Pendulummaco: are you on ubuntu-accessibility?00:49
macoml? no00:49
Pendulumsomeone just posted to the ml asking about kubuntu accessibility00:49
macooh uhhh....nonexistent?01:31
macoi mean, we have an onscreen keyboard, but not for kdm til 10.1001:32
macoannd qt... expects there to be a system-wide a11y framework. which linux doesnt have. so it fails for screenreaders01:32
Pendulumis there a screen magnifier?01:33
macoumm....lets see a11y settings have a visual bell and a bunch of stuff about how the keyboard should work...01:35
macothere's 2 colour schemes available by default for dark background with light text and you can adjust font sizes to huge for folks who need the high contrast01:37
maco(of course, theyd need someone /else/ to set that up)01:37
macoyes, kmag is installed by default01:38
macoits recommended by the kubuntu-desktop package01:38
macoomfg this is confusing01:41
macothings are displayed in 3 different zoom levels at once O_O01:42
macoless confusing if i unmaximise it... it has to be on top and if its maximised...yeah.... dont need a zoom of the zoom01:44
JanCmaco: Qt4 supposedly supports AT-SPI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistive_Technology_Service_Provider_Interface ?01:55
JanCas does Gtk, Java, Mozilla, OOo, ...01:55
macoi dont think theres any way to enable it in a kde env though01:56
JanCin any case, there is a system-wide a11y API02:00
JanCI think it was designed by Sun originally02:00
macommk. i thought at-spi was a gnome thing and hadnt gone fd.o-way yet02:00
JanCwell, Gtk, Java, Mozilla & OOo originally, Qt4 added support around 2005...02:01
JanCor at least Trolltech announced it then  ;)02:05
JanChttp://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.0/qt4-accessibility.html sounds like they did implement it02:06
JanCthe reason why it was first implemented in Gtk/GNOME, Java, OOo & Mozilla is probably that Sun paid for it...02:07
JanCas they needed it for some US government contracts02:08
PendulumI know Sun was one of the big funders for Gnome Accessibility (until last winter, of course)02:12
JanCyeah  :-(02:15
JanCstupid Oracle02:15
JanCmaybe people should sue them for that, as that seems their favourite way of talking to others  ;)02:16
charlie-tcaGood Morning17:27
charlie-tcasince I am not spread thin enough yet, are we doing an accessibility session for UbuntuOpenWeek ?17:27
PendulumI'd love it if we could, however, I am out of town for a doctor's appointment most of that week17:30
Pendulumand I know TheMuso doesn't usually do things like open week because it's middle of the night for him17:30
charlie-tcaI could do one, what do we want to have ?17:31
* charlie-tca keeps in mind he will also be doing a Xubuntu session, as project lead and QA17:32
Pendulumhmm... good question17:32
Pendulumcharlie-tca: btw, would you be at all interested (if it's okay with TheMuso ) in helping nigelb run a community-based accessibility session at UDS?17:33
PendulumI didn't get sponsorship so I can't do it, but I'd like there to be *something*17:33
charlie-tcaI got sponsorship, so I can do it17:33
Pendulum(I'll be there remotely for it, but you can't lead remotely)17:33
Pendulumcool :)17:33
Pendulumthen I'll set up the blueprint and submit it17:33
macoi was just saying "jee theres no a11y blueprint yet"19:23
Pendulummaco: yeah, between my accident and now the fact that I need to check with jcastro about if I need to specify charlie-tca and nigelb anywhere on the blueprint19:24
macodo we know any europeans or aussies with knowledge of their country's sign yet?19:27
Pendulumnot that I know of19:28
Pendulumyou should join the ubuntu-accessibility ML and ask :P19:28
macoid specify one of them on "assignee" btw19:28
PendulumI just want to make sure that I don't need to assign one as the drafter, too19:29
charlie-tcaPut me down20:04
charlie-tcaSo, for openweek, general accessibility in Ubuntu? What's available, what's we want to see; questions and answers?21:02
charlie-tcaAccessibiltiy is Important - session on2010-10-13; 14:00 UTC; Charlie Kravetz21:13
maco"why does ubuntu use so much webkit while knowing its inaccessible?"21:14
mgdmwhat's up with webkit?21:14
mgdm(sorry - not been paying attention)21:14
macodoesnt work with screenreaders21:14
macobut the software center and part of the installer use it21:15
