[19:40] <thorwil> godbyk: i won't be at the meeting (except maybe first 10 minutes or so)
[19:41] <thorwil> godbyk: all i can say is that i have a few concepts for a changed title page and that i can finish one soon. that's all i will contribute, anyway
[19:44] <jenkins> yey i did not miss the meeting \0/ I thought it was yesterday
[19:45] <dutchie> ooh, is it here or #ubuntu-meeting?
[19:47] <ChrisWoollard> it was moved to today
[19:47] <thorwil> n #ubuntu-manual
[19:49] <godbyk> thorwil: 'kay. I'll let everyone know.
[19:49] <godbyk> (Where 'everyone' is whoever happens to show up.)
[19:51] <nisshh> im here as well :)
[19:53] <ChrisWoollard> this meeting is in about 1 hour 10 mins, right?
[19:53] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I think so, yeah.
[20:13] <jenkins> please ping me when it starts I already forgot about it :(
[20:15] <nisshh> anyone know if humphreybc will be at the meeting?
[20:17] <dutchie> well, he *should* be
[20:17] <nisshh> hehe
[20:17] <godbyk> no idea
[20:18] <nisshh> have to wait and see i guess, he didnt say he wasnt coming, so i dunno :)
[20:18]  * dutchie just aimed a tweet in his general direction
[21:00] <godbyk> jenkins: The meeting is starting! The meeting is starting!
[21:00] <jenkins> thanks godbyk
[21:00] <dutchie> o/
[21:00] <xuacu> o/
[21:00] <ChrisWoollard> \oo
[21:01] <nisshh> :)
[21:01] <godbyk> So who's in charge here, anyway?
[21:01] <nisshh> no idea
[21:01]  * ChrisWoollard steps backwards
[21:01] <nisshh> godbyk: guess we just need someone to chair the meeting>
[21:01]  * Muscovy runs backwards.
[21:01] <jenkins> I will chair it
[21:01] <godbyk> Yay!
[21:01] <Muscovy> :D
[21:01]  * ChrisWoollard claps
[21:01] <jenkins> #startmeeting
[21:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is jenkins.
[21:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:01] <nisshh> sure
[21:02] <jenkins> [topic] Maverick writing freeze?
[21:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick writing freeze?
[21:02] <dutchie> how much actual maverick writing has happened?
[21:02] <jenkins> agenda is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[21:02] <ChrisWoollard> wasn't that supposed to be the 10th?
[21:03] <Muscovy> I thought so.
[21:03] <jenkins> has this freeze happend?
[21:03] <godbyk> Nope.
[21:03] <godbyk> Hasn't happened yet.
[21:03] <jenkins> It was ment to be the 10th, does anyone know if everything is finished?
[21:03] <godbyk> It seems like there are a lot of UI freeze exceptions. I'm not sure which ones affect us, though.
[21:04] <nisshh> godbyk: a lot of them
[21:04] <godbyk> I have no idea if everything's finished, either.
[21:04] <jenkins> the installer and the background
[21:04]  * godbyk hasn't been paying much attention. :-/
[21:04] <ChrisWoollard> there are still outstanding bugs
[21:04] <jenkins> release is three weeks today
[21:04] <godbyk> We should probably compile a list of things that still need to be done.
[21:05] <godbyk> Along with fixing the bugs, what stuff needs to be written, removed, updated, etc.?
[21:05] <jenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo
[21:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo
[21:05] <jenkins> lets make the list here
[21:05] <ChrisWoollard> i know humphreybc log a bug for each thing to be done
[21:05] <nisshh> yes
[21:05] <ChrisWoollard> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bugs
[21:06] <godbyk> Are all of the appropriate bugs filed against the maverick milestones?
[21:06] <ChrisWoollard> I know that the multitouch stuff still needs to be done
[21:06] <jenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-alpha has alot of bugs at the bottom
[21:06] <ChrisWoollard> i think so. But haven't checked
[21:07] <dutchie> i make it 8 bugs to fix there
[21:07] <dutchie> 2 are in progress
[21:07] <jenkins> and this ome https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-rc and a bug here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-final
[21:07] <Muscovy> Whoops, I left my complete bug on "Confirmed".
