[01:03] <mhall119> highvoltage: ping
[01:03] <mhall119> stgraber: ping too
[04:09] <highvoltage> mhall119: pong
[04:09] <highvoltage> mhall119: sponsorship news? :)
[04:12] <mhall119> highvoltage: I was approved, you?
[04:12] <highvoltage> mhall119: I didn't apply
[04:13] <highvoltage> (I'm going though)
[05:36] <anton> im new to ubuntu how do i access edubuntu program?
[06:10] <anton> hello?
[06:10] <anton> anybody therE?
[13:17] <stgraber> mhall119: approved
[13:35] <stgraber> ogra: ping
[13:36] <stgraber> ogra: do you already know what time you'll be arriving in Bangor ?
[13:36] <stgraber> I'm about to contact Atlas travel to book all the required flights for highvoltage and I
[13:37] <mhall119> cool
[13:38] <mhall119> stgraber: highvoltage: Question, if Ubuntu moves to Gnome 3 in Natty, will Edubuntu do the same, or stay with Gnome 2?
[13:38] <stgraber> we won't maintain a completely different version of gnome, so we'd probably go with Gnome 3
[13:39] <highvoltage> the definitions on what 'gnome 3' exactly is is starting to get blurry. if you mean gnome-shell by default, then I agree with stgraber :)
[13:40] <mhall119> okay, so any qimo-gnome-session I make will need to work with that
[13:40] <mhall119> I know they were planning on keeping the gnome-panels around, hopefully gconf hasn't changed too much
[13:40] <ogra> stgraber, nope, just tell me when you arrive, i'm fyling on my own dime
[13:40] <highvoltage> mhall119: I'm a bit sceptacle about gnome-shell for natty, but it is indeed a possibility that we have to keeop in mind
[13:41] <stgraber> ogra: ok, will do
[14:33] <mhall119> highvoltage: even without shell, just the gnome3 panels and presumably gconf3 will likely introduce quite a few changes
[14:35]  * ogra thinks its very unlikely that ubuntu will move to gnome3
[14:36] <mhall119> presumably they'll move eventually
[14:36]  * ogra doubts that
[14:36] <mhall119> how long is Gnome going to keep 2 alive?
[14:36] <ogra> as long as someone maintains it
[14:37] <mhall119> I'm not sure Canonical is going to want to fork and maintain gnome2
[14:37] <mhall119> that's a lot of effort
[14:37] <ogra> likely less effort than porting the appmenu or unity stuff to gnome shell
[14:37] <highvoltage> ogra: what makes you say that?
[14:38] <highvoltage> ogra: gnome 3 is bigger than just gnome shell though, and from what I understand you'll be able to have gnome 3 without gnome shell too
[14:38] <highvoltage> right now gnome-shell doesn't even work on maverick, sadly
[14:39] <ogra> highvoltage, the things i saw from G3 yet were all not usable on older HW for example
[14:39] <ogra> *everything* requires full composite etc etc
[14:39] <ogra> i'm pretty sure we'll hold back as long as we can
[14:39] <highvoltage> ogra: even with metacity and the traditional nautius desktop with the panels?
[14:39] <ogra> with G3 being optionally in universe
[14:40] <stgraber> I'm guessing gnome-shell will probably stay in universe for a while, though all the other components will evolve as usual. So you'll eventually have all gnome 3 packages but still running the old interface.
