[02:05] duanedesign: yo [02:11] stlsaint: lo [02:12] duanedesign: hows clicompanion coming? [02:19] stlsaint: have not had a chance to mess with it today :\ [02:19] hopefully get a chance to test/fix it tomorrow [02:49] Can anyone help me detect what is happening when my filesystem loses directories (or drives) full of data? I think nautilus is at the heart of my trouble as these errors only occur when I move or copy files in the GUI. [02:51] CassandraKos: you have any crash reports? [02:51] I am hunting for appropriate threads in the forums but so far have found nothing helpful, so I hope there is someone out there with the knowledge I lack. [02:51] No crash reports - the system is unaware of its errors. [02:52] CassandraKos: so you are losing whole partitions? [02:52] It is ext3 and probably assumes it makes no mistakes - I am losing directory files - or their contents, but not whole partitions. [02:53] I lost ten seasons of Stargate SG-1 [02:53] directory files? ones you created or default folders? [02:53] but all the star trek is intact on the same drive [02:53] my directories [02:54] one was calles SG-1 and transformed into an avi file [02:54] very weird [02:54] the 19 files in the SG-1 directory just vanished [02:55] and the directory name was assigned to a fle that had been in the directory [02:55] CassandraKos: have you filed a bug? or looked on launchpad for any related bugs? [02:55] pointer errors by nautilus, I suspect [02:55] cannot find anything related - but what is the bug? I cannot quantify it until Iknow what is happening [02:56] not sure if it is pointers or not [02:56] CassandraKos: can you reproduce the behavior without hurting any other directorys? [02:56] don't know how to find out what is going wrong [02:57] it seems to happen at random intervals and I cannot reproduce it at will or at all, it just happens ... sometimes [02:57] this should not hapen with a jounalling filesystem [02:58] CassandraKos: if you think it is nautilus than try installing a new DE [02:58] any suggestions? [02:58] this one came with ubuntu [02:59] have used KDE - like Gnome better [02:59] but not familiar with another filemanager [03:00] also not sure how to get nautilus to go away if I replace it [03:01] I hate being a beginner after 30 years using computers, but I am but an egg in Ubuntu [03:01] appreciate any help [03:02] CassandraKos: well considering that you are losing files without knowledge i would hate to leave nautilus running i would suggest using KDE for awhile (which uses dolphin and not nautilus) to try and isolate your issue [03:04] thanks, I will, there have been many times I have wanted to remove a package and found it wanted to take the ubuntu-desktop with it - perhaps there is a good reason for that! [03:05] Running in a terminal is a better learning experience, maybe I should operate without a GUI at all and get up to speed faster. [03:06] CassandraKos: hrm, i wouldnt suggest going without gui with you being new to ubuntu [03:10] But I am not new to cmmand line operation - I like it! (I am a strange beast.) [03:10] however, I now have to update my repositories, I think, as kde is not installable because of unmet dependancies [03:11] am installing dolphin now [03:12] CassandraKos: you just install the kubuntu-desktop-environment [03:12] I just thought at command level I would be told more about what is happening when the system freezes up and other goodies. [03:12] ah - was asking it to install the wrong thing, my ignorance thanks you for its elimination [03:14] CassandraKos: there is nothing more that cli will give you that a gui cant [03:14] CassandraKos: as far as crash reports go that is [03:15] you are probably right - but it feels (just like a woman to say that) like the GUI is getting in the way of me using my computer [03:16] and of course, the repository thing was right (I guessed as much) it says E: Couldn't find package kubuntu-desktop-environment [03:18] I'll bet I have one somewhere about on a CD ... (hunts about in study) but adding another repository is easier [03:20] hello [03:20] ? [03:20] Now there is another problem I can reproduce - the moment I put a data DVD in the drive (looking for kubuntu) the whole system froze [03:20] hello [03:21] i was lookin to get a little help with ubuntu [03:21] you are in the right place [03:21] i thought maybe :) [03:23] Not that I am brilliant - but there are those here who are wonderful - take a bow, saint [03:24] Poor dear may not have meant to do that [03:24] you came back [03:24] oops [03:24] what happened? [03:24] Hi all [03:24] thought you didn't mean to do that [03:24] hi [03:24] hey [03:25] it said "Guest65190 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer)." to us [03:25] What happened at your end is anyone's guess [03:26] well anyway, so now it says "(process:342): Glib-WARNING **: getpwuid_r(): failed due