[01:23] <MTecknology> what's extras.ubuntu.com?
[01:29] <kklimonda> MTecknology: new repository for post-release applications
[01:33] <kklimonda> MTecknology: also see !extras :)
[01:34] <persia> !extras
[01:35] <MTecknology> oh..
[01:35] <MTecknology> cool
[01:36] <MTecknology> awesome idea
[01:36] <kklimonda> poor execution
[01:36] <virtuald> how's it different from backports?
[01:37] <kklimonda> virtuald: it's accepted by other team, applications aren't packaged by maintainers..
[01:37] <virtuald> they're packaged by upstream maintainers?
[01:38] <kklimonda> virtuald: I think the idea has been to provide a Quickly template (or rather use the current one)
[01:38] <kklimonda> virtuald: afair upstream developers package their software, upload it to ppa and then application-review-board reviews them and ACKs (or not)
[01:39] <persia> virtuald, The details are still being finalised, but I believe that extras packages are not expected to be part of the following release, as opposed to adding new packages in backports by adding them to the in-development release first.
[01:39] <kklimonda> virtuald: and yes, it's quite similar to -backports
[01:40] <virtuald> thank you for the answers :)
[01:40] <persia> Well, it also differs from backports in that it can't contain anything already in the release normally.
[01:41] <persia> I believe the main reason it's not actually just part of backports is that there is a bug in apt.
[01:42] <kklimonda> persia: oh? what bug?
[01:43] <persia> kklimonda, I'm not deeply familiar with the details, but something about not being able to set pinning in such a way that stuff from backports would get upgraded if the backports version was installed, but users wouldn't automatically be upgraded to backports versions if they hadn't selected it.
[01:44] <persia> As long as that bug is there, people can only have backports turned on or turned off: there's no way to have only part of backports.  Since new applications are theoretically safer, it isn't as bad to have folks install new stuff (as long as it can be updated).
[01:44] <kklimonda> persia: ah, yes - this is the biggest (if not the only) problem with -backports
[01:44] <kklimonda> right
[01:44] <persia> Mind you, there are other issues with how the new stuff is currently delivered, but I don't want to get into that discussion again just now.
[01:45] <persia> kklimonda, Yeah.  backports hurts from it anyway, even without extras.
[01:45] <persia> On the other hand, we can support software in backports, which makes me tend to prefer than means of delivery, despite the bug.
[01:46] <persia> Anyway, need to go away from the computer.
[01:46] <geser> persia: I use debian-backports with a pinning of 200 to get updates for packages from -backports on the Debian system I administer
[01:47] <kklimonda> bah, I'm not up to this discussion two nights in a row.
[01:47] <poolie> bye persia
[01:47] <kklimonda> time to get some sleep :)
[01:47] <persia> geser, I believe you.  I don't understand the details.  Ask mvo or ScottK
[01:47] <kklimonda> geser: so how does it work? you can install package from -backports manually and it then gets updated when the new version is uploaded to -backports?
[01:48] <geser> kklimonda: yes
[01:49] <geser> kklimonda: see the last paragraph in http://backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=instructions
[01:50] <kklimonda> geser: hmm, that sounds great.. but I cant think straight anymore (or even see) so I'll take my leave :)
[01:50] <kklimonda> geser: thanks for the link
[03:36] <ScottK> virtuald: It's for applications that are so essential for people to get that they can't wait for the next release, but also aren't good enough that we actually want them in Ubuntu.
[03:37] <virtuald> aha
[03:37] <ScottK> persia: The apt resolver issue would have taken far less effort to fix than what was required to create the new repository.  I don't believe that's the reason.
[03:38] <ScottK> geser: The problem is that with just pinning there are issues when you need to pull dependencies from backports, IIRC.
[03:40] <ScottK> Reading p.u.c, I find it interesting that AMIs of Ubuntu are apparently published by Canonical as a corporate entity and not as part of the Ubuntu project.
[03:41] <wgrant> Which p?
[03:41] <wgrant> planet
[03:41] <wgrant> ?
[03:52] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:52] <ScottK> http://feeds.alestic.com/~r/alestic-planetubuntu/~3/kYDyWOzykY4/ec2-ami-canonical-t1micro
[03:54] <ScottK> geser: I remember now.  The issue is that if a dependency is present in the main repo, but not in sufficient version, apt will consider it found the package, but not a high enough version and consider the backport uninstallable.  It never notices a higher version of the same package in the repository that's pinned down.
[03:54]  * ScottK is now really away.
[06:34] <MTecknology> ScottK: heh.. so if a package of mine winds up in extras, it means that I was whiny enough about it even though it might be a butt ugly package?
[08:23] <YokoZar> lucidfox: uploaded a new Wine1.2 with that patch
[08:23] <lucidfox> danke!
[08:23] <lucidfox> now all that remains is to resolve the crash-on-Battle.net-login thing
[09:12] <persia> ScottK, That was the reason that was given to me last time I asked (in May).  If that changed, the new reason would be interesting to me.  I suspect momentum and confusion rather than deliberation at work.
