doctormonhandler: No manual entry for man.00:11
doctormoI dislike git SO much, how unsable is it's UI02:15
nhandlerdoctormo: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/en/man1/man.1posix.html02:20
JanCnhandler: there's also man(7)  ;)02:25
paultagdoctormo, git is super usable03:11
paultagdoctormo, just take your time and learn it :)03:11
pleia2good documentation for it is difficult to find, I <3 bzr because it has such amazing documentation with pretty pictures03:20
pleia2I seem to recall git magic being pretty good03:22
nhandlerbzr is not perfect. I tried playing around with pre-commit hooks, and it was a pita03:22
pleia2I still love svn, but that's because I don't tend to work on big projects and I have bash scripts of awesomeness built around bits of it ;)03:23
* nigelb blinks03:26
nigelbpleia2: svn fan? ohgodno03:26
nigelbdoctormo: +1 on git.  paultag and I have been doing awesome stuff on it independently :)03:37
paultagnigelb, git rules my socks.03:39
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
nigelbmine too ;)03:41
nigelbnowadays, I type git status on bzr branches :p03:41
nigelbAnd I also realized that its not just me, which is conforting03:41
paultagOh shiz nigelb03:43
paultagnigelb, I wrote tons of git tools I never told you about03:43
* nigelb kicks paultag 03:44
paultagnigelb, they're for doing branch reviews03:44
paultagnigelb, it works really really really well03:44
paultagnigelb, and even caches the branch tarball and stuff. It's allowed me to work about 200x faster without crossing branches03:44
paultagnigelb, check it out -- let's take this to PM03:44
aramorning all!07:34
kim0morning folks o/08:08
dpmgood morning everyone!08:08
dpmmorning kim008:08
kim0dpm: morning man08:09
dpmhey :)08:09
popeyYay! It's only 9AM and I've already been called Hitler this morning.09:21
dpmpopey, some people just start with a coffe, but that's something else09:26
dpmanyway, good morning :)09:26
=== cypher is now known as Guest49367
=== Guest49367 is now known as czajkowski
njmHey Guys, since I updated my Ubuntu 10.04 Remix on my netbook, my 3G USB Dongle doesn't work anymore...  It says: waiting for usb device to settle in dmesg.  Any ideas?10:04
vishhmm , the UDS sessions tracks seem confusing! or is it just me! o.010:19
vishthe community track seems clear though ;p10:20
czajkowskivish: where?10:24
czajkowskihttp://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/ nothing there10:24
vishczajkowski: the "tracks" are confusing.. last time , it was easier as desktop/design/community/..10:26
vishthis now seems like a huge mixedbag , and anything can be among those tracks..10:27
czajkowskioh it seems they are changing things around thistime10:27
czajkowskiI remember mdz doing a lot of feedback from uds last time10:27
vishhardware compatibility can be related to desktop/server..10:27
czajkowskithis must be the result10:27
vishhehe , not sure if others understand better though ;)10:28
vishnow where can a design bp go! ..10:28
vishivanka isnt even a track lead, is there no design track this time?10:29
vishdevelopment process can be the largest collection, everything can be in that one  ;p10:29
doctormopaultag: As far as git's UI goes, it doesn't have good suitable defaults, you can tell an expectant underdeveloped CLI when action commands have no context ability.11:57
doctormopaultag: For instance it should be possible to say (in some way) bzr go-back-one, but it isn't, because those sorts of shortcuts are considered superfluous to programmers, but good additions for designers.11:58
duanedesignmorning all12:35
doctormohey duanedesign, all booked?12:37
duanedesigndoctormo: am doing it this morning. Is their anything else i need to do as far as accomodations?12:42
doctormoduanedesign: The deadline is the 26th, be available on sunday and make sure you have enough money in paypal etc to push to me.12:42
duanedesigndoctormo: ok. How much will that be?12:43
doctormoduanedesign: Hopefully ~$180-$200, we'll have to see.12:44
doctormomorning jcastro13:32
kim0morning jcastro14:11
popeylo dinda14:15
dindahowdy popey14:15
dindapopey et al:  do you know of any schools using Ubuntu/edubuntu?14:17
AlanBellBishops Fox school14:18
dindasweet - thanks!14:19
czajkowskiI do love productive lunches14:23
czajkowskiplanning next conference before this one is even over14:23
dindaAlanBell: where is Bishops Fox located?14:25
AlanBellTaunton I think it is14:26
AlanBellA303, past StoneHenge, keep going for flippin ages14:27
popey"South west england" :)14:27
AlanBellalmost to daviey's place I think14:28
dindapopey: that Notre Dame school even does bespoke ICt consulting for 500 pounds/day14:33
dindanot a bad way to raise funds for your school14:34
cjohnstonjcastro: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/summit/+bug/63351514:40
ubot2Ubuntu bug 633515 in summit "Support white space in track names (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,Fix committed]14:40
popeyuhoh dinda has been got by the twitter virus14:45
dindapopey: yeah, was trying to follow paulhaigh of notre dame school and all heck broke loose14:45
czajkowskihappened me earlier on as well14:45
popeyyou're not alone, many people have been got by it14:45
dindapopey: how do i kill it?14:45
czajkowskihad to use gwibber and not use web14:45
czajkowskibut gwibber is acting up so...14:46
popeyit only affects you if you use the website14:46
popeyah, there is an easy fix14:46
popeyuse that instead14:46
popeyand delete the offending tweet14:46
popeyand then stay away from twitter.com until its all fixed14:46
jcastropopey: does that autorefresh?14:46
popeydoes what autorefresh?14:47
jcastrothat mobile twitter14:47
jcastrohttp://seesmic.com/app is what I use14:47
czajkowskijcastro: ello ello14:47
jcastroczajkowski: hi2u14:47
popeyjcastro: keep using seesmic14:47
jcastroI love it14:48
jcastrostick it in app mode = for the win14:48
czajkowskijcastro: want any more info added t the uds pages?14:48
jcastroit's all looking good!14:48
jcastropopey: I've been all webapp for 2 months14:48
czajkowskijcastro: asked itnet7 to give me some info on local info so waiting to add that.14:48
jcastroexcept for one, banshee14:48
jcastroczajkowski: yeah I suspect the local stuff won't fill out until right before14:48
czajkowskiand I've added the page for people to add their arrival departures but I dont think people are using the wiki, which was the idea but folks wanted the page, *shrugs*14:49
jcastroeveryone smile for my screenshot!14:49
popey   ____14:50
popey _|  _ \14:50
popey(_) | | |14:50
popey _| |_| |14:50
popey         14:50
popeystupid irc client14:53
popeydoes seesmic do identica?14:53
jcastrothat irc client is all web14:53
jcastro"built in screen"14:53
jcastro0 work on my part14:53
czajkowskinice layout14:53
jcastroit has problems, I'm more helping the guy by giving feedback14:54
jcastrooverflow of channels sucks for example, see the >>14:54
jcastrobut he's making good progress,  enough for me to seriously not /need/ irssi14:54
jcastrothough it can be painful sometimes14:54
popeynot sure I could switch away from irssi14:55
jcastroit's painful14:55
czajkowskijcastro: in what way ?14:56
jcastroI am wired for irssi14:56
dindaczajkowski: you heard of this group:  http://www.educatetogether.ie14:56
jcastrobut this has some nice features, it inlines pictures for example14:56
czajkowskidinda: nooooo14:57
dindaczajkowski: looks like they helped this school set up an edubuntu lab:  http://opensourceschools.org.uk/node/72914:58
czajkowskiI'll be ginving some talks soon to the one in Limerick14:59
czajkowskikids are older14:59
czajkowskiabout Ubuntu and how I got involved, how they can14:59
czajkowskiwhat they can do etc14:59
dindaczajkowski: in Ireland do computers come with MS pre-installed? or do you have to buy the OS separately?15:00
czajkowskipre installed with MS on them15:01
popeyyou can get some naked in the uk15:01
popeyAlanBell setup a website to list them http://nakedcomputers.org/15:01
AlanBellI did15:02
dindaczajkowski: nice on the talk.  if you happen to take any nice pics please post them15:02
czajkowskidinda: will do.  I did 3 talks last year in colleges, so hoping to try and do the same this time around15:02
AlanBellkind of lost interest in that project after getting a bit of a kicking about the logo15:02
czajkowskirunning next conference in May in UL so hoping to get the limerick school using Ubuntu at it15:02
dindaczajkowski: nice!15:03
czajkowskiAlanBell: meh logo was fine, but there are always gonna be people who see an issue with it.15:03
czajkowskidinda: you should come! education and ubuntu :D15:03
