| Pendulum | maco: are you on ubuntu-accessibility? | 00:49 |
|---|---|---|
| maco | ml? no | 00:49 |
| maco | chan...obviously | 00:49 |
| Pendulum | someone just posted to the ml asking about kubuntu accessibility | 00:49 |
| maco | oh uhhh....nonexistent? | 01:31 |
| maco | i mean, we have an onscreen keyboard, but not for kdm til 10.10 | 01:32 |
| maco | annd qt... expects there to be a system-wide a11y framework. which linux doesnt have. so it fails for screenreaders | 01:32 |
| Pendulum | is there a screen magnifier? | 01:33 |
| maco | umm....lets see a11y settings have a visual bell and a bunch of stuff about how the keyboard should work... | 01:35 |
| maco | there's 2 colour schemes available by default for dark background with light text and you can adjust font sizes to huge for folks who need the high contrast | 01:37 |
| maco | (of course, theyd need someone /else/ to set that up) | 01:37 |
| maco | yes, kmag is installed by default | 01:38 |
| maco | its recommended by the kubuntu-desktop package | 01:38 |
| maco | omfg this is confusing | 01:41 |
| maco | things are displayed in 3 different zoom levels at once O_O | 01:42 |
| maco | less confusing if i unmaximise it... it has to be on top and if its maximised...yeah.... dont need a zoom of the zoom | 01:44 |
| JanC | maco: Qt4 supposedly supports AT-SPI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistive_Technology_Service_Provider_Interface ? | 01:55 |
| JanC | as does Gtk, Java, Mozilla, OOo, ... | 01:55 |
| maco | i dont think theres any way to enable it in a kde env though | 01:56 |
| JanC | in any case, there is a system-wide a11y API | 02:00 |
| JanC | I think it was designed by Sun originally | 02:00 |
| maco | mmk. i thought at-spi was a gnome thing and hadnt gone fd.o-way yet | 02:00 |
| JanC | well, Gtk, Java, Mozilla & OOo originally, Qt4 added support around 2005... | 02:01 |
| JanC | or at least Trolltech announced it then ;) | 02:05 |
| JanC | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.0/qt4-accessibility.html sounds like they did implement it | 02:06 |
| JanC | the reason why it was first implemented in Gtk/GNOME, Java, OOo & Mozilla is probably that Sun paid for it... | 02:07 |
| JanC | as they needed it for some US government contracts | 02:08 |
| Pendulum | I know Sun was one of the big funders for Gnome Accessibility (until last winter, of course) | 02:12 |
| JanC | yeah :-( | 02:15 |
| JanC | stupid Oracle | 02:15 |
| JanC | maybe people should sue them for that, as that seems their favourite way of talking to others ;) | 02:16 |
| charlie-tca | Good Morning | 17:27 |
| charlie-tca | since I am not spread thin enough yet, are we doing an accessibility session for UbuntuOpenWeek ? | 17:27 |
| charlie-tca | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | 17:28 |
| Pendulum | I'd love it if we could, however, I am out of town for a doctor's appointment most of that week | 17:30 |
| Pendulum | and I know TheMuso doesn't usually do things like open week because it's middle of the night for him | 17:30 |
| charlie-tca | I could do one, what do we want to have ? | 17:31 |
| * charlie-tca keeps in mind he will also be doing a Xubuntu session, as project lead and QA | 17:32 | |
| Pendulum | hmm... good question | 17:32 |
| Pendulum | heh | 17:32 |
| Pendulum | charlie-tca: btw, would you be at all interested (if it's okay with TheMuso ) in helping nigelb run a community-based accessibility session at UDS? | 17:33 |
| charlie-tca | sure | 17:33 |
| Pendulum | I didn't get sponsorship so I can't do it, but I'd like there to be *something* | 17:33 |
| charlie-tca | I got sponsorship, so I can do it | 17:33 |
| Pendulum | (I'll be there remotely for it, but you can't lead remotely) | 17:33 |
| Pendulum | cool :) | 17:33 |
| Pendulum | then I'll set up the blueprint and submit it | 17:33 |
| charlie-tca | great! | 17:33 |
| maco | i was just saying "jee theres no a11y blueprint yet" | 19:23 |
| Pendulum | maco: yeah, between my accident and now the fact that I need to check with jcastro about if I need to specify charlie-tca and nigelb anywhere on the blueprint | 19:24 |
| maco | do we know any europeans or aussies with knowledge of their country's sign yet? | 19:27 |
| Pendulum | not that I know of | 19:28 |
| Pendulum | you should join the ubuntu-accessibility ML and ask :P | 19:28 |
| maco | id specify one of them on "assignee" btw | 19:28 |
| Pendulum | yeah | 19:29 |
| Pendulum | I just want to make sure that I don't need to assign one as the drafter, too | 19:29 |
| charlie-tca | Put me down | 20:04 |
| charlie-tca | So, for openweek, general accessibility in Ubuntu? What's available, what's we want to see; questions and answers? | 21:02 |
| charlie-tca | Accessibiltiy is Important - session on2010-10-13; 14:00 UTC; Charlie Kravetz | 21:13 |
| maco | "why does ubuntu use so much webkit while knowing its inaccessible?" | 21:14 |
| mgdm | what's up with webkit? | 21:14 |
| mgdm | (sorry - not been paying attention) | 21:14 |