JanCI assume they use it because mozilla makes it complicated to integrate their browser engine widget  ;)21:53
JanCmaco: I know somebody who was talking about learning dutch sign language and pointed him to your project, maybe he can help you  ;)21:55
JanConce he starts his lessons...21:55
vishmaco: webkit in SC? afaik , webkit is not used in the maverick version21:59
vishthe accessibility concerns were the reason for the change..22:00
vishmaco: it now uses gtk22:00
macoJanC: i had the impression using mozilla wasnt too hard up until the part where ubuntu made a policy vetoing all apps that do so22:03
JanCmaco: AFAIK mozilla's rendering engine is a PITA if you have to access things inside it from outside it22:05
JanCit makes things more difficult for the programmer22:05
JanCit's like talking to another person who speaks another language by using a translator22:06
JanC(I never tried it myself, but that's what I understood from an Epiphany developer)22:07
AlanBellthere is only XUL22:08
AlanBellas it says in the DTD22:08
mgdmthat was a work of genius22:08
JanCI have no problem with the mozilla/XUL platform per sé, it just doesn't integrate well with other frameworks22:09
JanCI mean, nobody tries to use Qt widgets inside Gtk or vice versa, right?  :P22:10
JanCmaco: what's the best thing to do for people who want to help?22:26
macodepends on their skills...22:27
JanCI'm thinking about adding support for additional sign languages22:27
macooh for gally?22:27
JanCor testing them or such22:27
macosignal out22:28
JanC"signal out"?22:29
macoJanC: my network signal was about to drop due to tunnel23:35
JanCah  ☺23:36
macook so anyway, about gally... i have to make kstandarddir stuff go, and thats what i'll probably be doing tomorrow when i get home from hospital (nothing serious, dont worry) and then itll be released version 0.5 and whats in mav and yay23:36
macoversion 1.0 i want to have support for > 1 language, which, once i have kstandarddir support, shouldnt be too hard to plug in there... add a few loops and it should be good...but part of that will be adding KGetHotNewStuff support to download more tarballs of lessons23:37
JanCI was more thinking about how non-technical people can help  ;)23:37
maconon-tech people can help with making lessons23:38
macomake a list of lessons and vocab that should be in them, for example23:38
macoor if slightly more technical but not a programmer, turn such lists into xml files23:38
JanCyeah, is there a ML for this or something?23:38
macoor if having a camera and ability to use openshot/pitivi/whatever make videos / photos of signs23:38
macommm nope. figured people could file bugs like "add a lesson for names of foods"23:39
JanCmost of them probably don't know what they can do  ;)23:40
* maco checks lp intro pages23:40
JanCanyway, the person I was talking about is going to start a course of sign language soon, so he doesn't know anything yet, but he was looking for a rehearsal tool23:41
macohttps://edge.launchpad.net/gally-asl  <-- does what i put there make sense for telling people things that help?23:42
macohavent got enough lessons for him to use it that way yet23:43
JanCwell, IME making lessons is often more effective rehearsal than plain rehearsal  ;)23:45
JanCmight still be useful to have a ML (or forum or such)23:46
JanCbut I'll forward what you linked to23:46
charlie-tcacould use the accessibility mailing list?23:47
macocharlie-tca: nah this is for a separate project i started that happens to interst a11y23:48
JanCmaco: does Gally support rehearsal currently, or only lessons?23:52
macohow do you mean rehearsal? like you sign in front of a webcam?23:53
JanCwell, two things: 1. try to understand what is shown and 2. try to sign a given expression, then see if what you did was right23:54
JanCnot necessarily have the program tell you if you were right/wrong  ;)23:55
JanCthat would be possible too (e.g. using OpenCV) but require more work23:56
macothere is research going on to recognize signs people are doing from webcam, but its *hard*23:56
macobut yeah, quizzing is planned for 1.023:56
JanChey, you have #gally too  ;)23:56
JanCerkan^: is another person who might be able to help with dutch sign language23:58

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