[21:26] <pendulum|phone> FYI, tonight's meeting is likely to start late. I have to pick up a friend and then get to an Internet connection and the thing I'm picking up the friend from is so far running over by 30 min
[21:30] <pendulum|phone> AlanBell: If I'm not around by 15 min late and there are people around for the meeting, can you run it?
[21:32] <AlanBell> not doing that well myself on timing
[21:33]  * AlanBell is using a phone on a train
[21:33] <pendulum|phone> Heh. I'm phone in a car park
[21:34]  * nigelb waves
[21:34] <pendulum|phone> But at least I've now heard from the person I'm picking up so I know she should be out within the next 10!
[21:34] <AlanBell> I think we just found a volunteer
[21:34] <pendulum|phone> Heh
[21:37] <pendulum|phone> Is my phone sending messages to the channel when I go away and come back?
[21:38] <dutchie> there's a meeting tonight?
[21:38] <pendulum|phone> Yes
[21:38] <dutchie> lucky i got back from holidays then
[21:38] <pendulum|phone> Anyway I'm getting offline so I can drive
[21:39] <pendulum|phone> Catch y'all when I get to proper Internet!
[21:57]  * AlanBell gets on another train
[21:58] <nigelb> AlanBell: how many trains do you have to take to get home?
[21:58] <AlanBell> two
[21:58] <AlanBell> and a bike
[21:58] <nigelb> AlanBell: I'm so jealous
[21:58]  * nigelb <3 trains
[21:59] <AlanBell> I used a Boris bike in London
[22:11] <nigelb> AlanBell: is it like the system paris and montreal have?
[22:15] <Pendulum> heya!
[22:15] <Pendulum> nigelb: AlanBell TheMuso maco dutchie charlie-tca meeting?
[22:16] <nigelb> o/
[22:16]  * charlie-tca waves
[22:16] <Pendulum> I assume y'all didn't start without me since it's quiet in here?
[22:16] <charlie-tca> right
[22:16] <dutchie> o/
[22:16]  * dutchie pauses david mitchell
[22:16] <nigelb> Pendulum: you're our fearless leader afterall :)
[22:16] <maco> umm i'l be on in a bit. i have to get to the bus stop now
[22:17] <maco> well hmmor i can be on now and leave in like 10 minutes and catch a later bus
[22:17] <Pendulum> maco: take your bus :P
[22:17]  * dutchie runs off for food
[22:17] <maco> well i wont make it now anyway
[22:17] <maco> its in 6 minutes, and its a 10 minute walk
[22:17] <nigelb> run
[22:17] <maco> i cant run that far!
[22:18] <maco> i can run like... 50m!
[22:18] <Pendulum> okay, might was well get started, I think
[22:18] <maco> its an improvement over the 10m i could manage before, but still not enough to catch the bus :P
[22:18] <nigelb> +1
[22:18] <Pendulum> #startmeeting
[22:18] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 15 21:17:53 2010 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
[22:18] <meetingology> updated
[22:18] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
[22:18] <meetingology> updated
[22:19] <Pendulum> who all is here? I think saying "present" means the bot recognises you or something like that ;-)
[22:19] <dutchie> updated?
[22:19] <dutchie> present
[22:19] <AlanBell> hi
[22:19] <nigelb> present
[22:19] <Pendulum> dutchie: ask AlanBell about the "updated"
[22:19] <Pendulum> present :)
[22:19]  * dutchie senses AlanBell has some debugging he forgot to disable
[22:19] <AlanBell> oops
[22:19] <Pendulum> heya hypatia :)
[22:20] <Pendulum> dutchie: at least it no longer gives me hugs ;-)
[22:20] <charlie-tca> present
[22:20]  * AlanBell will bite
[22:20] <AlanBell> oops
[22:20] <dutchie> oh dear, i've made a mess out of this yoghurt
[22:20] <nigelb> AlanBell: present => o/
[22:20]  * AlanBell will be popping out
[22:20] <Pendulum> okay, so meeting agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
[22:21] <maco> present
[22:22] <Pendulum> #topic Review of what's been accomplished in Maverick cycle
[22:22] <meetingology> TOPIC: Review of what's been accomplished in Maverick cycle
[22:22] <Pendulum> So I guess the first thing is that we actually have a team!