czajkowskidinda: I may even be able to get you sponsored.....15:03
dindaczajkowski: believe me, I'm working on it!15:03
czajkowskidinda: last weekend in May is waht I'm working at now15:03
dindaczajkowski: you have a website for the event?15:03
czajkowskithis was just decided at lunch time15:03
czajkowskidinda: atm ossbarcamp.com will have info on this weekends event, but I clear it down shortly afterwards for the next one15:04
jcastromaco: around?15:04
czajkowskidinda: ahhh15:05
macojcastro: yep, just got online15:05
macodid i break something?15:05
dindaI'm gathering up all the potential places we might want to make an appearance or sponsor someone to talk15:05
jcastromaco: we're trying to get people to vote more on SE, as in, vote up good questions, just passing the word around.15:05
czajkowskidinda: Limerick is nice in May :D15:05
czajkowskidinda: plus you know you want to come to Ireland15:05
dindaczajkowski: I've always wanted to visit Ireland15:05
czajkowskithis is a good  reason...15:06
czajkowskiyou should put plans in motion :D15:06
dindaczajkowski: I grew up in an Irish Catholic school, know more Irish folks songs than Spanish!15:06
czajkowskiI also need to sort out some speakers in Limerick over the next coming moths for my old uni15:06
czajkowskidinda: ahh yes :) I went to school with nuns15:06
czajkowskiscarey and nice people at the same time15:07
* AlanBell will book a family holiday to Co. Clare for last week in May15:07
czajkowskisee cogs are now in motion15:08
czajkowskibringing it up tonight at AGM which is also during loco council meeting.15:08
jussiczajkowski: Ive been chatting to my dad about putting together a "Loco pack" or so for loco's and other unitis looking for a promotional pack of printed goods with their loco name on it (at an affordable price). do you think this would be useful?15:41
czajkowskiyeah could be15:46
czajkowskisometimes folks get really cheap deals locally15:47
czajkowskiand i giess it'll depend on what's in it tbh15:47
jonohey all15:59
jonodpm, all set?15:59
dpmjono, can you give me 2 min to save the documentation with the portal proposal on the wiki?16:00
jonodpm, sure16:00
dpmthanks, nearly done16:00
dpmjono, ok, all set16:02
jonodpm, cool16:02
nigelbjussi: ahem, the "affordable" varies.16:11
nigelbThings are cheaper for us here rather than get it printed somewhere else16:11
jonokim0, hey16:19
kim0jono: hey16:19
jonoany more updates from IS re. the Cloud Portal?16:19
kim0jono: well I'm just fixing the ami viewer which is currently broken, once done, I'll bug them today16:20
jonokim0, thanks16:20
jonokim0, also, please go and add to the 11.04 plan which portal work actions you would like to do in 11.0416:20
jonokim0, think about what new work could benefit the portal16:21
kim0aye aye16:21
jonoto do this I would like you to reach out to Scott Moser, Dustin and Daviey to see what they think should be done16:21
kim0jono: sounds good16:22
jonokim0, I reviewed the other elements you put in there, they look good16:22
jonowhen you have added the portal additions lets hop on the phone and review it16:23
jonolater this week16:23
kim0jono: sure ..16:23
jonocheers kim016:25
jonoara, czajkowski, around?16:48
czajkowskiI am indeed16:48
czajkowskijono: sup?16:49
jonoI want to do a review of our existing resources and how easy it is to get involved (more on this is coming in a blog), but would you be happy to be one of the people involved in leading this assessment, and focusing on LoCos?16:49
jonomore details forthcoming16:49
jonoI would like to have someone else involved in LoCos to help, maybe paultag?16:49
jonopaultag, happy to help?16:49
czajkowskiif he can with college16:49
arajono, hello?16:51
jonoara, hey!16:52
jonoara, I want to do a review of our existing resources and how easy it is to get involved (more on this is coming in a blog), but would you be happy to be one of the people involved in leading this assessment, and focusing on QA and how people can help with bug triage?16:52
arajono, sure, count me in16:53
jonoara, awesome, is there someone in the community who you think would be interested in helping with this?16:53
jonoon the QA side16:53
jonoI pref want two people for each area to focus on it16:53
jonokim0, I want you to do the same for the Sever community, is that OK?16:54
arajono, for testing, charlie-tca, for bug triaging, kamusin?16:54
jonoara, do you think kamusin would be interested in helping?16:55
arawe need to ask :)16:55
jonoara, would you mind asking?16:55
jonothat is Victor, right?16:55
* kim0 reading16:55
jonodpm, I would like you to do this for the translations community16:56
jono a review of our existing resources and how easy it is to get involved (more on this is coming in a blog)16:56
kim0jono: generally sounds ok .. perhaps more info in our call16:56
jonokim0, yup16:56
jonogoing to be blogging about it today16:56
arayes, that's victor16:57
jonodoctormo, fancy helping with this to assess the art community?16:57
araI guess it all depends on the kind of task16:57
* kim0 now afk 16:57
jonothanks kim016:57
* doctormo is catching up16:58
jonoara, it won't be a lot of work16:58
dpmjono, sure. When do you need it? Would tomorrow be ok?16:58
jonoI basically want us to (a) assess what the on-ramp is for our communities, (b) how easy it is to get involved (c) how easy it is to find help, and (d) what improvements we need to make16:58
arajono, are you only interesting in bug triaging?16:58
jonodpm, no, not yet, thanks though16:58
jonodpm, I will mail out with a schedule16:59
dpmjono, ok, cool16:59
jonoara, I think all of QA might be ok too16:59
jonoara, lets do quality in general16:59
jonoI will send a mail to everyone with details of the plan16:59
jonoit will be coupled with a blog16:59
arajono, sounds good16:59
Pendulumjono: can I make a suggestion that you ask someone on the doc team for input? They're one of the teams that for new comers tends to feel like it has a higher barrier of entry (at least in my experience)16:59
jonoPendulum, that is on my list too :)17:00
doctormojono: You need an assessment of the art community? which one? users, contributors or marketers?17:00
jonoPendulum, who do you think would be two good people to lead the docs team effort?17:00
jonodoctormo, anyone who wants to participate17:00
macoPendulum: where higher barrier to entry is like a fortress wall?17:00
jonodoctormo, I am going to send details about how this will work, but are you happy to lead it?17:00
Pendulummaco: something like that. :P17:00
doctormojono: Sure, you have my bow.17:01
jonodoctormo, thanks17:01
jonomy devious plan is coming together :-)17:01
czajkowskijono: you're on fire aren't you today17:01
jononow if only I could cancel all these phone calls to actually do some work17:01
jonoczajkowski, heh, we will see :-)17:01
czajkowskijono: clearly older wiser ... :p17:02
Pendulumjono: probably mdke (who has been around a while) and maybe starcraftman (sightly newer and also involved in beginners team so will have a sense of how newbies see stuff)17:02
jonothanks Pendulum17:03
doctormojono: Your quotes are too easy to get creative with: http://imagebin.ca/view/OXURHX.html17:12
jonodoctormo, lol17:14
vishpopey: i think you might need to tickle jfo, into looking at the PrtSc bug ;)17:43
vishtoo many kernel bugs..17:43
nigelbok, so dholbach is still alive and yes he can survive without internet apparently: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs670.snc4/61062_1396153112840_1502583932_30893202_5982730_n.jpg18:28
jcastrohis hair looks great!18:36
popeyvish: good call!18:51
nigelbjcastro: heh, totally!19:34
jcastrohey vish19:35
jcastrodid we ever talk about fonts?19:35
jcastrolike packaging all those freely available fonts from google?19:35
vishjcastro: nope.. i dont recall that.19:36
jcastroI believe we were both interested in finding someone to do that, but I don't recall the details of our conversation19:36
vishwasnt me.. :)19:36
jcastroif you happen to run into a font conversation with someone who wants to help send them to me. :p19:37
vishsure thing! :)19:38
vishjcastro: when can we start filing blueprints?19:41
vishare the tracks final? i cant find a design track..19:41
sensegood evening19:47
vishhow to get a  http://art.ubuntu.com/  like  http://qa.ubuntu.com/  ?19:47
vishalmost every community team has a link on ubuntu.com ..19:48
sensevish: WordPress and theme ripoff!20:01
vishsense: hehe! i dint mean theme , but the u.c addy :)20:01
sensevish: In that case, ask the sysadmins real nice, I think.20:02
jcastrohey sense20:41
sensehi jcastro!20:41
senseHow're you doing?20:43
jcastrogood good20:43
jcastrojono: I'm ready whenevs20:57
jonojcastro, do we have a call?20:59
