/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/19/#ubuntu-manual.txt

thorwilgodbyk: i won't be at the meeting (except maybe first 10 minutes or so)19:40
thorwilgodbyk: all i can say is that i have a few concepts for a changed title page and that i can finish one soon. that's all i will contribute, anyway19:41
jenkinsyey i did not miss the meeting \0/ I thought it was yesterday19:44
dutchieooh, is it here or #ubuntu-meeting?19:45
ChrisWoollardit was moved to today19:47
thorwiln #ubuntu-manual19:47
godbykthorwil: 'kay. I'll let everyone know.19:49
godbyk(Where 'everyone' is whoever happens to show up.)19:49
nisshhim here as well :)19:51
ChrisWoollardthis meeting is in about 1 hour 10 mins, right?19:53
godbykChrisWoollard: I think so, yeah.19:53
jenkinsplease ping me when it starts I already forgot about it :(20:13
nisshhanyone know if humphreybc will be at the meeting?20:15
dutchiewell, he *should* be20:17
nisshhhehe20:17
godbykno idea20:17
nisshhhave to wait and see i guess, he didnt say he wasnt coming, so i dunno :)20:18
* dutchie just aimed a tweet in his general direction20:18
=== denise is now known as synergetic
godbykjenkins: The meeting is starting! The meeting is starting!21:00
jenkinsthanks godbyk21:00
dutchieo/21:00
xuacuo/21:00
ChrisWoollard\oo21:00
nisshh:)21:01
godbykSo who's in charge here, anyway?21:01
nisshhno idea21:01
* ChrisWoollard steps backwards21:01
nisshhgodbyk: guess we just need someone to chair the meeting>21:01
* Muscovy runs backwards.21:01
jenkinsI will chair it21:01
godbykYay!21:01
Muscovy:D21:01
* ChrisWoollard claps21:01
jenkins#startmeeting21:01
MootBotMeeting started at 15:01. The chair is jenkins.21:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]21:01
nisshhsure21:01
jenkins[topic] Maverick writing freeze?21:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Maverick writing freeze?21:02
dutchiehow much actual maverick writing has happened?21:02
jenkinsagenda is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings21:02
ChrisWoollardwasn't that supposed to be the 10th?21:02
MuscovyI thought so.21:03
jenkinshas this freeze happend?21:03
godbykNope.21:03
godbykHasn't happened yet.21:03
jenkinsIt was ment to be the 10th, does anyone know if everything is finished?21:03
godbykIt seems like there are a lot of UI freeze exceptions. I'm not sure which ones affect us, though.21:03
nisshhgodbyk: a lot of them21:04
godbykI have no idea if everything's finished, either.21:04
jenkinsthe installer and the background21:04
* godbyk hasn't been paying much attention. :-/21:04
ChrisWoollardthere are still outstanding bugs21:04
jenkinsrelease is three weeks today21:04
godbykWe should probably compile a list of things that still need to be done.21:04
godbykAlong with fixing the bugs, what stuff needs to be written, removed, updated, etc.?21:05
jenkinshttp://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo21:05
MootBotLINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo21:05
jenkinslets make the list here21:05
ChrisWoollardi know humphreybc log a bug for each thing to be done21:05
nisshhyes21:05
ChrisWoollardhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bugs21:05
godbykAre all of the appropriate bugs filed against the maverick milestones?21:06
ChrisWoollardI know that the multitouch stuff still needs to be done21:06
jenkinshttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-alpha has alot of bugs at the bottom21:06
ChrisWoollardi think so. But haven't checked21:06
dutchiei make it 8 bugs to fix there21:07
dutchie2 are in progress21:07
jenkinsand this ome https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-rc and a bug here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-final21:07
MuscovyWhoops, I left my complete bug on "Confirmed".21:07
ChrisWoollardcan you change it21:08
jenkinscan we make a bug number/link list in the pad21:08
MuscovyChanged.21:08
jenkinsone link per bug21:08
ChrisWoollardthis pad? http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/DAdFvmIvSx21:08
jenkinshttp://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo was the one i ment but I don't mind21:09
MootBotLINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo was the one i ment but I don't mind21:09
godbykIf the bugs are in launchpad, and we file them against the ubuntu-manual-maverick-rc milestone, then they'll all be in one place.21:09
jenkinsyea that makes sense21:09
godbykWe should also ensure that bugs are filed for UIFe's that affect us, too.21:09
dutchieyup21:10
ChrisWoollardin the pad can you put a desccription of what the bug is?21:10
MuscovyWhat are UIFe's?21:10
godbykSo for all bugs that are currently filed against -alpha that haven't been fixed, move them to -rc.21:10
jenkinsI am moving them now21:10
godbykMuscovy: UI freeze exceptions.21:10
MuscovyAh.21:10
godbykMuscovy: Changes that are made to the UI or things that affect the documentation after the UI freeze date has passed.21:11
godbykThe UI freeze date was 10 Sept.21:11
jenkinsthat is never stuck to21:11
godbykBut in typical fashion, the freeze is thawing a bit. :-)21:11
ChrisWoollardand Ben made such a nice graphic timeline too ;)21:11
godbykChrisWoollard: heh. yeah. he knows better, though. :-)21:12
jenkinsright everything is now targeted to the rc version21:12
godbykCool. Thanks, jenkins.21:13
godbykDo we need to migrate any of the blueprints?21:13
jenkins10 bugs that are comfirmed/in progress / incomplete . not sure on blue prints Iw ill have a look21:13
jenkinsI think we chould move them all over any objections?21:14
ChrisWoollardnope21:14
godbykworks for me.21:15
* jenkins does it.21:15
jenkinscan we get the bugs fixed by wednesday?21:15
godbykAre they done with the installer now?21:15
dutchiei'm sitting around doing nothing atm21:15
jenkinsI think so21:15
dutchieshould probably do some ump stuff, so i can pitch in with the bugs21:16
godbykSweet. jenkins, assign all bugs to dutchie!  ;-)21:16
jenkinshehe21:16
dutchiewell, not all of them21:16
ChrisWoollardrofl21:16
godbykWe also need to start reading through the manual, comparing all the step-by-step instructions with a clean install of Maverick to ensure no one's pulled any fast ones on us.21:16
godbykAdditionally, we need to review all the screenshots.21:17
dutchieare we going to start passing it on to dedicated proofreaders?21:17
godbykRemove any that are unnecessary and add ones that are necessary.21:17
jenkinsscreenshots is the next item21:17
godbykThat way we can get quickshot configured and ready to go.21:17
godbykoh, sorry.21:17
* godbyk hasn't looked at the agenda.21:17
godbykbrb21:17
nisshhjenkins: oh, that reminds me, i need to talk to you after the meeting about quickshot :)21:18
dutchiewon't take long :)21:18
jenkinsright all the blueprints are moved over any one got anything to add?21:18
jenkinscan we achive all bugs fixed by wednesday?21:18
ChrisWoollardre multitouch21:18
dutchiei reckon so21:18
jenkinsChrisWoollard: what about it21:18
ChrisWoollarddoes anybody know how it works, and how much we need to cover?21:19
ChrisWoollardin the manual?21:19
dutchiedo we need to cover any of it?21:19
ChrisWoollardthere is a bug21:19
nisshhi dont think so21:19
dutchienobody's got any multitouch stuff to play with21:19
jenkinsI think mention it, but unless anyone knows how it works then we can't go into much detail21:19
ChrisWoollardthat is my problem21:19
ChrisWoollardfair enough21:20
jenkinswhat big nuber is it?21:20
jenkins)bug21:20
ChrisWoollardhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/63055821:20
manualbotLaunchpad bug 630558 in ubuntu-manual "Multi-touch functionality in Maverick" [Medium,Confirmed]21:20
jenkinsYep I think mention it as a margin note and put a link to the wikipage21:21
jenkinsmake sense?21:21
ChrisWoollardthat will work21:21
jenkinsgood any one else before we move on?>21:22
jenkins[TOPIC] Screenhots21:22
MootBotNew Topic:  Screenhots21:22
jenkinsso that quickshot can be set up what are we doing about screenshots this release?21:22
jenkinsare there any we wish to remove or add?21:23
c7peditors should anwser right ?21:23
ChrisWoollardthe ubuntu one chapter looks a bit thin on screenshots21:23
jenkinsanyone can answer :)21:23
nisshhjenkins: obviously we need to go through and see which ones are now poinless21:24
nisshhpointless*21:24
nisshhbecause we do want to reduce the file size a lot dont we?21:24
