=== amitk is now known as amitk-afk
cjwatsonpitti: one of your changes to media-player-info looks wrong00:38
cjwatson+ATTRS{idVendor}=="22b8" , ATTRS{idProduct}=="41d9|41db" , ENV{ID_MEDIA_PLAYER}="motorola-droid" ENV{UDISKS_PRESENTATION_ICON_NAME}="phone-motorola-droid"00:38
cjwatsonpitti: missing comma-separation there?00:38
cjwatsonpitti: actually, uh, there seems to be lots of this.  Is the udev documentation wrong about what it accepts?00:39
smosercjwatson, that rocks. thanks. i have never seen that syntax for case01:30
psusiev, just subscribed you to bug #644011 since I believe it was caused by your upload the other day01:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 644011 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer hangs if installation of grub fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64401101:55
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
YokoZarI can't figure out which package this bug should be against: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/63282704:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 632827 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] X Screensaver not disabled, shows every 15 minutes regardless of Gnome screensaver settings (even in Totem)" [Low,New]04:10
micahgYokoZar: could xscreensaver be installed or is that too far-fetched04:16
YokoZarmicahg: if it is it was pulled in by default somehow04:17
YokoZarmicahg: and it's not installed04:17
micahgah, your bug :)04:17
smoserif I upload bug 644074 (ec2-api-tools package in multiverse) does it stand a chance at getting approved ?04:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 644074 in ec2-api-tools (Ubuntu) "upgrade ec2-api-tools to 1.3-57419 (api version 2010-08-31)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64407404:38
persialifeless, SpamapS : You might want to catch mjj re: Java library versioning; I believe there's a plan to have a soname-like facility in Debian in the future.04:45
lifelesspersia: \o/04:50
persiaMight be a while, like Wheezy+1 or so, but if there's interest in doing that, probably better to work with folks already looking at it for a few months, rather than a parallel solution.04:51
=== amitk-afk is now known as amitk
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
Mixmaxcjwatson: Good morning! Do you wish to be apart of the massive growth of Open Source software and ill have to ask you to keep an open mind.07:40
HobbseeMixmax: if you wish to troll, please go elsewhere07:42
Hobbseewhere elsewhere does not include any other ubuntu channels, incidently07:43
lifelessHobbsee: welcome back to peak condition07:50
Hobbseelifeless: cheers07:51
lifelessHobbsee: did you get your good news?07:51
lifelesswhatever it was?07:51
Hobbseei don't remember which particular bit it was :)07:52
Hobbseeparts of it, anyway :)07:53
Mixmax... /msg ananke Hows your frying going cock smoker ?07:59
micahgHobbsee: ^^07:59
MixmaxHobbit.. act and be one07:59
ubottuhey Christel, Dave2, Gary, KB1JWQ, Levia, Martinp23, Pricey, SportsChick, VorTechS, jayne, jenda, marienz, nalioth, niko, nhandler, rob, stew or tomaw, I could use a bit of your time :)07:59
micahgHobbsee: you're no longer IRC admin?08:00
Hobbseemicahg: i was never a staffer08:00
micahgHobbsee: oh, my mistake :)08:00
Hobbseemicahg: no problem08:00
Mixmaxmicahg: If you had liked linux or open source at all yould have booted ananke.08:01
Mixmaxmicahg: And not let them turn it into The dreaded Dalnet!08:02
micahgHobbsee: thanks08:02
vishodd, did i miss something?  why was he/she picking on cj-watson  though?08:03
micahgvish: trolling...08:03
Hobbseegoodness only knows08:03
wgrantThere was a great battle last week.08:03
Hobbseei'll never understand why people think they're going to get what they want by telling people to go and die, or other similar things08:10
=== ldunn_ is now known as ldunn
slomohi, can someone sync this from debian/experimental? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem-plugin-arte/+bug/63976008:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 639760 in totem-plugin-arte (Ubuntu) "Sync totem-plugin-arte 0.9.1-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]08:45
pitticjwatson: no, that looks wrong; I'll check this, thanks!09:00
pittiGood morning09:00
=== spike_ is now known as spikeWRK
pitticjwatson: right, seems this already happened in previous versions as well; I didn't change the generator script in 909:08
pittilooks like all the rules with an icon name miss it09:09
cjwatsonslomo: totem-plugin-arte is blocked on the rollout of a Launchpad fix.  I'll sync it after that09:52
cjwatsonslomo: (bug 635591)09:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 635591 in Soyuz "Regression: syncing packages with UTF-8 changelogs fails" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63559109:56
cjwatsonah, here, that's Fix Released now09:56
* cjwatson will look09:56
wgrantWatch out -- it may not be on cocoplum yet.10:02
wgrantBut worth a try.10:02
cjwatsonslomo: I think I misremembered what this was blocked on, so at any rate done10:03
cjwatsonwgrant: it is, I checked bzr log there first :)10:04
wgrantcjwatson: Ah, good.10:04
=== mr5v3n is now known as ChanZ
apparlehi guys I want to access the touchpad. how to do it?10:23
slomocjohnston: thanks10:37
slomocjwatson: ^---10:37
pitticjwatson: m-p-i fixed upstream (now with automatic syntax check), and uploaded version 1010:38
pitticjwatson: thanks a lot for spotting10:38
=== amitk is now known as amitk-afk
=== doko_ is now known as doko
