[01:10] <maco> omg im being fanboyed in #ubuntu
[01:11] <maco> IdleOne: *thwap*
[01:11] <IdleOne> Did I say something wrong?
[01:12] <IdleOne> All I said was that you are a Rock Star :)
[01:12] <maco> smartass
[01:12] <IdleOne> some people have a hard time with fame :P
[02:15] <elky> Here we go again?
[02:15] <elky> maco, /me points to -women
[04:01] <maco> i wish at beta time we could start switching the +1 factoid over to saying "not released as Stable, but testers are more than welcome" or something
[04:02] <maco> rather than having it be in SCARY MODE even as final ISOs of the stable thing are being spun
[04:04] <IdleOne> submit a edit to the factoid?
[04:26] <gartral> dangit, i cant keep getting kicked from #ubuntu just cause my connection is wonkey! i understand the need for security, but security should NEVER compromise ease-of-use! that's more Microsoft's thing, no?
[04:27] <maco> if microsoft compromised ease of use in favour of security, it wouldnt have its malware problem
[04:29] <gartral> maco: microsoft has a malware probblem becaue their tyrannical A$$^&*#S, keep in mind, there are viri and other malware that attack linux, it's just very few and far between
[04:31] <maco> very few and far between because our security model is better
[04:31] <maco> ANYWAY, i told you yesterday how to get on, why dont you just do that?
[04:31] <maco> irssi -c irc.freenode.net -p 8001
[04:35] <IdleOne> when exactly did you get kicked out?
[04:46] <IdleOne> aemaeth link in -ot leads to a graph of a pot leaf
[05:10] <gartral> this is getting rediculous
[05:16] <IdleOne> what is?
[05:17] <IdleOne> gartral:^^
[05:18] <gartral> my internet is hiccuping, causeing my registration to fail cause im ghosting, and i have to ghost-log my nick to get back into #ubuntu..
[05:18] <IdleOne> and how is that a #ubuntu issue?
[05:19] <IdleOne> gartral: #ubuntu-ops is for handling bans/kicks not to complain about your internet connection
[05:19] <maco> http://blog.expatsinksa.com/?p=43
[05:19] <IdleOne> Please part as you are not banned in #ubuntu as far as I can tell.
[05:20] <gartral> IdleOne: because i keep getting bounced to the unregged chanel. and no-one answered me there.
[05:20] <maco> gartral: check out that link
[05:20] <IdleOne> gartral: you get sent to -unregged because your client is identifying after it joins channels. Also not an Ubuntu issue
[05:21] <gartral> maco: i have a failing disk, my web browsers are all screwed up x.x
[05:23] <IdleOne> normally your client will wait 5 seconds to autojoin if there is a password set in the nickserv pass field. #irssi can tell you how to extend that time.
[05:23] <gartral> needless to say, my luck is ctd x.x
[05:24] <IdleOne> gartral: again, this is not the channel. you are able to join #ubuntu to get help. you can join #irssi to get help with irssi.
[05:24] <maco> gartral: can i pm you the commands to make auto-ghosting work?
[05:24] <gartral> maco: please!
[05:24] <IdleOne> ignoring me because I am not telling you what you want to hear is rude.
[05:25]  * gartral really needs to setup a bouncer >.>
[05:25] <IdleOne> you really need to part this channel
[05:25] <IdleOne> !idle
[05:25] <gartral> IdleOne: i'm not ignoring you, my friend, i'm just busy and running around like a chiken whose head was just lopped off
[05:26] <IdleOne> ok, fine. Please type /part
[05:26] <IdleOne> You are not allowed to idle here.
[05:27] <gartral> i havent been idleing! i was talking with you and maco!
[05:28] <gartral>  and /part doesnt work in irssi, you need /wc :P
[05:28] <gartral> anyway, have a good one
[05:32] <nhandler> IdleOne: A little patience doesn't hurt ;)
[05:32] <IdleOne> trust me. I was being patient
[05:33] <maco> nhandler: you missed yesterday
[05:33] <maco> that user comes in here to whine for long stretches about the -unregged policy
[05:33] <nhandler> maco: True, I wasn't around for him yesterday. I was only looking at this isolated incident
[05:34] <IdleOne> He was the victim of a dcc attack in #ubuntu.
[05:34] <IdleOne> it's somehow #ubuntu fault
[05:34] <maco> and since he doesnt have access to the router's firmware, clearly #ubuntu's policy should change to allow vulnerable systems
[05:35] <IdleOne> or rather the policy of not allowing compromised users in the channel is stupid
[05:35] <maco> i uh...smacked him with the irssi manpage
[05:36] <IdleOne> which he can't read and I am not sure how he is going to read the instructions on the link to autoghost.pl because his browsers are all broken
[05:37] <maco> i pasted the instructions from the page into his pm buffer
[05:37] <maco> he said he cant do the wget part of it
[05:37] <IdleOne> he needs to clean install and stop messing with his system
[05:37] <maco> his manpage excuse was that small hard drive = didnt install the manpage package... while the manpage isnt a separate package
[05:38] <IdleOne> seems more and more like a sophisticated troll
[05:38] <maco> what is up with all the trolls that know how to spell and use punctuation lately, by the way?
