[14:09] <JamesPage> ttx: enjoyed you blog post today :-)
[14:17] <ttx> JamesPage: I needed to write that for posterity
[14:18] <ttx> also I don't like unsubstantiated "I hate Java" posts
[14:18] <JamesPage> JamesPage: :-) read that one to!
[14:18] <ttx> heh
[14:31] <JamesPage> ttx: I think that the idea of a reference platform is a good idea
[14:32] <JamesPage> so it might make sense to push development features into the platform first
[14:32] <ttx> JamesPage: that's basically what we do with Eucalyptus
[14:33] <JamesPage> so that it gets better development adoption
[14:33] <ttx> JamesPage: ask them to build on our platform
[14:33] <ttx> support our versions
[14:33] <ttx> the main issue is that our platform is really Debian's
[14:33] <ttx> so it changes unexpectantly
[14:34] <ttx> and in some cases eucalyptus can't align themselves
[14:34] <ttx> so we use some copied packages
[14:34] <ttx> (limited code duplication)
[14:35] <ttx> works with Eucalyptus because they wanted us as a conduit for mainstream distribution, so they accepted to comply
[14:36] <JamesPage> guess the question is how do we make it work with the rest of the open source java community
[14:37] <ttx> I think JPackage was a neat idea. It's just herculean work though
[14:37] <JamesPage> So supporting a wider range of build toolsets and development frameworks and tools (such as Hudson)
[14:37] <JamesPage> might  drive people to the platform due to the features its provides
[15:23] <persia> The issue of "changes unexpectedly" can also be addressed by closer integration with pkg-java
[15:23] <persia> We don't need to be surprised, if we're coordinating tightly.