[00:41] <Sput> ScottK: even better? I mean I'm working on telepathic tab completion, but...
[00:42] <ScottK> Sput: I think putting the person in the last line first on the tab complete list would reduce errors a lot.
[00:42] <Sput> hmmm... not sure about that, especially in larger channels with several unrelated conversations going on
[00:43] <persia> Sput, How are you implementing the telepathy for that?  Brain scan, or implied correct behaviour based on pattern analysis?
[00:43] <Sput> the former should be easier
[00:43] <Sput> I am also thinking about mind control, meaning that the IRC client will convince you that you *wanted* to tab the guy you tabbed
[00:45] <persia> We don't have BCI working for the computer output channel yet.  We do have 11-bit input kinda fuzzily: if you have a good idea how to have an HID provide the "telepathic" input based on that sort of thing, I'd really like to hear about it (and you can emulate the interface by fiddling with many-button-mice or extra keyboard keys)
[01:10] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1179271 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/kded/UpdateEvent/UpdateEvent.cpp Better handling of the coexistance of security and normal updates from a string point of view
[01:23] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1179274 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/kded/UpdateEvent/UpdateEvent.cpp *Ahem*
[01:48] <CIA-116> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1179278 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/package.cpp QChar is more efficient in this case since it's a char, not a string
[02:01] <CIA-116> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1179279 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/backend.cpp Also check to see if the dpkg status file is newer than the xapian index, so that we can catch new packages installed directly via dpkg
[02:16] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1179280 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (ChangeLog libmuon/MuonStrings.cpp muon/FilterWidget.cpp) Add an "apt-get autoremove" filter
[03:13] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: bug 647261 (lunchpad is still munching on skrooge)
[03:16] <JontheEchidna> bug 647262
[03:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Which one of those needed release team approval?
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> skrooge will need an FFe
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> kmymoney is a packaging fix
[03:20] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: skrooge approved (it helps if you subscribe the release team ....)
[03:20] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:20] <JontheEchidna> No prob
[04:31] <lex79> ScottK: perhaps are you working on kwave?
[05:07] <lex79> JontheEchidna: can you upload kwave from here? https://launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi/+archive/ppa/+packages
[05:36] <lex79> JontheEchidna: also kmplayer from my ppa
[05:36] <lex79> thanks
[06:12] <ScottK> lex79: I'm hoping to find someone to fix the docbook stuff that's causing it to FTBFS.
[06:12] <ScottK> lex79: I'll grab it if JontheEchidna didn't already.
[06:18] <ScottK> lex79: Uploaded.
[06:18] <lex79> ScottK: thanks, also kmplayer needs upload
[06:18] <ScottK> Yep.  Looking at that now.
[06:18] <lex79> ok
[06:21] <ScottK> lex79: That one's uploaded too.  Thanks.  I'll accept them when they hit the queue too.
[06:21] <ScottK> (since Universe isn't frozen they don't need a release team review)
[06:21] <lex79> good, thanks :)
[06:25] <ScottK> lex79: Any chance you could look at ktoon on armel?
[06:26] <ScottK> lex79: Also don't forget to include me on the sponsors you invite to comment on your motu application.
[06:27] <lex79> ScottK: I'll look tomorrow, I'll not forget, thanks ;)
[06:27] <ScottK> Great.
[06:57] <maco> when i try to open videos from kmail attachments in dragon, dragon crashes immediately. anyone else?
[09:14] <sheytan> why do i have new kde 4.5.1  updates? ;D
[11:35] <shadeslayer> ScottK: some of them yes...
[11:42] <shadeslayer> amarok is b0rked with phonon backend -.-
[11:43] <ari-tczew> shadeslayer: let's use clementine
[11:43] <shadeslayer> ari-tczew: i was using that earilier... but i just use vlc backend now :P
[11:44] <shadeslayer> more likely that my phonon is borked
[11:44] <ari-tczew> aha
[11:44] <shadeslayer> its a git compile..
[13:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: pingly
[14:03] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: well... ive sorted the issue on how to parse args to zsync, cant actually think of a way to start a new progress dialog and kill the original widget, needz help
[14:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://gitorious.org/qzsync/qzsync/commit/cfabfe8ae8479e7c0b5e870f739c469fc6b6c087 :: sorts everything
[15:05] <apachelogger> you cannot kill the widget at any rate because currently the widget embodys the process
[15:05] <apachelogger> at the point you would delete the widget the process would get deleted too
[15:06] <ulysses> if I try to open a PPT, Writer starts, if i start Impress, and open the PPT, writer starts again, WTF?
[15:06] <apachelogger> to fix that you will need seperate implementations for frontend and backend
[15:22] <sheytan> Hey
[15:22] <sheytan> does file sharing works in maverick?
[15:54] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: pingly 
[16:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: pongly
[16:22] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what should I talk about in my Qt talk @ ubuntuwhateverweek?
[16:22] <shadeslayer> oooh
[16:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: how about qzsync? :P
[16:22] <shadeslayer> how crappy it is
[16:22] <shadeslayer> and how everyone should NOT code that way :P
[16:22]  * apachelogger was considering flaming about how Qt i truley cross-platform and cross-language and everything for half an hour and the other half bash how GTK is NOT
[16:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: that works as well :)
[16:23] <apachelogger> though seriously, an intro to Qt, that Qt is modular, so you can create gui-less apps too, that you can deploy stuff on every flipping OS out there and basically write in every language you do not want to write in
[16:23] <apachelogger> meanwhile have the users download the Qt SDK and then fire up creator to look at some examples
[16:24] <apachelogger> maybe edit one
[16:24] <apachelogger> SDK because that way I can be sure we all use the same version
[16:25] <apachelogger> oh oh oh, I probably should also rave about how Qt is used by Skype and VLC and various consumer multimedia products
[16:25] <apachelogger> and KDE of course :P
[16:27] <apachelogger> OTOH the SDK is rather large too
[16:28]  * shadeslayer notes that apachelogger has a habit of talking to himself
[16:28] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: qt is large :P
[16:28] <shadeslayer> also
[16:28] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Looks like kplayer in multiverse needs some docbook fixing.