[21:08] <ChrisWoollard> can you change it
[21:08] <jenkins> can we make a bug number/link list in the pad
[21:08] <Muscovy> Changed.
[21:08] <jenkins> one link per bug
[21:08] <ChrisWoollard> this pad? http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/DAdFvmIvSx
[21:09] <jenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo was the one i ment but I don't mind
[21:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo was the one i ment but I don't mind
[21:09] <godbyk> If the bugs are in launchpad, and we file them against the ubuntu-manual-maverick-rc milestone, then they'll all be in one place.
[21:09] <jenkins> yea that makes sense
[21:09] <godbyk> We should also ensure that bugs are filed for UIFe's that affect us, too.
[21:10] <dutchie> yup
[21:10] <ChrisWoollard> in the pad can you put a desccription of what the bug is?
[21:10] <Muscovy> What are UIFe's?
[21:10] <godbyk> So for all bugs that are currently filed against -alpha that haven't been fixed, move them to -rc.
[21:10] <jenkins> I am moving them now
[21:10] <godbyk> Muscovy: UI freeze exceptions.
[21:10] <Muscovy> Ah.
[21:11] <godbyk> Muscovy: Changes that are made to the UI or things that affect the documentation after the UI freeze date has passed.
[21:11] <godbyk> The UI freeze date was 10 Sept.
[21:11] <jenkins> that is never stuck to
[21:11] <godbyk> But in typical fashion, the freeze is thawing a bit. :-)
[21:11] <ChrisWoollard> and Ben made such a nice graphic timeline too ;)
[21:12] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: heh. yeah. he knows better, though. :-)
[21:12] <jenkins> right everything is now targeted to the rc version
[21:13] <godbyk> Cool. Thanks, jenkins.
[21:13] <godbyk> Do we need to migrate any of the blueprints?
[21:13] <jenkins> 10 bugs that are comfirmed/in progress / incomplete . not sure on blue prints Iw ill have a look
[21:14] <jenkins> I think we chould move them all over any objections?
[21:14] <ChrisWoollard> nope
[21:15] <godbyk> works for me.
[21:15]  * jenkins does it.
[21:15] <jenkins> can we get the bugs fixed by wednesday?
[21:15] <godbyk> Are they done with the installer now?
[21:15] <dutchie> i'm sitting around doing nothing atm
[21:15] <jenkins> I think so
[21:16] <dutchie> should probably do some ump stuff, so i can pitch in with the bugs
[21:16] <godbyk> Sweet. jenkins, assign all bugs to dutchie!  ;-)
[21:16] <jenkins> hehe
[21:16] <dutchie> well, not all of them
[21:16] <ChrisWoollard> rofl
[21:16] <godbyk> We also need to start reading through the manual, comparing all the step-by-step instructions with a clean install of Maverick to ensure no one's pulled any fast ones on us.
[21:17] <godbyk> Additionally, we need to review all the screenshots.
[21:17] <dutchie> are we going to start passing it on to dedicated proofreaders?
[21:17] <godbyk> Remove any that are unnecessary and add ones that are necessary.
[21:17] <jenkins> screenshots is the next item
[21:17] <godbyk> That way we can get quickshot configured and ready to go.
[21:17] <godbyk> oh, sorry.
[21:17]  * godbyk hasn't looked at the agenda.
[21:17] <godbyk> brb
[21:18] <nisshh> jenkins: oh, that reminds me, i need to talk to you after the meeting about quickshot :)
[21:18] <dutchie> won't take long :)
[21:18] <jenkins> right all the blueprints are moved over any one got anything to add?
[21:18] <jenkins> can we achive all bugs fixed by wednesday?
[21:18] <ChrisWoollard> re multitouch
[21:18] <dutchie> i reckon so
[21:18] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: what about it
[21:19] <ChrisWoollard> does anybody know how it works, and how much we need to cover?
