[00:41] ScottK: even better? I mean I'm working on telepathic tab completion, but... [00:42] Sput: I think putting the person in the last line first on the tab complete list would reduce errors a lot. [00:42] hmmm... not sure about that, especially in larger channels with several unrelated conversations going on [00:43] Sput, How are you implementing the telepathy for that? Brain scan, or implied correct behaviour based on pattern analysis? [00:43] the former should be easier [00:43] I am also thinking about mind control, meaning that the IRC client will convince you that you *wanted* to tab the guy you tabbed [00:45] We don't have BCI working for the computer output channel yet. We do have 11-bit input kinda fuzzily: if you have a good idea how to have an HID provide the "telepathic" input based on that sort of thing, I'd really like to hear about it (and you can emulate the interface by fiddling with many-button-mice or extra keyboard keys) === Malkavian__ is now known as Malkavian === Malkavian is now known as Malkavian_ [01:10] [muon] jmthomas * 1179271 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/kded/UpdateEvent/UpdateEvent.cpp Better handling of the coexistance of security and normal updates from a string point of view [01:23] [muon] jmthomas * 1179274 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/kded/UpdateEvent/UpdateEvent.cpp *Ahem* [01:48] [libqapt] jmthomas * 1179278 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/package.cpp QChar is more efficient in this case since it's a char, not a string [02:01] [libqapt] jmthomas * 1179279 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/backend.cpp Also check to see if the dpkg status file is newer than the xapian index, so that we can catch new packages installed directly via dpkg === Guest10569 is now known as ryanakca [02:16] [muon] jmthomas * 1179280 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (ChangeLog libmuon/MuonStrings.cpp muon/FilterWidget.cpp) Add an "apt-get autoremove" filter [03:13] ScottK: bug 647261 (lunchpad is still munching on skrooge) [03:13] Launchpad bug 647261 in kmymoney (Ubuntu) "Sync kmymoney 4.5-2 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647261 [03:16] bug 647262 [03:16] Launchpad bug 647262 in skrooge (Ubuntu) "Sync skrooge 0.7.3.2-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647262 [03:19] JontheEchidna: Which one of those needed release team approval? [03:19] skrooge will need an FFe [03:19] kmymoney is a packaging fix [03:20] JontheEchidna: skrooge approved (it helps if you subscribe the release team ....) [03:20] Thanks. [03:20] No prob [04:31] ScottK: perhaps are you working on kwave? [05:07] JontheEchidna: can you upload kwave from here? https://launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi/+archive/ppa/+packages === SolidLiq is now known as solid_liq [05:36] JontheEchidna: also kmplayer from my ppa [05:36] thanks [06:12] lex79: I'm hoping to find someone to fix the docbook stuff that's causing it to FTBFS. [06:12] lex79: I'll grab it if JontheEchidna didn't already. [06:18] lex79: Uploaded. [06:18] ScottK: thanks, also kmplayer needs upload [06:18] Yep. Looking at that now. [06:18] ok [06:21] lex79: That one's uploaded too. Thanks. I'll accept them when they hit the queue too. [06:21] (since Universe isn't frozen they don't need a release team review) [06:21] good, thanks :) [06:25] lex79: Any chance you could look at ktoon on armel? [06:26] lex79: Also don't forget to include me on the sponsors you invite to comment on your motu application. [06:27] ScottK: I'll look tomorrow, I'll not forget, thanks ;) [06:27] Great. [06:57] when i try to open videos from kmail attachments in dragon, dragon crashes immediately. anyone else? [09:14] why do i have new kde 4.5.1 updates? ;D [11:35] ScottK: some of them yes... [11:42] amarok is b0rked with phonon backend -.