dokoRiddell: kdesdk failed to build. could you address bug #641356 with the next upload too?11:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 641356 in kdesdk (Ubuntu Maverick) "kdesdk-scripts recommends components in universe" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64135611:06
Riddelldoko: mm, ok11:12
tkamppeterpitti, hi11:21
cjwatsontkamppeter: the changelog in your ghostscript upload doesn't match the control file11:23
cjwatson+  * debian/control: Updated versioned dependency of ghostscript on gsfonts,11:23
cjwatson+    we need at least gsfonts 1:8.11+urwcyr1.0.7~pre44-4.2 now due to the11:23
cjwatson+    dropping of defoma.11:23
cjwatsongsfonts (>= 1:8.11+urwcyr1.0.7~pre44-4.1)11:23
cjwatsontkamppeter: is the control file correct (in which case that's fine) or is the changelog correct (in which case please reupload with a fixed control file)/11:23
dokottx: are you involved with likewise-open? there are some patches/fixes pending (assigned to Gerald Carter). But for now I'd like to just do a no change upload to get it built on powerpc.11:28
dokozul: ^^^11:29
persiadoko, Are you sure that will work?  It didn't build for me on ppc yesterday, and I've been digging through the configuration hoping the Mac/PPC stuff would migrate to Linux/PPC.11:35
dokopersia: currently building on davis,now for about 30min11:35
persiadoko, Well, if it works, go ahead :)11:37
tkamppetercjwatson, the correct version number is 1:8.11+urwcyr1.0.7~pre44-4.1. I will re-upload.11:37
persiadoko, Just FYI, my build took 57 minutes to fail.11:41
apacheloggerKeybuk: I have a Qt upstart library to the dbus interface ^^11:43
apachelogger(well, almost)11:43
maxbDoes anyone know what's responsible for adding localhost6 to /etc/hosts on a maverick update?11:46
Keybukapachelogger: doesn't Qt make one from the xml automatically?11:47
apacheloggerKeybuk: yes, but the dynamic nesting requires some poking11:48
apacheloggerKeybuk: comes to about 700 sloc including a simple example app and build system and xml11:48
pitticjwatson, ev, all others I forgot: I recently installed a current Maverick snapshot, and I just wanted to say that the new installer simply looks and feels awesome. Kudos!11:59
=== amitk-afk is now known as amitk
evthanks pitti11:59
evthat balances nicely with Keybuk's "it ate my shiny new computer"12:00
Keybukno, the Lucid installer ate my shiny new computer12:00
Keybukthe Maverick installer mostly worked12:00
Keybukthough I did note that it complained that I didn't have a working Internet connection12:01
cjwatsonmy unproven suspicion is that grub_options is being initialised too early in lucid, before partitioning12:01
Keybukwhile bcmwl-kernel-source was sitting on the CD and it could have done something about that itself12:01
Keybukoh, and mvo - how the buggery bugger is apt-cd supposed to work?12:01
cjwatsonand that if it had actually shown the device it was supposed to show, we could have avoided going down a hideously wrong path involving grub-efi12:01
cjwatson(which in part was because Keybuk asked me for help during sofa time :P)12:02
evKeybuk: it does do something about it12:02
Keybukev: it didn't :p12:02
evKeybuk: if you click the "give me nonfree happiness" and hit next, it solves that problem for you12:02
KeybukI didn't have that button that I remember12:03
evcjwatson: I'm really confused as to how putting something in the MBR could so massively break GPT for OSX12:03
evgiven that it's just there for backwards compatibility12:03
cjwatsonit wasn't putting something in the MBR12:04
cjwatsonwe were playing with grub-efi because I forgot how macbooks are supposed to work12:04
cjwatsonand it looks like the EFI System Partition got trashed in some arcane way12:04
cjwatsonalso something odd with the partition table which I didn't really have a chance to debug because Keybuk wiped and reinstalled :)12:04
ttxdoko: likewise-open is now mostly maintained upstream and sponsored by the desktop team12:09
dokottx: ok, thanks12:09
ttxdoko: though I can help if need be, obviously12:09
dokottx: no, looks like it needs porting for powerpc. the autoconf/automake failure I did see in the build log just did hide that12:10
dokopersia: ^^^12:10
persiaYep.  There's some upstream config to make it work for OS X/ppc so I'm fairly sure that it can be ported easily.  I believe it to be just a matter of defining the architecture correctly, but haven't unwound the complex configuration yet.12:11
dokopersia: look at NCommander's arm patches as a guide ...12:14
persiaI don't think it's that bad, but yeah, I've looked at those.12:14
mvoKeybuk: apt-cdrom > that should just work, it talks to udev nowdays and looks for cdroms/dvds. what was/is the issue with it12:15
Keybukit seemed to find the CD ok12:15
Keybukbut when I tried apt-get install, it said file not found12:15
Keybuk(and the path it gave was certainly on the CD)12:16
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
mvoKeybuk: wehh, that is bad (obviously). did it output anything more, or just that? what do I have to do to reproduce, was that a fresh install?12:16
Keybukyeah just a fresh install, CD still in the drive12:18
Keybukwas installing bcmwl-kernel-source12:18
KeybukI'm pretty sure I can still reproduce it12:18
mvoKeybuk: it would be nice if you could give me the output of "apt-get install bcmwl-kernel-source -o debug::aptcdrom=true12:21
Keybuksure thing12:21
Keybukwill grab that for you in a bit12:21
mvoKeybuk: and -o Debug::Acquire::cdrom=true as well please12:21
popeyKeybuk: you have a mbp?12:22
Keybukpopey: aye12:24
ttxdoko: right, I'm pretty sure upstream answer was that "it's not supported"'12:24