jononothing in my calendar20:59
jcastrodon't we always have a call EOD for me tuesdays?20:59
jcastroit used to be my "strategic thinking mentorship" call or something21:00
jonono we canceled them21:00
jcastroI am totally ok with that!21:00
jonoI don't think we need two calls a week21:00
* jcastro goes to do something else before he gets assigned something21:00
jonoparticularly as we get on the phone when we need to21:00
jonodon't need the mentoring calls now I am not thinking about firing you21:00
jcastroI love the way the guy says "you are fired!"21:01
macojono: youve stopped thinking and have decided?21:02
jonomaco, heh, not quite21:03
doctormojcastro: Not as good as Back to the Future, the way to fire someone is with a million fax machines around their house.21:13
highvoltagehey vish, how are things?21:23
AlanBellhumphreybc: o/21:23
humphreybcAlanBell: so who were you talking with?21:23
AlanBelloh all sorts21:23
AlanBellso we discussed the other day that humphreybc's OMG feed would techincally be eligible for the planet.ubuntu.com aggregator21:24
AlanBellit being posts from an Ubuntu member about Ubuntu21:24
vishhighvoltage: heya21:24
AlanBellso tell us what you think humphreybc21:25
vishhighvoltage: just a few getting things sorted out still.. you guys should try to think of the direction you want..21:25
humphreybcinstead of having two planet feeds, which would be weird21:25
humphreybcI figured I could just replace my current planet feed with my OMG! feed21:25
humphreybcthen i'll probably shut down my personal WP blog21:25
humphreybcas there isn't much point for it anymore, any personal stuff unrelated to Ubuntu I can blog at my website21:26
highvoltagevish: *nod* I'm collating ideas and messages and makeing sense of it all21:26
humphreybcso I simply have to change the feed from whatever it is now to this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/author/humphreybc/21:26
AlanBellon a technical level http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/author/humphreybc/feed goes to the wrong place21:27
humphreybclet me figure that out21:27
sensehumphreybc: Does that imply you see OMG!Ubuntu! as a personal blog, rather than a news platform?21:27
humphreybcsense: nope?21:27
vishwell , humphreybc has been pretty clear the OMG comments do not apply to COC and that OMG is not restricted by the COC..21:28
vishnot sure why this is being done :/21:28
sensehumphreybc: Just curious, because Planet Ubuntu used to be person based (before the Design Team was aggregated) and I thought that was its purpose.21:28
AlanBellthe code of conduct applies to people, not places21:28
humphreybcI would argue that OMG! is part of the community, like it or not, and I'm an ubuntu member21:29
humphreybcsense: we're not aggregating OMG! Ubuntu!21:29
czajkowskihumphreybc: taking that attitude doesnt help21:29
humphreybcwe're aggregating my particular feed21:29
humphreybcczajkowski: what attitude? Simply stating facts21:29
vishhumphreybc: its not that its not part of the community but when you highlight ridiculous comments its gets to be pretty obnoxious at times21:29
sensehumphreybc: I see that, but that is still a selection from the posts of OMG!Ubuntu!, not your personal musings.21:29
AlanBellBen has signed the CoC so it applies to what he writes at all times21:30
czajkowskihumphreybc: like it or not.... comments is not really polite tbh21:30
highvoltagesense: planet ubuntu is supposed to be a window into the the world of the developers that work on ubuntu21:30
sensehighvoltage: I hope more people than just developers.:)21:30
vishhighvoltage: would you highlight or delete silly obnoxious comments?21:30
vishon your blog ?21:30
highvoltagesense: indeed!21:30
senseI don't think that the CoC should apply to comments written by other people on your blog.21:30
humphreybcanyway, we have moderators too21:31
humphreybcit's not like there is any swearing21:31
vishsense: its does not have to apply , but it does matter when one is trying to gather them21:31
senseI just think that it would be a bad signal to other news blogs to include this one on the Planet, allowing it to reach a very wide audience, simply because one of the authors is an Ubuntu member.21:31
humphreybcand we try to keep the sexist, racist, etc comments down (although Nixie's posts seem to generate them pretty quickly)21:31
highvoltagewell, humphreybc is an ubuntu member, so he signed the CoC and it thereby implies to all ubuntu activities he conducts himself in21:31
senseWhat if Ryan Paul would aggregate his posts on Ars on the Planet?21:31
humphreybcsense: Isn't full circle magazine or some other news site on the planet?21:31
sensehumphreybc: Not sure, but if it is I'm against that.21:32
pleia2akgraner links her ubuntu user blog, so it's not like humphreybc's proposal is anything new21:32
vishhighvoltage: but he flirts with COC when he is at OMG.. thats the whole point..21:32
highvoltagehumphreybc: swearing is only offensive to old people these days, you can do a lot worse21:32
humphreybcpleia2: that's the one21:32
AlanBellsense: it would be a *great* signal to other news outlets that if they want to be on planet ubuntu they have to become members!21:32
pleia2as long as posts abide by the CoC, I don't see a problem with it21:32
sensepleia2: The thing is, that is her Ubuntu User BLOG, not her feed of articles written for tha magazine, right.21:32
pleia2(we all have problems with comments, I've had some pretty exceptional ones on some of my posts)21:32
highvoltageAlanBell: heh!21:33
pleia2sense: ubuntu user is a magazine, she writes the blog for the magazine21:33
pleia2they may not end up in print, but that's what it is21:33
sensePlanet Ubuntu should be a window into the world of people working on Ubuntu. You can say what you want about who is and isn't a part of the community, but covering Ubuntu news is not a contribution to the Ubuntu thing.21:33
vishsense: ++21:33
highvoltagewe have the fridge for news anyway.21:33
senseI was just going to say that.21:33
senseWe've got the Fridge for in-communtiy news.21:34
humphreybcsense: so you believe that OMG! Ubuntu! isn't helping the community?21:34
senseOutside coverage is excellent, very welcome, but should be independent.21:34
highvoltage(which has some problems but it's being revamped anyway)21:34
vishAlanBell: several times this has been mentioned that they can contribute to fridge..21:34
senseit does help the community, but it is not a part of the direct communtiy of people working on Ubuntu.21:34
pleia2humphreybc: you're welcome to ask the community council if there is a problem with inclusion, but I don't see one21:34
vishhumphreybc: it would be wrong to say that OMG does not help, but it has its pit falls , which you actively try to protect21:34
humphreybcsense: How do you define the "direct community?"21:35
humphreybcisn't that exclusion?21:35
AlanBellI think there have been changes, the moderation at OMG ubuntu has certainly improved the comments21:35
pleia2AlanBell: *nod*21:35
humphreybcwe -do- have a code of conduct too21:35
nigelbtechnically, we can't oppose tbh21:36
nigelbyou're well within planet rules to add your feed21:36
sensehumphreybc: You cannot include everyone who uses Ubuntu in the community of people who contribute to building Ubuntu. OMG!Ubuntu! is not a service from the people working on Ubuntu, but a independent news service, which happens to have some people writing for it who are also contributing to Ubuntu in a (more) direct manner.21:36
highvoltageyep, if humphreybc applied the CoC to those posts, then there's no reason why they can't be included21:36
pleia2sense: that statement is terribly confusing21:36
vishnigelb: technically its cant!21:36
AlanBelland OMG ubuntu is reaching a wide and somewhat mainstream audience, that audience has to be *part* of the community and we have to bring it in rather than push it away21:36
senseIf we'd allow humphreybc's OMG!Ubuntu! posts, then Ryan Paul's Ars technica posts should be allowed too if he wants too.21:36
pleia2AlanBell: I agree :)21:37
AlanBellsense: I see no issue with that21:37
AlanBellsense: has that request been denied?21:37
highvoltagewhoops, s/applied/applies/g21:37
pleia2no such request has been made AFAIK21:37
vishAlanBell: isnt planet blog an aggregate of ubuntu members or ubuntu teams?21:37
AlanBellvish: yes21:37
senseThe thing is, that are news sites, not personal blogs. You don't write there because you feel like blogging about something, or want to show the rest of the community what you've beenw orking on, but because something happened and you want to cover the story.21:37