[21:19] <ChrisWoollard> in the manual?
[21:19] <dutchie> do we need to cover any of it?
[21:19] <ChrisWoollard> there is a bug
[21:19] <nisshh> i dont think so
[21:19] <dutchie> nobody's got any multitouch stuff to play with
[21:19] <jenkins> I think mention it, but unless anyone knows how it works then we can't go into much detail
[21:19] <ChrisWoollard> that is my problem
[21:20] <ChrisWoollard> fair enough
[21:20] <jenkins> what big nuber is it?
[21:20] <jenkins> )bug
[21:20] <ChrisWoollard> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/630558
[21:20] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 630558 in ubuntu-manual "Multi-touch functionality in Maverick" [Medium,Confirmed]
[21:21] <jenkins> Yep I think mention it as a margin note and put a link to the wikipage
[21:21] <jenkins> make sense?
[21:21] <ChrisWoollard> that will work
[21:22] <jenkins> good any one else before we move on?>
[21:22] <jenkins> [TOPIC] Screenhots
[21:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Screenhots
[21:22] <jenkins> so that quickshot can be set up what are we doing about screenshots this release?
[21:23] <jenkins> are there any we wish to remove or add?
[21:23] <c7p> editors should anwser right ?
[21:23] <ChrisWoollard> the ubuntu one chapter looks a bit thin on screenshots
[21:23] <jenkins> anyone can answer :)
[21:24] <nisshh> jenkins: obviously we need to go through and see which ones are now poinless
[21:24] <nisshh> pointless*
[21:24] <nisshh> because we do want to reduce the file size a lot dont we?
[21:25] <jenkins> i am not sure if we are trying to reduce it that much
[21:25] <jenkins> we are reomving the command line section right?
[21:25] <godbyk> back
[21:25] <nisshh> jenkins: merging that with security
[21:26] <nisshh> and its already been done
[21:26] <jenkins> I think ubuntu one could be added ChrisWoollard
[21:26] <nisshh> i got bugmail about it being fixed
[21:26] <jenkins> so do we still need a terminal picture
[21:26] <godbyk> From what I understand, the installation steps will be different, so we'll probably scratch those screenshots and grab completely different ones, depending on the steps required to install Ubuntu.
[21:26] <jenkins> agreed
[21:26] <godbyk> Let me see how the screenshots affect the pdf size.
[21:26] <godbyk> one moment.
[21:26] <nisshh> jenkins: i think we do, just so people know that its the terminal, not something else
[21:27] <ChrisWoollard> i don't mind sorting the ubuntu one screenshots. I just need to work out how to install quickshot.
[21:27] <jenkins> fair enough makes sense. Otherwise I think we got a good selection of screenshots last time.
[21:27] <godbyk> wow
[21:27] <nisshh> yea
[21:27] <godbyk> So if I take out all the screenshots, the PDf is 498 Kb in size.
[21:27] <ChrisWoollard> lol
[21:28] <nisshh> godbyk: and its like 4megs with isnt it?
[21:28] <dutchie> how big is it with screenshots?
[21:28] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release is the ppa
[21:28] <jenkins> You need permission to access the server to add the screenshots to quickshot
[21:28] <ChrisWoollard> thx
[21:28] <godbyk> looks like about 4.5 MB with screenshots.
[21:28] <nisshh> far out
[21:29] <godbyk> so 4 MB of screenshots.
[21:29] <jenkins> I can sort server permissons.
[21:29] <ChrisWoollard> cool
[21:29] <jenkins> godbyk has flan told you how to add quickshot to your server?
[21:29] <nisshh> godbyk: thats exactly why we need fewer screenshots
[21:29] <godbyk> A while back I ran all the PNGs through a compression program that reduced their size by a bit and recompiled the PDF. It didn't seem to affect the PDF size.
[21:29] <jenkins> but a picture speaks a thousand words
[21:30] <godbyk> But I'll try it again soon and see if I screwed something up last time.
[21:30] <c7p> why do you want to reduce the size of pdf ?
