[08:39] <thorwil> good morning!
[08:39] <thorwil> vish: seen saleel's post on the ayatana list?
[09:31] <vish> thorwil: hei.. ayatana?
[09:32] <vish> hmm.!
[09:32] <vish> oh well , there maybe hope for ubuntu-artowrk!
[09:34] <thorwil> vish: i'm a bit torn. it's rather off-topic on ayatana. still it warrants a reaction
[09:39] <vish> yeah, i think i should finally hit the list! and stop procrastinating
[11:02] <vish> thorwil: sent!
[11:03] <thorwil> ah, finally!
[11:03] <vish> i tried ! if no one wants to do anything then  " MEH! " ;p
[11:29] <vish> oh islington! a fellow omg critique ;)
[11:54] <thorwil> ?
[12:10] <thorwil> vish: looked through http://openetherpad.org/UbuntuArtwork
[12:11] <thorwil> vish: well done. i'd be tempted to drop the "fix the wiki", but then we would have to have something else
[12:30] <thorwil> vish, doctormo: i can neither login via openid, nor create a new user account on http://art.ubuntu-owl.org
[12:31] <thorwil> is this intentional? i thought it being a "sandbox" might well encompass pseudo-actual use
[12:35] <thorwil> if one looks at https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w- , by far the most branches are artwork. i think version-managed artwork/design should be encouraged. combining that with a ccmixter-like site might be tricky, though
[13:29] <vish> thorwil: thanks.. but atleast some clarity needs to be done with that wiki..
[16:44] <nils_> thorwil: (=
[16:55] <thorwil> nils_: o.o
[16:56] <nils_> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/ubuntu-artwork-crisis/
[16:56] <nils_> (=
[16:57] <thorwil> oh, i wrote that? how did that happen?
[17:00] <nils_> gg
[17:04] <troy_s> thorwil: Interesting post. You should probably elaborate.
[17:05] <thorwil> troy_s: already took me long and links to 2 other posts that are not exactly short
[17:05] <thorwil> troy_s: but what exactly should i elaborate on?
[17:05] <troy_s> thorwil: Although much of what Saleel suggests is actually in just about every single graphic design tome available. Namely, perhaps, the most important aspect of nailing down _just who is in creative control_. Often, sadly, there isn't someone. The ultimate arbitrator.
[17:06] <troy_s> thorwil: I'd think there is pretty good value there in the "What I have learnt" approach that Saleel outlined.
[17:06] <nils_>  Who now confirms(approves) what wall-paper will be by default?
[17:06] <troy_s> nils_: As it always has been.
[17:06] <troy_s> nils_: Although the machinations are often dark alchemy.
[17:07] <troy_s> nils_: The main issue there is likely much more complicated than what many believe to be a simple path.
[17:08] <nils_> lol
[17:09] <nils_> (
[17:10] <troy_s> nils_: To be entirely fair, though, collaborative creative work still is a new frontier. In fact, I have yet to be able to cite a successful campaign within the culture.
[17:11] <nils_> Strange...
[17:11] <troy_s> nils_: Is it?
[17:12] <nils_> Such not clear process
[17:12] <troy_s> nils_: Do you believe it is about process?
[17:13] <nils_>  Anything
[17:14] <troy_s> nils_: I believe that at least part of the issue is the inability to yield. I can't say I see a reason to _not_ yield.
[17:14] <nils_> To me it was simple interestingly as introduction process now is realised
[17:16] <troy_s> nils_: Sorry. Lost me.
[17:16] <nils_> So for whom all the same last solving word?
[17:16] <nils_> )
[17:17] <nils_> oh
[17:18] <nils_> my bad eng
[17:18] <nils_> (=
[17:23] <nils_> How it is possible to participate in artwork?
[17:24] <vish> thorwil: "UA crisis!" nice one ;)
[17:24] <vish> nils_: what artwork are you referring to?
[17:24] <troy_s> vish: Greets.
[17:25] <vish> troy_s: hey! despite warnings , it just had to hit send on that mail ! :(
[17:25] <vish> ;)
[17:25] <troy_s> vish: LOL.
[17:25] <troy_s> vish: Well... it is likely only ending up in about two people's spam box, so no loss.
[17:26] <vish> hehe! well , i can always say.. i tried ;)
[17:26] <troy_s> vish: You either have a rabble of folks with ... questionable ... thinking or ... well I yet to see the alternate.
[17:26] <nils_> vish: It is a lot of than. I the artist, the schedule, the sculptor.
[17:27] <vish> nils_: well , for starters , i suggest joining the mailing list and taking part in the conversation..
[17:28] <nils_> thank
[17:28] <vish> troy_s: hmm , well i do hope you can help guide us as busy as you can get.. ;)
[17:28] <troy_s> troy_s: If I had an answer, I'd happily share it.
[17:29] <vish> hehe ,^ signs of getting too old! talking to oneself ;p
[17:32] <troy_s> vish: Perfect
[17:32] <troy_s> vish: You would be correct. LOL.
[17:33] <troy_s> vish: I suppose figuring out what you want to accomplish?
[17:33] <vish> yea! thats the first part!
[17:34] <vish> either we do some work.. it doesnt have to be in Ubuntu alone.. there are other derivatives
[17:35] <vish> troy_s: Xubuntu *wants* help
[17:35] <vish> and i just noticed Edubuntu also wants help
[17:35] <troy_s> vish: Then find the person that is responsible for it. And that means, in no uncertain terms, the final arbitrator.
[17:35] <vish> troy_s: already did :)
[17:36] <vish> i spoke to the xubuntu team and they said they need help
[17:36] <troy_s> vish: That may very well also be unfortunate if the folks creating work disagree with the vision. See Ubuntu for gosh knows how long (and now likely has moved up the food chain to poor chaotic)
[17:36] <vish> the edubuntu team comment is from thorwil's psot
[17:36] <troy_s> vish: "They" is the stuffs of alien and war movies. Not a very good term.
[17:37] <vish> well , the team leaders.. the whatever they are called.. but Xubuntu wants to be helped ;)
[17:38] <troy_s> vish: I won't name the project, but at one point everyone agreed that X was the creative decision maker - the art director if you will. There was a sizable chunk of effort put into something. When the work was delivered, it turned out that for all of the apathy, A, B, C, D, E, F, and G actually wanted to participate (well past that point) and that in fact, X wasn't in control as much as lackey creative types 1, 2, 3 needed.
[17:39] <troy_s> vish: There is a _very_ good set of advice set out by Oldach and a few others. Make the risk clear. Up front. And get that much needed agreement long before a single pencil hits paper or a single pixel is pushed.
[17:40] <vish> troy_s: well , i believe i know which project that is.. but those aernt in full control now.. or atleast i know of.. lets see though..
[17:40] <troy_s> vish: Different project perhaps. All good intentions, but a distinct chunk of apathy up and until the delivery.
[18:40]  * thorwil approves vish's comment
[18:40] <thorwil> vish: add me to which list?
[18:41] <vish> thorwil: which list?
[18:42] <thorwil> vish: exactly. your comment on my blog
[18:42] <vish> thorwil: heh! that was in reply to jonathan ;p
[18:42] <thorwil> vish: nevermind, i didn't see the nesting
[18:42] <vish> adding "edubuntu"
[19:04] <thorwil> bloody inkscape likes to freeze in some cases, where you want to scale something you imported from another svg file ...
[20:26] <thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/itis-linux/
[20:55] <troy_s> thorwil: What face is that?
[20:57] <thorwil> troy_s: beziera customa from the scratch foundry
[21:10] <thorwil> good night!