[01:21] <flan> jenkins needs more clearing his inbox.
[11:40] <daker> aloha everybody
[11:45] <thorwil> o/
[11:45] <popey> lo
[11:45] <popey> hows the manual coming along?
[11:47] <daker> popey, i think the manual team is less motivated than before
[11:48] <nisshh> daker: i think our activity and motivation has been lower because humphreybc hasnt been around to motivate us as much
[11:48] <daker> nisshh, +1
[11:49] <thorwil> rather typical 2nd iteration issue
[11:50] <nisshh> daker: i was talking to ben yesterday and he said he feels really guilty about not being around much, but apparently he is insanely busy
[11:56] <daker> poor ben
[11:56] <nisshh> heh, yea
[11:57] <vish> nisshh: well, its more that everyone's priority has shifted .. ;)
[11:57] <bilalakhtar> Why is ben busy?
[11:57] <nisshh> vish: yes, that too i imagine
[11:57] <bilalakhtar> Busy in tweeting?
[11:57] <popey> it's a shame really
[11:57] <daker> bilalakhtar, ya maybe
[11:57] <popey> we saw this coming before the project even started
[11:57] <vish> popey: :)
[11:57]  * bilalakhtar just saw his tweets
[11:57] <bilalakhtar> popey: :D
[11:57] <nisshh> bilalakhtar: he didnt say, but i think its just a lot of stuff going on for him
[11:57] <popey> well, its school time for him
[11:58] <bilalakhtar> To say, he hates Ubuntu some times
[11:58] <popey> it was holiday last cycle
[11:58] <nisshh> popey: yea, thats true, im at college right now also, so he would be too
[11:58] <bilalakhtar> humphreybc: non-existant ping
[11:58] <nisshh> heh
[11:59]  * bilalakhtar is enjoying the school vacations
[11:59]  * daker has a lot staff to for Ubuntu
[12:01] <daker> oh :s
[12:03] <daker> so we need this meeting asap
[12:03] <daker> we have less than 4weeks
[12:04] <popey> even less than that :)
[12:04] <daker> ya
[19:36]  * jenkins endures the pain of slow svn reops
[19:48] <nisshh> jenkins: ah while your here, have you done any more work on the dev manual?
[19:48] <nisshh> and i also need to talk to you about quickshot for the dev manual
[19:48]  * jenkins hides
[19:48] <nisshh> hehe
[19:48] <jenkins> no i had not forgotten but I have not done any
[19:49] <jenkins> feel free to finish it if you wish. I am happy to do it
[19:49] <nisshh> jenkins: ok, thats cool
[19:49] <jenkins> but could not set a date on it
[19:49] <nisshh> thats fine
[19:49] <jenkins> near future, cool
[19:49] <nisshh> jenkins: you are still planning on doing it though?
[19:49] <jenkins> yes
[19:49] <nisshh> cool, thats what i was hoping
[19:50] <jenkins> I just took over a scout group here which is giving me plenty to do :)
[19:50] <nisshh> right
[19:50] <nisshh> jenkins: now about quickshot
[19:50] <jenkins> yep
[19:50] <jenkins> its released but no one knows what screenshots are need this release
[19:50] <nisshh> sometime before the end of this year, we are going to need screenshots for the dev manual
[19:50] <nisshh> yea
[19:51] <jenkins> o right thats cool quickshot is easy to set up for other projects now
[19:51] <nisshh> yea
[19:51] <nisshh> jenkins: but, dont the screenshots get uploaded to a server?
[19:51] <nisshh> problem is, i dont have a server
[19:52] <nisshh> jenkins: godbyk's server is being used atm right?
[19:52] <nisshh> for the manual screenshots?