[09:48] <debfx> ScottK: could you please have a look at these backport requests: bug #600321 and bug #647361
[09:54] <RainCT> DktrKranz: Hey. There's a pretty big bug in pbuilder-dist in the last u-d-t release. Do you want to upload a 0.104 to Debian so Ubuntu can sync again from there?
[10:00] <DktrKranz> RainCT: d'oh :(
[10:03] <sebner> DktrKranz: It's nice to be happy ...
[10:04] <DktrKranz> sebner: shut up, Flanders :)
[10:04] <sebner> DktrKranz: Silence! I k*ll you!
[10:05] <DktrKranz> RainCT: are there other changes/bugs waiting to be fixed?
[10:06] <RainCT> hey sebner :)
[10:06] <sebner> hola RainCT :)
[10:07] <RainCT> DktrKranz: Launchpad as 23 (o.O) open bugs, but I don't know if anyone is working on them
[10:09] <RainCT> s/as/has
[10:23] <DktrKranz> bdrung_: want to try it? :)
[10:52]  * iulian looks around.
[11:39] <jetienne> q. what is the maintainer script which is executed *after* the files are copied/installed, but before launching the daemon ? (it is a /etc/init.d daemon package)
[11:42] <RainCT> jetienne: postinst. This is also where the daemon is launched.
[11:42] <jetienne> RainCT: the daemon is launch before or after my debian/postinst ?
[11:42] <RainCT> jetienne: it is the postinst which launches the daemon
[11:42] <jetienne> we are looping :)
[11:42] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: did you wrote an e-mail discuss about reviewing main by MOTU?
[11:43] <jetienne> RainCT: i put stuff in my debian/postinst... and the daemon is started in some dh_helper scripts... my debian/postinst is before or after ?
[11:44] <RainCT> jetienne: what package is that?
[11:44] <jetienne> RainCT: neoip-router, thisis in my ppa
[11:44] <geser> jetienne: depends if you put your code before or after the magic debhelper token
[11:45] <jetienne> RainCT: experimentation seems to say /etc/init.d/neoip-router start is done before my debian/postinst
[11:47] <RainCT> jetienne: The code to launch the daemon is added by dh_installinit to the postinst file in the place where it has #DEBHELPER#
[11:47] <jetienne> oh
[11:47] <RainCT> jetienne: if you open the .deb with file-roller and look inside the DEBIAN directory in there you can see what the maintainer scripts look like
[11:48] <jetienne> i may have missed this #DEBHELPER#  :)
[11:50] <bdrung_> DktrKranz: there is one merge proposal. should we include it before uploading?
[11:50] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: not yet.
[11:55] <jetienne> RainCT: it looks like this is just me forgetting #DEBHELPER# all along. thanks a lot for your help
[11:56] <RainCT> jetienne: No problem :)
[12:02] <DktrKranz> bdrung_: I think tumbleweed's comment is valid, so it requires a little bit of extra-work
[12:03] <tumbleweed> I couldn't test that merge proposal properly because I ran into a related bug while testing it. But it looks good (as I said)
[12:13] <bdrung_> DktrKranz: ok. i am going to upload it.
[12:47] <bdrung_> DktrKranz: done
[13:58] <onkarshinde> cjwatson: Can you please reject libdvdread from queue. I will reupload it with the changes you recommended.
[14:54] <leleobhz> im build a patched version of a mainstream package to use within my ppa and i this package comes from a git resource
[14:55] <leleobhz> how can i update the git tree with packages like this
[14:55] <leleobhz> (package is aiccu)
[15:25] <ScottK> debfx: Approved.
[15:26] <ScottK> persia: That was the reason give, but since the implementation path that was chosen was substantially more complex than the one that was not, I don't believe the choice was based on just technical merit.
[15:38] <ScottK> superm1: Looking at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56440898/mythbuntu-live-autostart_0.49-0ubuntu1_0.50-0ubuntu1.diff.gz I don't see what the changes are the correspond to the changelog discussion about keep gstreamer out and updating artwork?
[16:01] <debfx> ScottK: thanks
[16:02] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[16:15] <bluefoxicy> so has anyone figured out why Thunderbird breaks when updated?
[16:16] <bluefoxicy> like every single time since 10.04 was released I've updated it, it's gone into this cycle where displaying the message list causes it to eat infinite ram and I have to kill it or it'll grind my 4 gig machine to a halt
[16:16] <bluefoxicy> eventually it behaves for unknown reasons
[16:16] <bluefoxicy> then there's an update, and ... yeah, cycle repeats.
[16:16] <jpds> Mozilla products are designed to be restarted when upgraded.
[16:17] <bluefoxicy> jpds: Yeah, well I've restarted it about 30 times now since the last upgrade and switching into the messages tab causes it to grind to a halt as it loads a message
[16:17] <bluefoxicy> this isn't "Close thunderbird and when you open it again it's fixed"
[16:17] <bluefoxicy> this is "once you close thunderbird, it'll be broken when you open it with the new version"
[16:18] <bluefoxicy> okay... closing it and removing compatibility.ini doesn't fix the problem either.
