[00:23] <h00k> I should have done a /clones before removing that bot.
[00:24] <Jordan_U> onoko in #ubuntu appears to be a bot.
[00:25] <h00k> Jordan_U: thank you
[00:26] <Jordan_U> You're welcome.
[03:50] <h00k> @btlogin
[06:57] <rww> Hola. The last few paragraphs of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines are redundant with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess , and it'd probably be less confusing if the former just linked to the latter instead.
[07:29] <Madpilot> rww, nice entitlement issue w/ fourstar on #u
[07:29] <Madpilot> pity he left before the edu-boot could be applied...
[07:29] <rww> oh hey, I'm still here.
[07:30] <IdleOne> I was slow on the trigger, wanted to give him a " You should know better"
[07:32] <rww> lies, yours says "Have a nice day"
[07:33] <IdleOne> only when I want it to
[07:33] <IdleOne> oh btw, GET OFF MY LAWN!
[07:34] <Tm_T> ?
[07:34] <IdleOne> he understood :)
[07:34] <IdleOne> hehe
[07:37] <Tm_T> ...
[07:38] <Tm_T> 1) you didn't answer his issue  2) that was rude, inside joke or not
[07:39] <IdleOne> what issue?
[07:40] <IdleOne> the guideline link thing. I had no opinion on it.
[07:41] <IdleOne> 2) I don't believe he took it as me being rude.
[07:41] <IdleOne> He knew exactly what I meant but if joking now and then with regulars who know us is out of line. I will remember not to anymore
[07:42] <Tm_T> so felt an urge to chase him away without even commenting an issue?
[07:42] <bazhang> nah. he took it as a joke. replied in -ot a moment later to that effect
[07:42] <Tm_T> sure
[07:42] <bazhang> he should be able to idle here, along with LjL
[07:43] <IdleOne> I still don't know what issue, he knows how to use the bot to submit factoids, he is also well versed on editing wiki pages. he knows who to talk to about having the wiki updated.
[07:43] <IdleOne> and yeah +1 to bazhang
[07:43] <Tm_T> IdleOne: then say it to him, don't just tell to go away
[07:43] <bazhang> probably just wanted to stop by
[07:43] <IdleOne> rww /should/ be in here
[07:44] <IdleOne> a half hour had passed, he forgot he was even in here
[07:45] <IdleOne> I'm not sure exactly what the problem is but I am feeling like I have to justify my every word
[07:45] <bazhang> lets move on
[07:45] <Tm_T> nah
[07:45] <IdleOne> I didn't see you offer any help to him on the issue
[07:46] <Tm_T> I just find it a bit rude to only chase user away (:
[07:46] <IdleOne> but I'll move along
[07:46] <Tm_T> np
[07:46] <IdleOne> and I find it extremely rude to be called on every thing I do
[08:50] <Jordan_U> avis is trolling in #ubuntu+1
[10:29] <topyli> @btlogin
[10:29] <topyli> @login
[10:29] <topyli> @btlogin
[10:50] <bazhang> 203.199.234.3   four users connecting from that
[10:58] <bazhang> seems to be just trolling judging from the nickspam and comments in -unregged
[11:19] <bazhang> ohir, hi
[11:20] <ohir> hi. who operates floodbot?
[11:20] <bazhang> ohir, what do you need with floodbot?
[11:21] <ohir> one or two second of delay before it will kick me out of #ubuntu. To help nickserv update its bases
[11:21] <bazhang> ohir, auto identify you mean?
[11:22] <ohir> yes
[11:22] <bazhang> ohir, which client
[11:22] <ohir> bazhang: I have autoident to nickserv and it goes before joins
[11:22] <ohir> bazhang: irssi
[11:23] <bazhang> ohir, not sure there, perhaps #freenode or #irssi could help with the username:password config for that.
