I have not done any19:48
jenkinsfeel free to finish it if you wish. I am happy to do it19:49
nisshhjenkins: ok, thats cool19:49
jenkinsbut could not set a date on it19:49
nisshhthats fine19:49
jenkinsnear future, cool19:49
nisshhjenkins: you are still planning on doing it though?19:49
nisshhcool, thats what i was hoping19:49
jenkinsI just took over a scout group here which is giving me plenty to do :)19:50
nisshhjenkins: now about quickshot19:50
jenkinsits released but no one knows what screenshots are need this release19:50
nisshhsometime before the end of this year, we are going to need screenshots for the dev manual19:50
jenkinso right thats cool quickshot is easy to set up for other projects now19:51
nisshhjenkins: but, dont the screenshots get uploaded to a server?19:51
nisshhproblem is, i dont have a server19:51
nisshhjenkins: godbyk's server is being used atm right?19:52
nisshhfor the manual screenshots?19:52
jenkinsyep you can then approve them in the server interface. Hmm you will have to  find someone who does. Well we have not installed the latest on kevins server unless flan has helped with that. We are still using the dev server (flans)19:52
nisshhah ok19:53
nisshhjenkins: im sure godbyk would agree to host both manuals screenshots19:53
jenkinsyea as long as we take them down asap after apporving to save space19:53
nisshhonce its all setup with the new version19:53
nisshhjenkins: the dev manual should have far less screenshots than the other manual19:54
nisshhwe will probably have < 2019:55
jenkinsthats good19:55
nisshhjenkins: also, dont worry too much about getting your chapters done too soon, we wont get a maverick release of the dev manual out anyway19:56
jenkinsk I will do it19:56
nisshhwhich is a shame, but its ok19:56
jenkinsthis could be fun I need to work out how to leave my laptop running connected to the wifi for 3~4 days solid with out my parents finding out or mavrick crashing20:07
nisshhjenkins: just hope your parents are complete idiots when it comes to computers20:08
jenkinsthey are but they are likly to notice my laptop getting hot with light flashing. My dad loves saving electricity20:09
nisshhjenkins: oh man, yea, my parents dont like me having my computer on when its not doing anything20:10
jenkinsi also think maverick may not last as long, hopefully you can recover svn dowloads20:11
jenkinsI have worked it out its banshee that is casuing my pc issues20:27
=== bilalakhtar_ is now known as bilalakhtar
nisshhhey daker :)20:49
jenkinshey daker20:52
dakerjenkins, hi i use fr as a default language, how can i run qs with "en" as default language without touching my default language20:55
jenkinsdaker: I will set up fr as a lanugae on the server for you20:55
dakerjenkins, cool20:55
dakerjenkins, fr_FR20:56
jenkinsflan can we make it so that they server allows you to do any language? so that we don't need to create an entry every time?20:56
jenkinsthanks daker20:56
jenkinsI have added fr an en is down for english and that works for me ( en_Gb)20:57
dakerjenkins, works20:58
jenkinsits true http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/the-new-ubuntu-10-10-default-wallpaper/21:10
sebsebsebjenkins: now we won't be off topic21:14
jenkinslol, I was kinda expecting that supprised we got away with it for so long21:15
sebsebseband ah yeah there was and now is, a second vrsion of the manual for Lucid21:15
sebsebsebjenkins: well guntburt isn't an op, but  he was right, we were off otpic21:15
jenkinsyep maverick is on its way,21:15
jenkinsyea he was right :)21:15
=== Zeike is now known as brandonj
jenkinshow are you finding mavrick?21:16
sebsebsebjenkins: well Mandriva for me on here since November :)21:16
sebsebsebgetting a bit bored of this current version, since didn't change much since the previous21:16
sebsebseband I have done some 10.10 virtual machine trying21:17
sebsebsebdesktop edition, even tried to do Unity, but nah21:17
sebsebsebUnity doesn't like virtual machines21:17
sebsebsebit also doesn't like  Nivida cards without the propritary driver21:17
jenkinsI see, I am not a fan of unity it does not like my laptop its very SLOW on here. my laptop is of a reasonable spec21:17
sebsebseband its really for a netbook, but can run it on a desktop,  jono said he has21:17
sebsebsebalso apparently its not that stable at the moment21:18
jenkinsI had the propritary driver installed and still slow21:18
sebsebsebjenkins: a normal lap top?21:18
jenkinsyep 2.1 ghz dual core 2 gb ram21:18
sebsebsebI haven't been that keen on Ubuntu since 9.04,  don't like it that much anymore, but21:18
sebsebsebI do want to try Unity some how, and I  might have to install it on real hardware to do that21:19