to unknown user id (0)" [03:26] i think i just lost my connection [03:26] Does anyone know if in Terminator Terminal I can direct a command from one command line to fire in another? I'm using it to have multiple segmented terminals all on one screen and want to be able to run a command in one without switching to it [03:27] Good question TJ - I would like the answer to that one, too, am researching it on the net atm/ [03:27] You're back now, anyway Guest, so at least you can return if it happens again. [03:27] perhaps we have to run processes as another user? [03:28] any guidance as to what that line means? again, i'm new to anything other than winblows, sorry lol [03:28] sup folks [03:28] sorry, what issues are you fine folks having? [03:29] there should be (and probably is) a command to run a programme from a terminal window without using the use of the terminal window. (Bats eyelashes at gurus in room) [03:29] CassandraKos: you mean right click the file and select run from terminal? [03:30] Guest65190 - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1443231 this seems related to that error message if that helps [03:30] maybe that is what I mean [03:31] CassandraKos: well "run a command from terminal without using a terminal"...?? lol [03:32] stlsaint I'm more or less trying to do the same. However I'm using a splitscreen display with Terminator Terminal, and I want to fire a program in one 'section' for lack of a better word ( terminator allows you to pane your open terminal windows on one screen) from another. For instance I have a main command line I use, and then three monitoring windows, I want to start up 'tail -f errorlog.txt' without actually clicking onto a [03:33] So I was trying to find a way to send a command from one cli to another I guess [03:33] TJ_D: You can't actually do that, since it's a security problem if you can run from one Terminal to another [03:34] TJ_D: sorry i have never nor known of any command to do that [03:34] So everytime I start up my workstation I have to manually set it up and launch the programs, I cant have like a script that does it or something [03:34] TJ_D: yes you can, if you are wanting to have a program start than add it to yoru startup applications list [03:35] really? [03:35] is that the way? [03:35] seems an overreaction to wanting to run vlc, for example, as well as dolphin [03:36] TJ_D: the other issue you are having of trying to spread a command across multiple terminals is somethign i have not seen nor used [03:36] would I have to reboot whenever I wanted to use another programme? [03:36] Like the sound of that Terminator, TJ [03:36] Maybe I'm explaining wrong. All I want to do is have two of my windows run the tail program on seperate text files while the third runs a different program, wasn't sure if I had to manually open terminal and then run the program manually [03:37] CassandraKos - sudo apt-get install terminator [03:37] ok CassandraKos what is the question you have? [03:37] ctrl-e and ctrl-o will split the current window horizontal/verticle [03:37] -cle +cal [03:38] rather shift-ctrl-e/o [03:38] TJ_D: you need to script something to do what you want [03:38] TJ_D: i am not much of a scripter so sorry i cant help [03:38] Yeah that's what I figured, it's feasible though? [03:38] TJ_D: yes it is [03:38] Mkay so I just need to find someone who can point me in the direction of how to script it then >.> Because I'm not much of one either heh. [03:39] TJ_D: do you have an account on the ubuntu forums? [03:39] TJ_D: i would suggest heading to the developing forum to see if some of them smart folks there can through a template together for ya or something [03:45] TJ_D: I'm a BASH scripter, can you describe exactly what you want done? [03:45] TJ_D: perfect..there you go [03:46] aveilleux: heres the jist of it: op wants to startup computer, at login they want three terminal windows to open up, 2 running command: tail -f , and the third another program [03:46] stlsaint: I have so many question, so few answers, but I think dolphin may give me an avenue to explore [03:47] TJ_D, That's easy. I assume you're on Ubuntu (base)? [03:48] CassandraKos: as far as the more resource heavy desktop environments, kde is my fav after gnome :D [03:51] but i still think operating at cli will end up suiting me best, as an old cp/m and dos user [03:51] CassandraKos: you can still work all from cli with a gui installed [03:51] (Confesses) I am a total control freak and like to only run what I want, not what someone thinks I may want or need ... [03:52] it is all that hidden stuff, obscured from view that happens that freaks me out [03:52] CassandraKos: heck i use irssi! I am quite fond of terminal :D [03:52] Did I mention that I am a nephyte LFS user ... [03:52] i use terminator/quake/terminal :D [03:56] aveilleux: More directly what I'm trying to do is be