[11:24] <ohir> bazhang: I can artifically delay #ubuntu join when I do client startup. Its morec complicated if connection get lost and irrsi rejoins itself
[11:24] <bazhang> ohir, then that seems best, doubtful floodbot would be re-written for that
[11:24] <bazhang> the channel is not always +r thankfully
[11:25] <ohir> bazhang: I _do_ have autoidentify on. Problem is that it is seen on my whois a 0,5-2s later (depends on how busy network currently is
[11:25] <bazhang> seems to coincide with junior high school break times
[11:25] <ohir> heh, likely
[11:26] <bazhang> sorry for the inconvenience, by the way
[11:27] <ohir> I do understand need for it. Just a little delay or even double check whois can resolve
[11:27] <bazhang> yep. outside my field of knowledge or say so, unfortunately.
[11:28] <ohir> bazhang: where floodbot source is?
[11:28] <bazhang> heh
[11:28] <bazhang> dont think its open source actually :)
[11:29] <ohir> ah, so gimme one who wrote it to discuss :)
[11:31] <ohir> or just let her/him know that it should go this way: on newnick join -> (optionally mute nick) -> delay 1s -> whois check -> delay 1s -> whois check. If unregistered -> go protein check.
[11:33] <bazhang> ohir, ok. will pass on message. no guarantee of activation though
[11:34] <ohir> thanks
[11:35] <ohir> nice
[11:35] <LjL> hi
[11:35] <LjL> i was told someone was inquiring about the floodbots
[11:35] <bazhang> leave you to it then
[11:35] <bazhang> LjL, it is ohir
[11:35] <LjL> ohir: hi
[11:35] <ohir> LjL: yep, I did
[11:35] <LjL> ohir: i wrote those monsters. what is the matter with them?
[11:36] <ohir> LjL: I ause autoidentify. And routinely get kicked to unreg because there is a delay in nickserv db update
[11:36] <ohir> IMO it should go this way: on newnick join -> (optionally mute nick) -> delay 1s -> whois check -> delay 1s -> whois check. If unregistered -> go protein check.
[11:37] <LjL> ohir: that's a long-time problem with freenode indeed... i *think* (not really sure at all) staff recommends to use SASL to avoid that
[11:37] <LjL> ohir, well, the "mute nick" part would be absolutely necessary, because the spambots that we want to keep out usually start flooding *immediately*
[11:37] <ohir> LjL: I know
[11:38] <LjL> ohir: what's more, i strongly suspect (because of previous tests) that wouldn't even be good enough, since if someone joins and immediately starts spamming, there's too much server lag, in general, to mute them before they start
[11:38] <ohir> LjL: just its more convinient to mute than to kick
[11:38] <LjL> ohir: and finally, you see, that would cause a *lot* of ugly mode-spam in #ubuntu, which we could really do without :\
[11:38] <ohir> LjL: yep, this is right guess
[11:39] <ohir> LjL: what about identify to floodbot?
[11:39] <LjL> ohir: can't your client just introduce a short delay between identifying and joining, so that joining unidentified is unlikely?
[11:40] <ohir> its a small percentile of users who are sophisticated enough to use autoidentify and go #ubuntu
[11:40] <LjL> ohir: well... the floodbots are written with the idea in mind that they'll never really deal with PM or permissions (as those would be additional security issues that aren't really taken account of in the code). but even if i tried to do that, what would be the gain? it's still very likely, unless you set a delay in your client, that the time between identify-to-bot and join would be too short
[11:41] <ohir> LjL: it can. On startup it can be done easily. Anything more (ie server change) it needs more than that
[11:41] <ohir> LjL: ok, thats an argument.
[11:41] <ohir> simplicity pays
[11:42] <ohir> as to identify - I can identify to bot before I join
[11:42] <LjL> ohir: perhaps i could make the bots auto-invite when they detect a cloak change, and if you have join-on-invite set in your client...
[11:42] <LjL> but having that set is in general a bad idea :\
[11:42] <ohir> but its good attitude to have it simple and secure
[11:42] <ohir> LjL: ow, thats good idea
[11:42] <LjL> ohir: well but you can identify to nickserv before you join, too - it's just that nickserv isn't lightning fast (but neither is floodbot)
[11:43] <LjL> i'll look into doing the inviting thing
[11:43] <ohir> LjL: I am doing autoidentify. Then have even servmesg reply wait. But somewhat it is not enough in congestion time
[11:43] <ohir> LjL: inviting is good solution
[11:44] <LjL> ohir: if you want to ask in #freenode too whether they have some smart solution (again, i vaguely recall SASL could at least mitigate that), i'm glad to lurk and learn
[11:45] <ohir> LjL: SASL is not solution 'for the masses'
[11:47] <ohir> and yes, the real solution is to have unregistered users silent on channels with an M mode
[11:47] <ohir> M as example
[11:47] <ohir> what should be done in ircd
[11:51]  * ohir reads freenode's sasl howto.