[22:22] <Pendulum> For the first time in a few years :)
[22:22] <hypatia> woot!
[22:23] <charlie-tca> That seems BIG!
[22:23] <Pendulum> I think it is!
[22:23] <nigelb> Yes it is!
[22:23] <Pendulum> Thank you to everyone who has shown up and helped and supported so that it wasn't just me (or just me and TheMuso ) trying to do it all ourselves :-)
[22:24] <Pendulum> other things that have happened:
[22:25] <Pendulum> We managed to research the info for the Accessibility Personas and AlanBell , dutchie , and I have started putting them together to actually create the personas
[22:25] <Pendulum> we should hopefully have them done by 10.10.10 :)
[22:26] <Pendulum> charlie-tca and nigelb have started working to update the wiki to make it more current and make it slightly easier to follow
[22:26] <Pendulum> nigelb: charlie-tca do either of you have an update on how that's going?
[22:26] <nigelb> Work schedule has been killing lately.  (I'm at work at 3 am).  Perhaps in 2 weeks.  We could use some help.
[22:26] <charlie-tca> We now have a meeting heading we can use to show when the next meeting is. Just update it one place to update all the pages
[22:27]  * nigelb hugs charlie-tca 
[22:27] <charlie-tca> We changed a couple of pages to see if there would be any feedback. No bad things came back yet
[22:28] <Pendulum> okay so that has been started
[22:28] <Pendulum> anyone who is interested in helping, please poke charlie-tca or nigelb :)
[22:28] <Pendulum> oh, and if you're interested in the personas, please poke one of us who have been working on them
[22:28] <charlie-tca> We are working slowly, to make sure nothing gets changed and can't be read by all of us
[22:28] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: thank you so much!
[22:28] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[22:28] <kinouchou> hello
[22:29] <Pendulum> hi kinouchou :)
[22:29] <charlie-tca> nigelb: did I miss anything?
[22:29] <nigelb> charlie-tca: Nope :)
[22:29] <charlie-tca> I do have a question, though.
[22:29] <Pendulum> yes?
[22:30] <charlie-tca> Does anyone have an opinion on putting the Table Of Contents first on the page instead of on the side?
[22:30] <MichelleQ> sorry I'm late.  ;-)
[22:30] <Pendulum> MichelleQ: no worries :)
[22:30] <charlie-tca> It means having to go to the top of the page to see it, but I think that happens now.
[22:31] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: doesn't bother me
[22:31] <nigelb> Folks using scren readers could greatly help us make decisions while working on the wiki.
[22:31] <charlie-tca> It does eliminate the two different items side-by-side on the page
[22:31] <nigelb> If something is irritating/difficult to use, please let one of us know.
[22:32] <Pendulum> my big thing is that I don't want the ToC to have all the pages listed on it (like it used to)
[22:32] <charlie-tca> It won't 
[22:33] <charlie-tca> done here
[22:33] <Pendulum> I'd say if you're worried make a couple mock-ups and we can test them all out and figure out what's best :)
[22:33] <Pendulum> e-mail the list for feedback :)
[22:33] <Pendulum> TheMuso: are you around to give us an update of what's happened in terms of development this cycle?
[22:35] <Pendulum> okay, I'm guessing he's not here yet (I know it's early for him)
[22:36] <Pendulum> so that's all I can think of in terms of reviewing Maverick cycle
[22:36] <maco> its sunrise for him
[22:36] <Pendulum> Anyone else have anything to add?
[22:36] <nigelb> o/
[22:36] <Pendulum> nigelb: go for it
[22:36] <nigelb> Team Reports!
[22:36] <Pendulum> oh! yes! we did our first team report!
[22:37] <nigelb> I figure we should have a rotating volunteer(s) to deal with it rather than one person
[22:37] <Pendulum> if someone who is actually on their own computer has a link, can you stick it in?