sebsebsebunless the Live CD works on a lap top we have here21:19
jenkinsunity frustrating. It looks good better looking than gnome 3 at the moment. but I could not find very much of the systems menu or any wine stuff21:19
sebsebsebjenkins: and yeah if I put Ubuntu back on here, with 10.10 this time round,  I don't think it would last that long,  because there are plenty of other good distros out there, that are more for me, that would all be good to run on real hardware in my case21:20
sebsebsebI been running Gnome Shell  on a pretty much daily basis, in my Mandriva 2010.1  since I upgraded it from 2010.021:20
jenkinsI tried fedora again, but I actually like all the ubuntu mods to gnome memenu etc. I appear to use them as I missed them when in fedora21:21
sebsebsebyes its the slightly older version, the version from March,  but  yeah its alright, does lack features at the moment, but I quite like it21:21
sebsebsebespesially how it shows apps21:21
sebsebsebI don't like the downstreame Ubuntu only Gnome changes, however21:21
jenkinsI keep testing gnome 3 but I will have to wait untill it is out as I am not convinced yet21:21
sebsebsebI seem to be ok with the sound menu, which I haven't tried with actsaul music yet21:21
sebsebsebI have had the sound menu in vm of  course, and seen video of it as well and such21:22
jenkinsI have not used the sound menu as I use banshee apart form when it eats mylaptop21:22
sebsebseband yeah exactly soudn menu doesn't work with Banshee yet?21:22
sebsebseblast.fm  support in Banshee has been broken for me in this distro ever since I started using it, which is ashame really, but ah well21:23
jenkinswell there is a devlopment version with support form it but that has not been released yet. I am trying to avoid ppas at the  moment21:23
sebsebseband well I done every Ubuntu release since the second release in 2005, on real hardware, so why not 10.10 as well21:23
sebsebseband  like I say I want to try Unity on this desktop21:23
sebsebsebalso the whole ppa thing with Ubuntu, thats something I never did like much at all21:24
jenkinsI don't really use last fm not seen the point really21:24
sebsebseband ppa's can mess up peoples system as well21:24
jenkinsppas are needed as the packages are not updated enough. but like you say they can be a pain21:24
sebsebsebso I hope the manual isn't recommending to use ppa's at all :)21:24
sebsebsebdistros such as PC Linux OS are rolling releases though,  and nice and user friendly, since the nice graphical Mandriva Control centre and such,  since it was a fork to begin with21:25
sebsebsebso yeah OpenShot and other dsitros21:25
jenkinsI don;t think it is after all it is a begineers manual21:25
jenkinsI would like a rolling release effect in ubuntu21:25
sebsebsebmaybe PCLinuxOS would add to their repos for example, I mean I even know a guy online and quite well, who  was really into Mandriva, and now is more about PC Linux OS, and has been doing packaging for them for quite a while as well21:26
sebsebsebso it seems he just packages whatever he wants basically, and ends up in the PC Linux OS repos21:26
jenkinsquickshot maybe?21:26
sebsebsebjenkins: exactly21:26
sebsebsebthats wht I mean21:26
sebsebsebjenkins: however this particular guy also  doesn't like Ubuntu much at all, but even so he might do it21:26
jenkinsthat would be great, we have not really tested it this release as it only came out two days ago. so may be a while yet21:27
jenkinswe did a complete rewrite as the last one was done in a month21:27
sebsebsebjenkins: well he packages what they want for PC Linux OS, and then other people take it apart, and check that its not malicious or something21:29
sebsebsebwhat he wants above, not they21:30
jenkinsI will give you a shout when we are happy it is tested enough and we can see if he will include it. Is there a pc os docs team?21:31
sebsebsebjenkins: I don't know that much about how they make PC Linux OS, but the IRC is nice,  and support tends to be done on the forum and such, can can talk devs and yeah :)21:32
sebsebsebcan talk to devs21:32
jenkinsI will go and have a chat with them some time21:33
sebsebsebjenkins: well good luck I guess,  a lot of people who use other distros, don't like Ubuntu much at all21:34
sebsebsebsince how things are with it at the moment21:34
sebsebsebjenkins: downstream Gnome patching,  copyright assignment, and yeah21:34
jenkinsyea well it could prove fun but we will have to see our logo and icons are no longer ubuntu releate21:35
sebsebsebjenkins: however21:35
sebsebsebjenkins: yeah apps should be cross distro really21:35
jenkinshttps://edge.launchpad.net/quickshot has out logo . yep that was one of our aims this releas21:35