- [11:43] shadeslayer: let's use clementine [11:43] ari-tczew: i was using that earilier... but i just use vlc backend now :P [11:44] more likely that my phonon is borked [11:44] aha [11:44] its a git compile.. [13:45] apachelogger: pingly [14:03] apachelogger: well... ive sorted the issue on how to parse args to zsync, cant actually think of a way to start a new progress dialog and kill the original widget, needz help [14:04] apachelogger: http://gitorious.org/qzsync/qzsync/commit/cfabfe8ae8479e7c0b5e870f739c469fc6b6c087 :: sorts everything [15:05] you cannot kill the widget at any rate because currently the widget embodys the process [15:05] at the point you would delete the widget the process would get deleted too [15:06] if I try to open a PPT, Writer starts, if i start Impress, and open the PPT, writer starts again, WTF? [15:06] to fix that you will need seperate implementations for frontend and backend === emma is now known as mc44 === mc44 is now known as emma [15:22] Hey [15:22] does file sharing works in maverick? === maco2 is now known as maco [15:54] shadeslayer: pingly [16:21] apachelogger: pongly [16:22] shadeslayer: what should I talk about in my Qt talk @ ubuntuwhateverweek? [16:22] oooh [16:22] apachelogger: how about qzsync? :P [16:22] how crappy it is [16:22] and how everyone should NOT code that way :P [16:22] * apachelogger was considering flaming about how Qt i truley cross-platform and cross-language and everything for half an hour and the other half bash how GTK is NOT [16:22] apachelogger: that works as well :) [16:23] though seriously, an intro to Qt, that Qt is modular, so you can create gui-less apps too, that you can deploy stuff on every flipping OS out there and basically write in every language you do not want to write in [16:23] meanwhile have the users download the Qt SDK and then fire up creator to look at some examples [16:24] maybe edit one [16:24] SDK because that way I can be sure we all use the same version [16:25] oh oh oh, I probably should also rave about how Qt is used by Skype and VLC and various consumer multimedia products [16:25] and KDE of course :P === ulysses is now known as emovaldi === emovaldi is now known as ulysses [16:27] OTOH the SDK is rather large too [16:28] * shadeslayer notes that apachelogger has a habit of talking to himself [16:28] apachelogger: qt is large :P [16:28] also [16:28] shadeslayer: Looks like kplayer in multiverse needs some docbook fixing. [16:28] you only notice now? :P [16:28] gtk is crossplatform as well... i used deluge on vista [16:28] shadeslayer: It's not large, it's comprehensive. [16:28] ScottK: looking :) [16:28] shadeslayer: GTK is not cross-platform [16:28] GTK is essentially ported [16:29] apachelogger: idk if it works on macs [16:29] but it worked on windows [16:29] Qt i designed cross-platform [16:29] ScottK: is it on udd ? [16:29] hence you can drag Qt on every platform that has a cpp std library [16:29] No idea. [16:29] its a archive rebuild failiure right? [16:30] (that is if you implement the platform dependent shit such as painting) [16:32] ScottK: also i will be cherry picking a few patches from rekonq, but not sure when they will be committed, they will fix bug 647332 [16:32] Launchpad bug 647332 in rekonq (Ubuntu) "[maverick] Rekonq crashes without network connection. " [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647332 [16:32] * apachelogger notes that rekonq patches tend to break things on other ends [16:32] shadeslayer: Yes. Archive rebuild failure. [16:32] such as that javascript patch that essentially broke cookies [16:32] apachelogger: yeah :( [16:35] Nightrose: I think I will go on tour with a Qt talk [16:35] that is actually something I can identify with [16:36] apachelogger: make me a progress bar :P [16:36] or help me make one :D [16:36] qt:/qprogressbar [16:36] apachelogger: Would you agree that kvdr would be essentially useless without sound capability? [16:36] It is still built against arts [16:36] Sput: when will make arbitary protocols work? :( [16:36] !info kvdr [16:36] And I'm thinking rather than building it --without-arts, we should just remove it. [16:36] Package kvdr does not exist in lucid [16:37] Actually it probably had it's binary removed during lucid so it's source only now. [16:37] ScottK: tag unmaintained and boot [16:38] Thanks. [16:38] if you have no sign of a KDE 4 port after whats it 2.5 years after the first platform release that is a clear sign of unmaintainedness IMHO [16:44] Agreed. Removal bug filed. [16:50] ScottK: dude.. this will be a huge patch... their docbooks are foobared [16:51] shadeslayer: Thanks for taking care