[21:30] <godbyk> jenkins: nope. haven't heard from him in a while.
[21:30] <dutchie> because it's too big
[21:30] <dutchie> :)
[21:30] <nisshh> jenkins: yes, true, but i have noticed some of them seem rather pointless
[21:30] <c7p> 4 mb big ?
[21:30] <dutchie> c7p: that's like asking "why do you want to make your program run faster?"
[21:30] <godbyk> some of the screenshots are fairly pointless.
[21:30] <jenkins> we need to change f-spot screenshots with shotwell
[21:30] <nisshh> c7p: its too big to be accepted onto the CD image
[21:31] <jenkins> which ones are point less
[21:31] <godbyk> jenkins: I'll have to flip through again and let you know.
[21:31] <nisshh> yea
[21:31] <jenkins> I thought the quick start guide would be aiming for the cd
[21:31] <nisshh> i cant remember
[21:31] <c7p> i have many ebooks like ours type of manual they are almost 4 mb and even more
[21:31] <godbyk> OT: I keep meaning to have folks help out and glossary entries, index entries, and improving the screenshot captions, but never get around to writing the emails.
[21:31] <c7p> if there is a plan to add it on the live cd ok that counts
[21:32] <jenkins> I agree with c7p
[21:32] <jenkins> 4.5mb is fine
[21:32] <jenkins> ok as far as screenshots I will start a mailing list thread
[21:32] <godbyk> humphreybc was chatting with some folks the other day about getting the pdf on the cd.
[21:32] <dutchie> there's hardly an argument against making it smaller
[21:32] <godbyk> I don't know what he found out in the end, though.
[21:32] <jenkins> k so moving on
[21:32] <jenkins> [AOB]
[21:32] <nisshh> godbyk: he told me that in order to get it accepted, it had to be much smaller
[21:33] <jenkins> [TOPIC} AOB
[21:33] <MootBot> New Topic: [TOPIC} AOB
[21:33] <godbyk> nisshh: do we have a target size?
[21:33]  * jenkins gets there
[21:33] <nisshh> godbyk: dont think so, but ben said under 2megs was what he wanted to try to get
[21:33] <godbyk> Man, my head's just not in the game this release cycle. I have no idea what other stuff there is to do. :)
[21:34] <godbyk> I just wait for people to give me small, bite-size tasks to do occasionally.
[21:34] <nisshh> hehe
[21:34] <jenkins> can we not make a cut down version for the cd?
[21:34] <jenkins> the first half or something
[21:35] <nisshh> jenkins: wouldnt be fair to have half the manual on CD and the rest off, be pointless
[21:35] <jenkins> I ment miss out the advanced section
[21:35] <godbyk> jenkins: that's something ben and I discussed.
[21:35] <godbyk> and I think it's a possibility, if there's a good cut-off point.
[21:35] <nisshh> jenkins: thats like saying, "heres the first part, the other part will cost you $14.95"
[21:36] <nisshh> except it wont cost them anything
[21:36] <nisshh> it just makes more work on their part
[21:36] <jenkins> hmm but I don't think you can scrap enough screenshots for it to make sense and still fit
[21:37] <jenkins> surley we are not aiming to get on the cd this release?
[21:37] <nisshh> jenkins: well, once we all have a look at the current screenshots, i think there are 1 or 2 we could easily scrap
[21:37] <nisshh> jenkins: wont happen anyway, its far too late to ask
[21:37] <godbyk> I don't know that there's a serious attempt to get on the CD this release.
[21:37] <godbyk> At least, there's no one doing the legwork to make it happen.
[21:37] <nisshh> there isnt
[21:37] <jenkins> we really need a beginner to decide which ones are no use. To me I don;t need any of the screenshots
[21:37] <c7p> pictures are crucial to the better understandinf of the manual's content guys, ubuntu manual is for starters and a starter wants to see in pictures what do you mean in the text (most of times)
[21:38] <nisshh> but theres no reason we cant start optimizing it
[21:38] <jenkins> I agree with nisshh and c7p
[21:38] <jenkins> we need to look at ways to optimize it in the long run
[21:38] <jenkins> keeping as many screenshots
[21:38] <nisshh> yes
[21:38] <nisshh> i agree they are still crucial
[21:39] <nisshh> just a bugger when it comes to file size
[21:39] <jenkins> right so thats agreed.
