=== kdrsx is now known as kuadrosx [03:16] hey guys, is there are any way to get the app dev week stuff I'm going to miss this week? I've got a totally loaded week but there's some stuff I wouldn't (but have) to miss. Thanks! [03:18] Avo, there are IRC logs [03:19] And would that have all the important info? [03:19] everything is happening on #ubuntu-classroom or #ubuntu-classroom-chat [03:20] Ah cool, cool. That's what I'll do then. Thanks!! [03:20] you can find logs here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ === uchobby is now known as uchobby_afk [05:22] hello === vorian is now known as v === v is now known as theMaster === theMaster is now known as v [05:35] join #ubuntu [05:37] can someone tell me how to protect ubuntu wiki pages from editing ? === purvesh__ is now known as purvesh === purvesh_ is now known as purvesh [15:53] 7 minutes until we start! [15:59] Hello [16:00] Hi everyone [16:00] welcome to day #2 of ubuntu application developer week! [16:00] Hi! [16:00] I hope everyone has had a good time so far [16:00] ok, so from now on please move all discussion to #ubuntu-classroom-chat [16:00] so that the speaker can present in here === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu App Developer Week - Current Session: From vision to an Ubuntu application in 4 simple steps - Instructors: didrocks [16:01] first up today we have Didier Rocks, aka, didrocks [16:01] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/28/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [16:01] 4 steps to an ubuntu application [16:01] didrocks, ready? [16:01] jcastro: yeah o/ [16:01] thanks jcastro! [16:01] welcome everyone :) [16:02] can you raise your hands on #ubuntu-classroom-chat so that I can know how many people we have there? === PedoBear is now known as lol_bear [16:02] good, a lot of people there! [16:03] welcome to the session on "4 steps to develop your application for ubuntu" [16:03] this session will be mostly a basic presentation of Quickly, which is the application we started to develop one year and half ago for developping applications in ubuntu [16:04] do you know about Quickly?, please answer in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [16:04] (that will enable me to know what's the audience is :)) [16:05] ok, some people know about it, others don't :-) this session is really on basics of Quickly, let's start on it [16:05] so, some quick words of presentation first [16:05] my name is Didier Roche, I'm working in the ubuntu desktop team on updating GNOME and UNE (Ubuntu Netbook Edition) [16:05] I'm maintaining unity, that some of you probably heard of [16:05] also, as a spare time project with Rick Spencer, I'm hacking on Quickly [16:06] so, what is Quickly? [16:06] Quickly is to bring back fun in development! [16:06] Rick, the person who created the concept of Quickly, call it, among other things, an "Application Templating System" [16:07] the essence of the project is to provide you boiler plate for the kind of program you want to write [16:07] the boiler plate is the code that you would have to write for every program of a certain type gets generated for you [16:07] we have different boiler plates right now: [16:07] ubuntu-application, ubuntu-cli and ubuntu-pygame in lucid and maverick [16:07] some people seem to create new boiler plate, like vala and such [16:08] but Quickly is also a set of commands [16:08] the commands are designed to integrate with the Ubuntu Application infrastructure [16:08] things like bzr, launchpad, PPAs, etc.. [16:08] those are something hard to learn when you just want to develop for fun [16:09] and you have a lot to look at too [16:09] the commands are what make all that work for you! [16:09] The moto of Quickly is "Easy and Fun" [16:09] while I'll answer to the first set of questions, you can install it (not mandatory to follow the session): sudo apt-get install quickly [16:09] doktor777 asked: do you know any popular app developed with quickly? [16:10] some applications on ubuntu are using Quickly [16:10] like bughugger, pytask, lernid [16:10] (maybe some of you are using lernid to follow the session btw) [16:10] there are others apps like photobomb and such that are develop with Quickly [16:11] you can find them at http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/ [16:11] but Quickly isn't made to create huge applications, it's more for what most of 1 person team will do [16:12] so, it fits most of the needs we can have, I guess [16:12] Kruptein asked: so is quicly a programing language on it self or does it use an other language? [16:12] Quickly is a set of templates and commands [16:12] that means, the templates contains the code [16:13] I'll discuss about that later on, but the templates I presented before are made of python [16:13] but there is a incoming vala template [16:13] and theorically template (and commands) can from every languages you want [16:13] hernejj asked: Does quickly help with packaging as