[16:28] <apachelogger> you only notice now? :P
[16:28] <shadeslayer> gtk is crossplatform as well... i used deluge on vista
[16:28] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It's not large, it's comprehensive.
[16:28] <shadeslayer> ScottK: looking :)
[16:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: GTK is not cross-platform
[16:28] <apachelogger> GTK is essentially ported
[16:29] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: idk if it works on macs
[16:29] <shadeslayer> but it worked on windows
[16:29] <apachelogger> Qt i designed cross-platform
[16:29] <shadeslayer> ScottK: is it on udd ?
[16:29] <apachelogger> hence you can drag Qt on every platform that has a cpp std library
[16:29] <ScottK> No idea.
[16:29] <shadeslayer> its a archive rebuild failiure right?
[16:30] <apachelogger> (that is if you implement the platform dependent shit such as painting)
[16:32] <shadeslayer> ScottK: also i will be cherry picking a few patches from rekonq, but not sure when they will be committed, they will fix bug 647332
[16:32]  * apachelogger notes that rekonq patches tend to break things on other ends
[16:32] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Yes.  Archive rebuild failure.
[16:32] <apachelogger> such as that javascript patch that essentially broke cookies
[16:32] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah :(
[16:35] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I think I will go on tour with a Qt talk
[16:35] <apachelogger> that is actually something I can identify with
[16:36] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: make me a progress bar :P
[16:36] <shadeslayer> or help me make one :D
[16:36] <apachelogger> qt:/qprogressbar
[16:36] <ScottK> apachelogger: Would you agree that kvdr would be essentially useless without sound capability?
[16:36] <ScottK> It is still built against arts
[16:36] <apachelogger> Sput: when will make arbitary protocols work? :(
[16:36] <apachelogger> !info kvdr
[16:36] <ScottK> And I'm thinking rather than building it --without-arts, we should just remove it.
[16:37] <ScottK> Actually it probably had it's binary removed during lucid so it's source only now.
[16:37] <apachelogger> ScottK: tag unmaintained and boot
[16:38] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:38] <apachelogger> if you have no sign of a KDE 4 port after whats it 2.5 years after the first platform release that is a clear sign of unmaintainedness IMHO
[16:44] <ScottK> Agreed.  Removal bug filed.
[16:50] <shadeslayer> ScottK: dude.. this will be a huge patch... their docbooks are foobared
[16:51] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Thanks for taking care of it.
[16:51] <shadeslayer> :P
[16:51] <shadeslayer> ill be fixing these the whole night ^_^
[16:51] <shadeslayer> just hope ebn works :)
[16:56] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you can build krazy yourself
[16:56] <apachelogger> pretty easily too
[16:56] <shadeslayer> i knows .. but i dont want to build ^_^
[16:56]  * apachelogger j9s kamoso
[16:56] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what is the failure?
[16:56] <apachelogger> you really just need some perl foo IIRC
[16:56] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/ubuntu-nbs/32/kplayer_1:0.7-0.5ubuntu1_lubuntu32.buildlog
[16:56] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: of krazy I mean ;)
[16:57] <shadeslayer> oh.. none
[16:57] <shadeslayer> i just dont feel like building it :P
[16:57] <shadeslayer> !search kdex.dtd
[16:58] <apachelogger> afiestas: why does kamoso have no effects? :(
[17:04] <apachelogger> ohh
[17:04]  * apachelogger goes flaming gnomies
[17:07]  * apachelogger tells shadeslayer to promote solution #7 of http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25741/
[17:07]  * shadeslayer looks at solution 7
[17:07] <shadeslayer> hahaha
[17:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ill uo vote it but whats the point... no ones going to ever look at it :P
[17:08] <shadeslayer> *up
[17:08] <apachelogger> you just watch :P
[17:08]  * shadeslayer really does need a new phone
[17:08] <apachelogger> for 11.04 they will acknowledge the supremacy
[17:08] <shadeslayer> hehe ... they just dont have enough spaze on the you-boon-too CD
[17:09] <apachelogger> they have games on the you bun too CD
[17:09] <apachelogger> and I think even multiple wallpapers
[17:09] <apachelogger> see
[17:09] <shadeslayer> yeah
[17:09] <apachelogger> everything I would like to see on our CD is what they have
[17:09] <shadeslayer> so they will kick niceness and bring in loads of kdelibs? :D
[17:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah :(
[17:10] <shadeslayer> i wantz the wallpapers 
[17:10]  * apachelogger should brainstorm that Kubuntu gets distributed on good old floppys
[17:10] <apachelogger> just so we can remove more useful things of a 2010 operating system
[17:10] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: that will take about a good 700 floppy disks and 1 floppy reader i guess
[17:11] <ScottK> nixternal: Can haz powerpc?
[17:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: one one floppy!
[17:11] <apachelogger> why would we need more than one?
[17:11] <shadeslayer> because theres never been a 700MB floppy? :D
[17:12] <apachelogger> we surely do not need 700MB
[17:12] <apachelogger> lets see
[17:12] <apachelogger> browser is pointless
[17:12] <apachelogger> so is message-indicator
[17:12] <apachelogger> and kopete
[17:12] <apachelogger> ah well, all that is network
[17:12] <apachelogger> amarok is too fat, aplay will do
[17:13] <apachelogger> packagekit is duplicated with apt-get and aptitude
[17:13] <apachelogger> k3b can go
[17:13] <apachelogger> hm, maybe we should just shift our target audience
[17:13] <shadeslayer> quassel as well
[17:13] <shadeslayer> just use irssi instead
[17:13] <apachelogger> irssi is fat
[17:14] <apachelogger> one would not think so, but it is
[17:14] <apachelogger> I propose we write our own client in bash
[17:14] <apachelogger> make that dash
[17:14] <apachelogger> lets drop bash altogether
[17:14] <shadeslayer> :) 
[17:15] <shadeslayer> kdepim is fat as well...
[17:15] <apachelogger> true that
[17:15] <apachelogger> lets drop KDE
[17:16] <apachelogger> we cannot squeeze it on the CD, why would we be able to squeeze it on floppies
[17:16] <shadeslayer> aye
[17:16] <apachelogger> anyhow
[17:16] <apachelogger> apachelogger's topic for UDS: "we go DVD or else..."