ttxlet me dig a reference for that12:24
pitticjwatson: I just did some udev bug fixes, and prepared a new pacakge with an upstream merge; tested locally, works fine12:24
popeymaverick installer scared me so i pulled the plug because it started doing stuff to the disk before I had an opportunity to tell it where to put grub :S12:24
pitticjwatson: I'd like to upload http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/maverick/udev/ubuntu/revision/2619, do you consider it okay, too?12:24
Keybukpopey: it asks that in the partitioning phase12:26
* ogra notices that all his ubuntu problems vanished when he started to use that tegra2 based armel netbook from toshiba12:26
pitticjwatson: there are two important bug fixes, a new keymap, some documentation updates, a new automatic test, and a small new feature in scsi_id (exports a new property); I think the feature is harmless for us, but I'd still like to get a second pair on it12:26
popeyKeybuk: hmm it might do now, it didnt when I tried, so i did 10.04.1 -> 10.10 instead12:26
ttxdoko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/likewise-open5/+bug/34533212:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 345332 in likewise-open5 (Ubuntu) "Build system only supports i?86 and x86_64" [Undecided,Won't fix]12:27
popeyKeybuk: keyboard layout wrong for you?12:27
popeyKeybuk: bug 63020312:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 630203 in kbd (Ubuntu) "Macintosh keyboard layout is wrong" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63020312:27
cjwatsonpitti: looks fine12:27
dokottx: well, meanwhile, ARM is supported ... NCommander, did the patches land upstream?12:28
pitticjwatson: ok, thanks; uploading12:28
persiattx, There's PPC support upstream: that bug is just kinda amusing.12:29
Keybukpopey: haven't explored fully12:29
KeybukI know the touchpad is difficult12:29
Keybukto right click a menu and choose an option in it is kinda impossible12:29
popeyI resorted to using a mouse ;(12:30
ogradoko, bug 517300 says it was forwarded ... not sure it was ever applied12:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 517300 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Lucid) "[armel] likewise-open needs porting to ARM" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51730012:31
Keybukpopey: they keyboard seems mostly right, what's wrong for you?12:32
* cjwatson punts popey's bug off to the right package12:32
cjwatson/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/gb is the relevant file12:32
* popey reboots to find out12:34
popeythanks cjwatson12:34
popeyKeybuk: pressing the "' & ~" key next to Z gives me "< & >" respectively12:38
KeybukI think I expected the ~ key to be next to 112:39
Keybukand have been using it there just fine ;-)12:39
popeywell, yes, thats a nice place to put it, but wrong according to mr jobs12:40
ttxpersia: eh, I suspect they added it later, then, because that's the answer I got from Jerry Carter at that time.12:44
persiattx, Oh.  I thought it was earlier.  As far as I've been able to tell, the PPC support is only for old Mac OS X.12:44
persiaBut yeah, I don't expect upsteam to support ppc/linux today :)12:44
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
=== jjohansen is now known as jj-afk
=== hunger|work_ is now known as hunger|work
ogramvo, lol !13:12
ogramvo, you could just have told me to drop the 4 from the channel name :)13:12
tkamppetercjwatson, the ghostscript with corrected debian/changelog is uploaded and in the queue now.13:18
mvoogra: well, its not the only fix needed :)13:18
mvoogra: and honestly its a bit silly from s-c to mandate that ;)13:18
ograbut would be an easy workaround on my side13:19
mvoogra: there is another problem in the code left that I just fixed13:19
mvoogra: so its a good and worthwhile report13:19
ograk :)13:19
ograthanks for the quick fix13:19
ograi'll add testing results to the bug13:19
* ogra goes to find lunch13:20
mvoogra: I think the currently .eula display is broken too, I check that out now, if you could move that to plain text that would make it easier13:20
mvoogra: after lunch :)13:20
ogramvo, no prob, will do13:20
ograits not a real eula anyway, no ?13:20
ograthere wont be a yes/no question i guess13:20
ogra(or accept/cancel or how you wanna call it)13:21
mvoogra: yeah, I think we should just name it "info" instead or ".description"13:21
mvoogra: nowdays with s-c there is no need for yes/no anymore, that is legacy from gnome-app-install13:21
ograwell, there is13:21
ografor TI at least13:21
ograsome packages ship third party stuff that requires eula accepting13:22
ograwhich TI has no control over13:22
mvoogra: aha, ok.13:22
mvoogra: so we keep it as eula and write "if you enable this source you accept the eula"?13:22
ograhow does s-c handle debconf questions with eula like java stuff for example ?13:23
ogradoes anything pop up on a per package basis ?13:23
mvothat should work just fine13:23
persiaIsn't that just the normal debconf frontend?13:23
ograor is it just ignored13:23
mvothe gnome frontend will be used during install13:23
ograah, perfect13:23
ogracurrent TI packages steal preinst from java i belive13:23
persiamvo, Always GNOME, or whichever is appropriate?13:23
ograso that should just work ... but i'll clearify if we cant just leave the s-c eula and drop debconf fiddling13:24
persiaThat wouldn't be safe anyway, in case people use other means to enable a channel.13:24
mvopersia: gnome iirc, not sure what is up with the qt one these days13:25
ograanyway, lunch13:25
cjwatsontkamppeter: thanks13:28