[05:39] <maco> my trolldar needs an upgrade :(
[05:39] <IdleOne> I think it has to do with the axis of the earth and alignment of the planets
[05:39] <maco> is it a full moon?
[05:40] <IdleOne> isn't it always on freenode
[05:40] <IdleOne> :)
[05:45] <Tm_T> no really
[06:49] <goddard> hello
[06:50] <goddard> For some stupid reason the ubuntu channel is saying there is a problem with my rotuer?
[06:51] <IdleOne> did you follow the instructions from #ubuntu-read-topic ?
[06:51] <goddard> what are you talking about?
[06:52] <goddard> Im not running any tests on my machine because I dont have a problem with my router
[06:52] <goddard> This is obviously an error
[06:52] <IdleOne> well you must have been victim to a dcc attack
[06:52] <IdleOne> that is why you are being sent there
[06:52] <goddard> ?
[06:52] <IdleOne> join #ubuntu-read-topic  and type test me
[06:53] <goddard> I'm cloaked
[06:53] <IdleOne> being cloaked has nothing to do with it
[06:53] <goddard> it was probably a vicious moderator
[06:53] <IdleOne> I doubt that. we don't ban for no reason
[06:54] <goddard> Then explain in technical terms why I was banned?
[06:55] <IdleOne> because you were probably in #ubuntu  at the time a dcc exploit was posted to the channel and that forced your client to quit and forcing the bot to set a ban on you
[06:55] <IdleOne> join #ubuntu-read-topic  and type test me
[06:55] <goddard> So how is this my problem?
[06:55] <goddard> Why are you making this my issue?
[06:55] <IdleOne> if there is no issue then the bot will let you back in
[06:56] <IdleOne> it is your issue because the exploit affects routers that are not properly configured
[06:56] <goddard> How is my router "not properly configured"
[06:56] <IdleOne> seriously dude, join the channel, follow the instructions. problem solved.
[06:57] <IdleOne> why cry about it for an hour in here, you could of been done by now and back in #ubuntu
[06:57] <goddard> Thats not how I handle things I'd like to understand not just blindly follow your instructions or "orders"
[06:57] <goddard> I'm not crying at all
[06:57] <goddard> I like to know
[06:58] <IdleOne> ok. well then don't go to the channel, don't read/follow the instructions.
[06:58] <goddard> Thats it? or have we reached the limit in your understanding of the process be honest
[06:58] <IdleOne> nothing we can do about it. oh yeah you could also change the port your client uses to connect to freenode
[06:58] <IdleOne> change it from 6667 to 8001
[06:59] <goddard> Is there some explination as to why I should do this?
[06:59] <IdleOne> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixDCCExploit will explain further
[07:07] <IdleOne> goddard: is there anything else I can try and help with?
[07:07] <goddard> This is a problem with NAT redirection?
[07:08] <IdleOne> Honestly, I don't know. I know that it is as simple as changing the port in your client
[07:09] <IdleOne> to resolve it
[07:09] <IdleOne> or updating the firmware on the router.
[07:09] <goddard> My router also has an option to filter nat redirection so I checked that box I also checked my firmware its up to date
[07:09] <goddard> and the page says version 5 and mine is a version 8
[07:10] <goddard> missing some parts or something
[07:10] <goddard> Can you attempt to send me a invalid dcc command and see if it still works?
[07:10] <IdleOne> no
[07:11] <IdleOne> you can test by joining #ubuntu-read-topic and type test me
[07:11] <goddard> That sends the invalid command then?
[07:11] <IdleOne> no
[07:11] <goddard> What does it do?
[07:12] <IdleOne> beats me.
[07:12] <goddard> Who made it?
[07:15] <goddard> https://launchpad.net/~myrtti this person?
[07:15] <goddard> oh its a girl
[07:15] <IdleOne> ?
[07:15] <IdleOne> and?
[07:16] <goddard> not many girls into computers why?
[07:16] <IdleOne> of course not
[07:16] <IdleOne> they are all to busy learning to cook and sew
[07:16] <IdleOne> good night
[07:16] <maco> because we get sick of dealing with people who say "woah its a girl!"