[17:16] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: put it on kubuntu/UDSNatty
[17:17] <shadeslayer> where haz that page gone :O
[17:17] <apachelogger> I think primarily it needs to go into lunchpad
[17:17] <apachelogger> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25873/
[17:17]  * apachelogger is wondering if xz is threading
[17:18]  * apachelogger is wondering how one would thread that anyway
[17:20]  * apachelogger considers it way too difficult and moves on
[17:20] <apachelogger> also not very robust
[17:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: how about delta upgrades from kubuntu ppa's ? 
[17:20] <shadeslayer> also
[17:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: for that dpkg needs to grow delta stuff
[17:20] <shadeslayer> i do not see a kplayer-0.7-5 in debian
[17:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: IIRC theres a program for thta
[17:21] <shadeslayer> !info debdelta
[17:21] <apachelogger> that is far from a framework
[17:21] <apachelogger> from that description it sounds like it just is a diff/patch for binary
[17:22] <shadeslayer> oic .. see we haz 1:0.7-0.5ubuntu1 ....
[17:23] <apachelogger> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man1/debdelta-upgrade.1.html
[17:23] <apachelogger> that is still not integrated enough
[17:23] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think it would make sense for the DVD to have it's own metapackage so if you install from the DVD you get a VERY complete system.
[17:24] <apachelogger> what would be needed is that the archive pool declares that for package foo versions x and y and ... deltas are available and then apt-get (or any client) decides on user setting whether to get the delta and upgrade using that or download the package
[17:24] <shadeslayer> hmm
[17:24] <apachelogger> also you could back that stuff up with additional algorithms to avoid the staticness ... i.e. if load is high never go for delta
[17:24] <shadeslayer> and for generating delta's, what do we do?
[17:25] <apachelogger> if bandwith is known to always be high then go for delta, unless user deselected that or load is high
[17:25] <apachelogger> ...
[17:25] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: that needs to be in soyuz
[17:25] <shadeslayer> hmm
[17:25] <shadeslayer> itll never be implemented then :P
[17:25] <ScottK> They'll take patches, but you have to do copyright assignment.
[17:25] <apachelogger> but really, before any step in that direction can or should be taken it needs to be worked out properly how to implement this on both server and client side
[17:27] <apachelogger> ScottK: own DVD metapackage && use DVD as primary distribution media && maintain CD as secondary media without *any* additional locales
[17:27] <ScottK> apachelogger: Let's make it a workable secondary first.  Then discuss what should be primary.
[17:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: with that attitude certainly not :P
[17:28] <apachelogger> ScottK: workable secondary is not much of an effort is it?
[17:28] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's been discussed before, but never actually happened, so so far, however little, it's been too much.
[17:29] <ScottK> Should be relatively easy to add a new seed and a new metapackage to kubuntu-meta.
[17:29] <apachelogger> I made a fluffy iso, it does not get much more horrible than setting up your own iso factory :P
[17:29] <apachelogger> especially with the general ubuntu dislike for documentation
[17:30] <ScottK> Also, since ShipIt just does CDs, I don't think we should call CD secondary.
[17:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: shipit also needs to change
[17:30] <ScottK> Right, I've no doubt you can do it.
[17:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: You convince Canonical of that and I'll back switching to the DVD as primary.
[17:30] <apachelogger> or maybe we should just have them both as primary
[17:30] <ScottK> I'm fine with that.
[17:30] <apachelogger> CD certainly becomes more maintainable if we take localization worries out of the picture completely and entirely
[17:31] <apachelogger> and isntead add the constraint that CD might not offer the complete user experience you get with the DVD
[17:31] <ScottK> Right.
[17:33] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: IMHO dpkg/apt need to be rethought anyway somehow that whole package paradigm does not suit today's needs
[17:34] <shadeslayer> hmm
[17:34] <shadeslayer> true that
[17:34] <markey> Maverick is neat :)
[17:34] <apachelogger> with uprise of devices that have no stronge CPU AND might not have no good intarwebs either
[17:34] <markey> slightly unstable still
[17:34] <markey> but overall it works
[17:34] <apachelogger> like previously you had a computer or a server with either good bandwith or not so good one, but that did not change
[17:35] <apachelogger> now you might be running around with your N900 and connectivity swaps around wildely
[17:35] <markey> apachelogger: in KDE 4.5.1, the KDE tool for multi-monitor support does not remember settings after reboot
[17:35] <markey> apachelogger: afaik it's fixed in 4.5.2, I would definitely use that patch
[17:35] <markey> it's a major nuisance
[17:35] <apachelogger> so what I outlined earlier about taking load and speed into account for delta downloads does not really fix the problem properly either
[17:35] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: whats up with http://extras.ubuntu.com/
[17:36] <apachelogger> ScottK: ^ do we know anything abou that multi-monitor stuff?
[17:36] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you always come up with domains I do not know about :P ... what is extras?
[17:36] <shadeslayer> no idea.. its apparently a repo of sorts
[17:36] <ScottK> apachelogger: I don't.
[17:36] <shadeslayer> but not sure what goes into it
[17:36] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ah, that application review board stuff foo
[17:37]  * apachelogger meant to blog about that too
[17:37] <apachelogger> ahh
[17:37] <ScottK> markey: If you can point me at the change that's going into 4.5.2, I can cherry pick it.
[17:37]  * apachelogger needs to see his physician on monday to get something against the sleepyness
[17:37] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: whaa?
[17:37] <ScottK> (or even tell me what package to find it in)
[17:37] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ubuntu is going to accept new apps to be sort of backported to older releases via extras
[17:38] <shadeslayer> oic
[17:38] <apachelogger> I really did not get in what regard it exactly is different from backprots
[17:38] <apachelogger> but oh well
[17:38] <markey> ScottK: difficult, as I only read about this in a forum. but I'll try to find it, if you give me until tomorrow or so?
[17:38] <apachelogger> oh, actually it is more limited in that it only accepts completely new apps
[17:38] <apachelogger> which makes me wonder about the point exactly
[17:38] <ScottK> markey: Tomorrow would be about the last day.