[19:52] <jenkins> yep you can then approve them in the server interface. Hmm you will have to  find someone who does. Well we have not installed the latest on kevins server unless flan has helped with that. We are still using the dev server (flans)
[19:53] <nisshh> ah ok
[19:53] <nisshh> jenkins: im sure godbyk would agree to host both manuals screenshots
[19:53] <jenkins> yea as long as we take them down asap after apporving to save space
[19:53] <nisshh> once its all setup with the new version
[19:54] <nisshh> right
[19:54] <nisshh> jenkins: the dev manual should have far less screenshots than the other manual
[19:55] <nisshh> we will probably have < 20
[19:55] <jenkins> thats good
[19:55] <nisshh> yea
[19:56] <nisshh> jenkins: also, dont worry too much about getting your chapters done too soon, we wont get a maverick release of the dev manual out anyway
[19:56] <jenkins> k I will do it
[19:56] <nisshh> which is a shame, but its ok
[20:07] <jenkins> this could be fun I need to work out how to leave my laptop running connected to the wifi for 3~4 days solid with out my parents finding out or mavrick crashing
[20:07] <nisshh> hehe
[20:08] <nisshh> jenkins: just hope your parents are complete idiots when it comes to computers
[20:09] <jenkins> they are but they are likly to notice my laptop getting hot with light flashing. My dad loves saving electricity
[20:10] <nisshh> jenkins: oh man, yea, my parents dont like me having my computer on when its not doing anything
[20:11] <jenkins> i also think maverick may not last as long, hopefully you can recover svn dowloads
[20:11] <nisshh> yea
[20:27] <jenkins> I have worked it out its banshee that is casuing my pc issues
[20:49] <daker> hi
[20:49] <nisshh> hey daker :)
[20:52] <jenkins> hey daker
[20:55] <daker> jenkins, hi i use fr as a default language, how can i run qs with "en" as default language without touching my default language
[20:55] <jenkins> daker: I will set up fr as a lanugae on the server for you
[20:55] <daker> jenkins, cool
[20:56] <daker> jenkins, fr_FR
[20:56] <jenkins> flan can we make it so that they server allows you to do any language? so that we don't need to create an entry every time?
[20:56] <jenkins> thanks daker
[20:57] <jenkins> I have added fr an en is down for english and that works for me ( en_Gb)
[20:58] <daker> jenkins, works
[20:58] <jenkins> cool
[21:10] <jenkins> its true http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/the-new-ubuntu-10-10-default-wallpaper/
[21:14] <sebsebseb> jenkins: now we won't be off topic
[21:15] <jenkins> lol, I was kinda expecting that supprised we got away with it for so long
[21:15] <sebsebseb> and ah yeah there was and now is, a second vrsion of the manual for Lucid
[21:15] <sebsebseb> jenkins: well guntburt isn't an op, but  he was right, we were off otpic
[21:15] <jenkins> yep maverick is on its way,
[21:15] <jenkins> yea he was right :)
[21:16] <jenkins> how are you finding mavrick?
[21:16] <sebsebseb> jenkins: well Mandriva for me on here since November :)
[21:16] <sebsebseb> however
[21:16] <sebsebseb> getting a bit bored of this current version, since didn't change much since the previous
[21:17] <sebsebseb> and I have done some 10.10 virtual machine trying
[21:17] <sebsebseb> desktop edition, even tried to do Unity, but nah
[21:17] <sebsebseb> Unity doesn't like virtual machines
[21:17] <sebsebseb> it also doesn't like  Nivida cards without the propritary driver
[21:17] <jenkins> I see, I am not a fan of unity it does not like my laptop its very SLOW on here. my laptop is of a reasonable spec
[21:17] <sebsebseb> and its really for a netbook, but can run it on a desktop,  jono said he has
[21:18] <sebsebseb> also apparently its not that stable at the moment
[21:18] <jenkins> I had the propritary driver installed and still slow
[21:18] <sebsebseb> jenkins: a normal lap top?
[21:18] <jenkins> yep 2.1 ghz dual core 2 gb ram
[21:18] <sebsebseb> I haven't been that keen on Ubuntu since 9.04,  don't like it that much anymore, but
[21:19] <sebsebseb> I do want to try Unity some how, and I  might have to install it on real hardware to do that
[21:19] <sebsebseb> unless the Live CD works on a lap top we have here
[21:19] <jenkins> unity frustrating. It looks good better looking than gnome 3 at the moment. but I could not find very much of the systems menu or any wine stuff
[21:20] <sebsebseb> jenkins: and yeah if I put Ubuntu back on here, with 10.10 this time round,  I don't think it would last that long,  because there are plenty of other good distros out there, that are more for me, that would all be good to run on real hardware in my case
[21:20] <sebsebseb> I been running Gnome Shell  on a pretty much daily basis, in my Mandriva 2010.1  since I upgraded it from 2010.0
[21:21] <jenkins> I tried fedora again, but I actually like all the ubuntu mods to gnome memenu etc. I appear to use them as I missed them when in fedora
[21:21] <sebsebseb> yes its the slightly older version, the version from March,  but  yeah its alright, does lack features at the moment, but I quite like it
[21:21] <sebsebseb> espesially how it shows apps
[21:21] <sebsebseb> I don't like the downstreame Ubuntu only Gnome changes, however
[21:21] <jenkins> I keep testing gnome 3 but I will have to wait untill it is out as I am not convinced yet
[21:21] <sebsebseb> I seem to be ok with the sound menu, which I haven't tried with actsaul music yet
[21:22] <sebsebseb> I have had the sound menu in vm of  course, and seen video of it as well and such
[21:22] <jenkins> I have not used the sound menu as I use banshee apart form when it eats mylaptop
[21:22] <sebsebseb> and yeah exactly soudn menu doesn't work with Banshee yet?