[07:16] <goddard> thank goodness
[07:16] <goddard> you cant be serious
[07:17] <IdleOne> goddard: you went from having some legitimate questions to a sexist troll
[07:17] <goddard> I knew you would play that card
[07:17] <IdleOne> you have the link, you know what channel to join to be tested.
[07:17] <goddard> Your the one that talked about cooking and sewing
[07:17] <goddard> not me
[07:17] <IdleOne> yup I am
[07:17] <goddard> so your the troll
[07:17] <IdleOne> yes
[07:17] <goddard> ok glad thats settled
[07:18] <IdleOne> I am the Ubuntu member, op troll
[07:18] <maco> goddard: IdleOne was being sarcastic because your "oh its a girl" response was so obviously sexist
[07:18] <IdleOne> that's me
[07:18] <goddard> maco so whats wrong with that?
[07:18] <maco> we don't like sexim?
[07:18] <maco> *sexism
[07:18] <goddard> huh?
[07:18] <goddard> what the hell is that?
[07:18] <maco> did you just ask what's wrong with sexism?
[07:18] <goddard> beating women? I dont do that
[07:19] <maco> there's a lot more to sexism than physical abuse...
[07:19] <goddard> I think its sexism
[07:19] <goddard> and no I dont
[07:19] <goddard> my women loves me as do most women I talk with
[07:19] <maco> "who wrote it? oh a girl" as if that explains everything... sexist
[07:19] <goddard> ??
[07:20] <goddard> I think you are being insecure or childish
[07:20] <goddard> it was simply surprising to see a women into computers unexpected and thats all the justification I will make
[07:20] <maco> no, i think you're completely oblivious to privilege
[07:20] <goddard> huh?
[07:20] <IdleOne> can someone please ask goddard to part this channel. he has the answers concerning -read-topic. Now he is just trolling
[07:21] <goddard> Thats the way you prove your points IdleOne?
[07:21] <maco> being surprised about women being good with computers is just as sexist as being surprised about men being good with kids
[07:21] <IdleOne> you proved it for me.
[07:21] <goddard> maco: you have some things to work out
[07:22] <maco> so, expressing such surprise was doing you no favours
[07:22] <goddard> ...
[07:22] <elky> goddard, you've been asked to leave, and you'll be leaving of your own choice or by my will. Which way do you choose?
[07:23] <goddard> elky: I have been disrespected
[07:23] <goddard> elky: I want an apology
[07:23] <goddard> apologize
[07:23] <IdleOne> who?
[07:24] <goddard> You and mac
[07:24] <goddard> o*
[07:24] <IdleOne> when were you disrespected?
[07:24] <elky> You're the one hunting out women on launchpad. I'd rather you repent for being creepy.
[07:24] <goddard> ?
[07:24] <maco> elky: ewww really?
[07:24] <elky> maco, well he was pasting myrtti's lp link
[07:24] <goddard> Now I want an apology from elky
[07:24] <maco> elky: oooh i see
[07:24] <IdleOne> when were you disrespected?
[07:26] <IdleOne> !appeals
 I am going to file a complaint
 you are free to do so.
 here is the link
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess
[07:27] <maco> why is it that when someone is called out for saying something sexist, they are suddenly the victim?
[07:28] <IdleOne> because then we are infringing on the perceived right to say whatever the hell they want?
[07:28] <IdleOne> they forget that this is IRC and not a democracy
[07:28] <elky> Yes, we and the rest of congress.
[07:36] <Cerebr0> Any ideas why I cannot join #ubuntu?
[07:41] <Cerebr0> Any ideas why i can not join #ubuntu?
[07:45] <jussi> Cerebr0: one moment
[07:46] <jussi> Cerebr0: what message does it give if you try to join?
[07:46] <Cerebr0> i dont get any message at all
[07:47] <Cerebr0> window just does not pop up
[07:47] <jussi> Cerebr0: which client are you using?
[07:47] <Cerebr0> i am using Empathy if that matters
[07:47] <jussi> Cerebr0: and do you have anything in your server window?
[07:48] <Cerebr0> You know I'm really new to this, what is the server window?
[07:48] <jussi> Cerebr0: you should have a window there somewhere which has all the info that freenode gave - the very first one to pop up
[07:50] <Cerebr0> I just have a contact list window (with no contacts) and this window that had 3 tabs, #freenode, #ubuntu-irc and #ubuntu-ops
[07:51] <Cerebr0> is there a different, better, client I should be using than Empathy
[07:51] <jussi> hrm, I really dont know empathy at all, so its hard to help there. you don't seem to have any matching bans as far as I can see, but I need to know if you have anything in your server window. could you perhaps try another client?
[07:51] <jussi> yes, xchat would be a large improvement
[07:52] <Cerebr0> ok i will try that
[07:52] <jussi> Cerebr0: if you still have trouble, please come back and ask
[07:52] <Cerebr0> thanks for being helpful :)
[07:52] <jussi> no probs!