LBoI'm not sure if I'm in the right channel but I have a question about the python bindings for libindicate13:28
LBoIs it possible to start the server in one process and add messages to that server in another process?13:28
LBoWith the python binding13:28
Keybukmy office has gotten so untidy, I'm starting to think that it would be better to just get a new office13:39
cjwatsonsounds familiar13:39
ogra_cmpcKeybuk, come over to the arm team, our devices are smaller :)13:39
sorenQuotes page!13:40
persiaNot necessarily: I have x86 machines that are smaller than some of my arm machines13:40
* soren misses the Quotes page13:40
ogra_cmpcsoren, btw, i bought a new blinker :)13:40
ogra_cmpcit had a car attached *g*13:40
Keybukogra_cmpc: it's not devices, it's mostly notes13:41
ogra_cmpcnext europe uds you dont have to drive scared13:41
sorenHeheh :) Did you keep the car it came with or was it just a vessel for your new blinker?13:41
KeybukI appear to now be using laptops as bookmarks in notebooks13:41
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
ogra_cmpcsoren, didnt fit, so i kept the car too :) http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/car/0180175676001.jpg13:42
sorenogra_cmpc: Nice :)13:42
zygawhere is this magic repo with all the -dbg packages?13:45
* zyga needs to hunt some crashes13:45
zygapitti, could you please point me to the debug symbol repository?13:47
persiaddebs.ubuntu.com ?13:48
ogra_cmpczyga, the debigging wikipage should have it13:48
ogra_cmpci thik there is also a subdir needed13:48
ogra_cmpcnot only ddebs.ubuntu.com13:48
persiaWell, sure, but that's enough to analyse archive structure :p13:49
* zyga could not find any information about this apart from pitti's email from 200713:49
ubottuFor help debugging your program, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures13:49
zygapersia, thanks!13:51
ubottuFor help debugging your program, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures13:51
persiabah.  Something shuold point at the right URL :(  I suppose it's not hard to find from the landing page, but...13:52
zygapersia, I found a bug in dbus menu and I need symbols to report a proper bug13:52
persiazyga, You know about the retracers, right?  That if you're using Ubuntu packages, and you crash, apport will upload the coredump, and the retracers will do the symbol insertion for you?13:54
zygapersia, this bug has several duplicates but for each report the retracer failed13:54
persiaAnyway, for future note, #ubuntu-bugs is great resource for information about debugging, filing good bugs, etc.13:54
zygapersia, thanks :-)13:55
tseliotpitti: do you know why I can't find linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 in Hardy?13:57
alouriequestion: who would be the person to talk to about uds.ubuntu.com?14:09
pittizyga: right, what persia said (sorry, was out for lunch)14:21
zygapitti, thanks, I got it now14:21
pittitseliot: it's only in hardy-updates indeed14:22
pittilinux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 | | hardy-updates/multiverse | source14:22
pittitseliot: I don't remember any more, did we introduce that post-release, or was that an abi bump or so?14:22
tseliotpitti: that doesn't depend on the ABI as it uses DKMS. Maybe we introduced it post-release14:23
tseliotit was some time ago...14:24
tseliotpitti: I'm asking as I need to update it now because of LP: #64251814:24
tseliotbug #64251814:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 642518 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu Karmic) "[MASTER] package fglrx 2:8.723.1-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: Kernel fix for CVE-2010-3081 breaks fglrx" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64251814:24
pittitseliot: is linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 the dkms version?14:25
tseliotpitti: yep14:25
* tseliot has to update any fglrx package in hardy, jaunty, karmic and lucid :/14:26
pittiugh, good luck14:27
tseliotthanks, I'll need it ;)14:28
tseliotsmb: BTW I'm working on a patch for Hardy which we'll have to apply to both linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 and linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (which the kernel team maintains)14:29
tseliotapw: ^14:29
smbtseliot, Ok got that ready already14:29
tseliotsmb: ah, even better. Will you share the patch?14:30
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
smbtseliot, sure, I'll send you a mail14:30
cjwatsonyou know that your problem has become complicated when you find yourself stracing automake14:30
tseliotsmb: thanks14:31
smbtseliot, Had to modify it slightly as lrm does not make use of make.sh14:31
tseliotsmb: ah, I'll have to check lrm-envy as I don't remember whether it uses make.sh or not14:32
smbtseliot, mail is away. Maybe it works for envy the same14:33
smbShould actually not matter that way whether you come from make.sh or not14:33
tseliotsmb: I hope it does, as I don't really remember how lrm-envy works14:33
tseliotyes, as long as you get that flag from somewhere14:34
smbUnderstandable, its so long ago. Had to dig around in lrm as well14:34
* tseliot nods14:34
tseliotsmb: BTW have you built lrm with your patch14:40
tseliotlocally, that is14:40
smbtseliot, yes14:40
tseliotah, fix committed in Hardy14:41
smbtseliot, test build failed with the change to make.sh. Thats how I noticed it is not used there14:41
smbtseliot, Yes and uploaded to proposed now14:41
tseliotsmb: great14:41
smbpitti, Btw, could you accept it?14:42
smbpitti, l-r-m for hardy, that is. Its the fix for the fglrx compile failure after the last security upadte14:42