[17:38] <markey> yeah
[17:38] <markey> I'll try to find it asap
[17:38] <apachelogger> there are only two places where it could be broken I think
[17:38] <apachelogger> well three
[17:39] <apachelogger> kephal
[17:39] <apachelogger> the display kcm
[17:39] <apachelogger> and krandrtray
[17:39] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's for applications that are so critical that the user must have them now, but at the same time so crappy, we don't actually want them in Ubuntu.
[17:39] <ScottK> I'm not sure how many that will be.
[17:39] <markey> ScottK: so the tool is apparently called "KRandRTray"
[17:39] <apachelogger> because they all 3 have code copies of each other :D
[17:39] <apachelogger> it is a true beauty
[17:39] <ScottK> markey: OK. 
[17:39]  * markey checks websvn
[17:39] <markey> sec
[17:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: surely it is related to that whole opportunistic development stuff :P
[17:40] <ScottK> debfx is our expert krandrtray/kcm/whatever fixer.  Maybe he already knows.
[17:40] <ScottK> apachelogger: Sure.  It just doesn't actually manage to accomplish much.
[17:40] <apachelogger> unlike quickly
[17:41] <apachelogger> I have seen loads of great apps created with quickly already
[17:41] <apachelogger> photobomb and ehm. eh.. eh....
[17:41] <apachelogger> well
[17:41] <apachelogger> :P
[17:41] <markey> ScottK: do you happen to have a kde svn checkout at hand?
[17:41] <markey> ScottK: I have no idea in which module the tool is located
[17:41] <markey> a "find" would do it
[17:41] <ScottK> markey: No, but I have kdesvn open pointing at KDE svn.
[17:42] <ScottK> Those are in -workspace.
[17:42] <ScottK> I'll have a look.
[17:42] <markey> ok
[17:42] <apachelogger> http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/4.5/kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/randr/
[17:42] <apachelogger> no changes since branching
[17:43] <markey> ok, let me point you to this forum page about it
[17:43] <markey> BINGO
[17:43] <markey> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163707
[17:43] <apachelogger> nothing changed in kephal either
[17:43] <markey> ScottK: ^
[17:44] <apachelogger> that is a long-standing issue
[17:44]  * apachelogger is not sure we should add it at this point
[17:44] <apachelogger> not exactly regression free
[17:44] <markey> here's the forum discussion: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=20494&start=15
[17:44] <markey> bcoocksley seems to know the details
[17:46] <apachelogger> markey: that is targetted at trunk
[17:46] <apachelogger> well
[17:46] <apachelogger> the fix is
[17:46] <markey> hm
[17:46] <apachelogger> markey: if you have krandrtray in autostart do the settings get applied?
[17:46] <shadeslayer> ScottK: do we need kplayer-data and kplayer-docs package? or do i follow debian and lose those packages?
[17:46] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Follow Debian.
[17:47] <markey> that's the thing I didn't understand: the tool is in my panel (at least I think that is the tool), so it gets autostarted
[17:47] <markey> or am I misunderstanding something?
[17:47] <shadeslayer> good.. because in the last merge we kept that change for some reason
[17:47] <ScottK> apachelogger: They do.  We did that for one release, but then it's always in the tray.
[17:47] <markey> not sure how this tool in the tray is called
[17:47] <apachelogger> markey: the monitory icon?
[17:47] <markey> yes
[17:47] <shadeslayer> ScottK: i guess add a Replaces and Conflicts ?
[17:47] <apachelogger> that is krandrtray
[17:47] <apachelogger> and if that is started it is supposed to apply the settings
[17:47] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Replaces and Breaks.
[17:47] <markey> but having it in the tray doesn't help
[17:47] <apachelogger> if that is not the case than that is a different bug
[17:48] <shadeslayer> hmm never used breaks
[17:48] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It's in the newest version of Debian Policy.
[17:48]  * apachelogger thinks debfx should look at krandrtray ^^
[17:48] <markey> yep :)
[17:48] <markey> debfx: our savior!
[17:48] <shadeslayer> ScottK: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-breaks
[17:48] <shadeslayer> reading that
[17:48] <ScottK> Yep
[17:49] <shadeslayer> ahhh
[17:49]  * apachelogger only has a multi-monitor setup in graz, and currently is like 200km away :P
[17:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: your not in graz
[17:49] <shadeslayer> ??
[17:49]  * apachelogger is in upper austria right now
[17:49] <apachelogger> winter semester only starts next week
[17:50] <shadeslayer> also... open suse conference on 20-23rd October ... 
[17:50]  * apachelogger did not get invited
[17:50]  * apachelogger never gets invited anywhere
[17:50] <ScottK> markey: AFAICT that's only in trunk and wasn't backported to the 4.5 branch (with good reason).
[17:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: contact sabdfl :P
[17:50] <apachelogger> oh, I was invited to a party yesterday ... but I couldnt attend ^^
[17:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/529
[17:51] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: sabdfl said sponsor someone from the community council :P
[17:51]  * apachelogger is not on that council
[17:51] <apachelogger> these council elitists ....
[17:51] <apachelogger> oh hold on, I am on a council too ;)
[17:51] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: join said council > apply for said sponsorship
[17:51] <shadeslayer> bahahaha
[17:52] <shadeslayer> kplayer from debian is broken too
[17:52] <apachelogger> hmmmmmmm
[17:52] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you know, I never ever saw jockey pop up in new installs
[17:52] <apachelogger> for like 3 releases or so
[17:52] <ScottK> markey: You can work around problems by adding a command line xrandr call to /etc/kde4/kdm/Xsetup.
[17:53] <apachelogger> even if there was stuff to be done
[17:53] <apachelogger> ScottK: that is not good ...
[17:53] <apachelogger> use .kde/env/ instead
[17:53] <apachelogger> drop a simple shell script there
[17:53] <ScottK> Works though.
[17:53] <apachelogger> presumably that is also what the aformentioned bug report does too
[17:54] <apachelogger> ScottK: only until kdm gets an upgrade though, no?
[17:54] <apachelogger> then diffing will be needed
[17:54] <apachelogger> so I would preferr the KDE env solution
[17:54] <ScottK> apachelogger: No.  Then if that gets changed (almost never happens) you'll get asked to resolve the conflict.
[17:54] <apachelogger> ScottK: see, that is inconvenient :P
[17:54] <ScottK> Only if that file changes on the upgrade which is reasonably unlikely.
