/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/15/#ubuntu-accessibility.txt

pendulum|phoneFYI, tonight's meeting is likely to start late. I have to pick up a friend and then get to an Internet connection and the thing I'm picking up the friend from is so far running over by 30 min21:26
pendulum|phoneAlanBell: If I'm not around by 15 min late and there are people around for the meeting, can you run it?21:30
AlanBellnot doing that well myself on timing21:32
* AlanBell is using a phone on a train21:33
pendulum|phoneHeh. I'm phone in a car park21:33
* nigelb waves21:34
pendulum|phoneBut at least I've now heard from the person I'm picking up so I know she should be out within the next 10!21:34
AlanBellI think we just found a volunteer21:34
pendulum|phoneHeh21:34
pendulum|phoneIs my phone sending messages to the channel when I go away and come back?21:37
dutchiethere's a meeting tonight?21:38
pendulum|phoneYes21:38
dutchielucky i got back from holidays then21:38
pendulum|phoneAnyway I'm getting offline so I can drive21:38
pendulum|phoneCatch y'all when I get to proper Internet!21:39
* AlanBell gets on another train21:57
nigelbAlanBell: how many trains do you have to take to get home?21:58
AlanBelltwo21:58
AlanBelland a bike21:58
nigelbAlanBell: I'm so jealous21:58
* nigelb <3 trains21:58
AlanBellI used a Boris bike in London21:59
nigelbAlanBell: is it like the system paris and montreal have?22:11
Pendulumheya!22:15
Pendulumnigelb: AlanBell TheMuso maco dutchie charlie-tca meeting?22:15
nigelbo/22:16
* charlie-tca waves22:16
PendulumI assume y'all didn't start without me since it's quiet in here?22:16
charlie-tcaright22:16
dutchieo/22:16
* dutchie pauses david mitchell22:16
nigelbPendulum: you're our fearless leader afterall :)22:16
macoumm i'l be on in a bit. i have to get to the bus stop now22:16
macowell hmmor i can be on now and leave in like 10 minutes and catch a later bus22:17
Pendulummaco: take your bus :P22:17
* dutchie runs off for food22:17
macowell i wont make it now anyway22:17
macoits in 6 minutes, and its a 10 minute walk22:17
nigelbrun22:17
macoi cant run that far!22:17
macoi can run like... 50m!22:18
Pendulumokay, might was well get started, I think22:18
macoits an improvement over the 10m i could manage before, but still not enough to catch the bus :P22:18
nigelb+122:18
Pendulum#startmeeting22:18
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Sep 15 21:17:53 2010 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.22:18
meetingologyupdated22:18
meetingologyUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.22:18
meetingologyupdated22:18
Pendulumwho all is here? I think saying "present" means the bot recognises you or something like that ;-)22:19
dutchieupdated?22:19
dutchiepresent22:19
AlanBellhi22:19
nigelbpresent22:19
Pendulumdutchie: ask AlanBell about the "updated"22:19
Pendulumpresent :)22:19
* dutchie senses AlanBell has some debugging he forgot to disable22:19
AlanBelloops22:19
Pendulumheya hypatia :)22:19
Pendulumdutchie: at least it no longer gives me hugs ;-)22:20
charlie-tcapresent22:20
* AlanBell will bite22:20
AlanBelloops22:20
dutchieoh dear, i've made a mess out of this yoghurt22:20
nigelbAlanBell: present => o/22:20
* AlanBell will be popping out22:20
Pendulumokay, so meeting agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda22:20
macopresent22:21
Pendulum#topic Review of what's been accomplished in Maverick cycle22:22
meetingologyTOPIC: Review of what's been accomplished in Maverick cycle22:22
PendulumSo I guess the first thing is that we actually have a team!22:22
PendulumFor the first time in a few years :)22:22
hypatiawoot!22:22
charlie-tcaThat seems BIG!22:23
PendulumI think it is!22:23
nigelbYes it is!22:23
PendulumThank you to everyone who has shown up and helped and supported so that it wasn't just me (or just me and TheMuso ) trying to do it all ourselves :-)22:23
Pendulumother things that have happened:22:24
PendulumWe managed to research the info for the Accessibility Personas and AlanBell , dutchie , and I have started putting them together to actually create the personas22:25
Pendulumwe should hopefully have them done by 10.10.10 :)22:25
Pendulumcharlie-tca and nigelb have started working to update the wiki to make it more current and make it slightly easier to follow22:26
Pendulumnigelb: charlie-tca do either of you have an update on how that's going?22:26
nigelbWork schedule has been killing lately.  (I'm at work at 3 am).  Perhaps in 2 weeks.  We could use some help.22:26
charlie-tcaWe now have a meeting heading we can use to show when the next meeting is. Just update it one place to update all the pages22:26
* nigelb hugs charlie-tca 22:27
charlie-tcaWe changed a couple of pages to see if there would be any feedback. No bad things came back yet22:27
Pendulumokay so that has been started22:28
Pendulumanyone who is interested in helping, please poke charlie-tca or nigelb :)22:28
Pendulumoh, and if you're interested in the personas, please poke one of us who have been working on them22:28