[21:23] <sebsebseb> last.fm  support in Banshee has been broken for me in this distro ever since I started using it, which is ashame really, but ah well
[21:23] <jenkins> well there is a devlopment version with support form it but that has not been released yet. I am trying to avoid ppas at the  moment
[21:23] <sebsebseb> and well I done every Ubuntu release since the second release in 2005, on real hardware, so why not 10.10 as well
[21:23] <sebsebseb> and  like I say I want to try Unity on this desktop
[21:24] <sebsebseb> also the whole ppa thing with Ubuntu, thats something I never did like much at all
[21:24] <jenkins> I don't really use last fm not seen the point really
[21:24] <sebsebseb> and ppa's can mess up peoples system as well
[21:24] <jenkins> ppas are needed as the packages are not updated enough. but like you say they can be a pain
[21:24] <sebsebseb> so I hope the manual isn't recommending to use ppa's at all :)
[21:25] <sebsebseb> distros such as PC Linux OS are rolling releases though,  and nice and user friendly, since the nice graphical Mandriva Control centre and such,  since it was a fork to begin with
[21:25] <sebsebseb> so yeah OpenShot and other dsitros
[21:25] <jenkins> I don;t think it is after all it is a begineers manual
[21:25] <jenkins> I would like a rolling release effect in ubuntu
[21:26] <sebsebseb> maybe PCLinuxOS would add to their repos for example, I mean I even know a guy online and quite well, who  was really into Mandriva, and now is more about PC Linux OS, and has been doing packaging for them for quite a while as well
[21:26] <sebsebseb> so it seems he just packages whatever he wants basically, and ends up in the PC Linux OS repos
[21:26] <jenkins> quickshot maybe?
[21:26] <sebsebseb> jenkins: exactly
[21:26] <sebsebseb> thats wht I mean
[21:26] <sebsebseb> jenkins: however this particular guy also  doesn't like Ubuntu much at all, but even so he might do it
[21:27] <jenkins> that would be great, we have not really tested it this release as it only came out two days ago. so may be a while yet
[21:27] <jenkins> we did a complete rewrite as the last one was done in a month
[21:28] <jenkins> brb
[21:29] <sebsebseb> jenkins: well he packages what they want for PC Linux OS, and then other people take it apart, and check that its not malicious or something
[21:30] <sebsebseb> what he wants above, not they
[21:31] <jenkins> I will give you a shout when we are happy it is tested enough and we can see if he will include it. Is there a pc os docs team?
[21:32] <sebsebseb> jenkins: I don't know that much about how they make PC Linux OS, but the IRC is nice,  and support tends to be done on the forum and such, can can talk devs and yeah :)
[21:32] <sebsebseb> can talk to devs
[21:33] <jenkins> I will go and have a chat with them some time
[21:34] <sebsebseb> jenkins: well good luck I guess,  a lot of people who use other distros, don't like Ubuntu much at all
[21:34] <sebsebseb> since how things are with it at the moment
[21:34] <sebsebseb> jenkins: downstream Gnome patching,  copyright assignment, and yeah
[21:35] <jenkins> yea well it could prove fun but we will have to see our logo and icons are no longer ubuntu releate
[21:35] <jenkins> d
[21:35] <sebsebseb> jenkins: however
[21:35] <sebsebseb> jenkins: yeah apps should be cross distro really
[21:35] <jenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/quickshot has out logo . yep that was one of our aims this releas
[21:36] <jenkins> *our
[21:36] <sebsebseb> jenkins: oh an own logo, instead of Ubuntu logo you mean?
[21:36] <sebsebseb> jenkins: well yeah thats good, make apps for well loads of distros, not a particular distro :)
[21:37] <jenkins> yea the other one was for one release only
[21:37] <sebsebseb> jenkins: with  these Ubuntu only Gnome changes though
[21:37] <sebsebseb> that are being done
[21:38] <sebsebseb> even getting people going on the Gnome IRC asking about them, which isn't good
[21:38] <jenkins> really what do they ask about them?
[21:38] <sebsebseb> jenkins: oh I don't go there, but another guy who does, has been copying in some stuff from there recently
[21:39] <jenkins> people getting problems with it?