of it. [16:51] :P [16:51] ill be fixing these the whole night ^_^ [16:51] just hope ebn works :) [16:56] shadeslayer: you can build krazy yourself [16:56] pretty easily too [16:56] i knows .. but i dont want to build ^_^ [16:56] * apachelogger j9s kamoso [16:56] shadeslayer: what is the failure? [16:56] you really just need some perl foo IIRC [16:56] apachelogger: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/ubuntu-nbs/32/kplayer_1:0.7-0.5ubuntu1_lubuntu32.buildlog [16:56] shadeslayer: of krazy I mean ;) [16:57] oh.. none [16:57] i just dont feel like building it :P [16:57] !search kdex.dtd [16:57] Found: [16:58] afiestas: why does kamoso have no effects? :( [17:04] ohh [17:04] * apachelogger goes flaming gnomies [17:07] * apachelogger tells shadeslayer to promote solution #7 of http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25741/ [17:07] * shadeslayer looks at solution 7 [17:07] hahaha [17:07] apachelogger: ill uo vote it but whats the point... no ones going to ever look at it :P [17:08] *up [17:08] you just watch :P [17:08] * shadeslayer really does need a new phone [17:08] for 11.04 they will acknowledge the supremacy [17:08] hehe ... they just dont have enough spaze on the you-boon-too CD [17:09] they have games on the you bun too CD [17:09] and I think even multiple wallpapers [17:09] see [17:09] yeah [17:09] everything I would like to see on our CD is what they have [17:09] so they will kick niceness and bring in loads of kdelibs? :D [17:09] apachelogger: yeah :( [17:10] i wantz the wallpapers [17:10] * apachelogger should brainstorm that Kubuntu gets distributed on good old floppys [17:10] just so we can remove more useful things of a 2010 operating system [17:10] apachelogger: that will take about a good 700 floppy disks and 1 floppy reader i guess [17:11] nixternal: Can haz powerpc? [17:11] shadeslayer: one one floppy! [17:11] why would we need more than one? [17:11] because theres never been a 700MB floppy? :D [17:12] we surely do not need 700MB [17:12] lets see [17:12] browser is pointless [17:12] so is message-indicator [17:12] and kopete [17:12] ah well, all that is network [17:12] amarok is too fat, aplay will do [17:13] packagekit is duplicated with apt-get and aptitude [17:13] k3b can go [17:13] hm, maybe we should just shift our target audience [17:13] quassel as well [17:13] just use irssi instead [17:13] irssi is fat [17:14] one would not think so, but it is [17:14] I propose we write our own client in bash [17:14] make that dash [17:14] lets drop bash altogether [17:14] :) [17:15] kdepim is fat as well... [17:15] true that [17:15] lets drop KDE [17:16] we cannot squeeze it on the CD, why would we be able to squeeze it on floppies [17:16] aye [17:16] anyhow [17:16] apachelogger's topic for UDS: "we go DVD or else..." [17:16] apachelogger: put it on kubuntu/UDSNatty [17:17] where haz that page gone :O [17:17] I think primarily it needs to go into lunchpad [17:17] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25873/ [17:17] * apachelogger is wondering if xz is threading [17:18] * apachelogger is wondering how one would thread that anyway [17:20] * apachelogger considers it way too difficult and moves on [17:20] also not very robust [17:20] apachelogger: how about delta upgrades from kubuntu ppa's ? [17:20] also [17:20] shadeslayer: for that dpkg needs to grow delta stuff [17:20] i do not see a kplayer-0.7-5 in debian [17:21] apachelogger: IIRC theres a program for thta [17:21] !info debdelta [17:21] debdelta (source: debdelta): diff and patch utilities which work with Debian packages. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.37 (lucid), package size 84 kB, installed size 360 kB [17:21] that is far from a framework [17:21] from that description it sounds like it just is a diff/patch for binary [17:22] oic .. see we haz 1:0.7-0.5ubuntu1 .... [17:23] http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man1/debdelta-upgrade.1.html [17:23] that is still not integrated enough [17:23] apachelogger: I think it would make sense for the DVD to have it's own metapackage so if you install from the DVD you get a VERY complete system. [17:24] what would be needed is that the archive pool declares that for package foo versions x and y and ... deltas