[16:18] <ScottK> bluefoxicy: My kids are using it on 10.04 and haven't reported problems.
[16:19] <jpds> TEST PASSED>
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> mmap(NULL, 1048576, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f81cfa00000
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> mmap(NULL, 1048576, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f81cf900000
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> mmap(NULL, 1048576, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f81cf800000
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> --- SIGTERM (Terminated) @ 0 (0) ---
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> This is what's going on
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> it runs that mmap in a loop forever, until terminated
[16:19] <ScottK> bluefoxicy: I'd ask about it on #ubuntu-mozillateam.
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> oh ok there's a team for this
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> by the way I have an strace :|
[18:16] <superm1> ScottK, artwork can't be represented in the diff.gz, it's in the orig.tar.gz.  the changes to modify which packages install are +            self.preseed('ubiquity/nonfree_package', 'flashplugin-installer') and a few other similar
[18:16] <ScottK> superm1: Right, but I didn't see anything about gstreamer and that's in the changelog.
[18:17] <ScottK> If you're confident it's what you wanted, I'll accept it, it just didn't quite seem to match.
[18:17] <superm1> ubuntu-restricted-addons depends on gstreamer stuff, this is overriding the package that gets installed to not be ubuntu-restricted-addons
[18:18] <ScottK> I see.  OK.
[18:19] <ScottK> superm1: Accepted.
[18:19] <superm1> thx
[18:19] <ScottK> Thanks for explaining.
[18:20] <superm1> you guys had the same problem with kubuntu, but it's fixed by using a similar code path in the kde frontend
[18:23]  * ScottK nods.
[18:25] <superm1> could you also take a look at the usb-creator?  I re-upped' without the backup.bzr from the branch upgrade
[18:28] <tumbleweed> If I need to do a once-off deviation from debian (to bootstrap mit-schemes which BDs on itself through a compiler-rename) should I use -1build1 ?
[18:32] <tumbleweed> I suppose that's misleading. /me doesn't do that
[18:38]  * RainCT wonders what the difference between restricted-extras and restricted-addons is
[18:45] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: around?
[18:45] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: about to go out
[18:46] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: :( I would talk about bug in M-o-M
[19:35] <ari-tczew> iulian: ping
[19:53] <debfx> chrisccoulson: could you please have a look at bug #647484, I think those 2 packages just have to be added to ia32-libs
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> debfx - heh, i had a feeling that once i'd done one ia32-libs upload, i would be doomed for life ;)
[20:05] <ScottK> superm1: I looked at usb-creator and I feel a little out of my depth on that one.
[20:09] <debfx> chrisccoulson: I just wanted to fulfill your expectations ;D
[20:18] <superm1> ScottK, er you mean due to wearing different hats looking at it differently (release versus archive)?
[21:36] <ScottK> superm1: I approved the FFe because it seems to make sense to get the feature in for this cycle, but I"m not comfortable with being that last set of eyes on the exact code changes.  I don't understand it well enough.
[22:15] <RainCT> Ouch. I'm just trying out Unity for the first time and it does lots of weird stuff
[22:16] <iulian> Blame... hmm.
[22:16] <iulian> Maybe didrocks. :)
[22:18] <RainCT> Heh. It looks like it doesn't like my graphics card (Intel; I'm getting artifacts in the panel and weird stuff), the left panel ignores half of my clicks, sometimes the background image of the top panel disappears.... :'(
[22:18] <RainCT> Oh and it has no Alt+F2 which sucks big time :P
[22:19] <RainCT> It looks like it'd be a pretty nice thing if it worked, though (disregarding the missing alt+f2)
[22:20] <iulian> Ihhhh, no alt+f2?
[22:20] <iulian> That really sucks indeed.
[22:20]  * iulian hasn't used une yet.
[22:22] <iulian> I'm sure there's an option somewhere to enable it.  Loads of people love the alt+f2 button.
[22:23]  * RainCT wonders if Unity's global menu bar is the real reason why window buttons moved to the left
[22:26] <superm1> alt-f2 was a feature of the gnome-panel itself i thought
[22:27] <RainCT> superm1: True.
[22:29] <iulian> Hmm.
[22:33] <RainCT> Shell also implements it though. It's pretty simple.
[22:58] <ScottK> RainCT: There's a new mesa snapshot in www.cooperteam.net/Packages from RAOF that should help.
[22:58] <ScottK> (assuming you're on Maverick)
[22:58] <RainCT> ScottK: thanks, giving it a try.
[23:26] <RainCT> Not really seeing a change.
[23:33] <savvas0> Hello, does anyone know if there is any chance to include in ubuntu 10.10 the carl9170 firmware in order to fix bug #540827 for some wireless atheros usb sticks?
[23:38] <ScottK> savvas0: Barring emergencies, they've done the last kernel upload for Maverick.  They are now working on the first post-release update.  You might ask jfo on #ubuntu-kernel if that's something that might be considered for a post-release update.  I'm not sure if he'll be around on the weekend or not.
[23:42] <savvas0> ok, thank you very much :) I'll probably check again on a weekday
[23:45] <ScottK> You're welcome.