[07:53] <jussi> glebihan: how can we help you today?
[07:54] <glebihan> jussi: thanks for asking, but not having any problem, was just following Cerebr0 as I tried to help him earlier
[07:55] <jussi> glebihan: ok, we have a no idle rule here, so see you next time :)
[07:56] <El> jussi are you there?
[07:56] <jussi> yes
[07:56] <El> this is Cerebr0
[07:56] <El> still can't join it for some reason
[07:57] <jussi> ok, so what does the server window in xchat say?
[07:57] <jussi> (first in the list)
[07:57] <El> says i need to +r be identified which i did
[07:58] <El> identify with services it says, since when have you had to do all the junk, i was able to get on no problem the last coulple of days
[07:59] <maco> since spam attacks
[07:59] <maco> !register > el
[07:59] <jussi> El: ahh, that explains it.
[07:59] <jussi> hrm, why are we +r atm anyway? did we have recent attacks?
[08:01] <maco> there were some earlier today
[08:02] <jussi> ElCerebr0: sorted now?
[08:02] <ElCerebr0> well im not sure why i couldnt get into it with my other nick i registered it but thanks for the help Jussi
[08:02] <ElCerebr0> yes it works now
[08:02] <jussi> ElCerebr0: you can be registered but not Identified
[08:02] <jussi> ;)
[08:03] <ElCerebr0> seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through
[08:03] <maco> ElCerebr0: in the network list in xchat go to edit the freenode network
[08:03] <maco> set the server password to match your registration password
[08:03] <maco> now itll be automatic
[08:03] <jussi> ElCerebr0: unfortunatley sometimes we have to, as there are people who abuse the system
[08:06] <jussi> ElCerebr0: All ok now?
[08:06] <ElCerebr0> oh sorry im good thanks
[08:42] <rww> IdleOne: As I understand it (which admittedly isn't very well), FloodBot's "test me" command does actually send a DCC exploit command.
[08:42] <rww> hence people disappearing off the server if they fail it ;)
[12:40] <bazhang> [ibizatryx] (~g@CPE-124-190-82-159.vic.bigpond.net.au  ugh in -unregged
[12:41] <bazhang> feel like banning before he gets to #ubuntu
[12:44] <Seeker`> who is it?
[12:44] <bazhang> check his realname
[12:45] <ikonia> idiot
[12:46] <bazhang> horrific
[12:49] <bazhang> troll ho
[12:49] <Seeker`> I'll /msg him
[12:51] <Seeker`> sent a /msg, no response as yet
[12:51] <bazhang> cant have good intent with a realname like that
[12:56] <bazhang> !hi
[12:56] <LjL> there is a problem in my opinion if people aren't allowed to use !hi in response to someone greeting the channel
[12:56] <LjL> i agree it's stupid to use it
[12:56] <LjL> but what *is* the sane use case for the factoid? if it's there, people will use it to greet, can't blame them for doing the obvious
[12:57] <Seeker`> what is the syntax for forgetting factoids again?
[12:57] <knome> works very well in xubuntu, where traffic is low
[12:57] <LjL> !forget blah
[12:57] <bazhang> hehe
[12:57] <LjL> knome: does it work much better than saying "hello foo!"
[12:57] <Seeker`> !forget hi
[12:58] <bazhang> he's back
[12:58] <knome> LjL, yes, because then the ppl are linked to guidelines and also told that they are free to ask questions, since many times the next question is "can i ask..." if you just "hey foo!"
[12:58] <Seeker`> !hi-#xubuntu is <reply> Hi!, Welcome to #xubuntu! Feel free to ask questions and help people out. The channel guidelines are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines. Enjoy your stay!
[12:59] <knome> Seeker`, thanks
[12:59] <bazhang> I'd argue that the realname is bad enough to take action
[12:59] <Seeker`> give him a minute to respond to my PM
[12:59] <bazhang> OK
[13:02] <Pici> uh
[13:02] <Seeker`> uh?
[13:06] <Pici> hi
[14:05] <Pici> ...
[14:06] <Pici> A lot of people use !hi, why did we remove it exactly?
[14:07] <bazhang> time to unforget it
[14:07] <Seeker`> Pici: because someone was doing it to everyone that said "hi" in #ubuntu
[14:07] <bazhang> :)
[14:07] <Pici> Seeker`: And did someone tell them to stop?
[14:07] <Seeker`> and 2 lines of text for everyone that joins is spammy
[14:07] <Seeker`> yes
[14:08] <Seeker`> but there is a valid point of "why is it there is we can't use it"
[14:09] <elky> swiftarrow, sorry but we had to remove the !hi factoid because it was being abused. We're not likely to put it back so soon.