able to open at my leisure a program or something that will open up Terminator Terminal where I can view multiple terminal command lines on one screen split up horizontal/vertical, with three windows total, two running tail and one running another program [03:58] aveilleux: run one command in terminal1 and have it sync and span across other terminals specified [03:59] TJ_D: Again, you're running Ubuntu? As opposed to K/X/Fluxbuntu. [04:00] aveilleux: fluxbuntu...nice, havent heard that in some time :) [04:00] stlsaint: Fluxbox is quickly becoming my preferred DE [04:00] Yes, 10.04 [04:00] Kinda new to the cool club, been a slave to Mr.Gates for a long time just happily pretending that WIndows was doing what I wanted it to [04:01] aveilleux: oh yea, i run it on two installs, my fav on the low resource end out of all other DE's [04:01] aveilleux: i know the fluxbox debian maintainer :D [04:02] Also totally random but if I want to connect to this chat from my IM client how do I connect? Normally I just enter http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-beginners# into browser [04:03] TJ_D: install a irc client, ubuntu comes default with xchat [04:03] TJ_D: that way no need to work out of browser [04:04] I use empathy [04:04] just not sure what to enter in connection infos [04:05] TJ_D: the server is freenode and the channel #ubuntu-beginners [04:08] Test [04:08] renshai: Yes? [04:08] Sorry that's me, was logging in from another client [04:11] renshai: I don't know enough about Terminator to really help you, but I'm sure there are command-line flags that can have it start in the mode you want [04:21] hi [04:25] AbhiJit: just a little note: Saying hi in every channel you join is generaly discouraged [04:26] zkriesse, oh ok [04:26] AbhiJit: but anyway...how's things? [04:27] zkriesse, yah busy in college minii project! :) [04:40] Hi again all - looking more into my problem with figuring out how to setup gnome terminator terminal how I want it, maybe it's just my newbieness in regards to terminal/cli in the first place. [04:41] Reading this: http://www.tenshu.net/wp-content/uploads/terminator_config.html - it seems like it should be a pretty simple thing to have this program load up like. A profile or initial configuration file with the setup I'd like [04:41] But I just dont understand enough of what it's saying to whip it together >.> [05:16] Anyone awake familiar with gnome terminator terminal at all? === JoeMaverickSett is now known as Guest26266 [06:13] Hi [07:11] hello? [07:11] Hi there [07:12] *sigh* ubuntu is nice.... [07:12] isn't it [07:12] i'm glad i switched, no more winbloz [07:14] congratulate mccrase - a new install after a shaky start [07:17] renshai: I am installin Terminator now, will be up to speed in about an hour [07:17] I've learned a good deal on my own I can help with [07:18] There is some support for saving layouts and firing an initial command upon running the program in each terminal [07:18] there you go - we all help each other and we learn together [07:18] I need a better manual than the MAN pages for this one, too! [07:18] So you can save a shortcut to it that loads your layouts, which you can setup to run a program/open a file/whatever in each terminal [07:19] advise you to do 'terminator -h' when you first install it [07:19] sounds like terminator is a better teminal [07:19] then after you run right click in the main terminal and select preferences, from there you can config everything as much or more than normal gnome terminal [07:19] it is still downloading - my connection is being shared too many ways [07:20] It's funny right as you said that I had just had my breakthrough in figuring the program out, heh. [07:20] but I expect -h is much as its info or man page? [07:20] no it's just a list of the commands you can modify startup with [07:20] I know what that is like [07:20] ah [07:20] most notable being 'terminator --layout=(layouts name)' [07:21] After you setup your preferences and such [07:21] that will make sense when i have finished its intall, no doubt [07:22] been using the default terminal in gname and not happy about all of what I can do that way yet [07:22] Sure, let me know if you have questions and I'll try to help, it wasn't all that intuitive to pickup but I'm new to CLI intensive work so I assumed that'd happen [07:22] This is very similar to gnome terminal really, just with a few features added [07:22] cli is old hat to me, but I am still a Linux newbie [07:24] at least terminator was available from one of my souces.list [07:24] Yet to figure out how to get it to save my resizing of terminals, but it opens them all in the proper place and with th e proper program running, so I can live with resizing by hand for now [07:24] that is a good start [07:25] thank goodness for the whole X windows system, god bless the developers of that, whoever