sebsebsebjenkins: oh an own logo, instead of Ubuntu logo you mean?21:36
sebsebsebjenkins: well yeah thats good, make apps for well loads of distros, not a particular distro :)21:36
jenkinsyea the other one was for one release only21:37
sebsebsebjenkins: with  these Ubuntu only Gnome changes though21:37
sebsebsebthat are being done21:37
sebsebsebeven getting people going on the Gnome IRC asking about them, which isn't good21:38
jenkinsreally what do they ask about them?21:38
sebsebsebjenkins: oh I don't go there, but another guy who does, has been copying in some stuff from there recently21:38
jenkinspeople getting problems with it?21:39
sebsebsebjenkins: people are obviously confussed that the sound menu,  me menu,  unity, and what not21:39
sebsebsebnone of that is Gnome21:39
sebsebsebjenkins: in fact heres a great idea,  the manual  when mentioning Gnome,  should ideally mention, how a lot of changes  to Ubuntu,  aren't part of upstream Gnome21:40
jenkinswe would probably confuse people telling them abou all the different projects21:40
sebsebsebjenkins: this is only the start,  Ubuntu  with Gnome 2 has already become quite differnet to upstream Gnome21:40
sebsebsebjenkins:  maybe, but people are obviously  don't know, if going to Gnome network, asking about Ubuntu changes21:41
jenkinspersonally I think they are good improvements, but i do think there should be more colaberation21:41
sebsebsebjenkins: personally I think most of it sucks,  but thats since I don't want it personalley21:41
sebsebseband how also  you know shut down in system menu21:42
sebsebseband auto shutdown after a minute, is removed21:42
sebsebsebwhen  that stuff is enabled, lame really want to shut down or restart messages insead, and that kind of thing.  and shut down on the right and all that. uh21:42
sebsebsebGnome 3 will also be shutting down on the right though, but for Gnome 2 really its meant to be like before,  with shut down and log out in sysem menu, and the automatic  shut down feature after a minute.21:43
jenkinswell i would never wait 60 seconds i just hit ok. I saw no point of 60 secons21:43
sebsebsebjenkins:  anyway stuff like that,  that does get at me, I think about it,  and how  with a message instead asking if want to shut down or re start, and the shut down feature on the right instead of system menu,  is probably more user friendly really, because21:43
sebsebsebwell how often do people go the system menu in Ubuntu these days anyway?   and the name and all that on the right, looks user friendly?  and  yeah the being asked if want to shut down or re start, is user friendly as well21:44
sebsebsebplus with the me menu, and sound menu, and whatever, on the top there, people will be used to going to the top right to do stuff21:44
jenkinsI do agree the system menu is rarely used21:44
sebsebsebjenkins: espesailly now with Software Centre, most users won't be going to Synaptic21:45
sebsebsebjenkins: also before I would put the Gnome icons on, the old Gnome icons,  make the icons show on the system menu,  with shut down and log out there21:45
sebsebsebI didn't like most of the Ubuntu icons, but Gnome ones yeah,  however now21:45
jenkinsI like synaptic but it is complex for adding programs if you are new to ubuntu21:46
sebsebseb10.10 will also get these newer Gnome icons for that, which I don't like, except for log out which improed,  shut down has gone horrible.  and yeah by default icons aren't showing in system menu anyway, so most users woudn't even see, what I was just on about21:46
sebsebsebjenkins: PC Linux OS also has Synaptic by the way, and with APT RPM, so a bit differnet to apt  in Ubuntu and Debian21:46
sebsebsebSynaptic is a program I miss when using Mandriva, and it seems I can't just install it into this distro either21:47
sebsebsebI got to used to using it in Ubuntu for years, so yeah21:47
jenkinsI have not tried other distros much21:47
sebsebsebjenkins: people don't like how Ubuntu are doing their own indicators now as well21:47
sebsebseband stuff like that21:47
jenkinsI think that they tried to work with gnome but they said they wanted to create them their own way. or thatw what i recall21:48
sebsebsebjenkins: and certain people are worried that Ubuntu will  end up doing to many changes to Gnome, and so basically fork it, well they kind of  have already, and that kind of thing21:48
sebsebsebjenkins: and some people wonder if Ubuntu will use Gnome Shell, or will instead find some excuse to use Unity in desktop edition as well, for example sound menu and such not being able to be ported over easilly21:49
jenkinsI guess we will have to wait and see21:49
sebsebsebjenkins: Ubuntu is the most liked distro  on the desktop, but also the most hated/disliked21:49