[14:11] <bazhang> ibizatryx  seems to be just joining then timing out
[14:12] <Seeker`> set up a ban forward to ##fix_your_connection?
[14:13] <Seeker`> !forget hello
[14:21] <bazhang> ugh
[14:21] <Pici> Shes done this in the past for other issues.
[14:22] <Pici> foobart/blue_anna
[14:22] <bazhang> yeppers
[14:22] <bazhang> kind of grating
[14:22] <bazhang> why not just a straight ban on ibizatryx
[14:23] <Pici> Why?
[14:23] <bazhang> check the realname on him
[14:28] <Pici> bazhang: did I misuderstand what was going on with qwert/cwillu there in -ot?
[14:28] <bazhang> Pici, nope
[14:50] <swiftarrow> elky, aww, shucks.  Too bad people abuse things like that.
[14:51] <elky> yeah, it's too bad.
[15:17] <elky> swiftarrow, was there something else we could help you with? We have a no-idle policy here so we can keep track of who needs help, but there's logs if you're otherwise just curious.
[15:28] <jussi> hello DBO! long time no see.
[15:39] <swiftarrow> elky, no, not really!  first time I've come across a no-idle policy...  I'm actually afk.  But if you prefer, I'll just leave
[15:39] <popey> liamsmith smells like a troll
[15:47] <IdleOne> seriously? we removed the high factoid because someone was abusing it?
[15:47] <IdleOne> errr !hi
[15:47] <IdleOne> so if some gives everybody the !ati factoid we will just remove the factoid
[15:48] <IdleOne> the !hi factoid is very useful, if there was a user abusing it then that person should have been +q and talked to.
[15:49] <IdleOne> kids should'nt play near stoves either, lets just remove every stove/oven
[15:53] <IdleOne> and not to harp on the issue but if the factoid is useful in a low volume channel like xubuntu, stands to reason that the benefits far outweigh one annoying troll who was abusing the bot. Remove the trolls, not the help/helpers
[15:54] <charlie-tca> +1
[15:54] <knome> charlie-tca, !hi is enabled on #xubuntu anyway now, as i requested it
[15:54] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[15:54] <IdleOne> knome: and that is great :)
[15:55] <knome> IdleOne, yes. i can see why it's not working as it should @ #ubuntu though. maybe people should forward the factoid to PM anyway.
[15:55] <charlie-tca> We seem to want to bury ourselves in extra work, when the correct procedures work so well
[15:55] <IdleOne> the factoid was working just fine, every so often we get a jerk who likes to abuse a factoid.
[15:55] <IdleOne> wait I have an even better example
[15:56] <IdleOne> !ops is used by the spam bots. REMOVE IT QUICK
[15:57] <Seeker`> wow, overreaction or what
[15:57] <IdleOne> maybe
[15:58] <Seeker`> the argument present was basically "its not abusive to respond to people that say 'hi' with !hi, so if people can't use it why have it"
[15:58] <Seeker`> *presented
[15:59] <Seeker`> so it wouldn't be misusing the factoid to do it every time someone entered and says "hi"
[15:59] <IdleOne> people can and should be able to use it, just not on every single person who joins the channel. that was a case of bot abuse
[15:59] <Seeker`> but that does involve spamming channel with 3 lines
[16:00] <Seeker`> is there a technical need for !hi, like there is for !ops?
[16:00] <IdleOne> yes but the user triggering is the spammer not the factoid beinmg misused
[16:00] <IdleOne> being*
[16:00] <IdleOne> yes there is. it links to the guidelines
[16:00] <jpds> Blinken red lights.
[16:00] <Seeker`> but afaict, the factoid wasn't being misused or abused. I can't think of any better use cases than it was being used for
[16:00] <knome> could some factoids be forced to direct to PM?
[16:00] <Seeker`> so does !guidelines
[16:01] <Seeker`> if someone says hi, it isn't inappropriate to respond with "hi". How many "!hi"'s per hour can someone do before it is being abusive?
[16:01] <knome> of course "!hi" shouldn't say "Hi!" *everybody* in the channel, but would it make sense to require a 'recipient'?
[16:02] <Seeker`> knome: in the case earlier, it was being directed at people that said "hi"
[16:02] <IdleOne> when someone says hi it is not inappropriate to respond with !hi. it is when a user is triggering !hi to every user who joins before they say anything
[16:02] <knome> Seeker`, yes, but what if !hi was forced to *always* go to PM?
[16:03] <Seeker`> IdleOne: well, the case that caused me to remove it was only being directed at people that said "hi".