[21:39] <sebsebseb> jenkins: people are obviously confussed that the sound menu,  me menu,  unity, and what not
[21:39] <sebsebseb> none of that is Gnome
[21:40] <sebsebseb> jenkins: in fact heres a great idea,  the manual  when mentioning Gnome,  should ideally mention, how a lot of changes  to Ubuntu,  aren't part of upstream Gnome
[21:40] <jenkins> we would probably confuse people telling them abou all the different projects
[21:40] <sebsebseb> jenkins: this is only the start,  Ubuntu  with Gnome 2 has already become quite differnet to upstream Gnome
[21:41] <sebsebseb> jenkins:  maybe, but people are obviously  don't know, if going to Gnome network, asking about Ubuntu changes
[21:41] <jenkins> personally I think they are good improvements, but i do think there should be more colaberation
[21:41] <sebsebseb> jenkins: personally I think most of it sucks,  but thats since I don't want it personalley
[21:42] <sebsebseb> and how also  you know shut down in system menu
[21:42] <sebsebseb> and auto shutdown after a minute, is removed
[21:42] <sebsebseb> when  that stuff is enabled, lame really want to shut down or restart messages insead, and that kind of thing.  and shut down on the right and all that. uh
[21:43] <sebsebseb> Gnome 3 will also be shutting down on the right though, but for Gnome 2 really its meant to be like before,  with shut down and log out in sysem menu, and the automatic  shut down feature after a minute.
[21:43] <jenkins> well i would never wait 60 seconds i just hit ok. I saw no point of 60 secons
[21:43] <jenkins> *seconds
[21:43] <sebsebseb> jenkins:  anyway stuff like that,  that does get at me, I think about it,  and how  with a message instead asking if want to shut down or re start, and the shut down feature on the right instead of system menu,  is probably more user friendly really, because
[21:44] <sebsebseb> well how often do people go the system menu in Ubuntu these days anyway?   and the name and all that on the right, looks user friendly?  and  yeah the being asked if want to shut down or re start, is user friendly as well
[21:44] <sebsebseb> plus with the me menu, and sound menu, and whatever, on the top there, people will be used to going to the top right to do stuff
[21:44] <jenkins> I do agree the system menu is rarely used
[21:45] <sebsebseb> jenkins: espesailly now with Software Centre, most users won't be going to Synaptic
[21:45] <sebsebseb> jenkins: also before I would put the Gnome icons on, the old Gnome icons,  make the icons show on the system menu,  with shut down and log out there
[21:45] <sebsebseb> I didn't like most of the Ubuntu icons, but Gnome ones yeah,  however now
[21:46] <jenkins> I like synaptic but it is complex for adding programs if you are new to ubuntu
[21:46] <sebsebseb> 10.10 will also get these newer Gnome icons for that, which I don't like, except for log out which improed,  shut down has gone horrible.  and yeah by default icons aren't showing in system menu anyway, so most users woudn't even see, what I was just on about
[21:46] <sebsebseb> jenkins: PC Linux OS also has Synaptic by the way, and with APT RPM, so a bit differnet to apt  in Ubuntu and Debian
[21:47] <sebsebseb> Synaptic is a program I miss when using Mandriva, and it seems I can't just install it into this distro either
[21:47] <sebsebseb> I got to used to using it in Ubuntu for years, so yeah
[21:47] <jenkins> I have not tried other distros much
[21:47] <sebsebseb> jenkins: people don't like how Ubuntu are doing their own indicators now as well
[21:47] <sebsebseb> and stuff like that
[21:48] <jenkins> I think that they tried to work with gnome but they said they wanted to create them their own way. or thatw what i recall
[21:48] <sebsebseb> jenkins: and certain people are worried that Ubuntu will  end up doing to many changes to Gnome, and so basically fork it, well they kind of  have already, and that kind of thing
[21:49] <sebsebseb> jenkins: and some people wonder if Ubuntu will use Gnome Shell, or will instead find some excuse to use Unity in desktop edition as well, for example sound menu and such not being able to be ported over easilly
[21:49] <jenkins> I guess we will have to wait and see
[21:49] <sebsebseb> jenkins: Ubuntu is the most liked distro  on the desktop, but also the most hated/disliked
[21:49] <jenkins> lol
[21:49] <sebsebseb> jenkins: pretty much everyone who uses another distro, doesn't like Ubuntu much  these days, it seems
[21:50] <sebsebseb> jenkins: not including distros based on Ubuntu of course
[21:50] <sebsebseb> jenkins: and yeah exactly we have to see
[21:50] <jenkins> of course. Each to their own.
[21:50] <sebsebseb> jenkins: well 2011 should be an interesting year for Desktop Linux :)
[21:51] <jenkins> don't we say that every year?