they are (or were) [07:25] renshai: Does Terminator support --geometry like gnome-terminal does? [07:26] seems to think it does, according to the webpage I'm reading [07:26] Yeah think so [07:26] Yes, but not sure how to specify which terminal I'm resizing, more looks to resize the initial window [07:27] renshai: You want more than one terminal? Then run something like terminator --whateverflags & terminator--whateverotherflags & and so on [07:28] No, terminator allows you to view multiple terminals on one screen [07:28] renshai: I seem to recall something like... opening two terminal windows, one with two panels? I have poor recall skills [07:28] divided up horizontal or vertical and resized at will [07:28] renshai: Shouldn't all of the terminals resize to fit the window...? [07:29] renshai: Oh, you want to change the size of the panels, not the size of the whole window. [07:29] right [07:29] sorry if I was unclear [07:29] Have trouble vocalizing what I'm thinking sometimes [07:31] hmm, it has an option to run a custom command when it creates each terminal panel, wonder if I can configure it to resize AND run the programs I need somehow [07:31] Right now it's setup to run the programs I call on [07:32] renshai ; this looks good, something to play with when I'm bored [07:33] renshai: You can call multiple commands on the same line with the &&, eg command1 && command2 [07:33] Yeah looking for a command to resize now [08:14] anyone got any idea why my USB hdd is invisible to the hal? [08:37] CassandraKos, erm, not sure. did you try lsusb in a terminal to see if it is listed there? [08:37] * seidos grabs his flash drive [08:40] CassandraKos, yeah, if it's not listed in lsusb you might want to check that it is plugged in properly. [08:46] seidos: I am sure i am plugging the drives in correctly, as one drive out of them works, but the other three do not. [08:47] however, the three that will not work on this (ubuntu) system work on the other (kubuntuu/xubuntu) system, which is weird [08:48] CassandraKos, if it's not showing up in lsusb, then it might as well be unplugged according to the system O_o. at any rate, lsusb is where i would start out. [08:48] thanks [08:49] it is where I started, but all it says is that i have nothing attached [08:50] not to worry - this is not a critical issue [08:51] however, while i have been here, my computer has thrown away two drives worth of data and now i am in trouble for sure [08:52] what version of ubuntu are you using? [08:52] maybe there's a bug in launchpad [08:52] hardy [08:53] there is something very strange going on in my system [08:53] oh, your question is more specific than i thought [08:53] you looked up? [08:53] a directory has just emptied itself [08:54] you said it is invisible to the hal. i'm not even certain that usb devices go through the hal first. [08:54] ah, the USB, no, I don't think it does, just the port is visible, mores the pity [08:55] I spent ages trying to find it in hal before i worked out that it will never be there [08:55] the joy of being a newbie [08:56] well, i had trouble with my usb flash drive not showing up in lsusb. it is intermittent though. what you are describing is different. [08:56] but i think I just broke my system by installing dolphin, which is a bigger problem than just not being able to do backups [08:56] i think you are more knowledgeable than i am. [08:56] my flash drives show up in lsusb, but not my imation 500Gb [08:56] sounds like you've done your research [08:57] I try [08:57] but I am not knowledgeable, as i think i just killed my filemanager [08:58] well, it could be a bug with your configuration. [08:58] knowledge is relative. [08:58] I think it is, but how to find it is another issue! [08:59] I have been suspecting nautilus, but since i was not using it when the files went away, it is looking less like the culprit [08:59] well, i'm not really sure what you've tried, or what you are doing. [08:59] I am going to remove the whole flipping GUI and see if that helps [08:59] I may be gone a while [09:00] you could just boot up, don't log in to the gui, then open a tty using alt-f1 [09:01] the gui starts without my help - there may be a cli login somewhere ... but I dunno where [09:03] there's the login window. i guess it's a gui, but i know it doesn't load gnome unless you login. [09:04] your best bet actually would be to try a different linux kernel i think. assuming your usb hd works on other systems. [09:04] same linux kernel on the other machines you tried it on? [09:05] doubt it [09:05] Ausu are pretty close-mouthed on that system and the terminal window is so small, I can't read the print [09:06] well, you can check what linux kernel the other systems are using if you want. [09:06] seidor: I don't get a login window, but I think i can fix that [09:07] !tab | CassandraKos [09:07] CassandraKos: You can