tseliotsmb: I guess we should request an SRU in the bug report anyway14:42
smbtseliot, who? :)14:43
pittismb: looking; takes a bit longer since it was just uploaded (no debdiff yet)14:43
smbpitti, Ok, np. It was really just done14:43
smbpitti, Seems one of us ( tseliot  or me ) needs to add SRU info to the bug14:44
pittiseems fine? tasks look alright14:44
tseliotsmb: I was planning on doing it as soon as all of my sources are ready. But if you want to do it first, please go ahead14:44
smbtseliot, Ok, I'll update the bug and subscribe the sru team14:45
pittismb: hold on, I'm currently wiggling the bug14:45
pittiu-sru gets autosubscribed14:45
* smb holds14:45
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
tseliotsmb: perfect, thanks14:45
pittiit shoudl be clear, but of course we'll waive the 7 day period for this14:46
smbpitti, great thanks. Yeah it sort of is fixup. Though l-r-m in hardy is probably slightly less critical. It is not recompiled locally. So it would have broken next time we would try to upload it.14:48
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
smbpitti, otoh the security relevant part would still be vulnerable if we do not recompile it...14:50
keesassuming fglrx uses it unsafely, that is14:50
smbkees, correct as fglrx in lrm was compiled before the securty update it still would use the old implementation14:52
smb(as that was an inline)14:52
* kees nods14:52
smbpitti, I assume yes, but done also meant you are done wiggling the bug?14:53
pittismb: right14:53
smbok, just wanted to be sure not to step on some body parts. ;)14:54
pitticjwatson, mdz, kees, Keybuk: TB meeting reminder (3 mins)14:57
pittisabdfl seems to be off today?14:57
keespitti: yup, there's another meeting in there atm14:57
=== sikon is now known as lucidfox
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
keesdoko: so, how do I turn on all the CompilerFlags defaults for llvm?15:31
dokokees: -O99? no, sorry, don't see what you want ...15:32
keesdoko: I mean -fstack-protector, -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE etc15:34
dokokees: in the JIT, or in clang?15:35
* kees does not know llvm at all.15:35
keesisn't it a C compiler?15:35
dokoyou can use it as a C compiler too15:36
dokoso llvm-gcc-4.2 should be easy15:36
dokoclang you'll have to look at15:36
keesah-ha, but the things we use it for are the JIT, not the C compiler? if so, I'll ignore this some more15:36
dokothe JIT, have fun ...15:36
dokokees: but then, why don't you start modifying hotspot in openjdk first? ;P15:37
dokoohh, and llvm-gcc-4.5 should already be done15:38
dokoif you did gcc-4.515:38
keesI'm not touching JITs yet :)15:39
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
maxbIt's quite late in the cycle, and there is still no sun-java6 in the maverick partner repository. Is anyone visual on getting that uploaded in time?15:54
ogra_acthere is a maverick-partner already ?15:56
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
maxbDoesn't a partner repository spring into existence at the creation of a new distroseries?15:58
ogra_acyes, like -security, but nobody uploads to them before release usually15:59
ogra_acnot sure if partnaer is different in that regard, but i wouldnt expect so15:59
ogra_acsince you need a stable release to compile the partner packages against16:00
ogra_aci wouldnt expect partners to be keen to rebuild for every changed dep during a dev cycle16:01
tseliotpitti: can you approve the following source packages in -proposed, please? linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 (in hardy), fglrx-installer (in jaunty, karmic, lucid)16:01
ogra_acmvo, is there any change in update-notifiers behavior in maverick ?16:02
maxbHmm. Well, sun-java6 is a bit of an oddity, as it's actually synced from Debian non-free16:02
mvoogra_ac: no, why?16:02
ogra_aci havent seen it auto-popup since a while16:02
ogra_aceven there are updates pending and i ran apt-get update16:02
ogra_acGrueMaster said he doesnt see it on hos x86 netbook either16:03
mvoogra_ac: its magic (too much of it) - you can run "update-notifier --debug-update " to see why its not comming up16:04
ogra_acwill do16:05
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ogra_acmvo, so it looks like it reports the right amounts of packages etc but u-m never pops up16:21
mvoogra_ac: so the logic is that if you upgraded manually in between (apt-get, synaptic etc) it will reset the 7 day counter16:21
ScottKogra_ac: Remember it was decided that not telling you about updates is a good thing.16:31
ScottKTheMuso: Ping (re your espeak upload in the queue)16:32
ogra_acScottK yeah, but it used to pop up if i manually ran apt-get update16:32
ogra_acin lucid at least16:32
ogra_acbut if it waits seven days .... well ... shrug16:32
pittitseliot: meeting-o-mania, will do ASAP16:33
pittitseliot: no -envy in https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1 ?16:33
tseliotpitti: np ;)16:33
tseliotpitti: that's in NEW16:33
tseliotpitti: [ubuntu/hardy-proposed] linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 (New)16:34
tseliotthis is what the email that I received says16:35
tseliotpitti: I guess it's perceived as an ABI bump (as in lrm) but there's no ABI here16:36
tseliotas I use DKMS16:36
smbI though all kernel modules also NEW before finally getting out...16:37
smbI was surprised once but then thought I just may have forgotten that feature. Though it seemed strange as the abi had not changed... Maybe a new "feature"16:38
cjwatsonif you upload any package name, binary or source, which is not currently in the archive, then it will hit NEW16:39