[16:03] <Seeker`> IdleOne: and it was often enough to cause (imo) significant spam in the channel
[16:03] <knome> Seeker`, i mean, having somebody respond to "hi" with "!hi" everytime is not really abusive, at least not as much as printing the factoid every time is
[16:03] <knome> Seeker`, even "!hi >nick" is not that abusive/spammy
[16:03] <Seeker`> knome: thats my point, it isn't abusing the bot, but it is causing spam in the channel
[16:04] <knome> Seeker`, yes, but forcing/limiting the output to PM would remove that spam
[16:04] <Seeker`> therefore, it is a fault with the factoid, not the user, as the user wasn't abusing the bot, so the factoid is too spammy, hence why I removed it
[16:04] <Seeker`> what tangible benifit does the factoid provide?
[16:04] <Seeker`> Just a link to the guidelines?
[16:05] <knome> Seeker`, yeah, and well, it's a warm welcome
[16:05] <Seeker`> knome: there is a link to the guidelines in the channel topic
[16:05] <Seeker`> which is presented to everyone when they enter the channel
[16:06] <Seeker`> people can provide warm welcomes without a factoid :)
[16:06] <knome> Seeker`, imo !hi is 1) a nice warm welcome, 2) !guidelines, and 3) !ask
[16:06] <knome> Seeker`, which is justifiable imo
[16:07] <Seeker`> is the "welcome to #ubuntu!" that the bot notices you when you join the channel not sufficiently welcoming? Do people require two seperate welcomes from the bot to feel adequately welcomed?
[16:08] <knome> Seeker`, kind of yes, but some people *do* ignore notices, for example because their IRC client present the notice in a different/non-active window (like irssi does)
[16:09] <knome> Seeker`, i mean. the ignoring might not be deliberate/intentional
[16:09] <knome> Seeker`, but that happens
[16:09] <IdleOne> imo the benefits of having the factoid still outweigh the occasional spammy nature of it when it is misused
[16:10] <ikonia> no one reads it
[16:10] <ikonia> human interaction is nicer than someone hitting them with a bot
[16:10] <Seeker`> what benefits? Respamming a link and a greeting that is presented in a notice and the channel topic?
[16:10] <jrib> well the !hi stuff is annoying when the channel is busy imo
[16:10] <IdleOne> ok.
[16:10] <ikonia> jrib: the annoying part of it is the useful stuff isn't read
[16:11] <knome> agreed with jrib, but that's why i wondered if the factoid could be forced to appear in PM's only
[16:11] <Seeker`> the point is, you can't reasonably ask users to stop doing !hi to everyone that says "hi" because it is an appropriate, valid use of the factoid, even if it is spamming the channel
[16:11] <ikonia> it contains some good information, but it's always followed by "I have Linux issues" which is they had read the URL in the !hi factoid they would know that's not how to ask
[16:11] <jrib> ikonia: right.  The people usually saying hi also proceed to ask vague questions on several lines.  Leading to more factoids being thrown at them and ignored
[16:11] <charlie-tca> hmm, I can't count the number of people thanked ubottu for welcoming them when presented with the factoid. It really does help
[16:12] <ikonia> if someone says "hi, welcome to the channel, keep in mind this channel's for ubuntu support only" it gets read more than !hi ; ubottu blah blah
[16:12] <ikonia> I don't know why, but it does seem to
[16:12] <jrib> !hi
[16:12] <ikonia> !offtopic
[16:12] <jrib> what did it used to say?
[16:12] <ikonia> (kidding)
[16:12] <Seeker`> !hi-#xubuntu
[16:12] <charlie-tca> I start with more than one channel open, but I do get a "Welcome to ..." in every channel
[16:12] <knome> charlie-tca, well, of course it would be nicer that it was a human who said hi and told all that, but isn't the bot because it is easier to call a factoid rather than write things again and again... :)
[16:13] <charlie-tca> That's what I am saying
[16:13] <knome> charlie-tca, exactly. the rest of the comment was also for others to consider :)
[16:15] <Seeker`> there isn't any new information provided by the factoid, and I think its silly to have a spammy factoid we can't reasonably ask people to stop using for the sake of a few people wanting to appear polite by sending a factoid when they can't be bothered to type the message themselves
[16:16] <jrib> yes, and you can always just create an alias in your client with that factoid.  It's more likely to be read that way anyway
[16:20] <ikonia> I don't care either way, there are only a few idiots that abuse it
[16:20] <knome> isn't abusing the bot against the guidelines anyway, so there's a reason to warn/kick/can those users?
[16:21] <charlie-tca> So, at what point do you simply kill all the factoids, because somebody abused them and you can type them anyway?
[16:21] <Seeker`> knome: is it an abuse of the bot to send "!hi" to every user that says "hi"?
[16:21] <Seeker`> If so, what proportion *can* you send it to?
[16:22] <knome> Seeker`, use common sense?
