[19:40] godbyk: i won't be at the meeting (except maybe first 10 minutes or so) [19:41] godbyk: all i can say is that i have a few concepts for a changed title page and that i can finish one soon. that's all i will contribute, anyway [19:44] yey i did not miss the meeting \0/ I thought it was yesterday [19:45] ooh, is it here or #ubuntu-meeting? [19:47] it was moved to today [19:47] n #ubuntu-manual [19:49] thorwil: 'kay. I'll let everyone know. [19:49] (Where 'everyone' is whoever happens to show up.) [19:51] im here as well :) [19:53] this meeting is in about 1 hour 10 mins, right? [19:53] ChrisWoollard: I think so, yeah. [20:13] please ping me when it starts I already forgot about it :( [20:15] anyone know if humphreybc will be at the meeting? [20:17] well, he *should* be [20:17] hehe [20:17] no idea [20:18] have to wait and see i guess, he didnt say he wasnt coming, so i dunno :) [20:18] * dutchie just aimed a tweet in his general direction === denise is now known as synergetic [21:00] jenkins: The meeting is starting! The meeting is starting! [21:00] thanks godbyk [21:00] o/ [21:00] o/ [21:00] \oo [21:01] :) [21:01] So who's in charge here, anyway? [21:01] no idea [21:01] * ChrisWoollard steps backwards [21:01] godbyk: guess we just need someone to chair the meeting> [21:01] * Muscovy runs backwards. [21:01] I will chair it [21:01] Yay! [21:01] :D [21:01] * ChrisWoollard claps [21:01] #startmeeting [21:01] Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is jenkins. [21:01] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [21:01] sure [21:02] [topic] Maverick writing freeze? [21:02] New Topic: Maverick writing freeze? [21:02] how much actual maverick writing has happened? [21:02] agenda is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings [21:02] wasn't that supposed to be the 10th? [21:03] I thought so. [21:03] has this freeze happend? [21:03] Nope. [21:03] Hasn't happened yet. [21:03] It was ment to be the 10th, does anyone know if everything is finished? [21:03] It seems like there are a lot of UI freeze exceptions. I'm not sure which ones affect us, though. [21:04] godbyk: a lot of them [21:04] I have no idea if everything's finished, either. [21:04] the installer and the background [21:04] * godbyk hasn't been paying much attention. :-/ [21:04] there are still outstanding bugs [21:04] release is three weeks today [21:04] We should probably compile a list of things that still need to be done. [21:05] Along with fixing the bugs, what stuff needs to be written, removed, updated, etc.? [21:05] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo [21:05] LINK received: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo [21:05] lets make the list here [21:05] i know humphreybc log a bug for each thing to be done [21:05] yes [21:05] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bugs [21:06] Are all of the appropriate bugs filed against the maverick milestones? [21:06] I know that the multitouch stuff still needs to be done [21:06] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-alpha has alot of bugs at the bottom [21:06] i think so. But haven't checked [21:07] i make it 8 bugs to fix there [21:07] 2 are in progress [21:07] and this ome https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-rc and a bug here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-final [21:07] Whoops, I left my complete bug on "Confirmed". [21:08] can you change it [21:08] can we make a bug number/link list in the pad [21:08] Changed. [21:08] one link per bug [21:08] this pad? http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/DAdFvmIvSx [21:09] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo was the one i ment but I don't mind [21:09] LINK received: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo was the one i ment but I don't mind [21:09] If the bugs are in launchpad, and we file them against the ubuntu-manual-maverick-rc milestone, then they'll all be in one place. [21:09] yea that makes sense [21:09] We should also ensure that bugs are filed for UIFe's that affect us, too. [21:10] yup [21:10] in the pad can you put a desccription of what the bug is? [21:10] What are UIFe's? [21:10] So for all bugs that are currently filed against -alpha that haven't been fixed, move them to -rc. [21:10] I am moving them now [21:10] Muscovy: UI freeze exceptions. [21:10] Ah. [21:11] Muscovy: Changes that are made to the UI or things that affect the documentation after the UI freeze date has passed. [21:11] The UI freeze date was 10 Sept. [21:11] that is never stuck to [21:11] But in typical fashion, the freeze is thawing a bit. :-) [21:11] and Ben made such a nice graphic timeline too ;) [21:12] ChrisWoollard: heh. yeah. he knows better, though. :-) [21:12] right everything is now targeted to the rc version [21:13] Cool. Thanks, jenkins. [21:13] Do we need to migrate any of the blueprints? [21:13] 10 bugs that are comfirmed/in progress / incomplete . not sure on blue prints Iw ill have a look [21:14] I think we chould move them all over any objections? [21:14] nope [21:15] works for me. [21:15] * jenkins does it. [21:15] can we get the bugs fixed by wednesday? [21:15] Are they done with the installer now? [21:15] i'm sitting around doing nothing atm [21:15] I think so [21:16] should probably do some ump stuff, so i can pitch in with the bugs [21:16] Sweet. jenkins, assign all bugs to dutchie! ;-) [21:16] hehe [21:16] well, not all of them [21:16] rofl [21:16] We also need to start reading through the manual, comparing all the step-by-step instructions with a clean install of Maverick to ensure no one's pulled any fast ones on us. [21:17] Additionally, we need to review all the screenshots. [21:17] are we going to start passing it on to dedicated proofreaders? [21:17] Remove any that are unnecessary and add ones that are necessary. [21:17] screenshots is the next item [21:17] That way we can get quickshot configured and ready to go. [21:17] oh, sorry. [21:17] * godbyk hasn't looked at the agenda. [21:17] brb [21:18] jenkins: oh, that reminds me, i need to talk to you after the meeting about quickshot :) [21:18] won't take long :) [21:18] right all the blueprints are moved over any one got anything to add? [21:18] can we achive all bugs fixed by wednesday? [21:18] re multitouch [21:18] i reckon so [21:18] ChrisWoollard: what about it [21:19] does anybody know how it works, and how much we need to cover? [21:19] in the manual? [21:19] do we need to cover any of it? [21:19] there is a bug [21:19] i dont think so [21:19] nobody's got any multitouch stuff to play with [21:19] I think mention it, but unless anyone knows how it works then we can't go into much detail [21:19] that is my problem [21:20] fair enough [21:20] what big nuber is it? [21:20] )bug [21:20] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/630558 [21:20] Launchpad bug 630558 in ubuntu-manual "Multi-touch functionality in Maverick" [Medium,Confirmed] [21:21] Yep I think mention it as a margin note and put a link to the wikipage [21:21] make sense? [21:21] that will work [21:22] good any one else before we move on?> [21:22] [TOPIC] Screenhots [21:22] New Topic: Screenhots [21:22] so that quickshot can be set up what are we doing about screenshots this release? [21:23] are there any we wish to remove or add? [21:23] editors should anwser right ? [21:23] the ubuntu one chapter looks a bit thin on screenshots [21:23] anyone can answer :) [21:24] jenkins: obviously we need to go through and see which ones are now poinless [21:24] pointless* [21:24] because we do want to reduce the file size a lot dont we? [21:25] i am not sure if we are trying to reduce it that much [21:25] we are reomving the command line section right? [21:25] back [21:25] jenkins: merging that with security [21:26] and its already been done [21:26] I think ubuntu one could be added ChrisWoollard [21:26] i got bugmail about it being fixed [21:26] so do we still need a terminal picture [21:26] From what I understand, the installation steps will be different, so we'll probably scratch those screenshots and grab completely different ones, depending on the steps required to install Ubuntu. [21:26] agreed [21:26] Let me see how the screenshots affect the pdf size. [21:26] one moment. [21:26] jenkins: i think we do, just so people know that its the terminal, not something else [21:27] i don't mind sorting the ubuntu one screenshots. I just need to work out how to install quickshot. [21:27] fair enough makes sense. Otherwise I think we got a good selection of screenshots last time. [21:27] wow [21:27] yea [21:27] So if I take out all the screenshots, the PDf is 498 Kb in size. [21:27] lol [21:28] godbyk: and its like 4megs with isnt it? [21:28] how big is it with screenshots? [21:28] ChrisWoollard: https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release is the ppa [21:28] You need permission to access the server to add the screenshots to quickshot [21:28] thx [21:28] looks like about 4.5 MB with screenshots. [21:28] far out [21:29] so 4 MB of screenshots. [21:29] I can sort server permissons. [21:29] cool [21:29] godbyk has flan told you how to add quickshot to your server? [21:29] godbyk: thats exactly why we need fewer screenshots [21:29] A while back I ran all the PNGs through a compression program that reduced their size by a bit and recompiled the PDF. It didn't seem to affect the PDF size. [21:29] but a picture speaks a thousand words [21:30] But I'll try it again soon and see if I screwed something up last time. [21:30] why do you want to reduce the size of pdf ? [21:30] jenkins: nope. haven't heard from him in a