| maco | doesnt work with screenreaders | 21:14 |
| mgdm | Ah | 21:14 |
| maco | but the software center and part of the installer use it | 21:15 |
| JanC | I assume they use it because mozilla makes it complicated to integrate their browser engine widget ;) | 21:53 |
| JanC | maco: I know somebody who was talking about learning dutch sign language and pointed him to your project, maybe he can help you ;) | 21:55 |
| JanC | once he starts his lessons... | 21:55 |
| vish | maco: webkit in SC? afaik , webkit is not used in the maverick version | 21:59 |
| vish | the accessibility concerns were the reason for the change.. | 22:00 |
| vish | maco: it now uses gtk | 22:00 |
| maco | oh? | 22:03 |
| maco | JanC: i had the impression using mozilla wasnt too hard up until the part where ubuntu made a policy vetoing all apps that do so | 22:03 |
| JanC | maco: AFAIK mozilla's rendering engine is a PITA if you have to access things inside it from outside it | 22:05 |
| JanC | it makes things more difficult for the programmer | 22:05 |
| JanC | it's like talking to another person who speaks another language by using a translator | 22:06 |
| JanC | (I never tried it myself, but that's what I understood from an Epiphany developer) | 22:07 |
| AlanBell | there is only XUL | 22:08 |
| AlanBell | as it says in the DTD | 22:08 |
| mgdm | hehe | 22:08 |
| mgdm | that was a work of genius | 22:08 |
| JanC | I have no problem with the mozilla/XUL platform per sé, it just doesn't integrate well with other frameworks | 22:09 |
| JanC | I mean, nobody tries to use Qt widgets inside Gtk or vice versa, right? :P | 22:10 |
| JanC | maco: what's the best thing to do for people who want to help? | 22:26 |
| maco | depends on their skills... | 22:27 |
| JanC | I'm thinking about adding support for additional sign languages | 22:27 |
| maco | oh for gally? | 22:27 |
| JanC | or testing them or such | 22:27 |
| maco | signal out | 22:28 |
| JanC | "signal out"? | 22:29 |
| maco | JanC: my network signal was about to drop due to tunnel | 23:35 |
| JanC | ah ☺ | 23:36 |
| maco | ok so anyway, about gally... i have to make kstandarddir stuff go, and thats what i'll probably be doing tomorrow when i get home from hospital (nothing serious, dont worry) and then itll be released version 0.5 and whats in mav and yay | 23:36 |
| maco | version 1.0 i want to have support for > 1 language, which, once i have kstandarddir support, shouldnt be too hard to plug in there... add a few loops and it should be good...but part of that will be adding KGetHotNewStuff support to download more tarballs of lessons | 23:37 |
| JanC | I was more thinking about how non-technical people can help ;) | 23:37 |
| maco | non-tech people can help with making lessons | 23:38 |
| maco | make a list of lessons and vocab that should be in them, for example | 23:38 |
| maco | or if slightly more technical but not a programmer, turn such lists into xml files | 23:38 |
| JanC | yeah, is there a ML for this or something? | 23:38 |
| maco | or if having a camera and ability to use openshot/pitivi/whatever make videos / photos of signs | 23:38 |
| maco | mmm nope. figured people could file bugs like "add a lesson for names of foods" | 23:39 |
| JanC | most of them probably don't know what they can do ;) | 23:40 |
| * maco checks lp intro pages | 23:40 | |
| JanC | anyway, the person I was talking about is going to start a course of sign language soon, so he doesn't know anything yet, but he was looking for a rehearsal tool | 23:41 |
| maco | https://edge.launchpad.net/gally-asl <-- does what i put there make sense for telling people things that help? | 23:42 |
| maco | havent got enough lessons for him to use it that way yet | 23:43 |
| JanC | well, IME making lessons is often more effective rehearsal than plain rehearsal ;) | 23:45 |
| JanC | might still be useful to have a ML (or forum or such) | 23:46 |
| JanC | but I'll forward what you linked to | 23:46 |
| charlie-tca | could use the accessibility mailing list? | 23:47 |
| maco | charlie-tca: nah this is for a separate project i started that happens to interst a11y | 23:48 |
| JanC | maco: does Gally support rehearsal currently, or only lessons? | 23:52 |
| maco | lessons | 23:53 |
| maco | how do you mean rehearsal? like you sign in front of a webcam? | 23:53 |
| JanC | well, two things: 1. try to understand what is shown and 2. try to sign a given expression, then see if what you did was right | 23:54 |
| JanC | not necessarily have the program tell you if you were right/wrong ;) | 23:55 |
| JanC | that would be possible too (e.g. using OpenCV) but require more work | 23:56 |
| maco | there is research going on to recognize signs people are doing from webcam, but its *hard* | 23:56 |
| maco | but yeah, quizzing is planned for 1.0 | 23:56 |
| JanC | hey, you have #gally too ;) | 23:56 |
| JanC | erkan^: is another person who might be able to help with dutch sign language | 23:58 |
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