[16:22] <Seeker`> if it is as useful as is being claimed, it should be acively sent to every user that joins the channel. Or at least every user that says "hi".
[16:23] <Seeker`> so it is a valuable, useful factoid we absolutely must have, but absolutely must limit the number of people we send it to?
[16:23] <knome> Seeker`, former, of course not, latter, yes, that's pretty much what's done @ #xubuntu and it works there perfectly.
[16:23] <Seeker`> xubuntu is far lower traffic than ubuntu
[16:25] <knome> i understand, and again, that's why suggested that the !hi factoid reply should be stricly forced/limited to PM's
[16:25] <Seeker`> I don't think that people need the information presented to them in PM, channel topic and notice within 10 seconds
[16:26] <knome> in my experience, some people just do.
[16:26] <Seeker`> those people will probably need it explained 15 or 20 times though
[16:26] <knome> sure.
[16:26] <knome> :)
[16:26] <Seeker`> and aren't likely to respond well to bots
[16:27] <ikonia> just to put a little perspective on it, a few users we've actually had to ban from #ubuntu for refusing to stop using it
[16:27] <ikonia> they took the argument stance that using it to say "hi" is a legitamte use, so refused to stop
[16:27] <ikonia> while that's a very small minority it can be contensious
[16:28] <knome> well, if you remove the !hi factoid, i'm sure these banned users and their soul-mates figure out some other factoid to abuse
[16:28] <Seeker`> yes, but then it will be actually be abusing the bot
[16:28] <ikonia> from their point of you, they where not abusing it, that was the contensious point I was referencing
[16:28] <Seeker`> rather than using a factoid for its intended purpose
[16:29] <knome> Seeker`, i'm sure there are other factoids that can be used for their intended purpose, but still 'abused' the same way !hi is/was
[16:29] <knome> eg. !guidelines can easily become one of those
[16:30] <Seeker`> no, !guidelines is only used for reminding people about guidelines if they repeatedly abuse them
[16:30] <Seeker`> which is a significantly lower proportion of users than the ones that join the chanel and say "hi"
[16:30] <knome> yes, but you can start to nitpick
[16:30] <Seeker`> not really
[16:31] <knome> oh well, i disagree. ;)
[16:31] <Seeker`> if there are multiple, rapid uses of !guidelines within a short space of time, there is something going on
[16:32] <Seeker`> if a user is sending it to lots of people for silly reasons, they can be asked to stop because an op doesn't deem the notice as necessary
[16:32] <Seeker`> and they are the ones that enforce the guidelines
[16:32] <Seeker`> whereas !hi can result in high levels of spam if 10 users in a minute join and say "hi", and it isn't an incorrect use of the factoid
[16:33] <Seeker`> a situation where !guidelines is called lots it usually self-limiting, because it results in an !ops call sooner or later
[16:34] <jpds> ...
[16:34] <jpds> ..
[16:34] <jpds> .
[16:34] <jpds>  
[16:34] <jrib> .
[16:34] <jrib> ..
[16:34] <jrib> ...
[16:34] <knome> .
[16:34] <knome> ..
[16:34] <knome> ...
[16:34] <Pici> Can we try to avoid that here.
[16:34] <knome> Pici, i'm sure we can try.
[16:34] <Pici> Er, I mean using ! ops.  Many of us have the word itself on hilight.
[16:35] <marienz> yes, yes we do
[16:35] <knome> oh, right, so we're free to spam the channel as long as we don't use ¡spo
[16:35] <jrib> heh
[16:35] <jpds> Pici: My point exactly.
[16:35] <knome> sdo¡ actually
[16:35] <Pici> knome: Its setting off red emergency hilights for at least jpds and I.
[16:36] <knome> Pici, i'm sorry for the users that did use that :)
[16:37] <Seeker`> knome: long story short, I won't be readding the !hi factoid myself, and if you can show me any other factoids which are just as open to abuse as !hi and are equally useless/ spammy, I'll remove them too.
[16:37] <knome> Seeker`, if i come across those, i'll sure tell you. :)
[17:24] <Pici> Oh this is good, right at the top of that page is "This is a work in progress, it is not mature yet and it may break your system"
[17:25] <knome> heh
[17:58] <DBO> can you guys remove me from the !ops message in #ubuntu
[17:58] <DBO> I cant do much when you get spammed in there now days
[17:58] <niko> DBO: it's called spam
[17:59] <DBO> oh you're right its not coming from ubot2
[17:59] <DBO> my bad
[17:59] <Pici> You're still on the #ubuntu access list anyway.
[17:59] <jpds> Haha, ubottu DDoS.
[17:59] <DBO> Pici, I dont think I am
[18:00] <Pici> DBO: I just checked.