well? [16:13] yeah, and this is the goodness :) [16:14] in one command, you can create a release, get a package, uploading the tarball to launchpad, create a milestone, get a changelog and push your project in your ppa [16:14] no need to harrass to create the package manually [16:14] or to file the dependencies :) [16:14] doktor777 asked: how stable/mature it is? [16:14] Quickly has been launched in may 2009 [16:15] so, it's more or less one year and half [16:15] it's quite mature, contains a lot of code [16:15] and we handle upgrade and such of your project [16:15] zinga24 asked: what templates does it deliver? gui-templates? [16:15] so, with Quickly, on ubuntu, you have 3 templates: [16:15] ubuntu-application: is a template creating a gui application [16:16] (I'll present it in more extends later on) [16:16] ubuntu-cli is for command line application [16:16] and ubuntu-pygame for small and fun games using pygame [16:16] you can hav some examples on the link pasted before [16:16] Kruptein asked: so can I pack my python programs in quickly to generate the packages only? [16:16] right, and some people did that as far as I know of [16:17] you just have to create some files like a .quickly file as root with some parameters [16:17] we can help you with that if you jump to #quickly on freenode [16:17] doktor777 asked: what do you mean by "and we handle upgrade and such of your project" ? [16:17] for instance, in Quickly 0.4, we introduced apport support [16:18] and launchpad integration as well you know, the "ask a question/report a bug" in the help menu of default ubuntu application? [16:18] we thought it would be good for application which were created with Quickly 0.2 to get those 2 things on upgrade [16:18] and so, it's optionnaly added to people upgrading [16:18] that's what I meant by on "upgrade" [16:19] ok, no more question in the queue [16:19] let's continue then :) [16:19] so, first, what *is not* Quickly [16:19] Quickly is not an IDE [16:19] but you can use whatever IDE you want [16:20] it's a command line tool and there is some API for people wanting to bind it to an IDE [16:20] So, the title of the classroom was "4 steps to create your application" [16:20] let's begin for step 0, before the first one :) [16:20] think what you want to achieve with your application [16:21] try to not NIH (Not Invented Here) and reinventing the whell [16:21] why people want to install and then use your futur application instead of existing one? [16:21] so design is the most important step in my opinion :) [16:22] and no rush to step 1 until then! [16:22] step 1 is creating your application [16:22] which Quickly, it's fairly easy [16:22] $ quickly create ubuntu-application foo [16:22] this will create a "foo" ubuntu-application in a "foo" directory [16:23] you will have all what's needed with an application, like: [16:23] preferences integrations, menus, about box, easter eggs :) [16:23] so, quickly create launch your application and you can see the boiler plate [16:24] of course, you have all internationalization support and some icon/desktop file as well for people wanting to use it [16:24] the most important part is that there is no dependency on Quickly itself for your application [16:25] all is based on well known technology, but your application is then independent (in other words, Quickly isn't a framework) [16:25] and that's by design [16:25] so, for people running it during the session, you can see in the folder a lot of files have been created for you [16:26] in the ubuntu-application template, you have: [16:26] - python as a language to develop in [16:26] - glade for editing the GUI [16:26] - gedit as default editor (you can override this by exporting the EDITOR variable) [16:26] - pygtk for the toolkit [16:26] - desktopcouch for storing persistent data [16:26] - launchpad integration [16:26] all is chosen for helping you starting with your app [16:27] - (and bzr for revision control) [16:27] then, if you are confident enough and know what you need, you can remove each block you don't want and replace by yours [16:27] or create your own template even! [16:27] the idea is really to drive development and help opportunistic developer to know "where to start" [16:27] rather than beeing lost in choices [16:27] for helping starting development too, we have a complete tutorial: [16:27] $ cd foo/ [16:28] $ quickly tutorial [16:28] this will bring you up the tutorial for the ubuntu-application template [16:28] Quickly has a lot of shell completion goodness [16:29] depending on where you are, it will suggest the right command on the right time [16:29] so, do not hesitate to press tab tab :) [16:29] also I heard that an "ubuntu developer manual" is on the way :) [16:29] this one will use Quickly as well and will be a good documentation reference [16:30] let's see to some questions before moving to step 2 :) [16:30] doktor777 asked: and how do you upgrade, there's a command for that? [16:30] $ quickly upgrade [16:30] but it's launched for your each time Quickly is upgraded on your system and your application isn't transitionned [16:30] so nothing to worry about :) [16:31] gaberlunzie44 asked: does quickly templates accept user input to customise/personalise apps? [16:31] sure, once the application created, it's yours! [16:31] so, as I said, you can customize every part of it [16:31] and there is no dep on Quickly, you can use qt instead of gtk for instance :) [16:31] blackrock asked: Can I use git instead of bzr? [16:31] ah, the traditional questions :) [16:32] well, git isn't integrated to launchpad as well as bzr [16:32] and a lot of people are telling "I want to use git with Quickly" [16:32] well, you can create a ubuntu-git-application template :) [16:32] and change the commands to use git [16:32] but you will surely loose a lot of integration I'll explain afterwards [16:33] and ideally, if you only use Quickly, you don't need to know which versionning system is used for you [16:33] (for instance, you don't bzr commit, but you quickly save) [16:33] doktor777 asked: hmm, I'd prefer to launch a command myself, can the auto-upgrade be easily disabled? [16:34] no, but you can create a template which doesn't have upgrade [16:34] we changed the format sometimes and we bzr commit before and after the upgrade [16:34] so you still can revert [16:34] ok, no more question, let's move on step 2 then! [16:34] once you know what you want to do [16:35] and how to do it (the tutorial), with some base (the app you created), it's time to personalize your application [16:35] this can be done with: [16:35] $ quickly design [16:36] this commands fires up glade to edit your user interface [16:36] glade is a tool for building gtk-based UI [16:36] (old screenshot of it: http://glade.gnome.org/images/glade-main-page.png) [16:36] so, you can there add widgets [16:36] change your window size [16:36] labels and such [16:36] you choose your components and draw them on the application area [16:36] the quickly tutorial explains the basic of this [16:37] in fact, Glade is a UI editing tool, that creates the XML you need to describe your windows and widgets [16:37] don't worry because the quickly template totally handles keeping the code and the XML hooked up [16:37] if others templates, like if kubuntu comes, we assume it won't use glade, obviously :) [16:37] hence the "design" command to launch it and not "glade" [16:37] so here are some tips for using Glade if you are new to Glade [16:38] first, adding widgets works like a fill tool [16:38] you click the widget you want in the toolbox, and then click where you want it to be on the window [16:38] the widgets will then fill the space alloted to it [16:38] to layout the form, you use HBoxes and VBoxes [16:38] an HBox handles Horizontal layout, and a VBox handles vertical [16:38] so you will find yourself putting lots of boxes within boxes [16:38] when you add a widget to a window, you can select it in the "inspector" tree if it is hard to select in the window itself' [16:39] boxes can be hard to select in the window, for example [16:39] if a widget is in a box, use the position property in the "Property editor" window in the "packing" tab to change the order [16:39] you can also add new dialogs with Quickly: [16:39] 1. close glade [16:39] 2. run: quickly add dialog [16:39] 3. quickly design [16:39] and you will see the new dialog opened for you in glade :) [16:40] then, once you have done that, you want to create some kind to use your new widgets and dialogs [16:40] for that: [16:40] quickly edit [16:40] it will fire up gedit in the ubuntu-application template (and derivatives) [16:41] it will configure it to use spaces instead of tabs and spaces to behave like tabs [16:41] it opens every files you need to work with [16:41] so, that's where the hard work should take place :) [16:41] but don't take that too hard and test regularly which will be our step 3 after I answer some questions [16:42] as told previously, you can take some snapshot of your code with: [16:42] $ quickly save [16:42] or even: [16:42] $ quickly save implement a fantastic dialog to make cow to moooo [16:42] if you want to give a reason of what you have done :) [16:42] blackrock asked: How do you create new template (like ubuntu-cli, ubuntu-application)? [16:42] really easy [16:43] ubuntu-cli and ubuntu-pygame are basically 0 line of code! [16:43] yeah, 0 :) [16:43] the commands are the same that in ubuntu-application [16:43] we just ship a different boiler plate [16:43] for that, Quickly support inheritance [16:43] which means "imports commands from" [16:43] so, ubuntu-cli imports all commands from ubuntu-application [16:44] if you want to create your own template, you can start by an existing one [16:44] like [16:44] $ quickly quickly ubuntu-application my-new-template [16:44] and it will create my-new-template in ~/quickly-templates, importing by default all commands from ubuntu-application [16:44] you can also