sebsebsebjenkins: pretty much everyone who uses another distro, doesn't like Ubuntu much  these days, it seems21:49
sebsebsebjenkins: not including distros based on Ubuntu of course21:50
sebsebsebjenkins: and yeah exactly we have to see21:50
jenkinsof course. Each to their own.21:50
sebsebsebjenkins: well 2011 should be an interesting year for Desktop Linux :)21:50
jenkinsdon't we say that every year?21:51
sebsebsebjenkins: I guess so, but I mean since Gnome 321:51
jenkinsyea i got what you ment :)21:51
sebsebsebjenkins: and then yeah the whole Mono thing, a lot of people are worried about and all that as well21:52
jenkinsI have no opinion on mono for some reason. I know why people don't like it21:52
sebsebsebjenkins: its pretty awesome all this really though,  the choice of distros, and programs in them, and all these communites as well as part of that, and all that21:52
jenkinsthe choice is great21:53
sebsebsebhowever people don't always agree with each other, so sometimes issues as a result21:53
sebsebsebjenkins: I am not that keen on those  Ubuntu Gnome patches as I was saying, but uhmm21:53
sebsebsebI mean what features does  the average end user see when it comes to Gnome?21:53
sebsebsebI mean changes in the recent releasese21:53
sebsebsebjenkins: what noticeable end user is there?  well nothing really?  except for the background changer effect that got introduced in 9.04 when it comes to Ubuntu21:54
sebsebsebknow what I mean?21:54
sebsebsebnoticleabe end user features,  not much from Gnome, but  Ubuntu has done some.   and a lot of new users from Windows and Mac OS X, will expect a lot of new features21:54
jenkinsubuntu has got faster21:54
jenkinsI don't know loads about raw gnome21:55
sebsebsebyes Ubuntu will annoy some of us, because of the direction it is currently going in, but hey plenty of other distros we can use instead :)21:55
jenkinsthey are working hard on gnome 321:55
sebsebsebI have mixed views when it comes to Ubuntu since 9.04,  negative and postive,  but even so21:56
sebsebsebi'll help newbies with it here and there, and follow whats going on, and try development versions21:56
jenkinscool, i should go to bed as I will fall asleep at work if i do not21:56
sebsebsebjenkins: oh I was just going to finnish this off with a nice conclusion21:57
nisshhi dislike where ubuntu is going as well21:57
jenkinsk carry on21:57
sebsebsebjenkins: which also brings things back a little bit more on topic for this channel21:57
jenkinsgo on21:58
sebsebsebjenkins: However better people use Ubuntu than Windows or Mac OS X really, so Ubuntu Manual project is a good project to help with this21:58
jenkinsyey ubuntu is good \o/21:58
sebsebsebjenkins: when it works21:58
sebsebsebjenkins: on sometimes computer, without hardware issues sure, and just works21:58
sebsebsebif not a lot will think Linux sucks, and a lot won't try other distros instead, where there hardware may work better21:59
jenkinsi have not had any harware issues yet21:59
sebsebsebthey might try a later version of Ubuntu, but then if the same problem, oh yes, they really are going to think Linux sucks21:59
jenkinsyea I know what you mean21:59
jenkinsnight then22:00
sebsebsebnisshh: your a community member though, and you say you dislike where Ubuntu is heading, well there are other ones who think this as well, I talked to one  not that long ago on here22:00
jenkinsgood to cathc up sebsebseb22:00
sebsebsebjenkins: uh yeah I guess22:00
sebsebsebnisshh: anyway whys that?   I just been through it here, why it is for me :)22:01
sebsebsebnisshh: I think its kind of interesting that quite a few of the community memebers are  starting to dislike Ubuntu as well22:04
nisshhsebsebseb: why? because im not liking the fact that Ubuntu is getting closer and closer to Windows22:13
nisshhsure it still has all the advantages22:14
nisshhbut it should be different22:14
nisshhwe should not be making Ubuntu more like windows22:14
nisshhwe should be making it different22:14
nisshhif we make it the same, it will cripple it22:15
nisshhsebsebseb: thats my short answer, if you want a more in depth discussion, PM me :)22:15
sebsebsebnisshh: yep lets pm, and what I think and such, I guess is in the logs now22:21
nisshhsebsebseb: cool22:22
sebsebsebnisshh: well its being more more like Mac OS X really, but lets pm, if you don't want to chat about this in here of course22:25
nisshhsebsebseb: well, it just keeps the chatter out of an unrelated channel thats all22:25
sebsebsebnisshh: yep plus doesn't  end up in public logs,  which as a community memember you might not quite want, on this subject :D22:26
=== loonycookie is now known as aprilg

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