charlie-tcaWe are working slowly, to make sure nothing gets changed and can't be read by all of us22:28
Pendulumcharlie-tca: thank you so much!22:28
charlie-tcaYou are welcome22:28
kinouchouhello22:28
Pendulumhi kinouchou :)22:29
charlie-tcanigelb: did I miss anything?22:29
nigelbcharlie-tca: Nope :)22:29
charlie-tcaI do have a question, though.22:29
Pendulumyes?22:29
charlie-tcaDoes anyone have an opinion on putting the Table Of Contents first on the page instead of on the side?22:30
MichelleQsorry I'm late.  ;-)22:30
PendulumMichelleQ: no worries :)22:30
charlie-tcaIt means having to go to the top of the page to see it, but I think that happens now.22:30
Pendulumcharlie-tca: doesn't bother me22:31
nigelbFolks using scren readers could greatly help us make decisions while working on the wiki.22:31
charlie-tcaIt does eliminate the two different items side-by-side on the page22:31
nigelbIf something is irritating/difficult to use, please let one of us know.22:31
Pendulummy big thing is that I don't want the ToC to have all the pages listed on it (like it used to)22:32
charlie-tcaIt won't 22:32
charlie-tcadone here22:33
PendulumI'd say if you're worried make a couple mock-ups and we can test them all out and figure out what's best :)22:33
Pendulume-mail the list for feedback :)22:33
PendulumTheMuso: are you around to give us an update of what's happened in terms of development this cycle?22:33
Pendulumokay, I'm guessing he's not here yet (I know it's early for him)22:35
Pendulumso that's all I can think of in terms of reviewing Maverick cycle22:36
macoits sunrise for him22:36
PendulumAnyone else have anything to add?22:36
nigelbo/22:36
Pendulumnigelb: go for it22:36
nigelbTeam Reports!22:36
Pendulumoh! yes! we did our first team report!22:36
nigelbI figure we should have a rotating volunteer(s) to deal with it rather than one person22:37
Pendulumif someone who is actually on their own computer has a link, can you stick it in?22:37
nigelbhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/TeamReports22:38
Pendulumfor those who don't know Team Reports are done monthly and then show up in Ubuntu Weekly News as a way of informing the larger Ubuntu community of what we're doing :-)22:40
PendulumI like the idea of switching off who does them, but I think we may want to organize that through the mailing list because a couple people who might be willing to help out aren't here22:41
Pendulummaybe it should go under our next item of business?22:41
Pendulumanyone else?22:41
AlanBellpersonally I think the team reports should be done by *everyone*22:41
nigelbAlanBell: yes, but *somone* should make sure its done.22:42
AlanBellif you do anything interesting, like revamping some wiki bits, chairing a meeting (like this one) blogging about something relevant then shove in a bullet point22:42
Pendulumright22:42
AlanBellI am happy to make sure it is done at the end of the month, that is one of the things that the ubuntu-for-all team will help with for various projects22:43
PendulumI'm also happy to be the final person since I work on UWN so am aware of when they need to be done by22:43
nigelbI do it for another team awayway, so I'll be happy to help too.22:43
Pendulumso it sounds like that shouldn't be an issue22:44
AlanBellgreat22:44
Pendulumis that it?22:44
Pendulumgoing once...22:45
Pendulumgoing twice...22:46
Pendulumokay, next topic22:46
Pendulum#topic Blueprint for UDS-N and the Natty Narwhal cycle 22:46
meetingologyTOPIC: Blueprint for UDS-N and the Natty Narwhal cycle22:46
PendulumSo it's time to start thinking about our blueprint for the next cycle because our next meeting will be so right before UDS that we won't really have time22:47
Pendulumlast meeting I asked people to start thinking about it22:47
AlanBelldoes the blueprint exist yet?22:47
Pendulumno22:48
AlanBellok, I will stop looking for it then!22:48
AlanBellone thing I think would be good would be to contribute an accessible moin theme for wiki.ubuntu.com22:49
PendulumI'm just going to assign myself to do that this week22:49
Pendulum#action Pendulum to set-up UDS-N blueprint22:50
meetingologyACTION: Pendulum to set-up UDS-N blueprint22:50
Pendulumso what are things community/documentation/outreach related that people want to see next cycle?22:50
Pendulumokay, I guess I"m starting22:52
Pendulumfor documentation one thing I'd like to have is a list of programs in Univers/Multiverse that are accessibility related split by what they do22:53
Pendulumthere's an old one on help.ubuntu.com but it's out of date and it's not clear how to find the programs22:53
Pendulum(like some accessibility related programs aren't found in the Software Center's accessibility section)22:54
PendulumI'd also like to get an updated wiki page about the accessible install22:55
Pendulumas AlanBell discovered, there's not much up-to-date info out there and it's not clear22:55
Pendulumanyone else have any other documentation things they'd like to see?22:55