create your own template in /quickly-templates [16:44] ~/quickly-templates, [16:45] I've documented that in my blog, which is down right now as I'm moving, sorry :) [16:45] but for further reference: [16:45] http://blog.didrocks.fr [16:45] (once up again) [16:45] ozalexo asked: Why XML? And why not YAML? [16:45] ask that to glade people :) [16:46] Kruptein asked: I'm using wxPython and have actually already created my project in python, why would/should I use quickly? or should I better stay with what I have right now [16:46] well, let's see the packaging part and we will discuss that :) [16:46] so, quickly on step 3 :) [16:46] which is testing! [16:46] to run your application from trunk [16:46] quickly run [16:46] this will enables your, taking all the right paths for you, to test it extensivily [16:47] if you want some people to test it, you can share a small first package with them [16:47] quickly share [16:47] it will upload to your ppa a packaged snapshot of your application [16:47] and so, people can test [16:47] quickly debug [16:47] is for debugging your application in winpdb [16:47] ok, so, now, the step your are all expected is release! [16:48] when you really want everyone to see your apps in a shiny stable version! [16:48] we took days and days to think about the name and the command to use :) [16:48] and finally, we ended up with: [16:48] quickly release [16:48] :) [16:48] this commands does a lot for you [16:49] it's packaging your application, changing some path for you to use system libraries (if present) [16:49] it detects all the dependencies needed [16:49] and put that into the package [16:49] it will create a gpg key for you if you don't have one on launchpad [16:49] same for ssh key [16:49] it's pushing your code in the trunk in launchpad, tagging it as stable [16:50] also, it detects all the ppa you have access too and push to it [16:50] also, it collects all messages you put in quickly save, and create an annoucement with that [16:50] publish through launchpad rss feed [16:50] also, it takes your upstream tarball, sign it with the gpg key, create the launchpad milestone and attaching everything for you [16:51] and finally, it exports the translations for you to launchpad so that people can translate your application [16:51] (in next version, it will import them for you as well :)) [16:51] *phew* just that for one shiny little command :) [16:51] the release command just use the ubuntu way of creating version [16:52] like YY.MM [16:52] so, if you release this month [16:52] it will be 10.10 [16:52] oupss [16:52] 10.09 [16:52] (living in futur, it seems :)) [16:52] if you release again tomorrow, it will be 10.09.1 [16:52] and so on… [16:52] ok, seeing a lot of questions, let's go back to them [16:53] ozalexo asked: can I just create a deb package without putting it to launchpad? [16:53] and the answer is… yes! [16:53] quickly package :) [16:53] this will create a .deb that you can install locally [16:53] gabri_biolab asked: I've allready developed a project in C++ Qt ITK VTK as external libraries, is there a way to easy move my existing project to quickly? [16:53] current templates are made of python [16:54] but we just count on people to extend and create new templates! [16:54] the core (the part common to templates) is in python, but templates and commands can be in whatever language of your wish [16:54] louis-nb asked: why is postfix a dependency? [16:54] ahah, good one! [16:55] (this is in Quickly itself, not in your applications) [16:55] well, Quickly is pulling a lot of developers tools for you [16:55] to be able to create a package and such [16:55] one of them in ubuntu-dev-tools [16:55] which has a lot of deps [16:55] and one of those deps (devscripts if I remember correctly) is depending on postfix [16:55] that's something I want to fix [16:56] patch devscripts in ubuntu and debian [16:56] to make postfix optional [16:56] but it's taking time! [16:56] I've already had a look some months ago [16:56] but being sidetrack :) [16:56] Kruptein asked: you said: it will push to every ppa you have access too, but why would I want to push "foo" to "bar" if I have both access to "foo" and "bar" which do not have to do anything with eachother [16:56] by default, it's picking the older one [16:57] but you have commands to configure that [16:57] already a complicated command name [16:57] quickly configure [16:57] so [16:57] quickly configure ppa my-ppa-name [16:57] (use tab completion, you will see what you can configure with) [16:57] quickly configure [16:57] in bahs [16:57] bash* [16:58] also, think about the help on commands [16:58] quickly help [16:58] will bring you the correct command help depending on the context [16:58] to see you command you can have help… [16:58] shell completion again! quickly help [16:58] ok, let's quickly wrapping up [16:59] so, for references: [16:59] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly#Other Resources [16:59] you can see we got some