while. [21:30] because it's too big [21:30] :) [21:30] jenkins: yes, true, but i have noticed some of them seem rather pointless [21:30] 4 mb big ? [21:30] c7p: that's like asking "why do you want to make your program run faster?" [21:30] some of the screenshots are fairly pointless. [21:30] we need to change f-spot screenshots with shotwell [21:30] c7p: its too big to be accepted onto the CD image [21:31] which ones are point less [21:31] jenkins: I'll have to flip through again and let you know. [21:31] yea [21:31] I thought the quick start guide would be aiming for the cd [21:31] i cant remember [21:31] i have many ebooks like ours type of manual they are almost 4 mb and even more [21:31] OT: I keep meaning to have folks help out and glossary entries, index entries, and improving the screenshot captions, but never get around to writing the emails. [21:31] if there is a plan to add it on the live cd ok that counts [21:32] I agree with c7p [21:32] 4.5mb is fine [21:32] ok as far as screenshots I will start a mailing list thread [21:32] humphreybc was chatting with some folks the other day about getting the pdf on the cd. [21:32] there's hardly an argument against making it smaller [21:32] I don't know what he found out in the end, though. [21:32] k so moving on [21:32] [AOB] [21:32] godbyk: he told me that in order to get it accepted, it had to be much smaller [21:33] [TOPIC} AOB [21:33] New Topic: [TOPIC} AOB [21:33] nisshh: do we have a target size? [21:33] * jenkins gets there [21:33] godbyk: dont think so, but ben said under 2megs was what he wanted to try to get [21:33] Man, my head's just not in the game this release cycle. I have no idea what other stuff there is to do. :) [21:34] I just wait for people to give me small, bite-size tasks to do occasionally. [21:34] hehe [21:34] can we not make a cut down version for the cd? [21:34] the first half or something [21:35] jenkins: wouldnt be fair to have half the manual on CD and the rest off, be pointless [21:35] I ment miss out the advanced section [21:35] jenkins: that's something ben and I discussed. [21:35] and I think it's a possibility, if there's a good cut-off point. [21:35] jenkins: thats like saying, "heres the first part, the other part will cost you $14.95" [21:36] except it wont cost them anything [21:36] it just makes more work on their part [21:36] hmm but I don't think you can scrap enough screenshots for it to make sense and still fit [21:37] surley we are not aiming to get on the cd this release? [21:37] jenkins: well, once we all have a look at the current screenshots, i think there are 1 or 2 we could easily scrap [21:37] jenkins: wont happen anyway, its far too late to ask [21:37] I don't know that there's a serious attempt to get on the CD this release. [21:37] At least, there's no one doing the legwork to make it happen. [21:37] there isnt [21:37] we really need a beginner to decide which ones are no use. To me I don;t need any of the screenshots [21:37] pictures are crucial to the better understandinf of the manual's content guys, ubuntu manual is for starters and a starter wants to see in pictures what do you mean in the text (most of times) [21:38] but theres no reason we cant start optimizing it [21:38] I agree with nisshh and c7p [21:38] we need to look at ways to optimize it in the long run [21:38] keeping as many screenshots [21:38] yes [21:38] i agree they are still crucial [21:39] just a bugger when it comes to file size [21:39] right so thats agreed. [21:39] yep [21:39] Anyone else with anyother items/topics [21:39] almost everyone has internet connection today, the manual dont's have to be on the cd.It may be downloaded during the installation with all the translation packages [21:39] I think we should strive to regular meetings every other week. [21:40] I also agree godbyk [21:40] That way we continue the momentum, reduce the number of surprise/last-minute meetings, etc. [21:40] jenkins: when the writing of the manual stops ? [21:40] [ACTION] jenkins to set date for two weeks tine [21:40] ACTION received: jenkins to set date for two weeks tine [21:40] I guess we should aim for wednesday [21:41] to freeze writing [21:41] I think Saturday at 20:00 UTC was found to work best for everyone in general, though that may have changed since we have new people (and some of the original folks have left). [21:41] jenkins: by writing freeze, does that include editing? [21:42] I would have said no stopping edditing. [21:42] or even editing [21:42] I think the editing has to continue past that date. [21:42] well it depends on how much time we have [21:42] especially as i remember the last release [21:42] are any translators chomping at the bit to start translating maverick? [21:43] people who have time is what i ment [21:43] what would be a final edit date that makes