[17:55] <markey> ScottK: I heard about the workaround, but think about average users
[17:55] <apachelogger> so while it works I still would not ever do it
[17:55] <markey> ScottK: it's not exactly elegant
[17:55] <ScottK> markey: Right, but that's a most than slightly invasive change.
[17:55] <markey> many users have multiple monitors now
[17:55] <apachelogger> hm, true
[17:56] <apachelogger> ScottK, markey: given the magnitude of the issue maybe we should consider a stable release update?
[17:56] <ScottK> Part of the problem with messing with video stuff is there are so many possible configurations it's hard to test enough to avoid regressions for someone.
[17:56]  * markey mumbles about KDE's horrible quantity over quality issues
[17:56] <markey> it kills me
[17:56] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's a feature change, not a bug fix, it wouldn't qualify.
[17:56] <apachelogger> ScottK: no, it is a bug fix
[17:56] <markey> well, major bug though
[17:56] <markey> yeah
[17:56] <apachelogger> the bug being that the settings are not being restored
[17:56] <markey> clearly a bug fix
[17:56] <ScottK> OK.
[17:56] <ScottK> Maybe then.
[17:56] <markey> no way it was supposed to work like that
[17:57] <ScottK> OK.  Long standing bug then.
[17:57] <apachelogger> ScottK: what we probably should do for SRU is streamline changes out of what lubos did in KDE trunk
[17:57] <ScottK> Riddell tends to be more sporting about these sorts of things than I am.
[17:57] <ScottK> Maybe he'll want to go for it.  If so, I'm OK with it.
[17:57] <apachelogger> from the commit message it sounds like some architectural stuff was done
[17:57] <apachelogger> but the general principal of the fix should be SRUable
[17:58] <ScottK> OK.
[17:58] <markey> apachelogger: I haven't looked into the issue in depth, but isn't it like this try tool just needs a little pat on the shoulder?
[17:58] <apachelogger> actually if we can get it to an SRUable dimension I would also opt for targetting 10.04
[17:58] <markey> apparently it works as soon as you right-click it once
[17:58] <markey> (I haven't tested this yet)
[17:58] <apachelogger> markey: that too
[17:58] <debfx> ScottK: in lucid the resolution is restored when krandrtray is autostarted
[17:58] <ScottK> I'm also not on ubuntu-sru, so my opinions are just that.
[17:58] <apachelogger> markey: but the tray tool is not autostarted
[17:58] <markey> sounds like a really stupid bug then
[17:58] <apachelogger> so the tray tool at best is a work around
[17:58] <markey> apachelogger: here it is
[17:58] <apachelogger> a blood ugly one if you ask me
[17:59] <markey> I mean, it apppears in the tray after restart
[17:59] <ScottK> debfx: Thanks.
[17:59] <apachelogger> also I think the krandrtray not working might be coming from dbusmenu/kstatusnotifieritem
[17:59] <ScottK> So if that doesn't work in Maverick, it's a regression and definite SRU material (the krandrtray autostart thing, not the kcm rewrite).
[17:59] <markey> aye
[17:59] <apachelogger> markey: yeah, session restoring, but not unless the user once manually started it
[17:59] <markey> apachelogger: so I should try to make it autostart, and then it should work?
[17:59] <markey> I'll try that
[17:59] <apachelogger> ScottK: the KCM was not rewritten, the autostarting code was made workign again ;)
[18:00] <markey> that'd be an easy fix
[18:00] <apachelogger> markey: oh, that could be it
[18:00] <apachelogger> kapps can check for restore cant that? :)
[18:00] <ScottK> In any case, if you can identify a regression, that's clear SRU material.
[18:00] <apachelogger> *nod*
[18:00] <markey> speaking of System Settings, from KDE 4.4 to KDE 4.5 it got a whole *worse*
[18:01] <markey> I have trouble finding anything
[18:01] <markey> who in the world would have done this to the nice GUI?
[18:01] <markey> I hope Seele did not approve of this
[18:01] <markey> can't imagine she did
[18:02] <apachelogger> markey: bcoocksley I suppose, as he is maintainer of systemsettings
[18:02] <markey> ouch
[18:02]  * apachelogger also does not think it is an improvement, having it used for quite some time I do not think it did get worse though
[18:02] <markey> always a good idea to talk to KDE-Usability first...
[18:02] <markey> brb
[18:02] <apachelogger> IMHO the usage paradigm there is flawed altogether
[18:02] <apachelogger> also from a design POV
[18:02] <markey> ack
[18:06]  * ScottK gets a headache moving back and forth between KDE 4.4 and 4.5 machines.
[18:07] <ScottK> (and using systemsettings)
[18:12] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ive figured out the issue
[18:12] <shadeslayer> wont be long before i haz merge for you :D
[18:14] <ScottK> OK.  I'll probably be gone by then, but I'll be back later.
[18:14] <shadeslayer> ok ill put it in my PPA then
[18:16] <KRF> yep, system settings got worse between the last few releases
[18:16] <KRF> the filter widget is useless since you still have to find the matching entry and click it
[18:17] <KRF> totally useless
[18:28] <shadeslayer> ScottK: still there? can you look if i did this right? http://paste.ubuntu.com/500454/
[18:28] <shadeslayer> ( the breaks and replaces field )
[18:31] <shadeslayer> hmm.. i think i can drop the | mplayer-nogui stuff as well
[18:31] <ScottK> shadeslayer: They don't need to be versioned since the packages were dropped, but other than that, it's good.
[18:31] <shadeslayer> ok
[18:34] <markey> apachelogger: bad news, that Autostart trick doesn't work at all
[18:34] <markey> I placed a symlink there to this tray app
[18:34] <markey> no change
[18:34] <markey> neither does right-clicking the tray app do anything good
[18:34] <apachelogger> debfx: ^
[18:34] <markey> who codes such a bloody mess... an app that doesn't remember its settings
[18:34] <markey> it boggles the mind
[18:35] <markey> as far as I can see, this KRandTray thing simply doesn't store its own settings
[18:35] <markey> that's all
[18:35] <markey> O.o
[18:37] <shadeslayer> ScottK: um... i dont see doc files in debian/kplayer.install ... what do i do?