press review, this is not exhaustive [16:59] we also welcome everyone on #quickly on freenode :) [17:00] and welcome contributions, a lot of people are contributing to quickly as well as in quickly-widgets === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu App Developer Week - Current Session: SHOWCASE: Pytask - Instructors: nisshh [17:00] (the latter is definitively a project you should look at) [17:00] yeah, just in time! [17:00] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/28/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [17:00] thanks everyone [17:01] thanks didrocks! [17:01] nisshh, you're up! [17:01] yep [17:01] ok, hello everyone! [17:01] my name is Ryan Macnish, and this session is about my app called Pytask [17:02] which is created and maintained with Quickly [17:02] can i get a show of hands to see who is here right now? [17:02] in -chat of course :) [17:02] ok, looks like a fair few [17:03] right [17:03] i created Pytask way back in the middle of last year [17:04] i wanted to get going with Python and GTK back then, and Pytask was the first thing that came into my head [17:04] link to Pytask on launchpad: https://launchpad.net/pytask [17:05] back when i first started the project, i was writing it in pure GTK [17:05] sorry pure pyGTK [17:06] TobiS asked: Do you have a website of your project with some information? [17:06] see my link to the project page on launchpad above [17:07] sometime later that year, i discovered glade, so i started using that to develop the GUI [17:07] fastforward to about march this year [17:07] and thats when i discovered the hidden gem that was Quickly [17:08] but anyway, thats enough story :) [17:09] basically, Pytask uses a combination of Quickly, Quickly-Widgets (which ill talk about in a sec) and CouchDB [17:09] Currently Pytask is such a simple application [17:10] it consists of just the Quickly generated code, plus less than 100 lines of code that i added in [17:10] thats right, LESS than 100 lines of code [17:11] it was possible to do this because i used Quickly and Quickly-Widgets [17:12] Quickly-Widgets is basically a convenience [17:12] it makes it much, much easier to create and modify certain widgets [17:13] such as Treeviews, Couchgrids (which i will talk about in a sec), and popup yes/no/ok dialogs [17:14] before i continue are there any more questions? [17:14] no? [17:14] ok [17:15] moving on, now ill talk about Couchgrid :) [17:15] Couchgrid in quickly-widgets is really awesome [17:16] with Pytask, it basically allowed me to do 3 things very, very easily: [17:16] 1) create and show an editable treeview [17:16] 2) easily modify the contents and arrangement of that treeview [17:17] 3) sync the tasks in the treeview with Ubuntu One [17:17] oh [17:17] for those of you who dont know, Pytask is a todo list management app [17:17] similar to Getting Things Gnome [17:19] number 3 is especially cool, since it allows me to sync tasks with Ubuntu One, with just a few lines of code :) [17:19] gaberlunzie44 asked: what quickly commands are used for widgets and db connectivity? [17:19] very good question [17:19] for the db connectivity, there are no quickly commands [17:20] i simply had to import quickly widgets into my Pytask code [17:20] and create the db itself, plus some keys [17:21] currently, the only release of Pytask that can Sync with Ubuntu One is 10.06.1 [17:21] (the latest one) [17:22] there is one little quirk though [17:23] originally, Rick Spencer named quickly-widgets Quidgets [17:23] so on launchpad, the project is Quidgets [17:23] but in lucid and maverick [17:23] the package is called quickly-widgets [17:25] as an added bonus of Pytask using quickly-widgets, i have worked with Rick Spencer to iron out many bugs from quickly-widgets, just for you guys :) [17:25] now, CouchDB :) [17:26] Couchgrid uses CouchDB to sync with Ubuntu one [17:26] and Couchgrid is included in quickly-widgets [17:27] couchDB makes it super simple to create, delete, edit, modify, etc [17:28] all your databases and database entries [17:28] gaberlunzie44 asked: link for quickly-widgets? (just to be complete) [17:28] https://launchpad.net/quidgets [17:28] thats quickly-widgets on launchpad [17:29] moving on [17:30] now, one awesome feature that i am working on for one of the upcoming releases of Pytask [17:30] is the ability to use tasks interchangeably between Pytask and Getting Things Gnome [17:30] this is made possible [17:31] because Getting Things Gnome has support for multiple backends [17:31] one of which is CouchDB [17:31] (the same one as Pytask uses) [17:32] so what will eventually be possible [17:32] is that you will be able to create your tasks in say, Getting Things Gnome, while using the CouchDB backend of course [17:33] then if you decide you like Pytask better, simply load it up, and force Pytask to use the same database as Getting Things Gnome [17:33] this isnt currently possible, even in trunk [17:33] but it will be very soon [17:34]