senseIf you want to even approach something you call journalism you need independecy.21:37
macoi never had the impression when writing for any of the handful of other blogs ive written for that i could include posts from them on planet21:37
czajkowskiso are we now allowing businesses to add their blogs to planet ubuntu ?21:37
pleia2we've even welcome the FSF posts about ubuntu on the planet so long as there is a member taking care of them (FSF doesn't have ubuntu posts, it turns out, but we are open to it)21:38
AlanBellczajkowski: like my one?21:38
macoif i thought they were relevant, i would make a post on my aggregated blog with an "oh by the way.... <link>"21:38
highvoltagesense: OMG!Ubuntu is really much closer to a collaborative blog than a 'news site'21:38
vishAlanBell: isntOMGUbutnu part of OHSO a business oriented site?21:38
sensehighvoltage: There is a company behind it, I believe.21:38
pleia2czajkowski: we've been allowing businesses for about a year, there is a whole procedure for addition21:38
pleia2czajkowski: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu#Corporate Blogs21:38
humphreybcvish: It's part of a network, sure.21:38
AlanBellvish: yes and theopensourcerer.com is the blog associated with theopenlearningcentre.com21:38
czajkowskipleia2: yes and are omg going to ask for their feed under humphreybc to be added21:38
AlanBellmy /author/alanbell feed is syndicated to the planet21:39
czajkowskiAlanBell: aye did you go through the corporate blogs?21:39
* vish reads more about that..21:39
pleia2czajkowski: I invited him to ask the CC above21:39
AlanBellczajkowski: nope21:39
humphreybc"Planet Ubuntu is not only a window to the world of individuals who contribute to Ubuntu, it is also a place for companies."21:39
humphreybcthere are some guidelines21:39
czajkowskiAlanBell: then you probabvly should then as well21:39
senseWho changed that? That sounds horrible.21:39
macosense: its how dell ended up on the blog21:39
macoer on planet21:39
vishwhy were DELL blogs stopped?21:39
nigelbsome technical problem21:39
highvoltagesense: ask jono about it, I believe he was involved21:39
vishoh! they are back?21:39
pleia2vish: the feed broke and started sending non-ubuntu stuff accidentally :\21:40
nigelbremember we got flodded?21:40
AlanBellyeah, but those are for corporate blogs with non-members contributing21:40
macoi thought it was a social reason21:40
senseI think that non-human entitities have no place on Planet Ubuntu.21:40
macolike them promoting their windows systems on planet constantly21:40
nigelbalso, uupc is on planet21:40
humphreybcnon advertising nature, check. subset of blog entries (mine) - check. Community council, we can ask. 3 month trial (sure), one ubuntu member (me) and sustained and active interest.21:40
vishhumphreybc: what prevents you from posting on your own blog?21:40
pleia2humphreybc: yep21:40
senseThere is commercial interest here.21:40
popeyi removed dell from planet ubuntu21:40
senseThere are ads on OMG!Ubuntu!.21:40
vishhumphreybc: is this a promotional opportunity? of OHSO?21:41
humphreybcsense: not in the feed though21:41
pleia2sense: we don't have a problem with commercial entities21:41
pleia2we want to be inclusive of companies who are using and promoting ubuntu, that's why corporate blogs are allowed21:41
humphreybcat the moment I have to post on two blogs if I want to post the same message to planet, and OMG! (example: Ubuntu Manual announcements)21:41
popeymaco: the feed was broken21:41
humphreybcwould be easier for me if I could just post on one21:41
sensehumphreybc: You're using a news blog for personal announcements?21:41
macohm in that case ought to poke markdude about za's blog21:42
* maco thinks allowing corporate blogs was a bad idea to start with though21:42
vishmaco: +121:42
sensemaco: +121:42
highvoltagesense: surely there's an element of self-promotion for omg!ubuntu! here, but there's no rule against it.21:43
pleia2maco: an ubuntu member needs to take "ownership" of the feed in case Something Goes Wrong (like dell), so if there is a person who is in a position to do that it'd be great to see zareason's blog up there21:43
nigelbI'd be interested in knowing what AlanBell comes up with like the recent tie with vtiger.  I'm sure there would be other use cases.21:43
senseAnyway, I really need to go now, see you all everybody!21:43
nigelbSo coporate blogs isn't really that bad an idea.21:43
highvoltagenigelb: they're a good idea, if done right21:43
humphreybcAs Ubuntu grows, you're probably going to have more stuff happening like this21:43
pleia2I certainly understand the opposition to corporate blogs, I just don't agree, they are a vital part of our chasm-crossing strategy and it's nice that we have a way to show support for that21:44
pleia2yeah, you don't have to agree :)21:45
* maco would lol if a red hatter became a member and got red hat's blog on planet21:45
highvoltagepleia2: corporate blogs are now *vital* to our chasm-crossing strategy? yes, I'd like to disagree thanks :)21:45
maco(does rh have a blog?)21:45
AlanBellmy understanding of the "corporate blogs" thing was it relates to members managing a team blog including non-members21:45
vishyeah , why not!21:45
highvoltagepleia2: nice, perhaps. vital? I don't think so!21:45
pleia2maco: there are restrictions outlined, they have to be ubuntu related somehow21:45
nigelbmaco: hrm, there is already a fedro ambassador posting to planet21:46
AlanBellan author feed from a member on a corporate blog isn't quite the same thing needing special approval21:46
macoAlanBell: if it was that, itd be ubuntu team blogs... like having a blog for the Ubuntu Accessibility Team or like how there is one for the Kubuntu blog21:46
pleia2AlanBell: yeah, I think we went a bit off-topic with this tangent21:46
macohighvoltage: i guess it depends what chasm you're trying to cross. i cant think of any chasms that involve businesses i'm intersted in21:47
nigelbhumphreybc: will all your posts be tagged Ubuntu?21:47
humphreybcnigelb: ?21:47
nigelbOr only the personal level, contribution-related ones?21:47
nigelbhumphreybc: tagged for the planet I mean21:47
humphreybcI think the plan that all of my posts would go to the planet21:47
highvoltagemaco: I can't believe that there's any chasm that we want to cross that depends so vitally on companies blogging!21:47
vishhumphreybc: why is it you dont want to blog in your personal blog.. is copy pasting too tough?  this just seems like trying to promote OMG!21:48
macohighvoltage: right well.. i generally figure blogging is for humans. what companies do is called a press release21:48
AlanBellnigelb: they are all about ubuntu21:48
humphreybcnigelb: but it's not a big deal to only grab certain tags21:48
humphreybcAlanBell: yeah, well it is an ubuntu blog :P21:48
pleia2highvoltage: I meant companies investing in, supporting and selling hardware with ubuntu are vital, including them in the community via the planet is us showing support21:48
humphreybcvish: my current personal blog just exists for posting stuff on the planet21:48
pleia2not that blogging is vital, of course it's not :)21:48
highvoltagemaco: I think companies can blog just as much as humans can. they can have status updates, news on birthday parties, who got married, etc21:48
humphreybcseems dumb for me to have to post stuff twice just for a planet21:48
vishhumphreybc: it did exist even before right?21:48
popeyhumphreybc: you seem to want it both ways, it _is_ an ubuntu blog, and it _isn't_ an ubuntu blog21:49
vishhumphreybc: you cant OMG , sync from your feed?21:49
humphreybcvish: sure, but I didn't use it for much other than ubuntu21:49
nigelbhumphreybc: I know, but I was wondering if all your posts would be coming or the specific ones related to UMP, etc were coming to planet, like the ones you have to now copy paste21:49
highvoltagepleia2: that's better :)21:49
vishwhy cant OMG..21:49
popeyits an ubuntu blog enough that you can get on planet ubuntu, but its not ubuntu enough that people can get away with saying pretty disrespectful stuff21:49
humphreybcpopey: we're used to it21:49
humphreybcthis post21:50
vishwhy i feel this would be a bad choice is, OMG!Ubuntu! a bad breeding place for misguided folks..  and humphreybc being a member is not trying to fix that but rather encourage that misguidedness ..21:50
humphreybcdidn't post on my own blog, didn't hit planet ubuntu21:50
humphreybcI consider that sort of stuff quite Ubuntu community related?21:50
highvoltageI guess if it was up to me I'd let humphreybc add it and give him the benefit of the doubt. if he abuses it then it should just be removed.21:50
pleia2highvoltage: ditto21:50