[11:51] <ohir> its certainly not for the masses
[11:58] <LjL> ohir, well, you said that auto-identifying and auto-joining isn't for the masses either, though
[12:02] <ohir> right :)
[12:03] <LjL> ohir: ok, if you want you can try unidentifying, joining -unregged and identifying, and seeing what happens (if this works)
[12:04] <LjL> ohir: oh - you must not be in #ubuntu while you do that
[12:05] <ohir> ok
[12:05] <ohir> its better to quit then
[12:05] <LjL> seems a bit overkill, but ok :P
[12:15] <ohir> seem it works
[12:15] <LjL> cool
[12:16] <ohir> though still I need to get rid of unregged
[12:16] <LjL> well yeah
[12:16] <ohir> LjL: thanks
[12:16] <LjL> would you like to get kicked automatically too? :P
[12:16] <LjL> i'm not sure others would appreciate that :D
[12:16] <ohir> from unregged? yes
[12:16] <ohir> LjL: only if autoinvite kicks in
[12:16] <LjL> ohir: also you do know you can opt out of being redirected to other channels? that way you'd not end up in unregged
[12:17] <LjL> ohir: yeah but you must understand that people are often confused by things like /invite. actually even plain messages can confuse them enough. so kicking them would be, uhm...
[12:17] <LjL> i can already imagine the "WHY DID YOU KICK ME I DIDNT DO ANYTHING"s in here
[12:17] <ohir> LjL: for most 'by-hand' users it would be good too. Prove you're protein based then autoinvite on #ubuntu and kick from unregg
[12:17] <ohir> heh
[12:17] <ohir> yep, you're right
[12:18] <LjL> ohir: work in the frame of mind that given the bots give people the message "Type /join #ubuntu to join now", oftentimes people type
[12:18] <LjL>  /join #ubuntu to join now
[12:18] <LjL> that's how people are
[12:18] <ohir> "tell me a first two letters and I will autoinvite you back to main channel and kick you from there"
[12:19] <LjL> but then they won't be able to see the explanatory message that comes up *after* they've given the answer
[12:19] <ohir> will promote read&understand attitude
[12:20] <ohir> "tell me more" "end with +A to get autoinvited"
[12:20] <LjL> well if i really wanted to promote that, i wouldn't have added this questions thing in the first place - just let them register :P
[12:20] <LjL> hmm
[12:20] <LjL> i guess i could do that, but it wouldn't be any use in your case (i.e. no answer, just invite-on-registered-user)
[12:20] <ohir> LjL: I am telling about extending current behavior for users who understand
[12:21] <ohir> I know in my case it is not. But others may use it
[12:21] <LjL> honestly i doubt it. people who are in -unregged actually answering their question are mostly clueless... the clueful people have registered already. so i don't think having them kicked would help them any
[12:22] <ohir> if they register by hand (incurring enough delay for nickserv to update) they never got to unregg in first place
[12:23] <ohir> others may use it (or not, so then it is feature for plain fun :)
[12:23] <ohir> real solution is +M mode forr channel
[12:24] <LjL> what is +M?
[12:24] <ohir> Mute unregged
[12:24] <LjL> ah, that's +q $~a
[12:24] <LjL> (on this network)
[12:24] <ohir> IIRC 1996 talks about what would be nice to have
[12:24] <LjL> used to be +R
[12:25] <LjL> however, +r is only temporary in #ubuntu, it usually is free-for-all
[12:25] <LjL> (though that's increasingly rare these days :\)
[12:25] <ohir> on ircnet +R was just about real ident service
[12:25] <LjL> so muting all unregistered users isn't really an option
[12:25] <ohir> LjL it is an option
[12:25] <LjL> well here, on Hyperion, we used to have +r = only registered users can join and +R = only registered users can speak
[12:26] <ohir> LjL: new unregisterred user comes. She is muted on #main but she is being drawn to unreg
[12:26] <LjL> the problem is *old* unregistered users
[12:26] <LjL> if you are already in #ubuntu because you joined while +r wasn't set, you really should not suddenly end up muted
[12:27] <LjL> and the notice that the server sent on trying to speak while +
[12:27] <ohir> hm.....