jenkinsi am not sure if we are trying to reduce it that much21:25
jenkinswe are reomving the command line section right?21:25
godbykback21:25
nisshhjenkins: merging that with security21:25
nisshhand its already been done21:26
jenkinsI think ubuntu one could be added ChrisWoollard21:26
nisshhi got bugmail about it being fixed21:26
jenkinsso do we still need a terminal picture21:26
godbykFrom what I understand, the installation steps will be different, so we'll probably scratch those screenshots and grab completely different ones, depending on the steps required to install Ubuntu.21:26
jenkinsagreed21:26
godbykLet me see how the screenshots affect the pdf size.21:26
godbykone moment.21:26
nisshhjenkins: i think we do, just so people know that its the terminal, not something else21:26
ChrisWoollardi don't mind sorting the ubuntu one screenshots. I just need to work out how to install quickshot.21:27
jenkinsfair enough makes sense. Otherwise I think we got a good selection of screenshots last time.21:27
godbykwow21:27
nisshhyea21:27
godbykSo if I take out all the screenshots, the PDf is 498 Kb in size.21:27
ChrisWoollardlol21:27
nisshhgodbyk: and its like 4megs with isnt it?21:28
dutchiehow big is it with screenshots?21:28
jenkinsChrisWoollard: https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release is the ppa21:28
jenkinsYou need permission to access the server to add the screenshots to quickshot21:28
ChrisWoollardthx21:28
godbyklooks like about 4.5 MB with screenshots.21:28
nisshhfar out21:28
godbykso 4 MB of screenshots.21:29
jenkinsI can sort server permissons.21:29
ChrisWoollardcool21:29
jenkinsgodbyk has flan told you how to add quickshot to your server?21:29
nisshhgodbyk: thats exactly why we need fewer screenshots21:29
godbykA while back I ran all the PNGs through a compression program that reduced their size by a bit and recompiled the PDF. It didn't seem to affect the PDF size.21:29
jenkinsbut a picture speaks a thousand words21:29
godbykBut I'll try it again soon and see if I screwed something up last time.21:30
c7pwhy do you want to reduce the size of pdf ?21:30
godbykjenkins: nope. haven't heard from him in a while.21:30
dutchiebecause it's too big21:30
dutchie:)21:30
nisshhjenkins: yes, true, but i have noticed some of them seem rather pointless21:30
c7p4 mb big ?21:30
dutchiec7p: that's like asking "why do you want to make your program run faster?"21:30
godbyksome of the screenshots are fairly pointless.21:30
jenkinswe need to change f-spot screenshots with shotwell21:30
nisshhc7p: its too big to be accepted onto the CD image21:30
jenkinswhich ones are point less21:31
godbykjenkins: I'll have to flip through again and let you know.21:31
nisshhyea21:31
jenkinsI thought the quick start guide would be aiming for the cd21:31
nisshhi cant remember21:31
c7pi have many ebooks like ours type of manual they are almost 4 mb and even more21:31
godbykOT: I keep meaning to have folks help out and glossary entries, index entries, and improving the screenshot captions, but never get around to writing the emails.21:31
c7pif there is a plan to add it on the live cd ok that counts21:31
jenkinsI agree with c7p21:32
jenkins4.5mb is fine21:32
jenkinsok as far as screenshots I will start a mailing list thread21:32
godbykhumphreybc was chatting with some folks the other day about getting the pdf on the cd.21:32
dutchiethere's hardly an argument against making it smaller21:32
godbykI don't know what he found out in the end, though.21:32
jenkinsk so moving on21:32
jenkins[AOB]21:32
nisshhgodbyk: he told me that in order to get it accepted, it had to be much smaller21:32
jenkins[TOPIC} AOB21:33
MootBotNew Topic: [TOPIC} AOB21:33
godbyknisshh: do we have a target size?21:33
* jenkins gets there21:33
nisshhgodbyk: dont think so, but ben said under 2megs was what he wanted to try to get21:33
godbykMan, my head's just not in the game this release cycle. I have no idea what other stuff there is to do. :)21:33
godbykI just wait for people to give me small, bite-size tasks to do occasionally.21:34
nisshhhehe21:34
jenkinscan we not make a cut down version for the cd?21:34
jenkinsthe first half or something21:34