sense godbyk? [21:44] jenkins: I think we basically edited up until the rc, but I could be mis-remembering. [21:44] urh, godbyk i just compiled the manual, the went to go 'make show' and its now recompiling it... [21:44] (actually for lucid-e1, I did editing even after that in a separate branch. and that branch is what generated the final pdf/book.) [21:44] nisshh: did you compile with just 'make' (no args)? [21:44] godbyk: yes [21:44] weird. [21:45] i reckon someone edited the makefile [21:45] ok erm lets stop writing by wednesday and editing by rc [21:45] nisshh: I probably borked the makefile at some point along the way. [21:45] godbyk: something like that yes [21:45] any objections [21:45] jenkins: sounds good to me. [21:46] have you checked the new installer ? i read it changed a lot [21:46] if we're inviting others to help us edit again (like we did with omg!ubuntu! readers last time), we should do it a week or more prior to the rc so we have time to incorporate those edits. [21:46] I think we should do it on wednesday compile a version a post it on omg ubuntu [21:47] and make sure they do a compile before they commit [21:47] jenkins: sounds like a plan. [21:47] godbyk: ok, that was strange, once it recompiled it, then it showed the pdf... [21:47] c7p: yep we are aware thanks [21:47] to make sure it works [21:47] very munted [21:47] I'll put on my flame-retardant suit and bite my tongue on Wednesday then. :) [21:47] jenkins: ok nice to hear that [21:47] dutchie: does the bug form work? [21:47] nisshh: yeah, that means the makefile thought some underlying file changed between your first 'make' and your second 'make show'. so it recompiled to get the latest pdf before showing it. [21:48] 'make show' will compile the pdf automatically if it's out of date before showing it. [21:48] jenkins: it *works* [21:48] it's not very pretty [21:48] and it's very slow [21:48] dutchie: think we can get it prettied up by wednesday? [21:48] can we get it to go any faster? [21:48] daker may be able to help if he can spare some time. [21:48] (I know he's busy on our other sites, too.) [21:49] godbyk: pretty, yes, fast, maybe [21:49] what is causing the slowness? [21:49] if it's too slow to be usable, we could fall back on the google spreadsheet form again. that seemed to work moderately well last time. [21:49] jenkins: launchpad [21:50] may be the docs form might be easier if we want to make it quick for people [21:50] godbyk: oh, well that is silly :) [21:51] I guess we should decide the screenshots by wednesday as well [21:51] ok any one else before i end the meeting [21:52] anyone? [21:52] #endmeeting [21:52] no [21:52] Meeting finished at 15:52. [21:53] good thanks everyone so lets get fixing bugs [21:53] godbyk there is a member of the greek community that wants to start latex, do you have any ebook or a page in mind ? [21:53] nice meeting btw [21:53] c7p: what does he/she want to do with latex? [21:53] I will send a mailing list message with the minutes and about the screenshots [21:54] jenkins: thanks for running the meeting! [21:54] no problem about the only thing i have time to do atm :( [21:55] godbyk to tell you the truth i dont know specifically [21:55] thank you all, guys, nice meeting [21:55] bye! [21:55] bye xuacu [21:56] c7p: is he/she wanting to just learn latex in general? or help with the manual or what? [21:56] bye xuacu [21:56] just to learn [21:57] c7p: You might check out http://www.eutypon.gr/ to see if they have handy resources in Greek. [21:57] If she/he is open to English resources, there's plenty out there. [21:57] if they want a book, I'd recommend The LaTeX Companion. It'll cover more than they ever want to know. :) [21:58] ok thank you very much :) [21:59] c7p: If you find out what they'd like to do to start with, I can give more specific recommendations. [22:00] godbyk you 're the best :P [22:02] :_ [22:03] jenkins: whatever you do, don't let that ChrisWoollard guy join quickshotdevs! ;-) [22:04] lol [22:04] ChrisWoollard: do you want server acces? [22:05] what [22:05] oi [22:05] lol [22:05] checky [22:05] cheeky even [22:06] yes please [22:07] * jenkins works out how [22:08] ChrisWoollard: whats your launchpad openid? [22:08] https://launchpad.net/~cwoollard [22:10] go to http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/ it works but needs making pretty and login with the launchpad open id url [22:11] choose the "getting started..." and then click manage settings int he top right [22:14] hmmm, scary looking [22:15] it will look pretty in the long run [22:16] So how does this actually work? [22:16] do you have skype ChrisWoollard? it may be easier to explain if you don't mind [22:16] other wise i can try and type [22:17] i do [22:28] night all keep up the good job ;) [22:38] right night all I have work in the morning