are available and then apt-get (or any client) decides on user setting whether to get the delta and upgrade using that or download the package [17:24] hmm [17:24] also you could back that stuff up with additional algorithms to avoid the staticness ... i.e. if load is high never go for delta [17:24] and for generating delta's, what do we do? [17:25] if bandwith is known to always be high then go for delta, unless user deselected that or load is high [17:25] ... [17:25] shadeslayer: that needs to be in soyuz [17:25] hmm [17:25] itll never be implemented then :P [17:25] They'll take patches, but you have to do copyright assignment. [17:25] but really, before any step in that direction can or should be taken it needs to be worked out properly how to implement this on both server and client side [17:27] ScottK: own DVD metapackage && use DVD as primary distribution media && maintain CD as secondary media without *any* additional locales [17:27] apachelogger: Let's make it a workable secondary first. Then discuss what should be primary. [17:28] shadeslayer: with that attitude certainly not :P [17:28] ScottK: workable secondary is not much of an effort is it? [17:28] apachelogger: It's been discussed before, but never actually happened, so so far, however little, it's been too much. [17:29] Should be relatively easy to add a new seed and a new metapackage to kubuntu-meta. [17:29] I made a fluffy iso, it does not get much more horrible than setting up your own iso factory :P [17:29] especially with the general ubuntu dislike for documentation [17:30] Also, since ShipIt just does CDs, I don't think we should call CD secondary. [17:30] ScottK: shipit also needs to change [17:30] Right, I've no doubt you can do it. [17:30] apachelogger: You convince Canonical of that and I'll back switching to the DVD as primary. [17:30] or maybe we should just have them both as primary [17:30] I'm fine with that. [17:30] CD certainly becomes more maintainable if we take localization worries out of the picture completely and entirely [17:31] and isntead add the constraint that CD might not offer the complete user experience you get with the DVD [17:31] Right. [17:33] shadeslayer: IMHO dpkg/apt need to be rethought anyway somehow that whole package paradigm does not suit today's needs [17:34] hmm [17:34] true that [17:34] Maverick is neat :) [17:34] with uprise of devices that have no stronge CPU AND might not have no good intarwebs either [17:34] slightly unstable still [17:34] but overall it works [17:34] like previously you had a computer or a server with either good bandwith or not so good one, but that did not change [17:35] now you might be running around with your N900 and connectivity swaps around wildely [17:35] apachelogger: in KDE 4.5.1, the KDE tool for multi-monitor support does not remember settings after reboot [17:35] apachelogger: afaik it's fixed in 4.5.2, I would definitely use that patch [17:35] it's a major nuisance [17:35] so what I outlined earlier about taking load and speed into account for delta downloads does not really fix the problem properly either [17:35] apachelogger: whats up with http://extras.ubuntu.com/ [17:36] ScottK: ^ do we know anything abou that multi-monitor stuff? [17:36] shadeslayer: you always come up with domains I do not know about :P ... what is extras? [17:36] no idea.. its apparently a repo of sorts [17:36] apachelogger: I don't. [17:36] but not sure what goes into it [17:36] shadeslayer: ah, that application review board stuff foo [17:37] * apachelogger meant to blog about that too [17:37] ahh [17:37] markey: If you can point me at the change that's going into 4.5.2, I can cherry pick it. [17:37] * apachelogger needs to see his physician on monday to get something against the sleepyness [17:37] apachelogger: whaa? [17:37] (or even tell me what package to find it in) [17:37] shadeslayer: ubuntu is going to accept new apps to be sort of backported to older releases via extras [17:38] oic [17:38] I really did not get in what regard it exactly is different from backprots [17:38] but oh well [17:38] ScottK: difficult, as I only read about this in a forum. but I'll try to find it, if you give me until tomorrow or so? [17:38] oh, actually it is more limited in that it only