nisshhjenkins: wouldnt be fair to have half the manual on CD and the rest off, be pointless21:35
jenkinsI ment miss out the advanced section21:35
godbykjenkins: that's something ben and I discussed.21:35
godbykand I think it's a possibility, if there's a good cut-off point.21:35
nisshhjenkins: thats like saying, "heres the first part, the other part will cost you $14.95"21:35
nisshhexcept it wont cost them anything21:36
nisshhit just makes more work on their part21:36
jenkinshmm but I don't think you can scrap enough screenshots for it to make sense and still fit21:36
jenkinssurley we are not aiming to get on the cd this release?21:37
nisshhjenkins: well, once we all have a look at the current screenshots, i think there are 1 or 2 we could easily scrap21:37
nisshhjenkins: wont happen anyway, its far too late to ask21:37
godbykI don't know that there's a serious attempt to get on the CD this release.21:37
godbykAt least, there's no one doing the legwork to make it happen.21:37
nisshhthere isnt21:37
jenkinswe really need a beginner to decide which ones are no use. To me I don;t need any of the screenshots21:37
c7ppictures are crucial to the better understandinf of the manual's content guys, ubuntu manual is for starters and a starter wants to see in pictures what do you mean in the text (most of times)21:37
nisshhbut theres no reason we cant start optimizing it21:38
jenkinsI agree with nisshh and c7p21:38
jenkinswe need to look at ways to optimize it in the long run21:38
jenkinskeeping as many screenshots21:38
nisshhyes21:38
nisshhi agree they are still crucial21:38
nisshhjust a bugger when it comes to file size21:39
jenkinsright so thats agreed.21:39
jenkinsyep21:39
jenkinsAnyone else with anyother items/topics21:39
c7palmost everyone has internet connection today, the manual dont's have to be on the cd.It may be downloaded during the installation with all the translation packages21:39
godbykI think we should strive to regular meetings every other week.21:39
jenkinsI also agree godbyk21:40
godbykThat way we continue the momentum, reduce the number of surprise/last-minute meetings, etc.21:40
c7pjenkins: when the writing of the manual stops ?21:40
jenkins[ACTION] jenkins to set date for two weeks tine21:40
MootBotACTION received:  jenkins to set date for two weeks tine21:40
jenkinsI guess we should aim for wednesday21:40
jenkinsto freeze writing21:41
godbykI think Saturday at 20:00 UTC was found to work best for everyone in general, though that may have changed since we have new people (and some of the original folks have left).21:41
godbykjenkins: by writing freeze, does that include editing?21:41
ChrisWoollardI would have said no stopping edditing.21:42
ChrisWoollardor even editing21:42
godbykI think the editing has to continue past that date.21:42
jenkinswell it depends on how much time we have21:42
ChrisWoollardespecially as i remember the last release21:42
godbykare any translators chomping at the bit to start translating maverick?21:42
jenkinspeople who have time is what i ment21:43
jenkinswhat would be a final edit date that makes sense godbyk?21:43
godbykjenkins: I think we basically edited up until the rc, but I could be mis-remembering.21:44
nisshhurh, godbyk i just compiled the manual, the went to go 'make show' and its now recompiling it...21:44
godbyk(actually for lucid-e1, I did editing even after that in a separate branch. and that branch is what generated the final pdf/book.)21:44
godbyknisshh: did you compile with just 'make' (no args)?21:44
nisshhgodbyk: yes21:44
godbykweird.21:44
nisshhi reckon someone edited the makefile21:45
jenkinsok erm lets stop writing by wednesday and editing by rc21:45
godbyknisshh: I probably borked the makefile at some point along the way.21:45
nisshhgodbyk: something like that yes21:45
jenkinsany objections21:45
godbykjenkins: sounds good to me.21:45
c7phave you checked the new installer ? i read it changed a lot21:46
godbykif we're inviting others to help us edit again (like we did with omg!ubuntu! readers last time), we should do it a week or more prior to the rc so we have time to incorporate those edits.21:46