[18:37] <shadeslayer> and neither in debian/docs
[18:39] <apachelogger> markey: it doesnt have own settings
[18:39] <apachelogger> markey: IIRC it is sharing settings with the KCM (or kephal, or maybe both?)
[18:39] <apachelogger> but yes, it is a bloody mess
[18:39] <apachelogger> and I think it is mostly because that crap is unmaintained and without someone who has a clear vision
[18:39] <apachelogger> also kephal is largely a code duplication of the KCM yet the KCM does not use kephal
[18:39] <apachelogger> ...
[18:41] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Figure out the best thing.  Maybe that's why the packages weren't dropped on the last merge.  Try to figure out why we have them and Debian doesn't.
[18:41] <shadeslayer> yeah ..thats what im trying
[18:53] <shadeslayer> we needz to keep those packages ...
[19:18] <Quintasan> hmm
[19:18] <Quintasan> someone pinged me
[19:18] <nigelb> Quintasan: ping.
[19:18] <nigelb> There. HAppy?
[19:18] <sheytan> Quintasan me, yesterday ;P
[19:18] <Quintasan> oh
[19:18]  * Quintasan is busy with school things and has almost no time from irc apart from polish lessons
[19:19] <Quintasan> sheytan: so, what's up?
[19:19] <sheytan> Quintasan i've logo for you :P
[19:19] <Quintasan> !!!1!!
[19:19] <Quintasan> shiftone
[19:19] <sheytan> Quintasan it's in two color variants. let me show you
[19:21] <sheytan> Quintasan http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/214/g4623.png
[19:21] <sheytan> http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6756/pj512.png
[19:21] <Quintasan> I'd like those letter more fancy and pink
[19:21] <Quintasan> :P
[19:22] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: ^^
[19:22] <Quintasan> and bigger
[19:22] <Quintasan> sheytan: ^
[19:22] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: ive seen them yesterday :D
[19:22] <Quintasan> sheytan: so, can you make PN bigger, fancier and pink on top of that? :D
[19:22] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: pink? were not Project Pink
[19:22] <sheytan> pink looks cooler :D
[19:22] <shadeslayer> were Project Neon :P
[19:23] <Quintasan> pink neon light == win
[19:23] <Quintasan> s/project\ neon/pink\ project\ neon/
[19:23] <Quintasan> oh crap
[19:23] <sheytan> So
[19:24] <sheytan> pink or black?
[19:24] <Quintasan> sheytan: pink
[19:24] <Quintasan> please ping me with the result, I have to for for 30 minutes
[19:25] <sheytan> sure
[19:36] <eMyller> ellos
[19:37] <eMyller> where did kmail 2 go?
[19:37] <eMyller> i can't find it anywhere Oo
[19:45] <nixternal> ScottK: out of town right now. bibke races.
[19:54] <shadeslayer> eMyller: its in experimental ppa
[19:54] <shadeslayer> eMyller: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/experimental
[19:55] <eMyller> ty :D
[19:55] <sheytan> Quintasan sorry, i can't today. Can't comeout how nicely connect text with background ;/
[19:55] <eMyller> weird, i should have it in my sources...
[19:55] <ScottK> nixternal: OK.  Thanks.  Please let me know when you can fire it up.
[20:02] <jjesse-netbook_> ScottK: something i can test for you whle nixternal is out riding?
[20:02] <ScottK> jjesse-netbook_: You have a power pc system?
[20:02] <jjesse-netbook_> nope :(
[20:02] <jjesse-netbook_> didnt know that was the problem
[20:02] <ScottK> OK, then no.
[20:03] <ScottK> Yeah.
[20:04] <jjesse-netbook> hrm
[20:09] <shadeslayer> jjesse-netbook: oh oh
[20:09] <jjesse-netbook> ?
[20:09] <shadeslayer> hold on
[20:10] <jjesse-netbook> holding :)
[20:10] <shadeslayer> now where did that bug go
[20:11] <shadeslayer> jjesse-netbook: bug 625833
[20:11] <shadeslayer> please looky
[20:11] <shadeslayer> i think its invalid.. since its GIMP not gimp
[20:12] <shadeslayer> ScottK: https://edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+files/kplayer_0.7-2ubuntu1.dsc
[20:12] <shadeslayer> also.. wait for 20 mins before uploading :) .. the 32 bit package will be built by then
[20:13] <jjesse-netbook> ok will look but we are in freeze there for translations so i can commit a fix but will land wehn we do a doc update not before rlease
[20:14] <shadeslayer> sure ... but like i said... its probably invalid
[20:18] <jjesse-netbook> ok will look at it
[20:29] <lex79> ScottK: too difficult fix ktoon on armel, it ftbfs since 2007 in Debian http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiProblems#ktoon
[20:29] <lex79> ScottK: anyway there is a new version http://www.ktoon.net/portal/download_counter, maybe fix the problem
[20:30] <lex79> the code is much changed in the newest versions
[20:40] <seele> markey: i with system settings would stop changing until we figure out an actual solution
[20:41] <markey> seele: IMHO this needs a proper usability analysis before any hacker messes with it again
[20:48] <apachelogger> that reminds me that someone still didnt get her bread crumbs in kickoff ^^
[21:01] <ulysses> omg, giovanni sent an e-mail to kubuntu-devel…
[21:05] <apachelogger> I think it is truly a tragedy (admittedly minor, but tragic nontheless)
[21:05] <apachelogger> that apparently the relevant developers don't monitor this ku-user list,
[21:05] <apachelogger> so that user level concerns could get an answer for all the users to
[21:05] <apachelogger> see, from the relevant website & wiki developers.
[21:05] <apachelogger> that is an interesting POV
[21:09] <neversfelde> still no launchpad for me
[21:10] <neversfelde> ahh
[21:14] <claydoh> apachelogger: that dude is a pain :/
[21:14] <apachelogger> claydoh: how so?
[21:14] <claydoh> apachelogger: and I am probably being kind
[21:15] <claydoh> not his ideas, just his cross-posted questions/demands
[21:15] <claydoh> just ask Mamarok
[21:16] <apachelogger> Mamarok: consider yourself asked :)
[21:17] <Mamarok> apachelogger: and what is the question?