AlanBellvish: so we need to provide guidance for misguided folks21:50
pleia2just like any other member blog21:50
humphreybcvish: "A bad breeding place for misguided folks" ?21:50
nigelbpleia2: +121:51
macoso like the trial period for corporate blogs?21:51
vishhumphreybc: yep.. you know it..21:51
humphreybcvish: I don't think so21:51
humphreybcIf you mean the mainstream, then sure21:51
pleia2maco: no, we've had to remove some personal blogs that were problematic in the past21:51
humphreybcAs Ubuntu grows you're going to have to learn to deal with more of these sort of people21:51
humphreybcnobody likes it21:51
pleia2members have guidelines too, they need to abide by the CoC to be on planet :)21:51
humphreybcbut OMG! Ubuntu! is popular21:51
AlanBellI think humphreybc could do some great articles about how the OMG audience could contribute in more constructive ways21:51
vishhumphreybc: what is Ubuntu?21:51
vishhumphreybc: who makes Ubuntu?21:52
pleia2AlanBell: yeah, that'd be great (or maybe WE can write them for omgubuntu, at least I have been invited to do a guest post)21:52
vishhumphreybc: do you know that this is a community project or not..21:52
macoAlanBell: more constructive than ogling nixie?21:52
pleia2it reaches a great new audience21:52
vishhumphreybc:  why do you say mention "Ubuntu Camp" and try to create segregation?21:52
humphreybcpleia2: AlanBell: you guys would be welcome to guest post as often as you'd like21:53
highvoltagevish: *breathe* :)21:53
humphreybcvish: wait, what?21:53
AlanBellvish: so we need to *remove* segregation and draw OMG and it's audience in to the community21:53
pleia2AlanBell: +121:53
humphreybcI think you're being more segregating by alienating the OMG! community21:53
macothey're a different community? when did that happen?21:53
vishhumphreybc: that was you recent comment on lp ..21:53
macohow do people even learn about these not-on-planet blogs?21:54
nigelbhey, it was your blog post that said "ubuntu camp"21:54
humphreybcI think it's in everyone's best interest (and numerous skype calls with the Bacon has confirmed this) that OMG! and the community strengthen ties rather than stretch them even thinner21:54
vishhumphreybc: you are actively mentioning "Camps" why not try to bring more people in?21:54
AlanBellvish: today I have been doing a load of work to get the Ubuntu Manual actually packaged and in the repos, to draw it in to the rest of Ubuntu as it has been seen as a distinct project21:54
humphreybcvish: huh?21:54
pleia2humphreybc: I agree, I really hope we can make that happen21:54
highvoltagemaco: dig, reddit, google, google reader shared items, links posted on irc and much more21:54
macoAlanBell: why not integrated into the Docs project?21:54
AlanBellmaco: one step at a time21:55
macowe shouldnt have manual AND docs21:55
humphreybcmaco: http://www.facebook.com/omgubuntu21:55
popeymaco: we are where we are21:55
pleia2maco: there have been numerous discussions about that, they are ongoing :)21:55
macooh puke, there's a facebook page?21:55
highvoltagemaco: oh yes and facebook, twitter, identica, etc :)21:55
humphreybcmaco: with 8000 fans, no less21:55
pleia2documentation pools, format discussions, etc etc21:55
macoeww twitter :P proprietary! EVIL!21:55
doctormoguys talk too quick! can't read backlog with empathy.21:55
* pleia2 hugs doctormo 21:55
macodoctormo: get a real irc client?21:55
humphreybcdoctormo: empathy! eww!21:55
humphreybcI would highly advise to keep the docs vs manual argument out of this :P21:56
vishhumphreybc: you "camp" reference on lp > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/615300/comments/1421:56
ubot2Ubuntu bug 615300 in evolution (Ubuntu) "Enable default Evolution signature as "Sent from Ubuntu" (affects: 16) (heat: 138)" [Medium,Fix released]21:56
pleia2maco: I don't think calling facebook and twitter evil is helping, this is why omgubuntu is so popular and hits a super wide audience and some of us are still struggling to get past local lugs21:56
macough lets just forget THAT bug report ever happened21:56
popeyvish: camp is a perfectly valid word to use about a group of like minded people21:56
pleia2they actually hit and take advantage of mainstream tools and get an audience beyond what the ubuntu community itself tends to21:56
humphreybcvish: I think it's more a figure out speech21:57
popeyhumphreybc: +121:57
vishpopey:  this is the same that humphreybc  maintains on OMG too.. , why separating.. ?21:57
macopleia2: ubuntu has a fb page. isnt that enough?21:57
humphreybcfigure out speech? figure OF speech21:57
highvoltagemaco: why? it was a very notable bug21:57
* humphreybc isn't used to being up before 9am21:57
pleia2maco: not if people like you speak of it with such distain and look down upon people who use it21:57
macohighvoltage: because it's a black mark on all of ubuntu21:57
vishpopey: since when where there two camps within? wasnt aware of it..21:57
* nigelb calls timeout21:58
jonohumphreybc, popularity is not everything21:58
highvoltagemaco: I accept ubuntu with all its problems, I don't think it's necessary to hide them. we should instead remember and not repeat.21:58
macopleia2: didnt say anything about people who use ubuntu. just see no use in splitting and having TWO fb pages21:58
humphreybcjono: I didn't say it was?21:58
highvoltage(sheesh I sound way too preachy there, sorry)21:58
jonoand popularity doesn't always mean good21:58
doctormoI can't read all of the backlog (stupid technical gtk reason) but OMG is a brand of an online magazine with it's own community. What's the problem?21:58
pleia2maco: there are loads of fb pages for loco teams and other ubuntu teams21:59
macodoctormo: humphreybc wants it on planet21:59
humphreybcdoctormo: Alan suggested that my author feed could be aggregated to the planet if I wanted it to21:59
jonohumphreybc, it is just that you have pointed out OMG!Ubuntu's popularity a few times here and a few times yesterday when we talked21:59
macodoctormo: well wants his author feed on planet21:59
AlanBelldoctormo: the discussion is subscribing /author/humphreybc to the planet21:59
jonopopularity can lead to ego and ego leads to assholes21:59
humphreybcmaco: well hang on a second, I didn't say "I want my blog on the planet"21:59
jonojust something to keep in check21:59
popeyI can't help but feel the motivation for humphreybc putting his 'feed' from omg on planet ubuntu rather than his own blog serves only one purpose, drive more traffic to omg21:59
highvoltagemaco: he wants only his blog from that site on the planet, not the entire site21:59
popeygiven his posts already get aggregated from his blog21:59
humphreybcpopey: wait wait wait21:59
humphreybcI never asked for this21:59
czajkowskipopey: my feeling also21:59
macohighvoltage: i said "author feed"21:59
humphreybcstop jumping the gun21:59
popeyhumphreybc: ok :)21:59
AlanBellit was indeed my suggestion21:59
czajkowskiwhich is why i'm rather against it21:59
doctormomaco: I can't see why they can't have a very specific tag which means "This is an OMG scoop and relivent to the Ubuntu community"22:00
macopopey: exactly22:00
popeyhumphreybc: you're kinda asking for it now22:00
czajkowskidoctormo: as they'll tag every single post22:00
popeywhether AlanBell originally suggested it or not22:00
humphreybcAlan suggested it to me, I slept on it. I figured it would be easier for me to just have one blog on the planet than the two22:00
humphreybcpopey: I don't mind22:00
popeyyou're here in the community channel that you never ever come to22:00
humphreybcIt's not the end of the world22:00
vishthats why i'v been saying this seems just like a promotional issue22:00
doctormoczajkowski: Then we'll deal with that abuse like we do with any other.22:00
humphreybcpopey: Alan asked me to come in22:00
humphreybc(to discuss it)22:00
AlanBellpopey: because I suggested discussing it here22:00
AlanBelland not just going ahead and doing it because that would be a bad way to do this22:01
humphreybcHate to sound like a dick, but just pointing out facts: I don't think OMG! needs to be aggregated on planet ubuntu to get more page views.22:01
doctormohumphreybc: What's the opportunities of getting the Ubuntu Weekly News onto OMG?22:01
jonoand there is another popularity reference ;-)22:01
highvoltagehumphreybc: afaik, you don't even need to ask for permission to add your blog if you're a member. if you are a member and abide by the CoC, just add it, if someone objects they can take it up with the CC. simple as that.22:01
humphreybcjono: It's a fact22:01
humphreybcI'm not doing this for page views22:01
humphreybcthat's just stupid22:01
doctormohumphreybc: "known self motivation" not fact ;-)22:02