AlanBellI think we have to continue with the personas, getting them attention22:56
Pendulumyeah22:57
Pendulumanything else?22:57
AlanBellwe should probably do more with upstreams too22:57
Pendulumthat's the next bit :)22:58
Pendulumokay, so next bit I was going to ask about was outreach22:58
Pendulumboth internal outreach with Ubuntu, but also working with other projects22:58
Pendulumfor example, I've started doing some work with the Gnome Accessibility team and they'd love to work with us if anyone is interested in helping out there as well22:59
Pendulumsince a lot of accessibility work happens upstream, it'd be nice to work with them23:01
AlanBellanything in particular they need?23:01
Pendulumwell, they're about to do a huge hackfest next month and one thing they're going to be doing then is tagging accessibility bugs23:02
Pendulumand they're always looking for documentation help23:02
Pendulumthey hang out in #a11y on irc.gnome.org (which is technically gimpnet, but I never remember that)23:03
Pendulumso anyone who wants to pop by there is welcome!23:04
Pendulumas far as internal outreach, I think advertising the personas when they're done is a big thing23:04
Pendulumalso, I think if we could get more blogging done is good23:05
Pendulumanyone else have any ideas?23:05
Pendulumanyone? beuller?23:06
nigelbscheduled blogging hitting the planet?23:07
nigelbso somone talks about it at least once a week23:07
Pendulumyeah, probably23:07
Pendulumi'm a lot less worried about the "how" right now23:08
Pendulumand more interested in other things people want to have happen23:08
Pendulumokay, moving on since I'm getting bored of talking to myself23:10
Pendulum:P23:10
nigelbheh23:11
PendulumI suspect development goals need to mostly be addressed to TheMuso and ubuntu-accessibility-devel@lists.ubuntu.com23:11
Pendulumespecially as I'm not sure TheMuso is here23:11
AlanBellsome stuff around the installer would probably be good to put in for that23:11
Pendulumyeah23:12
Pendulumokay, we're now running late (mostly because we started late) so does anyone have a problem with moving on?23:13
Pendulumokay23:14
Pendulumfinal item on the agenda23:14
Pendulum#topic Any Other Business23:14
meetingologyTOPIC: Any Other Business23:14
nigelbWe did talk of reports earlier.  Does anyone want to add something to it?23:15
PendulumI do actually have a different AOB thing, but if people want to talk about reports, please speak up!23:16
Pendulumanyone?23:16
Pendulumnigelb: is there something with it you want to talk about?23:17
AlanBellI will add a link to the persona stuff done the other day23:17
AlanBellthe wiki is being *very* slow right now23:17
nigelbPendulum: none, lets move on23:17
Pendulumokay :)23:17
PendulumI want to put out an announcement that if anyone has problems with other Ubuntu teams that are accessibility related, please let me know while they're happening so I can see about mediating what's happening23:18
PendulumI've started hearing stuff that has happened where accessibility concerns have been dismissed by Ubuntu teams and I do want to see if things can get figured out so they work for everyone23:18
Pendulumbut if I don't hear about it until after it happens, I can't do anything!23:18
TheMusoSorry guys, totally forgot there was a meeting.23:21
PendulumTheMuso: no worries :)23:22
PendulumTheMuso: do you want to do a "what happened during Maverick" for devel update?23:23
TheMusoThere is not much to say. My priorities have been elsewhere, so other than updating the pieces of the stack as well as I can, thats about it.23:24
Pendulum*nods*23:24
PendulumTheMuso: I've pretty much told people who have things they're interested in in terms of devel to e-mail the accessibility devel list23:24
TheMusoBeen doing a little bit of vinux work in my own time, but I haven't done so for a while. Other personal interests have taken up my own time.23:24
TheMusoPendulum: Thanks.23:24
Pendulumokay. 23:24
PendulumDoes anyone have anything else for the meeting?23:24
Pendulumgoing once23:26
Pendulumgoing twice23:26
Pendulum#endmeeting23:27
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Sep 15 22:26:16 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)23:27
meetingologyMinutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2010/ubuntu-accessibility.2010-09-15-21.17.moin.txt23:27
macoTheMuso: is it still the case that webkit is a failwhale for screenreaders?23:27
macoi recall that being a complaint about the software center23:28
Pendulumokay. i'm heading out y'all. catch you later!23:28
AlanBellmaco: not only that, it is now part of the installer23:28
macoAlanBell: uh oh23:28
TheMusomaco: Yes, and AlanBell is correct.23:28
AlanBellnight all o/23:28
TheMusomaco: Been like that since lucid. All we can do is wait for webkit a11y to catch up. We may consider disabling the slide show in the future if accessibility is enabled...23:30
TheMusoIf webkit is still not ready.23:30

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