[21:51] <sebsebseb> jenkins: I guess so, but I mean since Gnome 3
[21:51] <jenkins> yea i got what you ment :)
[21:52] <sebsebseb> jenkins: and then yeah the whole Mono thing, a lot of people are worried about and all that as well
[21:52] <jenkins> I have no opinion on mono for some reason. I know why people don't like it
[21:52] <sebsebseb> jenkins: its pretty awesome all this really though,  the choice of distros, and programs in them, and all these communites as well as part of that, and all that
[21:53] <jenkins> the choice is great
[21:53] <sebsebseb> however people don't always agree with each other, so sometimes issues as a result
[21:53] <sebsebseb> jenkins: I am not that keen on those  Ubuntu Gnome patches as I was saying, but uhmm
[21:53] <sebsebseb> I mean what features does  the average end user see when it comes to Gnome?
[21:53] <sebsebseb> I mean changes in the recent releasese
[21:54] <sebsebseb> jenkins: what noticeable end user is there?  well nothing really?  except for the background changer effect that got introduced in 9.04 when it comes to Ubuntu
[21:54] <sebsebseb> know what I mean?
[21:54] <sebsebseb> noticleabe end user features,  not much from Gnome, but  Ubuntu has done some.   and a lot of new users from Windows and Mac OS X, will expect a lot of new features
[21:54] <jenkins> ubuntu has got faster
[21:55] <jenkins> I don't know loads about raw gnome
[21:55] <sebsebseb> yes Ubuntu will annoy some of us, because of the direction it is currently going in, but hey plenty of other distros we can use instead :)
[21:55] <jenkins> they are working hard on gnome 3
[21:56] <sebsebseb> I have mixed views when it comes to Ubuntu since 9.04,  negative and postive,  but even so
[21:56] <sebsebseb> i'll help newbies with it here and there, and follow whats going on, and try development versions
[21:56] <jenkins> cool, i should go to bed as I will fall asleep at work if i do not
[21:57] <sebsebseb> jenkins: oh I was just going to finnish this off with a nice conclusion
[21:57] <nisshh> i dislike where ubuntu is going as well
[21:57] <jenkins> k carry on
[21:57] <sebsebseb> jenkins: which also brings things back a little bit more on topic for this channel
[21:58] <jenkins> go on
[21:58] <sebsebseb> jenkins: However better people use Ubuntu than Windows or Mac OS X really, so Ubuntu Manual project is a good project to help with this
[21:58] <jenkins> yey ubuntu is good \o/
[21:58] <sebsebseb> jenkins: when it works
[21:58] <sebsebseb> jenkins: on sometimes computer, without hardware issues sure, and just works
[21:59] <sebsebseb> if not a lot will think Linux sucks, and a lot won't try other distros instead, where there hardware may work better
[21:59] <jenkins> i have not had any harware issues yet
[21:59] <sebsebseb> they might try a later version of Ubuntu, but then if the same problem, oh yes, they really are going to think Linux sucks
[21:59] <jenkins> yea I know what you mean
[22:00] <jenkins> night then
[22:00] <sebsebseb> nisshh: your a community member though, and you say you dislike where Ubuntu is heading, well there are other ones who think this as well, I talked to one  not that long ago on here
[22:00] <jenkins> good to cathc up sebsebseb
[22:00] <sebsebseb> jenkins: uh yeah I guess
[22:01] <sebsebseb> nisshh: anyway whys that?   I just been through it here, why it is for me :)
[22:04] <sebsebseb> nisshh: I think its kind of interesting that quite a few of the community memebers are  starting to dislike Ubuntu as well
[22:13] <nisshh> sebsebseb: why? because im not liking the fact that Ubuntu is getting closer and closer to Windows
[22:14] <nisshh> sure it still has all the advantages
[22:14] <nisshh> but it should be different
[22:14] <nisshh> we should not be making Ubuntu more like windows
[22:14] <nisshh> we should be making it different
[22:15] <nisshh> if we make it the same, it will cripple it
[22:15] <nisshh> sebsebseb: thats my short answer, if you want a more in depth discussion, PM me :)
[22:21] <sebsebseb> nisshh: yep lets pm, and what I think and such, I guess is in the logs now
[22:22] <nisshh> sebsebseb: cool
[22:25] <sebsebseb> nisshh: well its being more more like Mac OS X really, but lets pm, if you don't want to chat about this in here of course
[22:25] <nisshh> sebsebseb: well, it just keeps the chatter out of an unrelated channel thats all
[22:26] <sebsebseb> nisshh: yep plus doesn't  end up in public logs,  which as a community memember you might not quite want, on this subject :D
[22:27] <nisshh> :)