jonohumphreybc, I am not suggestion you are, but I am suggesting that popularity is not always equal to quality22:02
AlanBellhighvoltage: yeah, but I suggested not blundering in and doing it and having a row afterwards22:02
humphreybchighvoltage: Well I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers before doing something *so* controversial ;)22:02
highvoltagewhat's so controversial about adding a blog to planet? it happens all the time.22:02
highvoltagepeople can just deal with it.22:02
jonopersonally, I couldn't care less what you aggregate on Planet Ubuntu, but I don't think this is about aggregation22:02
jonoit is about the style of commentary on OMG22:02
popeydo we have a style on planet ubuntu?22:03
popeycan i please vote off death metal? :)22:03
jonopopey, Ubuntu + Metal22:03
jonoonly those categories22:03
Pendulumpopey: CoC friendly?22:03
highvoltagejono: if he steps out of line, his feed can be easily removed22:03
humphreybcExcuse me, but, I didn't realise having "style" was against the CoC.22:03
jcastroyeah, you wanna see controversy, post about metal22:03
vishPendulum: +122:03
jonohumphreybc, it isnt22:03
pleia2or post about women in foss, I've had some very special comments on the subject22:03
jononone of this is about the CoC22:03
Pendulumhumphreybc: I was saying the style is CoC friendly. Not anything else.22:03
macopleia2: you dont delete them?22:04
jonothe CoC is about good conduct22:04
AlanBelljono: it is about drawing OMG and it's community in, rather than having the impression that is is outside of the community22:04
jonohumphreybc, is never disrespectful22:04
highvoltagehumphreybc: if style means being offensive, cocky and rude- then yes22:04
pleia2maco: nope22:04
jonoAlanBell, totally agree22:04
Pendulumin other words, anything on Planet Ubuntu needs to be CoC friendly22:04
popeyAlanBell: might be helpful if humphreybc didn't perpetuate the idea that OMG _is_ outside the ubuntu community22:04
macoi have a half dozen comments sitting in my moderation queue so that ive got them for later reference but they dont show up where anyone but me has to be subjected to them22:04
AlanBellpopey: that is the bug I am trying to fix22:04
popeyhumphreybc: has said to me previously that he/they don't owe ubuntu anything22:04
jonohumphreybc, do you consider OMG to be part of the community?22:04
popeywhcih seems somewhat broken22:04
humphreybcpopey: well it's hardly a core part22:04
vishpopey: haha! see, that what I'v been trying to say!22:04
humphreybcpopey: ?22:04
jonohumphreybc, ^^22:05
popeya broken attitude to take22:05
humphreybcwhere did you get that from? don't owe? what?22:05
doctormopopey: It's an amorphous thing the community, as porous as it is uneasy22:05
humphreybccore as in - it's not accepted22:05
jonohumphreybc, do you consider OMG to be part of the community?22:05
highvoltageisn't adding a feed to planet ubuntu *making* it more part of the community?22:05
popeyhumphreybc: you specifically said that to me22:05
humphreybcpopey: when?22:05
popeyyou want logs?22:05
jonohumphreybc, let me be more specific, do you operate OMG under the premise that you feel it is part of the community?22:05
humphreybcjono: I don't know. It's not up to us to decide if we're part of the community or not.22:06
doctormohumphreybc: Do you and do0d operate OMG with the view of serving the community?22:06
humphreybcIt's up to the community.22:06
jonohumphreybc, well, it is22:06
humphreybcI think we're serving Ubuntu22:06
humphreybcWe're helping, in some way.22:06
doctormohumphreybc: You're programmers?22:06
jonoit is up to you if you participate under the auspices of the community22:06
popeylots of people get their 'news' from omg22:06
humphreybcdoctormo: ahh.22:06
popeyyup czajkowski I'd agree with humphreybc there22:06
jonohumphreybc, so do you consider that you serve the community?22:06
macopopey: thank you for using quotes :)22:06
humphreybcSo we have to be programmers to help, do we?22:06
popeymaco: meant in a tabloid way22:06
jonohumphreybc, I never said that22:06
humphreybcOkay, well in that case, I should bugger off, I'm not a programmer.22:06
macopopey: i know :)22:06
popeythere are a significant number of people who like what omg do22:06
jonoI am asking if you feel you serve a function in the community22:07
macopopey: hence the thanks!22:07
popeyand appreciate the content / insight / style22:07
popeyomg is good to have around22:07
humphreybcjono: Yes, of course22:07
jonohumphreybc, cool, then you are part of the community22:07
doctormohumphreybc: I didn't say what i meant in the right way.22:07
humphreybcOMG! serves a purpose like all other people and teams in the community22:07
jonoand we should welcome OMG into the fold more and more22:07
jonoit serves a valuable function22:07
AlanBellwe need to inspire OMG to be better than it has been. We don't do that by pushing it away.22:07
pleia2jono: +122:07
jonohowever, there are cultural and conduct standards that we enforce22:08
nigelbAlanBell: agreed22:08
jonoI am not suggest OMG has breached them, but if you want to be part of the community I think it would be useful for you to enforce them22:08
humphreybcjono: you can't say we aren't trying22:08
Pendulumjono: +122:08
jonohumphreybc, I never said that22:08
macohumphreybc: may i request that you or someone at OMG learn to package and package up the 3rd party apps you guys recommend and put them through REVU or through Debian Mentors so they get properly reviewed rather than always recommending third party stuff? it makes me wince when i see people told to get out-of-repo software22:08
popeyi asked joey why you guys didnt use the ubuntu code of conduct22:08
jonohumphreybc, doesn't imagine things I am saying, read what I am saying22:08
popeyjoey said that he didnt think you were allowed22:08
humphreybcmaco: we're too busy22:08
popeywhich shows me a bit of a disconnect22:09
AlanBellmaco: that would be an awesome thing for the OMG contributors to get going with22:09
macohumphreybc: you're promoting bad security practices!22:09
jonohumphreybc, I want you to be part of our community, and I dislike the resentment I hear to OMG22:09
humphreybcmaco: It's not our fault, that's how Ubuntu is.22:09
jonoI think you provide a fantastic news service22:09
jonobut as I told you last night, I would prefer if you took the BBC approach and not the Fox News approach22:09
humphreybcwhen Ubuntu gets bigger, are you going to go and blame Ars Technica for "promoting bad security practices"? Shouldn't you fix them at this end?22:09
pleia2maco: I don't think we need to compell journalists to become techies, we all have our strengths and weaknesses22:09
jonoI can't stop you from doing anything, but it is friendly advice - everyone here would love OMG if the news was not filled with opinion22:10
doctormoI'd say they were more like the Inquirer and less like the register.22:10
macohumphreybc: ars isnt trying to get their "go use 3rd party stuff" posts on planet22:10
pleia2I'm hoping that advertising on omgubuntu will inspire a packager to package something, thats how it works :)22:10
jonomaco, there is nothing wrong with OMG highlighting 3rd party stuff, we are not a walled garden22:10
doctormohumphreybc: Yes we will blame Ars if they promote bad security policies.22:10
macofine, *at least* file a WNPP bug in debian then22:10
czajkowskijono: be nice if some of the stuff was factual rather then what it seems to be is sometimes personal attacks on ubuntu22:10
AlanBellmaco: there are stacks of posts from people on planet about interesting stuff that comes in a tar.gz22:10
* maco giggles at "journalist"22:10
jonomy only grievance with OMG is that humphreybc uses it as a pulpit sometimes22:10
jonoand I think its a bit cheap22:10
humphreybcI wouldn't add my feed to the planet if that gave everyone an excuse to lambast anything on OMG!. For example, if my feed was on the planet, and nixie posted something (that didn't appear on the planet) that created controversy, my feed being on the planet shouldn't create some sort of rally cry of "shut OMG! downn!!!"22:11
* vish smiles with maco 22:11
jonohumphreybc, you should have OMG on planet22:11
AlanBellhumphreybc: agreed22:11
humphreybcjono: what, the entire thing?22:11
jonoif you are part of our community you are welcome to22:11
czajkowskijono: +1 indeed how many people feel to be honest22:11
humphreybcAll 10 posts a day?22:11
nigelbhumphreybc: ohgodno22:11
jonohumphreybc, I would have o objection to that personally22:11
maco10 posts O_O criminey youd flood the thing22:11
humphreybcYes, I wouldn't want that.22:12
nigelbyou'd flood the planet22:12