[21:17] <apachelogger> am I too drunk?
[21:17] <claydoh> Mamarok: john_re
[21:17] <apachelogger> ah, no
[21:17] <apachelogger> Mamarok: why is that person a PITA
[21:17] <Mamarok> oh my...
[21:18] <Mamarok> apachelogger: he has not a clue, asks the same questions all over again and cross-posts on at least 3 lsits at a time
[21:18] <Mamarok> and he never thanks for an answer or gives feedback if the question is answered (as Basil pointed out recently)
[21:19] <Mamarok> and I sometimes suspect him to quest ask questions for the sake of it
[21:19] <claydoh> apachelogger: and he even has askes others to post bug reports for his own problems
[21:19] <Mamarok> just*
[21:19] <apachelogger> maybe he should be lessoned and turned
[21:19] <apachelogger> turned into a minion
[21:19] <Mamarok> oh, right, he spends hours on mails but pretends not to have time to file a bug
[21:19] <ulysses> shortly: he is an idiot
[21:20] <Mamarok> ulysses: +1
[21:20] <claydoh> apachelogger: you can have him :(
[21:20] <Mamarok> sad to say so
[21:20] <claydoh> ulysses: +1
[21:20] <Mamarok> apachelogger: yes, please, take him :)
[21:20] <apachelogger> lol
[21:20] <apachelogger> see
[21:20] <Mamarok> you will never turn that guy into a minion, ever
[21:20] <apachelogger> if you bun too was less of a political project you would just ban it :P
[21:20] <claydoh> apachelogger: but I won't be buying you extra beer if you do 
[21:20] <Mamarok> not in a thousand years
[21:20] <apachelogger> or rather I would be mod and ban him for being annoyed :P
[21:21] <Mamarok> two extra beers!
[21:21] <apachelogger> thankfully you bun too is not ^^
[21:21] <claydoh> apachelogger: you'd have a better time making me a minion
[21:21] <claydoh> :(
[21:21] <Mamarok> claydoh: should we ban him ?
[21:21] <claydoh> that came out wrong
[21:22] <ulysses> let the banhammer fall!
[21:22] <apachelogger> Mamarok: claydoh?
[21:22] <Mamarok> the point is that we don't have enough arguments for banning, he is just a PITA, that is maybe not a good argument
[21:22] <apachelogger> claydoh: you know, I can't help it, but that sounded kind of dirty
[21:22] <apachelogger> no, actually a lot
[21:22] <apachelogger> ...
[21:22] <claydoh> Mamarok: exactly
[21:22] <apachelogger> family friendly channel, yeah sure...
[21:22] <apachelogger> :P
[21:23] <Mamarok> apachelogger: I sometimes wish we were not...
[21:23] <claydoh> apachelogger: I don't know how to respond without making it less family freindly :D
[21:23] <lex79> apachelogger: do you have nvidia card with proprietary driver?
[21:23] <apachelogger> lex79: no, I have ATI card with proprietary driver
[21:23] <apachelogger> Mamarok: me too, a lot, just for the sake of enjoying a dirty joke :P
[21:24] <lex79> apachelogger: oh, does plymouth work with ATI ?
[21:24] <Mamarok> be it only to be able once to tell people to RTFM and learn to google... 
[21:24] <apachelogger> lex79: I am on lucid
[21:24] <apachelogger> lex79: on mav there is no fglrx
[21:24] <lex79> ok
[21:24] <apachelogger> but radeon worked
[21:24] <apachelogger> pretty well
[21:24] <lex79> it doesn't work here :(
[21:24]  * Mamarok is really happy with her SSD :)
[21:24] <apachelogger> except that I only saw it for like 1 second ^^
[21:24] <apachelogger> Mamarok: ohhh, I envy you
[21:25] <claydoh> Mamarok: also if he is snubbed hard, he'll just fan his complaints out to the rest of the mailinglist world
[21:25] <claydoh> since he doesn't seem to understand forums (thank goodness:) )
[21:25] <apachelogger> hm
[21:26] <Mamarok> claydoh: oh yes, I remember when he insisted on talking on short notice at KDE camp
[21:26] <apachelogger> maybe the IAMANOVERLORD hammer would help
[21:26] <Mamarok> short notice as in two days
[21:27] <claydoh> Mamarok: anyway it seems that most of the list simply ignores him. Perhaps I should, too
[21:27] <Mamarok> we had to ban him from the irc channel in question, and I remember having banned him from #kubuntu as well
[21:27] <apachelogger> the one where lex79 replies to that somewhat odd complaint implicitly stating his supremacy as kubuntu developer and supreme haxx0r and someone who gives it to millions of people
[21:27] <apachelogger> ... the result of the supreme work that is
[21:28] <Mamarok> claydoh: well, maybe, but I doubt it will help, instead the k-u list will turn into a john-re soliloquy
[21:28]  * lex79 is confused
[21:28] <apachelogger> lex79: I just implicitly asked you to deal with the john_re problem at kubuntu-devel using the IAMANOVERLORD hammer
[21:29] <apachelogger> Mamarok,claydoh: does he answer stuff himself?
[21:29] <claydoh> apachelogger: no
[21:29] <apachelogger> sucking answers out of others without giving back is IMHO a very good reason for banning
[21:29] <Mamarok> apachelogger: nope, but he just asks the same question with slight changes all over again, and crossposts even more lists
[21:29] <apachelogger> or moderation for that matter
[21:29] <lex79> poor soul
[21:30]  * lex79 giggles
[21:30] <apachelogger> lex79: no giggling allowed, someone might op in and kick you out :P
[21:30] <Mamarok> hm, maybe we should set him on moderation again, but that implies we do read his mails so we can moderate...
[21:31]  * claydoh goes back to housecleaning to get this off his mind
[21:31] <Mamarok> and direct him to the right place, and that is the most tiring work actuall
[21:31] <apachelogger> Mamarok: or reject on general principle
[21:31] <Mamarok> y
[21:31] <claydoh> Mamarok: I am tired of always having to redirect him
[21:31] <Mamarok> apachelogger: he will start crossposting and complaining in a lot of places
[21:31] <apachelogger> "not related to topic" or "already asked, see list archives"...