[14:40] <ogra> well, if these bits will still exist in gnome3 ubuntu will likely use them
[14:40] <mhall119> I thought gnome3 was going to keep all the traditional components
[14:40] <highvoltage> stgraber: *nod* my bets are on that scenario :)
[14:41] <ogra> mhall119, not in any of the (5 i think) presentations i saw over this year
[14:41] <mhall119> i guess i need to start playing with gnome3 then
[14:41] <mhall119> ogra: maybe they've changed their minds, but I remember reading that shell was going to be optional
[14:41] <ogra> all gnome3 presentations i saw were totally gnome-shell centric
[14:42] <ogra> i saw the last one at linuxtag about two months ago, might be that they changed their mind
[14:42] <mhall119> ogra: I think that's planned to be the default, but I heard they were going to keep the old panels, metacity and everything around too
[14:42] <mhall119> for those that didn't want shell
[14:42] <ogra> what stays around will surely just be upgraded in ubuntu
[14:44] <highvoltage> mhall119: either way, we'll most likely use in edubuntu that's used in ubuntu :)
[14:45] <mhall119> ok
[14:45] <mhall119> I'm debating whether I want to move Qimo totally to Gnome, or try and maintain Xfce and Gnome sessions
[14:45] <highvoltage> mhall119: since the current 3.0 target is March 2011, I don't think it's extremely likely that gnome-shell will be default in ubuntu anyway, since it has lots of localisation and accessability issues, it doesn't work with stuff like compiz, and like ogra says it doesn't support older hardware either
[14:46] <highvoltage> mhall119: that's an interesting 'debate'. I've been wondering about that for qimo too and what I would do in your position :)
[14:46] <mhall119> highvoltage: yeah, I didn't think shell would be default, but if the other components still work...
[14:47] <highvoltage> mhall119: yep
[14:47] <mhall119> highvoltage: Most of my donations I'm getting now will usually run Gnome just fine, so I'm not sure if I need Xfce anymore
[14:47] <mhall119> but, on the other hand, the separation of session configs in Xfce is cleaner than with gconf
[14:47] <mhall119> and lots of other people still use qimo on old hardware
[14:47] <highvoltage> mhall119: yeah gnome runs quite well on modern old hardware :)
[14:48] <mhall119> lol, modern old
[14:49] <mhall119> how hard is it to get the gnome3 packages on Ubuntu or Debian?
[14:49] <highvoltage> mhall119: does tools like pessulus work on xfce? how about gnome-nanny? that might also be a consideration I guess?
[14:49] <mhall119> I don't know, some of gnome-nanny might work, the parts that operate through GDM
[14:49] <mhall119> not sure what pessulus is
[14:50] <mhall119> ah, probably runs through gconf, so won't work for the most part
[14:50] <highvoltage> mhall119: maybe ogra can correct me, but from what I understand gnome 2.30 was going to = gnome 3.0, then 2.32, I guess the 2.xx series will eventually become 3.0, so I don't think there are explicitely different packages at this stage
[14:51] <ogra> apart from the shell :)
[14:51] <mhall119> oh, ok
[14:51] <mhall119> I thought it was a separate branch of development
[14:52] <mhall119> in that case, I'm not so much worried about it
[14:52] <highvoltage> ogra: also, my bets are on that gnome 3 won't kill the old 2.xx desktop :)  (*especially* if ubuntu continues to use it)
[14:53] <highvoltage> mhall119: *nod*
[14:53] <highvoltage> "There's one obvious question related to those potential changes: what will happen to the old way of doing things? For example, will we still make the GNOME Panel available if, for some reason, people are not immediately happy with GNOME Shell? There's no obvious answer to this, and this will have to be discussed"
[14:53] <highvoltage> that's from http://live.gnome.org/ThreePointZero/Plan
[14:54] <highvoltage> so maybe I am a bit optimistic, but I don't think unrealistically so
[14:55] <highvoltage> some of the information on that page is also clearly outdated :)
[14:55] <highvoltage> " The end goal is simple: we want to deliver GNOME 3.0 by the time of 2.30 release." bit late for that :)
[14:55] <mhall119> yeah, every time I've visited that page it's seemed to be 6 months stale
[14:56] <mhall119> will there be any gnome devs at UDS that might be able to answer these questions?
[15:00] <highvoltage> mhall119: I don't think there is anyone who can give you definite answers on gnome 3 and what it will suport. I also agree with what you said earlier that it's probably way too soon to start worrying about it