[12:27] <LjL> +R was suboptimal, last time i checked
[12:27] <ohir> LjL: but at least it can solve join-spam-run bots
[12:28] <ohir> LjL. +M3
[12:28] <LjL> so can sporadic +r, and it's doing it just fine :P
[12:28] <ohir> mute unregged for 3 secs
[12:28] <LjL> that doesn't exist here
[12:28] <LjL> there's no way to have something like that, and i doubt Seven developers would add it at my request ;)
[12:29] <ohir> hm, I need charybids source and some time to dig in. It would be fun to see how nowadays ircd looks inside
[12:30] <LjL> i'm not familiar with it either
[12:30] <ohir> AFAIR seven is fork of charybdis
[12:32] <ohir> I am not so sure if they would not
[12:32] <LjL> well i'm leaving for a bit now. thanks for the input :)
[12:32] <ohir> each and every irc network has same problem with spammers
[12:32] <LjL> oh, well, you try asking them. honestly, i'm not in the best of relationships with freenode staff ;(
[12:32] <ohir> :)
[12:32] <ohir> np
[12:33] <ohir> and thanks for the floodbot todays play :)
[12:33] <ohir> cu
[12:33] <LjL> o/
[12:38] <bazhang> Jordan_U, saw that, in future please call !ops in such a case (+1)
[12:44] <nhandler> FYI, using 'nick:password' as the server password should cause you to be identified prior to joining channels.
[12:45] <bazhang> yep. just no idea how to do that in irssi
[12:47] <nhandler> bazhang: /SERVER ADD -auto -network worknet irc.mycompany.com 6667 password
[12:47] <nhandler> That is from http://www.irssi.org/documentation/startup
[12:49] <bazhang> nhandler, thanks
[12:49] <bazhang> using xchat here, have yet to take that leap
[12:49] <gnomefreak> irssi here. cant you just add it to the servers section (the top of /conf
[12:49] <gnomefreak> )
[12:50] <gnomefreak> here is my settings http://pastebin.com/fY1qUbSx  may that can help
[12:51] <gnomefreak> oh i think i dropped mozilla.org from conf. but it was added at the top section
[12:52] <gnomefreak> nope still there
[12:59] <nhandler> But it is probably best not to recommend editing the conf file by hand and instead to modify it from within irssi using the command I posted above (like the irssi folks recommend)
[13:09] <Tm_T> yup
[13:10] <Tm_T> less chances to break the syntax and thus parsing
[13:30] <bazhang> coke is having odd problems, refusing to answer questions
[13:38] <bazhang> seems to be trolling with the multiple mentions of Arch, and no actual tangible questions
[13:38] <ikonia> agreed
[13:41] <elky> er, so what he's wanting is a magic option to magically swap out the interface to whatever the user chooses at whim
[13:41] <elky> or am I reading it all wrong?
[13:41] <ikonia> nope
[13:41] <bazhang> yep, wants netbook unicorn edition
[13:41] <elky> lawl
[13:42] <elky> no no, what were the servants at the school in harry potter?
[13:42] <elky> the ones with the magic tables they put food on and it magically appeared on the real tables
[13:42] <maco> house elfes
[13:42] <maco> *elfs
[13:43] <elky> yes those.
[13:43] <elky> he wants netbook house elf edition
[13:44] <jussi> a house elky ? o.O
[13:44] <jussi> oh wait, elf
[13:44] <jussi> :D
[13:44] <bazhang> dobby edition
[13:44] <maco> quick, give her a sock?
[13:44] <elky> bazhang, lol
[13:44] <bazhang> maco, hehe
[13:47] <elky> Am I allowed to admit that I'm totally over the way the word cloud gets abused. I mean generally, to the point that nobody understands the basics of what it actually is?