[21:39] <jenkins> yep
[21:39] <jenkins> Anyone else with anyother items/topics
[21:39] <c7p> almost everyone has internet connection today, the manual dont's have to be on the cd.It may be downloaded during the installation with all the translation packages
[21:39] <godbyk> I think we should strive to regular meetings every other week.
[21:40] <jenkins> I also agree godbyk
[21:40] <godbyk> That way we continue the momentum, reduce the number of surprise/last-minute meetings, etc.
[21:40] <c7p> jenkins: when the writing of the manual stops ?
[21:40] <jenkins> [ACTION] jenkins to set date for two weeks tine
[21:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  jenkins to set date for two weeks tine
[21:40] <jenkins> I guess we should aim for wednesday
[21:41] <jenkins> to freeze writing
[21:41] <godbyk> I think Saturday at 20:00 UTC was found to work best for everyone in general, though that may have changed since we have new people (and some of the original folks have left).
[21:41] <godbyk> jenkins: by writing freeze, does that include editing?
[21:42] <ChrisWoollard> I would have said no stopping edditing.
[21:42] <ChrisWoollard> or even editing
[21:42] <godbyk> I think the editing has to continue past that date.
[21:42] <jenkins> well it depends on how much time we have
[21:42] <ChrisWoollard> especially as i remember the last release
[21:42] <godbyk> are any translators chomping at the bit to start translating maverick?
[21:43] <jenkins> people who have time is what i ment
[21:43] <jenkins> what would be a final edit date that makes sense godbyk?
[21:44] <godbyk> jenkins: I think we basically edited up until the rc, but I could be mis-remembering.
[21:44] <nisshh> urh, godbyk i just compiled the manual, the went to go 'make show' and its now recompiling it...
[21:44] <godbyk> (actually for lucid-e1, I did editing even after that in a separate branch. and that branch is what generated the final pdf/book.)
[21:44] <godbyk> nisshh: did you compile with just 'make' (no args)?
[21:44] <nisshh> godbyk: yes
[21:44] <godbyk> weird.
[21:45] <nisshh> i reckon someone edited the makefile
[21:45] <jenkins> ok erm lets stop writing by wednesday and editing by rc
[21:45] <godbyk> nisshh: I probably borked the makefile at some point along the way.
[21:45] <nisshh> godbyk: something like that yes
[21:45] <jenkins> any objections
[21:45] <godbyk> jenkins: sounds good to me.
[21:46] <c7p> have you checked the new installer ? i read it changed a lot
[21:46] <godbyk> if we're inviting others to help us edit again (like we did with omg!ubuntu! readers last time), we should do it a week or more prior to the rc so we have time to incorporate those edits.
[21:46] <jenkins> I think we should do it on wednesday compile a version a post it on omg ubuntu
[21:47] <ChrisWoollard> and make sure they do a compile before they commit
[21:47] <godbyk> jenkins: sounds like a plan.
[21:47] <nisshh> godbyk: ok, that was strange, once it recompiled it, then it showed the pdf...
[21:47] <jenkins> c7p: yep we are aware thanks
[21:47] <ChrisWoollard> to make sure it works
[21:47] <nisshh> very munted
[21:47] <godbyk> I'll put on my flame-retardant suit and bite my tongue on Wednesday then. :)
[21:47] <c7p> jenkins: ok nice to hear that
[21:47] <jenkins> dutchie: does the bug form work?
[21:47] <godbyk> nisshh: yeah, that means the makefile thought some underlying file changed between your first 'make' and your second 'make show'. so it recompiled to get the latest pdf before showing it.
[21:48] <godbyk> 'make show' will compile the pdf automatically if it's out of date before showing it.