use your key for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line. [09:08] that's clever [09:09] what i know about irc could be written on an aspirin with a housebrick with room to sign your name [09:09] been using tab at cli and it is useful [09:09] yeah, i don't know much about irc either. [09:10] meanwhile, this filesystem error I have takes priority over the USB issue. I now have three of four drives that are pretending to be empty, but if I restart the computer, some of the directories and files will return, but not all. This is a big problem, as it means my system is no longer reliable. [09:10] i don't really know what the situation is. but if i can help, i will. if nothing else i can try to provide moral support [09:10] it as all fine until I tried to upgrade from 8.04 to 10.04 [09:10] there there [09:10] * seidos pats CassandraKos [09:11] O_o [09:11] ta - feels soothed [09:11] 10.04 huh? [09:11] wish I'd never heard of it [09:11] hate that update manager programme [09:11] a 10.04 cd wouldn't work on my notebook [09:12] that was the case with someone else earlier, but 8.04 installed and all he's having is wifi issues now [09:13] yeah, ubuntu didn't get a module for my wireless chipset until 9.04 i think it was. at least, as far as i know. [09:13] i didn't really get how modules worked in ubuntu at the time, so didn't think to try modprobe ath5k [09:13] i don't think the ath5k module was on my system at the time though [09:13] anyway, after the upgrade failed, I restarted and the fs was dead, so I ended up reinstalling 8.04, but the damage has been done to my data drives and i cannot work out how to fix them [09:14] my friend has tired installing some athethos drivers, but he got sleepy and stopped before he got it going [09:14] oh, so there is corruption on your hard disks. you already installed 8.04 over your previous installation? [09:14] tried [09:14] yes and no [09:15] my OS lives on one drive and my data on others [09:15] I installed 8.04 as a clean install [09:16] then added the ubuntu-desktop [09:16] but something weird is happening on my data drives [09:17] and I can't make back-ups because I can't get my DVD writer to work or plug in my big USB drives. [09:17] I keep crying, but that doesn't help at all [09:17] is the system with the problem connected to the internet? [09:17] computers are unmoved by tears [09:18] this is the system with the problem [09:19] I think my directory files are being corrupted, but I do not know how or why [09:19] why don't you try transferring the data over the network? [09:19] in order to backup [09:20] because we are talking about two terabytes of data [09:20] maybe your syslog will have some clues [09:20] it would take about two weeks to back up [09:20] maybe - syslog, eh? I'll see if I can find it [09:21] well, it should take 44 hours over 100 megabit network [09:22] just install apache and the system that is messed up [09:22] on too [09:22] then download over lan? [09:23] but where would it go? I can't be paying someone to keep all my data for me, and have to dl it when i want to use it [09:23] I have heard of apache, but have no idea what it is [09:23] the point is, though, that directories should not empty themselves anyway [09:23] i thought you said you had extra computers [09:24] oh i agree with you, i'm just concerned about your data [09:24] plenty - but only one internet connection [09:24] plus, i have no idea what might be causing it [09:24] it's such a strange problem, i thought you might have been cracked [09:25] probably not though [09:25] that is where i am, too, but i figure, if I start out with a minimal system, maybe i can track what happens [09:25] well, you did a reinstall already and that didn't fix it [09:25] I think it is the journaling nature of ext3 at the heart of the issue [09:25] but did the problem happen before you upgraded? [09:26] I think it may have happened once before, and i did not notice it [09:26] i doubt it's caused by the "journaling nature of ext3" [09:26] but it may have never happened before my aborted upgrade attempt [09:27] ah, it was an aborted upgrade attempt now. [09:27] fair enough - it should not be, but i had this idea that the directory file may be not being written before the system does something else and journaling is an overhead on the fs [09:28] the upgrade failed and my system froze, I left it alone for three days, in case it sorted itself out, then took away its power and restarted it - I think you'd call that an abotive attempt at an upgrade [09:29] i think that would be called a failed upgrade attempt [09:29] fair enough [09:30] I would call it failed if it said so, but aborted if you had to restart the system [09:30] but that is just semantics [09:32] not sure. [09:32] i just heard that ext3 is part of the kernel. [09:32] no [09:32] what did /var/log have to say? [09:32] oh, that