[22:38] <nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/TeamReports
[22:40] <Pendulum> for those who don't know Team Reports are done monthly and then show up in Ubuntu Weekly News as a way of informing the larger Ubuntu community of what we're doing :-)
[22:41] <Pendulum> I like the idea of switching off who does them, but I think we may want to organize that through the mailing list because a couple people who might be willing to help out aren't here
[22:41] <Pendulum> maybe it should go under our next item of business?
[22:41] <Pendulum> anyone else?
[22:41] <AlanBell> personally I think the team reports should be done by *everyone*
[22:42] <nigelb> AlanBell: yes, but *somone* should make sure its done.
[22:42] <AlanBell> if you do anything interesting, like revamping some wiki bits, chairing a meeting (like this one) blogging about something relevant then shove in a bullet point
[22:42] <Pendulum> right
[22:43] <AlanBell> I am happy to make sure it is done at the end of the month, that is one of the things that the ubuntu-for-all team will help with for various projects
[22:43] <Pendulum> I'm also happy to be the final person since I work on UWN so am aware of when they need to be done by
[22:43] <nigelb> I do it for another team awayway, so I'll be happy to help too.
[22:44] <Pendulum> so it sounds like that shouldn't be an issue
[22:44] <AlanBell> great
[22:44] <Pendulum> is that it?
[22:45] <Pendulum> going once...
[22:46] <Pendulum> going twice...
[22:46] <Pendulum> okay, next topic
[22:46] <Pendulum> #topic Blueprint for UDS-N and the Natty Narwhal cycle 
[22:46] <meetingology> TOPIC: Blueprint for UDS-N and the Natty Narwhal cycle
[22:47] <Pendulum> So it's time to start thinking about our blueprint for the next cycle because our next meeting will be so right before UDS that we won't really have time
[22:47] <Pendulum> last meeting I asked people to start thinking about it
[22:47] <AlanBell> does the blueprint exist yet?
[22:48] <Pendulum> no
[22:48] <AlanBell> ok, I will stop looking for it then!
[22:49] <AlanBell> one thing I think would be good would be to contribute an accessible moin theme for wiki.ubuntu.com
[22:49] <Pendulum> I'm just going to assign myself to do that this week
[22:50] <Pendulum> #action Pendulum to set-up UDS-N blueprint
[22:50] <meetingology> ACTION: Pendulum to set-up UDS-N blueprint
[22:50] <Pendulum> so what are things community/documentation/outreach related that people want to see next cycle?
[22:52] <Pendulum> okay, I guess I"m starting
[22:53] <Pendulum> for documentation one thing I'd like to have is a list of programs in Univers/Multiverse that are accessibility related split by what they do
[22:53] <Pendulum> there's an old one on help.ubuntu.com but it's out of date and it's not clear how to find the programs
[22:54] <Pendulum> (like some accessibility related programs aren't found in the Software Center's accessibility section)
[22:55] <Pendulum> I'd also like to get an updated wiki page about the accessible install
[22:55] <Pendulum> as AlanBell discovered, there's not much up-to-date info out there and it's not clear
[22:55] <Pendulum> anyone else have any other documentation things they'd like to see?
[22:56] <AlanBell> I think we have to continue with the personas, getting them attention
[22:57] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:57] <Pendulum> anything else?
[22:57] <AlanBell> we should probably do more with upstreams too
[22:58] <Pendulum> that's the next bit :)
[22:58] <Pendulum> okay, so next bit I was going to ask about was outreach
[22:58] <Pendulum> both internal outreach with Ubuntu, but also working with other projects
[22:59] <Pendulum> for example, I've started doing some work with the Gnome Accessibility team and they'd love to work with us if anyone is interested in helping out there as well
[23:01] <Pendulum> since a lot of accessibility work happens upstream, it'd be nice to work with them
[23:01] <AlanBell> anything in particular they need?
[23:02] <Pendulum> well, they're about to do a huge hackfest next month and one thing they're going to be doing then is tagging accessibility bugs
[23:02] <Pendulum> and they're always looking for documentation help
[23:03] <Pendulum> they hang out in #a11y on irc.gnome.org (which is technically gimpnet, but I never remember that)
[23:04] <Pendulum> so anyone who wants to pop by there is welcome!