[13:47] <ikonia> it annoys me
[13:49] <topyli> iirc kde now has desktop/netbook modes in the control center, just switch
[13:49] <elky> bazhang, alias webscale to mongodb?
[13:50] <bazhang> elky, not me!
[13:50] <elky> topyli, yeah, he rejected that though
[13:50] <topyli> ok, if something that does just what he wants is not what he wants, then he's difficult to help
[13:51] <bazhang> he's not even asking for help. just griping
[13:51] <elky> erm how does one alias with the bot?
[13:51] <bazhang>   factoid is <alias > other factoid ?
[13:52] <elky> ubottu, webscale-#ubuntu-offtopic is <alias> mongodb-#ubuntu-offtopic
[13:53] <maco> topyli: he wants to use normal ubuntu NOT netbook edition but without the hassle of reinstalling everything
[13:53] <elky> and without having to do stuff in gdm
[13:53] <bazhang> or even putting ubuntu-desktop in, has to be for computer illiterates or else he'd install ARCH
[13:54] <maco> install ubuntu-desktop and uninstall the ubuntu-netbook stuff so then no having to use gdm
[13:54] <elky> but that's not magically done for him
[13:54] <elky> if he has to do things he might as well do different things
[13:54] <elky> ^ that's about the best summary of his arguement I think
[13:55] <topyli> like go and play ice-hockey
[13:55] <elky> typical finn
[13:56] <elky> so who from the IRCC is going to UDS?
[13:56] <topyli> not so typical, i have my own teeth!
[13:56] <topyli> no uds for me
[13:58] <topyli> jussi is going if sponsored, i don't know how that went
[14:01] <elky> that the only intended in-person representation?
[14:13] <topyli> i don't know. we haven't discussed how many should go, as long as someone goes
[14:15] <elky> topyli, i'm just wondering who to check with since the invites went out yesterday
[14:15] <topyli> ah
[15:33] <IdleOne> @mark qwert #ubuntu user has been warned not to impersonate any of the ops with similar nicks.
[17:19] <ikonia> IdleOne: was he/she doing it again ?
[17:29] <jpds> it.
[19:29] <nigelb> if you folks didn't see -meeting... please take a look?
[19:29] <charlie-tca> rompeculos is having issues/swearing in #ubuntu-meeting
[19:30] <IdleOne> ikonia: yes he was impersonating maco
[19:32] <charlie-tca> Thank you, IdleOne
[19:33] <IdleOne> now we just need someone to do something about it
[19:34] <charlie-tca> Yes, it gets worse
[19:36] <IdleOne> Ubunterito and rompeculos are trolling in spanish in -meeting
[19:39] <Tm_T> half of the names in that hilight list aren't even ops there...
[19:39] <charlie-tca> Well, can anyone do anything there?
[19:39] <Tm_T> charlie-tca: if could, it would have been done I suppose
[19:40] <charlie-tca> Yeah, sorry for the question
[19:40] <Tm_T> no need to be sorry for that
[19:41] <IdleOne> Pici topyli jussi nhandler #ubuntu-meeting needs help now.
[19:45] <topyli> i'm mobile, don't have password for the ircc account handy
[19:45] <Tm_T> pici took care of it
[19:46] <Pici> \o
[19:46] <topyli> yay: )
[19:46] <IdleOne> may need to edit the access list in there some :)
[19:47] <topyli> indeed, make sure someone has access during meetings
[19:48] <IdleOne> I don't know that trolling is a big issue in there but yeah just in case
[19:49] <charlie-tca> never a big issue until it happens
[19:49] <Tm_T> best to ignore if there's no ops around, giving them the attention is all they're after
[20:18] <charlie-tca> That was why I didn't say anything
[22:37] <bazhang> glory to might aryans?  rocket16's quit message
[22:38] <bazhang> err mighty
 hey anyone no how i get bot net running
[22:57] <IdleOne> there are legitimate reasons for running a bot net
[22:57] <IdleOne> but without knowing the type of bot it is hard to answer that question
[22:58] <IdleOne> egghelp.org for eggdrop