cjwatsonthis one is a little odd16:39
cjwatsonI suspect that uploads to -proposed don't magically inherit overrides from -updates16:40
cjwatsonbecause linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 is only in hardy-updates, not in hardy16:40
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tkamppeterpitti, it is about bug 632094 and bug 618017. I have a possible fix. The self-extraction Python script for the PPD archives throughs Tracebacks when simply killing the process, like entering "/usr/lib/cups/driver/openprinting-ppds list | less" end then pressing "q" without scrolling down before. I have a simple fix for that, should I upload it for Maverick?16:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 632094 in foomatic-db (Ubuntu) "openprinting-ppds crashed with IOError in main()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63209416:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 618017 in foomatic-db (Ubuntu) "openprinting-ppds crashed with IOError in ls()" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61801716:59
pittitseliot: hm, did yuo happen to upload fglrx-installer/karmic twice?17:01
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pittitseliot: I just accepted it, but now it's in the queue qgain17:02
pittitseliot: ah, no, you have to reupload17:02
pittiFAILED: fglrx-installer (The source fglrx-installer - 2:8.660-0ubuntu5 is already accepted in ubuntu/lucid and you cannot upload the same version within the same distribution17:02
pittitseliot: ^17:03
tseliotpitti: I don't think so and I received only 1 email about it17:03
pittitseliot: I'll reject it; please let me know if you have a new upload; use ubuntu4.1?17:03
tseliotpitti: oh, I see, I'll do it again in a second17:03
tseliotpitti: is it only lucid or shall I do the same for karmic?17:04
pittitseliot: no, it's only karmic17:04
pittitseliot: jaunty and lucid went fine17:04
pittisorry, I already fired the "plz test" mail for karmic17:04
tseliotpitti: I misread that message. Ok, I'll reupload karmic's source17:05
tseliotpitti: done (it's 4.1 this time)17:06
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tseliotpitti: ok, it's waiting for approval now17:11
pittitseliot: accepted17:11
pittitseliot: thanks a lot!17:11
tseliotpitti: thanks for approving all of those packages ;)17:11
tkamppeterpitti, if you are on approving packages now, can you approve my ghostscript (the newer one, I have fixed a copy'n'paste error in changelog)?17:14
pittiwill have a look later17:14
=== mathiaz_ is now known as mathiaz
mathiazttx: what's your take on bug 641001?17:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 641001 in puppet (Ubuntu Maverick) "cacrl should be use instead of hostcrl when generating apache2 passenger configuration" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64100117:35
mathiazttx: should it be included before release or maverick-updates is ok as a 0 day sRU?17:36
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ScottKmathiaz: My advice is that for things you would SRU, as long as they don't impact the kernel, would be to go ahead (speaking for myself, don't take that as release team approval)18:13
pittiat least until the RC18:16
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tkamppeterpitti, can you have a look at bug 618017? It is a rather trivial patch to eliminate annoying Apport pop-ups caused by Python Tracebacks. Should we take it into Maverick?18:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 618017 in splix (Ubuntu) "FFE: openprinting-ppds crashed with IOError in ls()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61801718:26
pittisimple crash fixes always sound fine18:27
pittitkamppeter: this is not an FFE, btw18:27
pittiit's not a feature at all18:27
tkamppeterpitti, How is it called then?18:27
pittia bug fix :)18:27
pittithere's no particular procedure for those, just upload and wait for a release team member to review the upload/bug18:28
tkamppeterFFE removed. pitti, should I prepare and upload the packages?18:28
pittitkamppeter: please do18:28
pittithanks for fixing!18:28
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ttxmathiaz: I'd say before release19:00
mathiazttx: I've uploaded the package to maverick19:00
mathiazttx: we'll see how it goes :)19:00
mathiazttx: puppet is on the -server isos19:00
ttxmathiaz: I'll track it19:00
mathiazttx: that's why I wasn't sure if it could be uploaded19:00
ttxoh, it always can.19:01
ScottKTheMuso: unping.19:12
* nigelb hugs lucidfox :)19:34
* lucidfox hugs back19:34
lucidfoxThat was a bit random, nigelb :)19:34
nigelblucidfox: More like a bit delayed :)19:35
nigelbThanks for posting the interview :)19:35
lucidfoxnigelb> I thought it was about my conversion to the evil Kult of the blue K19:36
nigelblucidfox: wait, where is that? scrollback?19:37
lucidfoxnigelb> Yes, and #kubuntu-devel19:38
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
* nigelb will look19:39
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=== ivoks is now known as ivoks-afk
Keybukclearly the touchpad support needs some improvement :-/22:12
faganKeybuk: well this is the first relase22:15
Keybukfirst release of?22:15
faganthe multitouch stuff22:15
KeybukI'm not using the multitouch stuff22:16
fagandamn I really should read stuff right22:16
fagani read touchpad as multitouch22:16
Keybukhaving a few difficulties right-clicking and middle-clicking with the MBP touchpad22:18
faganKeybuk: isnt the MBP touchpad supposed to be getting better now22:19
Keybukyeah, it can right-click by clicking with two fingers22:19
