[02:24] <Pendulum> TheMuso: would you or do you know anyone who might be able to do a talk on how developers can make applications accessible?
[02:25] <maco> i would like to learn such info
[02:25] <Pendulum> (for one of the classroom weeks)
[02:25] <maco> all i got right now is "avoid webkit & flash"
[02:25] <Pendulum> maco: and for anything on the web javascript ;-)
[02:25] <maco> apparently no!
[02:25] <Pendulum> maco: oh?
[02:26] <maco> a blind guy in #diaspora informed me there ARE ways to do AJAX such that screenreaders can handle them decently
[02:26] <Pendulum> cool
[02:26] <TheMuso> Pendulum: I know of people who could give guidelines, but not a talk.
[02:26] <maco> he's on the ubuntu-a11y mailing list, but i forget his name...
[02:26] <maco> TheMuso: there was a "wait are we talking about the same luke?" moment in that conversation ;-)
[02:27] <maco> Pendulum: http://accessibleajax.clcworld.net/
[02:27] <maco> though knowing TheMuso's workflow for screenreader, i'm still inclined to avoid it
[02:27] <Pendulum> TheMuso: by the way, I did not get UDS sponsorship so can't go. Are you okay with Charlie & Nigel running a more community/outreach session on accessibility? (as I assume you're running a devel one)
[02:27] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Sure.
[02:28] <TheMuso> I am not sure if there will be adevel session for accessibility as such, but their might be, given that there is a good chance I will be working on making unity more accessible for Natty.
[02:28] <Pendulum> TheMuso: awesome
[02:29] <charlie-tca> As long we are gathered here, anyone got ideas on the accessibility session for Ubuntu Open Week?
[02:29] <charlie-tca> users week, ?
[02:29] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: feel free to look at the logs from my User Day talk
[02:29] <charlie-tca> Okay
[02:29] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: open week :)
[02:30] <Pendulum> TheMuso: also, jono has suggested I post to the ubuntu-devel mailing list to get input on how to get developers more aware/involved in accessibility stuff. Do you have any advice about that?
[02:30] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Not really.
[02:31] <Pendulum> okay
[02:31] <Pendulum> I thought I'd ask in case you had any magic words of wisdom ;-)
[02:32] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: I been waiting 6 months for words of wisdom from Xubuntu devs, it doesn't seem to be coming either.
[02:36] <TheMuso> Re ajax, it depends on how well the browser accessibility -> screen reader communication is integrated.
[02:43] <Pendulum> *nods*
[17:35] <AlanBell> hi all
[17:36] <AlanBell> could someone take a look at a website for me from a low vision/screenreader point of view
[17:36] <AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/09/29/announcing-the-new-ubuntu-uk-org/
[17:36] <AlanBell> and http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org
[17:38] <charlie-tca> something on the beta site makes the text blur a bit. It might be the grey color of the text combined with the image on the page.
[17:39] <charlie-tca> The footer text is very difficult to see
[17:39] <AlanBell> ah yes, not sure what, if anything is going in the footer, but yes I see the grey on grey
[17:40] <charlie-tca> Well, the first site, I guess
[17:40] <charlie-tca> The http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org , the third paragraph seems to be the easiest to read
[17:40] <AlanBell> ok, interesting
[17:41] <AlanBell> that should be showing up in the new ubuntu font if you have that installed
[17:41] <AlanBell> except for the third paragraph which is monospaced
[17:41] <charlie-tca> I don't understand it, but the letters are very easy to distinguish compared to the other paragraphs
[17:41] <AlanBell> it is just nonsense
[17:43] <charlie-tca> I am not sure what is making http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/09/29/announcing-the-new-ubuntu-uk-org/ text difficult to focus. It might be the contrast?
[17:43] <AlanBell> at the moment the text is a dark grey, I will make it a bit closer to black
[17:44] <AlanBell> do you have the new ubuntu font installed?
[17:44] <charlie-tca> I still have the beta font
[17:44] <AlanBell> yeah, that should be fine
[17:46] <charlie-tca> I just have to really work to focus the text there
[17:46] <charlie-tca> hmm, and I didn't think I had issues with this stuff?
[17:48] <charlie-tca> I changed to high contrast svg icon set last night. WOW! I can see the icons again
[17:49] <AlanBell> can you try again now
[17:51] <charlie-tca> That helps a lot
[17:51] <AlanBell> great
[17:52] <charlie-tca> I can focus all of the text easier now
[17:52] <AlanBell> for reference the text was #444 now it is black
[17:53] <AlanBell> I also made the italics in the blockquote bit bigger as I think italics tend to get harder to read when smaller
[17:53] <charlie-tca> I think my eyes carry some of the image blur to the text. If I scroll the page down to get rid of the image, I can see it better
[17:53] <AlanBell> and I have made all the body content text 10% larger
[17:54] <charlie-tca> Italics are always an issue. I am pretty sure they shrink the text for it purposely. 
[17:54] <AlanBell> that is interesting, so the drop shadow/blur thing on the image is disruptive for you
[17:54] <charlie-tca> Yeah, kind of crazy. My mind doesn't accept these things could be an issue, but my eyes are weird, sometimes
[17:55] <AlanBell> hmm, issue unique to you?
[17:56] <charlie-tca> I don't really know. It would be good to get some more opinions, though
[17:56] <AlanBell> will do. I haven't shown that dropshadow thing to anyone yet, not sure if anyone will like it yet!
[17:58] <AlanBell> I have been quite carefull about allowing the text to be scaled really big or small without breaking the layout
[17:58] <charlie-tca> My eyes do stupid things. I used to be able to print everything in 6pt to save space. Now, some days, 14pt is too hard to read
[17:58] <charlie-tca> I think your layout looks good. I even like the image in there!
[17:59] <AlanBell> it was originally designed by the web team as a fixed width layout, I made it fluid
[17:59] <AlanBell> designers seem to have some crazy obsession with 960px fixed width layouts
[18:01] <charlie-tca> heh
[18:01] <charlie-tca> Goes back to 1024 x 768 monitors, doesn't it?
[18:02] <charlie-tca> Some of the wide screen monitors, the page is way too wide to read easily
[18:03] <AlanBell> there is this http://960.gs site which has a graphic designer fanbase
[18:23] <JanC> on a 1920x1080 display with 9pt fonts you don't want text the width of your screen, but nobody forces you to have your browser window that wide of course...
[18:24] <charlie-tca> yup
[18:24] <charlie-tca> apparently, I keep my browser just wide enough to display a 1024 wide page
[18:24] <JanC> and having such a wide screen allows you to use things like the Tree Style Tab plugin, which is just awesome  ;)
[18:25] <JanC> especially if you often have 100+ tabs open
[18:26] <charlie-tca> I could see that. I don't usually open more than 20 or thirty, myself
[18:26] <JanC> it might still be useful, as it allows to order tabs in meaningful groups etc.
[20:04] <AlanBell> JanC: actually I have a 2048x1152 monitor and I often do read things full width
[20:05] <JanC> depends on what DPI & font size you use
[20:05] <JanC> but 300 characters on a line doesn't improve reading  ;)
[20:05] <AlanBell> yeah, depends, I like things that are good at zooming in and out