[21:31] <claydoh> Mamarok: +1 :(
[21:31] <Mamarok> as he complained in the -ops channel about a year ago...
[21:32] <Mamarok> and in various kde-channels
[21:32] <apachelogger> so drag him in front of the council! 
[21:32] <lex79> plymouth doesn't have much bugs open...just 127
[21:32] <claydoh> but he hasn't done anything 'wrong' exactly, yet
[21:32] <lex79> lol
[21:32] <Mamarok> that is the problem
[21:32] <Mamarok> he is a nuisance but we don't have enough to get rid of him
[21:32] <apachelogger> hurting the community in annoying people is wrong
[21:32] <claydoh> I'll take  the blame for taking him off moderation
[21:32] <Mamarok> enough reasons that would justify a banning
[21:33] <Mamarok> hm, claydoh, I will support you on that one, let us take the blame together :)
[21:33] <apachelogger> lex79: and I did not even report that kubuntu has a code copy of ubuntu's theme :P
[21:33] <Mamarok> moderation it is, then
[21:33] <apachelogger> lex79: and that I consider a major
[21:34] <lex79> all related to plymouth is a crap for me
[21:34] <claydoh> Mamarok: it was my kind-hearted nature that took him off of it :/
[21:34] <apachelogger> Mamarok, claydoh: how is general moodyness on the list these days btw?
[21:35] <apachelogger> claydoh: if you want to have a good time with me making you a minion that kind-hearted nature must go away :P
[21:35] <claydoh> apachelogger: super quiet, actually, low volume, and many 'regulars' don't even use KDE
[21:35] <Mamarok> apachelogger: not too bad, rather calm, I moderated the worst flamers wh were not even using KDE
[21:35] <apachelogger> lex79: well, I imagine that whole startup business a bit of a patchy hacky foobar crap
[21:35] <Mamarok> one started to tell people to use Gnome...
[21:35] <claydoh> apachelogger: I am a manager in a fast-food restaurant, I can turn that off and on at will nowadays :D
[21:36] <claydoh> or even both good and bad at the same time if I am good :)
[21:36] <apachelogger> claydoh, Mamarok: I imagine the target audience of Kubuntu prefers something more ... well ... modern, so that low volume could be a good sign
[21:37] <apachelogger> like if I would be using Kubuntu I would use a forum for support
[21:37] <apachelogger> oh shoot, now I gave away that I am running suse
[21:37] <apachelogger> meh.
[21:37] <claydoh> apachelogger: agreed. KFN is a very nice place to be
[21:37] <Mamarok> apachelogger: you will loose all your hair, markey did so after touching SuSE
[21:37] <ScottK> lex79: If you think it'd be better to have the new version (whether it fixes the FTBFS or not) then I'd say do an FFe and I can approve it.
[21:37]  * apachelogger notes: topic for UDS super duper monster specify what the target audience looks like
[21:38] <apachelogger> Mamarok: well, every distro got its crappynesses, some are just easier to bare than others
[21:39] <Mamarok> apachelogger: you go to UDS this time?
[21:39] <apachelogger> yus
[21:39] <Mamarok> nice :) it's about time you do :)
[21:39] <apachelogger> well, I am not there yet, so... ;)
[21:39]  * claydoh goes back to cleaning house (for real) while dreaming of buying a used  laptop to replace the nearly 8 year old one he has now
[21:40] <apachelogger> claydoh: ask novell to sponsor one and become contributor at opensuse
[21:40] <Mamarok> claydoh: I wanted to replace a HD in my sisters old laptop, it doesn't even have sata connectors :(
[21:40] <apachelogger> or try fedora, I am sure red hat is nice to their elite contributors
[21:40] <lex79> ScottK: I will see what I can do
[21:41] <ScottK> lex79: Thanks.
[21:41] <apachelogger> Mamarok: regarding such things laptops are evil anyway
[21:41]  * apachelogger just buys a new one every 2-3 years
[21:43]  * apachelogger gets himself a glass of sturm and wonders what movie to watch
[21:43] <ScottK> apachelogger: The reason I'm not on kubuntu-users ML anymore is excessively annoying users.  I couldn't take it anymore.
[21:43] <jjesse> ScottK i think that is the reason most devs aren't on that list
[21:44] <ScottK> Sometime, relatively recently, there was a long thread on ubuntu-devel-discuss to the effect that if users didn't play nice in their discussions with developers, they would just leave the list and chat on ubuntu-devel.  It seemed to calm things down.
[21:44] <ScottK> jjesse: Probably.
[21:45] <ScottK> One of the down sides of having actual elections for KC is that it's become much more developer focused.  When we just sat down and picked people, we had a better distribution of different interests.
[21:46] <apachelogger> my concern very much
[21:46] <apachelogger> thing is we do not actually have many non-developers running for KC
[22:01] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It looks fine, but drop kplayer-dbg.  That way it won't have to go through binary new (we didn't have that before).
[22:01] <ScottK> (ping me again when it's ready)
[22:03] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Also check the depends and see if it can move to Universe.  It's in Debian Main, so unless we have an added depends on something in Multiverse, it probably can.
[22:05] <Mamarok> ScottK: but most of those annoying users are not there anymore. Now we only need to get rid of those who don't use KDE (or win them back if they ever did)
[22:28] <maco> ScottK: the "devs are going to ignore u-d-d and stick to u-d" threads come up fairly regularly, dont they?
[22:28] <maco> i left u-d-d a bit over a year ago
[22:55] <ScottK> maco: Not recently.  It's been pretty calm recently.
[22:59]  * maco pokes kstandarddirs
[23:21] <lex79> ScottK: the new version of ktoon requires Kom http://www.ktoon.net/portal/download_counter to build and we don't have it in the archive, no chance to fix ktoon in maverick
[23:22] <ScottK> lex79: OK.  Thanks for looking into it.
[23:22] <lex79> no problem, I will do for natty
[23:23] <ScottK> Great.
[23:25] <lex79> most users complain that we don't have anymore qtmultimedia, it seems this cause problems with lucid backport but I don't understand which issues it causes
[23:40] <Riddell> I don't think we even had any users of qtmultimedia in lucid
[23:45] <lex79> there is a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/+bug/629349
[23:46] <lex79> uh and I received 2 annoying emails about that