Keybukbut you can't, for example, right-click and then move the pointer22:19
Keybukwhich is kinda necessary to use context menus22:19
Keybukthe other main problem seems to be that if you change fingers at all, it stops whatever you're doing22:20
Keybukso if you click and drag an icon, and add another finger because you ran out of touchpad, it drops the icon there and then22:20
faganthats not good22:20
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
Keybukbut hey, just about everything else works22:26
Keybukeven the keyboard backlight :p22:27
faganhave you tried utouch with it yet22:27
* fagan got scrolling on all 4 fingers with his crappy old laptop touchpad 22:28
Keybukfagan: no, I probably should22:30
Keybuktwo-finger scrolling actually works on this with the bcm5974 driver22:30
faganIm not even going to bother with the pinch and the other stuff id say22:31
faganbut the two three and four fingers work easy on my old computer22:31
faganwhich I found very strange22:31
SpamapSlifeless: you do realize your "how do we package multiple versions of the same lib" question is causing my head to explode, right? ;)22:53
ionHasn’t that been done for ages? E.g. libcurl3, libcurl422:56
ionGtk 1.2, 2.022:56
faganyeah ion is right22:58
faganthere always was a lot of them22:58
faganso developers who dont port their app to the newer version can stay in the repo22:58
faganand in cases like python where we havent moved to 3 yet but we still have it in the repo so people can use it22:59
SpamapSion: compile time/link time checks are easy23:03
SpamapSTry building an app on top of say, ruby on rails 2.x right now..23:04
SpamapSthen ubuntu ships rails 3.023:04
SpamapSand your app implodes23:04
SpamapSOr maybe even just a minor release version where the developers inadvertently broke the API in a python module..23:05
SpamapSYes you should fix your app to work with the new API version.. but there's no link time check thats failing because you didn't.23:05
SpamapSIts just some random runtime fatal error.23:05
SpamapSUnless we find a way to get 100% code coverage unit tests to write themselves, its monumentally harder to test for API compatibility in scripting languages.23:06
lifelessSpamapS: its the same answer as for c libraries23:07
lifelessSpamapS: forget about perfection, just use the same rules that gems, eggs and jars themselves use.23:07
lifelessSpamapS: solved problem23:07
SpamapSlifeless: what rules do eggs use?23:08
SpamapSI honestly don't know. ;)23:08
SpamapSand that just solves the "existence on the system" problem right? you still have to munge your load path to get the ones you want. Don't you?23:09
lifelesssetuptools knows how to do it23:09
lifeless.pth files23:09
SpamapS.pth appends23:09
SpamapSI know that ruby has solved this quite well with rvm http://rvm.beginrescueend.com/23:11
ionYeah, a decent deployment system basically takes a snapshot of all the dependencies and pushes that along with an app release to production, assuming you’ve tested the combination first.23:12
SpamapSrubygems actually has it doable in code23:13
SpamapSyou can say    gem 'libFoo', '> 3.0'23:13
lifelessSpamapS: 'Require'23:23
ScottKWhich works great until libFoo does something incompatible in 3.1 that got released yesterday.23:23
lifelessfrom pkg_resources import require; require("foo==3.0.0")23:24
lifelessScottK: the newer-versions-break-stuff isn't limited to ABI changes in C libraries though23:24
lifelesssimple behaviour things can do it, so thats not unique to python23:25
lifelessand the fix is the same: upload again with a capped version range23:25
SpamapSlifeless: so analogous to the way rubygems is doing it.23:30
lifelessSpamapS: yes23:33
SpamapSlifeless: given that, it would actually be better to embrace rubygems/pypi/cpan than try to fold them into .deb wouldn't it?23:35
lifelessSpamapS: that is why I said 'upstream' in my mail :)23:35
lifelessSpamapS: but I think the deb wrapping has a lot of value:23:36
lifeless - we've tested combinations23:36
lifeless - no worries about MITM attacks and can use the apt toolchain to get what you need mirrored in advance etc23:36
SpamapSlifeless: and licensing, and other things too...23:37
mathiazSpamapS: IMO we should embrace upstream tools23:37
SpamapSmathiaz: agreed 100%23:38
mathiazSpamapS: and make sure they don't break apt/dpkg.23:38
mathiazSpamapS: IMO it's unreasonable to try to package everything in the world23:38
SpamapSeven a bad idea23:38
SpamapSwe're talking python, but I'd like to consider java for a moment23:39
SpamapSmathiaz: so for Hadoop/cassandra, they need lots of libs from maven/ivy/etc...23:40
mathiazSpamapS: right23:40
SpamapSmathiaz: but we'd like to make sure they are licensed correctly, working, etc.23:40
SpamapSseems like the upstream tools aren't going to help us do that.23:40
mathiazSpamapS: and the versin of the libs are different for every one of them23:40
mathiazSpamapS: I think one of the first step is to decide whether we'd allow to have multiple version of the same library in the archive23:41
lifelessI think we should embrace upstream tools - yes. But that can mean many things.23:42
lifelessFor me, I think we want to write thunks for them so that:23:42
lifeless - they can request dependencies (even at runtime) from the package manager.23:42
SpamapSmathiaz: Yes, we should allow multiple versions. No we should not allow unlimited versions. ;)23:42
lifeless - we find a way such that we can represent enough of the magical complexity that they have, to work well.23:43
mathiazSpamapS: right - IIUC in the java world that would actually be the case23:43