isn't true? [09:33] ext3 is a system like JFS, ext2, NTFS or FAT32/16 [09:34] ah, the log, I haven't read it yet, have to less it [09:35] backing up your data should take priority. do you have another computer on your lan? [09:35] it is still scrolling after I cat-ed it [09:35] have no lan atm [09:36] oh, try vim or gedit to read the logs? [09:36] I agree, I want to backup before i do anything else [09:36] will try gedit [09:36] well, not sure how to get your usb drive working. i'm really out of ideas. oh! do you have other linux kernels available when you boot up? [09:36] from grub? [09:37] dang 2TB of data. that's a lot. [09:38] don't hink there are other kernels installed - used to get a menu with one distro (Mepis?) and pick one, but don't get that option these days [09:38] i can only imagine what you have on there. [09:38] that 2Tb is what is left after some vanished ... [09:38] you're using multiple distros? [09:38] all my stargate sg1 files are missing in action and half my doctor whos [09:39] only one distro at a time one any system [09:39] I have documentaries and films, comedies and scifi files [09:40] but no access to tlevision [09:40] my computer is my media provide [09:40] same here. [09:40] i'm reading about mepis. thanks. [09:41] mepis is alright, but I could not get it to run samba successfully [09:42] why did you want samba? you had windows clients accessing your system? [09:42] btw, haven't found anything in launchpad [09:42] one xp system [09:43] haven't found a need for samba. [09:43] me too - have been trawling launchpad about my fs issues for several weeks now [09:43] but i don't have anything to share. i just share stuff on bit torrent [09:43] several weeks! [09:43] do not need filesharing atm as the router power adapter broke a year ago in a thunderstorm [09:44] oh! fsck. i'm sure you tried this already :/ [09:45] fsck only wants to look at my smallest drive, I think [09:45] i should've thought of this earlier...but that doesn't solve the usb drive problem, unless it isn't connecting because of the corruption on your drive. is the corruption you are noticing occurring on the drive with the os installed? [09:46] no, the one reliable drive is the os one - it is an ancient 6Gb IDE drive that is fine [09:47] I just tried fsck again, and it did it again - told me it can't run, an error about being unable to resolve a UUID [09:47] how did you run it? [09:47] I had forgotten what it said last time, but this was it [09:47] i'm reading the man page :/ [09:47] in a terminal window - maybe I should be root to run it [09:47] I'll try that [09:49] ah - it likes me as root - but it want me to umount my filesystem first? how do you do that if you're running fsck from within the filesystem [09:49] that's why i'm reading the man page :/ [09:49] good luck - I read that one and it was all greek to me [09:51] well, if your drive is a data drive only, you should be able to unmount it without a problem [09:51] while your system is logged in [09:51] but you'll want to specify the data filesystem [09:52] right - I need to issue parameters to fsck so it addresses the right drive/s [09:52] should be /dev/sdb-something-something [09:52] O_o [09:52] that's why i was asking how you were executing fsck [09:52] I can do that. Which of them to try first? I think the least critical, with the incomplete files. [09:52] ah! i could try on my usb flash drive [09:53] was a good question [09:53] you could [09:53] you shouldn't give up on reading the man page [09:53] it's good times [09:53] wooooo man pages! [09:54] I want a better man page reader than opening them in termianl [09:54] really? [09:54] sometimes I want to see two at once and couldn't manage that [09:54] oh [09:54] you can use screen...i just open multiple terminal windows [09:54] maybe thiis terminator programme will let me do that [09:55] i think duanedesign is working on a tabbed terminal...or something. [09:55] haven't tried terminator, someone was mentioning it earlier. [09:55] do you have to compile it? [09:55] even so, the pages are still a bit beyond me sometimes [09:55] no - just apt-get it [09:55] i find that hard to believe [09:56] well, they're beyond me also, but that's the point of reading i guess [09:56] yes, but a human being can help you find the command you need and you'd have to read and remember all the man pages for that [09:57] I want to be able to search the text of the man pages for terms of interest [09:57] whoa, cool [09:57] terminator has tabs. thanks [09:57] I could probbly grep the data, if i could get the hang of grepping [09:58] i suck at grepping. i also forgot where the search string goes, either before or after the file(s) i am grepping through [09:58] thank sfsaint (or something like that) who told me about it [09:58] stlsaint [09:58] thassit [09:59] think it was that one - talked to lots of folk today [09:59]