AlanBellthat would have to go through the corporate blog approval process22:12
macothere's only ~20 posts/day to start with22:12
humphreybcFlooding the planet isn't what we want to do22:12
jonoyou can't choose to be part of the community and get exposure and then choose to not be part of the community when people slam you for being inappropriate22:12
doctormoThe Ubuntu Weekly News doesn't post every item seperately.22:12
jonothe community is a culture, not a part time job22:12
humphreybcdoctormo: that's because it's a weekly newsletter22:12
popeyi would like to see all of the OMG posts on the planet22:12
AlanBellor joey/nixie/others would have to become members (which would be good)22:12
nigelbdoctormo: feel free to give us feedback about the newsletter22:12
humphreybcAlanBell: not under the corporate rules22:12
humphreybcbut I'd love to see them become members22:12
jonohumphreybc, my recommendation to you is to scrap the opinion and rants from OMG and then you will purely be an awesome news site22:12
nigelbdoctormo: highvoltage, Pendulum, amber, and I are among the few people you could talk about uwn22:12
jonoany +1s on that/22:12
humphreybcjono: yes, don't worry, we're doing that22:13
jonoany +1s on that?22:13
AlanBellhumphreybc: indeed, either/or22:13
pleia2jono: +122:13
popey       _22:13
popey   _  / |22:13
popey _| |_| |22:13
popey|_   _| |22:13
popey  |_| |_|22:13
popey         22:13
humphreybcpopey: lol22:13
popeyBehold our massive consensus!22:13
jonohumphreybc, have a blog for opinions, keep them there, have OMG for quality news22:13
humphreybcIf we put the OMG! feed on the planet, I'm going to go and hide for a week22:13
humphreybcin a cave22:13
jcastropopey: clearly we need a council22:13
humphreybcin the afghan mountains22:14
jonohumphreybc, so are you happy to do that? to keep the opinion out of the site22:14
doctormohumphreybc: Take your plane, it's a long ride to the nearest cave.22:14
humphreybcjono: of course22:14
popeyFormulate the OMG!Council! STAT!22:14
pleia2popey: lol22:14
jonothen we behold a new era of the OMG!22:14
* jono hugs humphreybc22:14
* humphreybc is smiliung22:14
humphreybcsmiling, even22:14
jonoand I would encourage everyone here to give humphreybc a chance22:14
humphreybcI guess peace does work?22:14
popeyhumphreybc: are you stroking a small white cat too?22:14
humphreybcpopey: hahaha22:14
jonolet's not pre-judge, let's support their work, it is a great news site22:14
* pleia2 hugs humphreybc 22:14
vishhumphreybc: dont get this the wrong way, i *am* subscribed to OMG feeds ,n i do like how tedious d0od is at it..   but there is a running attitude on the blogs that OMG is a separate entity from Ubuntu which is what i'm not happy with.. :)22:14
jcastro(I was joking about the council before anyone gets any bright ideas)22:15
humphreybcjcastro: nice22:15
doctormoI do have a cat on my lap22:15
nigelbjcastro: somone did I think22:15
jonook, I am going to go back to creating work for jcastro and czajkowski22:15
jonothanks humphreybc, keep up the awesome work22:15
jcastroKEEP ARGUING22:15
humphreybcI think having OMG! aggregated to the planet will encourage our writers (mainly myself) to watch the tone22:15
nigelbjcastro: HAHA22:15
jonohumphreybc, lets talk about aggregation when you have had a few months of no opinions/rant22:15
humphreybcand I'll tell nixie off too :)22:15
jcastrohumphreybc:  my only beef is linking to things22:15
Pendulumjcastro: bored?22:15
pleia2doctormo: I have one on my desk, she has laid claim to my mouse (I think she's trying to hatch it)22:16
jonohumphreybc, sound good?22:16
czajkowskijono: cool, should keep me out of trouble22:16
humphreybcjono: sure22:16
jonohumphreybc, :-)22:16
humphreybcjcastro: linking to things22:16
jcastrosometimes joey posts "omg, this and that and foo bar" but doesn't link to the mailing list announcement or whatever22:16
jonoczajkowski, nothing keeps you out trouble, chuck :-)22:16
humphreybcoh right22:16
humphreybcjcastro: a lot of them come through our tips bnox22:16
humphreybcand the original tipper doesn't link, so it's hard for us to track it down22:16
humphreybcgenerally, we give source22:16
Pendulumhumphreybc: it's a responsible journalism thing to track down, though22:16
humphreybcat the bottom22:16
humphreybcPendulum: yeah, I know. We try.22:17
czajkowskijono: sooooo true :)22:17
jcastroif you get tips like that I guarantee it's probably on -devel, -desktop, or -announce22:17
czajkowskijono: ended up at skynet meeting, i may be poking canonical folks to come over to give talks22:17
humphreybcYou guys know Joey actually has a journalism degree, right?22:17
humphreybc(and that Ohso is his full time job)22:17
doctormohumphreybc: so does jono22:17
humphreybcdoctormo: I know this22:18
nigelbpleia2: heh, I'll take the outcome if she manages to hatch it ;)22:18
jonoczajkowski, cool22:18
Pendulumhumphreybc: yes. that's another reason that it's better for him to check sources. because he knows better than to not do so22:18
jcastrojono: really? you have a journalism degree?22:18
doctormowhoever isn't a journalist by necessity, leave the irc room ;-)22:18
humphreybcjcastro: lol22:18
pleia2doctormo: hehe22:18
jonojcastro, not a degree, but I was a journalist for three years22:18
jcastroyeah my only issue is like, when we announce things on -desktop (like the chromium thing) I spent alot of time making sure I addressed a ton of stuff people might ask. And then when they don't get links people just make stuff up22:19
jcastroand then next thing I know people are asking our browser team questions about hypothetical problems that don't exist22:19
humphreybcjcastro: totally22:19
jcastrowhen they should be hacking making ubuntu better22:19
doctormojono: Sorry I get confused between qualifications and experence all the time.22:19
jonodoctormo, no worries, pal!22:19
czajkowskithere is a massive difference in posts by jono and joey22:19
humphreybcjcastro: if you are announcing something you think we'll pick up, email it to us with the link, much easier22:19
humphreybcUbuntu is a pretty large area to cover22:19
jonoI would rather have experience over qualifications any day22:19
jonounfortunately, I am an idiot22:20
humphreybcand since we're opening up more blogs, we're basically stretched thin22:20
pleia2yeah, I've had great luck with submitting stuff to omg, they make it easy and pick up a lot22:20
jonohumphreybc, I promise you will get more exclusives from us when you get rid of the ranty nature of OMG22:20
jcastroanyway that was my only beef22:20
humphreybcczajkowski: Joey's aren't about a metal band? :P22:20
Pendulumhumphreybc: why stretch thin rather than concentrate on doing your best on a more consolidated basis? (I'm honestly curious)22:20
humphreybcPendulum: we're also bringing on more authors22:21
humphreybcbut we're trying to expand22:21
humphreybc(you may have noticed ubuntugamer.com sitting around for ages)22:21
jonohumphreybc, my advice: continue to grow your community, fact check everything, stick to the news and keep opinion out - and never, ever post rants just because you can22:22
AlanBellok, so to recap humphreybc will concentrate on making his OMG posts of a high non-ranty standard such that they can be aggregated to the planet in the not too distant future22:22
jonodo that and you will have the New York Times22:22
jonoas opposed to the National Enquirer22:22
humphreybcAlanBell: yep22:22
humphreybcjono: are posts like this okay? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/how-scalable-is-open-source/22:22
Pendulumhumphreybc: I understand that. I guess my style is just more to make sure I have the best I can of one thing I'm doing before expanding. And since even you seem to be aware that OMG isn't as good as it could be...22:22
humphreybc(admittedly asks more questions than it answers!)22:22
humphreybcPendulum: OMG! has been around for about a year, it has a niche22:23
humphreybcthe niche has worked pretty well22:23
AlanBellhumphreybc: that was one of the best posts ever in my opinion!22:23
jonohumphreybc, yep22:23
humphreybcbut yeah, Joey does tell me off when I do ranty things22:23
jonohumphreybc, I would leave that off22:23
jonoor...make it clear that this is an OPINION PIECE22:24
humphreybchumphreybc: well, we have the editorial thing on the left22:24
jonohumphreybc, let me give you an example:22:24
humphreybcthat's what the categories are for22:24
AlanBellanything that has Alan Bell in the first sentence is full of win22:24
humphreybcjono: it was designed to provoke discussion in the comments22:24
jonothe problem with Fox News is that they constantly blur the line between opinion and news and they do this because if anyone picks them up on content they can say "it was an opinion segment" - it is a lame excuse22:24