SpamapSlifeless: for scripting languages, its all runtime. ;)23:43
lifelessI'm thinking the dbus service that installs packages, sort of thing.23:43
mathiazSpamapS: one version of a library per application23:43
lifelessmathiaz: that would be too restrictive for some java stuff.23:44
SpamapSlifeless: how do you authorize a runtime program for installing things though? that seems rather haphazard at first glance.23:44
mathiazlifeless: some application could have 2.0.1 and 2.1.2 of the same jar?23:44
lifelessmathiaz: yes23:44
lifelessSpamapS: theres an existing service for it23:45
lifelessSpamapS: on the buildds we could just have it say 'true'23:45
lifelessSpamapS: packagekit23:45
mathiazSpamapS: I'm not sure I get your use case?23:45
mathiazSpamapS: dependencies can be sorted at package build time?23:46
lifelessmathiaz: OSGI23:46
mathiazSpamapS: or when an application is installed (via gem, maven, etc..)23:46
lifelessmathiaz: you can't actually sensibly ask maven to predict all the deps in advance23:46
lifelessmathiaz: because its got a complex minilanguage; better to make the callbacks /work/.23:46
mathiazlifeless: agreed23:46
lifelessand if something is needed that isn't packaged, error, and then we package it etc.23:47
* mathiaz nods23:47
mathiazIMO we should provide a maven repo available from the buildd networks23:47
mathiazand populate the maven repo on a per need basis23:47
SpamapSwell with maven thats at least doable at build time23:47
SpamapSI feel though that the same solutions for maven/java will not work for scripting languages23:48
mathiazwell - populating the maven repo == packaging them correctly in apt23:48
lifelessmathiaz: thats roughly what I'm saying23:48
SpamapStell the buildd to install on runtime need. Then run the unit tests. Without code coverage, we miss deps.23:48
lifelessmathiaz: except inject a deb-backed maven repo implementation23:48
mathiazlifeless: right - and having a pseudo maven service that answers if the version of the dep is already packaged23:49
lifelessmathiaz: so there isn't a 'regular' maven repo at all.23:49
* mathiaz nods23:49
lifelessjust a maven-repo that talks to apt; and apt can handle N versions of a library to handle things like (e.g.) hudson23:49
lifelessor atlassian stuff, etc23:49
SpamapSlifeless: so rather than using the local mode that maven-debian-helper uses, you'd have a maven backend that helps resolve things?23:49
lifelessSpamapS: right, maven-debian-helper is broken by design23:50
mathiazSpamapS: the backend could also help to create the build dependency23:50
mathiazSpamapS: what does maven-debian-helper actually do?23:50
SpamapSwell in this case.. really all we're talking about is building our own limited maven repository.. doesn't need to be special at all... we just have to apply our packaging policies to the bits in the maven repository23:51
SpamapSand the same would work for pypi/gems/cpan/pear/etc.23:51
SpamapSand be a lot easier than trying to .deb them all23:51
mathiazSpamapS: well - the output would always to be driven by .deb23:51
mathiazIIUC the problem is in building the dependencies - right?23:51
SpamapSmathiaz: maven-debian-helper puts a java library in a local repository with a special version "debian" and then tries to muck with the spec file of other things to not require a specific version, but rather to require the version "debian"23:52
mathiazif the dependencies are all packaged, the correct depends can be generated?23:52
lifelessSpamapS: I wasn't proposing a maven repo; rather a maven 'repo implementation'23:52
mathiazlifeless: that maven pseudo-repo would be used by buildd?23:52
SpamapSmathiaz: No, I'm saying it would be far easier to simply approve/disapprove syncs into a maven repository than to try and make .debs for everything.23:52
mathiazlifeless: or ubuntu developers to figure out what needs to be packaged?23:52
SpamapSI mean.. big picture thinking here..23:53
SpamapSwe already do this for *debian* -> *ubuntu* .. why not *maven* -> *ubuntu-maven* ?23:53
lifelessmathiaz: uh, 'an adapter from the maven object api to apt'. Is what I'm proposing.23:53
SpamapSthe goal is to be able to repeat builds, sustain support, etc. right?23:53
mathiazSpamapS: yeah - the problem then is about ubuntu licensing policies23:53
lifelessSpamapS: licence metadata perhaps?23:53
mathiazSpamapS: yeah - and maven repo is a binary repo IIUC23:54
SpamapSI'd bet money on maven repositories being built in a way to be extensible.23:54
lifelessSpamapS: I'd be happiest with a (source jar)->deb machine23:54
mathiazSpamapS: sources for every version are not necessarly available23:54
SpamapSTrue, maven isn't a source repo, which kills that idea. ;)23:54
lifelessSpamapS: I'll take your money; jars are extensible but at that point why not just reflect it straight int oapt.23:54
lifelessSpamapS: maven is both binary and source.23:54
lifelessfoo-1.2-source.jar and foo-1.2.jar23:55
mathiazlifeless: are *all* sources available for each binary in the maven repo?23:55
SpamapSThose sources are often very tricky to build again into the same binary23:56
mathiazlifeless: I thought binary jars could be uploaded to maven without their source23:56
SpamapSno source23:56
ScottKlifeless: Of course not.  I guess my point is that providing a versioning capability is one thing, but developers still have to be willing to keep API/ABI compatibility or increment the version.  IME there's only a limited amount of discipline for that in the Python world and ~none in the Ruby/RoR world.23:58

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