[14:09] ttx: enjoyed you blog post today :-) [14:17] JamesPage: I needed to write that for posterity [14:18] also I don't like unsubstantiated "I hate Java" posts [14:18] JamesPage: :-) read that one to! [14:18] heh [14:31] ttx: I think that the idea of a reference platform is a good idea [14:32] so it might make sense to push development features into the platform first [14:32] JamesPage: that's basically what we do with Eucalyptus [14:33] so that it gets better development adoption [14:33] JamesPage: ask them to build on our platform [14:33] support our versions [14:33] the main issue is that our platform is really Debian's [14:33] so it changes unexpectantly [14:34] and in some cases eucalyptus can't align themselves [14:34] so we use some copied packages [14:34] (limited code duplication) [14:35] works with Eucalyptus because they wanted us as a conduit for mainstream distribution, so they accepted to comply [14:36] guess the question is how do we make it work with the rest of the open source java community [14:37] I think JPackage was a neat idea. It's just herculean work though [14:37] So supporting a wider range of build toolsets and development frameworks and tools (such as Hudson) [14:37] might drive people to the platform due to the features its provides [15:23] The issue of "changes unexpectedly" can also be addressed by closer integration with pkg-java [15:23] We don't need to be surprised, if we're coordinating tightly.