[18:00] <DBO> oh
[18:00] <DBO> I guess I am
[18:45] <jussi> err, DBO should have been removed a long time ago iirc
[18:45] <DBO> probably
[18:45] <jussi> DBO: you didnt renew on LP, did you?
[18:45] <DBO> no
[18:45] <jussi> ok, Ill remove you from both lists
[18:46] <DBO> I got hired by Canonical and have not really had time to help
[18:46] <DBO> it was unfair to keep on
[18:49] <jussi> DBO, sorted now.
[18:49] <DBO> jussi, thank you
[18:50] <jussi> DBO: you are most welcome :)
[18:50] <DBO> jussi, who tends to be in charge around here these days? :)
[18:50] <DBO> when I left it was Seveas handing over the reigns to LjL
[18:50] <Pici> The IRC Council.
[18:50] <jussi> DBO: myself, Pici topyli nhandler and tsimpson make up the irc council
[18:50] <Pici> gj
[18:51] <jussi> just keeping you all awake :D
[18:51] <Pici> Okay :P
[18:51] <jussi> besides, topyli is here beside me :D
[18:58] <Tm_T> jussi: give hjim a hug
[18:59] <jussi> Ijust did
[18:59] <maco> are you irc'ing from the sauna?
[19:01] <Pici> you hugged him in the sauna?
[19:02] <Tm_T> maco: sauna is sacred place, no gadgets there
[19:03] <jussi> no
[19:03] <jussi> no sauna irc
[19:03] <jussi> but we did visit the sauna
[19:04] <jussi> and no sauna hugs either
[19:04] <topyli> hug confirmed!
[20:20] <|EOF|> i have come to the conclusion that the ops in #ubuntu-ops use excessive force
[20:22] <|EOF|> and by tight ship they are talking about their anuses
[20:22] <Tm_T> pardon?
[20:28] <Tm_T> |EOF|: something particular we can help you with?
[20:28] <|EOF|> yeah, which one of you is garry newman?
[20:29] <|EOF|> i'm from the FBI's EOF unit
[20:30] <IdleOne> and you need us to tell you who garry newman is?
[20:30] <|EOF|> yes, he has been running for some time
[20:30] <|EOF|> that may not even be his real name
[20:30] <IdleOne> So naturally you firgured the Ubuntu ops team would be the people to ask.
[20:31] <|EOF|> yes, i heard from a source he would be in here
[20:31] <IdleOne> |EOF|: Do you need help with anything #ubuntu ban/kick related?
[20:31] <Tm_T> |EOF|: unfortunately this channel is not for such requests
[20:33] <|EOF|> never mind "homies"
[20:33] <|EOF|> cyall
[20:34] <charlie-tca> Hmm, and I thought the government would something besides a browser to access irc ;-)
[20:35] <Pici> A browser from an IP in Toronto too
[20:36] <IdleOne> haha
[20:36] <Tm_T> well, polite attitude always works
[20:36] <Tm_T> so whoever he was looking for is now save
[20:37] <IdleOne> He wasn't looking for anyone.
[20:37] <Tm_T> what, it wasn't FBI?!
[20:38] <IdleOne> except for someone to indulge him in his sad attempt to troll and waste someones time
[20:38]  * Tm_T hides
[20:38] <IdleOne> A more aggressive policy towards trolls is needed in my opinion.
[20:39] <Tm_T> IdleOne: even if less aggressive approach might keep them better away?
[20:40] <Tm_T> as in, not giving them what they're after?
[20:40] <IdleOne> what is it you think they are after?
[20:40] <charlie-tca> someone to argue with, many times
[20:40] <Tm_T> trying to get us to react
[20:41] <IdleOne> ok. so if the reaction is a ban they can't return to try again
[20:41] <Tm_T> IdleOne: I rather have them staying away on their own
[20:41] <IdleOne> time is saved by not having to deal with these idiots.
[20:42] <Tm_T> IdleOne: I had no issue to deal with this case
[20:42] <IdleOne> This time.
[20:42] <IdleOne> this was a recon troll
[20:42] <Pici> Was this person in #ubuntu?
[20:42] <Tm_T> Pici: not that I know
[20:42] <Pici> IdleOne: Or are you talking about our response in -ops?
[20:42] <IdleOne> response in here
[20:43] <Tm_T> IdleOne: I often deal with the most difficult cases, I dare to say
[20:48] <Tm_T> IdleOne: also I believe one can be strict AND polite (:)
[20:48] <IdleOne> true
[20:49] <Tm_T> not saying it would be easy, but...
[21:55] <niko> why not change !ops trigger in ubottu to do nothing if there is more than x nicks in the string received ?
[22:08] <IdleOne> +r set
[23:49] <ikonia> please keep an eye on oracle
[23:49] <knome> what about sun?
[23:49]  * knome hides