[21:48] <dutchie> jenkins: it *works*
[21:48] <dutchie> it's not very pretty
[21:48] <dutchie> and it's very slow
[21:48] <godbyk> dutchie: think we can get it prettied up by wednesday?
[21:48] <jenkins> can we get it to go any faster?
[21:48] <godbyk> daker may be able to help if he can spare some time.
[21:48] <godbyk> (I know he's busy on our other sites, too.)
[21:49] <dutchie> godbyk: pretty, yes, fast, maybe
[21:49] <jenkins> what is causing the slowness?
[21:49] <godbyk> if it's too slow to be usable, we could fall back on the google spreadsheet form again. that seemed to work moderately well last time.
[21:49] <dutchie> jenkins: launchpad
[21:50] <jenkins> may be the docs form might be easier if we want to make it quick for people
[21:50] <nisshh> godbyk: oh, well that is silly :)
[21:51] <jenkins> I guess we should decide the screenshots by wednesday as well
[21:51] <jenkins> ok any one else before i end the meeting
[21:52] <jenkins> anyone?
[21:52] <jenkins> #endmeeting
[21:52] <ChrisWoollard> no
[21:52] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:52.
[21:53] <jenkins> good thanks everyone so lets get fixing bugs
[21:53] <c7p> godbyk there is a member of the greek community that wants to start latex, do you have any ebook or a page in mind ?
[21:53] <c7p> nice meeting btw
[21:53] <godbyk> c7p: what does he/she want to do with latex?
[21:53] <jenkins> I will send a mailing list message with the minutes and about the screenshots
[21:54] <godbyk> jenkins: thanks for running the meeting!
[21:54] <jenkins> no problem about the only thing i have time to do atm :(
[21:55] <c7p> godbyk to tell you the truth i dont know specifically
[21:55] <xuacu> thank you all, guys, nice meeting
[21:55] <xuacu> bye!
[21:55] <c7p> bye xuacu
[21:56] <godbyk> c7p: is he/she wanting to just learn latex in general? or help with the manual or what?
[21:56] <jenkins> bye xuacu
[21:56] <c7p> just to learn
[21:57] <godbyk> c7p: You might check out http://www.eutypon.gr/ to see if they have handy resources in Greek.
[21:57] <godbyk> If she/he is open to English resources, there's plenty out there.
[21:57] <godbyk> if they want a book, I'd recommend The LaTeX Companion.  It'll cover more than they ever want to know. :)
[21:58] <c7p> ok thank you very much :)
[21:59] <godbyk> c7p: If you find out what they'd like to do to start with, I can give more specific recommendations.
[22:00] <c7p> godbyk you 're the best :P
[22:02] <godbyk> :_
[22:03] <godbyk> jenkins: whatever you do, don't let that ChrisWoollard guy join quickshotdevs!  ;-)
[22:04] <jenkins> lol
[22:04] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: do you want server acces?
[22:05] <ChrisWoollard> what
[22:05] <ChrisWoollard> oi
[22:05] <nisshh> lol
[22:05] <ChrisWoollard> checky
[22:05] <ChrisWoollard> cheeky even
[22:06] <ChrisWoollard> yes please
[22:07]  * jenkins works out how
[22:08] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: whats your launchpad openid?
[22:08] <ChrisWoollard>  https://launchpad.net/~cwoollard
[22:10] <jenkins> go to http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/ it works but needs making pretty and login with the launchpad open id url
[22:11] <jenkins> choose the "getting started..." and then click manage settings int he top right
[22:14] <ChrisWoollard> hmmm, scary looking
[22:15] <jenkins> it will look pretty in the long run
[22:16] <ChrisWoollard> So how does this actually work?
[22:16] <jenkins> do you have skype ChrisWoollard? it may be easier to explain if you don't mind
[22:16] <jenkins> other wise i can try and type
[22:17] <ChrisWoollard> i do
[22:28] <c7p> night all keep up the good job ;)
[22:38] <jenkins> right night all I have work in the morning