[23:04] <Pendulum> as far as internal outreach, I think advertising the personas when they're done is a big thing
[23:05] <Pendulum> also, I think if we could get more blogging done is good
[23:05] <Pendulum> anyone else have any ideas?
[23:06] <Pendulum> anyone? beuller?
[23:07] <nigelb> scheduled blogging hitting the planet?
[23:07] <nigelb> so somone talks about it at least once a week
[23:07] <Pendulum> yeah, probably
[23:08] <Pendulum> i'm a lot less worried about the "how" right now
[23:08] <Pendulum> and more interested in other things people want to have happen
[23:10] <Pendulum> okay, moving on since I'm getting bored of talking to myself
[23:10] <Pendulum> :P
[23:11] <nigelb> heh
[23:11] <Pendulum> I suspect development goals need to mostly be addressed to TheMuso and ubuntu-accessibility-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[23:11] <Pendulum> especially as I'm not sure TheMuso is here
[23:11] <AlanBell> some stuff around the installer would probably be good to put in for that
[23:12] <Pendulum> yeah
[23:13] <Pendulum> okay, we're now running late (mostly because we started late) so does anyone have a problem with moving on?
[23:14] <Pendulum> okay
[23:14] <Pendulum> final item on the agenda
[23:14] <Pendulum> #topic Any Other Business
[23:14] <meetingology> TOPIC: Any Other Business
[23:15] <nigelb> We did talk of reports earlier.  Does anyone want to add something to it?
[23:16] <Pendulum> I do actually have a different AOB thing, but if people want to talk about reports, please speak up!
[23:16] <Pendulum> anyone?
[23:17] <Pendulum> nigelb: is there something with it you want to talk about?
[23:17] <AlanBell> I will add a link to the persona stuff done the other day
[23:17] <AlanBell> the wiki is being *very* slow right now
[23:17] <nigelb> Pendulum: none, lets move on
[23:17] <Pendulum> okay :)
[23:18] <Pendulum> I want to put out an announcement that if anyone has problems with other Ubuntu teams that are accessibility related, please let me know while they're happening so I can see about mediating what's happening
[23:18] <Pendulum> I've started hearing stuff that has happened where accessibility concerns have been dismissed by Ubuntu teams and I do want to see if things can get figured out so they work for everyone
[23:18] <Pendulum> but if I don't hear about it until after it happens, I can't do anything!
[23:21] <TheMuso> Sorry guys, totally forgot there was a meeting.
[23:22] <Pendulum> TheMuso: no worries :)
[23:23] <Pendulum> TheMuso: do you want to do a "what happened during Maverick" for devel update?
[23:24] <TheMuso> There is not much to say. My priorities have been elsewhere, so other than updating the pieces of the stack as well as I can, thats about it.
[23:24] <Pendulum> *nods*
[23:24] <Pendulum> TheMuso: I've pretty much told people who have things they're interested in in terms of devel to e-mail the accessibility devel list
[23:24] <TheMuso> Been doing a little bit of vinux work in my own time, but I haven't done so for a while. Other personal interests have taken up my own time.
[23:24] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Thanks.
[23:24] <Pendulum> okay. 
[23:24] <Pendulum> Does anyone have anything else for the meeting?
[23:26] <Pendulum> going once
[23:26] <Pendulum> going twice
[23:27] <Pendulum> #endmeeting
[23:27] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 15 22:26:16 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)
[23:27] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2010/ubuntu-accessibility.2010-09-15-21.17.moin.txt
[23:27] <maco> TheMuso: is it still the case that webkit is a failwhale for screenreaders?
[23:28] <maco> i recall that being a complaint about the software center
[23:28] <Pendulum> okay. i'm heading out y'all. catch you later!
[23:28] <AlanBell> maco: not only that, it is now part of the installer
[23:28] <maco> AlanBell: uh oh
[23:28] <TheMuso> maco: Yes, and AlanBell is correct.
[23:28] <AlanBell> night all o/
[23:30] <TheMuso> maco: Been like that since lucid. All we can do is wait for webkit a11y to catch up. We may consider disabling the slide show in the future if accessibility is enabled...
[23:30] <TheMuso> If webkit is still not ready.