jenkinsI think we should do it on wednesday compile a version a post it on omg ubuntu21:46
ChrisWoollardand make sure they do a compile before they commit21:47
godbykjenkins: sounds like a plan.21:47
nisshhgodbyk: ok, that was strange, once it recompiled it, then it showed the pdf...21:47
jenkinsc7p: yep we are aware thanks21:47
ChrisWoollardto make sure it works21:47
nisshhvery munted21:47
godbykI'll put on my flame-retardant suit and bite my tongue on Wednesday then. :)21:47
c7pjenkins: ok nice to hear that21:47
jenkinsdutchie: does the bug form work?21:47
godbyknisshh: yeah, that means the makefile thought some underlying file changed between your first 'make' and your second 'make show'. so it recompiled to get the latest pdf before showing it.21:47
godbyk'make show' will compile the pdf automatically if it's out of date before showing it.21:48
dutchiejenkins: it *works*21:48
dutchieit's not very pretty21:48
dutchieand it's very slow21:48
godbykdutchie: think we can get it prettied up by wednesday?21:48
jenkinscan we get it to go any faster?21:48
godbykdaker may be able to help if he can spare some time.21:48
godbyk(I know he's busy on our other sites, too.)21:48
dutchiegodbyk: pretty, yes, fast, maybe21:49
jenkinswhat is causing the slowness?21:49
godbykif it's too slow to be usable, we could fall back on the google spreadsheet form again. that seemed to work moderately well last time.21:49
dutchiejenkins: launchpad21:49
jenkinsmay be the docs form might be easier if we want to make it quick for people21:50
nisshhgodbyk: oh, well that is silly :)21:50
jenkinsI guess we should decide the screenshots by wednesday as well21:51
jenkinsok any one else before i end the meeting21:51
jenkinsanyone?21:52
jenkins#endmeeting21:52
ChrisWoollardno21:52
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:52.21:52
jenkinsgood thanks everyone so lets get fixing bugs21:53
c7pgodbyk there is a member of the greek community that wants to start latex, do you have any ebook or a page in mind ?21:53
c7pnice meeting btw21:53
godbykc7p: what does he/she want to do with latex?21:53
jenkinsI will send a mailing list message with the minutes and about the screenshots21:53
godbykjenkins: thanks for running the meeting!21:54
jenkinsno problem about the only thing i have time to do atm :(21:54
c7pgodbyk to tell you the truth i dont know specifically21:55
xuacuthank you all, guys, nice meeting21:55
xuacubye!21:55
c7pbye xuacu21:55
godbykc7p: is he/she wanting to just learn latex in general? or help with the manual or what?21:56
jenkinsbye xuacu21:56
c7pjust to learn21:56
godbykc7p: You might check out http://www.eutypon.gr/ to see if they have handy resources in Greek.21:57
godbykIf she/he is open to English resources, there's plenty out there.21:57
godbykif they want a book, I'd recommend The LaTeX Companion.  It'll cover more than they ever want to know. :)21:57
c7pok thank you very much :)21:58
godbykc7p: If you find out what they'd like to do to start with, I can give more specific recommendations.21:59
c7pgodbyk you 're the best :P22:00
godbyk:_22:02
godbykjenkins: whatever you do, don't let that ChrisWoollard guy join quickshotdevs!  ;-)22:03
jenkinslol22:04
jenkinsChrisWoollard: do you want server acces?22:04
ChrisWoollardwhat22:05
ChrisWoollardoi22:05
nisshhlol22:05
ChrisWoollardchecky22:05
ChrisWoollardcheeky even22:05
ChrisWoollardyes please22:06
* jenkins works out how22:07
jenkinsChrisWoollard: whats your launchpad openid?22:08
ChrisWoollard https://launchpad.net/~cwoollard22:08
jenkinsgo to http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/ it works but needs making pretty and login with the launchpad open id url22:10
jenkinschoose the "getting started..." and then click manage settings int he top right22:11
ChrisWoollardhmmm, scary looking22:14
jenkinsit will look pretty in the long run22:15
ChrisWoollardSo how does this actually work?22:16
jenkinsdo you have skype ChrisWoollard? it may be easier to explain if you don't mind22:16
jenkinsother wise i can try and type22:16
ChrisWoollardi do22:17
c7pnight all keep up the good job ;)22:28
jenkinsright night all I have work in the morning22:38

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