accepts completely new apps [17:38] which makes me wonder about the point exactly [17:38] markey: Tomorrow would be about the last day. [17:38] yeah [17:38] I'll try to find it asap [17:38] there are only two places where it could be broken I think [17:38] well three [17:39] kephal [17:39] the display kcm [17:39] and krandrtray [17:39] apachelogger: It's for applications that are so critical that the user must have them now, but at the same time so crappy, we don't actually want them in Ubuntu. [17:39] I'm not sure how many that will be. [17:39] ScottK: so the tool is apparently called "KRandRTray" [17:39] because they all 3 have code copies of each other :D [17:39] it is a true beauty [17:39] markey: OK. [17:39] * markey checks websvn [17:39] sec [17:39] ScottK: surely it is related to that whole opportunistic development stuff :P [17:40] debfx is our expert krandrtray/kcm/whatever fixer. Maybe he already knows. [17:40] apachelogger: Sure. It just doesn't actually manage to accomplish much. [17:40] unlike quickly [17:41] I have seen loads of great apps created with quickly already [17:41] photobomb and ehm. eh.. eh.... [17:41] well [17:41] :P [17:41] ScottK: do you happen to have a kde svn checkout at hand? [17:41] ScottK: I have no idea in which module the tool is located [17:41] a "find" would do it [17:41] markey: No, but I have kdesvn open pointing at KDE svn. [17:42] Those are in -workspace. [17:42] I'll have a look. [17:42] ok [17:42] http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/4.5/kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/randr/ [17:42] no changes since branching [17:43] ok, let me point you to this forum page about it [17:43] BINGO [17:43] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163707 [17:43] nothing changed in kephal either [17:43] ScottK: ^ [17:43] KDE bug 163707 in general "kde4 does not restore screen resolution at login" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [17:44] that is a long-standing issue [17:44] * apachelogger is not sure we should add it at this point [17:44] not exactly regression free [17:44] here's the forum discussion: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=20494&start=15 [17:44] bcoocksley seems to know the details [17:46] markey: that is targetted at trunk [17:46] well [17:46] the fix is [17:46] hm [17:46] markey: if you have krandrtray in autostart do the settings get applied? [17:46] ScottK: do we need kplayer-data and kplayer-docs package? or do i follow debian and lose those packages? [17:46] shadeslayer: Follow Debian. [17:47] that's the thing I didn't understand: the tool is in my panel (at least I think that is the tool), so it gets autostarted [17:47] or am I misunderstanding something? [17:47] good.. because in the last merge we kept that change for some reason [17:47] apachelogger: They do. We did that for one release, but then it's always in the tray. [17:47] not sure how this tool in the tray is called [17:47] markey: the monitory icon? [17:47] yes [17:47] ScottK: i guess add a Replaces and Conflicts ? [17:47] that is krandrtray [17:47] and if that is started it is supposed to apply the settings [17:47] shadeslayer: Replaces and Breaks. [17:47] but having it in the tray doesn't help [17:47] if that is not the case than that is a different bug [17:48] hmm never used breaks [17:48] shadeslayer: It's in the newest version of Debian Policy. [17:48] * apachelogger thinks debfx should look at krandrtray ^^ [17:48] yep :) [17:48] debfx: our savior! [17:48] ScottK: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-breaks [17:48] reading that [17:48] Yep [17:49] ahhh [17:49] * apachelogger only has a multi-monitor setup in graz, and currently is like 200km away :P [17:49] apachelogger: your not in graz [17:49] ?? [17:49] * apachelogger is in upper austria right now [17:49] winter semester only starts next week [17:50] also... open suse conference on 20-23rd October ... [17:50] * apachelogger did not get invited [17:50] * apachelogger never gets invited anywhere [17:50] markey: AFAICT that's only in trunk and wasn't backported to the 4.5 branch (with good reason). [17:50] apachelogger: contact sabdfl :P [17:50] oh, I was invited to a party yesterday ... but I couldnt attend ^^ [17:50] apachelogger: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/529 [17:51] shadeslayer: sabdfl said sponsor someone from the community council :P [17:51] * apachelogger is not on that council [17:51] these council elitists .... [17:51] oh hold on, I am on a council too ;) [17:51] apachelogger: join said council > apply for said sponsorship [17:51] bahahaha [17:52] kplayer from debian is broken too [17:52] hmmmmmmm [17:52] JontheEchidna: you know, I never ever saw jockey pop up in new installs [17:52] for like 3 releases or so [17:52] markey: You can work around problems by adding a command line xrandr call to /etc/kde4/kdm/Xsetup. [17:53] even if there was stuff to be done [17:53] ScottK: that is not good ... [17:53] use .kde/env/ instead [17:53] drop a simple shell script there [17:53] Works though. [17:53] presumably that is also what the aformentioned bug report does too [17:54] ScottK: only until kdm gets an upgrade though, no? [17:54] then diffing will be needed [17:54] so I would preferr the KDE env solution [17:54] apachelogger: No. Then if that gets changed (almost never happens) you'll get asked to resolve the conflict. [17:54] ScottK: see, that is inconvenient :P [17:54] Only if that file changes on the upgrade which is reasonably unlikely. [17:55] ScottK: I heard about the workaround, but think about average users [17:55] so while it works I still would not ever do it [17:55] ScottK: it's not exactly elegant [17:55] markey: Right, but that's a most than slightly invasive change. [17:55] many users have multiple monitors now [17:55] hm, true [17:56] ScottK, markey: given the magnitude of the issue maybe we should consider a stable release update? [17:56] Part of the problem with messing with video stuff is there are so many possible configurations it's hard to test enough to avoid regressions for someone. [17:56] * markey mumbles about KDE's horrible quantity over quality issues [17:56] it kills me [17:56] apachelogger: It's a feature change, not a bug fix, it wouldn't qualify. [17:56] ScottK: no, it is a bug fix [17:56] well, major bug though [17:56] yeah [17:56] the bug being that the settings are not being restored [17:56] clearly a bug fix [17:56] OK. [17:56] Maybe then. [17:56] no way it was supposed to work like that [17:57] OK. Long standing bug then. [17:57] ScottK: what we probably should do for SRU is streamline changes out of what lubos did in KDE trunk [17:57] Riddell tends to be more sporting about these sorts of things than I am. [17:57] Maybe he'll want to go for it. If so, I'm OK with it. [17:57] from the commit message it sounds like some architectural stuff was done [17:57] but the general principal of the fix should be SRUable [17:58] OK. [17:58] apachelogger: I haven't looked into the issue in depth, but isn't it like this try tool just needs a little pat on the shoulder? [17:58] actually if we can get it to an SRUable dimension I would also opt for targetting 10.04 [17:58] apparently it works as soon as you right-click it once [17:58] (I haven't tested this yet) [17:58] markey: that too [17:58] ScottK: in lucid the resolution is restored when krandrtray is autostarted [17:58] I'm also not on ubuntu-sru, so my opinions are just that. [17:58] markey: but the tray tool is not autostarted [17:58] sounds like a really stupid bug then [17:58] so the tray tool at best is a work around [17:58] apachelogger: here it is [17:58] a blood ugly one if you ask me [17:59] I mean, it apppears in the tray after restart [17:59] debfx: Thanks. [17:59] also I think the krandrtray not working might be coming from dbusmenu/kstatusnotifieritem [17:59] So if that doesn't work in Maverick, it's a regression and definite SRU material (the krandrtray autostart thing, not the kcm rewrite). [17:59] aye [17:59] markey: yeah, session restoring, but not unless the user once manually started it [17:59] apachelogger: so I should try to make it autostart, and then it should work? [17:59] I'll try that [17:59] ScottK: the KCM was not rewritten, the autostarting code was made workign again ;) [18:00] that'd be an easy fix [18:00] markey: oh, that could be it [18:00] kapps can check for restore cant that? :) [18:00] In any case, if you can identify a regression, that's clear SRU material. [18:00]