humphreybc(sadly, most comments are "FIREFOX IS TEH NOT MEDIIUM SIZEEED"22:25
jonocompare with the BBC - they very clearly outline which shows are opinion shows22:25
jonotherefore if something is not labeled opinion, the viewer can safely assume it is frank and honest news22:25
jonoright now you are taking the fox news approach, it is blurry22:25
jonoalso, writing stories for the pure goal of getting comments is an ego trip22:25
jonodon't do it22:25
humphreybcjono: kay22:26
nigelbAlanBell: hahah22:26
jonodon't go down that road, it's a slippery slope22:26
humphreybcJoey posts like, 50 posts a week, I post maybe one rant a month22:26
humphreybcshould say22:26
humphreybcI posted one rant a month ;)22:26
jonohumphreybc, doesn't matter22:26
jonoJoey posts new22:26
jonowhich is awesome, no matter how small and insignificant22:26
jonothe rants undermine the quality of the site22:26
jonoI never want to stop you ranting, but do it on your personal blog22:27
humphreybcthe only thing I would be a bit concerned about when aggregating the blog, is that we don't want to steamroll the newsletter.22:27
jonoit is your opinion, your ideas, and really has no place on OMG22:27
humphreybcI think we need to work with the community news team22:27
jcastroplus rants are like movie remakes, you're not the first person to hate your computer.22:27
AlanBellhumphreybc: where is joey's wiki.ubuntu.com page?22:27
* humphreybc has talked a bit with akgraner about this22:27
vishhumphreybc: that would be awesome!22:27
jonowhen you make this segregation of content clear, you build faith in your readership22:27
humphreybcAlanBell: he doesn't have one22:27
jonothey will trust your news and they will mentally frame the opinion where appropriate22:27
pleia2humphreybc: I am sure they'd appreciate the help :) especially with writing summaries and things, you're welcome over in #ubuntu-news22:27
jonoand our concensus, albeit small earlier, was testament to that22:28
pleia2ah good, you've talked to akgraner22:28
humphreybcpleia2: yeah, we'll try to hang out there. Joey and I usually avoid IRC (lots of people trying to ping us all the time)22:28
pleia2yeah, fair enough :)22:28
jonohumphreybc, then again I have told you all this three or four times before22:28
* humphreybc will be in #ubuntu-manual over summer though22:28
jonoI hope it sticks this time22:28
humphreybcjono: yes dad22:28
humphreybcor should I say22:28
humphreybcyes mum ;)22:28
jonohumphreybc, go and brush your teeth22:29
doctormohumphreybc: Wait I can make a picture! ;-) (ok I won't)22:29
* popey digs out his special photo of jono again22:29
popeybeen a few months22:29
humphreybcjono: I saw all those baby pics of you that your Mum posted22:29
vishuh oh!22:29
jonook, I have, y'know, actual work to do, back in a bit22:29
vishno we need pics!22:29
* jono fires up UT322:29
jcastroI am 30 minutes past, EOD, so I am actually firing up a video game22:30
jcastrotty all tomorrow!22:30
AlanBello/ jcastro22:30
jcastrough too late22:30
jcastroI fired off this horrible Clash of the Titans movie22:30
jcastronow I am stuck watching it since I loved the original22:31
jonojcastro, ahhh one sec22:31
jonocan I keep you for 30sec22:31
popeyi do belive it could be half life 2 o'clock22:33
jcastrotell me doctor freeman22:33
jcastrowhat is it you've created?22:33
jcastroyou destroy so much ....22:33
jonojcastro, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityReview/Sep2010/Beginner22:34
jonojcastro, this is the template for the report I will ask every tea to focus on22:34
jonolet me know if it needs anything22:35
jcastrocan I test this on actual people?22:35
jonoI will then cut and paste it to the other reports22:35
jonojcastro, what do you mean?22:35
jcastroor do you want me to try to just be in that mental state of mind?22:35
jonosee point 4 in the plan22:35
jonopart of it is research22:35
jcastrothat will teach me to read first22:36
jonoif this looks broadly ok I am going to get the other pages set up and blog it22:36
jcastrocan I have a day to digest?22:36
jonoI want it out today22:36
jcastrohah, k22:36
jonoif there are no major flaws I will continue22:36
jcastrosomething I would like to know22:37
jonojcastro, to be clear I don't want you to do the work now, just let me know if it that template and process looks ok22:37
jcastroright right22:37
jcastroI get that22:37
highvoltagewhoah you guys talked a lot while I drove home!22:38
jonohighvoltage, :-)22:38
jcastrosomething I think should be noted when we ask the people22:38
jcastrois what results they found when they did search for something22:38
jcastrolike, what they're searching for, etc.22:38
jcastrothis will tell us what pages/docs are out of date22:39
jonojcastro, I agree, that is something I want you to do in the Beginner assessment22:39
jcastroas a part of this question: Where did you look first for information on getting involved?22:39
jonook, so it sounds we are mostly good22:39
jcastro(reviewer, write down what the person looked for) or whatever22:39
jcastrobut yeah, that's a nitpick22:39
jonook thanks, pal22:40
jcastrojono: you're missing some governance22:41
* jcastro runs away as fast as he can22:41
jonojcastro, governance?22:41
jonoI am going to kill you22:41
jonowith a very blunt stick22:41
highvoltagethat would be against the CoC I'm sure!22:42
* AlanBell reads CoC22:42
AlanBellnope, you're good, carry on22:43
highvoltageah, as you were then22:43
AlanBellnight all o/22:43
pleia2it's ok as long as it's a respectful murder22:43
jonopleia2, lol22:43
highvoltageyou respect him for his musical tastes!? my word that is blunt.22:45
jonohighvoltage, lol22:50
doctormoRespect my eyeballs!23:04
=== kim0 is now known as kim0_away
* czajkowski cranks up the Frames and starts to tackle email 23:12
popeyhehe, you think we have odd application names...23:24
* popey notes that word has an entirely different meaning in the uk23:24
* Pendulum giggles23:25
highvoltagebugger in uk = snot right?23:27
highvoltageoh wait no that's US I think23:28
Pendulumhighvoltage: in the US it's booger23:28
Pendulumbugger means something completely different in the UK23:28
highvoltageit's almost like 'bastard' right?23:28
popeynot really23:31
* popey buys highvoltage a dictionary :)23:31
popeyand not that stupid websters one :)23:31
popeyooo which reminds me of a thing i keep hearing..23:32
Pendulumpopey: buy him a slang dictionary. it'll be more use in this case ;)23:32
highvoltagepopey: I looked it up on the urban dictionary23:32
* highvoltage never knew it had that meaning23:33
popeywhy is it that in the US people say 'ten ecks' for "10x", rather than (as we do) say "ten times" when 10x is really short hand for 10 times the size/power/weight of something else?23:33
highvoltagepopey: oh that's an easy one23:34
highvoltagepopey: but it would be mean to tell you23:34
maco<jono> jcastro, not a degree, but I was a journalist for three years  <-- there was space for a zing in there23:37
highvoltagemaco: how so?23:37
popeywhats a zing?23:37
highvoltagepopey: I think it's short for bazinga23:38
macoer bazinga is newer than zinger23:38
macoand i dont watch tv23:38
macobefore that show came on, people said "ZING!" when they got a good one in23:38
highvoltageI know some people who are born in the 70's who say that a lot23:39
czajkowskiBazinga! BBT is back this week :D :D23:39
macoannnnyyyyywayyyy....  im reading scrollback and before jono said that but after doctormo said he had a degree in journo, i figure someone shouldve said "jono has a degree?"23:39
highvoltageczajkowski: \o/23:39
highvoltageczajkowski: and House and HIMYM!23:39
macono Doctor Who til xmas special :(23:40
popeyStill none the wiser23:40
highvoltagemaco: how I met your mother. you can at least watch some TV!23:40
macohighvoltage: i dont own one23:40
macothough i should borrow some wifi somewhere and watch Warehouse 13 on Hulu23:40
highvoltagemaco: you don't have friends!?23:40
macothough its probably not on there anymore... so i guess i should get the DVDs23:40
macooff the internet?23:40
highvoltagemy flatmate watches lots of Warehouse 1323:41
doctormomaco: I'm not so sure he does now23:41
highvoltageI'm not really too into it23:41
macodoctormo: he got a visa, he must have one...23:41
doctormomaco: He probably got a K1 (like me) or K3.23:44
macodoctormo: like you = marriage visa? i think he was here quite a while pre-marriage23:44
doctormoIntent to marry or I'm already married didn't you know.23:44
doctormoThen it'd be business visa of some sort I'd bet.23:44

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